Hi, everyone.

I'm quite happy with my current 58" DLP rear projector, but when its second bulb inevitably gives out sometime in the next year or two, I'll probably be in the market for a replacement. I sit about 7 feet back, and from there the 58" screen size seems "about right" to me. A little bit bigger would not be unwelcome, but I'm not looking for anything larger than 85". This a living room, where we game and watch TV, not a HT.

I've been looking at 60"- 65" plasmas. (Anything wall mounted will need to be at least that big in order not to look smaller than my current TV, which "sticks out" from the wall a good 23".) But, good quality plasmas in that size range are not cheap. So, maybe a PJ would be a better value for me. Trouble is, I'm not sure my room dimensions will work for that screen size.

I would need to mount the PJ (don't laugh) in a kitchen cabinet. Wait, wait. I'll explain. That floor to ceiling cabinet shares its back wall with the living room, right across from the TV. I'd cut a hole in the wall, mount the projector upside down in the cabinet, and come up with a way to exhaust air out of the side of the cabinet. It's a somewhat crazy setup, but I think the WAF would be pretty high once everything was buttoned up.

But it places some hard constraints on the position of the projector. Does a projector even exist with the following attributes?

Street price of less than US$2,000
1080p
Is able to throw an 80" picture from a range of 13.5' (Kinda small, right?) The ability to zoom the size between 70" and 90" would be ideal.
Can be mounted at least 12" above the top edge of the projected image. 18" above would be even better, allowing the "projector hole" to be 7.5' up the wall.
Can be mounted 2' to the the left of screen center.


Of course I also want flawless picture quality and ample lumens :rolleyes:, but first I just wanted to establish if those measurements even work.

(I have pretty good light control in this room. It's dim even in the middle of the day, but it's not a cave.)

Oh dear, I just discovered yet another constraint. This one may be a deal breaker.

For most of the width of that cabinet, the back wall is angled at 45 degrees, as compared to the front face of the cabinet. That wall does eventually turn a corner and start to parallel the cabinet front (and the screen wall), but not until it's pretty close to the side of the cabinet. Shorter version: Only the leftmost six inches of the back wall of the cabinet is parallel to the screen.

Soooo, if I cut the hole that close to the side wall of the cabinet, the projector would have to have its lens on the left side in order to "see out". It looks like most PJs do mount their lens on their left, but that's only when shelf mounted. When ceiling mounted, everything gets reversed. Sigh.

But wait, there's another cabinet right next to the first one. This one has a normal back wall, all the way across. But, it's even further to the left of screen center. I'd guess that the lens position would be 2.5 to 3.0 feet to the left of screen center. Heck, if that sort of geometry is allowed, I guess this second cabinet would be even better than the first. It's above my refrigerator, and thus, fairly useless for storage. Plus, the venting could be out of the bottom of the cabinet and be pretty invisible from the kitchen side.

So yeah, the PJ would need to project a 80" image from 13.5' away. With the lens 18" above the top of the screen, and 36" to the left of the screen center point.

I'm totally out of luck, aren't I?

DaveNagy, is there a way to mount planned projector lower? For image quality reasons you really need the projector to be located within the screen area (and centered as much as possible), being outside the screen area is not really an option if you want to keep image quality what it should be.

I'd recommend the EPSON Home Cinema 6100 for your criteria:

A) Street price of less than US$2,000 - check, $1800

b) 1080p - check

C) Is able to throw an 80" picture from a range of 13.5' (Kinda small, right?) The ability to zoom the size between 70" and 90" would be ideal. - check, @ 13.5' throw distance image size could be adjusted from ~64"-135"

D) Can be mounted at least 12" above the top edge of the projected image. 18" above would be even better, allowing the "projector hole" to be 7.5' up the wall. - no project will optically be able to do this while kept perpendicular to the screen, you would have to tilt the projector and use keystone adjustment with the resulting degrade in image quality.

E) Can be mounted 2' to the the left of screen center. - check, you can shift the image 47% of the horizontal width (at 70" width for an 80" image that would be about 33" from center)

F) Can be mounted 3' to the left of screen center. -- not optically for 80" image, would be in range for a 90" image though [~37" adjustment from center] while kept perpendicular to the screen, you would have to tilt the projector and use keystone adjustment with the resulting degrade in image quality.

