I just got back form the midnight showing of Revenge of the Fallen, and all I can say is Michael Bay did his sub woofer homework. I am going on record, saying that this film will revolutionize what bass means in a movie. It had depth like you wouldn't believe, even on a crappy system that we watched it on, but the output was immense. I won't spoil anything, but see it in the theaters, and salivate. I can not wait until the Blu Ray drops. If you have seen this film, tell me your thoughts as well.

I just got back form the midnight showing of Revenge of the Fallen, and all I can say is Michael Bay did his sub woofer homework. I am going on record, saying that this film will revolutionize what bass means in a movie. It had depth like you wouldn't believe, even on a crappy system that we watched it on, but the output was immense. I won't spoil anything, but see it in the theaters, and salivate. I can not wait until the Blu Ray drops. If you have seen this film, tell me your thoughts as well.

I personally hate the new trend in films where the bass track is just overly heavy, overbearing and ridiculous. I thought the HULK with Ed Norton was already a bit overkill. Now I like bass in movies, but when it is exaggerated, it just gets on my damn nerves...

I personally hate the new trend in films where the bass track is just overly heavy, overbearing and ridiculous. I thought the HULK with Ed Norton was already a bit overkill. Now I like bass in movies, but when it is exaggerated, it just gets on my damn nerves...

I personally have the opposite opinion. I love movies with in your face bass and LFE. I did not think Hulk's LFE track was that hot anyway. IT had lots of bass for sure, but it did not seem out of place to me. I realize that it can be a little distracting when the LFE track is mixed extra hot, but I often rent a movie/blu-ray just for it's bass reputation. I'm looking forward to the new transformers both in theatres and at home on my system.

I personally hate the new trend in films where the bass track is just overly heavy, overbearing and ridiculous. I thought the HULK with Ed Norton was already a bit overkill. Now I like bass in movies, but when it is exaggerated, it just gets on my damn nerves...

thanks for sharing

I just got back form the midnight showing of Revenge of the Fallen, and all I can say is Michael Bay did his sub woofer homework. I am going on record, saying that this film will revolutionize what bass means in a movie. It had depth like you wouldn't believe, even on a crappy system that we watched it on, but the output was immense. I won't spoil anything, but see it in the theaters, and salivate. I can not wait until the Blu Ray drops. If you have seen this film, tell me your thoughts as well.


Yeah, I thought the same thing in the theaters for the first Transformers movie. Then I got the DVD and was like, "wtf happened?". I'm not holding my breath this time.

I can't wait for it. I plan on watching it on IMAX. Their sound system is crazy already. I wonder how it will sound on Transformers. Dark Knight was great in IMAX.

I completely agree. Dark Knight was awesome and Transformers 2 looks sick!!

Just saw a review of T2 and it more or less sucked...

I think the reviewer may wear pink loafers though.

I personally hate the new trend in films where the bass track is just overly heavy, overbearing and ridiculous. I thought the HULK with Ed Norton was already a bit overkill. Now I like bass in movies, but when it is exaggerated, it just gets on my damn nerves...

++

Why mess up a soundtrack for the sake of a bunch of idiots who can't figure out that they could just get an EQ and add whatever ridiculous amount of bass they'd want? :rolleyes:

It is not King until it gets released on bluray and still has great bass, we will see. The First Transformers had excellent bass that was very powerful. I rate it a 4.5 out of 5. We want articulate and powerful bass we can feel, not bloated bass that is a one note thumper, guys don't confuse the two.

++

Why mess up a soundtrack for the sake of a bunch of idiots who can't figure out that they could just get an EQ and add whatever ridiculous amount of bass they'd want? :rolleyes:

It isn't about the amount of bass. It is about bass depth and about placing bass effects in the appropriate scenes to accompany the action that's taking place. Just raising the bass eq will boost the bass in all parts of the movie. That's not what anyone should want.

++

Why mess up a soundtrack for the sake of a bunch of idiots who can't figure out that they could just get an EQ and add whatever ridiculous amount of bass they'd want? :rolleyes:


The world is trending towards nanny state for idiots, in case you haven't noticed.

It isn't about the amount of bass. It is about bass depth and about placing bass effects in the appropriate scenes to accompany the action that's taking place. Just raising the bass eq will boost the bass in all parts of the movie. That's not what anyone should want.

We ALL love good, solid, deep and well placed bass, it makes or breaks a soundtrack, but there is a thin line between making and breaking a soundtrack. It seems more like these guys just want bass for the bass, and Hollywood is leaning toward this as more and more people get subs in their homes. I am curious though as to what kind of subs those of you who love DA BASS use in your home cinema?

I have a Seaton Sound SubMersive1. I enjoy movies like WOTW, Transformers, Live Free or Die Hard, The Dark Knight, Coverfield and The Incredible Hulk. The bass really just adds another dimension to the watching experience. If your system is calibrated, it really does not detract from the enjoying the movie.

We ALL love good, solid, deep and well placed bass, it makes or breaks a soundtrack, but there is a thin line between making and breaking a soundtrack. It seems more like these guys just want bass for the bass, and Hollywood is leaning toward this as more and more people get subs in their homes. I am curious though as to what kind of subs those of you who love DA BASS use in your home cinema?

K-Mart 40,000 watt 8 inchers in a custom K-Mart box.... :D

K-Mart 40,000 watt 8 inchers in a custom K-Mart box.... :D

Hehe, you saw where I was going with that lol...

Hehe, you saw where I was going with that lol...

Yeeesh :D

I think the reviewer may wear pink loafers though.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

And I agree with those who would rather not have bass just for the sake of having bass. Appropriate bass that accurately reflects what is going on on screen is great. But someone flitting across the screen in pink loafers doesn't warrant constant booming at every footstep.

I am curious though as to what kind of subs those of you who love DA BASS use in your home cinema?

4x 15" Acoustic Elegance IB powered by a Crown XLS 802D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/Boltsoftware/IB%20Sub/HPIM1408.jpg

4x 15" Acoustic Elegance IB powered by a Crown XLS 802D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/Boltsoftware/IB%20Sub/HPIM1408.jpg


Nice setup....:eek:

I think this can easily score a zero in WAF however!

Threads that start with OMG usually are pretty adolescent in nature.

This one is no exception.

4x 15" Acoustic Elegance IB powered by a Crown XLS 802D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/Boltsoftware/IB%20Sub/HPIM1408.jpg

Tell me this isn't in an apartment! Holy crow! My wife would shoot me if I even thought about this let alone did it. :o

Tell me this isn't in an apartment! Holy crow! My wife would shoot me if I even thought about this let alone did it. :o

In my house with 4 other college students :)

However in 2 weeks I'm moving to another apartment. I'm switching it over to an OB setup

Threads that start with OMG usually are pretty adolescent in nature.

This one is no exception.

Well thank God people can let loose once in awhile. ;)

In my house with 4 other college students :)

However in 2 weeks I'm moving to another apartment. I'm switching it over to an OB setup

Your neighbors are going to just love you! :D

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/images/th221_large.jpg

Danley TH-221.

Epik Dynasty and Epik Tower here. There is nothing better than watching a bass heavy movie like Transformers or Hulk. If you have to use butt shakers to feel the bass then you need more/better subs. My butt gets a good massage during those movies.

We ALL love good, solid, deep and well placed bass, it makes or breaks a soundtrack, but there is a thin line between making and breaking a soundtrack. It seems more like these guys just want bass for the bass, and Hollywood is leaning toward this as more and more people get subs in their homes. I am curious though as to what kind of subs those of you who love DA BASS use in your home cinema?

I agree sometimes they go over the top with bass that really just annoys more than helps. I guess it is like when you listen to music with nice bass and then someone a mile and a half away from you is playing bass so overdriven that it just sounds like s**t....IMO.

4x 15" Acoustic Elegance IB powered by a Crown XLS 802D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/Boltsoftware/IB%20Sub/HPIM1408.jpg

Is that a room in your house or the trunk of your car? :D

4x 15" Acoustic Elegance IB powered by a Crown XLS 802D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/Boltsoftware/IB%20Sub/HPIM1408.jpg

WOW. Talk about slammability!!!!!!:eek::cool:

My butt gets a good massage during those movies.
For a whole lot less $$, I think you can buy a chair that'll do that...
:D

I just got back form the midnight showing of Revenge of the Fallen, and all I can say is Michael Bay did his sub woofer homework. I am going on record, saying that this film will revolutionize what bass means in a movie. It had depth like you wouldn't believe, even on a crappy system that we watched it on, but the output was immense. I won't spoil anything, but see it in the theaters, and salivate. I can not wait until the Blu Ray drops. If you have seen this film, tell me your thoughts as well.


What Theater did you go to?

I went to Valley View in Independence. The DLP picture was great but the Bass was TOTALLY lacking. I even sat 2/3rds from the back like you are supposed to!

For a whole lot less $$, I think you can buy a chair that'll do that...
:D

True, but a massage chair doesn't really help bring movies to life. :D

4x 15" Acoustic Elegance IB powered by a Crown XLS 802D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/Boltsoftware/IB%20Sub/HPIM1408.jpg

This set-up pretty much sums up my point, there is no HI-FI in that get-up.

This set-up pretty much sums up my point, there is no HI-FI in that get-up.

Are you kidding me?

Do you even know what subs those are and how good their reputation is?

Do you have any clue what speakers those are? Have you ever even heard any speakers designed by cjd?

You have no clue what you're talking about. Just because I didn't buy it at a showroom and it doesn't have some audiophile insignia on it doesn't mean anything.

Do your research.

What Theater did you go to?

I went to Valley View in Independence. The DLP picture was great but the Bass was TOTALLY lacking. I even sat 2/3rds from the back like you are supposed to!

I went to Regal Interstate Park 18, the theater was very good, and the bass was ridiculous. It blew the first one out of the water, in my opinion. All and all, a very good follow up to the first one.

you guys got lucky cause the digital theater we saw it either had the level way too low or subs amps turned down or something

as for the video edition remember the dvd, hd dvd with a tone down mix
the blu ray seems to have corrected that

TERMINATOR SALVATION and STAR TREK (35mm and Digital resp.)
blew away the theater sound of TSF2

What Theater did you go to?

I went to Valley View in Independence. The DLP picture was great but the Bass was TOTALLY lacking. I even sat 2/3rds from the back like you are supposed to!

same here though overal level was low.
and film-tech guys confirm, something wrong with sound

could be theaters specifics though.
Bay is a bass freak so i doubt it's the mix

How is the actual movie, sound aside? I thought the first was lackluster, well, other than Megan fox.

