I'm seriously considering purchasing a Kaleidescape system and was wondering if there are any systems out there that do the same thing. I haven't run across anything yet but was wondering if I've missed anything. From what I've been able to ascertain, there isn't another system out there that does the same thing. Am I wrong?

Regards,
Chris

As far as I know, no. There are no other turn key setups like it. Although a person can DIY something that is very similar for significantly less.

Might want to ask in the HTPC forum too. A lot of people there have spent a lot of time configuring their PCs/Home networks to offer the look/feel similar to Kaleidascape.

-Suntan

so none of these item or media players will do What kaleidascape will do? I was under the impression that they will providing we have stored or dvds

no one provides a turn key supported solution that does it. my $40 xbox running xbmc to me provides even a nicer interface with more power. The NAS is extra.... clearly there are lots of roll your own solutions under $500

There may be some HTPC vendors who do provide a supported turn key solution but I have no experience with them.....

Sean

so xbmc will see your movie on the hdd or nas and get the cover art. I guess what i'm reall asking is that what is the procedure of getting the coverart to show up on my tv screen and i click on it to play the selected movie.

there are lots of different ways to get cover art. XBMC (whix is different than an xbox) has this ability built into it. As long as you name your files what the movie title is it will search the database for that title and retrieve the cover art, synopsis and fan art. You can do this automatically or only pull this info at your discreation.

Alternatively there are third party programs which will do this searxh for you and than creat informatin and thumbnail files and place them where you store you movies.

What exactly do you want from Kaleidescape? Do you want the convenience of streaming DVD media. Do you want a supported product or the fact its the only tested legal solution? If you were more specific we could better direct you to a product.

K

so xbmc will see your movie on the hdd or nas and get the cover art. I guess what i'm reall asking is that what is the procedure of getting the coverart to show up on my tv screen and i click on it to play the selected movie.

Its very simple with XBMC.
You have your movies on your harddrive (And music and pictures if you want). You then click 'update library' on the xbox menu and the xbmc does the rest.
It adds the movie to your library and automatically finds the coverart and movie info.
You then just scroll through your coverart and click on one to play.

Check it out here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=635294

What exactly do you want from Kaleidescape? Do you want the convenience of streaming DVD media. Do you want a supported product or the fact its the only tested legal solution? If you were more specific we could better direct you to a product.

K

The features of Kaleidescape that I was specifically interested in were :

1) RAID redundancy of dvds and CDs
2) upscaling that is done when playing back movies
3) polished user interface

To a lesser extent, I'm interested in the turn-key package.

Regards,
Chris

I am Looking for a Good Media Player (ABOUT 5) that can Do What the xbmc (Automatically Get the Cover Art. Pull my DVD and CD Files from My CPU or NAS and Play them in 1080p as well as Play Blueray movies and it would be great if it had a BD Drive and HDD so I can Store them there. Am I asking for too Much ? If not van you please direct me in the right Direction. Thanks I want to distibute media to about 5 TV s

Minus the Turn-Key, just pay up and we'll do it all for you, all these things are capable with either a PC, or with slightly less flexibility, a NMT type component.

There are too many options to list, but a viewing of this forum as well as the HT computers forum should turn up a lot of options.

-Suntan

You're going to pay $40k+ for a system that will never be able to stream HD movies?

You're going to pay $40k+ for a system that will never be able to stream HD movies?

I wouldn't pay 40k+ for any system. Why do you say that it will never be able to stream HD movies?

Regards,
Chris

I wouldn't pay 40k+ for any system. Why do you say that it will never be able to stream HD movies?

Regards,
Chris

The only reason they can copy DVDs is because of a loophole in the contract language of the DVD CCA agreement. The same loophole doesn't exist in the agreement for AACS. Kaleidescape has to hope that managed copy makes it into the spec and gets implemented - and so far none of the studios have shown any interest in seeing that happen.

You're going to pay $40k+ for a system that will never be able to stream HD movies?

Odd, my Kaleidescape can stream HD movies. Just need to get Hollywood to be willing to sell them in HD for media servers. That will be coming I am sure.

The only reason they can copy DVDs is because of a loophole in the contract language of the DVD CCA agreement. The same loophole doesn't exist in the agreement for AACS. Kaleidescape has to hope that managed copy makes it into the spec and gets implemented - and so far none of the studios have shown any interest in seeing that happen.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1157488

Blu-ray Buyers Get Rights To Make A Backup
But unfortunately none of the current batch of Blu-ray players or recorders have the required electronics to allow this.

