For people with receivers with analog imputs for multi channel lpcm lossless audio, fustrated by the PS3's lack of compatibility, this might be the adapter we've been hoping for.

Here is a link to the product: http://www.atlona.com/Atlona-HDMI-1.3-Audio-De-Embedder-p-17801.html

Here is an overview: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/cables/atlona-tech-at-hd570

here is a cheaper no-name version: http://www.ambery.com/2hddodtsdihd.html

If anyone has tried any of these please report on how well they work if at all

I do not see how this will give me 7.1 discreet channels. If it converted to seperate RCA out then yes -- but the 3.5 to 2 RCA adapter cannot possibly allow all seven channels to pass through.

My receiver has analog inputs for 7.1 sound -- this does not give me analog outputs to pass through all the channels unless I am missing something.

I had the same reservations as you. Some folks in another thread explained that PC sound cards have similar output jacks as this for multichannel.
My hesitation is that it could easily just pull the same 2 channel pcm that you get is sending lpcm through the optical cable, and send that same 2 channel stereo out of the multiple jacks repeatedly, tricking someone into believeing that the signals are seperate discreet channels (5.1/7.1 instead of 2.0 repeated out of several jacks).
Still if this does what it says it does it would be a good deal, hopefully someone can verify, but I have yet to see a hands-on review

Save the money for a new HDMI receiver.

Im with Brad31. I still fail to see how you get 8 discreet channels of audio out of 4 3.5mm RCA outs. The reciever wants 6 or 8 discreet inputs. NOT 4 outs that have multiple channels of info on them. The RCA 3.5 allow for two channels of Uncompressed audio on them..but this does nothing for the AVR that only wants one channel of Uncompressed audio on it's RCA input. For 200 plus bucks. I'd just save my money until i have double that and get me an Onkyo 605 and be done with it.

I think the idea is you use some y-rca jacks that split the left and right channel, but again I'm not defending the product, just hoping that someone will test it and if it works then great

I think the idea is you use some y-rca jacks that split the left and right channel...

That is correct. Mini-to-2 RCA cables will indeed allow you to get the full 7.1 channels to your AVR. As mentioned, the vast majority of PC sound cards have been set up like this. Some of the more inelegant sound cards even require two mini-to-3 RCA camcorder cables (in addition to one mini-to-2 RCA cable) in order to get 7.1 channels to your AVR.

Save the money for a new HDMI receiver.

I agree. It is wiser to just get an HDMI AVR. A good one really doesn't cost much these days, and it allows you to choose from a plethora of post-processing options.

That is correct. Mini-to-2 RCA cables will indeed allow you to get the full 7.1 channels to your AVR. As mentioned, the vast majority of PC sound cards have been set up like this. Some of the more inelegant sound cards even require two mini-to-3 RCA camcorder cables (in addition to one mini-to-2 RCA cable) in order to get 7.1 channels to your AVR.

I understand thats the IDEA...but thats not discreet audio a Y Spilter doesnt separate left from right, all it does is an even split of the signal contained in the RCA. So using a Y splitter will do nothing in the example of the.1 track. It's not intelligent enough to split the .1 track from the rest of the audio. and the over all effect will be sending full sound spectrum to an input that only wants Low freqs. Y spliters do not cannot split channels. They only split the full signal, and if the full signal contains two channels of audio the out put on each rca after the Y splitter will be half a channel of full audio..but that audio still wont be discreet.

I understand thats the IDEA...but thats not discreet audio a Y Spilter doesnt separate left from right, all it does is an even split of the signal contained in the RCA. So using a Y splitter will do nothing in the example of the.1 track. It's not intelligent enough to split the .1 track from the rest of the audio. and the over all effect will be sending full sound spectrum to an input that only wants Low freqs. Y spliters do not cannot split channels. They only split the full signal, and if the full signal contains two channels of audio the out put on each rca after the Y splitter will be half a channel of full audio..but that audio still wont be discreet.

Uh, what? I'm not sure you understand what is going on in a Y cable.

The signal coming out of the device has two channels out of a 1/8" jack - one channel on the tip, one on the ring. The RCA connectors on the other end of the Y cable receive one channel each, which you would then plug in to your 7.1 analog input.

The audio *IS* discreet.

I agree ndskyz -- I just don't see how it can be doing anything but splitting the same signal two ways.

If a product was released at this price that would truly flow through 7.1 lossless to analog, I would purchase. I will probably eventually upgrade to a blu-ray player with 7.1 analog out - but a year ago when I was looking, there were not many options available. I should probably explore again what is out there. Of course my gaming will not be lossless with a different blu-ray solution.

My outdated receiver was very expensive and $200 will not go far in replacing it with a comparable unit.

If a product was released at this price that would truly flow through 7.1 lossless to analog, I would purchase.

Looking over the specs, that is EXACTLY what this product does.

Uh, what? I'm not sure you understand what is going on in a Y cable.

The signal coming out of the device has two channels out of a 1/8" jack - one channel on the tip, one on the ring. The RCA connectors on the other end of the Y cable receive one channel each, which you would then plug in to your 7.1 analog input.

The audio *IS* discreet.

This is correct.

Looking over the specs, that is EXACTLY what this product does.

I looked over the specs of the no-name one and it looks to be about the same thing. This looks like a more viable solution than the $1,000 units that were around 2 years ago...

Uh, what? I'm not sure you understand what is going on in a Y cable.

The signal coming out of the device has two channels out of a 1/8" jack - one channel on the tip, one on the ring. The RCA connectors on the other end of the Y cable receive one channel each, which you would then plug in to your 7.1 analog input.

