I'm trying to decide whether to get a 5.1, 7.1 or even just a soundbar. Because the decision really depends upon my furniture and the room's layout, I've been studying some diagrams from the links in the sticky (specifically, those provided by THX and Dolby).

My confusion is where to place the speakers in the rear/side for the 5.1 setup. The THX diagram makes it appear that the speakers are nearly directly on the side of the listener. But the Dolby diagram makes it appear that the speakers are at more of a diagonal and behind the listener.

The distinction might be important for me because, in my room, there is plenty of room to place the speakers in the rear of my sofa, or at a diagonal in the rear, but little room to place speakers on the sides of the sofa. (I have a large sectional that is only a few inches from one side wall, and the other side is awkward for different reasons.

Is it possible to achieve a real "surround sound" in a 5.1 setup if 2 speakers are nearly more or less behind the listeners rather than to the side?

Dolby does recommend the "side" speakers in a 5.1 setup be at 100 to 110 degrees with the TV at zero degrees. They would be beside and slightly behind the listener and slightly above seated ear height. 5.1 audio is mastered with that speaker arrangement in mind and as long as the surround speakers are not exactly behind the listener, you should get the intended audio effect. Would the work in the rear....sure, but some highly detailed effects meant to come in over the listeners left/right shoulder would come from behind. Still better than no surrounds at all.

Well, I have a Polk Surround Bar w/sub in our main viewing area (living room) and a 5.1 setup in my basement. They both sound great, though I prefer to watch movies on the 5.1 setup. For general everyday viewing, in my particular living room, the surround bar is more than good enough, it actually rocks with the Velodyne sub.

As far as your surrounds go, I would recommend a set of bi-pole/di-pole speakers for your 5.1 system if you go in that direction. The sound is so much better than a standard book shelf monitor speaker.

And one thing you failed to mention, do you have a wife? The reason I have the surround bar in my living room, she was tired of the frat house look of the room with all of the speakers. It is a small room, and after getting the surround bar, I saw what she meant and wish I would have done it sooner.

Mike

My confusion is where to place the speakers in the rear/side for the 5.1 setup. The THX diagram makes it appear that the speakers are nearly directly on the side of the listener. But the Dolby diagram makes it appear that the speakers are at more of a diagonal and behind the listener.

The distinction might be important for me because, in my room, there is plenty of room to place the speakers in the rear of my sofa, or at a diagonal in the rear, but little room to place speakers on the sides of the sofa. (I have a large sectional that is only a few inches from one side wall, and the other side is awkward for different reasons.The diagrams are recommendations. But compromises must often be made. If you have to position your surround speakers more rearward than the diagrams indicate, you will, except in the most extreme of circumstances, be fine. If you have to place them all the way to the rear, spread them as wide as possible.


Is it possible to achieve a real "surround sound" in a 5.1 setup if 2 speakers are nearly more or less behind the listeners rather than to the side?Yes. If you can't spread them as wide as or wider than your listening area, you can even aim them outward toward the side walls, if you wish, in order to help provide a little better envelopment.

Well, I have a Polk Surround Bar w/sub in our main viewing area (living room) and a 5.1 setup in my basement. They both sound great, though I prefer to watch movies on the 5.1 setup. For general everyday viewing, in my particular living room, the surround bar is more than good enough, it actually rocks with the Velodyne sub.

As far as your surrounds go, I would recommend a set of bi-pole/di-pole speakers for your 5.1 system if you go in that direction. The sound is so much better than a standard book shelf monitor speaker.

And one thing you failed to mention, do you have a wife? The reason I have the surround bar in my living room, she was tired of the frat house look of the room with all of the speakers. It is a small room, and after getting the surround bar, I saw what she meant and wish I would have done it sooner.

Mike

Yes, I have a wife, which is the main reason wires are an issue. And I really don't want to undertake the expense or hassle of wiring through walls.

Every time I think I'm getting a grasp on this decision, someone mentions something I hadn't thought of, like dipole and bipole speakers. Thanks for that. ;)

I wonder if I should post some photos of my room and ask for feedback. Is this the right subforum to do that?

Yes, I have a wife, which is the main reason wires are an issue. And I really don't want to undertake the expense or hassle of wiring through walls.

Every time I think I'm getting a grasp on this decision, someone mentions something I hadn't thought of, like dipole and bipole speakers. Thanks for that. ;)

I wonder if I should post some photos of my room and ask for feedback. Is this the right subforum to do that?

YES, post photos. If this is a main area, and the wife is already on you about the wires, a surround bar may be in your future. And they really do sound good in the right room with a nice AVR, over 100 watts and a good quality sub. I really cannot believe the sound I get out of mine. And I am not just speaking about how loud it will go. I can hear all of the whispers, that bolt dropping off in the distance, etc... And if the AVR is setup properly along with the sub, the bass will shake your house.

Mike

Here is my setup in the living room, the Polk Surround Bar is on the bottom shelf and there is a Velodyne 12 inch sub, a CH or CHT model to the right of the photo that you cannot see. The sub sits against the wall in the center of the room. I cannot imagine what it would sound like in the corner.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj201/localnet/tv.jpg

At localnet's suggestion, I will post some photos here. But feel free to tell me I should do this somewhere else in this forum, if more appropriate.

Pacing off steps, I counted about 21' by 21'. But because the sectional is large, I only have about 1 foot to the right side before running into the wall. And because a window is on that side, a speaker might have to be mounted high, or instead, just in the rear corner of that room. And as you will see, the other side of the room has limits because of several doors. I would rather not have a speaker in the middle of the room on that side, though a speaker could be in the rear corner, or directly behind that side of the sofa.

