Hello all.....I am semi-new to calibrating/tweaking TV's, so I understand a good amount, but I am also lost when it comes to a few tweaks.

I just purchased the Blu-ray version of DVE HD Basics in hopes of calibrating/tweaking my Samsung PN50B550. And all seems to be going well, but I ran into 2 problems I need help with.



1.) During the Reverse Gray Ramps & Steps test pattern, I am told to put my Contrast all the way up until I see clipping of the last two white bars (the last two bars being white and just above white).

But right off the get go of the test, the last two bars are already clipped (i.e. - the same color so there is only one solid bar visible).

Even if I turn the contrast all the way down to 0 the bars stay clipped. And with the contrast at 100, the last two bars are still clipped, just very bright white.

However, if I turn the contrast down, the black bars start to clip together into a solid mass.
But with contrast at 100, the last two black bars are also clipped (the black and just below black bars are one uniform bar).

I have read so many different discussions and answers on how to properly use this test pattern, but none of them seem to work, or they are not explained thoroughly.


So I am asking you fellow AVS members, with my TV, and with how this test pattern reacts to contrast changes (the White and Above White are always clipped, regardless if the contrast is at 100 or 0......and the Black and Below Black bars always clip also and the lower I set the contrast, the more the black bars start clipping together, not just the last two), what do I need to do to as accurately as possible set my contrast using this test pattern without some piece of equipment?
Is there a certain method I need to use?
Do I need to use multiple picture controls other then just contrast setting?

****Also, the white bars do not step down in intensity uniformly....the black bars do (once the contrast is set high enough), but the white bars, no matter what I put the contrast at, do not all step down gradually to gray (a few of what should be light gray bars are a dull white instead).
Would this be corrected in the service menu?





2.) After setting the contrast to the best of my ability (which is still probably off), I went on and set the color's using the color filters.

As per the DVD, I set the Blue color first. I was able to get all of the Blue squares to match the Blue bars by changing the Green/Red ration to 42 Green - 58 Red.
None of the white balance color options (R/G/B offset and R/G/B gain) made any sort of difference.

I then went on to Green and Red. But as I just said above, no matter how much I change the Red/Green/Blue gains and offsets under White Balance, I cannot get the Green and Red squares to all match the color bar.
The Blue squares match the color bar perfectly, but I can only get half of the Red and half of the Green squares to match their bars.


Does anyone have any suggested methods I use to try and get the Red and Green squares to match up?
Would accessing the service menu for this particular TV help in this instance?
Or is having the Blue match up perfect good enough?






I know these may be repeated questions, but anywhere I look the questions are never answered in a manner that I can understand for my exact problem.
Any help is appreciated greatly!

Greetings

color filters ... color decoding stuff. They have nothing to do with the RGB gains and bias controls.

Gains and Bias are for grayscale. They are just contrast and brightness controls.

I recall that Samsung removed the CMS on the B5 series ... so the color filter is all you have and color and tint are all you play with. Nothing more.

If you want CMS ... you bought the wrong TV. :( But of course you need instrumentation to get the CMS right and a filter is not considered to be instrumentation here.

Likely your DVD player is clipping white before the tV even gets the signal. You don't mention what type of DVD player you are using.

regards

Greetings

color filters ... color decoding stuff. They have nothing to do with the RGB gains and bias controls.

Gains and Bias are for grayscale. They are just contrast and brightness controls.

I recall that Samsung removed the CMS on the B5 series ... so the color filter is all you have and color and tint are all you play with. Nothing more.

If you want CMS ... you bought the wrong TV. :( But of course you need instrumentation to get the CMS right and a filter is not considered to be instrumentation here.

Likely your DVD player is clipping white before the tV even gets the signal. You don't mention what type of DVD player you are using.

regards


So regarding the Blue, Green, Red test..........the best I can do is what I've already done, which is get the Blue tweaked as good as possible???

Is there any settings in the service menu worth trying, or no?




I am using my PS3 to play the HD Basics Blu-ray.