Beginning in 2010, Blu-ray players must be configured to allow one full-resolution copy. Dubbed “managed copy,” the requirement has long been planned for the Blu-ray format, but has only just been finalized by the Advanced Access Content System License Administrator, a consortium of studios, hardware manufacturers and technology companies that licenses the AACS copy protection used on Blu-ray Discs. Managed copies can be made to recordable Blu-ray or DVD discs, as a download to a Windows Media DRM-compatible portable player or hard drive. Unfortunately none of the current batch of Blu-ray players or recorders have the required electronics to allow this. Manufacturers aren't expected to have this feature added to players until mid-2010

We'll see how it pans out.

what would the rough list price by for a kaliedoscape system that could store 300-400 dvd's? I mean store those dvd's, output them to a av receiver, be controlled by a universal remote.

what would the rough list price by for a kaliedoscape system that could store 300-400 dvd's?Kaleidescape is in the "If you have to ask, you can't afford it" category. Systems start at around $10k, and you'll pay more than twice that for the kind of storage you're asking about.

Meanwhile, for about $1000, you can build a HTPC and a home server to store your DVDs on. It's not turnkey, but it's not rocket science either. Even with the most modest understanding of computers you can find instructions to help you build your systems and install free software that will give you 95% of the polish of the Kaleidescape. You will have the satisfaction of knowing you built it yourself and you might actually learn something in the process, not to mention saving money equivalent to the cost of a new Honda Civic.

Amazing that no one has bothered to put something together to compete. Thanks for the input, I'll be considering the HTPC and a new civic I guess.

Interestingly, the reason nobody else has dared to release a competing product and the reason the Kaleidescape is so sickeningly expensive are somewhat related.

Depending on who you ask, storing DVD images on a hard drive and streaming them to your TV may or may not be legal. The MPAA says no, everybody else says yes. In an ongoing effort to be complete and utter douchebags, the MPAA keeps trying to sue Kaleidescape out of business. Kaleidescape no doubt charges what it does for its devices because they need the cash to pay all the lawyers who keep them in business.

Just be aware that if you live in the USA or any other country that has a DMCA-like law on the books, you are technically breaking it by backing up your DVDs. It's an absurd law and nobody follows it, but it does exist.

If you can live with that, then here is a good jumping off point for a cheap Kaleidescape-esque system:

Server - http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=15494067
HTPC - http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=11236672

The server includes enough storage to hold ~ 375 8GB iso images with redundant backup. The HTPC does not include any software, but you can install the live version of XBMC (http://xbmc.org/download) for free and get a very nice user experience.

Have you looked at the Escient Vision. A relatively inexpensive alternative to the kalaedescope

Depending on who you ask, storing DVD images on a hard drive and streaming them to your TV may or may not be legal. The MPAA says no, everybody else says yes.
who is this everybody you speak of? AVS'ers who are blatantly breaking the law and trying to justify it to themselves somehow?
if you need to break the CSS encryption, which you need to do to rip any movie DVD, you are in violation of the DMCA, there is no clause for personal backups...fair use does not apply... there is something for library's and such, but you & I are not covered... our Benevolent Media Overlords bought and paid for the DMCA, you don't really believe they would let you, an ordinary person circumvent it for any reason do you? they didn't want to allow even the libraries to be able to copy anything...
but it is a stupid law, therefore it should just be ignored... problem solved...

if you need to break the CSS encryption, which you need to do to rip any movie DVD, you are in violation of the DMCA, there is no clause for personal backups...fair use does not apply... But this is not what the Kaleidescape does. They use a loophole to make their device more arguably legal.

Instead of cracking the CSS encryption (which is against the DMCA), they make images of the DVD with the encryption intact. The encrypted bitstream is fed to the player, which decodes it in real time under the same paid-for license that all standalone DVD players use. The system is unnecessarily complex, but it does follow the letter of the DMCA.

The DMCA is not an "anti-copying" law, it is an "anti-copy-protection-circumvention" law. It does not prevent you from making a personal backup copy of a piece of media, it only prevents you from breaking copy protection for the purpose of making a personal backup. Since the Kaleidescape doesn't break the copy protection, the DMCA does not apply. At least it shouldn't. The MPAA still sues them from time to time because that is their business model, but you cannot make a blanket statement that it is absolutely illegal (like all other DVD backup systems) because it isn't.

Just to add, not *all* DVDs have copy protection on them. The number is few, and mostly old DVDs. But to say that all of them have coy protection on them (or to suggest that it is a default requirement in the dvd spec) is incorrect.

In practical terms though, a DVD collection of any size will almost assuredly have discs that are copy protected.

-Suntan

But this is not what the Kaleidescape does. They use a loophole to make their device more arguably legal.
I was not referring to big K, Big K is the one and only option that is 100% legit

Instead of cracking the CSS encryption (which is against the DMCA), they make images of the DVD with the encryption intact. The encrypted bitstream is fed to the player, which decodes it in real time under the same paid-for license that all standalone DVD players use. The system is unnecessarily complex, but it does follow the letter of the DMCA.
and it follows the letter of the contract they signed with the CSS group...
but again I was not referring to Big K...
I was only referring to those of us trying to recreate a big K setup for less $$$

Just to add, not *all* DVDs have copy protection on them. The number is few, and mostly old DVDs. But to say that all of them have coy protection on them (or to suggest that it is a default requirement in the dvd spec) is incorrect.

In practical terms though, a DVD collection of any size will almost assuredly have discs that are copy protected.

