After years of thinking Le Tour might be in HD only to find out it would not be, 2009 is the year we finally get to see the majesty of France and the spectacle of this amazing event in high definition in HD. Versus HD will be airing 13 hours of HD coverage per day from July 4th through July 26th, split between their live coverage in the morning and their "enhanced" primetime coverage in the evenings. The press release (http://www.versus.com/nw/article/view/80761/?tf=press_center.tpl&UserDef=true):

Versus to Televise 2009 Tour de France in HD for First Time Ever; Network Set to Deliver More Than 250 Hours of Race Coverage Featuring Lance Armstrong's Shot at Record Eighth Tour Victory

NEW YORK, N.Y. (June 24, 2009) -- VERSUS, the exclusive television home of the Tour de France in the U.S., will kick-off its ninth year of wall-to-wall coverage of the most intense and grueling competition in all of sports on Sat., July 4, at 9:30 a.m. ET. The network will begin its first day of Tour coverage at 8:30 a.m. ET with a one-hour special chronicling Lance Armstrong’s career and his 2009 comeback season. For the first time ever, each stage of the Tour will be produced in full HD.

Throughout the 23-day, 2,000-mile competition, the network will air an average of 13 hours of race action per day. Daily coverage includes live race action and an expanded primetime show. (See the complete schedule.) Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwen, the undisputed voices of cycling, will once again call all the race action and Frankie Andreu and Robbie Ventura will return as the field reporters. Craig Hummer and Bob Roll will host the primetime show each night.

This year, the last four Tour de France champions -- Lance Armstrong (1999-2005), Oscar Pereiro (2006), Alberto Contador (2007) and Carlos Sastre (2008) -- will all be competing against each other for their chance to once again wear the coveted yellow jersey in Paris. Armstrong and Contador will both be riding for Team Astana.

“There is no other sporting event in the world that compares to the Tour de France and there is no other television network that could give the race the tremendous scope of coverage it deserves like VERSUS. As we head into our ninth year as the home of the Tour, the network’s commitment to cycling has never been stronger with more than 250 hours of HD race action this July,” said Jamie Davis, President of VERSUS. “The 2008 race was VERSUS’ most-watched Tour in network history, but with four past champions competing this year, including the return of cycling legend Lance Armstrong, there is no doubt that this year’s competition will be even more captivating.”

With the quest to deliver unprecedented access via new and unique production enhancements VERSUS has placed a camera on the U.S. cycling team Garmin-Slipstream’s bus to give viewers an insider’s look at the team’s daily meeting as they prepare for the day’s stage. Other enhancements that VERSUS will offer include profiles and features on teams and riders; advanced on-screen statistics/biometrics to illustrate the intensity at which the riders are competing; and a telestrator to analyze and breakdown sprint finishes, among others.

As a critical part of VERSUS’ un-matched and all-encompassing coverage of the worlds most grueling and epic race, www.VERSUS.com has redoubled its offering as the premier online destination for cycling fans and the official Tour website in the U.S. Riding the momentum from huge surges in online usage during last year’s Tour (video views up 92% in 2008 over 2007), the site will provide fans with 24-hour access to anything and everything Tour related, including: exclusive video and features, highlights of race footage, features and daily reports from VERSUS analysts and experts, as well as daily podcasts, dynamic stage profiles that chart the peloton’s progress, standings by category and live minute-to-minute updates of each stage.

The full schedule of broadcasts is available on the Versus web site (http://www.versus.com/tdf/article/view/758/?ss=tv&tf=body_tdf_schedule.tpl). There's a preview show tomorrow night on Versus, but I don't believe the preview is in HD.

Don't forget that it all kicks off next Saturday, July 4th!

Can't wait. It will be interesting to see Lance riding again. If he does well, the French press will say he's doping. If he does poorly, they'll probably say that is proof that he was doping when he won all of those past tours.

My money is on Contador for yellow and Cavendish for green.

My money is on Contador for yellow and Cavendish for green.
Definitely agree with you on Cavendish for the green jersey. I'm going to go with Dan Martin (Garmin-Slipstream) for the white jersey.

For the yellow, though, things are not quite as clear. Contador, on paper, is the pick for the win. That said, Lance Armstrong and various team politics on Astana could make things interesting, and there's definitely some firepower elsewhere this year. It's going to be really entertaining. Definitely think Astana will win the team classification, though.

Tonight's preview show will be in HD (confirmed by producer on Twitter). 7pm EST on Versus HD.

. Versus HD will be airing 13 hours of HD coverage per day from July 4th through July 26th, I still won't believe it till I see it. :)

larry

I still won't believe it till I see it. :)
Well, the preview show is on now and it's in HD. Obviously, older highlights are not all in HD, but newer footage is in HD, and so are all the interviews and promotional shots.

My money is on Contador for yellow and Cavendish for green.Can't wait for the 2009 tour!

I read one prediction that Cavendish won't finish the tour hence no green jersey for him. The yellow jersey should be real interesting and with perhaps the toughest stage being the day before they ride into Paris it might be a while before the winner is decided or even who will be the domestiques.

I still won't believe it till I see it. :)

larry

They've been showing cycling in HD for two months now.

I read one prediction that Cavendish won't finish the tour hence no green jersey for him.
Yeah, the question is can he finish? He didn't last year. IIRC, it was because he was "tired," but also because he was going to the Olympics.

I didn't say they weren't planning on doing it, I just said I'll believe it when I see it. Seeing Phil and Paul at the finish line or mobile studio in HD is not the same as watching the battles in the Alps and such in HD. I can't wait to see it, but until then.... :)

larry

Seeing Phil and Paul at the finish line or mobile studio in HD is not the same as watching the battles in the Alps and such in HD.Just expect to see up to six times the number of picture break-ups. :)

I didn't say they weren't planning on doing it, I just said I'll believe it when I see it. Seeing Phil and Paul at the finish line or mobile studio in HD is not the same as watching the battles in the Alps and such in HD. I can't wait to see it, but until then.... :)
The preview show had clips from last year's Tour that were in HD, so I see no reason why it won't be in HD. Especially since the producer of the cycling coverage for Versus has assured people that everything (studio, interviews, live coverage of the race, etc.) will be in HD.

Are the post race steroid tests in HD too ?

Just expect to see up to six times the number of picture break-ups. :)

Yeah....that's going to be interesting....certain stages and points in stages were crappy enough in SD with all the breakups, now we can watch a full HD screen worth of pixelated blocks

I seem to recall that they had some improved tech last year that reduced the number of breakups. Could be wrong, and there were still plenty of them.

At this years' Tour de Suisse (I think that was the race) they went through a very long tunnel and had solid pictures almost all of the way through. Phil and Paul were bragging about the new tech that made it possible. Of course, they lost the signal right after that. Anyway, I'm hoping for fewer breakups this time around.

A reminder, Stage 1's individual time trial in Monaco is tomorrow morning. Coverage begins at 9:30am EST, with an hour special on Lance before it at 8:30am EST and the preview show before that at 8:00am EST.

My top three prediction:
1) Cancellara
2) Zabriskie
3) Leipheimer

The first half of the TT is basically up hill. Contador should do well, too.

larry

I'd love to see some screenshots, if possible.

I'd love to see some screenshots, if possible.
I'm not setup for screenshots unfortunately, but I am very interested if anyone knows the specs for the production. I assume they are not using the standard North American HD setup, and that production is similar to what you see for Wimbledon.

Things are up in HD. Mobile studio shots look pretty good, but the shot of the boats on the water in Monaco has looked a bit off to me. Will likely see a change in quality when the switch goes over to the host feed for the race after the pre-race show that Versus handles all production on.

Wow, this is nice visually compared to what's gone before here (only watched briefly because of SD). Nice and crispy/colorful with not too many breakups. Looking forward to live virtual-travel views of the countryside/mountains. Still breaking in a new plasma, so not happy with the ever-present black data bar across the bottom. (NYC's TWC to a Panasonic TH-65VX-100U.) At ~10:37 am ET, just caught an HD view while Armstrong travels through a tunnel with crisp video, followed by a HD airborne shot. -- John

It appears the helicopter cams are different than the motor cycle hand helds. Or, the link between the hand held cams and studio is doing extra compression and sharpening - EE is quite prevalent. Heli cams don't look bad and the hand held shots are not quite as good. Overall, not a bad job considering what needs to be done. Better than SD. It's a step in the right direction. Getting the mobile video to look like the stationary video won't be easy but hopefully over time technology will allow them to do it.

larry

Wow, this is nice visually compared to what's gone before here (only watched briefly because of SD). Nice and crispy/colorful with not too many breakups. Looking forward to live virtual-travel views of the countryside/mountains. Still breaking in a new plasma, so not happy with the ever-present black data bar across the bottom. (NYC's TWC to a Panasonic TH-65VX-100U.) At ~10:37 am ET, just caught an HD view while Armstrong travels through a tunnel with crisp video, followed by a HD airborne shot. -- John
I've noticed the moto shots have a lot of swimming on the road and general macroblocking. Not sure if this is related to the wireless transmission of the signal from the moto, the host country's production differences from the HD standards used here, or just the crappy compression from TWC in NYC.

^^^They seemed to have dropped the bottom data bar periodically, which hopefully will minimize any plasma image retention.

Not getting any of the artifacts you mention here @8' from a 65" plasma screen. It just looks very good, with some brief breakups--not unexpected from all the camera switching taking place. -- John

^^^They seemed to have dropped the bottom data bar periodically, which hopefull will minimize at plasma image retention.

Not getting any of the artifacts you mention here @8' from a 65" plasma screen. It just looks very good, with a rare beakup, not unexpected from all the camera switching taking place. -- John
What's your provider here in NYC? I'm on TWC Upper Manhattan at the moment.

I've noticed the moto shots have a lot of swimming on the road and general macroblocking. Not sure if this is related to the wireless transmission of the signal from the moto, the host country's production differences from the HD standards used here, or just the crappy compression from TWC in NYC.It's not local cable compression. The stationary and studio cam video looks great. It's coming from the same place. The mobile hand held cams have to use extra compression because of wireless bandwidth restrictions up to the heli or whatever is relaying the signal to the truck. It also seems like some mobile cams look better than others. Armstrong's motor cycle cam didn't look as good as some others. It may be due to lighting since the sun is starting to shine through. But for some riders, it doesn't seem to be compressed as much and EE is not very heavy. I can't complain because it's not like anybody making it look worse on purpose.

