Toshiba Chief Hints At Launching Blu-Ray Disc Ops (http://www.nni.nikkei.co.jp/e/fr/tnks/Nni20090624DA4J6246.htm)
Toshiba Corp. (6502) President Atsutoshi Nishida did not rule out the possibility of selling DVD recorders using the Blu-ray Disc format when addressing shareholders at the firm's general meeting here Wednesday.

"It makes no sense to decide not to enter the Blu-Ray market simply because we lost the DVD-format war. We cannot change the fact that we lost, but we would like to keep our options open," he said.

Toshiba pushed for global adoption of its HD-DVD format, but failed to gain sufficient support from major U.S. movie studios. This prompted the firm to pull out of its HD-DVD operations in spring 2008, declaring at that time that it would not handle Blu-ray products.

But Nishida's latest remark appears to indicate that Toshiba is considering reversing that decision in light of the significant growth in the market for these products.

Never say never, regardless of what some say around here. I thought Nishida was gone by now?

Never say never, regardless of what some say around here. I thought Nishida was gone by now?

He's leaving today.

He's leaving today.

So on his last day he opens the door to bluray speculation.:confused:

What a coincidence (I'm sure).;)

Out with the old.....

When did they add the "-" to HD-DVD?

When did they add the "-" to HD-DVD?

The hyphen is not the issue here, Dude. ;)

The hyphen is not the issue here, Dude. ;)

But that hyphen really tied the room together....;):D

So on his last day he opens the door to bluray speculation.:confused:


Now the new CEO can actually announce BD support without looking like he's reversing the old CEO (who is staying as Chairman) and make him lose face. Which is something very important for Japanese executives.

Now the new CEO can actually announce BD support without looking like he's reversing the old CEO (who is staying as Chairman) and make him lose face. Which is something very important for Japanese executives.

Hey, you don't have to tell me.....from last month......

Thread: "When do you think Toshiba will release a stand alone Blu-ray player?" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1150066)
When is Nishida "bowing out" again?

Oh that's right:

TOKYO -- Facing the prospect of a record loss and the possible need for additional capital to shore up a battered balance sheet, Toshiba Corp. said its chief executive will step down in June and be succeeded by a veteran of the company's nuclear-power business.

Norio Sasaki, the 59-year-old head of Toshiba's infrastructure systems group, will become the next president and CEO in June, pending shareholder approval. The current CEO, Atsutoshi Nishida, 65, will become the company's chairman as part of the management change. Tadashi Okamura, the current chairman, will become an adviser to the board.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123736435351268601.html

So in a few days the old guy is out. Wonder if anything will change....
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16544272&postcount=66

In response to all of those people that said "never".....

With Blu-ray players selling for as little as $130.00 now I'm not sure what advantage they think they can bring to the market, but I'm game to find out.

With Blu-ray players selling for as little as $130.00 now I'm not sure what advantage they think they can bring to the market, but I'm game to find out.

I don't think it's so much what they can bring to the market, but what the market can bring to them. Others have said that perhaps they're losing sales on TVs that they might otherwise get, where customers would rather buy a BD player *and* a TV from the same maker. I mean, personally I could care less - I have a Panny BD player and a Sony TV, brand loyalty doesn't matter to me, but some people are big on that. Even if those potential customers do buy their TVs, they could still get a good amount of BD player sales by covering both bases. It seems like a market ripe for them to get into, and it would certainly make sense for them.

Blu-ray Recorder Sales Hit Record Levels

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/535351.html

The average sales price has begun to come down. In the first week of June 2008, the average sales price of Blu-ray disc recorders was between 110,000 -- 120,000 JPY. By the third week of October, it dropped to between 100,000 -- 110,000 JPY.

That's $1,049 to $1,154 in USD

Not too much of a stretch to understand why Toshiba would be interested in this market. And the UK is opening up as a market for these SAT HD DVR BD recorders also.

Nishida said that BD recorders, in particular, appear to be a viable option. They are quite successful in Japan.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=2974

I wonder if this means they have hit a stumbling block with their plans to move every thing to flash and other related media? No point in propping up BD if your plan is to stab it in the back as soon as possible, unless you think you can do more damage from the inside than the outside.

DVD format war?

So what happened to the magical upconverting tech that was supposed to make regular dvds almost as good as Blu-rays?

DVD format war?

So what happened to the magical upconverting tech that was supposed to make regular dvds almost as good as Blu-rays?

