the anime movie evangelion uses 10mbit encoding instead of 8mbit?

it is the first title that uses sony Super Bit Mapping for Video ( SBMV)

and because of the 10mbit encoding it will make sure no more banding?

anybody have more info on this title? or any info about 10mbit encoding?

also what kind of tv would i need to watch 10bit ,material or what is actually super bit mapping for video?

thanks.

I dont think its encoded in 10bit since BD doesnt support it.

Are trying to check up the facts, but so far it seem to point to how they convert something to 8bits.


on an audioforum (regarding audio)

Also IIRC SBM is just Sony's marketing speak for noise shaped dither. There's nothing really special about it, but its a good idea of course.

I dont think its encoded in 10bit since BD doesnt support it...

There is one exception. Sony PS3 games support 10bit video. However I highly doubt the film is encoded as a PS3 game only playable on a PS3.

It appears to be a form of noise shaping that reduces quantization artifacts during mastering. It's highly unlikely to be 10-bit encoding on the disc itself, although certainly more bits would be used during the mastering process. Here's a link that talks about the audio version, which has existed for quite some time:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=37566

(BTW, no reason the OP couldn't have Googled this him/herself.)

your talking about audio and yes i have found that by google.

i am talking about Video.

sony is using Super Bit Mapping for Video . so it is for video. not audio.

and when i tried to check it out, i got a small bit of info on some japanese site. but it was not enough to my satisfaction. so i thought lets ask the pros on this forum :)

this is what i found on a japanese site a bit roughly translated

BD software -- if -- since the picture signal is recorded at 8 bits, when encoding the original content made at 10 bits to BD soft, processing which I change into 8 bits is performed. For this reason, in the scene which has a large gradation domain in an image, "color banding" which becomes like a high [ point / of gradation / changing ] line, and is visible to the image after encoding processing may occur.

SBMV is the gradation complement technology for images which Sony developed, and enabled smooth gradation expression also in the conversion process to 8 bits by operation processing using man's vision characteristic from 10 bits.

This technology is adopted also in the high-definition circuit "CREAS (Clias)" of the company Blu-ray Disc recorder / player.

I already see the BD, and it is outstanding: the best anime feature on Blu-ray today.

There is still very clear banding in some scenes, but the use of the SBMV made the film very consistent in color transitions (sky, red tones, etc) in almost the complete lenght of the movie.

The sound is truly incredible (DTS HD MA).
The worst: there is not English subtitles, and only Japonese audio tracks.

If you want to know more about SBMV and the master of Evangelion 1.11 go to this link

http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20090526_169966.html

your talking about audio and yes i have found that by google.

i am talking about Video.

sony is using Super Bit Mapping for Video . so it is for video. not audio.Of course, but a hint about the process is right there in the name Super Bit Mapping _for_Video_. It's very likely that a DSP process that heretofor had been applied only to audio (a 1-D correlated data stream) has been extended to handle images (2-D correlated data at a much higher rate).

"SBMV is the gradation complement technology for images which Sony developed, and enabled smooth gradation expression also in the conversion process to 8 bits by operation processing using man's vision characteristic from 10 bits."There is your answer. A conversion process from 10 bits, which is the common bit depth for mastering, to 8 bits, which is AFAIK the highest bit depth officially supported by BD (and in fact the highest supported with the VC-1 codec - AVC can do higher). Essentially a dithering operation.

Blu-ray doesn't support HDMI 1.3a Deep Color, so I don't think there can ever be 10-bit encoding without amending the standard, which would require everybody to buy new players.

Blu-ray doesn't support HDMI 1.3a Deep Color, so I don't think there can ever be 10-bit encoding without amending the standard, which would require everybody to buy new players.
Not everybody. They could do it as an extra where the extras could only be viewed by people with compatible players - like you need a compatible player to view Profile 1.1 or BD-Live extras. Do 2 encodes - one with the standard specs and one with the super extra colour and other extra stuff.

Titles have used noise shaping before to avoid banding, like Ratatouille. Is this any different or just Sony getting in on the act?

