So my nice machine failed, dvd drive no longer works after leaving it recording for 8 hrs. :(

I have a bunch of not finalized -R's which an open box DMR-EH50 is successfully finalizing but...

not finalized +R's are not being recognized

1. Any options on reading/finalizing these disks?

2. Is there some software for PC that will read these disks?

3. If I send the DMR-ES35V in for repair will it still read the not finalized +R's after it is repaired?

4. Now here's a long shot... Any possibility of swapping the burner from the EH-50 into the ES35V?

Please Please Help!

(I may offer the DMR-EH50 up for sale/trade to resolve my problem)

So my nice machine failed, dvd drive no longer works after leaving it recording for 8 hrs. :(

I have a bunch of not finalized -R's which an open box DMR-EH50 is successfully finalizing but...

not finalized +R's are not being recognized

1. Any options on reading/finalizing these disks?

2. Is there some software for PC that will read these disks?

3. If I send the DMR-ES35V in for repair will it still read the not finalized +R's after it is repaired?

4. Now here's a long shot... Any possibility of swapping the burner from the EH-50 into the ES35V?

Please Please Help!

(I may offer the DMR-EH50 up for sale/trade to resolve my problem)

Intermittent read, write and finalizing failures are common indicators that the DVD Drive's rubber hub atop the spindle (turntable) is dirty or has oily residue. With a DMR-ES35V the cleaning procedure takes perhaps fifteen minutes using isopropyl rubbing alcohol and a cotton swab. The lens may cleaned at the same time. Be gentle with the lens as its suspension mechanism is easily damaged. I clean my Panasonics at eight to ten month intervals, more frequently with heavy use. Warm, dusty or smoking environments require more frequent cleaning. Handling discs with a finger through the center hole also transfers oily residue to the hub area.

Information concerning the lens and rubber hub cleaning procedures, including photos, is found in this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14479898#post14479898

It is very important to follow the instructions and heed the cautions.

So my nice machine failed, dvd drive no longer works after leaving it recording for 8 hrs. :(

I have a bunch of not finalized -R's which an open box DMR-EH50 is successfully finalizing but...

not finalized +R's are not being recognized

3. If I send the DMR-ES35V in for repair will it still read the not finalized +R's after it is repaired?

Yes, repairing/replacing a drive that reads-writes +R discs will finalize any of the +Rs recorded beforehand.

Any other Panasonic recorder that accepts the +R disc format will finalize discs made on another Panny machine.

If the lens and rubber hub cleaning does not resolve the problems with your DMR-ES35V see this post for additional information and advice:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16583887#post16583887

First, thanks for the replies, but I'm afraid dirty hub rubber or lens is probably not the problem, it makes odd noises I describe below...I will still open her up and have a look and clean.

When I power on the machine the dvd drive makes an odd noise, four short, "errp" like sounds, followed by one at a lower pitch, it cycles this pattern a couple of times.
This is with or without a disk in the drive, and after powered on, when I open and close the drive.

Any other Panasonic recorder that accepts the +R disc format will finalize discs made on another Panny machine.

If this is so... why won't the EH-50 recognize the +R's?
The info on the machine states it will, these disks are not re-writable types, they are labeled as DVD +R (Fuji, Verbatim).

However there is a "RW" on them.
What is this RW refering to as they are not re-writable disks?
Perhaps this is the problem?

I forgot to add there are no error codes being displayed, where should they be displayed?

The info on the machine states it will, these disks are not re-writable types, they are labeled as DVD +R (Fuji, Verbatim).

However there is a "RW" on them.
What is this RW refering to as they are not re-writable disks?
Perhaps this is the problem?
Philips introduced RW discs first and that "logo" stuck for +R developed later. could be cuz, in Philips +VR systems, you can overwrite all or a portion of titles on an unfinalized +R and -R disc, sort of a "pseudo-rewriteable"?

If this is so... why won't the EH-50 recognize the +R's?
The info on the machine states it will, these disks are not re-writable types, they are labeled as DVD +R (Fuji, Verbatim).

