Nothing too remarkable about Sony's latest HD camcorders, but the new 64GB HDR-CX520V and 32GB HDR-CX500V are solid updates nonetheless. Identical apart from the built-in storage, both feature an Exmor R CMOS sensor with BIONZ processing that should offer solid low-light performance and decent 12 megapixel stills, Optical SteadyShot with a new active mode and three-way shake cancellation, Face Touch autofocus that allows you to simply point at faces to prioritize focus in order, and, most notably, a 1080p/60 scaler, which'll upscale your footage to 60p when connected to a compatible HDTV. Not a bad piece of kit, but they'll cost ya: the HDR-CX500V will run $1,100 and the HDR-CX520V will be $1,300 when they arrive in September

Details (http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/consumer/digital_imaging/camcorders/high_definition/release/40911.html)

From the description it seems like Sony is upgraded the OIS even further on these upcoming camcorders.

More info here:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-Has-Two-New-HD-Flash-Memory-Camcorders-----HDR-CX500-and-HDR-CX520-36708.htm

Not sure I read that the OIS is further improved from the ZR500V/520V models... but it'll sure be improved over the CX12.

oh great, I should have waited.....
got my Sanyo FH1 not long ago

This is what I would have preferred over the HDD in the XR-500, but I could not wait. No regrets.

oh great, I should have waited.....
got my Sanyo FH1 not long ago

I'm in the same boat but luckily, I ordered Sanyo FH1 day before yesterday so I can still return it :)

I've been hoping and waiting for this. It's been tough waiting when the XR500V is out there, but I really wanted a flash-only equivalent. Great that it's finally announced. Now just the long wait until the September release!

Great to see that they added flash memory, too (unlike the CX12)

More info here:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-Has-Two-New-HD-Flash-Memory-Camcorders-----HDR-CX500-and-HDR-CX520-36708.htm

Not sure I read that the OIS is further improved from the ZR500V/520V models... but it'll sure be improved over the CX12.

According to the Sony Europe release it is:

"In addition, it’s the world’s first camcorder to reduce camera shake in 3 directions during video shooting (as of July 2009). Camera roll is now corrected as well as up/down and left/right tremor, contributing to an overall improvement in picture stability."

Ok, they added EIS to remove roll... Point granted.

But still, I'm curious to know how much of an appreciable improvement it will have over the 500/520V Active mode. I wonder how much roll needs to be removed on a normal camcorder usage. :)

FWIW, if Sony would choose to, they could offer a firmware update to provide that functionality on the XR line too since it's a software solution (though I seriously doubt that's going to happen).

hmm. what took them so long. I guess maybe to wait on 64gb chips.
So the new options are 60p output, new eis, improved face detection and new menus.

Does that mean the vids are still recorded at 60i and upconverted to 60p internally?
And the new eis, questionable to how much that improves stability / degrades vid quality. I know Panasonic also improved their ois in their new tm/hs350, maybe they're just trying to stay ahead of the game.

It says new menu system, I wonder if they added any manual control options. I don't see a buttons on the side of the lcd anymore, looks more like a "laser touch" sensor like on jvc. Also no front manual control dial, I see a dial near the back, so looks like they moved it?
It Looks to be much smaller then the xr's. So no evf and I wonder if its still 3.2" lcd

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/images/upload/Image/news/2009/Sony/HDR-CX520V_CX500V/Sony_HDR-CX520V_Vanity350_Prov.jpg
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/images/upload/Image/news/2009/Sony/HDR-CX520V_CX500V/Photo_Gallery/07Sony_HDR-CX500V_BackLCD_Prov.jpg
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/images/upload/Image/news/2009/Sony/HDR-CX520V_CX500V/Photo_Gallery/02Sony_HDR-CX500V_Front_open_Prov.jpg
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/images/upload/Image/news/2009/Sony/HDR-CX520V_CX500V/Photo_Gallery/04Sony_HDR-CX500V_Back_Prov.jpg
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/images/upload/Image/news/2009/Sony/HDR-CX520V_CX500V/Photo_Gallery/05Sony_HDR-CX520V_Right_Prov.jpg
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/images/upload/Image/news/2009/Sony/HDR-CX520V_CX500V/Photo_Gallery/06Sony_HDR-CX500V_Top_Prov.jpg
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/images/upload/Image/news/2009/Sony/HDR-CX520V_CX500V/Photo_Gallery/10Sony_HDR-CX520V_Cavity_Prov.jpg
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/images/upload/Image/news/2009/Sony/HDR-CX520V_CX500V/Photo_Gallery/13Sony_HDR-CX500V_Ports1_Prov.jpg

It Looks to be much smaller then the xr's. So no evf and I wonder if its still 3.2" lcd

Closely comparing the official Sony PR pictures for the CX5x0 and the XR5x0, it looks like the LCD screen size is the same on both units.