WOW. Talk about slammability!!!!!!:eek::cool:

nice expression

I went to Regal Interstate Park 18, the theater was very good, and the bass was ridiculous. It blew the first one out of the water, in my opinion. All and all, a very good follow up to the first one.


That theater is only 41 miles away. Better than me driving 125 miles to Columbus and their IMAX!

How is the actual movie, sound aside? I thought the first was lackluster, well, other than Megan fox.

It's about 40 mins too long. I wish they would have scrapped the whole human angle and just focused on the transformers. However, it is what it is...a summer popcorn movie with cool-ass special effects and action. Let's just say it won't be up for best picture, but that is not their intent.

This set-up pretty much sums up my point, there is no HI-FI in that get-up.

So....why isn't it HI-FI? I didn't realize that the term HI-FI had anything to do with aesthetics.

It's about 40 mins too long. I wish they would have scrapped the whole human angle and just focused on the transformers. However, it is what it is...a summer popcorn movie with cool-ass special effects and action. Let's just say it won't be up for best picture, but that is not their intent.

I will say that the film was good enough to not be a letdown for a sequel.. In terms of following up something new like the original, they did a lot with what they had, a movie about outer space robots interacting with humans. I didn't feel that it was too long, I actually thought the characters carried the movie (the mom, dad, Sam and the Simmons).
8.0/10 movie
9.5/10 visual effects
10/10 bass
10/10 entertainment value
10+/10 Megan Fox

+1 I loved Transformers 2, saw It twice. But My home theater has me spoiled, because neither theater had as much bass. Blu-ray purchase day one for me!

Are you kidding me?

Do you even know what subs those are and how good their reputation is?

Do you have any clue what speakers those are? Have you ever even heard any speakers designed by cjd?

You have no clue what you're talking about. Just because I didn't buy it at a showroom and it doesn't have some audiophile insignia on it doesn't mean anything.

Do your research.

Hi-Fi is the quality reproduction of sound as faithful as possible to the original recording. You mean to tell me that rig reproduces original sound faithfully? Do they blend in with the fronts seamlessly? Do they add just the right amount of bass to a filmtrack without killing the rest of the sound? Doubt it very much...They are in a word...Overkill. And I am sure they do a great job at that, but that is not HI-FI.

They are in a word...Overkill.

Not overkill, headroom! :D

Hi-Fi is the quality reproduction of sound as faithful as possible to the original recording. You mean to tell me that rig reproduces original sound faithfully? Do they blend in with the fronts seamlessly? Do they add just the right amount of bass to a filmtrack without killing the rest of the sound? Doubt it very much...They are in a word...Overkill. And I am sure they do a great job at that, but that is not HI-FI.

You surely are aware that any sub, no matter how large and powerful, can be calibrated to play at just the right levels to match the main speakers? Any unused pawer and output capability then just becomes headroom. Plenty of headroom usually = clean, undistorted, and uncompressed bass.

You mean to tell me that rig reproduces original sound faithfully? Do they blend in with the fronts seamlessly? Do they add just the right amount of bass to a filmtrack without killing the rest of the sound? Doubt it very much...

Based on? :rolleyes:

Hi-Fi is the quality reproduction of sound as faithful as possible to the original recording. You mean to tell me that rig reproduces original sound faithfully? Do they blend in with the fronts seamlessly? Do they add just the right amount of bass to a filmtrack without killing the rest of the sound? Doubt it very much...They are in a word...Overkill. And I am sure they do a great job at that, but that is not HI-FI.

Perhaps you should bow out of this conversation before you get yourself in deeper than you already are.

For the record, IBs are one of the most effective alignments you can get. Most are flat to single digits. AE makes one of the absolute best IB drivers money can buy. I'd pit Xander's IB against anything you can buy under $5k and the IB would probably win.

Call it headroom, call it what you will, but guys don't build subs like that just to have a perfectly faithful reproduction of music or films with a little "headroom". It is overkill and ridiculous, no matter how you try to justify it. The only reason one builds something like that is to have ridiculous amounts of bass. To say otherwise is a joke.

It would be interesting to hear what everything sounded like in the mixing stage/studio.

Damn opions eh!!!!!!!

Each their own.

Hi-Fi musically or HT

Ever listen to a passenger train rollin' into the station. The amount of bottom end is ridiculous. Bob Carver also stated once that it took 1000 watts to reproduce a pin drop effectively.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/Boltsoftware/IB%20Sub/HPIM1408.jpg

Nice setup....:eek:

I think this can easily score a zero in WAF however!

I got a kick out of this comment :)

Looks, and I bet it sounds like the perfect college setup.

Bless your heart. Enjoy!

Call it headroom, call it what you will, but guys don't build subs like that just to have a perfectly faithful reproduction of music or films with a little "headroom". It is overkill and ridiculous, no matter how you try to justify it. The only reason one builds something like that is to have ridiculous amounts of bass. To say otherwise is a joke.

Perhaps you should read up on headroom and how decibels work. Its not uncommon to have 20db of swing in a movie soundtrack or uncompressed audio disc.

Call it headroom, call it what you will, but guys don't build subs like that just to have a perfectly faithful reproduction of music or films with a little "headroom". It is overkill and ridiculous, no matter how you try to justify it. The only reason one builds something like that is to have ridiculous amounts of bass. To say otherwise is a joke.

lol, a "purist."

It sounds more like the rant of someone with a case of "sub envy". :p

Call it headroom, call it what you will, but guys don't build subs like that just to have a perfectly faithful reproduction of music or films with a little "headroom". It is overkill and ridiculous, no matter how you try to justify it. The only reason one builds something like that is to have ridiculous amounts of bass. To say otherwise is a joke.

So in other words, you have no concept of how distortion typically scales with excursion, or exactly how much output it actually takes to have "reproduction of sound as faithful as possible to the original recording". And you aren't afraid to blindly bash someone else's system despite your lack of knowledge in the subject.

Call it headroom, call it what you will, but guys don't build subs like that just to have a perfectly faithful reproduction of music or films with a little "headroom". It is overkill and ridiculous, no matter how you try to justify it. The only reason one builds something like that is to have ridiculous amounts of bass. To say otherwise is a joke.

In order to reproduce full realistic bass at clean, real life levels all the way down the scale (and everything else on up the scale for that matter) requires massive headroom. I assume that you've been next to a train as it rolls by, felt thunder, or been close to a helicopter, or gun shots? You are probably thinking that is just silly effects and you are talking about the faithful reproduction of music? Ever heard a pipe organ in the church, a marching band, a rock concert in person? They are loud and dynamic. Being close to an orchestra pit is very dynamic and very loud as well. Ever heard a dynamic unamplified drummer up close and personal?

If you want to "faithfully" reproduce those sounds then by default your system must be capable of huge dynamic range and output. If the recorded media is supposed to represent this as well then it still holds true. On the other hand if you mean that a system or the recorded media is not supposed to represent live music or actual real world events, but a greatly compressed, dynamically limited and IMHO neutered version of the live/real event, then you are correct.

It's not like everyone is listening with their system cranked all the time. Ragging on someone for having a system capable of going there if they want to is silly though. I would rather have me give up before the system does.

How is the actual movie, sound aside? I thought the first was lackluster, well, other than Megan fox.

Well I took my family to see it last night (wife, 11-yr old son and 9-yr old daughter.) I'm 46.

I have the first one on HD DVD. We've watched it a few times.

For me personally, I thought is was pretty bad, as did my wife.

My kids liked it, which was the whole point. (They even took some of their Transformers figures in with them.)

Some of the scenes I really didn't like my kids watching (frat party and the like), I didn't like my kids hearing some of the language, either. I didn't think those parts added to the movie, and scenes like that weren't in the first one.

I'm not a prude, for example I enjoyed Layer Cake, Eastern Promises, The Departed, et. al. They just aren't marketed at elementary school-aged children. Yes, I know this is a PG-13 movie, but so was the first one, and the recent Batman reboot. Also, I don't see many 13+ year-olds running out to get a new Bumblebee, like my son did.

Also, I though the story was a bit disjointed. It's as if Bay figured "it has to be bigger than the first one, right?" and didn't worry too much about it making (a lot of) sense.

I thought some of the battle scenes were shot too close to the action, so I couldn't see what was happening. (Same problem I had with Quantum of Solace.)

The theater I saw it in had great multichannel sound, good amplification, but only so-so bass and PQ. I looked, but couldn't find it in a THX Certified theater at the time I had available to get the family to it.

The humor between Skids and Mudflap was enjoyable (again, if indeed a little vulgar for elementary school ears.)

I really enjoyed the fact that the Decepticons strategy and history was explored more fully than in the first movie.

I know my son will want me to get the Blu-ray as soon as it's released, and I will. I'll watch it at least a couple more times. It's not a bad movie, I just thought it could have been a lot better. I's sure the box-office receipts will show whether the public agrees with me.

headroom FTW!

you can never have to many subs or to much power. it's impossible.

Well I took my family to see it last night (wife, 11-yr old son and 9-yr old daughter.) I'm 46.

I have the first one on HD DVD. We've watched it a few times.



I've heard the LFE track on the first one was neutered. Its definately not on the BD.

To believe that a small sub system can come close to reproducing the original low frequency event is foolhardy at best. High level and deep low frequency sounds are high energy events. To think some dinky little audiophile approved 12" subwoofer can even remotely come close to the very ideal of high power, high fidelity reproduction of the original event is foolish. It takes excursion, surface area and power to faithfully reproduce a 16' stop on a pipe organ, or the initial strike and resonance of a low tuned tympani. The vast overwhelming majority of audio systems, including most "hifi" systems (of which I've sold and set up countless thousands over the past 29 years) are flat out inadequate.
I recently played with a JL Fathom which was part of a calibration I did for a client about a month ago...what a disappointment that was! Particularly for the $3000 he spent on it. Talk about much ado about nothing. Guy could have put a Danley TH-50 in there (and probably will) which is actually a real subwoofer.

it sounds more like the rant of someone with a case of "sub envy". :p

100%!!!!! I guess dude isn't aware that he's in a SUB forum...