However there is a "RW" on them.
What is this RW refering to as they are not re-writable disks?
Perhaps this is the problem?

DVD+RW are indeed, re-writable discs, that can be recorded to, finalized for watching on other dvd players, then erased to make additional recordings on. If the EH50 isn't compatible with +RWs, then that is the reason it won't read them.

EDITED TO ADD-Ok, you're talking about the RW logo that's underneath the DVD+R on the disc' top, are you? If DVD-RW is on the package label, then they are re-writable discs. If not then they are plain DVD+Rs.

Philips introduced RW discs first and that "logo" stuck for +R developed later. could be cuz, in Philips +VR systems, you can overwrite all or a portion of titles on an unfinalized +R and -R disc, sort of a "pseudo-rewriteable"?

hmm, Phillips +VR systems, I'll have to look into (search) that, I wonder if those systems would read my disks?

No luck on a quick google search, any links?

DVD+RW are indeed, re-writable discs, that can be recorded to, finalized for watching on other dvd players, then erased to make additional recordings on. If the EH50 isn't compatible with +RWs, then that is the reason it won't read them.

The EH50 isn't +RW re-writeable compatable (it actually states "playback only"), but these disks are "DVD+R" with the "RW" logo, not "DVD+RW".

EDITED TO ADD-Ok, you're talking about the RW logo that's underneath the DVD+R on the disc' top, are you? ....... then they are plain DVD+Rs.
Yes, that is correct.

Then perhaps the discs are bad. I bought a 100 pack spindle of +R Verbatims back in December, and a few turn up being able to record to, but won't finalize.

Don't think the disks are bad, I was watching them on the ES35 before it failed.
I actually recorded a couple spindles or so of the Fuji +R's without a single problem.
(not all of them are not finalized though, thank god, lol)

First, thanks for the replies, but I'm afraid dirty hub rubber or lens is probably not the problem, it makes odd noises I describe below...I will still open her up and have a look and clean.

When I power on the machine the dvd drive makes an odd noise, four short, "errp" like sounds, followed by one at a lower pitch, it cycles this pattern a couple of times.
This is with or without a disk in the drive, and after powered on, when I open and close the drive.

If this is so... why won't the EH-50 recognize the +R's?
The info on the machine states it will, these disks are not re-writable types, they are labeled as DVD +R (Fuji, Verbatim).

However there is a "RW" on them.
What is this RW refering to as they are not re-writable disks?
Perhaps this is the problem?

What you're hearing as an "errp" is what I describe as "clunking" or "chugging" in my above linked "additional information" post.

These noises indicate that the DMR-ES35V is unable to read a disc in the DVD Drive (an U88 error) or is unable to determine that there is no disc in the DVD Drive (an U61 error).

Lens cleaning might remedy these problems if the lens is dirty. Clean the rubber hub as well. There is a strong possibility that the laser assembly has failed, especially if the DMR-ES35V has been closed up in a cabinet with other heat-producing equipment.

For information concerning the $130 flat-rate repair through the Panasonic Digital Service Center in Elk Grove Village Illinois see this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14451738#post14451738

If the "DVD+R" discs have a "RW" anywhere on them they are, in fact, DVD+RW discs. I've seen older HP discs that were similarly identified as "DVD+R" but had a small "RW" elsewhere on the disc. Those HP discs were, in fact, DVD+RW discs.

The DMR-EH50 is a 2005 model. The DMR-EH50 Operating Instructions indicate (on pages 8-9) that one may record and play DVD+R discs but DVD+RW discs may only be played. If you manage to coax your DMR-EH50 to record to or finalize these RW discs you may hear a loud squeal. Laser failure may follow! Laser failure may require replacing the laser assembly (a procedure not officially approved by Panasonic) or replacing of the DVD Drive itself (see the $130 flat-rate repair advice linked above). Use a 2006 or newer Panasonic to finalize the discs.

As most Panasonic owners report, Panasonic DVD recorders, especially vintage models, are not particularly friendly toward "+" media.