I have comcast cable. I doubt anybody can have worse congestion with HD channels piled on the same QAM channel. :)

larry

It's not local cable compression. The stationary and studio cam video looks great. It's coming from the same place. The mobile hand held cams have to use extra compression because of wireless bandwidth restrictions up to the heli or whatever is relaying the signal to the truck. It also seems like some mobile cams look better than others. Armstrong's motor cycle cam didn't look as good as some others. It may be due to lighting since the sun is starting to shine through. But for some riders, it doesn't seem to be compressed as much and EE is not very heavy. I can't complain because it's not like anybody making it look worse on purpose.
Yeah, you're right. The studio cameras, and the fixed position cameras for the finish look incredible. And even with the compression on the motos, this is a huge improvement over previous years.

What's your provider here in NYC? I'm on TWC Upper Manhattan at the moment.
On the S. Manhattan head end. Haven't read of significant technical (PQ)differences between N/S head ends, so maybe something else is going on. Taking into account the presumed 1080/50i to 1080/60i conversion, the motorcycle shots look very good here. No doubt direct 1080/60i would look a little better, and one of these years perhaps they'll be piping 1080/50p/60p our way. For their chopper shots it would be interesting to see what haze filtering might do, if not already in use. -- John

Yeah, you're right. The studio cameras, and the fixed position cameras for the finish look incredible. And even with the compression on the motos, this is a huge improvement over previous years.Yes, nice improvement. Finally.

larry

On the S. Manhattan head end. Haven't read of significant technical (PQ)differences between N/S head ends, so maybe something else is going on. Taking into account the presumed 1080/50i to 1080/60i conversion, the motorcycle shots look very good here. No doubt direct 1080/60i would look a little better, and one of these years perhaps they'll be piping 1080/50p/60p our way. For their chopper shots it would be interesting to see what haze filtering might do, if not already in use. -- John
1080i60 with decent bitrate is all we need. It can carry 24fps film and 30fps video just fine. Hopefully the cable companies will switch to MPEG4 soon. Although "soon" in cable company circles is usually measured in years, or at least fort-months. :(

larry

I'm not setup for screenshots unfortunately, but I am very interested if anyone knows the specs for the production. I assume they are not using the standard North American HD setup, and that production is similar to what you see for Wimbledon.

Things are up in HD. Mobile studio shots look pretty good, but the shot of the boats on the water in Monaco has looked a bit off to me. Will likely see a change in quality when the switch goes over to the host feed for the race after the pre-race show that Versus handles all production on.


TDF is shot in 1080i/50Hz. If it was 1080i/60Hz (used in NA) it would look slightly better due 60Hz being higher quality, plus there would be no standards conversion.

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/9873/vlcsnap1756467.th.png (http://img127.imageshack.us/i/vlcsnap1756467.png/)

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7531/vlcsnap1757574.th.png (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/vlcsnap1757574.png/)

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4933/vlcsnap1756651.th.png (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/vlcsnap1756651.png/)

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1104/vlcsnap1763491.th.png (http://img136.imageshack.us/i/vlcsnap1763491.png/)

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/6995/vlcsnap1763890.th.png (http://img31.imageshack.us/i/vlcsnap1763890.png/)

This is my first time watching VSHD, and I was impressed that even the commercials and promos were all in their correct aspect ratios, windowboxed if needs, with no stretching or zooming.

Very pleased with the presentation (on Comcast in Delaware County, PA) overall. Huge improvement over past years, obviously, but given the challenges of such a production in the field, and getting it over to the US live, I think they earn high marks.

Hope they can keep it up when they get into more stretched out stages through rough terrain.

Hello,

As of yesterday afternoon we have no VersusHD in Greensboro, NC. Message is saying that it is not available at this time? I called TWC, and got some BS excuse about to many people are watching the Tour causing some not to be able to get the channel? WTF!! So if that is the real cause, why did my fox channel not blow up when I everyone was watching American Idol.

Is anybody else experiencing this problem??

Would love to be able to watch the Tour in HD.
:mad:

My only complaint of the coverage today is Versus' switch to their own graphics for the time splits. In previous years, they used the host feed's timing graphics which appeared immediately and ran through the entire standings as the competitor's time passed. This gave you a better sense of the standings and where everyone stood.

The Versus graphics, by comparison, displayed the current time very small, and they did not appear to be hooked up to the timing computer in any way. In other words, the time ticked past and then would pause and eventually be replaced by the actual time (often a couple seconds different than what it appeared the rider got). Not to mention you only see the top time, rather than running through the times.

Final complaint on the graphics was how there were many false starts on the graphics this time. Since they weren't relying on the host feed graphics, Versus had to put up their own graphics, which took a bit to animate on and off screen. Since they had no control over the cameras, the graphics often appeared right as the camera switched to another rider, etc.

On any other stage, these complaints would be minor, but for time trials I really prefer the graphics and functionality that the host feed provides.

Hello,

As of yesterday afternoon we have no VersusHD in Greensboro, NC. Message is saying that it is not available at this time? I called TWC, and got some BS excuse about to many people are watching the Tour causing some not to be able to get the channel? WTF!! So if that is the real cause, why did my fox channel not blow up when I everyone was watching American Idol.

Is anybody else experiencing this problem??

Would love to be able to watch the Tour in HD.
:mad:You might want to ask in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16769856#post16769856

As of yesterday afternoon we have no VersusHD in Greensboro, NC. Message is saying that it is not available at this time? I called TWC, and got some BS excuse about to many people are watching the Tour causing some not to be able to get the channel? WTF!! So if that is the real cause, why did my fox channel not blow up when I everyone was watching American Idol.

Is that channel being delivered via switched digital video (SDV)? Sounds like BS here, too, although perhaps if it is a SDV channel the local nodes were overwhelmed--normally, AIUI, cured by subdividing nodes so that each node has fewer subscribers; similar to cell-phone subdivisions. That message crops up on many cable systems for VOD, a type of SDV, when too many viewers are ordering stored programming for the local node capacity. -- John

On any other stage, these complaints would be minor, but for time trials I really prefer the graphics and functionality that the host feed provides.

It seemed like the commentators couldn't see the host feed either. On more than one occasion they actually said that they couldn't see the times and were waiting for the on-screen graphics to come up. Weird.

I agree that the PQ was generally quite good. The studio shots especially. When they first showed Phil and Paul in the booth, I was stunned at how good it looked.

The black info bar at the bottom really needs to go. It is very distracting with that middle bit rotating all of the time. I'm hoping that it was for the ITT only as I can sort of see that it might be useful there with results potentially changing frequently. On a normal stage, though, I don't see any usefulness. In any case, I wish they would return to the host graphics.

BTW, thanks everybody for not posting any spoilers. If you must post results on the same day, please remember to use spoiler tags.

BTW, thanks everybody for not posting any spoilers. If you must post results on the same day, please remember to use spoiler tags. Don't be disappointed if people don't use spoilers. The general rule for this forum is that once it's been broadcast at the stated time (live in this case), it's fair game. I never noticed spoilers for other sporting events, even those in different parts of the world, e.g. Olympics. There's nothing wrong with using spoilers if people decide to use them.

larry

Directv here. I think the pq is pretty good all things involved sure it doesnt quite look like a OTA NFL game. Still pretty amazing. Had a friend over this morning watched before a ride. She was watching it at home on basic comcast no hd walked in she thats all most like being there. 58 Samsung plasma. Too bad about the crash at the end it would have been a wild sprint

And Tuesday will be good. Team Time Trial. Some people are going to lose lots of time. Should be spectacular. One word ASTANA.

Signal Problems?
Anybody else having signal issues with the TDF on Versus HD? I have two different dvrs trying to record stage three off of TWC NYC's feed and they have both crapped out multiple times on today's stage. I'm watching right now and the picture is jumping vertically. I can see the blanking at the bottom of the frame. - Actually, now I've lost picture entirely, so maybe it isn't just VSHD, but TWC...

^^^Tuned in periodically from TWC's S.Manhattan head end and haven't seen any serious problems. Noticed bad blocking/motion artifacts and dropouts last week on various channels, but that cleared up after I cold-booted my 8300HD STB. -- John

No problems with today's VSHD feed on Cablevision. Except for the live coverage running past my half hour ending pad. Had to set the DVR to record one of the replays so I can see the end.

Maybe just my building. The apartment downstairs from me lost cable for about half an hour as well.

I hope you got to see the end of the stage - it rocked today!

I hope you got to see the end of the stage - it rocked today!It sure did and it makes tomorrow's team time trial even more fun!

My TiVo crapped out on me this morning (green screen + sirens blaring) so I missed the live coverage, but I watched a later broadcast. Crazy stage today, and looked great. Fantastic! So pumped for tomorrow. Would like to see Garmin redeem themselves after really missing out today.

Very interesting outcome yesterday that could change the face of this Tour. Astana is the strongest team in my opinion and that could very well put Lance in yellow after today's Team Time Trial. He would probably not want to keep it, but how will him going to the front yesterday and not Contador effect how Astana approaches the rest of the Tour?

Very interesting outcome yesterday that could change the face of this Tour. Astana is the strongest team in my opinion and that could very well put Lance in yellow after today's Team Time Trial. He would probably not want to keep it, but how will him going to the front yesterday and not Contador effect how Astana approaches the rest of the Tour?

Very clear from Armstrong's post-stage interview that he really, really wants #8 and expects to win it. He's hardly even paying lip service to Contador now. Assuming the rest of the team lines up (he may not be the "leader," but he's definitely the Boss), it could well happen. The TTT is looking gruesome, too.

He's hardly even paying lip service to Contador now.He might once the mountain stages hit. Even today Lance said all of the flat stages don't mean a thing... as to who will win the tour. He did look like the Boss during the time trial spending more time out front than anyone else. Can't wait for the mano a mano climbs.

Well you can't get much closer then that. Astana could sweep the GC podium this year. Can't wait for the mountains.

Find the commentary attempts at enlivening the race becomes tiring after a while. Except for brief moments, the action is pretty boring, so killing the audio helps. Might be interesting to see--segments at least--with no commentary, longer chopper shots of riders weaving through streets and over hills, with added scenic views and only periodic, brief, race-data graphics. Toss in some quiet background music, say Debussy, etc., plus local folk tunes. May have missed it, but more basic explanations (for tour neophytes) about rules/goals would help, too. Vote for a similar event featuring young spandex-garbed athletic women. -- John

Well the leaders survived today's crash fest. Now it starts to get exciting with a HC mountain top finish tomorrow. Time to see who the contenders really are.