4x 15" Acoustic Elegance IB powered by a Crown XLS 802D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/Boltsoftware/IB%20Sub/HPIM1408.jpg

Ugh! I hate to bring you the bad news, but whoever built your sub messed up. They put the drivers on the wrong side! :eek: See the 4 sub drivers? That side you're seeing should be inside of the sub, there definitely should be no wires sticking out like that... You should try to unscrew everything, then reverse the drivers, and screw everything back up on the right side. Ah crap, but you also need to resolder the wires, but you can't, if they're screwed in the right side... Ok I see the dilemma of whoever built it now... But anyway, that's why you get your stuff build by pros, so you don't get face to face with insurmountable problems and have to screw in things backwards so that you can wire wires and stuff...

Next time, don't get sub par components from unreliable builders... Buy it from a reputable manufacturer, for the same money you paid for yours, you could have gotten a real sub, like this one (http://www.totemacoustic.com/products/sub-woofer/dreamcatcher_sub/). Quality over quantity. Light, stiff, lock-mitred jointing and a true monocoque chassis assure their integrity regardless of abrupt dynamic, temperature or humidity changes. Capture your dreams. It is only through the support of advocates such as yourself that true sound can be promoted... Quality certified. All Totem products are created with the utmost care and quality in mind. If ever a problem should arise Totem’s speaker are covered by a five year limited warranty (two years for the sub-woofer amplifier), starting from the date of purchase. Registration for your new Totem speaker can be done either by filling out the card that comes with your purchase or by filling out our on-line registration form. / Thank you!

Ugh! I hate to bring you the bad news, but whoever built your sub messed up. They put the drivers on the wrong side! :eek: See the 4 sub drivers? That side you're seeing should be inside of the sub, there definitely should be no wires sticking out like that...

Next time, don't get sub par components from unreliable builders... Buy it from a reputable manufacturer, for the same money you paid for yours, you could have gotten a real sub, like this one (http://www.totemacoustic.com/products/sub-woofer/dreamcatcher_sub/). Quality over quantity. Light, stiff, lock-mitred jointing and a true monocoque chassis assure their integrity regardless of abrupt dynamic, temperature or humidity changes. Capture your dreams. It is only through the support of advocates such as yourself that true sound can be promoted... Quality certified. All Totem products are created with the utmost care and quality in mind. If ever a problem should arise Totem’s speaker are covered by a five year limited warranty (two years for the sub-woofer amplifier), starting from the date of purchase. Registration for your new Totem speaker can be done either by filling out the card that comes with your purchase or by filling out our on-line registration form. / Thank you!

For your sake, I hope you're joking.

My sarcasm detector is not working very well.

I can give you three reasons why they are mounted inverted.

Wait, you just edited your post...I now realize you weren't joking. I'm sorry for you.

Reason 1. The other side of the wall is the bathroom. I did not want to expose the motors to a humid environment with changing temperatures. That results in condensation. Not something I want there. The fronts of the cones are also treated. More resilient to the humid environment.

Reason 2. I needed to utilize as much space as possible in the manifold. Reverse mounting the subs leaves more room inside for air flow.

Reason 3. Wiring, which you mentioned. I would have to run the wiring back through the wall to hook it up to the amp.

When playing such low frequencies as these do (low pass at 80 hz, 24 db/oct), it does not make a difference which side of the driver you hear. They will sound the same. Not necessarily true for a midbass, and definitely not for a midrange. But true here

And I assure you I built that manifold well enough. I have a bachelors in mechanical design engineering, I have done a ridiculous amount of research in acoustics and enclosures, and I am starting school for audio engineering.

Subs like the one you linked to have nothing that I want.

Wait, you just edited your post...I now realize you weren't joking. I'm sorry for you.

Reason 1. The other side of the wall is the bathroom. I did not want to expose the motors to a humid environment with changing temperatures. That results in condensation. Not something I want there. The fronts of the cones are also treated. More resilient to the humid environment.

Reason 2. I needed to utilize as much space as possible in the manifold. Reverse mounting the subs leaves more room inside for air flow.

Reason 3. Wiring, which you mentioned. I would have to run the wiring back through the wall to hook it up to the amp.

When playing such low frequencies as these do (low pass at 80 hz, 24 db/oct), it does not make a difference which side of the driver you hear. They will sound the same. Not necessarily true for a midbass, and definitely not for a midrange. But true here

And I assure you I built that manifold well enough. I have a bachelors in mechanical design engineering, I have done a ridiculous amount of research in acoustics and enclosures, and I am starting school for audio engineering.

Subs like the one you linked to have nothing that I want.

Awesome set up! I'd love to hear it....Those other guys are just jealous...

For your sake, I hope you're joking.

My sarcasm detector is not working very well.

I can give you three reasons why they are mounted inverted.
I can give you three reasons too:
1) required to be able to wire them. (how can you solder the wire if the drivers are screwed in the right side? You can't!)
3) The worst reason, that when the subs are in the wrong way, when they fire their sound, it all goes INTO the cabinet. haha. Let me ask you, where do you want the sound? Inside the box? Or at the listener? Following the logic of that sub builder, if you made a gun, it would shoot whoever is holding the gun in the face instead of shooting whoever the gun owner is trying to shoot. That's like, worst design ever. That would be like a car going 200mph in reverse, but only 5mph forward... Like... What would be the point? Who'd be like oh, I want this car! And then drive backwards all the time? Not me!

I could find even more stuff wrong with it, like the wires aren't even the same color, there's some red ones and some white ones, that looks bad, so whoever electrician had no idea of what he was doing, or that the wire is almost touching the floor and there's no cable risers in sight, or that there's pro stuff (amps) in the room, and obviously whoever build the sub isn't a pro, and who bought it isn't either, because like 99% of it is wrong and he had to know like nothing to buy it. Also its funny that you're saying that you hope I'm joking, because what's funny, is that Totem sub, with its 6 inch woofer, firing the right way, would kick the crap out of your same colored wire inverted fire sound in box sub. That's just physics. :p

Wait, you just edited your post...I now realize you weren't joking. I'm sorry for you.

Reason 1. The other side of the wall is the bathroom. I did not want to expose the motors to a humid environment with changing temperatures. That results in condensation. Not something I want there. The fronts of the cones are also treated. More resilient to the humid environment.

Reason 2. I needed to utilize as much space as possible in the manifold. Reverse mounting the subs leaves more room inside for air flow.

Reason 3. Wiring, which you mentioned. I would have to run the wiring back through the wall to hook it up to the amp.

When playing such low frequencies as these do (low pass at 80 hz, 24 db/oct), it does not make a difference which side of the driver you hear. They will sound the same. Not necessarily true for a midbass, and definitely not for a midrange. But true here

And I assure you I built that manifold well enough. I have a bachelors in mechanical design engineering, I have done a ridiculous amount of research in acoustics and enclosures, and I am starting school for audio engineering.

Subs like the one you linked to have nothing that I want.

Ok Mr audio school... Who are they going to believe, you with 466 posts and a sub built the wrong way, or me with 1,461 posts and physics on my side... Nuff'said! :p

Too funny when someone misses the sarcastic humour ;) :D I 'only' have a sealed 12 inch sub... :( IB for the win!

Dear God, is it April Fools again and I didn't even realize it?

Here goes nothing.

Did you not read my post above?

An audio signal is a complex alternating wave. It alternates above and below the zero point. That means that it has both negative and positive voltage. This voltage flowing through the voice coil creates a magnetic field. It is essentially an inductor. This magnetic field interacts with the permanent magnet on the speaker. The assembly is often referred to as the "motor."

The interacting magnetic fields cause the voice coil, which is attached to the cone, to move back and forth through the gap. It moves one way with positive voltage, the opposite way with negative voltage. The back and forth motion of the cone creates positive and negative pressure. This change in pressure is detected by our ears and translates to sound.

Because the cone moves both ways, pressure changes are created on both sides of the cone. They are 180 degrees out of phase with each other. When two waves 180 degrees out of phase with eachother combine, they cancel eachother out. The main reason that speakers are mounted on a baffle is to separate the front and rear waves to prevent the cancellation. Many speakers, including subs, are mounted in boxes. This separates the front and rear waves. I won't get into box or air spring physics here.

I'm sure that Totem sub sounds fantastic. But I would like to see it try to reproduce 20 hz at 120 db.

Just a simple question, I know cone shapes make a difference as far as midrange drivers go. What about for a subwoofer? Why or why not? And if not, why don't we just a flat surface which is easier to manuracture?

I can give you three reasons too:
1) required to be able to wire them. (how can you solder the wire if the drivers are screwed in the right side? You can't!)
3) The worst reason, that when the subs are in the wrong way, when they fire their sound, it all goes INTO the cabinet. haha. Let me ask you, where do you want the sound? Inside the box? Or at the listener? Following the logic of that sub builder, if you made a gun, it would shoot whoever is holding the gun in the face instead of shooting whoever the gun owner is trying to shoot. That's like, worst design ever. That would be like a car going 200mph in reverse, but only 5mph forward... Like... What would be the point? Who'd be like oh, I want this car! And then drive backwards all the time? Not me!

I could find even more stuff wrong with it, like the wires aren't even the same color, there's some red ones and some white ones, that looks bad, so whoever electrician had no idea of what he was doing, or that the wire is almost touching the floor and there's no cable risers in sight, or that there's pro stuff (amps) in the room, and obviously whoever build the sub isn't a pro, and who bought it isn't either, because like 99% of it is wrong and he had to know like nothing to buy it. Also its funny that you're saying that you hope I'm joking, because what's funny, is that Totem sub, with its 6 inch woofer, firing the right way, would kick the crap out of your same colored wire inverted fire sound in box sub. That's just physics. :p



Ok Mr audio school... Who are they going to believe, you with 466 posts and a sub built the wrong way, or me with 1,461 posts and physics on my side... Nuff'said! :p

Too funny when someone misses the sarcastic humour ;) :D I 'only' have a sealed 12 inch sub... :( IB for the win!

This is the greatest post I have ever read -- You had me at "...there's no cable risers in sight".

Good stuff.

Just a simple question, I know cone shapes make a difference as far as midrange drivers go. What about for a subwoofer? Why or why not? And if not, why don't we just a flat surface which is easier to manuracture?

Structural Integrity. A flat cone, unless braced or made of very stiff material (often heavy or expensive) would bend or warp much easier than a, well, cone shaped cone.

There are some flat cone subs out there. Often on shallow subs. But you make sacrifices. Like increasing mms (moving mass) or cost.

Okay, so you edited your post again. You were just joking. I can't tell these things!