During early use of my first Panasonic 2005 DMR-ES30V I tried a spindle of DVD+R discs. I soon learned my lesson, then I switched back to DVD-R discs. To this day I do not use any type of "+" media in my Panasonics. I write from experience; I own three 2005 models, nine 2006 models, four 2007 models, one 2008 model plus several 2006 models for use as "parts machines." Six of my Panasonics have accumulated between 3,000 and 4,400 recording hours per machine. Several others have accumulated an average of between 1,000 and 1,400 recording hours per machine. Others have accumulated an average of 200 to 800 recording hours per machine.

OK, so I have a friend with the same ES35V I'll be visiting next week, I'll confirm whether the disks are bad at that time, and post the results.

...When I power on the machine the dvd drive makes an odd noise, four short, "errp" like sounds, followed by one at a lower pitch, it cycles this pattern a couple of times.
This is with or without a disk in the drive, and after powered on, when I open and close the drive.

Your description is exactly what my EH55 was doing six months ago. I sent it into Elk Grove, or wherever the Panasonicv repair center is, and two weeks and $130 later I got back a unit with a new drive and control board. It now works like new. No amount of spidle cleaning will work in your case. If you like the machine and want to keep it, ship it off for repair. The Panasonic $130 flat rate DVD recorder repair is one of the the best things about Panasonic machines. If your machine is stil under warranty, I woul dstill send it to them with purchase documentation. DON'T TAKE IT TO A LOCAL SHOP!

hmm, Phillips +VR systems, I'll have to look into (search) that, I wonder if those systems would read my disks?

No luck on a quick google search, any links?
You can click #1 in my sig. for info on +VR units, but discs from Panasonic or Pioneer are not normally finalizeable in a +VR recorder... at least not in my Pio 640. Once Finalized, they do play OK but other disc ops are very limited, as described in this help file under "Option 2." (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12298483&postcount=18#RecDVD5)

If the "DVD+R" discs have a "RW" anywhere on them they are, in fact, DVD+RW discs. I've seen older HP discs that were similarly identified as "DVD+R" but had a small "RW" elsewhere on the disc. Those HP discs were, in fact, DVD+RW discs.

Very strange, at any rate it would seem that must be the explanation...
That being the case I should be able to re-write these disks finalized or not?

I have un-opened and opened spindles of all types -R +R -RW +RW
Philips, Fuji, Verbatim, HP, the disks would fall under the category of +R not re-writable by the packaging but regardless it would seem that what you say must be the explanation.

And +R's won't be going into these machines again!
I'll have to call Elk Grove and see what they say, I am in Canada.

Thanks for all your replies folks!

p.s.
One slightly used EH50 probably coming up for sale at some point, depending on repairability of ES35V from Elk Grove... :)

I've seen several +R discs that also have the RW designation on them which are not RW discs but are just +R discs. I don't know why they do this, it's rather confusing, but on the outside of the spindles it only says +R not +RW. The discs I have are Philips brand and on the actual disc it says +R and on another area on the disc it says RW, IOW nowhere does it say +RW where the + and RW are together.

The EH-50 should finalize +R discs but '05(model year of your EH-50) was the first year Panasonic even supported the +R format so it's possible it may only finalize discs actually recorded on it. As others have said Panasonic is more native to the - format, especially the older('05, '06) models.
I don't think?? Panasonic will ship to Canada but please post back and let us know. They may just refer you to Panasonic Canada which may or may not have the $130 deal.

discs from Panasonic or Pioneer are not normally finalizeable in a +VR recorder...

Yes, this is one of those arcane little recorder differences that mean nothing until the ONE time you need them to work in your favor, only to find they don't. VR is a confusing term because it applies to two generations of recorder in different ways. "Old school" designs like the Panasonics and Pioneers, which have always been made by their original mfrs and not farmed out, cannot finalize each others discs. Their version of "VR" simply means they can format certain discs (usually DVD-R and DVD-RW) to be more editable than the normal DVD-R spec. This proprietary VR disc format does not play on anything but the recorder that burned it and can't be finalized for playback on regular DVD hardware. "New school" recorders (especially those machines made by Funai for Magnavox, Sylvania, Phillips, Toshiba, etc) use an interchangeable form of VR which can be read and finalized by any newer recorder that understands it. Because Funai now controls more than 50% of the recorder market, +VR has rapidly become a new standard. I'm not sure but it might also be used by LG/JVC, Samsung and possibly Sony in their latest models.