Find the commentary attempts at enlivening the race becomes tiring after a while.

When do you watch? The live show at 8am has Phil Ligget and Paul Sherwin, who have great insights into the the inner workings of the teams and the peleton. The "enhanced" coverage at 8pm has Bob Roll and Jesse Ventura, who are OK, but not in the same league as Phil and Paul.

The live show at 8am has Phil Ligget and Paul Sherwin, who have great insights into the the inner workings of the teams and the peleton.I agree. I enjoy the pair even during the third week's flat stages.

Those helicopter shots were awesome today! Especially the one of the descent with the tunnels carved in the mountains.

This is setting up to be a 2 stage race for the yellow. Stage 18 individual time trial and stage 20 with the mountain top finish on Mont Ventoux. Contador made a small statement today but not enough to convince me he is the man.

Great picture but I wish they would loose the "commercial free" bug. I would rather have commercials.

Looks like Contador will win the tour, he beat armstrong in the prolog TT, and beat him today in the mountains. Armstrong looks good for a podium finish though.

The "enhanced" coverage at 8pm has Bob Roll and Jesse VenturaEr... that's former pro cyclist Robbie Ventura who is the VS commentator for second shift.

Jesse Ventura is the Minnesotan and former wrestler who was Governor of that state from 1999 to 2003.

Looks like Contador will win the tour, he beat armstrong in the prolog TT, and beat him today in the mountains.He sure did take off! I haven't hear any of the interviews but I'm wondering if Lance even tried to keep up. Rather it appeared he just keep marking the other riders... being a good team member. If he went after him he would have helped the others. But until proven other wise I don't see Lance being able to pull away (accelerating) from Contador. His only hope might be wearing him down during the long mountain stages going one on one.

if lance proves to be the stronger rider over the course of mountain stages and final tt, he will be the greatest cyclist in history (arguably already the case). the french will have to accept that, though they probably won't and will come up with a thousand excuses...

i'm so pulling for lance to win!

I gotta say, really impressed with Wiggins today. That man climbed that mountain better than I think anyone expected him to. Good to see that Garmin may have some additional firepower for the mountains.

He sure did take off! I haven't hear any of the interviews but I'm wondering if Lance even tried to keep up. Rather it appeared he just keep marking the other riders... being a good team member.

That's exactly what Lance said in his post race interview. "I was working for the team".

the french will have to accept that, though they probably won't and will come up with a thousand excuses...This year one of the French journalists stood up during a press conference and thanked Lance as he has brought more excitement to this year's tour then all of the last several without him. According to many reports the French people like Lance but the company who owns the tour is another story. Don't they publish the local newspaper?

Lance had a surprise drug test by the UCI before the start of today's stage, what a shocker.

That's exactly what Lance said in his post race interview. "I was working for the team".Since they were in Alberto's home tuff I wasn't surprised he broke away. I saw one interview with Bruyneel and he looked around and said it's mighty loud just as Alberto left the trailer. All of those Spanish fans made it look like a soccer match. :)

That's exactly what Lance said in his post race interview. "I was working for the team".

When asked this morning if Contador attacking yesterday would bring any friction to the team, Lance replied, "I'm not gonna comment on that" :eek::eek:

Great picture but I wish they would lose the "commercial free" bug. I would rather have commercials.ABSOLUTELY!

That banner obstructs much too much of the screen and is present for the full 30 minutes!

Very very annoying. Almost as annoying as the onscreen graphics showing standings and other ads and promos which obstruct 50% of the screen.

Coverage itself is gorgeous. But tone down the obstructions.

It's interesting to note the balancing act Phil & Paul do with the coverage, since they are covering the even for multiple television networks at the same time. This is extremely noticeable if you also watch the online streaming on Versus.com, which is not a simulcast of the TV broadcast. Instead, it is constant commentary from Phil & Paul with the host feed and host graphics only, plus no commercials. Whenever Versus has any of their interview/highlight segments or go in/out of commercial, Phil takes over on Versus. Paul, on the other hand, continues to do commentary on the live streaming feed. Phil joins him occasionally during the commercial break, and then they switch back. They seem to handle this very well!

On the graphics front, as I think I've mentioned before (specifically regarding the time trial), I think that's where Versus' HD coverage is extremely disappointing. It actually detracts from the broadcast. The graphics are oversized, visually distracting, hard to read, and use some gratuitous lengthy animation. Couple that with the fact that they don't necessarily know where the cameras are going, and it's a big mess!

The constant bottom bar at the bottom has been far more effective in years past. It used to display two groups (with time gaps and jersey composition) and then would slide/wipe to another page. Now we just get one group per "page". Really not good for getting a relative sense of what's going on.

And since I'm criticizing, I should make some suggestions! Namely, do what the host feed does for the broadcasts. In fact, a lot of US sports broadcasts could take a lesson from the simplicity, graphic styling, and general idea behind what the host is doing for the Tour. They use simple black/white graphics with no visual clutter. The font is easy to read. They keep things small. Relative time gaps are presented in a great way. They use a small text badge to label cameras, especially on mountain stages, so you get a good sense of what you are looking at. Also, the graphics have no animation to them. They fade in and out almost as if they are hard cuts. Great stuff.

I've taken some screencaps of this from the Versus.com streaming to show the host feed. Apologize for the low quality (nature of the free streaming), but it shows what I mean. Now why can't we get this for more broadcasts!?

http://files.mindsmith.net/public/avsforum/tdf_graphics_1.jpghttp://files.mindsmith.net/public/avsforum/tdf_graphics_2.jpghttp://files.mindsmith.net/public/avsforum/tdf_graphics_3.jpghttp://files.mindsmith.net/public/avsforum/tdf_graphics_4.jpghttp://files.mindsmith.net/public/avsforum/tdf_graphics_5.jpghttp://files.mindsmith.net/public/avsforum/tdf_graphics_6.jpg

I agree absolutely. I think Versus used the host graphics in previous years. Its more difficult to know which group is on screen and the time gaps between the groups with the Versus graphics.

Do not want to complain too much though, the HD pictures are great.

I have been a Tour fan since the early days of Lance Armstrong's dominance of the event. Thus, even in the old SD days, I thought that the TV coverage was a lot of fun. Now, though, wow! The HD coverage of the race going through one transcendently beautiful locale after another has been awe inspiring. I have been recording Versus' HD live coverage every day and watching it all except for commercials and a few interviews that didn't interest me and never had more fun watching a sporting event. Now I'm worried about how I am going to find time to watch both the Tour and the British Open gold tournament later this week. It's a nice problem to have, though.:)

The heli HD shots of the country side and mountains are quite nice!

larry

I hate the flat stages, they are boring and predictable.

I hate the flat stages, they are boring and predictable.They weren't when Lance got his 40 seconds (38?) over Alberto. I'm thinking that's a large part of the reason Alberto attacked on the first mountain stage... believing Lance did him wrong on that stage.

Although the flat stages are less important than the mountain stages, even they usually have exciting finishes and the HD images are GORGEOUS! I am loving this stuff, it's the next best thing to a European summer vacation.

Brad Smith, I definitely agree. The info graphics now on Versus HDTV, are almost worthless and interfere with the picture.

Although the flat stages are less important than the mountain stages, even they usually have exciting finishes and the HD images are GORGEOUS! I am loving this stuff, it's the next best thing to a European summer vacation.

And it was a fantastic finish today, with Mark Cavendish winning again!

Great sprint to the finish as Marks teammates put him right where he needed to be to beat the other top sprinters.

And it was a fantastic finish today, with Mark Cavendish winning again!

Great sprint to the finish as Marks teammates put him right where he needed to be to beat the other top sprinters.
I agree that today's finish was very exciting. Cavendish seems to be unbeatable in the sprints unless his team somehow screws up, which they certainly have not done in this Tour. I continue to worry that I will become jaded over the startlingly beautiful venues of the Tour but I continue to be riveted by them and by the competition. This has been exciting television, to me at least, and it promises to become even more exciting when the Tour reaches the Alps.

Levi breaking his wrist yesterday and having to drop out means Lance looses a good teammate for the rest of the tour. Time will tell if this will hurt him.

The heli HD shots of the country side and mountains are quite nice!

larry

Even in the old days pre Lance the country side shots were beautiful. The coverage was really hard to come by, but into the Lance Run, Discovery or USA made an effort with a 3 hour daily broadcast.

I used to laugh at the same watch commercial over and over for 3 weeks. The Euro broadcasts were a different story & only available on C Band.

incredible pic but would somebody at least try an attack seems like their playing right into astanas hand

Looks like Contador will win the tour, he beat armstrong in the prolog TT, and beat him today in the mountains. Armstrong looks good for a podium finish though.I think Contador played his hand too soon. The race won't be won until the last week, when playing possum could really pay off (if that's what Lance was doing) big. It takes a lot more than legs to win this thing.

I'm loving the HD coverage, with the mountains and flat stages being equally interesting. The age-defying estates and architecture we're being treated to is magnificent to see in such great detail.

incredible pic but would somebody at least try an attack seems like their playing right into astanas handThey will begin on Sunday... once they reach the Alps the GC boys come out to play.

I have fallen in love with the coverage of this year's Tour. I have never been to France but my brother loves the place, raves about how beautiful it is, and never passes up an opportunity to needle me about never having been. This coverage has made me understand what he is talking about.

I have been so riveted by the event this year that I am actually learning enough about its arcane tactics to understand what the team managers are saying in their interviews most of the time.:) I agree that the extreme conservatism of the leaders in avoiding attacks does seem to be playing into the hands of Armstrong, Contador, and the rest of the Astana team. When the Tour reaches the Alps the riders will have to cut the tension with a knife.

I have fallen in love with the coverage of this year's Tour. I have never been to France but my brother loves the place, raves about how beautiful it is, and never passes up an opportunity to needle me about never having been. This coverage has made me understand what he is talking about.


You should go. I went about 4 years ago and followed the tour through the alps to south of France. It was the trip of a lifetime. Looking at the race on TV, would have loved to follow them from Monaco through the Pyrenees. I am definitely going again next year.

Great scenery. Feel sorry For George Hincappie. Nice try today. I can't wait to view tomorrow's race!

I loved the Tour again today but was a little disappointed by George Hincapie's bitter reaction to Team Astana's decision not to let the breakaway get too far ahead. I know the Astana guys would have preferred that Hincapie get the yellow jersey but they couldn't afford to give anybody a significant lead over Armstrong and Contador. To steal a NASCAR phrase, "That's racin'."