What would happen if the area of a projected 80" image is moved about 3-4 inches to the right? What about ceiling mounting it in the Kitchen or closer? At 9' distance it could show a 43"-91" image...

Hey, Vracer111. Thanks for the quick reply.

I was hoping to keep the PJ mounted high for a few reasons:

To keep the hole in the wall up out of the eyeline as much as possible.
To try to avoid casting shadows on the screen, as people moved around behind the seating position.
To avoid being blasted in the eyes as much as possible.

But you make some good points. I don't want to destroy my PQ. Making matters worse, I'd prefer to have the screen as low as possible. I don't like having to look up at the screen. So, yeah... Low mounted screen + high mounted PJ = Not so good PQ?

I could probably live with a PJ that was 6.5' above the floor, and a screen top that was 6' from the floor. Would this still require tilting the PJ?

I will definitely check out that Epson 6100 you mention. It sounds very appropriate to my needs. Keep in mind that I'm not actually in the market just yet. So, if my current TV hangs in there a while longer, perhaps I'll be able to afford something even better.

Yes, I have some latitude in the horizontal position of the screen. I imagine I could move it left a good 6" without upsetting the decor gods too much!

I guess I better price out screens as well.

If you post a picture of the room, it'll be easier to give suggestions. I have a Epson 1080, 6100 is the successor, and use all the the horizontal lens shift with no ill effects on the picture......

Actually I was wrong on the available optical drop on EPSON projectors. I just physically double checked the drop available on my Epson Home Cinema 720 (stated at 100% vertical shift - which I incorrectly assumed meant you could only get the top of the image down to the lense centerline) sized to an 80" image.

At its 15.5' location from the screen, the top of the 80" image was dropped 15.75" below the lense centerline level. The EPSON Home Cinema 6100 (rated at 98% vertical shift adjustment) should be compareable, and doing a quick ratio comparison calculation for a 13.5' distance it should get about a 13.4" drop. So for an EPSON HC 6100 a 12" drop should be no issue at 13.5' with an 80" image.

Keep in mind that any use of vertical lens shift reduces the horizontal lens shift range and visa versa. A rough rule of thumb is that if you use 50% of the available vertical lens shift, you reduce the the maximum horizontal lens shift by 50%. Remember too that the 0 lens shift is calculated with the projector lens at mid-point of the screen both horizontally and vertically.

I too would agree that the 6100 is probably your best bet, as it's one of the most flexible for positioning, and can be quite bright if necessary.

Jonathan

Oh dear, I just discovered yet another constraint. This one may be a deal breaker.

For most of the width of that cabinet, the back wall is angled at 45 degrees, as compared to the front face of the cabinet. That wall does eventually turn a corner and start to parallel the cabinet front (and the screen wall), but not until it's pretty close to the side of the cabinet. Shorter version: Only the leftmost six inches of the back wall of the cabinet is parallel to the screen.

Soooo, if I cut the hole that close to the side wall of the cabinet, the projector would have to have its lens on the left side in order to "see out". It looks like most PJs do mount their lens on their left, but that's only when shelf mounted. When ceiling mounted, everything gets reversed. Sigh.

But wait, there's another cabinet right next to the first one. This one has a normal back wall, all the way across. But, it's even further to the left of screen center. I'd guess that the lens position would be 2.5 to 3.0 feet to the left of screen center. Heck, if that sort of geometry is allowed, I guess this second cabinet would be even better than the first. It's above my refrigerator, and thus, fairly useless for storage. Plus, the venting could be out of the bottom of the cabinet and be pretty invisible from the kitchen side.

So yeah, the PJ would need to project a 80" image from 13.5' away. With the lens 18" above the top of the screen, and 36" to the left of the screen center point.

I'm totally out of luck, aren't I?


I think your plan could be made to work.

You might also consider the Sanyo Z3000. It's within your price range, provides a brilliant, clear picture, and has lots of zoom and adjustment range (vertically and horizontally). However, for best optical results, I think the projector should not be positioned excessively off-center. You do need to verify that the projector you choose can be used with the distance and screen size you have in mind.

