Ever since Sony came out with Blu-ray, all I see is people spouting "progressive FTW!" I'm getting so damn sick of it! The moment you mention no movies are 1080p60 and you must do like 1080p48/72/96 or 1080i96 is just as good, many times better than a digital. Especially comparing to 1080p60, the PS3 digital cultists are ready to tie you up and burn you at the stake!

Then there's all the lies about interlaced is the root of all evil. There's no way to make interlace not flicker. You explain not all CRTs use the same phosphor, like my Dwin with P16. They call you a liar and you're an idiot. Even when you show them what interlaced properly done. The picture looks good and they will still accuse you of lying and not doing "real interlace." I had a friend come over to look at my projector and when he didn't see all the bad flicker, moire, combing, etc, he actually said I wasn't really doing interlace!

Wtf? What is wrong with people? I can't believe how stupid people are. They believe Sony's 1080p hype, and everything else is garbage. The reason DVD is "bad" is because you need the progressive magical cure.

.........

That's all I can say to that. "......" Anyone here dealt with that? It's even here on AVS. Especially on the Blu-ray forum. "Progressive FTW. Interlace be gone Satan!" It seems we're the only ones here who know the truth that interlaced isn't half as bad it's made out to be. Except Mike Parker :P I kid MP!

Well, I don't have a projector yet - both because of a lack of space and that silly concept of trading 'worthless' colored paper for other goods... anyway - but I guess it's all the same everywhere.

Everytime when sophisticated technology hits the avarage John Doe Customer. Most people following any technological trend don't even understand half of the little sparks of truth burried beneath advertisements exaggerated promises. They behave like geese - or if you're more sarcastic lemmings - following their man in front, repeating the same prayers they heard from other half-educated wannabe-technicians and neglecting everything that splits with the great consensus.

I'd say that's normal and to some degree totally understandable. Life is too short for most to try and see behind every little mystery of todays technology. Just be happy that you know enough about CE stuff to get the best out of the devices you have, or more precisely you know what to try to find what best suits your expectations.

For me, life is too short to shake my head at people not wanting to learn the 'true path of electronic glory' :D

Regards

P.S. Sitting back now and listening to Daft Punks Technologic ;)

Wtf? What is wrong with people? I can't believe how stupid people are. They believe Sony's 1080p hype, and everything else is garbage. The reason DVD is "bad" is because you need the progressive magical cure.

Film-rate DVD content is progressive. It's not progressive on the disc but it is progressive.

There's no reason to get upset at people not knowing what they're talking about with regards to technology, particularly arcane minutia like framerate, i/p, cadence issues, etc.

That being said, you are coming from a CRT perspective where interlaced scanning can be hugely advantageous, whereas from a digital display perspective interlaced content distribution isn't really advantageous, and has some arcane inherent disadvantages. Still, that also doesn't address the fact that you're also approaching it from a display perspective, not a content format perspective.

In other words, you're not arguing for interlaced content, you are arguing that in your PARTICULAR situation of a CRT display, that running the display interlaced is a better choice for reasons that go beyond whatever the content is. Instead of running 1080p48, you run 1080i96 because otherwise you get flicker problems at 48 that would be quite bad. Yet it's fast enough that you're showing 1080p24 content and it will still appear just as if you were running 1080p48 but without the flicker. You'd be very very hardpressed to see the interlaced scanning artifacts at all.

I think it's a little bit presumptuous to expect people to understand this subtlety, and at the end of the day you're viewing progressive 1080p24 content just like they are, just in a rather obscure method on a very obscure technology (these days anyway).

I for one agree with them. 1080i even at 120hz still has extremely visible scan lines, and that's on an XG. On a 9" tube it would be even more obvious and less "watchable".

I think it's a little bit presumptuous to expect people to understand this subtlety, and at the end of the day you're viewing progressive 1080p24 content just like they are, just in a rather obscure method on a very obscure technology (these days anyway).

Well, Sony doesn't mean 24p when they say progressive out. The very first Sony Blu-ray stand alone players only did 60p or 60i and not 24p direct.

Their cheap ass granny's old SD CRT uses far less grade than P16. With P16 I can output 60i just like granny's. On granny's you see flicker, on my Dwin none. Even though both are 60i. Yet people think it's the fault of interlaced. When it's not. It's because their tubes use horrible grade phosphor. Sony's telling everyone "progressive FTW!" doesn't help matters. There are still plenty of direct view CRT HDTV's out there along with CRT RPTV like my brother in law has. 1080i over component on those is just fine on them. If those sets are properly set up, you still get a very reasonable picture. But those sets don't have the bling bling coolness factor of the new digitals. Then people convince themselves the progressive nature of said digitals is the reason.

This is just like anything else, such as hybrids are the best. It's not on those either. If a car used a more efficient engine, a regular car would be just as good as a combustion engine only. Also hybrids don't get good results on highway if you were to use cruise control on a long trip. Again another example of hype rather than facts.

I for one agree with them. 1080i even at 120hz still has extremely visible scan lines, and that's on an XG. On a 9" tube it would be even more obvious and less "watchable".