Unfinalized Panasonic or Pioneer discs need the same brand machine to play or finalize them. Ditto the 2006 and earlier Toshibas and other brands that were still independent. JVCs made before 2006 can exchange unfinalized discs with all Panasonics (they shared some software routines). The moral being, don't let unfinalized discs sit around for months or years: if your recorder brand starts sourcing their machines from another company, you'll be stuck. Finalize those DVDs while you can, kids!:eek: Otherwise you'll have your work cut out for you on the PC.

Here is what my Verbatim +Rs look like. This is a quick retouch I just made, not an actual photo of the real disc.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c240/kbar/1439-2.jpg
The RW logo appears under the DVD+R header on each disc.

Because Funai now controls more than 50% of the recorder market, +VR has rapidly become a new standard. I'm not sure but it might also be used by LG/JVC, Samsung and possibly Sony in their latest models.

Unfinalized Panasonic or Pioneer discs need the same brand machine to play or finalize them. Ditto the 2006 and earlier Toshibas and other brands that were still independent. JVCs made before 2006 can exchange unfinalized discs with all Panasonics (they shared some software routines).
I doubt that JVC would use the Philips +VR std since Panasonic/Matushita has owned and/or controlled JVC since 1953... until Oct 2008 when they spun it off and merged it with Kenwood Electronics? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JVC)

Also might explain why Panasonic discs can be finalized in some JVC machines, as discussed in VideoHelp.com with some mild "wonderment?"

I doubt that JVC would use the Philips +VR std since Panasonic/Matushita has owned and/or controlled JVC since 1953...

Aw, gee, wajo, I did say I wasn't sure!:D Panasonic and JVC had "the marriage from hell" for decades, with legendary (to the Japanese) internal squabbles between them. They can and do travel completely different paths from each other when it suits them. Witness their current DVD recorders: Panasonic still makes its own "the old fashioned way", while JVC washed their hands of a dead market and threw the ball to LG. Its not that much of a stretch to think if Panasonic cared so little about JVCs affinities it let them outsource to LG, that they would care if LG was using Phillips +VR format in their OEM JVC recorders. It would be interesting to know: one day we should try and gather all the disc compatibility data from all the members who own more than one recorder brand and cross-reference. ('Course we'll never do it, too big a project, but it would be useful info to have in a table). Maybe we can bribe jjeff to take a shot at it?;)

Ok, so I wish I had tried this earlier,

I just put in a blank Fuji +R (it has the RW logo on it matching the logo Westly-C's retouched pic) and the EH50 recognizes it as +R, ready to go.

All my +R's have the logo btw, and none of the unfinalized are being recognized so far: "Incompatible disk" message at function screen.
Tried one Maxell too. (I gave up on those long ago, too many failures)

I also have Imations around here somewhere, I'll try each brand at some point this weekend, I hope, and post just for reference.

Finalize those DVDs while you can, kids! Otherwise you'll have your work cut out for you on the PC.
yessiree!

So, in case all else fails, I should be able to read these disks on my PC?
I tried once a while back and didn't work. This was using a NEC ND_3550A with original single layer firmware. (I believe they can be upgraded to dual layer)
EDIT: all disks are single layer
Is there some software I can try for this?

I'll try calling Elk Grove Monday (work allowing) and let you all know what they say. I should ask about a firmware upgrade for the EH50 too.

-Also just found a refurb ES16 2007 for $80 Canadian, maybe my best option I suppose, then again the ES35V makes such excellent VHS recordings....and I can get TDK SuperVHS tapes for $5... hmmm, I say, only partially tongue in cheek :)

Oh yes, the ES35V has not been in a cabinet, but on a shelf with a Motorola tuner ( the case of which is so full of ventillation slots Swiss cheese would go green with envy) 2.5" above it, supported by rubber "pucks", with vertical air flow behind. And power coming from a TrippLite UPS.
Oh well.