I wish the CX5x0 still had a viewfinder, even if it was in fixed position. Having said that, I'm coming from a HC1, and I was completely unimpressed with the XR5x0's viewfinder. I know it's not a fair comparison (as the HC1 had a fantastic viewfinder taken from the prosumer FX1, and it's LCD is can't hold a candle to the one on the XR5x0), but it helps me swallow the trade-off.

This is pretty much the model I've been waiting for - keeping all the visual quality features of the XR5x0 (i.e. imager and optics) and trading off all the other features neccessary to make it as small as possible (i.e. drop hard drive, viewfinder).

I'd prefer a higher bitrate capability, but at least the current limit ensures that AVCHD DVD discs can be burned without re-rendering to a lower bitrate....

But still, I'm curious to know how much of an appreciable improvement it will have over the 500/520V Active mode. I wonder how much roll needs to be removed on a normal camcorder usage.

According to camcorderinfo, on the CX5x0 the EIS mode is only activated when in "Active" mode (no pun intended), and Sony admits that there is some tradeoff in quality when doing this.

I'm actually confused as to the difference between Standard and Active mode on a XR5x0V. Does this mean the XR also has some form of EIS when in Active mode? Otherwise, why would there be two modes?

One of the big selling points for me on the XR5x0 is the great OIS system. I wonder if the same can be achieved on the CX5x0 without having to activate the EIS?

From what I read, the use of EIS is new to the CX series and is used to remove the barrel movements. The XR doesn't have that functionality. If this new EIS algorithm affects quality in any way, I hope there will be a way to turn it off independently of the Active mode, but from what I read, Sony was actually saying that there would be little quality loss, since the process is done before the rescaling and they have so many pixels to play with.

And as far as the tradeoff vs the XR series, you also have to take those into account:
1. The front manual knob is lost, replaced by a dial in the back.
2. No viewfinder (as bad as it is on the XR series, not having one at all can't be seen as an advantage).
3. No audio input other than using the active shoe
4. No audio output monitoring
5. No way to change the IS without digging in the menus (the XR has a 3-way switch)
6. 75% less storage on the internal media.

You do get:
1. Smaller
2. Lighter
3. Flash-only storage with no moving parts
4. Newest features (head focus tracking, 60p HDMI output, EIS roll stabilization, ability to transcode to SD MPEG2 when plugging to Sony DVD burner, simplified UI, etc)

But with the XR500V available now at $950 at reputable dealers, I'm not sure if the CX500V looks like a great nice deal at $150 more (which it will be for a couple of months). I guess it's a great option for people wanting the smallest possible (without compromising quality) and/or wanting flash-only.

The CX5x0 are now also on the Sony Japan website. From this I was able to determine the following:

- The interface is new, as had been mentioned before. It seems that the biggest improvement is that you now use your finger to "swipe" up and down to scroll through the menus, clip thumbnails, etc. A scrollbar appears on the left portion of the screen which you use to do this.

- The VRD-P1 does indeed allow you to burn either AVCHD DVD's or standard DVD-V discs. You plug the VRD-P1 directly into the camcorder via USB, and the VRD-P1 receives it's power over that USB cable. You do need to have the CX5x0V plugged into AC. You can choose clips, whether to burn a AVCHD DVD or convert to standard DVD, etc, directly on the CX5x0V. They have two demos showing the procedure for both (specificaly for the CX5x0V with the VRD-P1) - i.e. how to choose which format to burn from the camcorder. I don't know why this is not made clear on the US Sony site - all indications there are that only standard DVD-V video is supported. After burning a disc, you can also add additional clips later ot the same disc (as long as the disc was created on the VRD-P1). It supports DVD+R DL, but only single layer for DVD-R. I had no interest in the VRD-MC10 due to the high cost, but with the lower price of the VRD-P1 and the great portability, the concept certainly becomes more interesting. I can't imagine not having a laptop with PMB with me (at a minimum), but it's cool to have the option.