I think Geogre was little harsh on the Astana team. They were just keeping the time gap reasonable in the early part of the race. You cannot give a guy like Hincapie a the yellow jersey with a 5 minute lead.

You should go. I went about 4 years ago and followed the tour through the alps to south of France. It was the trip of a lifetime. Looking at the race on TV, would have loved to follow them from Monaco through the Pyrenees. I am definitely going again next year.

I've been watching the Tour for 15 years*, but I've never been there in person. I'm curious about what you do while waiting for the riders to pass and then after they've gone by. Do you go inside and watch on TV? Or, do you spend most of the time being a tourist and traveling from stage to stage? In the mountain stages it seems as if you need to arrive very early to get a decent spot.

* I thank God every day for Versus. The ESPN coverage was better than nothing, but it doesn't compare to the show that Versus does. IIRC, ESPN used to do a half hour most days (with clueless commentators), and then on Sundays another network had the rights and would do an hour recap of the week.

I've been watching the Tour for 15 years*, but I've never been there in person. I'm curious about what you do while waiting for the riders to pass and then after they've gone by. Do you go inside and watch on TV? Or, do you spend most of the time being a tourist and traveling from stage to stage? In the mountain stages it seems as if you need to arrive very early to get a decent spot.

We booked hotels at the finish line for most of the stages, so we would get up in the morning, have breakfast, then drive to the next stage (they close the roads so you need to get up early). At the finish line we would hang around the town and do some sightseeing, go to the finish line around 4pm (the stages normally finish around 5). Then back to the hotel for a while and out for dinner. The towns that host the tour always have a big party the day the riders are in town.

In the mountains stages you can get a decent spot as long as you have a hotel at the finish town the night before. You need to get there the day before the riders, because they close the only road up to the finish early in the morning. Most of the mountain finish towns are ski resorts. Then its sightseeing in the morning and up to the finish in the afternoon. They have big screen TVs at the finish so you can watch the action.

I've been watching the Tour for 15 years*, but I've never been there in person. I'm curious about what you do while waiting for the riders to pass and then after they've gone by. Do you go inside and watch on TV? Or, do you spend most of the time being a tourist and traveling from stage to stage? In the mountain stages it seems as if you need to arrive very early to get a decent spot.

* I thank God every day for Versus. The ESPN coverage was better than nothing, but it doesn't compare to the show that Versus does. IIRC, ESPN used to do a half hour most days (with clueless commentators), and then on Sundays another network had the rights and would do an hour recap of the week.

+1 Let us know what happens behind the scenes. Are the trail cars picking up all the signs and immediately hauling them to the next destination. It sure seems like a number of the fans chasing the riders down the road are drunk out of their minds. What's life like before and after those couple of minutes.

Watching Versus I can't imagine how being there measures up. I also can't imagine how one gets to the side of the road in the mountains given the crowds and how small the roads can be. It must be just nuts.

I thought today's stage lived up to expectations. It proved that Team Astana is the class of this year's tour. What I can't decide is whether Contador is as superior to Armstrong as today's race hinted that he might be, or whether Armstrong simply rode like the wily old pro he is. Anyway, things promise to become still more interesting as the Tour proceeds through the Alps.

The pictures were as beautiful today as they have been, which is to say, they were stunning. I'm going to go into withdrawal during tomorrow's off day.:)

It's Contador's race to lose now.

It's Contador's race to lose now.
Based on Armstrong's post race comments, which I had not seen when I posted before, this year's Tour may well be Contador's to lose now.

What Armstrong said left me with the impression that he is conceding that he no longer has the ability to try to beat Contador. That said, Armstrong is a sly old fox, so I am not yet ready to write him off. Despite having won the Tour a couple of years ago, Contador apparently has a history of breaking in big events. I think we still have some fun stuff to see.

It's Contador's race to lose now.I think he could skip a stage and still win handily. :) Nobody has the climbing kick he has and it's easily worth 30-60 seconds (minimum) per hilltop finish. You knew it was over when Lance couldn't stay with Andy Schleck. Now for Lance the challenge is a podium finish... 3rd place is looking like a victory at this point.

+1 Let us know what happens behind the scenes. Are the trail cars picking up all the signs and immediately hauling them to the next destination. It sure seems like a number of the fans chasing the riders down the road are drunk out of their minds. What's life like before and after those couple of minutes.

Watching Versus I can't imagine how being there measures up. I also can't imagine how one gets to the side of the road in the mountains given the crowds and how small the roads can be. It must be just nuts.

All the finish line equipment is packed up into trucks within 2 hours of the riders crossing the finish line. I think they must have two sets.

The get to the mountains roads you can

Get a hotel the night before and walk down the course
Camp out the night before, either in a RV or a tent.
Park at the bottom and ride your bike up the hill (a lot of people do this).

The roads are usually closed early in the morning of the race so there is no chance of getting there on the day. It is as nuts as it looks on TV. Lots of campers with lots of six packs makes for a rowdy scene.

I think he could skip a stage and still win handily. :) Nobody has the climbing kick he has and it's easily worth 30-60 seconds (minimum) per hilltop finish. You knew it was over when Lance couldn't stay with Andy Schleck. Now for Lance the challenge is a podium finish... 3rd place is looking like a victory at this point.
This may be right but right now we can't know whether Schleck finished the Stage ahead of Armstrong because Armstrong couldn't keep up or, equally likely, because Armstrong made a tactical decision to conserve his strength. Armstrong obviously knew that Schleck, even by finishing ahead of Armstrong in the Stage, couldn't pass him in the standings and neither was going to get a stage win. I agree that Contador looks like the strongest rider in the Tour this year.

It's Contador's to lose if for no other reason that that Lance can't/won't attack his own teammate. If Alberto were riding for a different team the gap would now be smaller, and Lance would be taking every opportunity to chip away at it.

I don't know if he could win under those circumstances. Remember that if Contador were riding for another team, it would be a weaker team than Lance's.

But that's all smoke. It seems clear to me that Contador will have to blow up in a major way or have some act of god intervene if he isn't to win the Tour. The lame-ass TT coming up isn't going to change much, but there's enough climbing to come that he should just open up his lead.

Once that happens, it would be great if the team could usher Lance to a stage win, if he's still got his legs.

Meanwhile, Astana could Astana pull off a GC podium sweep? Too bad about Levi.

It's Contador's to lose if for no other reason that that Lance can't/won't attack his own teammate. If Alberto were riding for a different team the gap would now be smaller, and Lance would be taking every opportunity to chip away at it.I wanted to believe this when Alberto took off at the first mountain top finish. But I think it was all too clear that Lance had nothing for Alberto, Andy or any of the other top six or so finishers. Heck even his teammate pacing him to the finish left him once they got close to the line.

I could be wrong but you rarely see Lance dancing in the mountains as he did in his prime. He now looks more like Ullrich. :) Even if Lance didn't want to attack his teammate I don't see any reason why he wouldn't have shadowed Andy.

I think going for stage win in and of itself would be insulting outside of the TT. Sure George wanted his but Lance has seven good reasons why he doesn't have to try and be a glory seeker.

Charles, I had the same thought about Lance looking like Ullrich. Whenever they faced off in the mountains and Lance took off, Ullrich just couldn't chase quickly. They used to talk about him being like a big diesel engine that took awhile to get up to speed. The problem with Lance now, is that it seems as though he just can't react quickly. It would be nice to see Lance on the podium, but I don't see that happening if he plays the good teammate and gives it all for Alberto.

I don't know about Andy Schleck. He doesn't seem to be climbing nearly as well as he did last year. I don't recall him ever looking tired while climbing last year. Of course, that may be because he didn't have to keep up with Contador (who wasn't there). Schleck may lose a podium place in the TT. The profile looks relatively flat (one small 3rd category climb) and it is fairly long (40.5k).

Lance wasn't hanging back just because Contador is his teammate. That's why he didn't chase at first, but he didn't keep up with the others later. I'd like to see him on the podium, but I think he may be hindered by something he has no control over. This is the week we've been waiting for.

larry

You guys are probably right: he still looks strong, but tired. I don't think it's age alone -- there's a state of deep conditioning that you get into by racing year in and year out, and Lance isn't quite there.

Still, the fact that they are teammates really ties Armstrong's hands wrt Contador. You don't want your legacy clouded by accusations of poor sportsmanship. And we don't know: next year this may actually be the Livestrong team, and Lance the team owner will need Contador as a loyal employee.

If Lance rides next year, like he says he wants to, then he and Contador won't be on the same team. Lance won't be riding next year to not win unless he realizes that his body can't cash the checks his mind writes. :) If the latter, he probably won't ride. He's been somewhat coy the whole time this year. This week will give him info he needs on whether or not his time has come to quit or try one more time (with the proper preparation).

larry

I'm sure some of you ride out there. I feel that Lance still has the endurance to hang in the mountains he just lacks the explosive anaerobic capacity that he had when he was younger. IOW he can't attack as much as he used to? The same occurs with the field sprinters. They lose that extra snap in their legs they once had. Erik Zabel is another example. remember when Robbie Mc Ewen came into the pack. He would finish 2nd or 3rd in the sprints.

I'm sure some of you ride out there. I feel that Lance still has the endurance to hang in the mountains he just lacks the explosive anaerobic capacity that he had when he was younger. IOW he can't attack as much as he used to? The same occurs with the field sprinters. They lose that extra snap in their legs they once had. Erik Zabel is another example. remember when Robbie Mc Ewen came into the pack. He would finish 2nd or 3rd in the sprints.
I agree that Armstrong has probably lost a step since his last Tour win in 2005. After all, the guy is nearly 38 years old. I still think he might win another Tour this year but only if Contador makes a mistake and leaves him an opening to win with his head and his heart. Armstrong is not going to beat Contador head to head with only his legs and his lungs.

Lance seems to concede victory to A.C. in this clip after stage 15. Not that he isn't just playing a sly fox but he seems sincere.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf2009/news/story?id=4341080

I think the big issue in the team will turn out to be Lance vs Kloden. Looks to me like Contador will win the yellow jersey. Andy Schleck looked really strong, I expect him to be second, or at least be on the podium. I think Lance, Kloden and Wiggins will fight it out for the last podium position. Anyone ready for round 2 of Team Astana infighting?

After stage 16 today, Lance still has it!

Fantastic race with a punishing second climb and final descent to the finish that is just crazy with the speeds these guys go.

After stage 16 today, Lance still has it!