I notice that with HDMI Super White set to "On" in the PS3 Video Settings menu I am able to see a distinction between White and Above White during the test, but I am still not able to find a set point during the test where contrast clips/doesn't clip.

I.E. - I still don't know if the contrast is being set right, or how to set it right.

So regarding the Blue, Green, Red test..........the best I can do is what I've already done, which is get the Blue tweaked as good as possible???

Is there any settings in the service menu worth trying, or no?




I am using my PS3 to play the HD Basics Blu-ray.

I notice that with HDMI Super White set to "On" in the PS3 Video Settings menu I am able to see a distinction between White and Above White during the test, but I am still not able to find a set point during the test where contrast clips/doesn't clip.

I.E. - I still don't know if the contrast is being set right, or how to set it right.

There is a nice thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1139456) where much advice has been collected about setting contrast. Reading there you will see that not finding a point where white clips is a good thing.

I don't know about the Samsung's plasma B5xx series, but for the LNxxB550 LCD I was able to find a CMS in the service menu, not quite as functional nor as convenient as in the B6xx and above LCD models. Still, as with the grayscale controls, you need instrumentation to be able to make adjustments to improve anything. If you don't have instruments to do the user level grayscale calibration, don't even think about entering the service menu.

There is a nice thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1139456) where much advice has been collected about setting contrast. Reading there you will see that not finding a point where white clips is a good thing.

I don't know about the Samsung's plasma B5xx series, but for the LNxxB550 LCD I was able to find a CMS in the service menu, not quite as functional nor as convenient as in the B6xx and above LCD models. Still, as with the grayscale controls, you need instrumentation to be able to make adjustments to improve anything. If you don't have instruments to do the user level grayscale calibration, don't even think about entering the service menu.

I will definitely stay out of the service menu then!


And thanks for the link.
I'm still a little confused though.........so since White and Whiter then White clip together no matter what (probably because the PS3 is cutting off any Whiter then White color signal), should I just set the contrast to a level that my eyes prefer/can handle?

Because I can easily watch The Dark Knight with contrast at 100 without any problem in an all dark room, so there is no "too high for my eyes" setting in terms of contrast.
I just want the most realistic setting possible and without a piece of equipment, I am not sure what a good test to use would be for contrast.....


***And without the proper equipment/service menu tweaks, is there any way I can get all of the white bars to step down in whiteness gradually, like they are supposed to?
Because bars 5, 8, and 9 of the test pattern have a sort of bluish/gray tint to them when they are supposed to be a soft white/light gray color (i.e. - those bars are not stepping down the gray scale correctly).



Sorry for all the hassle...just want to get this display running as best as possible, because right now it's gorgeous, but I know I can tweak it a little more.

Greetings

Follow the three rules for setting contrast.

I don't know what a realistic setting is. Who decides? (Like asking us how long a piece of string should be.)

If you want more control over the grayscale than a 2 point system that the TV gives you, then you have to spend $4000 more to add a Lumagen scaler that does 11 point grayscale.

regards

I will definitely stay out of the service menu then!


And thanks for the link.
I'm still a little confused though.........so since White and Whiter then White clip together no matter what (probably because the PS3 is cutting off any Whiter then White color signal), should I just set the contrast to a level that my eyes prefer/can handle?

The PS3 does not clip if you set it right, YCbCr on with superwhites turned on.

So regarding the Blue, Green, Red test..........the best I can do is what I've already done, which is get the Blue tweaked as good as possible???

Hold on, back up, did you adjust any of the R, G, B color controls for this while looking at colorbars!? NoNO! you cannot do that. Reset all those controls if so. On colorbars you have to use the color saturation control. You do NOT use RGB gains/cuts to set color saturation and colorbalance using colorbars.



Is there any settings in the service menu worth trying, or no?

Not unless you have instrumentation, and even then I wouldn't recommend it because you've got access to what you'd need in the user menus anyway. Given you're at a fairly beginner's knowledge level, stick with the basics, or hire a professional.