Both Broadcom and Sigma Designs have released new BD SoC's that do support HDMI 1.3 Deep Color:

The single-chip BCM7601 Blu-ray decoder continues to deliver outstanding quality audio/video and BD-Java performance for which Broadcom is recognized. Based on 65 nanometer process technology that yields high integration, small footprint size and low power consumption, some of the key enhancements integrated in the BCM7601 include full HDMI 1.3 support and enhanced video quality features such as 12-bit/162Mhz video DACs (digital to analog converters), a full 12-bit video pipeline, and full high definition (HD) motion adaptive de-interlacing support for 1080p/60 native output. The BCM7601 continues Broadcom's heritage of integrating complex digital and analog connectivity blocks that include Ethernet, USB 2.0, Serial ATA (SATA) and HDMI.

http://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=1233465

The new Samsung 2009 models use the above SoC. Not sure if all of them do.

And the new Sigma Design 8644 SoC:

http://www.sigmadesigns.com/public/Products/SMP8640/pdf_files/bluray8644_br.pdf

And I believe the new version of the Panny Unipher (?)

Umknown about the PS3 being able to "change" it's ability to process higher than 8bit color depth with a firmware upgrade.

Not everybody. They could do it as an extra where the extras could only be viewed by people with compatible players - like you need a compatible player to view Profile 1.1 or BD-Live extras. Do 2 encodes - one with the standard specs and one with the super extra colour and other extra stuff.

The new BD "multipack!" includes:

1. Regular BD
2. Deep Color BD
3. Extra's
4. DVD
5. Digital copy

:D

Both Broadcom and Sigma Designs have released new BD SoC's that do support HDMI 1.3 Deep Color:



http://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=1233465

The new Samsung 2009 models use the above SoC. Not sure if all of them do.

And the new Sigma Design 8644 SoC:

http://www.sigmadesigns.com/public/Products/SMP8640/pdf_files/bluray8644_br.pdf

And I believe the new version of the Panny Unipher (?)

Umknown about the PS3 being able to "change" it's ability to process higher than 8bit color depth with a firmware upgrade.

I was going to say they are catching up with the PS3. :D

The PS3 actually already does 12bit and has since day one. It currently "upscales" the 8 bit to 12bit.




"The PlayStation 3 and PC create their own universe, so to speak, so they can do Deep Color now (if so enabled). Apparently, some camcorders will be coming to the market soon that can do xvYCC. So steps are being made to get content. As you can imagine, film itself isn't bound by these standards. Only the mastering is. So, creating the content isn't a huge obstacle. The issue is getting that content to the consumer."

http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/207gear/

I was going to say they are catching up with the PS3. :D

The PS3 actually already does 12bit and has since day one. It currently "upscales" the 8 bit to 12bit.




"The PlayStation 3 and PC create their own universe, so to speak, so they can do Deep Color now (if so enabled). Apparently, some camcorders will be coming to the market soon that can do xvYCC. So steps are being made to get content. As you can imagine, film itself isn't bound by these standards. Only the mastering is. So, creating the content isn't a huge obstacle. The issue is getting that content to the consumer."

http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/207gear/

xvYCC HD Cams are already available:

Camcorders: Shooting Your Own xvYCC

At last year’s CES in January 2007, Sony launched the HDR-HC7 and HDR-HC5, using the relatively new xvYCC color standard. Sony branded it with the more consumer-friendly term “x.v.Color.” Its claim: reds, greens, and blues would be more true to life.

At this year’s CES, Sony launched five new camcorders in the AVCHD video format that offered the option to record in x.v.Color: the HDR-UX10, HDR-UX20, HDR-SR10, HDR-SR11, and HDR-SR12.

Panasonic also launched xvYCC-compatible high definition camcorders at CES 2008, the HDC-SD9 and the HDC-HS9, branding the feature as “Digital Cinema Color.” Panasonic’s previous color was based on the YCC standard. Its switch to xvYCC promises 120 percent more color for improved dynamic range, according to company representatives.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/xvYCC-The-Future-of-Color-34362.htm

For consumer cameras its mostly marketing. Even if they can shoot with greater range. The consumer cameras is always limited by one big thing.

