Hey all

I recently posted asking for opinions on the best sub for my price range, etc. Well, due to some unexpected expenses popping up, I'm going to have to put that off for a while. So, I'd like to try and get a little bit more from my existing sub. I don't know much about it, all the writing's been scraped off the back. I do know that it has a 12" down firing driver with a large port in the back.

Here's a quick MS Paint sketch of the room.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5720/layoutk.jpg

Currently the sub sits to the right of the entertainment center with the port facing towards to the wall. Its about 3 or 4 inches from the wall, and I can't bring it out any further as it would block the way into the breakfast nook/eat in area of the kitchen. Also, the 2 couches noted in the drawing is actually a large sectional couch. The corner piece is rounded and there's a fair amount of room behind it in that corner. Currently I have a shelf lamp back there with one of my surround speakers on it. The room itself is about 12' deep by about 20' wide. The ceiling is vaulted, about 15' at the peak. And the flooring is carpet. I do have a piece of MDF laying around somewhere that I can cut to fit the bottom of the sub. The room also has a very open floor plan. The wall the entertainment center is on is only about 8' tall and open to the kitchen on the other side.

So, my question is, where should I put the sub and how should I orient it to get the best output. I've been quite disappointed in it at it's current location. I actually seem to hear a lot more low end when I'm sitting at the table in the breakfast nook (roughly behind the sub) than I do in the living room itself. I'm open to just about anything but putting it in the middle of the room. The sub itself is roughly 15"x20"x18" tall. I don't remember if that includes the legs or not, but they're not more than 1 1/2" or so. Any suggestions would be welcomed. Thanks!

That looks like a fairly large open floor plan. You say it is a 12in? Can you tell us which one it is? I know you know, but I will say it anyway, a single 12in sub may have problems filling that room. Your current placement is also not doing it justice. With a sub that size, you really need to try and maximize what it can do. Sitting in its current spot is not going will make it difficult and may even over drive it. I would see if I could manage to get it in that corner behind the couch. Doing this should give you some more output. In that corner you might be able to get up to 6db more of output from the sub. Now, you would have to recalibrate once it is there. If it can be done, assuming you can get it wired up, that is what I would recommend. The only other things you could try, and this may not work for you, is to totally rearrange your setup. For instance, switch your sitting position and your entertainment center. May not be feasible though. Just a thought. The other idea would be to set your system up on the long dimension. Keep the couch where it is and move the cabinet to the other wall. But again, I understand that this probably has to be done "delicately"

Well, I don't foresee being able to rearrange the room. Beyond the fact that there's no way I'll be able to move that entertainment center by myself, that's the only wall I can put it on where the glare won't make the TV unwatchable during the day. But, I should be able to get the sub into the corner behind the couch. Its actually pulled out from the wall a little bit, and there's a lot of space behind the curved part of the sectional to begin with. There should be room. And if I remember right, I've got a 25' sub cable. Follow up question though, how should the sub be positioned? Which way should the port be facing, how far from the wall, etc? I am aware that a single 12 probably isn't enough to fill the room. But due to some unexpected expenses I won't be able to upgrade for a while yet, so I need to get as much out of this sub as I can. Thanks again!

I understand completely about limitations. I have my own that I am dealing with. Does the port and driver face the same direction? I would try having the sub face "forward", towards the cabinet. Some people have the sub face the wall also I believe. You may just have to experiment. I read above that the port is in the back. In that case I think you would want to give the port a little bit of breathing space. Probably at least 6 inches. But that is something that you can play with. It looks like that your main listening position. That will definitely help out in the bass department. The fact that you are so close to the sub might make it seem just a bit more powerful. You will have to recalibrate the sub level and most likely your phase adjustment. If your sub only has two settings for phase, 0 or 180, set it to what ever gives you the most output. If it variable, then again, set it up until the bass is the loudest. Don't forget to change the distance level in your receiver as well.

Its a down firing sub. The driver is on the bottom. The port is on the back above the controls. It does have just a phase switch, so its either 0 or 180. I'll experiment with it after I get it back behind the couch.