-Also just found a refurb ES16 2007 for $80 Canadian, maybe my best option I suppose, then again the ES35V makes such excellent VHS recordings....and I can get TDK SuperVHS tapes for $5... hmmm, I say, only partially tongue in cheek :)

The ES-16 is a decent machine, basically identical to a US '06 ES-15 or like your ES-35v without the VHS. It should finalize your +R discs no problem.

I'll try calling Elk Grove Monday (work allowing) and let you all know what they say. I should ask about a firmware upgrade for the EH50 too.

-Also just found a refurb ES16 2007 for $80 Canadian, maybe my best option I suppose, then again the ES35V makes such excellent VHS recordings....and I can get TDK SuperVHS tapes for $5... hmmm, I say, only partially tongue in cheek :)

DMR-EH50S firmware and installation instructions may be downloaded here:

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/support/Video/DVD-Recorders-Players/DVD-Recorders/Drivers-Downloads/model.DMR-EH50S.D#ts

This firmware update is found on the Panasonic USA website. I did not find a firmware update for this model on the Panasonic Canada website.

The DMR-ES16 Operating Instructions may be downloaded here:

http://www.panasonic.ca/english/customercare/operatinginstructions/query.asp

The DMR-ES16 is very much like the USA DMR-ES15. The ES16 has the capability to play CD-R/CD-RW discs which contain DivX video contents; the ES15 does not. The DMR-ES15 lacks a cooling fan.

So, in case all else fails, I should be able to read these disks on my PC?I tried once a while back and didn't work.

You can't really use them directly on a PC as DVDs, but software like ISObuster can "see" the videos on unfinalized discs and rip them to your hard drive as standard DVD files. Then you just copy them to a new DVD and finalize using whatever DVD burning software you have on your computer. Tedious, but it works.

The ES-16 is a decent machine, basically identical to a US '06 ES-15 or like your ES-35v without the VHS. It should finalize your +R discs no problem.

yep,so I bought the wrong machine. Part of the appeal of the EH was the 100g? drive, with a proprietary interface I'm geussing, but apparently there's an issue regarding tvguide dependent scheduling, I haven't quite checked that out yet but I think that's the csae, so... comes with receipt and one year Panasonic warranty! :o

...and no point in my posting again about the other brands as brand isn't the problem anyway

DigiDo and Citibear thank you too!

If I try the 50S firmware, is there a possiblity to save the current set?
and what is the procedure, I've not done this on a set top box

geuss I found it here: http://www.panasonic.ca/english/customercare/sandd/softwareResults.asp

*Improve performance for DVD-RW/ -R/ +R.

Improvement of perfofmance for DVD-R/+R and DVD-RW.
Countermeasure for that data was rarely recorded on wrong position when AV Stream is recorded on HDD which has much fragmentation and is recorded almost fully.

I'm glad to see that they have almost got their English rightly. :)

I think all is done now, and maybe the frimware is worth a try unless there's a possibility of it being of inappropriate model...

Can it be confirmed that the EH50S is the same ("S" denoting what?)
as the EH50, so that I may go ahead and flash the firmware?

I've been searching at Panasonic and the web but can't find anything.

The new firmware indicates it may resolve my finalizing problem, and it also seems that I can manually schedule recordings without being dependent on tvguide so if this works it will be the end of my troubles.

(DRM differences between US and Canada firmware notwithstanding, probably the same firmware anyway)

Can it be confirmed that the EH50S is the same ("S" denoting what?)

Often the last letter in Panasonic model names indicates the case color, S=silver and K=black.

You may want to ask Panasonic Canada Customer Service if the US EH50 firmware is compatible with your EH50 purchased in Canada. But I would guess that their informed advice would be "Hmm, could be" or "what's an EH50, Eh?"

"what's an EH50, Eh?"
lol thanks digado
When I get it all worked out (hopefully) I'll post results