Are you serious Grandarf? Is this your first time in the audio forums? I have more posts than you, so whatever I say makes it right by your logic and I say Xander has his ducks in a row :)

Mr. Grandarf is jesting...

:)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/Boltsoftware/IB%20Sub/HPIM1408.jpg

Actually, there are several glaringly evident shortcomings with Mr. Moser's setup.

1: Where's the damn TV!
2: Working on this...
3: Can't think of anything.
4: At a loss here.

:D

Actually, there are several glaringly evident shortcomings with Mr. Moser's setup.

1: Where's the damn TV!
2: Working on this...
3: Can't think of anything.
4: At a loss here.

:D

I have a Panasonic PT-AX200U to fill the wall :)

There is a problem...I never had the funds left to build a screen. The wall is acceptable for our uses. But would be better with dedicated screen.

I have a Panasonic PT-AX200U to fill the wall :)

I knew this ;)

Nice setup :)

Well I'm ready for the "challenge".

Would be nice if the movie got better reviews. Bolt was good. :)

well fortunately some of you can test this movie out on your own systems!(cough* leaked onto torrent *cough)

well fortunately some of you can test this movie out on your own systems!(cough* leaked onto torrent *cough)

Well, besides the legality issue, it would not have the LFE track would it? My guess is that it is someone with a camcorder that recorded the movie?

Well, besides the legality issue, it would not have the LFE track would it? My guess is that it is someone with a camcorder that recorded the movie?

I think sometimes a rip gets leaked early...like from a production studio.

You may be right though. Which I wouldn't even want to watch.

Who watches Transformers for the story?

I have seen a few studio DVDs of movies given to Academy members. They all had copyright captions throughout the movie. Haven't come across a Bluray yet...but I am sure they are coming.

I have a Seaton Sound SubMersive1. I enjoy movies like WOTW, Transformers, Live Free or Die Hard, The Dark Knight, Coverfield and The Incredible Hulk. The bass really just adds another dimension to the watching experience. If your system is calibrated, it really does not detract from the enjoying the movie.

+1 here

I saw this movie in the local IMAX yesterday with some friends, and all of us were not impressed with the LFE content. Really, I didn't think there was anything special about the bass. I saw Watchmen in the same IMAX and it had much more LFE than Transformers 2 did, at least in that theater.

I saw it at the IMAX in KC. It sure had a lot of bass down to say 35 maybe 30hz, but below that output was really lacking...but what you expect from a 500-700 seat theater?

I'm willing to wager that a good portion of commercial cinema's cranked down the LFE channel volume for this one. I know my local IMAX did, as bass was almost non existent. Sad... Very sad...:(

To believe that a small sub system can come close to reproducing the original low frequency event is foolhardy at best. High level and deep low frequency sounds are high energy events. To think some dinky little audiophile approved 12" subwoofer can even remotely come close to the very ideal of high power, high fidelity reproduction of the original event is foolish. It takes excursion, surface area and power to faithfully reproduce a 16' stop on a pipe organ, or the initial strike and resonance of a low tuned tympani. The vast overwhelming majority of audio systems, including most "hifi" systems (of which I've sold and set up countless thousands over the past 29 years) are flat out inadequate.
I recently played with a JL Fathom which was part of a calibration I did for a client about a month ago...what a disappointment that was! Particularly for the $3000 he spent on it. Talk about much ado about nothing. Guy could have put a Danley TH-50 in there (and probably will) which is actually a real subwoofer.

"there is no replacement for displacement" :D

next up some more capable mains??...... very cool sub :cool:

What makes you think his mains aren't very capable? I'm guessing they're alsy DIY (didn't recognize them), he's got two woofers in each, probably >5 inches, probably he has them crossed over at 60-80hz, and he's got plenty of power... I don't doubt they could make your ears bleed!!!

Hmmm... Or was it my turn to faceplant in some missed sarcastic humor? Errr...

Are the LCR's NAT P's or Zaphs?
I'm liking the theater. It's like Christmas in speaker land!

those mid/bass looks like dayton drivers...

Just saw the transformer 2 movie but not in the THX theater. There were a couple of loud 40-60 hz scenes but not much else. I will rewatch it on the THX screen to compare.

BTW, nice IB. You can make it look more like a theater if you choose for cheap. Just buy a big piece of speaker cloth and cover the sides, top and bottom then fill the center with AT screen and done. Then people won't know what hit them, that is the fun part.

by more capable I meant ones with big woofers :) I'm sure they are fine as is but hard to believe they can keep up with the IB if really pushed

For mids, bigger definitely doesn't mean more capable...

Take a look here: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-tutorials/26293-brief-look-excursion-vs-frequency-various-speaker-sizes.html

Remember that 2 woofers = 2 times the surface, requires 2 times less excursion. The lower the bass, the more excursion required. With 2x 5 inches, in that example, for twin woofers, would probably be less than 3mm excursion for 100dB at 80hz... For 6.5 inches... Like 2mm... And 'we' don't know the max excursion of the drivers used... Could be 10mm for all we know...

Anyhow, bigger helps for bass response, max SPL, but excursion is just as important for output...

The LCRs are designed by cjd from the HTGuide DIY forums.

The mids are Dayton RS150s (6" mid) and the tweeter is a Seas H1212. They're crossed at 80hz. The box is sealed. I built them about a year ago. It actually took me about 6 months before finally getting the foam and stuffing inside the speakers just right.

I have done a couple high volume music tests with high quality recordings. With my subs running 3db hot, I'm guessing the mains will give out before the subs do. But I honestly give out before either :) My career is headed toward the audio recording/engineering world and I can't afford to damage my hearing

We watched the Blue Man Group concert DVD. I took out the SPL meter and it was bouncing around 100-105 with slighter high peaks C-weighted. The super loud stuff was definitely bass, as it wasn't hurting my ears at all. It's crazy how much distortion affects perceived volume.

all great in theory.. but the elephant hiding in the room is compression when it comes to pushing and dynamics .

also don't forget sensitivity

anyway back to the thread

For mids, bigger definitely doesn't mean more capable...

Take a look here: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-tutorials/26293-brief-look-excursion-vs-frequency-various-speaker-sizes.html

Remember that 2 woofers = 2 times the surface, requires 2 times less excursion. The lower the bass, the more excursion required. With 2x 5 inches, in that example, for twin woofers, would probably be less than 3mm excursion for 100dB at 80hz... For 6.5 inches... Like 2mm... And 'we' don't know the max excursion of the drivers used... Could be 10mm for all we know...

Anyhow, bigger helps for bass response, max SPL, but excursion is just as important for output...

It's crazy how much distortion affects perceived volume.


So so so .. true!

Can't say that enough.. first time I heard the seaton sparks I thought to myself that doesn't seem all that loud really.. smooth and comfortable to listen to.. then I tried to talk to the person next to me... and realized that I was yelling which I typically wouldn't have needed to for the volume my brain thought I was hearing.. was an eye opening experience regarding that comment and ironically enough it was watching that same blue man dvd.

Rock on Man.. I dig the setup

So so so .. true!

Can't say that enough.. first time I heard the seaton sparks I thought to myself that doesn't seem all that loud really.. smooth and comfortable to listen to.. then I tried to talk to the person next to me... and realized that I was yelling which I typically wouldn't have needed to for the volume my brain thought I was hearing.. was an eye opening experience regarding that comment and ironically enough it was watching that same blue man dvd.

Rock on Man.. I dig the setup

Risking being OT, but, where/when did you hear Seaton's Sparks?

I'm fascinated by Seaton's designs and hungry to hear from people who've heard/own them. I've got a SubMersive shipping next Wednesday, which may be the first of many Seaton products heading my direction!

Any information would be much appreciated! PM if you'd like... :)

"there is no replacement for displacement"

This is good advice.

Regards,

Risking being OT, but, where/when did you hear Seaton's Sparks?

my living room ;) :cool:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16295981#post16295981
Mark brought them out when I hosted the chicagoland get together a couple months back. I also had a chance to hear the prototypes over a year ago at Art S. get together in Michigan. Since the meet I've added a trio of catalysts to my theater. Feel free to shoot me any questions as I don't want to derail this thread.

Just curious, for those of you who did see it in theaters: what scenes seemed to have the best LFE? Anything stand out in particular?

Just curious, for those of you who did see it in theaters: what scenes seemed to have the best LFE? Anything stand out in particular?

There were several, what stands out in my mind though were the opening credis had some deep stuff and I heard the subs straining on that, it just seemed like foreshadowing of what was to come.

The theater I saw this in has a pretty good set up, its not an Imax but I have seen several movies there and never had a problem. I have seen: Cloverfield (until the shaky hand cam stuff made me want to vomit and I left), The Dark Knight, The Hulk (most recent version with Ed Norton) and Knowing all without a noticeable issue. That the new Transformers flick was causing this many issues was amazing to me.

At the end of the movie I looked at my wife and said "We are going to need better sub's". Her reply was classic, "I know, and probably more of them."

Just curious, for those of you who did see it in theaters: what scenes seemed to have the best LFE? Anything stand out in particular?

Opening intro/scene, prime's slo-mo somersault shooting, forest fight, megatron hits submarine, jetfire walking, scrambling and fall over dirt, sam and mikaela hiding while decepticons stomping around, air strike/bombing at end.

Something bass in those scenes. We will see later what bass(or if any), was when starscream uses EMP.

At the end of the movie I looked at my wife and said "We are going to need better sub's". Her reply was classic, "I know, and probably more of them."

Hold on to her forever!!!

Major spoilers here (but I don't know how to create a spoiler "alert" window?!)...

+1 on the opening credits--there's a frequency spiral down that drops out of hearing for my local theater's system.

Also, I'm thinking that when the chopper is in slo-mo as it passes over Sam's head as his heart is thumping slowly (or stopped) it has the makings of being epic.

We'll see when the BR is out, eh?!

FWIW, the film was fun, but had it's issues like how the dorm chic was not holographic--like all the other transformer "people"--she was like some advanced bot, or something. I thoroughly enjoyed it, even so and can't wait until Nov. with the BR release...

my living room ;) :cool:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16295981#post16295981
Mark brought them out when I hosted the chicagoland get together a couple months back. I also had a chance to hear the prototypes over a year ago at Art S. get together in Michigan. Since the meet I've added a trio of catalysts to my theater. Feel free to shoot me any questions as I don't want to derail this thread.

Excellent! I'll follow up through PM...

