Some people hate it, some love it. Sometimes I hate it, sometimes I love it.
But what I want on my CRT is de-juddering technology. Some call it motionflow or something else. Its the thing when you go to Best Buy, Fry's or your favorite store and see one set that looks three times sharper than an almost identical set. Where you truly see every hair and pore. Its almost creepy and unmovie like but its quite a wow effect. And I want it on my CRT. Power DVD 9 software has it but not for playing Blu Ray, just DVD right now. Blu Ray is where it really shines. Seems like it doesn't have to be built into the TV. It seems like it could be built into the Blu Ray player.

Does anyone else want this? I really really do. If it were adjustable to how much it would be especially cool.

Is anyone aware of players or an add on box?

One thing Cyberlink PowerDVD 9's dejuddering is particularly good with is British Television shows on DVD. You can set it for its highest setting and it looks much better and quite natural most of the time. Must be the original framerate on their shows or something.

I played a most of the Doctor Who episodes on my 1270 and always was kept it on high which looks odd on most movies.

Media Player Classic Home Cinema + ReClock for the win. It does make an absolutely huge difference to smoothness - it goes from, "I'm watching a movie at home", to, "Holy Jesu... I'm watching a MOVIE!"

Not sure what you mean about sharpness, though. In some circumstances it makes things easier to see, but it doesn't help sharpness per se in my experience. But yes, it's absolutely worth doing.

ReClock should work with PowerDVD, but if I were you I'd exorcise that steaming pile from my computer ASAP. Any media player that unmutes your audio, turns it up to full volume, and blasts out an intro when you start it up can bite me. If I've got my sound set low or muted, it's because I want it to be, and you, Mr. DVD Player, do not know better than *I* what I want!@

"Where you truly see every hair and pore"

Except you're not.

You're not even seeing the original frames. Good or bad, is up to you, but that's how it is.

"Where you truly see every hair and pore"

Except you're not.

You're not even seeing the original frames. Good or bad, is up to you, but that's how it is.

I guess its throwing in four or so interpolated frames but I am one who likes the effect until someone moves wrong and it gets a little gitchy. Whatever it does it works. Its a good illusion.

That reclock...that has something to do with AnyDVD doesn't it? At any rate, I will look into it. It sounds really awesome. As usual another good tip from Perisoft.

As for the sharpness I have seen a good improvement in sharpness with Power DVD 9 with motionflow turned on. But not to the degree I have with 120hz motionflow like on a high end Sony or Samsung playing a Blue Ray. If you check out fur on an animal from Kung Fu Panda with 120 hz dejuddering you don't just seem to see more individual hairs you really do get more distinct detail. I agree its some sort of illusion because you can't make something if it isn't in the picture already. But I think its fun and fascinating to watch with the right film.

I guess its throwing in four or so interpolated frames but I am one who likes the effect until someone moves wrong and it gets a little gitchy. Whatever it does it works. Its a good illusion.

My understanding is it's not just adding interpolated frames, but ALL frames are calculated.


Anyway, I use Zoom Player, running Reclock and madVR video renderer and the result is perfectly smooth at 96hz.

My understanding is it's not just adding interpolated frames, but ALL frames are calculated.


Anyway, I use Zoom Player, running Reclock and madVR video renderer and the result is perfectly smooth at 96hz.

I wish you had the time or inclination to make a few "For Dummies" posts with step by excruciatingly detailed step explanations of "how to" achieve the kind of playback you always seem to be achieving.

I've never seen "perfect" playback on a crt projector, but you always seem to be using some latest trick which results in it, too bad you aren't inclined to do a write up or two, I'm sure it would be tremendously popular and appreciated.

I have a paid copy of Zoom Player but haven't used it for anything for years because without detailed "how to's", I'm fairly lost on its use...

I just did!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16766673#post16766673

Mark: I've read many, many, many of your posts about how you accomplish the playback feats you enjoy, and I've yet, including the post you linked to, encountered a "For Dummies" post about HOW you accomplish what you do.

I read the same forums you do, I'm exposed to the same software you are, but figuring out EXACTLY HOW to make it all actually WORK together is something I've never been able to do, oh well...

Ditto to what Paul said. I don't think it has to be anything to elaborate. How about something with the software and hardware that you have chosen and why? From there, you could give us the basics of starting from scratch. A lot of it could be links instead of explanations.

For me, I really have only done the basics with a computer. Whenever I get everything set back up, I would like to get it to a more advanced state.

Ok, ok, I'll try and write it all down over the next few days.

ReClock and Motionflow are very different beasts. The former with Zoomplayer is a necessity for HTPC playback - it enables the frames to be shown precisely and accurately at the correct rate!

Ok, ok, I'll try and write it all down over the next few days.

Does anyone else now have a boner?

I'm attempting to recreate what Mark has done right now, I'll let y'all know how it goes.