Fantastic race with a punishing second climb and final descent to the finish that is just crazy with the speeds these guys go.Yes, a very dramatic final climb. After Sunday's stage, when Schleck and Contador left Lance like they did, my first thought was that Lance just couldn't get to that gear, but in the back of my mind I wasn't really buying it, wondering if his tactic was simply to lure back riders who were not ready to hurt quite as much as it would take to go with the acceleration after so much earlier drive. It didn't surprise me at all when he stepped it up to come back across the gap because I knew he could take the pain, but it was fun to watch. I just didn't know how many he might be bringing with him. Turns out they lost Evans.

Very unfortunate crash that took Jens Voigt out of the tour. I read that he was unconscious for several minutes and suffered facial injuries - not to mention some hellacious road rash. I hope he's going to be okay. But now it's looking like an almost insurmountable challenge for the Schleck brothers to attack Contador. As long as Contador doesn't crack or suffer from dehydration or something, this looks like his tour. Wiggins could be his greatest threat.

Yes, a very dramatic final climb. After Sunday's stage, when Schleck and Contador left Lance like they did, my first thought was that Lance just couldn't get to that gear, but in the back of my mind I wasn't really buying it, wondering if his tactic was simply to lure back riders who were not ready to hurt quite as much as it would take to go with the acceleration after so much earlier drive. It didn't surprise me at all when he stepped it up to come back across the gap because I knew he could take the pain, but it was fun to watch. I just didn't know how many he might be bringing with him. Turns out they lost Evans.

Very unfortunate crash that took Jens Voigt out of the tour. I read that he was unconscious for several minutes and suffered facial injuries - not to mention some hellacious road rash. I hope he's going to be okay. But now it's looking like an almost insurmountable challenge for the Schleck brothers to attack Contador. As long as Contador doesn't crack or suffer from dehydration or something, this looks like his tour. Wiggins could be his greatest threat.
I agree that it was a great finish today. When Contador and Schleck broke away and Armstrong couldn't answer immediately, I thought it was because he couldn't. Silly me. Armstrong satisfied me that he is still one of the best riders in the world. He is still in second place, only 1:37 behind Contador. Tomorrow promises to be the toughest stage of the Tour and ANYTHING could happen.

Voight's fall reminded me of something I had figured out earlier: if a rider falls on a climb he risks losing the Tour but if he falls on a high speed descent he risks losing both the Tour and his life. The Tour de France is not for the faint of heart.

I read on a bicycling site that Lance twittered (or is the accepted term "tweeted"?) that he heard from Frank Schleck that Jens Voigt was OK. His worst injuries appear to be to his right arm, shoulder, and face.

Some pictures today's stage, with some shots of Jens at the end.
http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx?EventId=88232141

Slow motion video of the bike going through a dip while Jens' left hand was trying to grip down on the handlebar drop.
http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=33n926f&s=3

That is one heckuva long slide... Good thing that bump didn't take down anyone else.

Jens Voigt going down like that is a reminder how dangerous the tour can be.

If you watch the video carefully, it looks like his rear tire lost contact due to the pavement repair in that spot, and then the front wheel goes out from under him due to the weight shift and hitting the small bumps. Bad luck no doubt.

On some other message boards they say that Voigt has a broken cheekbone and stitches, etc. Very glad to hear that he is going to be okay.

After stage 16 today, Lance still has it!I'd like to think so but I'm not convinced. Why? Because if you noticed he wasn't the only rider who caught up. Andy's lead out guys blew up and there was no one else left to set the pace and Alberto was content to stay in the pack. I will say the scenery was the star today... simply glorious.

I will say the scenery was the star today... simply glorious. I thought so also! Incredible views. You see the 4 people walking on the one glacier/ice field? The weather station, too. How'd they build it? :)

Rumors flying about new team next year with Bruyneel and Nike/Livestrong as a sponsor. Contador going to a Spanish team. Most likely will be Lance's last chance.

larry

Lance now in fourth by less than half a minute with Contador holding first.
Time trial tomorrow and then it'll be hard for any changes at the top to Paris.

Time trial tomorrow and then it'll be hard for any changes at the top to Paris.

There is a HC mountain top finish on Mont Ventoux on Saturday, there can be plenty of changes from that.

There is a HC mountain top finish on Mont Ventoux on Saturday, there can be plenty of changes from that.
That's right. The HC finish of Saturday's stage means that we can't confidently predict a winner until after it is over, although Contador certainly appears to have the inside track.

Today's stage was, again, very interesting. I thought that Contador seriously underestimated the Schlecks when he broke away but couldn't stay away, with the result being that he dropped his own teammate, Andreas Kloden, from the lead group. That was a bad break for Kloden but probably didn't hurt Team Astana much in the grand scheme of things. It seems pretty clear now that Lance Armstrong can't beat Contador but he certainly still has a chance for a podium finish.

Contador proved today (and previously in the Pyrenees) that he isn't a team player. His attack was completely pointless and ended up shattering Kloden. Astana could have been first and second today if it wasn't for that attack. I think he also hurt Lance's chance at a podium finish.

Lance still has something special, just not as special as it used to be. He's now about 1:30 behind Andy Schleck and I think he should be able to gain that (or a bit more) tomorrow. However, he'll need to be spectacular on the Ventoux to get on the podium. I just can't see him getting better than third at the end, and I'd bet he ends up in fourth or fifth. Still an amazing feat.

Saturday's stage to that moonscape known as Ventoux will be amazing to watch. It is basically a hard uphill slog most of the way, and then it gets really tough at the end.

Edit: I forgot to mention Thor Hushovd's performance today. Absolutely amazing. I've never seen a sprinter climb like he did today. He clearly deserves the green jersey, though I thought Cavendish being relegated the other day was unfair.

Contador proved today (and previously in the Pyrenees) that he isn't a team player. His attack was completely pointless and ended up shattering Kloden. Astana could have been first and second today if it wasn't for that attack. I think he also hurt Lance's chance at a podium finish.

Lance still has something special, just not as special as it used to be. He's now about 1:30 behind Andy Schleck and I think he should be able to gain that (or a bit more) tomorrow. However, he'll need to be spectacular on the Ventoux to get on the podium. I just can't see him getting better than third at the end, and I'd bet he ends up in fourth or fifth. Still an amazing feat.

Saturday's stage to that moonscape known as Ventoux will be amazing to watch. It is basically a hard uphill slog most of the way, and then it gets really tough at the end.

Edit: I forgot to mention Thor Hushovd's performance today. Absolutely amazing. I've never seen a sprinter climb like he did today. He clearly deserves the green jersey, though I thought Cavendish being relegated the other day was unfair.
I agree that Contador isn't a team player. In fact, his judgment stinks. Fortunately for him, though, his physical skills are so great he hasn't hurt himself with his rashness. I would call Contador "arrogant," except that most world class road racers seem to be arrogant. If they weren't, I guess they couldn't do what they do.

Armstrong is only 30 seconds behind Frank Schleck so he might be able to overcome that in the time trial and retake third place. He is behind Andy Schleck by 1:29 for second, so I suppose that is dooable, too, but less likely. Anyway, it's going to be another interesting day.

I agree that Hushovd did a remarkable job. That he could haul his big body (6 feet, 180 pounds) over those mountains in the lead was a testament to how incredibly strong he is. Despite his somewhat tainted win over Cavendish after Cavendish's disqualification, Hushovd earned the green jersey yesterday.

Best stage I've seen a while yesterday. Nice scenery too. Standings will probably shift some today making Saturday's stage do or die for some folks to get on the podium.

Announcement is supposed to come tonight on new team with Radio Shack/Tandy rumored to be sponsor.

larry

Versus is screwing up this time trial. As if it's not bad that their annoying graphics are taking up too much of the screen, THEY'RE WRONG. VS's stop watch is at times more than a ten seconds off, leaving viewers clueless as to what time each rider crosses each checkpoint. It is especially worse off in this stage where each second is very valuable.

Please use the host graphics!

Contador is the man! He is the new Lance. He'll be getting a hefty paycheck from some team next year. Lance will get a podium finish if he can keep in check on Saturday.

Why are they using there own graphics? The host graphics are so much better. Today it was impossible to tell who was winning and losing at the finish line and time checks.

Why are they using there own graphics? The host graphics are so much better.

I guess they prefer them in English rather then French.

Team RadioShack: http://www.teamradioshack.com/getready/ (not much of a site yet)
Press release: http://ir.radioshackcorporation.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=398636

Sorry for slight OT.

larry

Contador is the man! He is the new Lance. He'll be getting a hefty paycheck from some team next year. Lance will get a podium finish if he can keep in check on Saturday.
I agree that Contador has been dominant in this Tour, as much so as Armstrong was during his glory years. I had posted that I thought Armstrong had a good chance to catch Frank Schleck and he did it. I had hoped that he might pass Andy Schleck, too, but it was not to be. Armstrong is still a great rider but no longer a dominant one.

It's going to be interesting to see what kind of riders Armstrong will be able to attract to his new Radio Shack team. Armstrong has performed creditably in this Tour but he is VERY old by professional cycling standards so, despite what he has been saying, it seems to me that Armstrong will be hard pressed to match this year's performance in next Year's Tour, let alone exceed it.

EDIT: Just found this on the Telegraph.co.uk Web site (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/5881084/Johan-Bruyneel-to-stand-down-as-Astana-team-manager.html). Money quote: "Rumours at the Tour de France suggest Bruyneel may launch a new team with Armstrong as his leader." This certainly seems to suggest that Johan Bruyneel, a very smart guy by any measure, will be the new Radio Shack team's manager.

The rumor is that Johan Bruyneel will run the team, and Levi Leiphiemer and Chris Horner will ride for the Team.

I'd be surprised if Johan doesn't run the team. IIRC, he and Lance have been together since 1999. Also, I think that Phil mentioned today that Johan had a falling out with Astana's owners and won't return to the team next year. So, he's available.

Contador really put his stamp on the race today, but I knew he could time trial (not quite that well, though). Andy Schleck was the real revelation today. I didn't think that he had it in him. Last year I figured that he was a future Tour winner. Now, I'm sure of it. The only question is when. If Alberto finds himself on a weaker team next year, which he will, then Andy will have a great shot.

Lance has only got 34 seconds on Frank Schleck, so he'll need to hold that on Saturday. It will be interesting to see if he can. Clearly, both Schlecks are going to be motivated for second and third, and they just might cause some major havoc. This will be Alberto's last chance to be a good teammate for Lance.