It's Toshiba. Over promising and under delivering. I'm trying to think of an electronics company who fail so bad at making a decent product than these guys. Samsung, once a laughing stock is light years ahead of Toshiba now.

It's Toshiba. Over promising and under delivering.

Kinda reminiscent of the promises made concerning the interactivity for BR (remember "Limited Interactivity" vs "Superior Interactivity"?) At least HDi worked all the time, as opposed to the Java crap BR is saddled with (BDA: "It will work.... we promise... with the next FW upgrade.")
I'm trying to think of an electronics company who fail so bad at making a decent product than these guys. Samsung, once a laughing stock is light years ahead of Toshiba now.
The company you refer to in the second sentence fulfills the first. In some non-bargain markets, Samsung is still a laughing stock.

It's Toshiba. Over promising and under delivering. I'm trying to think of an electronics company who fail so bad at making a decent product than these guys. Samsung, once a laughing stock is light years ahead of Toshiba now.

I disagree. If they can produce a BR player that performs as well as most of their HD DVD players I would take a look. That's not to say they won't come up against the same BD Java issues the other CE's have. But they supported their players fantastically.

This is like the game of "telephone!" :p

Nishida said that BD recorders, in particular, appear to be a viable option. They are quite successful in Japan.

This is like the game of "telephone!" :p

I think most of us are just making the natural assumption that if Toshiba was to make/market a BR recorder a player wouldn't be far behind.

DVD format war?

So what happened to the magical upconverting tech that was supposed to make regular dvds almost as good as Blu-rays?

When the Circuit City in my area went out of business they had a load of these players and could not sell them even at $80.00. Toshiba used to produce innovative products but as written above, they seem to have lost their way and now the Samsung brand seems to be way ahead of Toshiba.

I think most of us are just making the natural assumption that if Toshiba was to make/market a BR recorder a player wouldn't be far behind.

Making/selling a $1000+ STB versus a $300 BD player? That's quite a leap.

When did they add the "-" to HD-DVD?It is a Japanese to English translation so there are a few minor grammatical errors. Note though that the source of this information is Nikkei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihon_Keizai_Shimbun) which is one of the largest media companies in Japan.


Not too much of a stretch to understand why Toshiba would be interested in this market.Blu-ray recorders have sold at a faster rate in Japan than DVD recorders did and this article notes that Blu-ray recorders sold over 122,000 units in June of 2008 (http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/148727/bluray_disc_rapidly_gaining_popularity_in_japan.html). Also just to mention this but the article notes that Blu-ray recorders without hard drives could be found in the summer of 2008 for as low as $420 so there was a wide range of Blu-ray recorders being sold in Japan.


This is like the game of "telephone!"Lee, do you still believe that Toshiba will never release a stand alone Blu-ray player?

Lee, do you still believe that Toshiba will never release a stand alone Blu-ray player?

Not at this time. ;)

This is like the game of "telephone!" :p

Are there any Japanese CE makers selling BD recorders in Japan and not selling BD players in USA/Europe?

Are there any Japanese CE makers selling BD recorders in Japan and not selling BD players in USA/Europe?

I don't know. Are there?

Toshiba does very well in the laptop business. One of their successes.

I would think that their laptops could benefit from the addition of a BD drive and get better results ($ wise) then trying to sell a BD player for $299 and start out at the bottom of the pile (CEM's).

Doesn't Toshiba jointly own TSST with Samsung and one of the drives is a BD drive?

Doesn't Toshiba jointly own TSST with Samsung and one of the drives is a BD drive?Toshiba 51%, Samsung 49%. They do not list a BD drive on the site.

It's Toshiba. Over promising and under delivering. I'm trying to think of an electronics company who fail so bad at making a decent product than these guys. Samsung, once a laughing stock is light years ahead of Toshiba now.

Please go and praise Samsung in the "Dual Format Players" section and see what kind of response you get.

For the record, I still don't see Toshiba releasing a standalone Blu-Ray (only) player in the US market this year. If they ever release one, I see them taking LG's route and releasing a combo of Blu-Ray and streaming.

The funny thing is that I dont think Toshiba is as emotional about this, as some here believes.

They will release BD when it makes sense from an economical viewpoint.

And its here it will get complicated. Because there is so many factors to consider it almost impossible
to do it with the rather small amount of data we have here.

I think a Toshiba BD standalone has a greater value for them, in just having it in their product range
then it has a value in profits. The same goes with their laptops etc.