I personally think anyone who wants 1080p at 60hz to 96 hz on anything less than a 9500, 1209s, G90, etc is crazy. Sure 1080p is possible on a 8" but not for the price to upgrade the video chain and time invested for both focusing and astig, etc. You can get better results far cheaper and with less time spent by just using a pimped out premium 9" set. Also there's the new VDC tricked out 8" tubes with modified boards which allow 1080p but they're no better than 9" tubes and the spot size isn't anywhere close to a good 9" set.

So no offense, you either don't have your XG set up right at 1080i96.


Or you're just crazy :D

...bottom line is that "better" is a very subjective word.

...any resolution from any source device fed into a tv/crt pj is not going to "look" better if it can not resolve it!

So try and see what gives you the better picture on your device...once you have that figured out you can tweak it so that it looks acceptable.

Some 8 inches do 1080p quite well! (...not to mention the higher end 9 inch models!)

I think people buy the marketing hype no questions asked and that is the problem with most folks...(...not to mention that little specter of truth that has been presented in the wrong fashion by the marketing people to get some of you to buy it and think that it is the "greatest" and the "best" you can possibly have!)

Newer and cooler does not necessarily mean "better"

Source material is also very important! (...as you may already have read, you can not add more information where there is none, but you can make it show up in a better fashion on your screen, hence the "this resolution is better" than that one debate!)

Understand and then implement....that is the only way you will get a better PQ!

...also if your display device cannot resolve 480i/p properly it will sure as hell not gonna do 1080p! (no matter how much you tweak on it!!!)

Martin

There's no reason to get upset at people not knowing what they're talking about with regards to technology, particularly arcane minutia like framerate, i/p, cadence issues, etc.

Come on, like you never get upset. I will send you over the edge right now - TBRUNET. :D:D:D:D:D

I agree and actually there seems to be a lot of people that have very little fundamental knowledge in the basics of video.

I personally think anyone who wants 1080p at 60hz to 96 hz on anything less than a 9500, 1209s, G90, etc is crazy. Sure 1080p is possible on a 8" but not for the price to upgrade the video chain and time invested for both focusing and astig, etc. You can get better results far cheaper and with less time spent by just using a pimped out premium 9" set. Also there's the new VDC tricked out 8" tubes with modified boards which allow 1080p but they're no better than 9" tubes and the spot size isn't anywhere close to a good 9" set.

So no offense, you either don't have your XG set up right at 1080i96.


Or you're just crazy :D

Hmmm, I could be a jerk, but I will go easy.:)

To do 1080i96, you are going to need roughly the same chain as 1080p. Most (all?) cable, satellite, etc. boxes are not outputting 1080i96, so you are going to need a HTPC or VP. So, your monetary output should be roughly similar. As for focusing and astig, it shouldn't be that much more effort. Scott(tse) says he can do astig in about 5 minutes. I haven't seen him do it, but I give him the benefit of the doubt.:)
As for the VDC 8" tubes, I am not sure which way you are going. There are those 2004 sets that have been talked about, but I believe the tubes were the standard set. If you are talking about the Hi-rez tubes, then I thought Scott mentioned that there wasn't much demand for them. I can't remember if he said they were still making them or not. I haven't kept up lately, so my memory may be off. I did believe he said that they were expensive, probably in the same range as the 9" tubes.
In the end, 1080i and 1080p is a personal preference. Will 1080p be softer? Probably, but if the owner prefers it this way then that is there right. There is no correct answer.

I do not have a video processor so for BD I'm stuck with 1080P 60 and HD Fios is 1080I 60. I have watched the same movies on both and prefere 1080P.
On the flip side, my wife has to ask me if we're watching Fios or a BD. She can't tell the difference. The problem here is our eyes are trained to pick out the imperfections where as the average casual viewer can't see them. It's our curse and we alone have to live with it. What we view and stick our fingers down our throat in discust is eye candy to others.

So no offense, you either don't have your XG set up right at 1080i96.


Or you're just crazy :D

Well that makes two crazy people because I agree with Jesse. Are you saying we should "dumb down" our projectors so we don't see the scan lines? :) What do you mean about doing interlaced right? Also...I wouldn't worry about what other people think...You as the owner of your projector is the only one that needs to be happy.

Mike

Come on, like you never get upset. I will send you over the edge right now - TBRUNET. :D:D:D:D:D

I agree and actually there seems to be a lot of people that have very little fundamental knowledge in the basics of video.

Oh geez. Yeah, but he's an entirely different universe of ignorance. Ignorance doesn't bother me. It's when people actually think they know what they are talking about yet haven't a darn clue. It's the American way. We have a right to have whatever opinions we want, so I'll make damned sure I have an opinion about every possible issue whether I know one iota about the topic or not! :D

Oh geez. Yeah, but he's an entirely different universe of ignorance. Ignorance doesn't bother me. It's when people actually think they know what they are talking about yet haven't a darn clue. It's the American way. We have a right to have whatever opinions we want, so I'll make damned sure I have an opinion about every possible issue whether I know one iota about the topic or not! :D

...some Harvard University university "big kahuna" sociologist/linguistics expert lady wrote a book on this and is the accepted reading everywhere in the university systems.

Her premise was that we westerners.(...specially Americans!) argue just so that we can win...It does not matter who or what is right or wrong...just as long as we win the argument...at any cost! (of course it took her 250 pages to say that...but who cares!)

I guess we have just been conditioned/wired to be that way!

Sad...but true!

Martin