This is the first TDF that I've really followed closely, catching most of the broadcasts. At first the low quality of some HD shots bothered me until I realized from this thread that they were the motorcycle shots relayed to the helicopter and passed on. Pretty impressive technology. The views are astounding from the chopper and the action on the roads has been mesmerizing.

I cannot believe how the drunken fans can crowd the roads, especially on the climbs, to the point that cyclists have to manuever around them. And what's with all the drunks running alongside the competitors, creating unnecessary hazards, or at least distractions to the cyclists?

The HD seem to get better after the first day or two. The prologue was had some cams that were not as good as the others. Later in the week and for most of what I've seen it got better. Weather and obstruction breakups can't be helped. It's about time we get to see it in HD.

larry

Why are they using there own graphics? The host graphics are so much better. Today it was impossible to tell who was winning and losing at the finish line and time checks.

Definitely agree, the Versus graphics are horrible. Sometimes they would show the host graphics (much better) by mistake. With the Versus graphics I had no clue on what was happening in the time trial. Even NBC at the Winter Olympics Cross Country Skiing, can do a better job.

I cannot believe how the drunken fans can crowd the roads, especially on the climbs, to the point that cyclists have to manuever around them. And what's with all the drunks running alongside the competitors, creating unnecessary hazards, or at least distractions to the cyclists?

It's been a problem for as long as there have been road races. Eddy Merckx was assaulted by a "fan" during Le Tour back in the early 1970's. Given the distances the races run, it would be extremely expensive to set up barriers over the entire route. You'll notice barriers close to the finish line since that's where the peloton tends to bunch up for sprints.

I've also been enjoying the race, though I know very little about cycling.

The views are great and I find the competition and the drama very interesting.

I'm still trying to figure out the whole team strategy thing and I'm surprised how much of an effect traveling in a pack really has (drafting?).

Also, I hope this isn't a silly question, but has anyone ever actually wiped out and fallen off of a cliff?

With the guy who wiped out the other day on the downhill, it seems as if he was a little closer to the edge, he easily could have skid right off the mountain.

I know I'd probably be scared just to walk down that mountain without rails there.

I'm still trying to figure out the whole team strategy thing and I'm surprised how much of an effect traveling in a pack really has (drafting?). Behind just one person you can save around 15% of energy. In the pack I believe it's closer to 30%.

larry

Also, I hope this isn't a silly question, but has anyone ever actually wiped out and fallen off of a cliff?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_cyclists_who_died_during_a_race

IIRC, some riders have been clocked at close to 70mph while descending. It's been a while since I heard that but it doesn't seem unreasonable.

larry

Also, I hope this isn't a silly question, but has anyone ever actually wiped out and fallen off of a cliff?


Jan Ullrich in the 2001 tour http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EK3rLPZk0A

IIRC, some riders have been clocked at close to 70mph while descending. It's been a while since I heard that but it doesn't seem unreasonable
I think that's 70 kilometers per hour, based on what I heard the commentators saying during some of the mountain stages. Be warned, though, I don't know whether what they said is right or wrong. Whatever it is, it's really fast and really dangerous.

I think that's 70 kilometers per hour, based on what I heard the commentators saying during some of the mountain stages. Be warned, though, I don't know whether what they said is right or wrong. Whatever it is, it's really fast and really dangerous.


That would only be 43.495 miles per hour. On some of the downhill descents they can hit into the 60+ mph range, and I have read of occasions where someone has hit 70mph. Rare but possible.

70kph is about 43.75mph (using 6.25 miles per 10km). Sprinters can hit that quite easily. I've gone over 50mph downhill on a bicycle. Scary! :) I was a lot younger too.

larry

Edit: oops, post collision.

So where will Lance wind up? Winning is pretty much out of the question (4:33 behind with 2 stages left, only if a miracle occurs).

Besides the timing graphics, the other thing I've been disappointed with is the tech shorts... the short segments where they show the bike technology. They continue playing the music while they're talking so it's hard to understand what's being said. I've been watching for several years and this is the first I can recall they've done this.

So where will Lance wind up? Winning is pretty much out of the question (4:33 behind with 2 stages left, only if a miracle occurs).You might well know but it's against the rules to race for position on the Paris stage except for the sprinters of course.

You might well know but it's against the rules to race for position on the Paris stage except for the sprinters of course.

No, it's not. It's considered bad form (and won't happen) but it's not against the rules.

I've always wondered about the final stage into Paris.

Lets say someone only had a 5 second lead for first place. If I were the second place rider, it would be tempting to let er rip!

No doubt tomorrow will decide where all the pieces fall with the climb up Mont Ventoux. I'm getting up early on the west coast to watch this one live. Should be fun.

Looks like Filippo Simeoni bolted from the peloton during the final stage in the 2004 TDF.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_Simeoni

Looks like Filippo Simeoni bolted from the peloton during the final stage in the 2004 TDF.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_SimeoniI remember that well and as the rules go Armstrong put him in his place.

...right up there with the Beijing ceremonies.

I've had an HD rig for eight years now, and followed Versus' Tour coverage for the past five, including Landis' amazing moutain leg. It's always been fun to ride down the mountain on a motorcycle without leaving the room.

But this video we're seeing now from France is the most immersive and arresting sight I've seen yet on TV. It's true that the subject matter is visually compelling, but I don't think enough credit is given to the masterful composition and artistry from camera crew, both in the helicopter and on the bikes. Those rising, sweeping views over Annecy were incredible.

What a finish on the climb up Mont Ventoux!! Damn I'm tired from just watching the attacks by the Schleck bros. Those boys must eat their wheaties.:) Great performances from all of the top riders battling it out on the final climb.

But this video we're seeing now from France is the most immersive and arresting sight I've seen yet on TV. It's true that the subject matter is visually compelling, but I don't think enough credit is given to the masterful composition and artistry from camera crew, both in the helicopter and on the bikes. Those rising, sweeping views over Annecy were incredible.
I agree. The HD coverage of this year's tour could hardly have been better, either technically or artistically. Today's coverage of the final climb was remarkable, given its windswept remoteness. It would be an understatement to call the summit of Mont Ventoux "barren."

Despite Lance Armstrong's inability to dominate as he once did, which I admit was a disappointment to me, he is still an elite rider, as his impending third place finish in this Year's Tour has shown. I have loved the Tour and its coverage this year and anxiously look forward to next year to see how Armstrong's new Radio Shack team fares.

I think it's a safe bet that Contador won't be on Lance's new team next year based on the interview before today's stage. Lance proved he still has something at age 37 by keeping up with all the attacks today. A great tour with great pictures this year. The ceremonial ride to Paris tomorrow.

I think we should all say a big thank you to Versus for outstanding pictures and coverage of the Tour this year.

I've always wondered about the final stage into Paris.
Lets say someone only had a 5 second lead for first place. If I were the second place rider, it would be tempting to let er rip!


5 seconds does not sound like much, but the Paris stage is dead flat and you will be riding against the whole team of the leader, plus the teams with the good sprinters who want to win the stage, so its virttually imposible.

Breakaways can get away on the early stages in the tour because the teams want to save their energy for the next days stage, but on the final stage they will always chase down the breakaway.

I cannot believe how the drunken fans can crowd the roads, especially on the climbs, to the point that cyclists have to manuever around them. And what's with all the drunks running alongside the competitors, creating unnecessary hazards, or at least distractions to the cyclists?
That's part of the race, and some of them are there every year (e.g., the devil). Lance once nearly lost to Ullrich due to a young boy holding a musette. His handlebar got snagged and he went down hard. IIRC, he got up and won the stage (not sure, though).

My favorite "fan interaction" of all time was when Guerini plowed into "Erik the Photographer".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92xoz4OflxQ

Edit: Found the Lance vs Musette video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrltVHjghsk

That's part of the race, and some of them are there every year (e.g., the devil). Lance once nearly lost to Ullrich due to a young boy holding a musette. His handlebar got snagged and he went down hard. IIRC, he got up and won the stage (not sure, though).


But in that instance there was a barrier, and Lance conceded he was riding too close to it.

The fans are very scary, but when you watch the shots from behind the riders keep in mind that the very long lenses being used foreshorten the image quite a bit, making it look even worse than it really is. But there was one chopper shot today that made the riders look like an ice breaker plowing through pack ice in the arctic. By far the most formidable crowds I've seen in years of watching road racing.

Considering that some of these people have been waiting for days for their moment to be seen on international TV running alongside the racers, and the sort of liquid fortitude likely driving their ambitions, the fact that essentially the race organizers are simply trusting every single one of those people not to do something stupid or malevolent -- and that year after year, that trust is rewarded by a lack of serious fan/rider incidents -- is some sort of miracle.

Did anyone notice the grey in Lance's hair during the interviews?

CBS has a one-hour recap of the race today. Apparently not in HD?

PQ today seems to have more compression that it has recently. That's too bad. Great race, looking forward to next year already.

larry

I agree about the poor PQ. It started yesterday and continued today. During the week it was fine. I e-mailed Verus HD to complain: feedback@versus.com

I wonder if it had anything to do with being a weekend. The tour started on a weekend and the PQ was about the same as today. When I watched later in the first week I noticed it being better and other weekdays the PQ was quite good. Even the shots of the weather station they replayed today from this week didn't look as good as when they were first aired. I don't recall last weekend's coverage, so I can't say if it was a trend.

larry

I wonder if it had anything to do with being a weekend. The tour started on a weekend and the PQ was about the same as today. When I watched later in the first week I noticed it being better and other weekdays the PQ was quite good. Even the shots of the weather station they replayed today from this week didn't look as good as when they were first aired. I don't recall last weekend's coverage, so I can't say if it was a trend.
I thought the studio shots looked as good as ever but agree that the video from the motorcycles and helicopters sometimes showed signs of compression.

I too having just gotten a hdtv thought that the tour during the weekdays was probably the best sporting event since I got the tv. Well not trying to start any war but it was a beautiful picture.

I can not wait to see what college football looks like!

I thought the studio shots looked as good as ever but agree that the video from the motorcycles and helicopters sometimes showed signs of compression.I also saw lots and lots of blocking on Versus HD for the Tour, and the same for the Indy Car race today. It's a 3:1 QAM channel on my Comcast system. Fortunately for me, hockey isn't as demanding.

I also saw lots and lots of blocking on Versus HD for the Tour, and the same for the Indy Car race today. It's a 3:1 QAM channel on my Comcast system. Fortunately for me, hockey isn't as demanding.
Yeah, the Versus coverage of the Indy car race from Edmonton was a classic demonstration that all HD is not created equal. I saw a lot of the same kind of shimmering we used to get from hand held cameras in the early days of HD golf coverage during the race coverage, which made me appreciate all the more how wonderful most of the HD images from this year's Tour were. I'm already missing it.:)

CBS has a one-hour recap of the race today. Apparently not in HD?