The audio *IS* discreet.

I understand now I was thinking of an Full RCA splitter and not the 3.5mm stereo jack. My mistake. But I still maintain at this price point. I'd spend and extra hundred bucks and get a new AVR

Thanks all for your clarifications -- thought the Y-splitter just split the same signal twice. If anyone finds a review on these or tests it themselves, please update this thread.

I understand now I was thinking of an Full RCA splitter and not the 3.5mm stereo jack. My mistake. But I still maintain at this price point. I'd spend and extra hundred bucks and get a new AVR

Well, the "no-name" device is $128 and the Atlona product (I've never heard of them either so no-name carries little weight for me) goes for $219. You cannot find a mid-range HDMI reciever for anywhere close to $300, can you? I think the low end Onkyo 507's are still over $300 but it is a huge feature downgrade from someone who has a $1200 reciever on the shelf now with analog inputs...

Well, the "no-name" device is $128 and the Atlona product (I've never heard of them either so no-name carries little weight for me) goes for $219. You cannot find a mid-range HDMI reciever for anywhere close to $300, can you? I think the low end Onkyo 507's are still over $300 but it is a huge feature downgrade from someone who has a $1200 reciever on the shelf now with analog inputs...

Yeah if you do some shopping around you could. Crutchfield has the Onkyo 507 for 350 right now. Yamaha V465 for 330. So yeah you could if you are looking for entry level AVR. For the person with a 1200 dollar AVR that doesnt do HDMI. With a high end AVR like that. You more than likely have picked up a 250 dollar stand alone Blu-ray player that does on board decoding and has RCA outs.

I personally dont like the Idea of adding more boxes in the digital world the more boxes in between the source and destination the more chance you have on inducing noise into the signal. And when it comes to audio..Im a purist and I cant stand noise on the audio track of any movie I try to watch. But thats just me.

Yep, several ways to get the job done with the HD audio.

Its tough to shell out more $$ when one has a great AVR with analog inputs, but without HDMI.

Then again not everyone can hear the difference anyway.;)

Hi,
The reason why we had used 3.5mm jacks on the outputs is to keep the small unit profile. Each one of the mini outputs corresponds to 2-channel which makes it a true 8 discreet channel converter.
The 3.5mm stereo jack has Tip, Ring and Sleeve. Tip is channel #1, Ring is channel #2 and Sleeve is Ground.

Thank you, please let me know if you have any further questions on The AT-HD570 HDMI Audio De-Embedder

Atlona1:
Thank you for responding.

Gee I don't know save another $100 and just buy a HDMI receiver...there's a thought.

"Its tough to shell out more $$ when one has a great AVR with analog inputs"

You mean once great or you wouldn't be needing a new one.

That would probably depend on how good of an audio processor you have now. Most of our customers currently have very high-end audio processors which they don`t want to change for something lower end.

Thank you

Hi,
The reason why we had used 3.5mm jacks on the outputs is to keep the small unit profile. Each one of the mini outputs corresponds to 2-channel which makes it a true 8 discreet channel converter.
The 3.5mm stereo jack has Tip, Ring and Sleeve. Tip is channel #1, Ring is channel #2 and Sleeve is Ground.

Thank you, please let me know if you have any further questions on The AT-HD570 HDMI Audio De-Embedder

Can you speak to the differences between your product and the one from Ambery?

Gee I don't know save another $100 and just buy a HDMI receiver...there's a thought.

"Its tough to shell out more $$ when one has a great AVR with analog inputs"

You mean once great or you wouldn't be needing a new one.

It must feel great to have such a modern and expensive home setup...I mean you go so far as to advertise it right in your signature. You know what they say about the guy who drives the big, fast, and expensive sports car, right? Well, I doubt a new, expensive, state-of-the-art home theater system will make your weiner any bigger either...

i frankly never heared of Ambery; however we do our box/case design in Taiwan and sometimes when we can`t commit to a very high order for metal/case that company finds others who would purchase the case in order to meet min. qty.

However all of the electronics is proprietary to Atlona. I don`t know what kind of technology they use but i guess it's different as our board cost is higher then Ambery's MSRP.

It must feel great to have such a modern and expensive home setup...I mean you go so far as to advertise it right in your signature. You know what they say about the guy who drives the big, fast, and expensive sports car, right? Well, I doubt a new, expensive, state-of-the-art home theater system will make your weiner any bigger either...

LOL be nice. Expensive is a relative term when it comes to Audio. Some people would say his set up is expensive, and others have ONE SPEAKER that cost more than everything he has. LOL. Its not about stick size too a lot of people.

Back on topic. I can see how this product could be useful to some people. But like I said somebody with a really expensive setup McIntosh, Classe etc Amps and Pre-amps. Why would they Purchase these products when an easier solution, one that is going to be less intrusive to the overall signal can be had for about the same price in a Stand Alone Blu Ray player.

The problem, here, is that most AVR's external inputs cannot be bass managed. So, unless your AVR can bass manage its external inputs (a few do), you can't bass manage. Unless your device can bass manage its MPCM HDMI output (yes, I think some devices actually do this).

Hey, Mike of Altona, is the bitrate and sampling rate absolutely maintained with this device? If I pass a 96kHz/24bit multichannel DVD-A through it as MPCM that is what I will get out of it, right? And 192kHz/24bit stereo DVD-A MPCM?

LOL be nice. Expensive is a relative term when it comes to Audio. Some people would say his set up is expensive, and others have ONE SPEAKER that cost more than everything he has. LOL. Its not about stick size too a lot of people.