But this also must be taken into what they actually make with BD not succeding.

I dont know what they make on royalties with the DVD format today, but I guessing they have some very
bright guys sitting down an calculate on all variables.

To BD or not to BD, thats the question.

1.i wonder if the shareholders are putting pressure on toshbia.
2.options open for what?

DVD format war?

So what happened to the magical upconverting tech that was supposed to make regular dvds almost as good as Blu-rays?

the reviews i read said bottom line they don't do what they say they do.

I don't know. Are there?

Toshiba does very well in the laptop business. One of their successes.

I would think that their laptops could benefit from the addition of a BD drive and get better results ($ wise) then trying to sell a BD player for $299 and start out at the bottom of the pile (CEM's).

Doesn't Toshiba jointly own TSST with Samsung and one of the drives is a BD drive?

that would make the most sense for them

...If they ever release one, I see them taking LG's route and releasing a combo of Blu-Ray and streaming.

I said that a while back. I think they will release a player in 2010 that uses the Cell processor and:

Upscales
Streams
plays BDs

They will really downplay the BD part and promote the upscaling ability.

Just my humble opinion.

I said that a while back. I think they will release a player in 2010 that uses the Cell processor and:

Upscales
Streams
plays BDs

They will really downplay the BD part and promote the upscaling ability.

Just my humble opinion.

Then they'd placing themselves in the same market as the $40 upconverters.

That didn't work with XDE last year - what makes you think it'd work two years later?

Are there any Japanese CE makers selling BD recorders in Japan and not selling BD players in USA/Europe?

hitachi maybe? did they have a bd recorder? I know they had a BD camcorder.

Please go and praise Samsung in the "Dual Format Players" section and see what kind of response you get.


As an owner of the UP5000 there is nothing wrong with it other than the fact that Samsung doesn't support the firmware well. If you spent a lot on the player you might have a complaint about it. I own 80+ Blu-rays and nearly 300 HD DVDs (the main reason I bought the player was to avoid having to have two units in a cabinet where there was no room). I have not encountered anything it wouldn't play, some longer load times on some Blu-rays, but in the end it played everything so far. It also is a very good upconverter, save for the fact it won't pillarbox 4:3 movies (I have very few and enough other players that can do it if needed). I watched Naked Gun last night, and I was favorably impressed at how the player did it vs. some of my other units. I usually use my A2 for upconverting, as it does a decent job and is a cheap player, plus I have several extras. The UP5000 blows it away with its Reon. So those who criticize this player are generally those that have issues with it, early units with bad drives seem to be the most common problem. Those without issues, like me, think of it favorably.

hitachi maybe? did they have a bd recorder? I know they had a BD camcorder.

Mitsubishi's AVCREC Blu-ray recorders stuff HD content onto standard DVDs

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/18/Mitsubishis-avcrec-blu-ray-recorders-stuff-hd-content-onto-stand/

Does Mits make BD players?

What difference does it make if Toshiba enters into BD or not?Well some people find this subject interesting and want to discuss it.


And Who cares!I do, and it looks like you do as well since you cared enough to vote in this poll (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1150066) and post in this thread.

Mitsubishi's AVCREC Blu-ray recorders stuff HD content onto standard DVDs

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/18/Mitsubishis-avcrec-blu-ray-recorders-stuff-hd-content-onto-stand/

Does Mits make BD players?

They don't have any player-only models available for the Japanese market at this time, and neither does Hitachi. Both do have BD recorders now. However, Panasonic and Sony both released player-only models for the foreign (US/Europe) market in 2006 while simultaneously releasing only BD recorders for their domestic market, so there's a small chance that Toshiba might follow the same strategy.

This announcement from Toshiba doesn't really surprise anyone in Japan. As I've said before, given the way the BD recorder market has exploded here, it was only a matter of time before Toshiba backed off from its "No Blu-ray" policy. Strictly from a PR/corporate image standpoint, Toshiba has been under tremendous pressure from its home market consumers to put a BD recorder model of some kind out. My guess is that they'll do it before the end-of-year bonus season this coming December.

Whenever you go into big box Japanese CE retailers like Kojima Denki, Bic or Yodobashi Camera, one of the first things you see are stacks of BD recorders from every major CE manufacturer...except Toshiba. Outside, BD recorder billboards and train ads are everywhere. Toshiba's total absence from these ads is very conspicuous, and has not gone unnoticed by the public.