As I'll be coming from a HC1, I'm disappointed to see no evidence that a histogram or zebra features are included, although my understanding is that the XR5x0V models don't have them either.....

Unfortunately, the CX5x0V models do not come with the dock that earlier CX models came with. This is too bad - I had a Cybershot T1 a few years back that came with the dock and I really found it to be convenient - just drop it in and it charges as well as providing a USB connection. I can see why they aren't bundled, but I wish Sony would make one as an accessory....

Also confirmed that this model also maxes out at a bitrate of 16Mbps. It keeps the 5.1ch sound capability that the CX12 had.

The CX5x0V ships with the FH60 battery - has a charge time of 2h15min. Total weight is 450g with this battery. Reported shooting time with this FH60 battery is 1hr55min "continuous shooting time", 1hr "really taking time" (which includes zooming, starting and stopping, going into and out of standby,etc.) Stepping up to the FH70 gets 3hr10min continuous and 1hr35min "really". FH100 continuous 7hr10min and 3hr35min "really".

In FH mode (16Mbps), the CX500V can hold 3hr45min of video, and the CX520V 7hr40min of video. A 16GB Memory Stick will hold 1hr 50min.

In comparison, the XR5x0V with the included FH60 battery weigh 580g-590g depending on the model. Charge time is again 2h15min. Reported shooting time with this FH60 battery with viewfinder is 1hr35min "continuous shooting time", 45min "really taking time" (which includes zooming, starting and stopping, going into and out of standby,etc.) Stepping up to the FH70 gets 2hr30min continuous and 1hr15min "really". FH100 continuous 5hr50min and 2hr55min "really".

For the XR5x0V when using the LCD (which is really best comparison to the CX5x0V): FH60, 1hr30min "continuous shooting time", 45min "really taking time" (which includes zooming, starting and stopping, going into and out of standby,etc.) Stepping up to the FH70 gets 2hr20min continuous and 1hr10min "really". FH100 continuous 5hr25min and 2hr40min "really".

Clearly, the CX5x0V gets longer battery life than the XR5x0V, which is to be expected due to the hard drive. However, while the difference is significant, it is not dramatic. While I personally do not want the hard drive, battery life is similar enough that it shouldn't be affecting anybody's decision between the two models, IMHO. I will say, however, that the 45min "really" time with the included FH60 on the XR5x0V is too short - they should have included the FH70 as the standard battery on those models.

It's also interesting to see that using the viewfinder instead of the LCD does not significantly increase the battery life of the XR5x0V. I guess this is good, as in my opinion the viewfinder resolution is very unimpressive (at least compared to my HC1) and you'd want to be using the LCD primarily.

Anyway, just some nerdy stats for folks like me who are interested to see what dropping the hard disk gets you in terms of weight and battery life....

Both CX500 and CX520 are in stock at bhphoto.

Hi ajamils,

Itch for another switch?

I should Thank you for the day when I pulled trigger over XR 500 and saw your posting of CX520/500's release. I cancelled my order immediately. More than one month passed, I feel quite comfortable about the decision. Even I missed the whole summer shooting.

I might still consider Canon HF S11 for the pre-record function and better stills performace. But, I guess it's hard to bypass the smaller form factor. It's just attractive!!

Seanwha

Hi ajamils,

Itch for another switch?

I should Thank you for the day when I pulled trigger over XR 500 and saw your posting of CX520/500's release. I cancelled my order immediately. More than one month passed, I feel quite comfortable about the decision. Even I missed the whole summer shooting.

I might still consider Canon HF S11 for the pre-record function and better stills performace. But, I guess it's hard to bypass the smaller form factor. It's just attractive!!

Seanwha

Hahaha, no I'm quiet content with Panasonic GH1 for now. Even though I was waiting for these cams to come out but now since I've got a hold of Gh1, I think I'm done for a while.

Let us know when you get one. I'll like to know how it performs.

The first review by dogcatcher is posted on the other thread. That's fast! Myself got a slow trigger(Oct. maybe)-- waiting for some reviews and price settling down. I will see what I can supplement then.

I am glad you got a camera to hold on. Looks like Panasonic got a nice crossover model on the camera side.

I just received mine (CX520). Man, this thing is TINY compared to the HC1 that I'm replacing.