Thanks.:)

Its going to be tough to know what the low low end of this movie will be like before someone gets it on blu ray. Unless someone has one of the best commercial theater in the world and sneaks in a laptop and a mic to get some waterfalls.

To believe that a small sub system can come close to reproducing the original low frequency event is foolhardy at best. High level and deep low frequency sounds are high energy events. To think some dinky little audiophile approved 12" subwoofer can even remotely come close to the very ideal of high power, high fidelity reproduction of the original event is foolish. It takes excursion, surface area and power to faithfully reproduce a 16' stop on a pipe organ, or the initial strike and resonance of a low tuned tympani. The vast overwhelming majority of audio systems, including most "hifi" systems (of which I've sold and set up countless thousands over the past 29 years) are flat out inadequate.
I recently played with a JL Fathom which was part of a calibration I did for a client about a month ago...what a disappointment that was! Particularly for the $3000 he spent on it. Talk about much ado about nothing. Guy could have put a Danley TH-50 in there (and probably will) which is actually a real subwoofer.


Here we go again! Which JL Fathom sub was it F110,F112,F113? Please explain how was it a "disappointment" specifically? Was it output,sound quality,lack of low end? So you are a JL audio dealer and bad mouthing the product you supposedly sell? Oh wait, weren't you a JL audio dealer at one time and now you are not a dealer correct? I switched to JL audio subs, two dual F113's in a 20x15 dedicated room and it moves more than enough air. The "excursion" you mention of over 3.5 inches alone is impressive. Danley makes excellent subs that sound good and work very well for less money. No argument there. If I didn't own JL audio I was seriously looking into getting two Danley subs due to the owners praising them. Let me ask you this. Do you issue the "clients" paycheck? Why should you care then? It's not your money. A little jealous maybe? I hate it when people bad mouth a product they will never own and then rationalize in their mind what "good subwoofer" should be.Rant over.

Sharp1080,
I think Soundood was commenting on the guy insulting anyone who uses big subs because it just gives us too much bass. I think the JL is a brilliant little sub with more clean output than anything in its size. But when it comes to real headroom, you need a lot more displacement. To get true reference bass reproduction at the seats in a decent sized room, you'd need a lot of JL F113s. Just my opinion, though. I could be wrong.

Sharp1080,
I think Soundood was commenting on the guy insulting anyone who uses big subs because it just gives us too much bass. I think the JL is a brilliant little sub with more clean output than anything in its size. But when it comes to real headroom, you need a lot more displacement. To get true reference bass reproduction at the seats in a decent sized room, you'd need a lot of JL F113s. Just my opinion, though. I could be wrong.


I am just tired of dealers bad mouthing one product they don't sell to sell the product they carry. I am not a dealer BTW. I agree with soundood that the Danley's are great subs. Maybe if he had not started bashing JL to push his act of selling Danley I would not have taken exception to it. Now if he wants to ship me out a pair of Danley's to audition lets talk. What do you consider a decent sized room? 20x15 is too small? I'm already hitting over 110 DB in my room. Have you heard the JL's? Back on topic I will also buy this disc as soon as it is available.

Sharp1080,
Yes I have heard the F113 in a dedicated room, very similar to your size. It was great, but would not satisfy my craving for 120db peaks of clean bass. 110db is great, but 120db is amazing. In my life, the most I've felt is 113db, and I still wanted more. Dolby reference is 105db from the speakers and 115-120db from the sub(s).

And yes, once I decide on a blu ray player, I will definitely buy this movie. I'm hoping it will be audio nirvana;)

It was an F-113. For the price he paid (WAY overpriced imho), it wasn't even remotely close. Room is 18' x 25' with 9' ceilings. It got low and was pretty tight, but just didn't grab hold of the room and make it shudder with the type of power or speed I am used to. For that kind of money and hype, I was disappointed and was expecting much more. Just didn't deliver on the value end of things. And by the way, a Seaton Submersive will romp all over the JL and I DON'T sell that.

a Seaton Submersive will romp all over the JL.

That seems to be the general concensus about the Submersive vs pretty much all subs out there:D

Sharp1080,
I think Soundood was commenting on the guy insulting anyone who uses big subs because it just gives us too much bass. I think the JL is a brilliant little sub with more clean output than anything in its size. But when it comes to real headroom, you need a lot more displacement. To get true reference bass reproduction at the seats in a decent sized room, you'd need a lot of JL F113s. Just my opinion, though. I could be wrong.

I don't know, Soundood clearly made a very general blanket statement, and it was quite a bold and obvious dig at JL in particular. I would gladly take a JL Fathom sub for my theater, and I'm quite sure it would have no problems, whatsoever, pressurizing my small 12 x 11 x 7.5 theater. I guess some here believe we all have huge auditoriums for HT's.:rolleyes: I'm as much a believer in headroom as anyone else here, but let us take a moment to snap back to reality...

Well since we are bragging about peak levels top 180 DB from an M60-A1 tank?:D

Well since we are bragging about peak levels top 180 DB from an M60-A1 tank?:D

Ha haa! Just before I die, it would be a great way to lose my hearing;)

Yeah, I thought the same thing in the theaters for the first Transformers movie. Then I got the DVD and was like, "wtf happened?". I'm not holding my breath this time.

The bass in the first one is SICK on my system!!

The 2nd one will be even more incredible...its all bass, all action....LOVE IT!!!

I can't wait to feed my 4 Subwoofers and 3 Buttkickers this movie!! ^_^

Has anyone read anything official from the sound mixers/engineers about the sound?

Has anyone read anything official from the sound mixers/engineers about the sound?

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen sound designed on Meyer Sound HD-1s.
www.meyersound.com
Click on the link with the above title.

I think I liked The Watchmen better than transformers 2. I just think its more quality bass than uber amount. For those who've seen the watchmen think back to the night owl's flying machine on top of the jail. That was some good bass! Dont get me wrong I still like alot of bass. But only time will tell once they both reach Blu-ray.

Transformers 2 was awesome. I heard both good and bad viewer reviews about it, but I left the theatre more than satisfied about the storyline, action scenes, and LFE content.

*spoilers*
One scene in particular where the big earth vacuum robot used 5-6 big construction machnes in formation- my levi pants leg quivered during that scene. Never experienced that before (it's just too hot to wear long pants at home in SouthFlorida :D ). I was throughly satisfied with the storyline and the fight scenes. And although the addition of the "fallen" storyline and characters were not (to my knowledge) part of the animated series, it was not far fetched or seemed out of place. The fight scenes were impressive. Optimus get on bad. True to the animated series. This would be one hot BD to get.

I think I liked The Watchmen better than transformers 2. I just think its more quality bass than uber amount. For those who've seen the watchmen think back to the night owl's flying machine on top of the jail. That was some good bass! Dont get me wrong I still like alot of bass. But only time will tell once they both reach Blu-ray.

I also enjoyed Watchmen. I found it refreshing that it was truly geared for adults. It does have some good bass.

Another film with pretty good bass is "Knowing".

The bass in the first one is SICK on my system!!

The 2nd one will be even more incredible...its all bass, all action....LOVE IT!!!

I think I got one of the HD-DVDs with wimpy bass. There was a thread about it, but I didn't really follow it and find out what the outcome was. Guess I'll have to pick up the blu-ray and see what I'm missing. The Iron Man trailer at the end of the disc had WAY more LFE than the entire Transformers movie.

Iron Man has great bass!

Iron Man has great bass!

Yes. Yes it does:D.

Iron Man has great bass!

I really like the jericho scene. Good deep rumble.

Ok, so I went into the theater and met with the projection manager. He told me some interesting things about the bulbs used in the projectors, but this story is about the audio. At the end of the movie, he took me behind the screen and we climbed the scaffolding about 15ft up to the plattform where the sub resides. The box is C shaped with six 18" drivers total, 3 on each side with the drivers facing each other and has a 2kw external amp. All speaker levels were set to 0 including the sub. For reference, -1 on their processor level control, equals -3db.

The SPL meter was set to C weighting and fast response. The highest bass peak measured was 114db, with plenty of bass between 104db to 110db throughout the film.

I don't want to spoil the movie for anyone, so all the details of where I got each reading are in the spoiler box. I measured almost every bass moment in the film. Hope they give you an idea of what to expect when we get this bad boy on blu ray;)


IMAX opening sequence that let's you know you're in an IMAX theater;)
108db

Opening sequence up to the title transformation.
110db peak

First fight China
Big Decepticon with giant wheel transforms and punches the ground. Highest peak of the movie.
114db
Optimus parachutes down from the plane.
106db
Fights with the monster Decepticon.
109db

Sam and Megan on phone. I took this as a reference to what normal speaking levels were at.
70db-75db

Bumblebee fighting the household appliances and destroying half the house.
104db

Optimus voice during military talk.
80db-96db

All spark retrieval. Some of the shots from the jaguarbot(don't know what it's called) on the government building holding a piece of the allspark.
104db

Megatron rescue
Diving
105db
Spark in chest
109db
Surfacing destroying the aircraft carrier
107db
Landing on the moon of Saturn the Fallen is on
107db

Fembot blows up door in the bedroom and when she enters the library.
106db

Starscream's and Megatron's footsteps in warehouse when they captured Sam and his friends.
105db

Battle to save Sam in warehouse where Optimus jumps over everyone while shooting. It felt like there will be some very deep bass.
105db-111db

Forest
First part of fight 103db-109db
Second part or fight 107db
Optimus gets killed and as he's falling there is some really deep bass.
106db-113db

Decepticons crash landing from space onto the aircraft carrier.
104db-107db

Ancient Blackbird thransformer
Transformation.
104db-106db
Falls down
104db-108db

Blackbird warp travel
Taking off from the field with the planes.
108db
Crash landing in Egypt or Jordan(can't remember which one).
108db-110db

Starcream
Shoots at bumblebee while they're driving to Optimus.
104db
EMP burst to knock out communication links.
105db

Devastator
Transformation
103db-110db
Sucktion and battle battle with twins.
103db-106db

Sam and Mikaela in the Arabic house. The footstep of the Decepticons and the house being blown up.
109db

Bumblebee fights red Decepticon usind the wheel belt as a whip.
103db-105db

The Jordan army helicopter crash.
105db-107db

Sam running from the blasts. Sounds like a heart beating.
104db

Scorpion blasts out of ground to attack Blackbird Autobot.
104db-106

Devastator killed by the secret super gun on battleship.
102db-104db

Fighter jet drops around 10 bombs on the Decepticons as the Autobots run for it. Huge explosion!
104db-110db

Fallen teleports in and takes matrix from Optimus's chest.
106db-107db

Fallen on the pyramid using his anti-gravity power to raise all the army vehicles into the air, then drops them. Sounds like a really good mix of bass frequencies!
105db-110db

Optimus vs Fallen
106db peaks

There can never be too much bass. :D

There can never be too much bass. :D

Agreed, as long as it makes sense;)

Unfortunately the theatre I saw it in had no subwoofers operating - the entire sub track went unreproduced.

