Is it possible that the hd tuner in a new tv is worse than the tuner in a cheap dta box? Last week I purchased an insignia 720p/1080i LCD tv with built in atsc/hdtv tuner. I have been watching digital tv with a digital stream dta converter and an outdoor powered omnidirectional antenna since last febuary. The clarity and number of channels was so incredible I cancelled cable a couple months later. So I hooked up the new tv with all the same equipment and only get half the channels I did before. Some don't scan in and some are on and off half the time. Just wondering if there was a reason for this besides the old "well you bought a cheap tv" answer I got at the store when I asked them about it.

Most definately!

My Zenith/Insignia convertor boxes have the best tuners out of all the ones I own. With my old antenna setup, I had one channel that only the convertor box would pull in well enough to watch.

Looks like you have to upgrade/change your antenna setup if you want to keep that TV.

Yes it could. Even tho it's an omni-directional antenna, it may still have nulls it it. Try rotating the antenna on the mast before you move it. Also, you say it's a powered antenna, right? Too much signal will also freak out the digital tuner. That may explain the loss of your 2 closest and strongest channels. Radio Shack sells attenuators to cut the signal down.

The best advice I can give you is to find the forum here for your location and ask all these questions there. They should be able to help you the most since you are in the same location and they know what works and what doesn't.

Yep, welcome to the club.

Now you do realize, don't you, that the Digital Stream dta box is only putting out 480i? It's a great tuner and much better than the one in my TV, but it ain't HD.

The clarity and number of channels was so incredible I cancelled cable a couple months later.With digital you either get it or you don't. The actual clarity of the picture quality is not affected.

If you mean "pixellation" (breaking up into little blocks from a weak signal), that's a completely different thing.

A directional antenna with a rotor is preferable to an omni-directional one, because the omni is probably picking up all sorts of multipath from all sides. And older tuners especially have a bigger problem with that.

Make certain you change the menu setting from "CABLE" to "AIR" or "ANTENNA".

Also, get rid of the amplifier. It could easily be overloading the tuner.

FWIW, the new "cheap tuner boxes" usually have the best tuners since the manufacturers 1) have a published specification they have to meet or exceed and 2) know the 100% of them will be connected to an antenna. The TV manufacturers assume that 90% of their customers are going to hook up to cable or satellite and they don't care much about the rest...

Unlike an analog tuner a digital tuner will not tune a channel if the signal is either too strong or is too weak. Your close by stations may be overloading the digital tuner in your TV.

I'm still thinking that it's more a multipath issue than anything else. The standalone tuner probably handles it better.

What are your surroundings like? How is your line-of-sight?

Jmat42, We probably have the same Digital Stream box (9950?). I'm curious, what does it's signal strength meter show on various channels?

Just like you, I have tree issues, as well as hills. I have noticed that when my Digital Stream box gives a reading of 45 or less, my TV's atsc tuner will not reliably display a picture, yet I've watched solid pictures with signals as low as 33-35 on the Digital Stream.

On the two strong stations, does the DS box give a reading of 100? I'm thinking that would be your first clue the signal might be too strong for the TV's tuner.

Since I set up the new tv I had thought about pushing the antenna up. Just have to figure how tall I need to go. Wanted to get some opinions as to whether it was the problem before I put up what will essentially be a tower. Either that or I top a big oak and put the antenna up there.
FYI- I live right between the 2 closest tv markets. The two 20 mile away stations are an oddity. Most are about 40 each way. The omni seemd to give the best results for the setup I had. Problem is I still have other tvs with the dta boxes. So whatever I do needs to work good for both tv types.

>So whatever I do needs to work good for both tv types.

It's not the "type" that's different; it's how good the tuner design is. The better converter boxes (like the Zenith) are 6th generation. If you don't mind the SD quality picture, using a converter box on your HDTV is a short term solution.

If you did find an antenna solution for your HDTV, your other TV's with converters shouldn't have a problem.

What about using an external HD tuner on your new HDTV? It used to be that the Samsung DTB-H260F was recomended as the best HD tuner, but it is now out of production (avialable used on ebay) and one generation (5th generation) behind in tuner technology. I'm not sure how good some of newer HD tuners are, but that's the question I'd be asking.

There is a list at: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=179095

Some TV manafacturer's assume that people will have cable or satellite so the over the air tuners aren't always up to par. The tuner in my LCD is a little more finecky then my digital converter box (SD). Both get different channels with the antenna in the same spot.

On the two strong stations, does the DS box give a reading of 100? I'm thinking that would be your first clue the signal might be too strong for the TV's tuner.A signal overload will usually show a lower number on the signal meter.

The converter boxes often work better than a cheap TV because their tuners had to be tested and meet certain reception requirements if they wanted to be eligible for the converter box coupon program. The manufacturer of the cheap TV didn't have to meet these requirements, so they scrimped on parts.

If you want to use the built-in tuner in your TV, you'll have to upgrade your antenna to something more suitable for your location and channels being used there. It's also possible your antenna is just sitting in a reception dead spot. Another location a few feet away, or higher/lower may solve the problem.

Another option may be a bi-directional antenna, instead of an omni.

A signal overload will usually show a lower number on the signal meter.


Another option may be a bi-directional antenna, instead of an omni.

Definition of an OMNI antenna -- An antenna that receives equally poorly in all directions. :)

Definition of an OMNI antenna -- An antenna that receives equally poorly in all directions. :)LOL
Which can sometimes actually work ok. But if you have multipath, you need a very good tuner that isn't bothered by it.