I am using my PS3 to play the HD Basics Blu-ray.

I notice that with HDMI Super White set to "On" in the PS3 Video Settings menu I am able to see a distinction between White and Above White during the test, but I am still not able to find a set point during the test where contrast clips/doesn't clip.

I.E. - I still don't know if the contrast is being set right, or how to set it right.

On a plasma, I would go low as possible that still yields you a pleasing white level.

Hold on, back up, did you adjust any of the R, G, B color controls for this while looking at colorbars!? NoNO! you cannot do that. Reset all those controls if so. On colorbars you have to use the color saturation control. You do NOT use RGB gains/cuts to set color saturation and colorbalance using colorbars.




Not unless you have instrumentation, and even then I wouldn't recommend it because you've got access to what you'd need in the user menus anyway. Given you're at a fairly beginner's knowledge level, stick with the basics, or hire a professional.




On a plasma, I would go low as possible that still yields you a pleasing white level.


Oh no no, I didn't change any of the color gains/cuts.
I experimented with them, realized they didn't affect anything (to my eyes), so I put them all back at default setting.

All I changed when using the blue color filter was the Green-Red tint setting. I moved that setting so that the color is tinted more towards red, which yielded perfect blue color through the blue filter.
Is that the correct way of doing the Blue filter test?
(DVE said that the Blue is the most important.......)



Back to contrast.......so I should leave Super White set to "On" for the PS3 and then go back and re-do the contrast/brightness tests?
Won't that affect the picture on non-PS3 movies (say an HD-DVD I play through my 360)?

And as far as contrast goes.....Since I can't get my test pattern to clip any of the whites, I should just settle on the lowest contrast possible that still offers the most pleasing whites?
What if (just saying) a contrast of 100 is the most pleasing to me??

...
***And without the proper equipment/service menu tweaks, is there any way I can get all of the white bars to step down in whiteness gradually, like they are supposed to?
Because bars 5, 8, and 9 of the test pattern have a sort of bluish/gray tint to them when they are supposed to be a soft white/light gray color (i.e. - those bars are not stepping down the gray scale correctly).

Sorry for all the hassle...just want to get this display running as best as possible, because right now it's gorgeous, but I know I can tweak it a little more.

The problem with trying to tweak the grayscale by eye, even when you recognize a bluish tint in one area of the pattern, is deciding what action to take. Is there too much blue? Is there not enough red? With instruments, you can tell what remedy to apply. I expect your Samsung plasma has a gamma control, as well as the 2 point grayscale controls you mentioned. So there is a lot going on when trying to get the grayscale color balance and levels right.

Greetings

If 100 works ... then it works. There is nothing inherently dangerous about the number 100

regards

My only other questions is this:

Since the PS3 has the "Super White" option, will tweaking my TV with this option on affect the image quality of another source?

I.E. - Since I am using a the DVE Blu-Ray to tweak my contrast, and since my PS3 offers a Super White option, will an HD-DVD movie or a Starz HD movie look different since they don't offer a Super White option and I tweaked my setting to a source that did offer such a setting?

Adjust the color and tint/hue using the blue filter. Look at the blue/white colorbars for the color control and the magenta/cyan for the tint control all while looking through a blue filter. Make sure to check it though with reference material which DVE has. Not sure if your particular Samsung set has the blue mode. If it does, turn it on and use that instead of the filter...should be much more accurate. You shouldn't have to move tint very much...maybe a notch or two. I would adjust color first then tint, but that is just me.

Greetings

There usually is not WTW from HD DVD on the 360. All the stand alone players did not show WTW. Only the XA2 had the controls to fix this.

regards

Greetings

There usually is not WTW from HD DVD on the 360. All the stand alone players did not show WTW. Only the XA2 had the controls to fix this.

regards

So basically when I watch a Blu-Ray the whites may seem a little more "white" and clean then on an HD-DVD?

