Anyone else here waiting for something that meets or exceeds the 9G? What size are you hoping for?

This was going to be the year I went crazy and bought one or two Kuro 10Gs to replace my RP CRT Mits 65" in the living room and my 35" CRT in the bedroom. Rumor about a year ago was the 10G would come in sizes of 70" or greater.

The PQ on the 9G is still better than anything else I've seen and I go to CES every year and special demos in Southern California. Now I'll probably be waiting 3 years or so for any competitor to even come close to what Pioneer had a year ago. I'm sure each year Panasonic, Sony, LG, Samsung, etc will improve their technology but IMHO nothing is even close to what the 9G offered in terms of picture quality. They might have lower power consumption or some other spec that beats the 9G but the over all picture quality of the 9G isn't even approached by the competitors at this point.

I'd be happy to replace my equipment and offer money but it seems like the dark ages of TVs as what was once offered to all is now in dwindling suppply and nothing else is available to fill that niche. I imagine with the economy the delay may be even more than 3 years unless the engineers from Pioneer are gathered at a compentitors building something comparable or better. I'm sure there is some people out there who bought something at Walmart for $500 that feel it is as good as a Kuro but this thread is really aimed at people who value PQ on a LARGE screen above all else including price.

I'd like something at least 75" - possibly/probably quad resolution. A projector would not be practical in my apartment so it would have to be a plasma, RP, LCD (not even the 240Hz sony's look very good yet) OLED, SED or some such technology.

I want a flying car, but it doesn't look like anyone will be making one anytime soon. I'll guess i'll just have to settle for my BMW :)

So get a Kuro. What's the problem? Get a 60inch and be done with it. You're not going to see affordable 65+ models for years. Get a current 60 inch kuro or elite and move on. I don't regret my purchase at all.It's a phenomenal TV and since it will last you at least the next 5 years you should have to be concerned for a while. maybe by then they'll have released larger flat panels.

So get a Kuro. What's the problem? Get a 60inch and be done with it. You're not going to see affordable 65+ models for years. Get a current 60 inch kuro or elite and move on. I don't regret my purchase at all.It's a phenomenal TV and since it will last you at least the next 5 years you should have to be concerned for a while. maybe by then they'll have released larger flat panels.

Because I was waiting for a 10G kuro. I have no interest in a puny TV for the living room - that would be a downgrade and the 9G is about of the same picture quality as my RPTV - slightly less. The 10G was going to probably be of the same quality and they were working on larger glass manufacturing with a couple of other companies. If that happened, I could have moved forward with size and had excellent PQ. The 9G is a damn fine display but I was waiting for the next evolution since I wanted bigger and have something to hold me over.

I agree that 65+ is elusive to say the least but I was willing to spend (for me) a lot of money. Not sure if it would have been enough as it might have been mighty expensive but I have been saving. But I'm not a professional athlete, a movie star or on that take with the LAPD so I might not have had enough money - hard to say. I'll just wait, my 65" has a terrific picture - I just wanted bigger but still with a top notch picture.

Because I was waiting for a 10G kuro. I have no interest in a puny TV for the living room - that would be a downgrade and the 9G is about of the same picture quality as my RPTV - slightly less. :eek: The 10G was going to probably be of the same quality and they were working on larger glass manufacturing with a couple of other companies. If that happened, I could have moved forward with size and had excellent PQ. The 9G is a damn fine display but I was waiting for the next evolution since I wanted bigger and have something to hold me over.

I agree that 65+ is elusive to say the least but I was willing to spend (for me) a lot of money. Not sure if it would have been enough as it might have been mighty expensive but I have been saving. But I'm not a professional athlete, a movie star or on that take with the LAPD so I might not have had enough money - hard to say. I'll just wait, my 65" has a terrific picture - I just wanted bigger but still with a top notch picture.

You must have crappy vision cause my 5020 is outstanding and by far a superior image to the 73in mits rptv had prior. The kuros, and plasma IMO, are far superior to RPTV. if you're happy with RPTV then get another one, and unless you had squirreled away like 20k which is what I believe that 70in plasma is going for then you need to either buy it or make a down payment on a house.:p I refer you to my previous post on advice.


Also just so you know Panasonic makes a great 65 inch panel for around $3000 I believe so you can get a great image and still have the same size pic.

I don't really know how you thought people were going to respond to this thread. If the Pio 9gs aren't even the match of your current set, why even bother asking any questions when you know there isn't anything else on the market that even comes close to the Kuro?