Back on topic. I can see how this product could be useful to some people. But like I said somebody with a really expensive setup McIntosh, Classe etc Amps and Pre-amps. Why would they Purchase these products when an easier solution, one that is going to be less intrusive to the overall signal can be had for about the same price in a Stand Alone Blu Ray player.

Personally I would love to keep my PS3 as my primary blu-ray and also so I can get lossless audion in those games that offer it

Back on topic. I can see how this product could be useful to some people. But like I said somebody with a really expensive setup McIntosh, Classe etc Amps and Pre-amps. Why would they Purchase these products when an easier solution, one that is going to be less intrusive to the overall signal can be had for about the same price in a Stand Alone Blu Ray player.I'm not certain that relying on the analog outs of most BR players is necessarily a better option.

My only issue with a product like this is wondering what kind of sound quality you are going to get for only $219 (this being a low volume specialty product). I would be interested in something like this because my Denon 5803 is still an awesome receiver in every way except for the lack of HDMI capability.

Some of those scoffing at those not willing to buy an inexpensive replacement receiver should realize that many people here are using mid to high end equipment and that an inexpensive receiver is not a viable alternative. My receiver for instance is a THX Ultra 2 certified 170 watts x 7 amplifier as well.

I'm not certain that relying on the analog outs of most BR players is necessarily a better option.

Thats entirely debatable. I noticed you said MOST though..lol :p There are a boatload of people who think transporting audio Via HDMI is the worst thing you could ever do to an audio signal. So I guess you have to pick your poison.

Thats entirely debatable. I noticed you said MOST though..lol :pI also said "necessarily". I've learned to cover my butt around here. ;)


There are a boatload of people who think transporting audio Via HDMI is the worst thing you could ever do to an audio signal. So I guess you have to pick your poison.I do not think that anyone would prefer to use a BR player's poorly adjustable analog outputs when they DO have an HDMI capable receiver.

Hey, Mike of Altona, is the bitrate and sampling rate absolutely maintained with this device? If I pass a 96kHz/24bit multichannel DVD-A through it as MPCM that is what I will get out of it, right? And 192kHz/24bit stereo DVD-A MPCM?


Yes, we don`t change the bitrate.

My only issue with a product like this is wondering what kind of sound quality you are going to get for only $219 (this being a low volume specialty product). I would be interested in something like this because my Denon 5803 is still an awesome receiver in every way except for the lack of HDMI capability.

I'll be able to let you know in a week or two. Although I won't be able to comment directly on the Atlona or Ambery, I'm working with another manufacturer on a similar component (except this one has 8x RCA outputs instead of the stereo mini jacks) and expect to have a test unit soon. Note the final application of our unit will be sufficiently different to the Atlona and Ambery products, and won't be sold in competition to these products.

There's at least four companies making such devices, and to the best of my knowledge they're based around a reference design from Silicon Image.

Some of those scoffing at those not willing to buy an inexpensive replacement receiver should realize that many people here are using mid to high end equipment and that an inexpensive receiver is not a viable alternative. My receiver for instance is a THX Ultra 2 certified 170 watts x 7 amplifier as well.

Exactly. Sure having decoding on the player is a fair alternative. The issue arises with each new player you buy, in that you constantly have to hunt around for one with multichannel analog audio out. And in some cases it's simply not available - i.e. the PS3.

Having the decoder as a separate device allows for a multitude of products to use the same decoder, saving money in the long term by both allowing one to use their existing receiver, amps, preamp and by using it with multiple future sources.

Provided your not sacrificing quality then it's a winner, and there'll be a market for it.

FWIW in my opinion HDCP is one of the biggest ****-ups in the industry. It's put small manufacturers back 10 years, caused thousands of headaches for consumers and CE developers alike, and hasn't in any way attained its goal of stopping piracy of HD sources. HD capture equipment was far to expensive at the release of HDCP, and now that it is affordable, direct digital rips (by passing of AACS, BD+ and HDCP) are all readily available.

I'm working with another manufacturer on a similar component (except this one has 8x RCA outputs instead of the stereo mini jacks) and expect to have a test unit soon.I know it would be asking a WHOLE lot, but no chance of bass management is there?

How about more than one HDMI input?


There's at least four companies making such devices, and to the best of my knowledge they're based around a reference design from Silicon Image.Well, they're all about 2 years behind. Or more.

Mike of Altona,
I was under impression that such this device would have difficulties to extract the high res. audio from the HDMI stream coming from DVD-A player due to CSS compliancy.
I have ordered two similar to your devices from:
http://www.allaboutadapters.com/hdautooptoco.html

No luck, it takes the 16/44.1 kHz audio from CD and passes to SPDIF coax output, but refuses to get the 24/96 KHz high res. PCM audio.
I do not know why, is it either my DVD-A player is following strongly CSS compliancy or I have some other issues.

I have posted about that in other avsforum thread.

Sorry for this question, did you actually check your device with actual DVD-A player connected to your device?

[QUOTE=bordo32;16714798]Mike of Altona,
I was under impression that such this device would have difficulties to extract the high res. audio from the HDMI stream coming from DVD-A player due to CSS compliancy.
I have ordered two similar to your devices from:
http://www.allaboutadapters.com/hdautooptoco.html

No luck, it takes the 16/44.1 kHz audio from CD and passes to SPDIF coax output, but refuses to get the 24/96 KHz high res. PCM audio.
I do not know why, is it either my DVD-A player is following strongly CSS compliancy or I have some other issues.
QUOTE]

Yep, the device you had purchased is not designed to be a de-embedder and keep all the channels. It's main use to splitt 2-channel audio to a separate receiver if TV doesn`t have speakers. Mainly used in commercial applications.