But I should leave the "Super White" option 'on' when I calibrate my contrast using HD Basics?

greetings

Yes ... leave super white on.

It won't really have a negative impact on the HD DVD. You may have to dig up an HD DVD DVE and calibrate for that if you want to be absolutely sure.

Otherwise ... don't worry about it and be happy. Can't worry about stuff you can't control.
regards

Thanks everyone for the help.

Time to go put all this learned info into practice and see if I can't get my settings tweaked just a little bit more!

Greetings

If 100 works ... then it works. There is nothing inherently dangerous about the number 100

regards

But it's a plasma.(maybe you missed that part?)

My only other questions is this:

Since the PS3 has the "Super White" option, will tweaking my TV with this option on affect the image quality of another source?

I.E. - Since I am using a the DVE Blu-Ray to tweak my contrast, and since my PS3 offers a Super White option, will an HD-DVD movie or a Starz HD movie look different since they don't offer a Super White option and I tweaked my setting to a source that did offer such a setting?

No not a problem. You should not be maximizing white on a plasma, so you won't really have a clip point in the display anyway, and you should choose an arbitrary lower white point that is still bright enough, but not too bright, so as to prolong the display life. That's why I suggested to go as LOW as possible with the contrast control that still maintains a pleasing white level.

This advice only applies for plasmas and CRTs, LCDs, LCOS, DLP are all very different, and there the goal is the opposite, which is to maximize white level as much as possible.

Greetings

Plasma or not ...

If 100 meets the requirements of the 3 steps for contrast ... why is that wrong? You will need to show me why that is bad.

Regards

I just scanned the replies, not reading everything in detail, but there are a couple of points that were made without explaining what's going on... (unless I missed the detail, if I did, sorry for the redundancy)...

The PS3's Superwhite option is NOTHING fancy or unusual and it doesn't affect the "quality" or "tone" of whites at all... it merely stops the PS3 from cutting off digital values above 235. Consumer video sources use the YCbCr data format which uses digital 16 to represent black and digital 235 to represent "reference white". Some displays or disc players will put hard limits for data and only send/display 16-235. The problem is... 235 is not a hard limit... discs are mastered with data above 235 (typically in highlights) so it's really not appropriate for displays or disc players to limit data to that 235 "reference white" level. If I remember right, the HD DVD players pretty much all will pass data above 235 anyway so if they had a "Superwhite" option it would already be "On" in those players (and many others that handle data above 235 correctly.

The other issue is the Contrast setting... I agree with Michael that 100 may be a perfectly OK setting. But in most cases it is NOT the best setting (yes, there are a few exceptions). No disc can tell you what the right setting is for the Contrast control EXCEPT, the pattern(s) on the disc can reveal the setting where the display begins to exhibit problems - you may see a color tint appear in the white or whiter-than-white steps (whiter-than-white is that data that's above 235). Obviously you don't want to see that so if you begin to get discolorations visible at a setting of 92 (for example) that would mean that (perhaps) 91 would be the highest setting you'd ever want to use for that particular viewing mode. BUT, if you are setting up (what you are doing is not calibration, by the way, and this discussion really doesn't belong in this calibration thread which is dedicated to instrumented calibration... meaning using a meter and calibration software)... anyway... 91 may be the highest setting you'd ever want to use, but it MAY produce way too much light for viewing in a dark room. THX recommends 30 fL for panel displays in dark rooms (for a 100% white window pattern). Some people seem to like 35 fL and occasionally you'll see people who even prefer 40 fL, but for me, 40 fL begins to cause eyestrain from the bright screen against a black/dark background. So let's say you decide you want 30 fL for 100% white. This is a simple thing to setup if you have a meter... you display a 100% white window pattern and adjust the Contrast control until you have 30 fL. Without a meter, you are just guessing what the luminance level is. You can eventually settle on a reasonable contrast control setting for a dark room by viewing a movie and actively noting during the movie if you feel like you are squinting or otherwise struggling with trying to make the picture darker during the brighter scenes. Also, at the end of the movie, do you feel fatigue or the beginnings of a headache? If so, reduce the Contrast setting a few steps and take note of your comfort levels the next time you view a movie - it will take a good 2 hours or so for discomfort/fatigue to be apparent when you are close to the right setting for Contrast. When you arrive at a comfortable setting, you should be able to view an entire 2 or 3 hour movie without the feeling of squinting and there should be no fatigue or feeling your eyes (or brain) were working overtime to make the viewing comfortable. Anyway... the point is, the instructions with the disc are designed to tell you what the highest possible setting is for the Contrast control (when you follow their instructions). Without a meter, it can be difficult to achieve the RIGHT setting for Contrast in a dark room. If you never view the display in a dark room, all bets are off as room light will just about always negate eyestrain (though it may also mess up the perceived color you see because of light reflecting off colored surfaces in the room).