And definetely not at that size, aside from a projector, which you've already ruled out. Guess you're just going to have to keep waiting...

You must have crappy vision cause my 5020 is outstanding and by far a superior image to the 73in mits rptv had prior. The kuros, and plasma IMO, are far superior to RPTV. if you're happy with RPTV then get another one, and unless you had squirreled away like 20k which is what I believe that 70in plasma is going for then you need to either buy it or make a down payment on a house.:p I refer you to my previous post on advice.


Also just so you know Panasonic makes a great 65 inch panel for around $3000 I believe so you can get a great image and still have the same size pic.

WOW - you'll have to explain your point of view to just about any HT professional. The diamond mits 65" I have is actually better than any plasma including the 9G (even though the 9G is by far my preferred flat panel). The 9G is an excellent plasma but professionals will tell you their isn't the screen door effect of flat panel technology, motion handling is faster even than a plasma and it has the blackest blacks even though the 9G has excellent black levels. I'm not trying to put you down I'm just trying to get you to research before making statements of that kind. If you search this forum, other tweaking forums you'll find that as much as you and I might like the 9G it is NOT better than RPTV although it is about as close as we'll see for a while. However it is considerably less bulky. The prototype they tested for the 10G had fantastic motion handling, and even better blacks than RPCRT according to reports - I have never seen the 10G prototype but I'd like to believe it is true as I love technology and like to see it moving forward.

Again, I believe the 9G is a great TV. The Panasonic is a pale comparison unfortunately. And if you've ever seen a tweaked Mits RPTV compared to a tweaked plasma or LCD you'll find that it is at least as good as a 9G. I have people over my apartment with multimillion dollar homes who have paid a fortune to set up HT systems and while the tweaking improved their TVs over what they had out of the box, it just can't beat my RPTV for picture quality or motion handling. This is a pretty well established fact if you do some research. That isn't to say that plasma and LCD will not eventually beat CRT technology it is just they haven't surpassed it yet.

If you had ever witnessed an SED set, you would understand why it would have been such a fantastic advancement for flat technology - all the qualities of CRT (which beats LCD and plasma in a number of areas) along with the thinner form factor.

I don't really know how you thought people were going to respond to this thread. If the Pio 9gs aren't even the match of your current set, why even bother asking any questions when you know there isn't anything else on the market that even comes close to the Kuro?

And definetely not at that size, aside from a projector, which you've already ruled out. Guess you're just going to have to keep waiting...

You are correct I will have to keep waiting. I know many people who were waiting for the 10G and a larger size plasma from Pioneer. The 9G was a pretty close match for my TV and I agree there isn't much else that even comes close to the Kuro. It is probably because many of my friends share similar interests but I know 8 people who were also waiting for the 10G Kuros. 6 of them were hoping for 70"+. 4 of them also own Mits RPTVs.

I would guess though that perhaps the niche might be smaller than I thought.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/rearprojectiontvs/407mitswd65831/

Is this the TV you have? Because the 9g Kuro black level does beat it.

I want a flying car, but it doesn't look like anyone will be making one anytime soon. I'll guess i'll just have to settle for my BMW :)
Same for me. 530i here.

I had a 65" CRT RP Mitsubishi Diamond before I bought my Kuro Elite about this time last year. The Pioneer was much better in every respect compared to the Mits. Buy and 9G and just move a foot or two closer.

Why not just get a 65" Mitsubishi LaserVue?

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/rearprojectiontvs/407mitswd65831/

Is this the TV you have? Because the 9g Kuro black level does beat it.

No - that is a DLP - I have a CRT. I haven't actually seen that model. I'll admit - I'm less than enthused about buying another Mits even though mine has great PQ. The Mits' have a had a known power issue with their sets for about a decade. The capacitors blow and you have to either hire a technician to fix the set (about $400-500), or take your TV apart yourself and replace the daughterboard they are soldered to (about $250-300) or take your TV set apart yourself and unsolder the old capacitors and solder in new ones (cheap but very time consuming). While I was able to do it myself after researching the issue (fortunately well documented on the web), what pisses me off is Mits knows about the issue, has known about the issue and they don't offer replacement parts or service. Mits doesn't seem to be seeking repeat customers (suckers).

Why not just get a 65" Mitsubishi LaserVue?