The movie sounded like #$@!.

Thus I won't hear it reproduced properly until the BD drops…

Unfortunately the theatre I saw it in had no subwoofers operating - the entire sub track went unreproduced.

The movie sounded like #$@!.

Thus I won't hear it reproduced properly until the BD drops…

I'd want my money back! That's a rip off. How much do they charge for a movie?

Unfortunately the theatre I saw it in had no subwoofers operating - the entire sub track went unreproduced.

The movie sounded like #$@!.

Thus I won't hear it reproduced properly until the BD drops…

The same thing happened to me, unfortunately. I'm hoping when I see it in IMAX tomorrow it'll be at least a little better.

<Sarcasm alert!>

how can it have good bass? It was mixed in a system with a 2x10" sub and a mere 450 watts peak . . . with a published FR of 29 - 135 Hz +/1 4 dB! http://www.meyersound.com/pdf/products/ultraseries/ums-1p_ds.pdf

Woefully inadequate!



Or . . .

The SPL meter was set to C weighting and fast response. The highest bass peak measured was 114db, with plenty of bass between 104db to 110db throughout the film.

Thanks for taking the time to record all the bass peaks. Much appreciated.

Just noticed you had the SPL meter on fast response. What's the effect of fast response vs slow? Because often times I see people using the latter for SPL readings.

You're welcome jchong. I enjoyed doing it.

In my experience, slow response just gives you more time to see the measurement, but usually does not hit the highest peaks. It does let you see the peaks that are sustained for a little longer. With fast response, you have to be really alert to get the readings right, but really short bursts will show up which is what I wanted. I didn't take my eyes off the SPL meter during any action scene so I actually saw very little of the movie.

I'm going to go again and ask him to run the sub at +2 to see how it feels. This will be even more fun since I'll be able to watch the movie and get pounded by the action sequences. If my calculations are correct, the 114db moment will become 120db:D

I think I liked The Watchmen better than transformers 2. I just think its more quality bass than uber amount. For those who've seen the watchmen think back to the night owl's flying machine on top of the jail. That was some good bass! Dont get me wrong I still like alot of bass. But only time will tell once they both reach Blu-ray.

Tuesday for Watchmen!!!! Can not wait to crank it up in my HT room :D

Slow response averages the sound over a longer time, which does indeed have the effect of reducing the peak levels. Fast lets you see at least some of the more transient peaks. BUt it sure is harder to accurately track the very peak that you see in that mode with dynamic sound sources. I'm not convinced that either a mortal spl meter or mortal eyes can display or see the shortest and often loudest transients, which may last less than 1/20 of a second.

Slow response averages the sound over a longer time, which does indeed have the effect of reducing the peak levels. Fast lets you see at least some of the more transient peaks. BUt it sure is harder to accurately track the very peak that you see in that mode with dynamic sound sources. I'm not convinced that either a mortal spl meter or mortal eyes can display or see the shortest and often loudest transients, which may last less than 1/20 of a second.

If you want to see a really accurate display of power all you need to do is put a 0.01 ohm resistor in series with the amp and speaker and then use an osciloscope to monitor the voltage across the resistor. Any decent O'scope can eaisly see transients of a micro second or less so 50ms would be a piece of cake.

Years ago, long before AVR's, I had a Pioneer stereo receiver with two blue floresent displays to indicate power on both channels. The first bar in the graph was something like 1mW and the last bar was, something like 300W. It gave you a great appreciation for the fact that you do NOT need a lot of power to play at cassual levels but the power demand increases VERY fast as you turn up the volume. When listening at lower levels at night time when you don't want to disturb anybody it was not uncommon to barely see the bar graph tick over at all with power in the 1mW range and yet the sound was still easily heard. I wish modern amps/AVR's had a display mode to show this kind of information, but I guess they don't want the average buyer to know how little power they need most of the time.


Brian

You're welcome jchong. I enjoyed doing it.

In my experience, slow response just gives you more time to see the measurement, but usually does not hit the highest peaks. It does let you see the peaks that are sustained for a little longer. With fast response, you have to be really alert to get the readings right, but really short bursts will show up which is what I wanted. I didn't take my eyes off the SPL meter during any action scene so I actually saw very little of the movie.

I'm going to go again and ask him to run the sub at +2 to see how it feels. This will be even more fun since I'll be able to watch the movie and get pounded by the action sequences. If my calculations are correct, the 114db moment will become 120db:D
Lucky, I wish I knew the theater manager... I'd love to get them to bump up the bass for this movie. It just wasn't there for me, even in IMAX. :confused:

If you want to see a really accurate display of power all you need to do is put a 0.01 ohm resistor in series with the amp and speaker and then use an osciloscope to monitor the voltage across the resistor. Any decent O'scope can eaisly see transients of a micro second or less so 50ms would be a piece of cake.

Years ago, long before AVR's, I had a Pioneer stereo receiver with two blue floresent displays to indicate power on both channels. The first bar in the graph was something like 1mW and the last bar was, something like 300W. It gave you a great appreciation for the fact that you do NOT need a lot of power to play at cassual levels but the power demand increases VERY fast as you turn up the volume. When listening at lower levels at night time when you don't want to disturb anybody it was not uncommon to barely see the bar graph tick over at all with power in the 1mW range and yet the sound was still easily heard. I wish modern amps/AVR's had a display mode to show this kind of information, but I guess they don't want the average buyer to know how little power they need most of the time.


Brian

We try to teach people daily on here by using the following Watts vs dB table

2W = 3dB gain
4W = 6dB gain
8W = 9dB gain
16W = 12dB gain
32W = 15dB gain
64W = 18dB gain
128W = 21dB gain
256W = 24dB gain
512W = 27dB gain

Like you said, it does not take much for the power to spike up and you are right to post that post that people do not realize they do not use that much power. Most people listen to music or movies below 90dB with 15dB peaks they only need about 32 Watts


btw, cool votage measuring tip! Thank you!

Ezcl,
It all started with me complaining that the sound was crap during a number of movies. I am lucky though;)

Penngray,
I try to explain that to people all the time. High efficiency speakers are the way to go for a real theater like experience. It's great that sub manufactures like Mark Seaton, Danley, ED and others are using more efficient drivers to allow for much more dynamic sound across the FR.

I can't wait for this to arrive on blu ray. I'm still trying to figure out which player offers the best PQ and AQ. Oppo seems to be up there plus all the other options they offer.

I think this soundtrack will have some amazing stuff below 15hz.

Slow response averages the sound over a longer time, which does indeed have the effect of reducing the peak levels. Fast lets you see at least some of the more transient peaks. BUt it sure is harder to accurately track the very peak that you see in that mode with dynamic sound sources. I'm not convinced that either a mortal spl meter or mortal eyes can display or see the shortest and often loudest transients, which may last less than 1/20 of a second.




The RS Digital SPL meter will store the peak SPL reading in memory. You don't even have to watch the meter during the monitoring period.

Slow response is used for calibration. Fast is used for most everything else.

I just played around with The Incredible Hulk, and I measured a lot of 117 to 120 dB bass peaks on my RS Digital SPL meter when the meter was set to MAX.

I just played around with The Incredible Hulk, and I measured a lot of 117 to 120 dB bass peaks on my RS Digital SPL meter when the meter was set to MAX.

Looks like I really do listen at fairly low levels. Just borrowed a friend's CM-140 SPL meter and tested with Kung Fu Panda. Normal dialogue is about 60 dBC with bass peak (Skidoosh scene) at about 98 dBC. Volume is at -20 dB on my receiver. I'm hardly giving my sub a workout :p

Looks like I really do listen at fairly low levels. Just borrowed a friend's CM-140 SPL meter and tested with Kung Fu Panda. Normal dialogue is about 60 dBC with bass peak (Skidoosh scene) at about 98 dBC. Volume is at -20 dB on my receiver. I'm hardly giving my sub a workout :p

You and me both...I put ear plugs in to get the 120 dB tests :D

Going out at noon to get the Watchmen :D

Time to test the IB on that one....I seldom get to use it any more :eek:

You and me both...I put ear plugs in to get the 120 dB tests :D

Going out at noon to get the Watchmen :D

Time to test the IB on that one....I seldom get to use it any more :eek:

I liked Watchmen. It is a superhero movie that is truly for adults. It also has some very good bass moments.

I liked Watchmen. It is a superhero movie that is truly for adults. It also has some very good bass moments.

Thanks, I have waited a long time now to see it.


I have some new subs Im building (again) but I won't wait from them to watch this one.

Looks like I really do listen at fairly low levels. Just borrowed a friend's CM-140 SPL meter and tested with Kung Fu Panda. Normal dialogue is about 60 dBC with bass peak (Skidoosh scene) at about 98 dBC. Volume is at -20 dB on my receiver. I'm hardly giving my sub a workout :p



That is a nice SPL meter. Did you use the MAX hold function? If not, then your SPL readings are not peak readings.



galaxy-audio-check-mate-cm-140-spl-meter (http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/features/2925/galaxy-audio-check-mate-cm-140-spl-meter.html)

Well, I just got an early Christmas gift... I just viewed ROTF in my home theater, with only the DTS audio 1.5 mps, not even the dts-ma... All I can say after I say that I was right, was you better be running your subwoofer (s) flat, or this movie will destroy them. If I even knew how to create a waterfall chart, I would be documenting the entire movie. It is literally an onslaught of every frequency that we know and love. The pinnacle of the first TF was the ironhide flip, and there are about 10 scenes that rival/beat this scene, just that come to mind. If you are in the area of northeast ohio, or you have already witnessed what I just did, then you seeing it again with a 3.3 with turbo and an mbm make be believe that I never need to upgrade my system. I have never watched a movie, at any level where I wanted to turn it down because I thought I would damage my hearing. At reference level, what I saw was unmatched from any movie, and at any time. I hope you can enjoy this asap, as I have. Any questions, just let me hear them.