It was in HD.

The image seemed to get worse about half way through the Mont Vontue stage on Saturday morning, but the studio shots still looked great.

It was in HD.

Where did CBS get that HD footage? Some of it was good but mostly it was awful. They had 5-second clips of helicopter shots that looked HD, and a few racing shots that were at least close to HD quality, but most of the racing was SD quality or below. I turned it off before the end.

CBS recently showed a 1962 episode of "Shell's Wonderful World of Golf" that looked better than their 2009 coverage of TdF.

I turned it off before the end.Without Phil and Paul it isn't a Tour de France. I'd listen to them on the radio over pristine HD with other announcers. :)

http://www.wordsdept.co.uk/2009/07/23/phil-liggett-and-paul-sherwen-tour-de-france-commentary-genius/

Paul and Phil are why I DVR the live stage coverage versus the "enhanced" coverage at night with Bob Roll and Craig Hummer. They are part and parcel of the TdF in my book.

Where did CBS get that HD footage?

Versus produced the show for CBS.

Yeah, the Versus coverage of the Indy car race from Edmonton was a classic demonstration that all HD is not created equal. I saw a lot of the same kind of shimmering we used to get from hand held cameras in the early days of HD golf coverage during the race coverage, which made me appreciate all the more how wonderful most of the HD images from this year's Tour were. I'm already missing it.:)

I noticed the shimmer at the Indy car race, too. Now if a bike race out in the country has some problems, well that's to be expected. The Spring bike race in California had picture problems also. I didn't expect to see so many problems as they entered Paris though.

Just who is Craig Hummer? What did he do before covering bike races?

Versus produced the show for CBS.

I thought NBC did a better job at the Beijing Olympics even though the HD quality was less than perfect because at least they were consistent throughout the whole race.

Just who is Craig Hummer? What did he do before covering bike races?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Hummer

Just who is Craig Hummer? What did he do before covering bike races?

Some of you probably remember the bad old days when OLN would hire a "professional anchor" just for the TdF. Such people rarely know much about cycling, and it showed. Kirsten Gumm and Al Troutwig, I'm looking at you!

Looks like the Astana team's tension is starting to come out: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090728/ap_on_sp_ot/cyc_contador_armstrong

Some of you probably remember the bad old days when OLN would hire a "professional anchor" just for the TdF. Such people rarely know much about cycling, and it showed. Kirsten Gumm and Al Troutwig, I'm looking at you!
Right, but at least Kirsten was cute. There was no excuse for Troutwig.

Looks like the Astana team's tension is starting to come out: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090728/ap_on_sp_ot/cyc_contador_armstrong

"My relationship with Lance Armstrong is zero," Contador said late Monday in his hometown of Pinto outside Madrid. "He's a great rider and he did a great Tour. Another thing is on a personal level, where I have never admired him and never will."
I'm not surprised to hear that, especially given their apparent feud during the race. I have always heard that Lance was pretty arrogant and very much disliked in his early days (pre-cancer).

Without Phil and Paul it isn't a Tour de France. I'd listen to them on the radio over pristine HD with other announcers. :)

http://www.wordsdept.co.uk/2009/07/23/phil-liggett-and-paul-sherwen-tour-de-france-commentary-genius/

Agree - Fantastic that year

I'm not surprised to hear that, especially given their apparent feud during the race. I have always heard that Lance was pretty arrogant and very much disliked in his early days (pre-cancer).I don't think it was Lance that arguably gave away a 1, 2, 3 finish for his team.

Well, Lance and Alberto don't have to co-exist much longer, if any more. Rumor mill is buzzing about Lance going after Andy Schleck. Think about it. Makes a lot of sense.

larry

I don't think it was Lance that arguably gave away a 1, 2, 3 finish for his team.
Indeed, Contador is a classic example of the proverbial million dollar body and ten cent head.

I don't think it was Lance that arguably gave away a 1, 2, 3 finish for his team.
No argument about that. It was clearly Contador who screwed that up. I was simply commenting on the fact that Alberto doesn't like Lance on a personal level, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if that is because of Lance's personality. I'm sure that they are both prima donnas to some extent, so a clash was probably inevitable.

Well, Lance and Alberto don't have to co-exist much longer, if any more. Rumor mill is buzzing about Lance going after Andy Schleck. Think about it. Makes a lot of sense.

larry

Andy Schleck joining Lance's team does not make sense to me, at least from Andy's POV. Andy will lead his own team and be a rival to Lance. Why would Andy want to be Lance's lieutenant when he can lead a team himself?
Unless Lance is just looking for another podium position next year and isn't planning to win it... I don't think that's the case.
Plus, I would think that bringing Andy over means you also have to take his brother, Frank (which is not a bad thing, Frank's really good, just not good enough to win the Tour. This would be a non-issue if two slots are open on the team anyway).

Andy Schleck joining Lance's team does not make sense to me, at least from Andy's POV. Andy will lead his own team and be a rival to Lance. Why would Andy want to be Lance's lieutenant when he can lead a team himself?
Unless Lance is just looking for another podium position next year and isn't planning to win it... I don't think that's the case.
Plus, I would think that bringing Andy over means you also have to take his brother, Frank (which is not a bad thing, Frank's really good, just not good enough to win the Tour. This would be a non-issue if two slots are open on the team anyway).
I agree that Andy Schleck is not a viable possibility for Team Radio Shack, as long as Lance wants the team to support his quest for another yellow jersey for himself. On the other hand, if he is willing to relegate himself to being a domestique (unlikely) then I suppose it's possible that Schleck might end up as a member of the team.

I was simply commenting on the fact that Alberto doesn't like Lance on a personal level, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if that is because of Lance's personality. I'm sure that they are both prima donnas to some extent, so a clash was probably inevitable.I agree there was plenty of tension with Lance returning. I just thing it's funny that Alberto had to strike a blow at Lance. What purpose did it serve?

My guess is it's pure jealousy. Without doubt Alberto is the best rider and he wants to be treated accordingly and have the acclaim that comes from it. Now with the tour's ratings up worldwide 50-60% (presumably the results of Lance's return), endless press, clearly leading the team (watch the team time trial), and numerous other reminders he clearly feels cheated.

Andy Schleck joining Lance's team does not make sense to me, at least from Andy's POV.I think it can make a lot of sense. How much time did Andy lose to Alberto in the Team Time Trial? Andy can only hope his time trial and climbing abilities continue to improve as he gets older which one would expect. At the same time I don't see Alberto not improving just look at his own time trial improvement.

To beat Alberto you are probably going to have to be on the best team including the best time trial team. Lance has proven year after year he can deliver the best team and that might be Andy's only hope of winning.

I agree there was plenty of tension with Lance returning. I just thing it's funny that Alberto had to strike a blow at Lance. What purpose did it serve?

My guess is it's pure jealousy. Without doubt Alberto is the best rider and he wants to be treated accordingly and have the acclaim that comes from it. Now with the tour's ratings up worldwide 50-60% (presumably the results of Lance's return), endless press, clearly leading the team (watch the team time trial), and numerous other reminders he clearly feels cheated.
It may well be that Contador feels cheated because he thinks that Armstrong's return somehow diminished his glory. If that is his attitude it is all of a piece with Contador's other demonstrations of bad judgment. The simple fact is that Armstrong's return and his international rock star status made the Tour de France exponentially more popular worldwide this year than it had been at any time since Armstrong last rode in it, in 2005.

Contador is a household name now, thanks mostly to Lance Armstrong, it seems to me. I suggest that no one but hard core bicycle racing fans had the slightest idea who Contador was until, thanks to Lance, they saw him in this year's Tour. That was certainly true in my case. But does Contador get it? Nah -- not that his cluelessness comes as a surprise.

It may well be that Contador feels cheated because he thinks that Armstrong's return somehow diminished his glory. If that is his attitude it is all of a piece with Contador's other demonstrations of bad judgment. The simple fact is that Armstrong's return and his international rock star status made the Tour de France exponentially more popular worldwide this year than it had been at any time since Armstrong last rode in it, in 2005.

Contador is a household name now, thanks mostly to Lance Armstrong, it seems to me. I suggest that no one but hard core bicycle racing fans had the slightest idea who Contador was until, thanks to Lance, they saw him in this year's Tour. That was certainly true in my case. But does Contador get it? Nah -- not that his cluelessness comes as a surprise.

Makes me think of Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan. Maybe next year people will be tuning in when Versus pushes the GRUDGE match.

As illegal as it was what Tonya had done to Nancy it made her career and the sport ever since.

To beat Alberto you are probably going to have to be on the best team including the best time trial team.

There is not a TTT every year in the TDF. This year was the first year they had it since 2004.

I dunno. He's hired by Bruyneel to be a GC contender, first for Discovery and then for Astana. In 2007 he wins the Tour. In 2008 he can't ride in the TdF because Astana is disqualified due to doping issues that had nothing to do with him. In 2009 Bruyneel hires his old pal Lance who immediately and inevitably becomes the center of attention.

If Contador feels ill-served by his team, I think he may have a point.

I wonder why all his ire is reserved for Lance. It seems to me that perhaps Mr. Bruyneel is the real villain in Alberto's drama.

There is not a TTT every year in the TDF. This year was the first year they had it since 2004.True. But this year they didn't even limit your team's loss to two minutes or whatever... which they did when Lance's team kicked butt. Who's to say it won't be back next year. Regardless being a strong team isn't only an advantage during a Team Time Trial.

Lance came back to the team for free and I don't follow it that closely but at one time he had a deal in place to own a good portion of it (I'm presuming regardless of who the sponsor may be). I found it interesting during the first few hours of the final stage (when they do more chatting than cycling) when I saw Lance chatting with numerous riders and it appeared to be on a personal basis. At the same time I saw Alberto hardly talking with anyone and it appeared to be on a casual basis at best.

My only point on the matter is I feel Alberto's comments did him more harm than good. It placed him more in his remarks.... Another thing is on a personal level, where I have never admired him and never will. than Lance.

Even though the chances of Andy being on Team RadioShack are slim, it makes (or made) for interesting conjecture. From the Lance vs Alberto point of view there can be the theory that Lance knows that there's probably no way he can beat Alberto. So, if there is a personal riff between them, Andy would be an excellent young rider to "nurture" (Alberto was just a climber at one time) and hopefully beat Alberto and keep him from getting close(r) to the "5 yellows club" and/or just to see Alberto lose. Saxo Bank has a good team, but chances are so will Lance, which is a necessity to win a Tour. Then there's Bruyneel.