The bottom line is... it sounds like the disc has shown you that you CAN use a Contrast setting as high as 100... but the disc and the instructions that come with it can't help you find a comfortable setting for Contrast because you don't have the meter you need to determine when the display is producing 30 fL (or other level you decide is right for you). So you're on sort of an experimental journey for a while trying to find a comfortable Contrast setting for your viewing conditions. Sometimes in the threads for specific video displays, someone in the thread will have a meter and they will provide (voluntarily or after a request) the Contrast setting that produces 30 fL or 35 fL in some specific viewing mode. That won't necessarily be "perfect" for your display, but it will probably be in the general vicinity of being reasonable - it's at least a starting point. It's good to know that your display which is OK even when set to 100 really produces 30 fL when Contrast is set to 42 (for example). That would save a lot of trial and error. You may find your ultimate best Contrast setting is really 45 or 37 or something like that - but at least you won't be wasting time trying settings like 87 or 74, etc. There is no magic a disc can show you that will reveal when you are set to 30 fL for a 100% white window - so without a meter, you're just guessing.

Greetings

Plasma or not ...

If 100 meets the requirements of the 3 steps for contrast ... why is that wrong? You will need to show me why that is bad.

Regards

You're just driving the phosphors that much harder, reducing the display life. Unless you need that much light output, which usually you don't (unless you're in a really bright space), then going with a dimmer picture will prolong display life and reduce wear/burn-in risks.

Further, I'm skeptical of pushing white level all the way unless you can measure 100% windows, because it can be very hard to see colorshifting sometimes, and if it's just phosphor saturation (like on pioneers) and it shifts towards blue it may appear just fine, but it's still too high.

I tend to approach a plasma more like a CRT in this sense, want to keep the white level lower generally unless you particularly need that light output. You COULD drive a CRT really hard and not have blooming, geometry distortion, or phosphor saturation (aka colorshifting), but is there a particularly compelling reason to drive the tube that hard? If not, IMO, don't.

Greetings

This part of the discussion is just theoretical and hypothetical.

If one has accounted for the rules for setting contrast ... and they are all still met with a 100% setting ...

No Clipping ... no discoloration ... no eye fatigue ...

Then where would you suggest that a person set his contrast at? 99% ... 50% ... 10% ... 1% ... the TV will last a lot longer at 1% ...

On the THX panasonic plasma sets for instance ... it is very easy to have the TV in the THX mode with contrast at 100% and still have a dim image. Are you saying that this 100% is therefore bad and over driving the TV? but in the same TV ... if the person sets it to Standard mode ... with a contrast at 75% ... which is actually way brighter than the THX mode ... then that is okay because that is not over driving the same TV?

Where do you draw the line at where contrast should be then? We've already me the necessary criteria for setting contrast.

Without knowing the environment that a person is using the TV in ... I would not pretend to tell anyone don't set it to 100%. As we can see even within one TV ... 100% contrast is not always the same thing in each mode.

Regards

Greetings

This part of the discussion is just theoretical and hypothetical.

If one has accounted for the rules for setting contrast ... and they are all still met with a 100% setting ...