As for hardware, I'm running a quad core intel at 3.0GHz on a gigabyte board with an Ati 4850 card and 4GB RAM.
Running vista 32bit, SP2 reluctantly gave up on 64bit.
Am running the Black viper settings to stop vista being a total PITA (thanks mark!)
http://www.blackviper.com/WinVista/registry.htm
Have ripped my BluRay and HD-DVDs to MKV files with FLAC audio.

Would love to use XBMC for playback, but there are a few issues yet, so will be following Mark's lead.

Yeah, yeah, I'll write it all down. Dave (Huggy 1) want's the info too.


I spend all weekend playing with my Barco 808...broke it..fixed it.

Soon.

(But basically it's ZP or MPC-HC with Ffdshow, reclock, madflac and madVR.)

Unless Mark create's the "holy grail" of HTPC FAQ's :D it's really up to trial n' error.
I started with HTPC's around Dec. 2003 and there isn't a one "formula" solution.
The real reason I would say is that the HW is not consistant, hotfixes, servicepacks, driver versions, how they were installed/uninstalled yada yada.
Then you have the "logic" of computers that one thing setup exactly the same as another install doesn't necesarely produce the same result :eek:

I'm not trying to scare you away from HTPC's but don't expect it to be, step1, 2, 3, 4 and then you're done.

A tip, do get a re-image software of some kind, e.g. Ghost.

Sure, there is always some twiddling and tweaking, but if you start off with the same hardware and service packs, turn off the same services and run the same software, you can get consistent results.
You can certainly get a far better result than most people who are running at 1080P 60Hz and are putting up with the awful judder.

Then you have the "logic" of computers that one thing setup exactly the same as another install doesn't necesarely produce the same result :eek:



Which is kinda why I would love to have a "for dummies" HOW TO written up by Mark, because I've been reading about his successes for years, with various combination's of hardware and software, and even though I have access to the same programs, forums, knowledge, etc, I've yet to reproduce, even slightly, his absolute success.

For instance, his 'madVR' setup is one I've tried in several iterations, with terrible results. The renderer looks superb, but no matter what I do, I can't get it to work with anything approaching smoothness with a 1080p file, 720p, no problem, but who cares about superb reproduction with a downrezzed resampled 720p file ?

Which is kinda why I would love to have a "for dummies" HOW TO written up by Mark, because I've been reading about his successes for years, with various combination's of hardware and software, and even though I have access to the same programs, forums, knowledge, etc, I've yet to reproduce, even slightly, his absolute success.

For instance, his 'madVR' setup is one I've tried in several iterations, with terrible results. The renderer looks superb, but no matter what I do, I can't get it to work with anything approaching smoothness with a 1080p file, 720p, no problem, but who cares about superb reproduction with a downrezzed resampled 720p file ?

I'm getting smooth as silk playback now at 1080P using madvr, but I had to kick my chip up to 3GHz to get there.

What is your hardware setup?

I think you are overrating my success...

But at the moment, with madVR, it's silky smooth.


For reference I have:

- Q6600 Quad at 3.0ghz instead of 2.4 ghz (but CPU doesn't seem to be a huge issue)

- ATi HD2600XT. Old by today's standards, but enough for madVR - note, madVR is extremely GPU hungry. You need a good video card, no onboard junk. I plan to upgrade my video card.

- Vista32, trimmed down a bit, indexing off, UAC off, some services off. Aero OFF.

- Zoom Player 7 (or 6), running on secondary monitor.
- Haali Splitter
- Ffdshow tryouts SVN version for video decoding (except set to wmv9 in codecs section for VC-1)
- madFLAC for audio decoding of FLAC (ffdshow is 16 bit!)

- Ffdshow audio decoding all other formats (and processing FLAC after madFLAC to get speaker delays), set to process 32 bit internally and output 32 bit float

- Reclock (basic out of box settings should work, except it needs to be set to WASAPI for PCM output, with 24 bit integer or 32 bit float output, depending on what works). Connected via analogue out on my Xonar Deluxe soundcard

- madVR Video Renderer 0.10 (set to TV levels, which retains the video levels without expansion...the description is reverse to all other decoders/renderers). Running VGA out to an NEC switcher

-Powerstrip for custom res and gamma (linear only or it bands). Or Video Equalizer for Gamma if you need a bump in the curve. If you want to set an interlaced res you must set 1080i 30hz in Vista display properties or CCC before tweaking in Powerstrip

-Eventghost for the remote, running an old xbox dvd receiver with a usb cable soldered on it. Eventghost has plugins for it and it's cheap

I playback .mkv files with lossless FLAC audio (or AC3 or DTS if the disc only has that):

- Created with eac3to 3.16

- Using the HD-DVD/BD Stream Extractor Gui SVN version(all on Doom 9).

- Mux to MKV with mkvmerge, and subtitles processed with BDSup2Sub.