Does anyone here really think the MPAA will allow stand-alone BD recorders in the US, unless they are so crippled you will only be able to copy your old home movies? Besides, DVD recorders are not exactly jumping off the shelves in the US.

Does anyone here really think the MPAA will allow stand-alone BD recorders in the US, unless they are so crippled you will only be able to copy your old home movies? Besides, DVD recorders are not exactly jumping off the shelves in the US.

Speaking for myself - I believe the hope was that the USA would get the same STB's that Japan and now the UK have/are getting (SAT only):

SAT or CBL 2 Tuner HD DVR with BD recorder/player.

It would allow you to move recording off of the HDD and onto a BD for archival purposes.

Why?
Well I am curious to see if/when Toshiba starts supporting Blu-ray and as such I find this news to be interesting.

Your interest puzzles me unless you want to buy a Toshiba BD player if one ever comes out. If not, I don't see the sense of caring at all.

If you are not interested then why are you even posting in this thread?

Not sure if I saw there here

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/tks-take/toshiba-go-blu

Toshiba to Go Blu?

By Thomas K. Arnold | Posted: 24 Jun 2009
tarnold@questex.com,

Interesting buzz today about Toshiba potentially going Blu-ray. Apparently outgoing Toshiba president Atsutoshi Nishida, in a company shareholder meeting, said the Japanese consumer electronics giant may finally have a change of heart regarding the victorious high-definition optical disc format.

"It makes no sense to decide not to enter the Blu-ray market simply because we lost the DVD format war," he is reported to have said. "We cannot change the fact that we lost." (Check out our story by Erik Gruenwedel by clicking here.)

If true, it's about time! I've always felt Toshiba was acting irrationally by refusing to go Blu after the bitter defeat of its HD DVD format in January 2008. I hate cliches, but this truly was a case of cutting off one's nose to spite the face. Toshiba is a great company — all my DVD players have been Toshiba — and the company probably lost a lot of momentum, and business, by sitting on the sidelines while Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer and others were busy producing Blu-ray Disc players, especially since Toshiba's first course of action was to rev up its DVD "upconverters," a silly ploy that only made it look foolish and petty. "The other high-def format won and ours lost, so you know what? Maybe we don't need any high-def format! DVD is just fine! Take that, Blu-ray!"

Until last year, I've always considered Toshiba a first-class CE company. Let's hope Toshiba does the right thing and starts producing Blu-ray Disc players, like just about everyone else.



http://www.homemediamagazine.com/toshiba/toshiba-joining-blu-ray-bandwagon-16170

Toshiba Joining Blu-ray Bandwagon?


By Erik Gruenwedel | Posted: 24 Jun 2009
egruenwedel@questex.com


Toshiba Corp., which spent more than $1 billion pushing HD DVD in a losing cause, reportedly is considering supporting erstwhile high-definition format rival Blu-ray Disc.

Atsutoshi Nishida, chairman and former CEO of the Japanese consumer electronics giant, said June 24 in Tokyo the company is considering backing Blu-ray in an effort to keep “our options open,” according to a post on Japanese site Nikkei.com.

Toshiba, which formally ceased HD DVD product shipments in March 2008 following a lengthy and acrimonious battle with Sony-backed Blu-ray, said at the time that it had no interest in entering the BD market.

It did, however, leave open the door to possibly revisiting HD packaged media.

“The real mass-market opportunity for high-definition content remains untapped, and Toshiba is both able and determined to use our talent, technology and intellectual property to make digital convergence a reality,” Nishida said at the time.

Toshiba reportedly is interested in BD recorders and has focused on flash memory and upgraded standard DVD players since the end of the format war. The company lost a record $3.6 billion for the fiscal year ended March 31.

Seems that Lee is right.. I don't see them building BD standalones.. IMO companies are losing money so that's really not logical. They could make some money selling BD Recorders which they obviously confirm.

Seems that Lee is right.. I don't see them building BD standalones.. IMO companies are losing money so that's really not logical. They could make some money selling BD Recorders which they obviously confirm.

There is no "opinion" that companies are losing money. Either they are, or they aren't. Back your opinion up with some facts, and it will be worth something. Otherwise, it's just....your opinion. You can have an opinion on the taste of Diet Coke. Some like it, some don't. You can't have an opinion on real world, hard number$. They exist. They are fixed. There is no opinion with numbers.

Show please, show us all -with real world numbers and facts- how companies are losing money building standalone bluray players.