Personsally, I don't think Lance can beat Alberto now. If Lance put 100% focus on next year's tour, I wouldn't bet on him, but it would still be very difficult and close if he did manage to pull it off. Also, this assumes Alberto is on a decent team, too. But, Lance would have to drop most of his Livestrong campaigning and other stuff to focus. That may prove difficult.

Lots of fun speculating. :)

larry

Even though the chances of Andy being on Team RadioShack are slim, it makes (or made) for interesting conjecture. From the Lance vs Alberto point of view there can be the theory that Lance knows that there's probably no way he can beat Alberto. So, if there is a personal riff between them, Andy would be an excellent young rider to "nurture" (Alberto was just a climber at one time) and hopefully beat Alberto and keep him from getting close(r) to the "5 yellows club" and/or just to see Alberto lose. Saxo Bank has a good team, but chances are so will Lance, which is a necessity to win a Tour. Then there's Bruyneel.

Personsally, I don't think Lance can beat Alberto now. If Lance put 100% focus on next year's tour, I wouldn't bet on him, but it would still be very difficult and close if he did manage to pull it off. Also, this assumes Alberto is on a decent team, too. But, Lance would have to drop most of his Livestrong campaigning and other stuff to focus. That may prove difficult.

Lots of fun speculating. :)
There is lots of speculating, indeed. The smart money certainly favors the proposition that Armstrong is too far past his prime to defeat Contador. Still, in this year's Tour he had come back from three full seasons of inactivity and a recently broken collar bone and still finished in third place. When that is factored in with Armstrong's legendary competitiveness and intelligence, it leaves me with at least a ray of hope that he might win the 2010 Tour, despite being another year older.

The tour can be won or lost mentally as well as physically. Add to that the fact that with advances is training and musculoskeletal science, 37 or 38 is not disadvantaged as much for a top-level athlete as it once was.

Lance knew he lacked top-end performance on the steep climbs. Also, his aerodynamic position for the time trials was not as solid this year as it had been in the past. I believe he will be attacking these "weaknesses" with a vengeance for the next tour.

There are minutes to be gained, but Contador will be better and more experienced as well. A single lapse of judgment or attentiveness (an area Lance is unmatched in) can completely negate AC's edge.

I can't wait to see the showdown - it could have twice the drama.

There are minutes to be gained, but Contador will be better and more experienced as well. A single lapse of judgment or attentiveness (an area Lance is unmatched in) can completely negate AC's edge.

I can't wait to see the showdown - it could have twice the drama.
Agreed. If Armstrong wins the 2110 Tour he will do it by outthinking Contador, not by outmuscling him.

Here, fixed it for ya.

Agreed. If Armstrong wins the 2110 Tour he will do it by out-drugging Contador, not by outmuscling him.

Now thats just mean gameboy;)

Next year will be very interesting, and I look forward to it.

I think the point of all the supposed conflict and such is to drive interest in cycling and the tour. Looks like it's working...

There is lots of speculating, indeed. The smart money certainly favors the proposition that Armstrong is too far past his prime to defeat Contador. Still, in this year's Tour he had come back from three full seasons of inactivity and a recently broken collar bone and still finished in third place. When that is factored in with Armstrong's legendary competitiveness and intelligence, it leaves me with at least a ray of hope that he might win the 2010 Tour, despite being another year older.

Lance couldn't beat Alberto one on one, but the teams each has around them will make all the difference next year.

Lance couldn't beat Alberto one on one, but the teams each has around them will make all the difference next year.

Yes. The team is a very big part of it. Alberto "barely broke a sweat" except for the TTs and the one mountain stage where he picked up time. It will be interesting to see where Alberto lands and who will be supporting him.

larry

Lance couldn't beat Alberto one on one, but the teams each has around them will make all the difference next year.Outside of the team time trial I tend to think the team's value is overrated (somewhat). The top riders (all of the potential winners) ride next to each other virtually the entire time... worse case is you sit on the challenger's or leader's back wheel.

I'm not saying team's strategies can't be beneficial. Such as when they pull back breakaways or attempt to pressure a rider by attacking him with different teammates. But overall I see the team's value more helpful in cutting loses versus creating wins (sprints excluded).

If you are the strongest rider as Phil and Paul have commented before simply act like are a member of the strongest team. They pretty much do as much now as all of the contenders ride together.

I think if the riders are of equal talent then the team matters quite a bit. Except in this case (at least for this year) Alberto was far stronger in the time trials and climbing and if he was a team of one (wasn't he anyway :)) he would have won by several more minutes.

I'd still like to know why the team attacks on Goerge Hincapie. Did Garmin have ill will against Columbia HTC? I'm saddened that nobody from the U.S.A. ever won a stage or took over the gold jersey. I'm still trying to understand the strategy and logic of team racing. I did love the early audio and video in the early morning here on the west coast. I actually woke up early on my vacation to watch this.

I'd still like to know why the team attacks on Goerge Hincapie. Did Garmin have ill will against Columbia HTC?Early on Astana was happy to give George the yellow jersey but wanted to keep the time manageable. Supposedly Garmin didn't want another American team getting the publicity so when it looked like he could get caught they went for it. Once they were close his own team killed what hope he had via the lead out for Cavendish's sprint.

My favorite was when Lance told Floyd Landis "Ride like you just stole something"... when he tried to give him a stage win after he helped Lance cliimb every mountain in France. :)

Lance Armstrong to Floyd Landis, as they crested the day's last climb, with 8 miles to ride:

“How bad do you want to win a stage of the Tour de France?”

“Real bad,” came Floyd’s reply.

“How fast can you go down a hill?”

“Real fast!”

“So,” concluded Armstrong, “run like you stole something!”

Landis did just that. He jumped away soon after passing the summit and pounded down the long and twisting decent through the town of La Clusaz to the finish. The only rider to give chase was Ullrich.

Armstrong's yellow jersey quickly came in sight though, and just after Landis was caught, the Texan was on Ullrich's wheel.

"I was dropped," Armstrong said afterward. "I was trying to take it easy and be careful, but Jan was tring to make up time on (Ivan) Basso, and Basso was dropped. Basso was also with Klöden, so to me it was in Jan's interest to do the work."

Basso and Klöden soon followed. But Landis was not yet finished with taking advantage of his free rein.

With 1.5km to go, the California-based rider broke free again but once more was chased by Ullrich, desperate for a stage win and to get time on Basso and to win a time bonus in the fight for a podium spot.

Then, when the five regrouped and with one kilometer still to go, Klöden bolted free and looked like stealing the Postal thunder — that is, until Armstrong unleashed his rage with 250 meters to go.

As Klöden wrestled with his pedals to try and scrape home, Armstrong — out of the saddle and lunged over his handlebars — closed in with every pedal stroke.

Catching the German near the line and then crossing it with arms aloft, this win meant much for Armstrong — although not half as much as what it would have been had Landis won.

http://velonews.com/article/6638

Early on Astana was happy to give George the yellow jersey but wanted to keep the time manageable. Supposedly Garmin didn't want another American team getting the publicity so when it looked like he could get caught they went for it. Once they were close his own team killed what hope he had via the lead out for Cavendish's sprint.
I really believe Garmin didn't specifically want to keep Hincapie out of the yellow for publicity reasons, but they did want to keep Hincapie out of yellow. As Johan Bruyneel mentioned, if Hincapie took yellow, it would have been perfect for Astana. He thought that Columbia would do the work in the mountain stage the next day to try and keep George in yellow longer. For a team like Garmin (and also for Cadel Evans, who moved to the front with one of his teammates to help close the gap briefly), they didn't want to see this happen. They *wanted* Astana to have to control the race the next day, and hopefully weaken a lot of the Astana domestiques. That's what happened. Good tactics, IMO. We wouldn't have been talking about it if it was anyone other than George. I would have loved to see George in yellow, though.

I really believe Garmin didn't specifically want to keep Hincapie out of the yellow for publicity reasons, but they did want to keep Hincapie out of yellow.

"Garmin just wanted to prevent another American team from taking the yellow jersey. It's not right," Astana manager Johan Bruyneel said. "It's not very sporting.

Bruyneel: “(Ag2r) had been working already a lot the whole Tour and they were blowing up. But when I saw Garmin coming to the front, that’s something that tactically I don’t really understand. I don’t think that has anything to do with the race, or defending your own interest, or your future strategy.”

"Garmin just wanted to prevent another American team from taking the yellow jersey. It's not right," Astana manager Johan Bruyneel said. "It's not very sporting.

Johan Bruyneel: "When we saw George was in there, it was definitely our intention to keep the gap so that George could eventually take the jersey. [...] It would have been nice for him personally, and also for our own tactics it would have been good because I was pretty sure that if he took the jersey that tomorrow Columbia would defend the jersey or try to control the race."
(this is not the only interview where he said it would have been perfect for Astana and relieved the stress on the team)

Lance Armstrong: "The scenario of George in yellow was perfect for our team. His team would have ridden (at the front) all day tomorrow. It’s exactly what we wanted."

Which is exactly why Garmin didn't want Hincapie in yellow. Same reason Cadel Evans and a teammate led the chase for a bit. Plus, at the end of the day, Hincapie messed around a bit towards the end with the other breakaway mates, which ultimately also helped cost him the jersey.

Now, the publicity reason might still be there. Who knows. But all I know is there was a good *tactical* reason to keep Hincapie out of the yellow: keep the pressure on Astana to control the race (AG2R was incapable of controlling the race through the mountains).

Now, the publicity reason might still be there. Who knows.Of course we have an uneducated guess at best and there are many reasons and or excuses. But at the end of day combining all of the factors I'll go with the two quotes from Bruyneel...

"Garmin just wanted to prevent another American team from taking the yellow jersey."

"But when I saw Garmin coming to the front, that’s something that tactically I don’t really understand. I don’t think that has anything to do with the race, or defending your own interest, or your future strategy."

After all he has won a few more yellow jerseys than me. :) Regarding tactics if it was their desire to keep George out of yellow I think they would have played their hand earlier. If not they did a very lousy job as it ended up being George's own team keeping him out of yellow (leading out the final sprint).

My pure guess is all of a sudden they realized with a little effort they may be able to prevent George from getting yellow and they went for it. The ultimate blame goes to Cavendish. :)