Well, they're all about 2 years behind. Or more.

Agreed, but better late than never.

I know it would be asking a WHOLE lot, but no chance of bass management is there?

Yes, but that will be beyond the functionality of the HDMI decoder. PS do not hang around for our product it's part of a much larger system and I doubt it will be sold separately. I'll go check some reference designs to see if they have bass management, as that'll give you a better indication if such a product will come out in the future.

How about more than one HDMI input?

Yes, sample unit has two HDMI inputs, we're gunning for up to 6 hdmi inputs in the final product (still debating if its worth going over 4 inputs), but realistically the first gen unit may stick with two, simply to get to market in a reasonable time.

Gee I don't know save another $100 and just buy a HDMI receiver...there's a thought.

"Its tough to shell out more $$ when one has a great AVR with analog inputs"

You mean once great or you wouldn't be needing a new one.

Yes, that is a thought, but not shared by everyone.;)

Hi,
The reason why we had used 3.5mm jacks on the outputs is to keep the small unit profile. Each one of the mini outputs corresponds to 2-channel which makes it a true 8 discreet channel converter.
The 3.5mm stereo jack has Tip, Ring and Sleeve. Tip is channel #1, Ring is channel #2 and Sleeve is Ground.

Thank you, please let me know if you have any further questions on The AT-HD570 HDMI Audio De-Embedder

Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to post here on AVS about your companys product.

And nice chatting with you on the phone about it also.

Mike of Altona,
Wow, seems to me good news.
I will need to take a look at AT-HD570.

I know that some one previously was asking that already.
Just want to be sure before pulling a trigger and ordering this device:

1. Can you confirm please that stereo PCM 24/96 kHz or 192 kHz from DVD-A player will be “de-embedded” from HDMI and passed through Optical output with its natural frequency and bit depth?

2. Isn’t TosLink is limited to a lower frequency than PCM 24/192 kHz?
How about the jitter and all HDMI jitter related issues?

3. Is your de-embedder re-clocking the audio signal? In other words is the TosLink output HDMI related jitter free?

4. Is TV set or any other HDMI device need to be connected to the AT-HD570 HDMI output and powered on all the time in order to get the HDMI handshaking and “audio de-embedding” in process?

The problem, here, is that most AVR's external inputs cannot be bass managed. So, unless your AVR can bass manage its external inputs (a few do), you can't bass manage. Unless your device can bass manage its MPCM HDMI output (yes, I think some devices actually do this).

That's what I was mostly wondering about. My AVR cost over $2,000 when it was released (which thankfully supports multichannel PCM over HDMI), yet it can't re-digitize its multichannel analog input for bass management, room correction, etc. Even the basic fixed bass management schemes that you see with many Blu-ray players won't do for most properly calibrated systems.

Hey, Mike of Altona, is the bitrate and sampling rate absolutely maintained with this device? If I pass a 96kHz/24bit multichannel DVD-A through it as MPCM that is what I will get out of it, right? And 192kHz/24bit stereo DVD-A MPCM?
My experience with unprotected multichannel HDMI audio has been that it will not pass sampling frequencies greater than 48 kHz and it will not pass word sizes greater than 16 bits, see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16473819#post16473819. This is in accordance with HDCP; see http://www.digital-cp.com/files/static_page_files/D6724AFD-9B02-A253-D8D2FE5B1A10F7F7/HDCP_License_Agreement_082207.pdf sections 1.8, 3.3.1.1, 3.3.2.2.2, 3.3.2.4.2. Apparently the limitation is imposed at the source, not the receiver.

Anyone familiar with this device (http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%204x2_7_1audio.html)? It is more expensive but it does more. I was thinking of going with the Altona (or its "clone") before coming across this one. I have no desire to replace my non-HDMI receiver if it isn't necessary. I've even been willing to live with the lossy toslink connection from my PS3 to my receiver. However, this device from Octava (never heard of them before finding the website on a google search), would seem an ideal solution for anyone who has a receiver that would be quite expensive to replace with the same general quality.

With this device, you can have 4 HDMI sources in, 2 out (like a switchbox, not a splitter). It also has 7.1 channel RCA analogue outputs (and an input), along with toslink (no coax though). My receiver DOES re-digitize the analogue MCH input for bass management and time alignment purposes (levels have to be set in the player, though), so this could solve a bunch of minor issues for me. I could use my PS3 as an SACD MCH player, thus freeing up my current Marantz player for living room duty. I would get the lossless MCH audio from BDs. I could use my Cambridge Audio 540D for DVD-A playback (currently used for region-free DVD playback). I would also have access to the lossless MCH audio from my HD DVD player (yes, I'm still using it and I have over 160 titles, so it's not going away anytime soon).

This device would unlock functionality from my HD DVD player, my PS3, free up a player for another system and extend the life of my receiver for at least another 5 years. For 350$, this is not a bad price. Especially if we consider that an equivalent receiver with HDMI to my current one would be in the neighbourhood of 1200-1500$ AND there is no guarantee that I could use the far more flexible BM/TA of my current receiver's MCH connection with my 540D or Marantz (for DVD-A playback--each player has a more limited BM/TA system). If I wanted to have proper BM/TA for DVD-A, I'd need a new DVD-A player, so that cost would be added to the receiver.

Mike of Altona,
Wow, seems to me good news.
I will need to take a look at AT-HD570.