Do you even know how much they cost to build? If you don't, how can your "opinion" possibly be an educated one?

If you are not interested then why are you even posting in this thread?

I'm not! I just don't understand why some others are, hence why I asked the questions.

I said that a while back. I think they will release a (BD) player in 2010 that uses the Cell processor...
Then they'd placing themselves in the same market as the $40 upconverters.

That didn't work with XDE last year - what makes you think it'd work two years later?

So BD players compete with the $40 upconverters? That statement will upset a few people around here. There are already plenty of BD players that stream, upconvert and play BDs. Toshiba will just promote the fact that their player is better at upconverting, and highlight in big text that theirs streams movies...much like LG has been doing for 6 months. Ever look at the LG web page for its BD players? What do they say in giant text?...
http://www.lge.com/us/tv-audio-video/video/LG-blu-ray-dvd-player-BD300.jsp

Notice how "stream" is 3x larger that Blu-ray...much like my example.:D

Speaking for myself - I believe the hope was that the USA would get the same STB's that Japan and now the UK have/are getting (SAT only):

SAT or CBL 2 Tuner HD DVR with BD recorder/player.

It would allow you to move recording off of the HDD and onto a BD for archival purposes.

You mean so you could archive a HD copy of a HD movie or program from cable or sat? That is exactly what the MPAA does not want, which is why even SD DVD recorders don't have useable digital inputs (except for the firewire input to connect with digital cameras). It is already possible to make SD (480i) DVD copies of cable and sat shows and movies, and HD looks surprisingly good when downconverted and copied at 480i (but alas no 5.1 digital audio). Of course there will always be someone with a computer program to.....

You mean so you could archive a HD copy of a HD movie or program from cable or sat? That is exactly what the MPAA does not want, which is why even SD DVD recorders don't have useable digital inputs (except for the firewire input to connect with digital cameras). It is already possible to make SD (480i) DVD copies of cable and sat shows and movies, and HD looks surprisingly good when downconverted and copied at 480i (but alas no 5.1 digital audio). Of course there will always be someone with a computer program to.....

Guess the MPAA has less influence in Japan and the UK cause that is what is being offerred.

Notice how "stream" is 3x larger that Blu-ray...much like my example.:D

That is because the streaming is how LG differentiates its product from the mainline manufacturers.

The fact is that Blu-ray players are becoming something of a commodity category, just as DVD players long ago did.

If they ever release one, I see them taking LG's route and releasing a combo of Blu-Ray and streaming.Streaming is rapidly becoming a standard feature of BD players and many other CE products...

That is because the streaming is how LG differentiates its product from the mainline manufacturers.


But Samsung players do the same thing and Panasonic "Blu-ray players are capable of streaming video from online sources like Amazon and YouTube".

Besides all those and Sony who else is a "mainline manufacturer"? Sharp?
My bet is by the end of the year even sharp will offer that feature.

Streaming is rapidly becoming a standard feature of BD players and many other CE products...

Do all decoder chips on BD players support this, or just the latest ones?

I guess I am asking if there is an extra cost to provide streaming support on a BD 2.0 player.

Streaming is rapidly becoming a standard feature of BD players and many other CE products...

Finding a video player or a video display without built-in streaming support will be the exception this time next year.

Do all decoder chips on BD players support this, or just the latest ones? I guess I am asking if there is an extra cost to provide streaming support on a BD 2.0 player.It's just software, although there may be some licensing fees involved depending on the provider.

Finding a video player or a video display without built-in streaming support will be the exception this time next year.Just wait utill:
Now they only see the message, “Unfortunately, this video is not available on your platform. We apologize for any inconvenience.”

Just wait utill:

That is perfect! Deny a customer something of value, and they will find someone else to provide it. If one service does not want the customer, then certainly another one will.

It's just software, although there may be some licensing fees involved depending on the provider.

Thanks!

Because no hardware changes are needed, I think all of you guys are correct that by the end of the year most 2.0 players will support either Netflix, Amazon, or similar service. I'll be curious to see if Sony follows suit.

This is an interesting story. As a Samsung dual format user, I would definitely give Toshiba a look if their BD player also supported multiple disc formats, especially HD DVD. If anyone can do it well, they should be able to.

My two UP5000s are glitchy, but they work. Samsung firmware support is negligible, and I have had very poor dealings with their phone reps -- so much so that I won't buy from Samsung again.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Toshiba can find a way to continue support for the many HD DVD users around the world.