Another suggestion regarding your desire that the "hole" in the cabinet not be too noticeable. - Why don't you save the portion of wood you remove, add some hinges, and use it as a cabinet door that could be closed when the projector is not in use. Use some care in cutting it with straight, perpendicular edges, of course. With this approach, the hole could be made somewhat larger and still meet with your wife's approval, and it would also permit positioning the projector at an angle to the back wall of the cabinet. With respect to the WAF issues, if you use a pull-down screen, you will have reduced clutter and opened up your room for other uses when the projector is not in use. (Regarding glare from the projection lamp, it isn't a problem unless you stare at it. As to people who may want to walk by or stand in the way, creating a shadow on the screen, tell them to sit down.)

More seriously, be sure to provide plenty of ventilation for the projector you choose IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS, in order to accommodate the particular orientation of it's exhaust fan.

Jim

Sounds semi-promising. First, here are some pics:

This first one is taken from halfway up our stairs. The chair in the foreground is looking at the screen. (Don't mind the Rock Band mess.) You can see the angled wall with the clock on it. Behind that wall section are some large floor to ceiling cabinets. To the right of that is a non-angled wall section with a thermostat. Behind that wall section is the refrigerator. (And a little bit of the aforementioned cabinet.) The proposed spot for the projector would be about halfway between the the clock and the thermostat, as high up as possible, and as near the angled corner as possible.

147173

This following picture is shot from the reverse angle. From inside the kitchen, looking back towards the screen. See that bread-maker up on the top shelf? That's where I had first hoped I could put the projector. Unfortunately, the angled wall makes that tough. I'll probably have to put it in the small cupboards over the fridge. The last pic will show the angled-wall problem better.

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The last pic is a straight on shot of the two candidate cupboards. See how in the big cupboard, only the leftmost six inches of the back wall is flat? There are no doubt a bunch of studs right there as well. It appears to me that there's only one option: Move the booze, and mount the PJ in the cab above the fridge.

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And that leads to yet another constraint: The smaller cupboard is only 12 inches deep. That might not be a show stopper, because I can cut a hole in the wall that's as big as the PJ. That will add the thickness of the wall to my available depth. (Apparently many PJs exhaust cooling air frontwards? That would work well in this case.)

I stood on a stool in the living room, with my head pretty much where the PJ would be. Just eyeballing it, it does appear that the PJ's lens will be about 2 feet to the left of my current screen center, and 2 feet above my current screen top.

I suppose I need to think about just how high I can stand to place my (theoretical) screen. Placing it high provides three advantages:

It makes it easier for a high-mounted PJ to hit, without using excessive amounts of image shift.
It gives more room "under the beam", hopefully meaning we can move around in the room to some degree without blocking the PJ.
The higher the screen, the higher the PJ can be, everything else held equal.


Unfortunately, I don't like looking up at a screen. I took the feet off my TV stand, just so I bring my RP's screen closer to the floor. Right now, my seated eye-level is even with the center of my screen, and I like it. (That's a center point about 45" off the floor.) I might be able to tolerate a screen center 12" higher than that, but that would about be my limit, I think.

[EDIT] Vracer111, thanks for going to the trouble of making those measurements.

[EDIT] Re-uploaded the pics

Attachments aren't working.....

Sounds semi-promising. First, here are some pics:

This first one is taken from halfway up our stairs. The chair in the foreground is looking at the screen. (Don't mind the Rock Band mess.) You can see the angled wall with the clock on it. Behind that wall section are some large floor to ceiling cabinets. To the right of that is a non-angled wall section with a thermostat. Behind that wall section is the refrigerator. (And a little bit of the aforementioned cabinet.) The proposed spot for the projector would be about halfway between the the clock and the thermostat, as high up as possible, and as near the angled corner as possible.

147173

This following picture is shot from the reverse angle. From inside the kitchen, looking back towards the screen. See that bread-maker up on the top shelf? That's where I had first hoped I could put the projector. Unfortunately, the angled wall makes that tough. I'll probably have to put it in the small cupboards over the fridge. The last pic will show the angled-wall problem better.