I guess I need to reword my placement question. Should the port be facing the wall, or should the sub be placed so that the port faces down the wall? Meaning, if I look at the sub from the end of the couch, should I see the plain front of the sub (meaning the port is facing the wall) or should I see the port? If the port should be facing the wall, how far from the wall should it be to achieve optimum output?

You want the port to be able to breath a bit since sound will be coming out of it. Not counting downward firing subs, "most" ported subs have the port and the driver facing the same direction. The big JM Labs Utopia Be had a rear firing port. Most ported subs have their ports facing forwards. The same as their drivers. Since your driver faces down you could really do that without to much to worry about. I would try it that way(port facing the open room). The port will contribute to the over all SPL and it may be better to have it facing into the room. The sub itself will be in the corner so you should still get some boundary reinforcement gain.

There is no real way to tell "good sub spot" with the lay out. Best spot is the corner. But then again it could the worst spot. Hell you can have the sub in the dining room corner facing the wall and that would be a good spot. It's all about trial and error. In my set-up I probably moved the sub 10 times in matter of 3 weeks. A few feet here or there makes a difference. I wish I can put the sub in my kitchen but that's not happening.

Cool, I'm hoping to move it tomorrow afternoon. I painted one side of the MDF that I'm going to put underneath it. When I get home from work in the morning I'm going to paint the other side. Hopefully it'll be dry sometime in the afternoon. I think I'm going to have to move the couch out from the wall a few inches more. Not far enough that anybody's going to notice though.

Well, I moved the sub behind the couch with the port facing along the wall (the one parallel to the wall where the TV is). With the MDF plate underneath it and the new location, the difference was just incredible. I didn't have a lot of time to play around with it, but I did notice a huge difference. I can definitely tell where its located though. I know your sub is supposed to be transparent, but mine isn't right now. I'm hoping when I rerun Audyssey tomorrow that'll help even it out. But for now, it truly is something else.

That's great. Glad it is starting to work out for you. You might have to play with the crossover, phase control, or distance parameter in your receiver. Hopefully you can get it to where it is blending a bit better-

Yeah, I need to rerun Audyssey and see what it comes up with. I've got company in town for the week, so I won't have a chance for a while though. Keeping me quiet enough to do it is one thing, keeping all three of us quiet enough is another thing all together. I've turned down the sub level in the receiver for now to balance it out with the rest of the speakers, but because of the dynamic eq, the results of that are very inconsistant. It is a huge improvement though.

Where you able to get the sub to still produce and not be too noticeable? I just upgraded my system, new AVR, new SVS PC-12 NSD sub. It's a big tube form factor and I have it tucked in a corner behind my couch. Room looks similar to yours, big, open, valuted ceiling, and so on. The bass is AMAZING, but it is extremely noticable as to where the bass is coming from when I am on my couch. When I try to tone it down or change crossover settings, I lose all of the bass. Trying to figure out if there is more I can try with settings or if I should exchange the "tube" for a box and experiment with placement outside of the corner. The tube will only work in the room in the corner. A box (like the SVS PB-12 NSD) will give me more placement options.

Let me know if you had any luck keeping the bass omni directional, while still getting good power.

Well, a bit's changed since my last post. I got rid of the no name sub. Scored a Klipsch Sub 12 CHEAP. It is currently sitting in the corner behind the sectional with the port facing along the back wall. It is sitting on the MDF. The only real issue I have right now is that the lamp is right in the corner so the sub...well....isn't. Its right on the back wall, but its about a foot from the side wall. As a result, the couch is pretty far from the back wall. I'm going to take off the bottom two sections of the lamp and mount something to the wall to sit it on. I have two of the same lamps on the back wall on either side of the couch with my surround speakers on them. They have to be the same height or it won't look right. Anyway, after I do that, I'll be able to move the sub underneath it and move the couch back close to the wall like it was before.

Anyway, to answer your question, I have rerun Audyssey with the new sub on the back wall. The sound is lot more even than it used to be. Its not transparent, but its a lot better than it used to be. And, as an added bonus, when you're sitting on the couch and the bass really hits, you get enough out of the port to make it feel like I've got butt kickers on the section facing the tv :)