I'd like to see it - I hear it is pretty good for an initial model. I hear they are working on a larger model with a slightly better PQ.

boe, I have a 141 and my neighbor used to have your set before he went with a 150 a couple of years ago. Other than the bigger size, there is really no comparison at all between a 150, 151, 141 or a 600M and the Mitz RPTV. I can't imagine anyone really living with the RPTV after seeing a 9G Kuro. Just my 2 cents.

It looks like Panasonic may have the size you are looking for...although it may not meet your quality and/or budget requirements.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1156371

If you want a larger size plasma Panasonic has an 85 " that will be coming out. If you want a bigger size more than 60" with Pioneeresque picture quality you could buy 4 60" Pioneer KRP 600M's hire some engineers to put it together and form a 120" screen size. If you can afford a 85" 4 60"s and a couple thousand should be nothing. In fact if there are Pioneer engineers out there without work, boe will be hiring. PM him ASAP. j/k :D If 120" is too big there is a 500M to achieve a 100" screen. Save you a couple thousand.

Because I was waiting for a 10G kuro. I have no interest in a puny TV for the living room - that would be a downgrade and the 9G is about of the same picture quality as my RPTV - slightly less. The 10G was going to probably be of the same quality and they were working on larger glass manufacturing with a couple of other companies. If that happened, I could have moved forward with size and had excellent PQ. The 9G is a damn fine display but I was waiting for the next evolution since I wanted bigger and have something to hold me over.

I agree that 65+ is elusive to say the least but I was willing to spend (for me) a lot of money. Not sure if it would have been enough as it might have been mighty expensive but I have been saving. But I'm not a professional athlete, a movie star or on that take with the LAPD so I might not have had enough money - hard to say. I'll just wait, my 65" has a terrific picture - I just wanted bigger but still with a top notch picture.

I'm sorry, but did I read correctly that your old crt rptv has a better image than a 9g Pioneer??
I dont know what set you have but I HIGHLY doubt that to be an accurate statement.
I think that if you actually brought one home and dialed it in it would easily handle your old crt rptv in everyway.

and I go to CES every year

Not sure if there will be a 2010 CES after the lackluster turnout from this past show.

What model RP CRT Mits do you have? I am looking to check out the spec sheet on this baby.

Is it this model? If so, it's hard to believe something built back in '02 can compete with the 9G.

65” Mitsubishi CRT Rear Projection HDTV (WS-65869)

boe, I have a 141 and my neighbor used to have your set before he went with a 150 a couple of years ago. Other than the bigger size, there is really no comparison at all between a 150, 151, 141 or a 600M and the Mitz RPTV. I can't imagine anyone really living with the RPTV after seeing a 9G Kuro. Just my 2 cents.

I have a 70" Mitsu HD CRT and a 9G Kuro 6020.

When the RPCRT is fully calibrated it's much closer in PQ than you might think however I still give the edge to the Kuro. Even at their best I find the Kuro a bit better.

When you add in the fact that the CRT calibration is harder to obtain and harder to maintain along with the general feature/connection advantages of the newer displays the Plasma is better for HD. I do like SD better on the CRT.

WOW - you'll have to explain your point of view to just about any HT professional. The diamond mits 65" I have is actually better than any plasma including the 9G (even though the 9G is by far my preferred flat panel). The 9G is an excellent plasma but professionals will tell you their isn't the screen door effect of flat panel technology, motion handling is faster even than a plasma and it has the blackest blacks even though the 9G has excellent black levels. I'm not trying to put you down I'm just trying to get you to research before making statements of that kind. If you search this forum, other tweaking forums you'll find that as much as you and I might like the 9G it is NOT better than RPTV although it is about as close as we'll see for a while. However it is considerably less bulky. The prototype they tested for the 10G had fantastic motion handling, and even better blacks than RPCRT according to reports - I have never seen the 10G prototype but I'd like to believe it is true as I love technology and like to see it moving forward.

Again, I believe the 9G is a great TV. The Panasonic is a pale comparison unfortunately. And if you've ever seen a tweaked Mits RPTV compared to a tweaked plasma or LCD you'll find that it is at least as good as a 9G. I have people over my apartment with multimillion dollar homes who have paid a fortune to set up HT systems and while the tweaking improved their TVs over what they had out of the box, it just can't beat my RPTV for picture quality or motion handling. This is a pretty well established fact if you do some research. That isn't to say that plasma and LCD will not eventually beat CRT technology it is just they haven't surpassed it yet.