I know that some one previously was asking that already.
Just want to be sure before pulling a trigger and ordering this device:

1. Can you confirm please that stereo PCM 24/96 kHz or 192 kHz from DVD-A player will be “de-embedded” from HDMI and passed through Optical output with its natural frequency and bit depth?

Yes


2. Isn’t TosLink is limited to a lower frequency than PCM 24/192 kHz?
How about the jitter and all HDMI jitter related issues?

We pass hdmi signal without processing it.


3. Is your de-embedder re-clocking the audio signal? In other words is the TosLink output HDMI related jitter free?

We do not re-clock optical out. I am not sure what you mean but both audio and video outputs don`t have any additional artifacts. We keep video signal the same as before entering the box.


4. Is TV set or any other HDMI device need to be connected to the AT-HD570 HDMI output and powered on all the time in order to get the HDMI handshaking and “audio de-embedding” in process?

We do suggest to keep HD570 powered-on at all the time.

Mike, thanks for your comments. Now is almost clear.
My question #4 was about necessity to keep something connected an alive to the HDMI output connector. In other words is it possible to have only DVD-A player with HDMI output and your AT-HD570 powered on in order to get audio re-embedding process working? Or something needs to be attached to the AT-HD570 "HDMI output" connector and working, like TV set???

Anyone familiar with this device? It is more expensive but it does more. I was thinking of going with the Altona (or its "clone") before coming across this one. I have no desire to replace my non-HDMI receiver if it isn't necessary. I've even been willing to live with the lossy toslink connection from my PS3 to my receiver. However, this device from Octava (never heard of them before finding the website on a google search), would seem an ideal solution for anyone who has a receiver that would be quite expensive to replace with the same general quality.

The only negatives I see with that device is not built in decoding (DD, DTS, DDTHD, DTSMA). It appears limited to PCM audio - which one can easily work with, does suggest its using an older, less functional or different chipset.

The price is getting up there, but there are some real pros, built in switch with IR control. Dual HDMI out - useful for some people.

I want to chime in here. These devices are a fantastic idea for those that need them and are unwilling/unable to step up to a newer HDMI AVR.

But I will agree with some that if your going to be needing to spend $150 - 200 plus, then it might be wise to put the money towards a new AVR. I'm not saying that the older ones are bad (when in fact many are very good), it's just that the newer AVR's are coming with many more post processing affects and Auto Room EQ features such as Audyssey (which can make a huge difference in sound quality if you've never experience it, more so than just getting lossless sound). I would have seriously considered one of these options had I known about them a few years ago. But last year I sold my H/K 335 for about $150ish IIRC. And I picked up a Denon 1909 for $499. So for an additional $350 I got HDMI Audio with Audyssey to boot. So now I have better room EQ software, HDMI Lossless Audio inputs, and no need for an adaptor. Sweet!

Now, obviously with higher end AVRs that have a much larger starting value, prices will drop more from year to year, making the sting of an upgrade a little more painful. But if the AVR is a really good one, then make it a pre-pro (if possible, I hear this alot over in the AVS AMP section) and get a lower end HDMI AVR to marry to the older AVR and gain the new HDMI audio decoding features.

To each his own I guess. But I'll take Audyssey and a new AVR over an Adapter to get lossless sound on an AVR that doesn't have Audyssey (or equivalent up-to-date feature) any day. For many, however, it will all still depend on how much you like/love your old AVR and how much you can get for it on the open market and provided the budget can allow for an upgrade. ;)

I want to chime in here. These devices are a fantastic idea for those that need them and are unwilling/unable to step up to a newer HDMI AVR.

But I will agree with some that if your going to be needing to spend $150 - 200 plus, then it might be wise to put the money towards a new AVR. I'm not saying that the older ones are bad (when in fact many are very good), it's just that the newer AVR's are coming with many more post processing affects and Auto Room EQ features such as Audyssey (which can make a huge difference in sound quality if you've never experience it, more so than just getting lossless sound). I would have seriously considered one of these options had I known about them a few years ago. But last year I sold my H/K 335 for about $150ish IIRC. And I picked up a Denon 1909 for $499. So for an additional $350 I got HDMI Audio with Audyssey to boot. So now I have better room EQ software, HDMI Lossless Audio inputs, and no need for an adaptor. Sweet!

Now, obviously with higher end AVRs that have a much larger starting value, prices will drop more from year to year, making the sting of an upgrade a little more painful. But if the AVR is a really good one, then make it a pre-pro (if possible, I hear this alot over in the AVS AMP section) and get a lower end HDMI AVR to marry to the older AVR and gain the new HDMI audio decoding features.

To each his own I guess. But I'll take Audyssey and a new AVR over an Adapter to get lossless sound on an AVR that doesn't have Audyssey (or equivalent up-to-date feature) any day. For many, however, it will all still depend on how much you like/love your old AVR and how much you can get for it on the open market and provided the budget can allow for an upgrade. ;)
All fair points. In my situation, it's a matter of two things. Either I can spend the nearly 2000$ that will guarantee I will have the same functionality for DVD-A I currently have, with the added benefit of Audyssey (I would need to spend, taxes incl., about that much to get an equivalent quality receiver AND a new DVD-A player with HDMI output as my current player is analogue only--but my current receiver does BM/TA on its MCH analogue inputs, unlike 99% of available AVRs today, apparently) OR I can spend 350$ (plus shipping) for a device that unlocks the lossless audio of both my HD DVD player and my PS3 (each of which only sends out LPCM anyway, so no worries about decoding) and also leaves my perfectly fine DVD-A player in the loop without having to replace it. I have room treatments and a parametric EQ for my sub and while they are not as elegantly simple a solution as Audyssey, painstaking placement and settings have made it pretty good. If I were setting up in a new room, then I would go with a new receiver--but the work is done for the room I'm in now. Also, I need the dual HDMI output, and receivers with two outputs are not available, AFAIK, at anywhere near 350$.