You'll also see another area where a tv could be placed, but it is not ideal.

1. This is a view from a staircase that is open to the room (and leads to a kitchen).

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/wynton/PICT0151.jpg

2. This is a view taken just to the right of that staircase, now facing my new 50" Panny. (Note, I have ordered a tv stand. What you see is temporary.) This basically shows that entire wall. Unseen and to the left is a door to the garage.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/wynton/PICT0152.jpg

3. This photo was taken while I was standing beside the tv. Note, you can see here a bathroom door and, next to that, a little nook area. Original owners had some kind of stereo or perhaps tv setup there. The piano is just temporary and will eventually be removed. One possibility is that I move the tv there. But because the wall that nook area shares with the bathroom juts out a bit, I don't really like placing the tv there. And my wife doesn't love the idea of turning the sofa around so that it faces the bathroom.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/wynton/PICT0153.jpg

4. This shot was taken directly behind the tv, facing the rear wall. Again, that furniture in the back will probably get moved to another room. Behind the shutters is a glass, sliding door. You can basically see the entire length of the wall.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/wynton/PICT0154.jpg

5.This is basically the same angle as photo 3.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/wynton/PICT0155.jpg

6. I took this shot while next to that big piece of furniture that is seen in photo 4, obviously facing the tv.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/wynton/PICT0156.jpg

7. This is shot of the nook area, next to a doorway which leads downstairs to a laundry area. And you can see the stairway to the kitchen here too.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/wynton/PICT0157.jpg

8. Finally, one more view of the right side of the room. Here you can see that there is not much space between the sectional and the window, which I think would make placement of a side speaker a real problem.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/wynton/PICT0158.jpg

Based on these photos, does anyone have a view what type of setup is best? I think my choices are 5.1 or a soundbar.

Thanks for any input (and again, tell me if I should post this elsewhere).

I would still try for a 5.1 A soundbar is still just a jazzed up stereo setup with some electronic delay circuitry. The front 3 are not an issue, nor is the subwoofer, and the two surrounds can be smaller wall mounted units like a pair of Mirage nanosats or small speakers on stands that can be positioned for movie night and then returned to a corner when not in use. You can run "flat wire" along the top of the baseboard, paint it, and unless you point it out to someone, it will basically disappear. Nice kit on sale at Parts-Express now http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=099-059&FTR=099-059&CFID=3491145&CFTOKEN=18170998

Something to "chew on", a Jamo four tower and center channel setup at a great price http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/store/Speakers/33/144761/9_1_-1_103__0_0_0_-1/

or a much smaller speaker setup that may work ok in a smaller room - Energy "C" series http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/store/Speakers/33/144822/9_2_-1_84__0_0_0_-1/


PS: neat Lightolier track lighting ! My son has that in his recently purchased house. We found he could save a bunch of money on PAR lamps and electricity by using fluorescent PAR bulbs instead of incandesent bulbs. Sam's Club has then as normal stock. They run a lot cooler and burn 1/3rd the electricity. Just a thought.

good luck

You have the room for a 5.1, is your basement unfinished? If it is, I would run your surround cables from your tv location down to the basement and then up into that wall behind your couch and mount the surrounds there. Install some nice wall plates to hook up your speakers and you should be set. Or you could pull off your base moulding and do the same thing, hide the cable behind the moulding and then run them up behind the drywall on the rear wall.

Mike

With your seating away from the back wall, you have the option to do either 7.1 or 5.1, depending on your preference.

If you go 7.1, which would be my first choice, I would put a pair of surrounds directly to the sides of the couch (they'll have to be high up to avoid the window on the right side) and another pair of surrounds flanking the window on the back wall. This will give you stable rear-vs-side imaging in the surround field and wrap-around envelopment.

If you want to do 5.1 instead, then placement of the surround speakers has to strike some sort of compromise between the side and rear speaker locations. In your case, I would place them high up in the back corners of the room. The multiple reflective surfaces in the corner will help with envelopment, while the wide spread will help maintain good left-vs-right separation in the surround field.

If I go 5.1 - with a view towards possibly expanding to 7.1 in the future - would the possibility of expansion change my initial speaker choice?

Are speakers that would ultimately be placed in the rear different from, or interchangeable with, speakers that might ultimately be placed on the side? (I'm not asking about physical appearance, but whether I should look for different things in speakers depending upon their placement in the rear or side, for the purpose of surround sound.)

If you drink the Dolby Labs koolaid, all the speakers are monopole speakers, aimed at the listening position. Many folks like dipole or bipole speakers for the sides and monopole units for the back, but that depends a lot on room acoustics and personal preferences. 7.1 would be easy speaker wise, just another pair of smaller speakers, but it would mean another run of wire from the a/v receiver to the rear of the room and up the wall....or into the wall, at or behind the baseboard, and up to the speakers. 5.1 is fairly easy to layout and wire, 7.1 just compounds the problems with very little benefit currently. A few movies are encoded with 7.1, but most are still 5.1

If I go 5.1 - with a view towards possibly expanding to 7.1 in the future - would the possibility of expansion change my initial speaker choice?Depends on what surrounds you get initially. 2 surround speakers can't wrap around you like 4 surrounds can. Some people make up for that by using a pair of diffuse (bipole, dipole, etc) surrounds to get better envelopment. You can continue to use these speakers when you eventually go 7.1, but keep in mind that they will be less directional than monopoles, so side-vs-rear separation won't be as distinct.

Also, if you configured your 5.1 set-up with the surrounds somewhere between the sides and rears, you'll have to move them either to the side OR rear location. So it's not as simple as just adding two more speakers. Might be easier to bite the bullet and go 7.1 now instead of going through an extra step to end up there.