WOW

Well, I just got an early Christmas gift... I just viewed ROTF in my home theater, with only the DTS audio 1.5 mps, not even the dts-ma... All I can say after I say that I was right, was you better be running your subwoofer (s) flat, or this movie will destroy them. If I even knew how to create a waterfall chart, I would be documenting the entire movie. It is literally an onslaught of every frequency that we know and love. The pinnacle of the first TF was the ironhide flip, and there are about 10 scenes that rival/beat this scene, just that come to mind. If you are in the area of northeast ohio, or you have already witnessed what I just did, then you seeing it again with a 3.3 with turbo and an mbm make be believe that I never need to upgrade my system. I have never watched a movie, at any level where I wanted to turn it down because I thought I would damage my hearing. At reference level, what I saw was unmatched from any movie, and at any time. I hope you can enjoy this asap, as I have. Any questions, just let me hear them.

WOW


I look forward to this title, as my Epik Phoenix and Mfw 15 together provide me with ample headroom past reference.

I can now hit 125db uncorrected at the listening position during LFE moments...without strain. :eek:

I sure hope you are right except I am not worried about turning anything down.

I sure hope you are right except I am not worried about turning anything down.
You're going to crush your head one of these days with that setup of yours.;)

You're going to crush your head one of these days with that setup of yours.;)

This will be the movie to do it...

It won't happen. According to my spl meter the one movie that pins the meter the most(past 126db's) is Star Wars 2 with everything equal. I have not measured all the great bass movies yet but I did measure WOTW.

It won't happen. According to my spl meter the one movie that pins the meter the most(past 126db's) is Star Wars 2 with everything equal. I have not measured all the great bass movies yet but I did measure WOTW.
Well, it's certainly a nice looking rig you have there.

Thank you.

Well, I just got an early Christmas gift... I just viewed ROTF in my home theater, with only the DTS audio 1.5 mps, not even the dts-ma... All I can say after I say that I was right, was you better be running your subwoofer (s) flat, or this movie will destroy them. If I even knew how to create a waterfall chart, I would be documenting the entire movie. It is literally an onslaught of every frequency that we know and love. The pinnacle of the first TF was the ironhide flip, and there are about 10 scenes that rival/beat this scene, just that come to mind. If you are in the area of northeast ohio, or you have already witnessed what I just did, then you seeing it again with a 3.3 with turbo and an mbm make be believe that I never need to upgrade my system. I have never watched a movie, at any level where I wanted to turn it down because I thought I would damage my hearing. At reference level, what I saw was unmatched from any movie, and at any time. I hope you can enjoy this asap, as I have. Any questions, just let me hear them.

WOW

...In Napoleon Dynamite voice----> LUCKY!!!!

How did you get a copy so early? I've got a buddy that got a copy of wolverine from a friend that works in a cd/dvd/blu ray store about 2 weeks early, but not a month out. I'm wanting to see about all this bass. It should be good.

I liked the movie(did I say I am easy to please) so liking a movie with bass is a treat, like the Dark Night and The Incredible Hulk. I did like the first Transformers as well.

...In Napoleon Dynamite voice----> LUCKY!!!!

How did you get a copy so early? I've got a buddy that got a copy of wolverine from a friend that works in a cd/dvd/blu ray store about 2 weeks early, but not a month out. I'm wanting to see about all this bass. It should be good.

It came out late last night on torrent/usenet, its no coincidence his early christmas gift arrived this morning.

...In Napoleon Dynamite voice----> LUCKY!!!!

How did you get a copy so early? I've got a buddy that got a copy of wolverine from a friend that works in a cd/dvd/blu ray store about 2 weeks early, but not a month out. I'm wanting to see about all this bass. It should be good.

I guess, I know the right people...:) pm me if you have any ideas on how to experience this...

ccarzoo,
Do you have an SPL meter? Compare what you're getting to what I got at my local IMAX. Here are the levels again.

Ok, so I went into the theater and met with the projection manager. He told me some interesting things about the bulbs used in the projectors, but this story is about the audio. At the end of the movie, he took me behind the screen and we climbed the scaffolding about 15ft up to the plattform where the sub resides. The box is C shaped with six 18" drivers total, 3 on each side with the drivers facing each other and has a 2kw external amp. All speaker levels were set to 0 including the sub. For reference, -1 on their processor level control, equals -3db.

The SPL meter was set to C weighting and fast response. The highest bass peak measured was 114db, with plenty of bass between 104db to 110db throughout the film.

I don't want to spoil the movie for anyone, so all the details of where I got each reading are in the spoiler box. I measured almost every bass moment in the film. Hope they give you an idea of what to expect when we get this bad boy on blu ray;)


IMAX opening sequence that let's you know you're in an IMAX theater;)
108db

Opening sequence up to the title transformation.
110db peak

First fight China
Big Decepticon with giant wheel transforms and punches the ground. Highest peak of the movie.
114db
Optimus parachutes down from the plane.
106db
Fights with the monster Decepticon.
109db

Sam and Megan on phone. I took this as a reference to what normal speaking levels were at.
70db-75db

Bumblebee fighting the household appliances and destroying half the house.
104db

Optimus voice during military talk.
80db-96db

All spark retrieval. Some of the shots from the jaguarbot(don't know what it's called) on the government building holding a piece of the allspark.
104db

Megatron rescue
Diving
105db
Spark in chest
109db
Surfacing destroying the aircraft carrier
107db
Landing on the moon of Saturn the Fallen is on
107db

Fembot blows up door in the bedroom and when she enters the library.
106db

Starscream's and Megatron's footsteps in warehouse when they captured Sam and his friends.
105db

Battle to save Sam in warehouse where Optimus jumps over everyone while shooting. It felt like there will be some very deep bass.
105db-111db

Forest
First part of fight 103db-109db
Second part or fight 107db
Optimus gets killed and as he's falling there is some really deep bass.
106db-113db

Decepticons crash landing from space onto the aircraft carrier.
104db-107db

Ancient Blackbird thransformer
Transformation.
104db-106db
Falls down
104db-108db

Blackbird warp travel
Taking off from the field with the planes.
108db
Crash landing in Egypt or Jordan(can't remember which one).
108db-110db

Starcream
Shoots at bumblebee while they're driving to Optimus.
104db
EMP burst to knock out communication links.
105db

Devastator
Transformation
103db-110db
Sucktion and battle battle with twins.
103db-106db

Sam and Mikaela in the Arabic house. The footstep of the Decepticons and the house being blown up.
109db

Bumblebee fights red Decepticon usind the wheel belt as a whip.
103db-105db

The Jordan army helicopter crash.
105db-107db

Sam running from the blasts. Sounds like a heart beating.
104db

Scorpion blasts out of ground to attack Blackbird Autobot.
104db-106

Devastator killed by the secret super gun on battleship.
102db-104db

Fighter jet drops around 10 bombs on the Decepticons as the Autobots run for it. Huge explosion!
104db-110db

Fallen teleports in and takes matrix from Optimus's chest.
106db-107db

Fallen on the pyramid using his anti-gravity power to raise all the army vehicles into the air, then drops them. Sounds like a really good mix of bass frequencies!
105db-110db

Optimus vs Fallen
106db peaks

Well, I just got an early Christmas gift... I just viewed ROTF in my home theater, with only the DTS audio 1.5 mps, not even the dts-ma... All I can say after I say that I was right, was you better be running your subwoofer (s) flat, or this movie will destroy them. If I even knew how to create a waterfall chart, I would be documenting the entire movie. It is literally an onslaught of every frequency that we know and love. The pinnacle of the first TF was the ironhide flip, and there are about 10 scenes that rival/beat this scene, just that come to mind. If you are in the area of northeast ohio, or you have already witnessed what I just did, then you seeing it again with a 3.3 with turbo and an mbm make be believe that I never need to upgrade my system. I have never watched a movie, at any level where I wanted to turn it down because I thought I would damage my hearing. At reference level, what I saw was unmatched from any movie, and at any time. I hope you can enjoy this asap, as I have. Any questions, just let me hear them.

WOW

Maybe you need to ask Santa again because the TrueHD version is out. :D

Maybe you need to ask Santa again because the TrueHD version is out. :D

I am mad at santa, because that movie is in dts-ma, not truehd...

I am mad at santa, because that movie is in dts-ma, not truehd...

Well I wouldn't know since clearly I don't have it otherwise I wouldn't be making that mistake. It's just based on what I've read on the net.

If you really have the blu ray of this movie are you set up for spectrum lab? We would like to see some waterfalls if you can do it.

I'm dying to hear this movie at home. :D

If you really have the blu ray of this movie are you set up for spectrum lab? We would like to see some waterfalls if you can do it.

no spectrum lab or spl meter, my friend is borrowing it to set up his ht... All I can say is that there are multiple parts that absolutely shake my bones it is so impressive. This is the first movie that I feel that the mbm was not a wasted purchase. How do I go about a spectrum lab.??

Spectrum lab is a free software. If you have a blu ray player on your pc you should be able to run it through that way. If not, you can always run a rca out from the lfe out on your blu ray player or receiver to the pc.

I would post a link to spec lab, but I am on my phone. Will try to in a bit. Its a bit tricky to work (I haven't got it going, but I think its my sound card and not the program) but it shouldn't be too horrible to get running.

Spectrum lab is a free software. If you have a blu ray player on your pc you should be able to run it through that way. If not, you can always run a rca out from the lfe out on your blu ray player or receiver to the pc.

I would post a link to spec lab, but I am on my phone. Will try to in a bit. Its a bit tricky to work (I haven't got it going, but I think its my sound card and not the program) but it shouldn't be too horrible to get running.

Ok, I can run my dvd to my pc using an rca out to the microphone in on the laptop, right? then run the program and pick out specific scenes?

Ok, I can run my dvd to my pc using an rca out to the microphone in on the laptop, right? then run the program and pick out specific scenes?

yep. Here's a download link. (http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=7682) There may be a better version, but I just did a quick search.

Just finished watching the DTS version of this about 30 min ago and my brain is still vibrating. I'm pretty new to the home theater thing and had quite a small budget when choosing components so I'm only running two ASW-8's. Thankfully my room is also quite small (10ftx12ft) so it's not a huge deal, anyway this movie just wrecked shop. It put the DTS-HD version of The Hulk and Ironman to shame. I was going to pick up the A2-300 from eD but honestly? I don't think I need it at this point. I know I'm missing everything below 33Hz but I don't think this little room could handle any more LFE.