I've not yet decided which way to go (and I won't be doing anything until the fall) but 350$ vs. approx. 2000$ seems an easy choice at the moment.

If I were setting up in a new room, then I would go with a new receiver--but the work is done for the room I'm in now. Also, I need the dual HDMI output, and receivers with two outputs are not available, AFAIK, at anywhere near 350$.

I've not yet decided which way to go (and I won't be doing anything until the fall) but 350$ vs. approx. 2000$ seems an easy choice at the moment.About the 2 HDMI outs on an AVR not gonna happen soon and for sure not at the lower end AVRs. Their making them all 5 to 6 in and 1 out now. But if that was a concern, HDMI switchers/spliters are the way to go. AFAIK you can get a pretty cheap 2 out HDMI from monoprice. I still think getting a pretty reasonably low/mid AVR mixed with a HDMI split/switch to join with your current AVR will accomplish may of the same things and bring more options to the table for you, but yes in your situation, the lower cost is probably the more economical choice.

The whole notion of combining the words "analog" and "lossless" in the same sentence makes no sense to me.

The whole notion of combining the words "analog" and "lossless" in the same sentence makes no sense to me.

Why? So many people on such high horses...

The whole notion of combining the words "analog" and "lossless" in the same sentence makes no sense to me.

LOL really.. You do realize that at some point in this digital world that all that great info in a lossless digital format will AT SOME POINT have to be converted to an analog signal. Speakers/Ears/AMPS dont like digital sound....at all.

I already have a splitter (I would move it upstairs to the living room). My goal for an upgrade is in about 5 years (after which my current AVR would have given me ten years of service) and it is to go to separates. At that time, I'll get something like the Integra DTC 9.9 or its equivalent, along with very good amplification that will last another decade beyond that (my upgrades usually happen on a ten year schedule for electronics and 15 or so for speakers).

A quick infusion of unexpected cash, of course, would advance those plans.

^^^response to post #50

I already have a splitter (I would move it upstairs to the living room). My goal for an upgrade is in about 5 years (after which my current AVR would have given me ten years of service) and it is to go to separates. At that time, I'll get something like the Integra DTC 9.9 or its equivalent, along with very good amplification that will last another decade beyond that (my upgrades usually happen on a ten year schedule for electronics and 15 or so for speakers).

A quick infusion of unexpected cash, of course, would advance those plans.

^^^response to post #50Agreed on all counts. Cash always makes plans advance faster. I empathize with you...I have a good friend that has the denon 5803. Hot damn that bugger is huge and I think weighs over 80 pounds. But alas, no HDMI. He bought right at the cusp of when HDMI was gaining ground. He too has no lossless and is waiting for a good day to upgrade. I sent him the link to the thread to see the options out there. I think these devices are quite ingenious. The fill a tiny niche market though. Much like the needed IR to BT converter boxes for universal control of everything including a PS3.

Yes, we don`t change the bitrate.

Mike,
Will you guys ever put out something like this:
http://www.smartvm.com/HDMI-Switcher-2x1-v13b-with-Separate-SPDIF-COAX-Toslink-Audio-Output-Channel-P39534.htm

I just need coax/opt out and have no current use for analog.

Thanks

Minor update. Our sample unit arrived today, no time yet to test it out yet, but will put it through its paces this week.

Mike of Altona,
I would appreciate if you could confirm that the AT-HD570 passes digital stream directly from HSDMI without "PCM through HDMI to analog conversion" and after "analog to digital SPDIF conversion". In other words that the de-embedder does not introduce any post processing to the signal.

I have finally received AT-HD570. It does indeed de-embed the audio from HDMI. Unfortunately it does not output stereo PCM 24/96kHz at its full resolution through SPDIF Toslink. The digital audio from Toslink is downgraded/converted to 16-bit depth. I am just curious if limitation due to Digital Content Protection (HDCP) implemented on this AT-HD570.
In other words if AT-HD570 is CSS compliant and not allowing any digital high resolution data leaving device through Toslink????

Have you tested the multi-channel analog outs?

Coneyparleg,
No, did not have a chance to test the multi-channel analog outs.
I think it should not be a problem, the problem is high res. audio leaving the box in digital format due to CSS compliancy or so.
Toslink to an external DAC, this is what I wanted to get, and seems to me it is not so simple.
Hmmm, may be I am doing something wrong.

there might be other adapters better for that, i think there are some that only pull the audio to optical out, plus if you have a ps3 you could just have the toslink out directly from the console

If you do get a chance to thest the mutlichannel outs, let us know, particularly for ps3 users, this is the concern

Thank!!!

I note that this adapter is also marketed in Japan by Lancerlink (HD-R121AD) and in the UK as the Cypress CLUX-11SA (now the AU-11SA). All these seem identical, but someone will have to take the Atlona apart to confirm the claim of superiority. Sure would be nice to get a report on how the multichannel output works!:)

EDIT -- Do a Google search on the Cypress unit -- lots of reports on using the unit, and internal pix!!

It seems to me that we have 4 different marketers of the same product. Atlona claims to be superior, and perhaps they are, but until I see specific evidence of their superiority I shall continue to believe that the only thing "distinctive" about the Atlona is the price. BTW, I would be happy to be proven wrong!

Second Edit -- The HD-R121AD seems to carry a list price of $542 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Gasp)

Any tests to report??

Any tests to report??