If you had ever witnessed an SED set, you would understand why it would have been such a fantastic advancement for flat technology - all the qualities of CRT (which beats LCD and plasma in a number of areas) along with the thinner form factor.

Rear projection? Are you serious? REAR PROJECTION? You mean those behemoth war-chests of antiquated technology that are about as useless as a football bat in todays world. Better than a current model plasma? And a Pioneer plasma no less? Does not compute. Page Not found. Error. Sure, they may be available in larger screen sizes but that just makes their lousy picture even more suspect. Perhaps you have a special one that looks good to you. Thats fine..but against a Pio plasma an RPTV would get owned badly...and thats being nice about it. I dunno, the last few friends of ours that had those things used to induce vomiting when I watched them.

What HT pros are you speaking of? The RPTV fan club or something?

Im perplexed....

Not sure if there will be a 2010 CES after the lackluster turnout from this past show.

What model RP CRT Mits do you have? I am looking to check out the spec sheet on this baby.

Is it this model? If so, it's hard to believe something built back in '02 can compete with the 9G.

65” Mitsubishi CRT Rear Projection HDTV (WS-65869)

I believe it was an 03 or 04 model. I know it seems hard to believe but they had 50 years to perfect CRT technology - flat screen is still in its infancy. I'm not saying the 9G looks like crap in comparison - it looks very very good but still has some of the standard flat screen issues to deal with. I watch mostly action films and it is a simple fact plasma still isn't as good as CRT for motion - someday it may surpass CRT for that but it doesn't yet. LCD is worse for motion, even the 240Hz models. Both have a pixel /screen door issue although some are better than others. Just simple fact - some may not notice these things, some do. Someone may say you are sitting too close if you can see the pixels or that is the problem with larger screens. I sit close enough so that my little 65" still seems relatively large - what the heck is the point of having a big screen if you plan on sitting so far back it seems like a 35" TV?

Rear projection? Are you serious? REAR PROJECTION? You mean those behemoth war-chests of antiquated technology that are about as useless as a football bat in todays world. Better than a current model plasma? And a Pioneer plasma no less? Does not compute. Page Not found. Error. Sure, they may be available in larger screen sizes but that just makes their lousy picture even more suspect. Perhaps you have a special one that looks good to you. Thats fine..but against a Pio plasma an RPTV would get owned badly...and thats being nice about it. I dunno, the last few friends of ours that had those things used to induce vomiting when I watched them.

What HT pros are you speaking of? The RPTV fan club or something?

Im perplexed....

WOW - is everyone here afraid to just read. The CRT has been compared to plasma and LCD countless times and while LCD and plasma are progressing they simply still have issues that CRT doesn't. Do they have advantages over CRT - sure - much thinner, better edge to edge control but quite simply the PICTURE QUALITY is the most important. So before you say it isn't possible because plasma or LCD is newer - check your facts. They had cars that got 50MPG about 80 years ago and yet the car you drove 10 years ago didn't even come close to 50MPG - newer isn't always better. Again I'm not saying LCD and Plasma can't surpass CRT - they just plain haven't yet. The 10G might have had some more advantages over my CRT but now we'll never know.

I think boe needs to take all that $$$ he had saved up for a 10G and go see Ming Wang. http://www.wangvisioninstitute.com/ :D

There's plasma... and then there's the 9G Pioneer Kuro. :cool:

I'm sorry, but I have a hard time believing that a rear projection CRT HDTV has better overall picture quality than a 9G Kuro.

The 9" guns in the Mits are legendary.
Think more front projection than rear and the stereotypes might recede.
Of course the Mits has a smaller sweet spot.

WOW - is everyone here afraid to just read. The CRT has been compared to plasma and LCD countless times and while LCD and plasma are progressing they simply still have issues that CRT doesn't. Do they have advantages over CRT - sure - much thinner, better edge to edge control but quite simply the PICTURE QUALITY is the most important. So before you say it isn't possible because plasma or LCD is newer - check your facts. They had cars that got 50MPG about 80 years ago and yet the car you drove 10 years ago didn't even come close to 50MPG - newer isn't always better. Again I'm not saying LCD and Plasma can't surpass CRT - they just plain haven't yet. The 10G might have had some more advantages over my CRT but now we'll never know.

Well, I wont argue that a CRT can throw a nice image on the screen.... that is if you can deal with 34" or smaller which completely kills the concept of Home theater. CRTs were awesome in their day and had a tremendous run as the defacto for TV technology. I loved my XBR 32" monster until I found Pioneer plasmas. And, modern plasma sare a lot better at several categories, not just edge to edge performance!