I think I'll mess around a bit more tomorrow after my neighbors leave for work to see what more I can get out of my system.

Just finished watching the DTS version of this about 30 min ago and my brain is still vibrating. I'm pretty new to the home theater thing and had quite a small budget when choosing components so I'm only running two ASW-8's. Thankfully my room is also quite small (10ftx12ft) so it's not a huge deal, anyway this movie just wrecked shop. It put the DTS-HD version of The Hulk and Ironman to shame. I was going to pick up the A2-300 from eD but honestly? I don't think I need it at this point. I know I'm missing everything below 33Hz but I don't think this little room could handle any more LFE.

I think I'll mess around a bit more tomorrow after my neighbors leave for work to see what more I can get out of my system.

Getting below 33hz is HUGE, so I suggest upgrading the sub.

More than one person with this on blu ray nearly a month before its released?? Sounds like decent work on a high def camera in a theater to me.

Post some waterfalls and I may start to believe... If it looks genuine.

Thankfully my room is also quite small (10ftx12ft) so it's not a huge deal,...

I have about the same size room you have and I am using a single Seaton SubMersive. Trust me, you are going to want to get louder and lower:p.

Well, I just got an early Christmas gift... I just viewed ROTF in my home theater, with only the DTS audio 1.5 mps, not even the dts-ma... All I can say after I say that I was right, was you better be running your subwoofer (s) flat, or this movie will destroy them. If I even knew how to create a waterfall chart, I would be documenting the entire movie. It is literally an onslaught of every frequency that we know and love. The pinnacle of the first TF was the ironhide flip, and there are about 10 scenes that rival/beat this scene, just that come to mind. If you are in the area of northeast ohio, or you have already witnessed what I just did, then you seeing it again with a 3.3 with turbo and an mbm make be believe that I never need to upgrade my system. I have never watched a movie, at any level where I wanted to turn it down because I thought I would damage my hearing. At reference level, what I saw was unmatched from any movie, and at any time. I hope you can enjoy this asap, as I have. Any questions, just let me hear them.

WOW

:eek:

Is Oct 20th here yet???

More than one person with this on blu ray nearly a month before its released?? Sounds like decent work on a high def camera in a theater to me.

Post some waterfalls and I may start to believe... If it looks genuine.

Nope just a leaked Blu Ray rip. Most movies get leaked two to four weeks prior to retail release. I Wouldn't be caught dead watching a cam release no matter the "quality".

More than one person with this on blu ray nearly a month before its released?? Sounds like decent work on a high def camera in a theater to me.

Post some waterfalls and I may start to believe... If it looks genuine.

The Blu-ray rip is all over the net if you know where to look. Blu-ray got leaked all the time but never this early before.

yep. Here's a download link. (http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=7682) There may be a better version, but I just did a quick search.

ok, downloaded, and installed... now how do you use this???

TF2 has a lot of 30hzish bass in the first 40 minutes. Nothing too low yet.

Go to the "master list of DVD with bass" sticky and copy the settings from one of the other users. There are links close to the top of the thread. It may take a few minutes to get right if your soundcard settings are correct.

ok, downloaded, and installed... now how do you use this???

Well, if you want to save some hair's in your head, let me do it.:D Just kiddin, it would be interesting to see your charts of that dts 1,5mb version to compare my dd version, but we need same settings, before that i need to go sleep, so good night and good luck with that spectrum lab. :)


Oh, i forget to mention that it sounded great(especially surrounds, but LFE won't break any records in depth and amount(like wotw, cf, tih, pulse did:(). I think there was still one deep moment in opening and some others>30hz stuff.

If anyone can get a waterfall of that opening scene where the camera looms over the native tribesfolk and reveals the early transformers building that pyramidal structure, that's be great. I remember that being one of the parts that made me go O_O in regards to bass.

If anyone can get a waterfall of that opening scene where the camera looms over the native tribesfolk and reveals the early transformers building that pyramidal structure, that's be great. I remember that being one of the parts that made me go O_O in regards to bass.

The bass there was ok, but not terribly deep. In one of the first scenes where the audi gets cut in half i was seeing 125+db peaks lol. I only watched about the first 10 minutes in my HT just to see what kind of levels there were. I was seeing a lot of 110-120db readings, and a few 125+ peaks. I'll have to watch the entire thing with a meter out later. I'd make some waterfalls but the only laptop I have with a line in is a mac.

The bass there was ok, but not terribly deep. In one of the first scenes where the audi gets cut in half i was seeing 125+db peaks lol. I only watched about the first 10 minutes in my HT just to see what kind of levels there were. I was seeing a lot of 110-120db readings, and a few 125+ peaks. I'll have to watch the entire thing with a meter out later. I'd make some waterfalls but the only laptop I have with a line in is a mac.

Are you running your sub hot?

Well, based off what you just said makes this a 5 star movie. All the 5 star movies have hit 120-126+ dB's on my meter. BTW Star Wars 2-AOTC should be 5 stars if not already. It hit over 126 dB's(what my meter goes to) 4 times with the opening sequence alone. The original Transformers only could muster 122 dB's just to compare. I am now even more anxious.

If anyone can get a waterfall of that opening scene where the camera looms over the native tribesfolk and reveals the early transformers building that pyramidal structure, that's be great. I remember that being one of the parts that made me go O_O in regards to bass.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8299/tf2waterfall.th.png (http://img132.imageshack.us/i/tf2waterfall.png/)

thanks a lot mike. not low but still deep and loud.

Are you running your sub hot?

that was at reference level with +3db on my sub channels.

I thought reference level should have max 115db peaks in the LFE? How do you get 120db+? Are your speakers calibrated for 85db?

that was at reference level with +3db on my sub channels.

Wow! So with your subs calibrated at 0 with your speakers, you're still getting over 120db. Nice! :cool:

The bass there was ok, but not terribly deep. In one of the first scenes where the audi gets cut in half i was seeing 125+db peaks lol. I only watched about the first 10 minutes in my HT just to see what kind of levels there were. I was seeing a lot of 110-120db readings, and a few 125+ peaks. I'll have to watch the entire thing with a meter out later. I'd make some waterfalls but the only laptop I have with a line in is a mac.

What's your sub setup and how big is your room? That's pretty impressive considering you're nearly matching what MKTheater is doing and he's got 8-18" sealed subs with I think close to 5000 watts of power (may be wrong about the power).

I thought reference level should have max 115db peaks in the LFE? How do you get 120db+? Are your speakers calibrated for 85db?

I thought max level was 115 db too. That was until someone told me about having my main speaker set to small re-routing all the bass to the subwoofer which puts potential peaks to 121 db from the lfe channel.

mike is that graph a culmination of all the channels or just lfe? if the latter, can you do all the channels? i think the peaks were in the surrounds.

He is running dual eD A7s-650's. That sounds about right for those subs. I talked to eD about the 13 inch driver and he said it would take 11 of the 13's to equal my 8 18's in spl. Mine are turned down and pin the meter past 126 db's so probably well over 130 db's for me. I am running 1200 watts per sub which is 9,600 watts. My theater is 16,800 watts but I am sure I am not using anything near that. If I used all of my amp power for my mains I would hit 133 db's and I only puch them to 105 db's per speaker. The LFE is more fun up higher though.

mike is that graph a culmination of all the channels or just lfe? if the latter, can you do all the channels? i think the peaks were in the surrounds.

Yeah it is all channels. I just ran TF2 on my desktop and used SpectrumLab to analyse it in real time. I don't think I have an option that way of choosing which specific channels to analyse. If I wanted to get just the LFE I think I would have to hook up a bluray player to my PC.

I thought max level was 115 db too. That was until someone told me about having my main speaker set to small re-routing all the bass to the subwoofer which puts potential peaks to 121 db from the lfe channel.

Thanks. I thought that all channels were included in that 115db but I see now that the standard gives the LFE 10db more headroom.

http://www.paradigm.com/images/reference/news/SUB1_SUB2_Fact_Sheet-OnlineVersion.pdf

how good is this?

here is a review "The most powerful subwoofer in the world" fed back please

http://www.soundstage.com/equipment/paradigm_sub2.htm

I cant wait for this one on Blu.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_wD4aaKKog

What you guys think?

2012 should have sick LFE.

Looking forward to that movie (2012). Doubt I will see it at the theater though.

I haven't been to a theater in 10 years.

Bill

http://www.paradigm.com/images/reference/news/SUB1_SUB2_Fact_Sheet-OnlineVersion.pdf

how good is this?

here is a review "The most powerful subwoofer in the world" fed back please

http://www.soundstage.com/equipment/paradigm_sub2.htm

Has anyone checked this out as yet

I haven't been to a theater in 10 years.

Bill

I took my wife to see "angels and demons" this summer and I went to see "I hope they serve beer in hell" a couple weeks ago. Before that it was 7 years since the last time I went to a movie.

I took my wife to see "angels and demons" this summer and I went to see "I hope they serve beer in hell" a couple weeks ago. Before that it was 7 years since the last time I went to a movie.

sorry to hear ;)

I go all the time for comparisons. My local THX theater is actually really impressive from 25hz and up. It is why I own what I have now.

2012 should have sick lfe.

+1

I personally hate the new trend in films where the bass track is just overly heavy, overbearing and ridiculous. I thought the HULK with Ed Norton was already a bit overkill. Now I like bass in movies, but when it is exaggerated, it just gets on my damn nerves...

80hz

I go to theater all the time. Right now, my home theater is not even close to what my Cineplex has to offer. Once I finish my room, that will definitely change, but I'll still go.

Not sure if this was discussed, but Walmart will have an exclusive version of Transformers 2. This version will have extended IMAX scenes.

He is running dual eD A7s-650's. That sounds about right for those subs. I talked to eD about the 13 inch driver and he said it would take 11 of the 13's to equal my 8 18's in spl. Mine are turned down and pin the meter past 126 db's so probably well over 130 db's for me. I am running 1200 watts per sub which is 9,600 watts. My theater is 16,800 watts but I am sure I am not using anything near that. If I used all of my amp power for my mains I would hit 133 db's and I only puch them to 105 db's per speaker. The LFE is more fun up higher though.

I have to agree with you about the Star Wars Soundtrack, I am pegging my meter on it also. I do have a question. What was the air temperature at the time you recorded your readings?

I don't know.