The only non-free decoder needed is the Arcsoft TMT2 audio decoder for DTS-MA as using libav (inbuilt) eac3to will only do 5.1 not 7.1. I own Arcsoft as it came with my soundcard.

Umm..can't think of anything else offhand.


But I was having terrible trouble with occasional playback glitches until I formatted the PC and installed Vista again. It's best to start with a clean system.


Mark

I'm getting smooth as silk playback now at 1080P using madvr, but I had to kick my chip up to 3GHz to get there.

What is your hardware setup?

Well I guess that's it then, I've got a C2D E6600 at stock speed...I guess I've got to pop in a faster chip, eh ?

Overclock the bejesus out of it.

i have been running madVR and reclock on MPC Home-Cinema with ffdshow for a few months now on my C2D e6750. Recently switched to a quad 3ghz. Works fine for me for both (using a nvidia 8800gtx)

I notice you all run Intel not AMD chips any reason why? I ran AMD Quad core at 2.4ghz on my last htpc and thought that anything faster would be overkill!

No real reason - my last PC was an Opteron 165 at 2.4ghz instead of 1.8ghz, and it was just fast enough.

Dokworm had a spare Intel mobo, that's all.

several reasons... my computer runs as a hackintosh too, and intel chips are better for that duty. also easily overclockable for some hefty denoise filters in video editing :)

I have installed Mad VR and MPC Home Cinema. Mad VR is there in the options menu but is grayed out. I am running Windows 7 RC 64 bit and installed FFDshow 64bit. I am also on AMD dual core (5600) system with 2gigs and an onboard ATI HD3200 which by all rights seems to be working just the same and seems to have the same functionality as my real HD3500. I also installed the ReClock with MadVR support.

I am just trying stuff that is pretty opaque to me as far as how they all fit together and just hoping it magically works. But the MadVR does seem worth doing if possible.

You can't mix 32 and 64bit filters/decoders/renderers/players/etc.

madVR and Reclock are 32 bit.


Stick to 32bit versions for your player and filters.

It sounds really exciting to watch movies in full motionflow! It would be a really cool feature on the next PS3-update :cool:

But is there a real "film-feeling" in it? or do you think off vecation shots when you watch it?

It sounds really exciting to watch movies in full motionflow! It would be a really cool feature on the next PS3-update :cool:

But is there a real "film-feeling" in it? or do you think off vecation shots when you watch it?

Its less film feeling. More video feeling. There is something weird about it that sometimes you like it sometimes you don't. It makes you stare a lot at the detail you are looking at.

I should punch the guy in the nose who told me I should do a 64 bit system. I liked Kentucky Fried Chicken when all they had was original recipe. I hate even having to think about "extra crispy". When I had a 32bit system I didn't have to calculate whether this one would mix with this one. If I have a 64 bit system can I pick 32 bit players? I'll do it if I can.

Alot of the codecs and renderers won't work with 64bit...



Format time, you might be able to do a system state backup in 64bit windows and restore it to a 32... registry should be the same i would think.

Its less film feeling. More video feeling. There is something weird about it that sometimes you like it sometimes you don't. It makes you stare a lot at the detail you are looking at.


Exactly, motionflow like a cheap video, not appealing really at all, in my opinion, but as with everything, some like it some do not.

I don't ever want to lose the "filmlike" quality of presentation, it'd just be nice if it was a smooth "filmlike" presentation instead of a jerky one...

I like the option. Its really good with TV shows especially those that come from the UK.
The system that comes with PowerDVD 9 does some unnatural yanking of the colors and has trouble keeping dark scenes really dark. But the forced clarity often beats the soft picture alternative you get when they plant four hour long episodes on a single disc. I think WinDVD9 has a version of this also but it wasn't nearly as well implimented.

WINDVD 9 version only works for mpeg 1 and mpeg2... so basically dvd's only.


There is a thing called crystal player, that offers it for all types of video, i can't muster more than 15fps right now on my laptop though, i'll try it from home with a little more juice and maybe help from the videocard.

I’ve just finished a software mix which I am very happy with in all respects. Some apps have already been suggested. This is what I now use for DVD and BD:

XP 32bit
Any DVD HD (BD decryption)
udf driver (access to the decrypted BD filesystem)
kmplayer
Haali renderer (HQ sound and video)
Reclock (smooth motion)
VideoEqualizer (gamma)
PowerStrip (custom display resolutions - optional if your vid card app allows you to set up custom resolutions)

I think all the above could work on a 64 bit XP (or vista / 7 / next week’s version of Windows) with the possible exception of VideoEqualizer – if VE (gammaloader.exe) is a 32 bit app it should still work, if it’s 16 bit then it won’t.

No go on crystal player with a 2ghz core2. Maybe it can do it on a quad, but i still can't get the proper performance on a 720p video. 1080p i'm sure is way out.


Might be able to do it in cuda, but i just don't think processors are ready for this stuff.