As nice as a 34" XBR will still look right now, if you did a comparison test at a local shop and had 100 different viewers pick which one they liked better....sorry to say that the score would be: Plasma 100, CRT, 0.

Thats just the way it is. The batton has been handed off. Lets rejoice and enjoy!!!!

IMHO we have two issues here and also a classic example of the difference between potential and reality.

1) boe started this thread already convinced (based on his comments) that the 9G Kuros are inferior to the 65" RP CRT Mits in his living room and the 35" in his bedroom. Therefore no matter what is said about the Kuros he will not change his opinion. Even a calibrated 9G 111FD Kuro will not satisfy him for his bedroom needs and be a suitable replacement for the 35" CRT he currently has there.

2) boe also said, "I'd like something at least 75" - possibly/probably quad resolution. A projector would not be practical in my apartment so it would have to be a plasma, RP, LCD (not even the 240Hz sony's look very good yet) OLED, SED or some such technology." I believe based on the size of the screen he is looking for that the 85" Panasonic is currently the only option for him to pursue and it is quite apparent that the Panasonic will not provide the PQ he desires as the picture on it is inferior to the 9G Kuros.

So the bottom line is that boe does have the potential of finding a set that will be the answer to his quest but the reality of the situation is that it won't be from this year's crop of available technology. Therefore I submit to everyone that all you are posting about current models is an exercise in futility.

I want a flying car, but it doesn't look like anyone will be making one anytime soon. I'll guess i'll just have to settle for my BMW :)

Ahhh, be careful what you ask for.

http://www.terrafugia.com/

As nice as a 34" XBR will still look right now, if you did a comparison test at a local shop and had 100 different viewers pick which one they liked better....sorry to say that the score would be: Plasma 100, CRT, 0.

Thats just the way it is.
No. That's simply not true.

It always amazes me when one person feels they can speak for everyone else.

Well, I wont argue that a CRT can throw a nice image on the screen.... that is if you can deal with 34" or smaller which completely kills the concept of Home theater. CRTs were awesome in their day and had a tremendous run as the defacto for TV technology. I loved my XBR 32" monster until I found Pioneer plasmas. And, modern plasma sare a lot better at several categories, not just edge to edge performance!

As nice as a 34" XBR will still look right now, if you did a comparison test at a local shop and had 100 different viewers pick which one they liked better....sorry to say that the score would be: Plasma 100, CRT, 0.

Thats just the way it is. The batton has been handed off. Lets rejoice and enjoy!!!!

You couldn't be more wrong. While the CRTs have shortcomings like burn in and periodic calibration, the grayscale tracking and black levels of my Sony G-90 is noticibly blacker than my KRP-600M. At this point plasma technology cannot compete with a good CRT display like the G-90, or the 34" KBR direct view.

You should refrain from projecting your less-than-well-informed-opinion onto 99 others.

I'm thrilled with my current home theater. My preamp, amps, speakers etc all really really are what I've dreamed of having since my college days (of course these models didn't even exist back then - long long ago). I don't spend money on much e.g. my car is over 8 years old, but I do spend a bit on my HT equipment.

My TV looks fantastic with the 5000ES improvements on standard DVDs and BR DVDs however I'm still hoping to some day replace my huge clunky RPTV with something that looks at least as good for PQ with something very large - e.g. 80" or more. I do NOT have the space for a projector so it is never going to happen.

I don't think I'll replacing any of my audio equipment for 10 or more years but I would be happy to put money back into the economy if better TV technology existed. I know lots of people who were planning on buying the 10G Kuro who can't find anything they like now after even seeing the 9G kuro.

I get that the economy is tough, many of my clients are still downsizing but it still feels like Pioneer made a mistake by getting out of the plasma market. Seems like so many other manufacturers started bragging they were making Plasmas right after Pioneer stepped out.

Current equipment - which not everyone would agree with but works for me - (some of which was purchased as long as 20 years ago)
Denon AVP-A1HDCI
Anthem P5 (bi-fronts and center)
Anthem P2 (rears)
Sony 5000ES BR DVP
Front Von Schweikert VR4 MK2 (with the VR5 upgrades)
Center ML Cinema
Rear Magnat Gammas
Sunfire MK2
Belkin PF60
Have and BJ cables
Mits 65813 TV