From my evaluation unit:

Multi channel analog out is discrete and sounds good.
Optical out is front two channels only, not stereo downmixed (fine if using PS3 as source as you can set the PS3 to 2 channel).
HDMI pass-through PCM audio appears to be upsampled (further testing required).
HDMI pass-through of DD and DTS works fine.

Thanks very much!

From my evaluation unit:

Multi channel analog out is discrete and sounds good.
Optical out is front two channels only, not stereo downmixed (fine if using PS3 as source as you can set the PS3 to 2 channel).
HDMI pass-through PCM audio appears to be upsampled (further testing required).
HDMI pass-through of DD and DTS works fine.

Gooki:

Was this evaluation of the Altona product?

The Ambery unit appears basically identical to the Clux product and had a Clux firmware chip. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get it to work. PS3 setup seems fine, but as soon as I load a BD the video is gone and the audio only plays for about a minute before cutting out. Any of you have any secrets to get the "decoder" to work, or should I return it?

Thanks

Edit -- I have returned the unit. My PS3 no longer provides me with either audio or video. It may be that the PS3 was dying anyway, and the numerous resets put it over the edge, or perhaps the PS3 was already weak and couldn't work with the adapter. I suspect some sort of connection, but am certainly not sure what it is. The reviews of the Clux unit have been good, and the Ambery is well built. Anyone else have any results to post?

HDCP issue? how are you connected and what are your settings?

nevermind I see your update

HDCP issue? how are you connected and what are your settings?

nevermind I see your update

The issue is still of interest, though.

I was connected via HDMI from the PS3 thru the adapter to a Panasonic HDTV plasma. The PS3 always worked perfectly. I had selected "Automatic" to set the video resolution - perhaps this was a problem as the Panny is 720p. As I said, playing a Blu-Ray disc would cause freezing and loss of audio and video. Seems to me that your question may have merit, tho I thought the decoder was simply a passthru/repeater device. I had also set up the PS3 audio to output LPCM for 2, 5.1 and 7.1 channel sound. The decoder briefly did its job (great sound) and then froze again.

Happily, the PS3 seems to have repaired itself after several days of being unplugged. I still wish I could have gotten the decoder to work. Do we have any other users here to report their experiences??

Any updates ?

if anyone comes accross reviews for any of these products please post them here
thanks

I finally got Atlona AT-HD570 audio de-embedder/audio stripper box working. It works perfectly, extracts 24/192kHz and 24/176kHz stereo PCM from HDMI and passes it at its full untouched resolution to TOSLINK. My source is DVD-Audio player playing DVD-A and SACD disks (stereo only). The initial problem I had with the signal down sampling and downgrading the bit depth was due to HDMI bandwidth limitations somewhere in HDMI link from DVD-A to Atlona box to TV set working as HDMI sink.
I set video resolution (in HDMI output options) in my DVD-A player to 720p and it fixed the problem. Originally the video setting was Auto, meaning sending 1080p upscaled video and most likely somewhere in HDMI link was not enough bandwidth, the DVD-A player mutually negotiated lower bit dept and sampling frequency.
The Three position switch on Atlona box needs to be set to “Bitstream”.

Over all AT-HD570 is a perfect product.

I finally got Atlona AT-HD570 audio de-embedder/audio stripper box working. It works perfectly, extracts 24/192kHz and 24/176kHz stereo PCM from HDMI and passes it at its full untouched resolution to TOSLINK. My source is DVD-Audio player playing DVD-A and SACD disks (stereo only). The initial problem I had with the signal down sampling and downgrading the bit depth was due to HDMI bandwidth limitations somewhere in HDMI link from DVD-A to Atlona box to TV set working as HDMI sink.
I set video resolution (in HDMI output options) in my DVD-A player to 720p and it fixed the problem. Originally the video setting was Auto, meaning sending 1080p upscaled video and most likely somewhere in HDMI link was not enough bandwidth, the DVD-A player mutually negotiated lower bit dept and sampling frequency.
The Three position switch on Atlona box needs to be set to “Bitstream”.

Over all AT-HD570 is a perfect product.

Have you been able to test the multi-channel analog output?

I apologize but not, was not be able to test multi-channel analog output. I just simply do not have those small stereo connector cables. But what I understood:
It is not clear from Sil9135 HDMI receiver chip (inside the AT-HD570) data sheet if this could decode the Dolby True HD and DTS-HD and pass it through I2S to the internal D to A decoder chips inside the AT-HD570. The Outputs of D to A chips connected to multi-channel analog outputs. Atlona box should definitely accept LPCM 7.1 and 5.1 and output through multi-channel analog outputs. I am not sure if it does the Bitstream decoding, if this is your question.

I would ask Mike from Atlona writing an email directly to sales@atlona.com, support@atlona.com asking to forward your request to engineers and they will test it for you or confirm what is in reality.

I don't think the PS3 can bitsream the uncompressed formats anyways so you'd have to pass LPCM to the unit.

I'm looking to find user review of the sound quality / performance of the LPCM through the analog outs.

The PS3 can bitstream via toslink of the lossy formats, this unit is billed as an option of getting lpcm from the ps3 to av receivers that lack hdmi inputs but have analog inputs so I'm looking for independent confirmation that it does what, up until now, no one has been able to accomplish.

engadget is reporting that the new PS3 Slim CAN bitstream the HD sound formats from Dolby and DTS. Now the display will light up on your HDMI enabled receiver!!!

engadget is reporting that the new PS3 Slim CAN bitstream the HD sound formats from Dolby and DTS. Now the display will light up on your HDMI enabled receiver!!!