-Suntan
yea, I may have gone overboard with the any part...
how about any current movie from one of our Benevolent Media Overlord's studios is likely to be protected? that accurate enough?:)

FWIW and Back on topicish, I like my sageTV + HD extenders setup, works well... no weirdness... GUI wise, its ok... plus I get TV all from the same box...

What is the list price for the 3u server and for the 1u server? Not the cartridges but the server itself?

Thanks.

for all you out there that say no one has put anything together that is like the kaleidescape then look here:

http://www.coloradovnet.com/video/hardware.rails

Im going to install one in a clients house very soon. PM me if you want to find out how well it works or doesn't work.

-Josh

for all you out there that say no one has put anything together that is like the kaleidescape then look here:

http://www.coloradovnet.com/video/hardware.railsI don't suppose you know how their disc ripping system works? I'd be very surprised if they're using the same legalish CSS-intact system that Kaleidescape uses. More likely they're using slightly modified open source software for both ripping and playback. It's great if it works, but I don't have high hopes for the long term viability of a company which sells hardware that outright violates the DMCA.

Could you give us some idea of the retail price for one of these setups? I'm sure it's less than a Kaleidescape, but I'm betting it's still something like 5x as much as building your own.

Not the cheapest, but might meet your needs...

http://www.ava-media.com/

hey, it looks like big K is no longer legal... their old ruling in their favor got over turned on appeal... now there are no truely legal DVD jukeboxes
ha ha...

Kaleidescape is in the "If you have to ask, you can't afford it" category. Systems start at around $10k, and you'll pay more than twice that for the kind of storage you're asking about.

Meanwhile, for about $1000, you can build a HTPC and a home server to store your DVDs on. It's not turnkey, but it's not rocket science either. Even with the most modest understanding of computers you can find instructions to help you build your systems and install free software that will give you 95% of the polish of the Kaleidescape. You will have the satisfaction of knowing you built it yourself and you might actually learn something in the process, not to mention saving money equivalent to the cost of a new Honda Civic.

Do you know if anyone has successfully set up a system such as you describe using the Mac Mini?

sure I have 2 mac minis running XBMC as media centers/HTPC's.....

There are thousands of more like me.....

you can do the same thing with a AppleTV for a whopping $230

There are tons of choices and thousands of users who have rolled there own using a variety of HW and SW.

The choices are abundant...

Sean

I know this thread is old, but I'm not seeing a good alternative. Kaleidescape is definitely the best, but what's the best solution for the best price? Also, what about blu-ray movie servers? the K system is clunky when it comes to blu-ray and doesnt do streaming like Netflix, etc. Anyone have experience with Mozaex (was Axonix). Looks like Inteset is back with a new blu-ray movie server (Phoenix) that does Netflix and Hulu. Anyone have experience with these? HELP! Thanks.

The current best quality, functionality, and bang for buck is to go with a 2 box solution.

Box 1 is the streamer, this box presents the user interface, streams the files, decodes and sends the output to your display and audio processor.

Box 2 is the media server. This box rips and stores the media, gathers metadata for catagorization and display, and acts as a proxy to outside data.

I have found that the Dune products do the best overall job for box 1. Box 2 is just a computer is NFS server services, lots of storage in a raid array, an online backup program and metadata gathering software.

Box 1 is about $300 for each display/audio station and box 2 can be built for $600 and up depending upon how much media storage is required.

I sold my K hardware quite awhile ago.

The current best quality, functionality, and bang for buck is to go with a 2 box solution.

Box 1 is the streamer, this box presents the user interface, streams the files, decodes and sends the output to your display and audio processor.

Box 2 is the media server. This box rips and stores the media, gathers metadata for catagorization and display, and acts as a proxy to outside data.

I have found that the Dune products do the best overall job for box 1. Box 2 is just a computer is NFS server services, lots of storage in a raid array, an online backup program and metadata gathering software.

Box 1 is about $300 for each display/audio station and box 2 can be built for $600 and up depending upon how much media storage is required.

I sold my K hardware quite awhile ago.

Is there a thread perhaps where you share more detailed information about this process and setup?

Thank you

Is there a thread perhaps where you share more detailed information about this process and setup?

Thank you

You're literally swimming in them. Sorry to be frank, but that is all this forum is about. Obviously there isn't one correct answer here but a group of people all discussing the units that work best for them.

Personally, I'm a fan of running a PC with SageTV Media Center running on it. A SageTV HD300 hardware player at each TV, plus a Roku player at each TV.

The Roku does Netflix/AmazonVOD/Hulu streaming, Sage does everything else (DVDs/BRs/TV DVR.)

www.sagetv.com

www.roku.com

-Suntan

for all you out there that say no one has put anything together that is like the kaleidescape then look here:

http://www.coloradovnet.com/video/hardware.rails

Im going to install one in a clients house very soon. PM me if you want to find out how well it works or doesn't work.

-Josh

Looks like their servers are for audio only. Or am I missing something?