147174

The last pic is a straight on shot of the two candidate cupboards. See how in the big cupboard, only the leftmost six inches of the back wall is flat? There are no doubt a bunch of studs right there as well. It appears to me that there's only one option: Move the booze, and mount the PJ in the cab above the fridge.

147175

And that leads to yet another constraint: The smaller cupboard is only 12 inches deep. That might not be a show stopper, because I can cut a hole in the wall that's as big as the PJ. That will add the thickness of the wall to my available depth. (Apparently many PJs exhaust cooling air frontwards? That would work well in this case.)

I stood on a stool in the living room, with my head pretty much where the PJ would be. Just eyeballing it, it does appear that the PJ's lens will be about 2 feet to the left of my current screen center, and 2 feet above my current screen top.

I suppose I need to think about just how high I can stand to place my (theoretical) screen. Placing it high provides three advantages:

It makes it easier for a high-mounted PJ to hit, without using excessive amounts of image shift.
It gives more room "under the beam", hopefully meaning we can move around in the room to some degree without blocking the PJ.
The higher the screen, the higher the PJ can be, everything else held equal.


Unfortunately, I don't like looking up at a screen. I took the feet off my TV stand, just so I bring my RP's screen closer to the floor. Right now, my seated eye-level is even with the center of my screen, and I like it. (That's a center point about 45" off the floor.) I might be able to tolerate a screen center 12" higher than that, but that would about be my limit, I think.

[EDIT] Vracer111, thanks for going to the trouble of making those measurements.

[EDIT] Re-uploaded the pics

I think you would regret putting your screen excessively high. (The usual recommendation is that the lower portion of the picture should extend a few inches below your eyes, when seated.) Otherwise you begin to get a pain in the neck over time. Or become one.

One possible solution to the 45-degree wall problem would be to build or mount a small shelf or cabinet extending out from the wall, painting the cabinet or shelf the same color as your wall. - Lots of people mount their projectors on supports or shelves hung from the ceiling. In my installation, I merely placed the projector on top of one of several bookcases standing next to the back wall, behind the seating area. - If a bookcase could fit in front of your 45-degree wall, that might be an inexpensive and easy solution to your problem. In that case, the projector would probably be aimed at an angle, perhaps 45 degrees, relative to the bookcase and the wall. It also provides lots of room for ventilation, permitting the projector exhaust fan to work freely. (I can't even hear mine normally.) And, if you wish, the additional shelving space can be used to support at least some of your electronic components, CD's, or DVD's, etc.

Regarding your concern about people walking in front of the projector, I really don't think that would be a problem. Most TV or video watching is done after the family has settled down for the evening, etc. And what's the big deal if your viewing is interrupted briefly anyway?

I suppose that you have considered aligning the projector in other directions. - Remember that you will be getting rid of your RP TV, so there may be more room to play with, particularly if you use a pull-down screen.

Well, you're getting lots of advice. It may not be what you need, but it is free of charge.

Jim

I'm with Jim Cate on this one, the most logical (and if done properly a more beautiful) solution to the problem is fixing idiotic architects mistakes and filling in the missing corner with an AV shelf/cabinet system. The wooden stand you have already on that angled living room wall is effectively blocking off the corner anyways if you look at the visual space it takes up. Removing the clock from that location and putting in a custom triangluar shelf system will not be any more of an obtrusion than you already have with that wooden stand. One thing I havent seen mentioned is how you will be addressing HDMI cable routing to your receiver, that will need to be worked out as well.

I have my screen positioned where the bottom of the screen is at eye level (higher than I really wanted - but necessitated by the center speaker and Front tower placement) and it actually works out fine. I don't even mind laying down on the rug in front of the sectional and watching the screen. Center of the 92" screen is 62" off the floor with the projector mounted on a heavy duty A/V wooden tripod behind the sectional at a lense height of 59" off the floor.

On a side note, projectors are awesome for gaming....Street Fighter IV, Tomb Raider: Underworld, and Prince of Persia are plain awesome to experience on a large screen.

Hi again.