Shame to have no viewfinder, but other than that I LOVE the small size. This sucker really is pocketable for me (at least when on vacation wearing shorts with big pockets!). In any case the viewfinder on the XR520V was so unimpressive compared to the one on my HC1 that I'm not missing much...

Charging the battery now - no time to play with it yet....

Hi bsd107,

My mouth is watering. Do you plan to use this as video/still combo application? I am quite curious how close its stills performance is to $150 DSC. I am not worried about other features on this machine.

Thanks
Seanwha

The stills on this are nice. I will have some posted up sometime this weekend. I do intend to use this as a still camera too.

The flash on this is really good even though its small. It multi-flashes and removes red eye. Its pretty cool. It also surprised me the first time I saw it, didn't know it was there. lol

Any good recommendations for places to upload 4+ MB jpeg files?
Photobucket has a limit currently...
(I have some space at laptopvideo2go currently but its not ideal and probably no hotlinking.)

Thanks in advance, Bill.

I saw in XR520/500 owners thread a post by ClarkPnoy:
http://www.motionbox.com/videos/7a9eddb21e11ebc3f5

Looks decent! Just don't know what resolution still kept in that clip. Maybe we need to compare, in addition to just look at the image. For example, in the same thread, someone (name forgot) mentions the stills can compare to DSC-W290. That will be great if true. We can expect it to compare to DSLR.

Also curious if there are any undocumented improvements over XR520/500. The feature I hope the most is still stills. XR520/500 inferior to Canon HF S10 in this catagory. Especially at night.

Seanwha

My mouth is watering. Do you plan to use this as video/still combo application? I am quite curious how close its stills performance is to $150 DSC. I am not worried about other features on this machine.

I'll take a look at that, but I wasn't planning on using this for stills use. I still haven't been able to figure out what the native resolution is for stills - Sony claims 12MP, but I don't believe it - I think it's upscaling to that, which is pointless.

My HC1 was never impressive for stills, so I've never considered camcorders for that use...

The native resolution is 6 MP. So, it makes sense to set at this to save the memory space. The pixels can be expanded in post production.I feel fortunate it's 6MP than 12 MP. With the same sensor size, smaller pixel count should outperform the larger one unless you crop the pictures a lot. 12 MP, in my eyes, is useless.

As said, someone claimed the stills can compare DSC-W290. According to my reading, the stills performance should be usable. Unless you are a dedicated DSLR user, the stills function definitely deserves a try.

I really like the look of the CX520 just not available where I live at the moment so I might just wait a while.

The native resolution is 6 MP. So, it makes sense to set at this to save the memory space. The pixels can be expanded in post production.

What I don't understand is why Sony actually prints "12MP" on the side of the camcorder. If they were doing this on a Cybershot we'd all be calling this false advertising.

I've been wondering whether this whole thing is more complicated than we think. I.e. does the CMOS imager use horizontal/vertical pixels, or are they in a diagonal format? (Seems crazy, but it wouldn't be the first Sony device that had that.) If so, this would allow them to rescale to any horizontal/vertical resolution that they wanted to and still claim that they weren't lying about the resolution of the stills....

What I don't understand is why Sony actually prints "12MP" on the side of the camcorder. If they were doing this on a Cybershot we'd all be calling this false advertising.

I've been wondering whether this whole thing is more complicated than we think. I.e. does the CMOS imager use horizontal/vertical pixels, or are they in a diagonal format? (Seems crazy, but it wouldn't be the first Sony device that had that.) If so, this would allow them to rescale to any horizontal/vertical resolution that they wanted to and still claim that they weren't lying about the resolution of the stills....
Sony has done this with their camcorders for years, I believe. I haven't found an trusted explaination. This is just my guess: market pressure.

The market wants to see a description simply like "12 MP", rather than "6 MP, but this is better than 12 MP". Nowadays, even the cheapeast cameras shoot for 10+ MP. It's hard to find any model would trade pixels count for real performance. Sony Camcorder might be an exception. But they still have to provide a fake double-pixel mode to satisfy the market's taste.

What's the beauty of Sony's 6 MP? We should say otherwise they either have to:
1. Use larger sensor. It will result in larger form factor. And maybe like Canon has to use a optical len with 10x zoom instead 12x.
2. Keep the same sensor size but double the pixels. The low light performance won't be as good as now.