The consumer itself.

How often is anyones homemade video shoot under the conditions that really take advantages of these things.

For consumer cameras its mostly marketing. Even if they can shoot with greater range. The consumer cameras is always limited by one big thing.

The consumer itself.

How often is anyones homemade video shoot under the conditions that really take advantages of these things.

That shouldn't make a difference. because xvYCC has an expanded color gamut. The consumer will see that when he compares the PQ to any other form of HD. xvYCC is 1.7 times the color gamut of 8 bit color depth.

That shouldn't make a difference. because xvYCC has an expanded color gamut. The consumer will see that when he compares the PQ to any other form of HD. xvYCC is 1.7 times the color gamut of 8 bit color depth.

Yes it will be better, but very marginal unless you have a very good camera and a very skilled operator.

Most footage for the avarage consumer will still look very "consumer".

Wait wait wait.
Evangelion is out on Blu-ray.:eek::confused:?

How is this not big news? it's Evangelion: The Movie?

Can someone give some links to the info about it or a link where I can purchase it?(In English)

That shouldn't make a difference. because xvYCC has an expanded color gamut. The consumer will see that when he compares the PQ to any other form of HD. xvYCC is 1.7 times the color gamut of 8 bit color depth.Careful here. xvYCC (AKA x.v.Color) is not the same thing as Deep Color. They are both supported by HDMI 1.3, but they are not the same thing nor do they have to be implemented together in a source or display device. xvYCC supports a ~1.8x wider color space regardless of the bit depth used.

Careful here. xvYCC (AKA x.v.Color) is not the same thing as Deep Color.

I never said it was.

And I used the proper nomenclature (other than 1.8X versus my error of 1.7X :o)

That shouldn't make a difference. because xvYCC has an expanded color gamut.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XvYCC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamut

They are both supported by HDMI 1.3, but they are not the same thing nor do they have to be implemented together in a source or display device. xvYCC supports a ~1.8x wider color space regardless of the bit depth used.

Correct.:)

I never said it was.
My mistake then. When you said "xvYCC is 1.7 times the color gamut of 8 bit color depth." I thought you were directly comparing them, which wouldn't be possible to do unless they were, well, directly comparable. :)

Wait wait wait.
Evangelion is out on Blu-ray.:eek::confused:?

How is this not big news? it's Evangelion: The Movie?

Can someone give some links to the info about it or a link where I can purchase it?(In English)

It's available in Japan. No English audio or subtitles.

http://www.yesasia.com/us/rebuild-of-evangelion-evangelion-1-11-you-are-not-alone-blu-ray-japan/1014533447-0-0-0-en/info.html

Note that this is not the "End of Evangelion" movie. It's the first of the newer
"Rebuild of Evangelion" movies that are essentially condensed remakes of the TV episodes.

The new BD "multipack!" includes:

1. Regular BD
2. Deep Color BD
3. Extra's
4. DVD
5. Digital copy

:D

You forgot:

6. "Fullscreen" (16x9) version
7. Squished "anamorphic" version for CIH setups
8. 3D version

Plus, possibly more combinations of the above

You forgot:

6. "Fullscreen" (16x9) version
7. Squished "anamorphic" version for CIH setups
8. 3D version

Plus, possibly more combinations of the above
And the 1080p50 version :)

For people who just HAVE to watch the film running too fast :p

For people who just HAVE to watch the film running too fast :p
Cinematographers have worked hard to get 1080p50 & 1080p60 into the digital cinema standards specifications and studios have/are working to get their studios 3G capable. I don't think it's too much to ask that we support the cinematographers and their intended frame rates and the full frame rates of TV studios/cameras and the frame rates that are part of the digital cinema standards.

When TV studios are set up for and are using those rates, and digital cinema, cinematographers are recording things like 1080p60 or 1080p50 and satellite stations are broadcasting in it, it's not going to be that good if the most Blu-ray can do is 1080i25 or 1080i30.