Wow, did you even glance at the subject of this thread?

Never mind the fact that it's old news . . .

Wow, did you even glance at the subject of this thread?

Never mind the fact that it's old news . . .

I was quite aware of the subject of the thread -- and was replying to a statement in an earlier post about the bitstream capabilities of the PS3. Did you even glance at my previous posts here?

Perhaps it is old news, but I certainly hadn't seen it before today.

You need to lighten up a bit IMHO

I was quite aware of the subject of the thread -- and was replying to a statement in an earlier post about the bitstream capabilities of the PS3. Did you even glance at my previous posts here?

Nope, I didn't. Sorry about that. I assumed the post to which I was responding was a "drive by."

Perhaps it is old news, but I certainly hadn't seen it before today.

There were a couple of threads here that discussed it at length.

You need to lighten up a bit IMHO

Don't we all . . . ;)

I recently ordered the Altona Unit, I will have it next week and will post a review shortly thereafter

I recently ordered the Altona Unit, I will have it next week and will post a review shortly thereafter

Great!! Hope it works out better than my experience with the Ambery unit, tho that may have been my fault. I am beginning to suspect my HDMI cables and PS3 settings as possible sources of difficulty. I look forward to your test.

From my evaluation unit:

Multi channel analog out is discrete and sounds good.
Optical out is front two channels only, not stereo downmixed (fine if using PS3 as source as you can set the PS3 to 2 channel).
HDMI pass-through PCM audio appears to be upsampled (further testing required).
HDMI pass-through of DD and DTS works fine.

Any news on your "evaluation unit"? Is it on the market yet? Any link? Thanks! :cool:

Hooked it up, multichannel works and its great, one quirk is that sound will also be sent to the tv via the hdmi, so turn down your tv's volume

new problem is that my receiver wont matrix the multichannel so I might need new speakers if I can't figure out how to send the bass from the other channels to the sub in addition to the lfe, but this is minor for now,

I am very happy with the product

I also checked everything using my calibration disk and did not need to adjust anything

Thanks for the information!!!!

Any updates on the clones?

thanks

works great I'm very happy with it

Glad it works! I thought through the issues involved, and decided to upgrade my Denon AVR-3805 to a AVR-3806. The "new" receiver was less than $300 on a well known auction site, and I suspect my 3805 will sell for close to that -- in any case, the sound is GREAT! (and yes, I know, the thread is for solutions when one doesn't have an HDMI capable receiver!)

@ Mike Atlona or anyone else:

What actually is involved in De-embeding the audio to convert LPCM to analog 7.1?

I am interested in such a device for use with an Asus-Xonar Card outputting LPCM via HDMI. I need to run 7.1 lossless analog into my Pre-Amp but without too much loss of quality

@ Mike Atlona or anyone else:

What actually is involved in De-embeding the audio to convert LPCM to analog 7.1?

I am interested in such a device for use with an Asus-Xonar Card outputting LPCM via HDMI. I need to run 7.1 lossless analog into my Pre-Amp but without too much loss of quality

I am using the Atlona device now to pull 5.1 analog into my receiver, it works as advertised, lossless audio. the only 2 things I will not is
1) the audio will still go through the hdmi while also put through the analog outs - for me this means audio to the receiver and to the tv at the same time, simple fix is to turn the volume down on the tv
2) no bass management in the PS3, or atlona device means you either need speakers that handle the full range or a receiver that will add bass management to the lpcm signal ( i understand this is rare) - I changed my front speakers to towers and am now very happy

these to issues are not problems with the device they are just somethig to be aware of when if you add the de-embedder to your set up

hope this helps

enjoy

I finally got Atlona AT-HD570 audio de-embedder/audio stripper box working. It works perfectly, extracts 24/192kHz and 24/176kHz stereo PCM from HDMI and passes it at its full untouched resolution to TOSLINK. My source is DVD-Audio player playing DVD-A and SACD disks (stereo only). The initial problem I had with the signal down sampling and downgrading the bit depth was due to HDMI bandwidth limitations somewhere in HDMI link from DVD-A to Atlona box to TV set working as HDMI sink.
I set video resolution (in HDMI output options) in my DVD-A player to 720p and it fixed the problem. Originally the video setting was Auto, meaning sending 1080p upscaled video and most likely somewhere in HDMI link was not enough bandwidth, the DVD-A player mutually negotiated lower bit dept and sampling frequency.
The Three position switch on Atlona box needs to be set to “Bitstream”.

Over all AT-HD570 is a perfect product.

Why does it have to be set to bitstream? That implies Dolby Digital or DTS doesn't it? I want 24 bit/96k PCM from the SPDIF TOSLINK output. Are you getting that? I want to record the hi-res PCM from my SACD collection to a hard drive for my music server so I need the hi-res PCM output.

I do not know why it was need to be set for a bitstream. This setting was needed in order to get it working with PCM through HDMI.

Yes, I can confirm that Atlona AT-HD570 outputs 24/96 and even 24/192 through SPDIF optical. I am playing SACD and my player outputs PCM over HDMI (DSD is already decoded to PCM inside the SACD player) either 24/88 or 24/176. Again, you need to make sure that your SACD player outputs PCM over HDMI. Atlona box does not decode the DSD audio.

Coneyparleg and bordo32,

Apologies for dredging up an old thread but it's relevant to me...

Are you guys still using the Atlona AT-HD570 in your systems and if you are, have your thoughts changed at all? Are you still happy with this unit?

I'm thinking to use this because I need the 7.1 analogue outputs but I'm not sure about the DAC quality.......

Cheers