I appreciate your comments. This is basically just a "thought experiment" for me at this point, so it's helpful to have additional brains involved. Especially non-ignorant-about-projector brains!)

Regarding the option of putting the PJ (somehow) on the angled part of the wall, well, there are some issues there:


I'm likely going to have to run an HDMI cable under the carpet to get signal to the PJ. The carpet ends where the angled wall begins, so that makes things a bit harder. I think I'd have to go into the "flat wall", and then drill sideways to fish the wire into the angled part. Still possible, but trickier.
That angled wall, and anything on it, are literally the first things one sees as one enters the front door. (That tile is our entryway.) Being eye-to-eye with a PJ as you enter our house is going to have poor WAF.
Because that wall forms part of the entry way, any sort of "big" furniture is out of the question. It would block things up too much. The existing stand was purchased because it was literally the smallest piece of furniture we could find.
The center point of my proposed screen basically lines up with that 45 degree corner. (It figures!) So placing the projector on the angled wall could be nearly as off-center as placing it on the flat wall.


That said, since there's an actual ceiling above that spot, I wouldn't have to add furniture, and I could put a ceiling mount pretty darn close to the corner. Still, I'd essentially have a PJ in my front entry way. I'm not seeing that happening unless it was very stealthy.

That said, since there's an actual ceiling above that spot, I wouldn't have to add furniture, and I could put a ceiling mount pretty darn close to the corner. Still, I'd essentially have a PJ in my front entry way. I'm not seeing that happening unless it was very stealthy.

keep in mind you want at least 12" of air space above the projector due to heat issues. 18" is even better.

The only stealth option is a sissor lift that drops the projector down when you want to use it.

Hi again.

I appreciate your comments. This is basically just a "thought experiment" for me at this point, so it's helpful to have additional brains involved. Especially non-ignorant-about-projector brains!)

Your situation is interesting and presents somewhat of a challenge. I'll give it one more try.


Regarding the option of putting the PJ (somehow) on the angled part of the wall, well, there are some issues there:

[QUOTE=DaveNagy;16779057]

I'm likely going to have to run an HDMI cable under the carpet to get signal to the PJ. The carpet ends where the angled wall begins, so that makes things a bit harder. I think I'd have to go into the "flat wall", and then drill sideways to fish the wire into the angled part. Still possible, but trickier.

You could, of course, choose to put your Blu-ray player and/or AVR or preamp in the bookcase or cabinet positioned on the 45-degree wall. In that case, the speaker wires would have to extend across the room. As in most HT installations, SOME cables will be required to extend across the room. There are several ways of handling this issue, including running the cables through the ceiling and back down to the speakers, etc. Or, add some carpeting or a rug and run the cables (whatever they are) across the floor. Again, this issue isn't unique to your situation.


That angled wall, and anything on it, are literally the first things one sees as one enters the front door. (That tile is our entryway.) Being eye-to-eye with a PJ as you enter our house is going to have poor WAF.

How about using a nice, well-finished bookcase of cherry wood, pecan, or light oak? Perhaps with a door that could be opened when the projector is in use. - Would that have sufficient WAF?


Because that wall forms part of the entry way, any sort of "big" furniture is out of the question. It would block things up too much. The existing stand was purchased because it was literally the smallest piece of furniture we could find.

One (high quality) bookcase wouldn't block things up very much. In fact, it would be about the same width as the cabinet you have there now. Or, a cabinet painted the same color as the wall.


The center point of my proposed screen basically lines up with that 45 degree corner. (It figures!) So placing the projector on the angled wall could be nearly as off-center as placing it on the flat wall.


Lot's of projectors (such as the Sanyo Z3000) have more than enough horizontal lens shift to accommodate this issue, particularly if there isn't also a significant vertical deviation.


That said, since there's an actual ceiling above that spot, I wouldn't have to add furniture, and I could put a ceiling mount pretty darn close to the corner. Still, I'd essentially have a PJ in my front entry way. I'm not seeing that happening unless it was very stealthy.

Ever heard of a an enclosure or cabinet, with doors? - Unless the doors are made of glass, you wouldn't even see the projector when entering the front door.


YMMD,

Jim

Again, thank you for the suggestions.