No Clipping ... no discoloration ... no eye fatigue ...

Then where would you suggest that a person set his contrast at? 99% ... 50% ... 10% ... 1% ... the TV will last a lot longer at 1% ...

On the THX panasonic plasma sets for instance ... it is very easy to have the TV in the THX mode with contrast at 100% and still have a dim image. Are you saying that this 100% is therefore bad and over driving the TV? but in the same TV ... if the person sets it to Standard mode ... with a contrast at 75% ... which is actually way brighter than the THX mode ... then that is okay because that is not over driving the same TV?

Where do you draw the line at where contrast should be then? We've already me the necessary criteria for setting contrast.

Without knowing the environment that a person is using the TV in ... I would not pretend to tell anyone don't set it to 100%. As we can see even within one TV ... 100% contrast is not always the same thing in each mode.

Regards

Right. I don't disagree with that at all, and I'm not saying that setting it to the maximum of an arbitrary range is inherently a bad thing, but generally speaking it's more likely to be problematic than setting it lower. THX modes may be an exception because they'll be much dimmer at 100%, it's not the number at all which is my concern (which is irrelevant), but rather driving the phosphors as hard as possible. Maxed out on THX mode though, is FAR from maxed out on the panel so that's not so much a concern. But if you were in a standard mode, driving the panel fully to 100% isn't the goal.

My point is that the goal in setting white level for a phosphor-based display like a CRT or a plasma is not the same as it is with an LCD, LCOS, or DLP based display. On the latter, you want to go as high as possible before clipping/colorshifting. On a CRT or a plasma, setting white level higher drives the tube/panel harder to get the light output, and this reduces display life.

This just makes choosing a white point on a CRT or a plasma fairly difficult to explain, and can become somewhat arbitrary. There isn't a suggested point, and that's the difficulty we have in suggesting where they should set it. Even if you have measuring equipment, it's still difficult to target how bright you want across the board, because some phosphor-based displays can be driven much harder than others without running into problems.

The issue, and perhaps I'm a bit stuck in CRT-history, is that many people have wrongly confused the advice for LCD/DLP/LCOS to CRT/Plasmas, and then go set their white level as high as they possibly can, which is NOT really a good idea. I think it's more effective to suggest finding the picture-damaging maximum, and use that as a maximum upper bound. Then, lower white level to a still-pleasing level. This will vary based on preference, environment, etc, and it is somewhat arbitrary, even with measuring equipment. Do you target 40fL? 30fL? Less? More? Sort of depends.

I'm not stuck on 100% at all as a range value, my concern is just leading people to be driving their phosphors to the maximum. If that means setting it to 100% on THX mode which is less than 75% on standard mode (% values which are unrelated to each other and also rather arbitrary), then that's good.

What I don't want is people putting the set into vivid, or standard, or something whose adjustment range goes way way too high, and then be under the impression that there is nothing of concern to setting the control fully to the maximum as long as they don't see any clipping or colorshifting. For an LCD that advice is not a problem. For a plasma though, that is missing part of the issue.

Greetings

This part of the discussion is just theoretical and hypothetical.

If one has accounted for the rules for setting contrast ... and they are all still met with a 100% setting ...

No Clipping ... no discoloration ... no eye fatigue ...

Then where would you suggest that a person set his contrast at? 99% ... 50% ... 10% ... 1% ... the TV will last a lot longer at 1% ...

On the THX panasonic plasma sets for instance ... it is very easy to have the TV in the THX mode with contrast at 100% and still have a dim image. Are you saying that this 100% is therefore bad and over driving the TV? but in the same TV ... if the person sets it to Standard mode ... with a contrast at 75% ... which is actually way brighter than the THX mode ... then that is okay because that is not over driving the same TV?

Where do you draw the line at where contrast should be then? We've already me the necessary criteria for setting contrast.

Without knowing the environment that a person is using the TV in ... I would not pretend to tell anyone don't set it to 100%. As we can see even within one TV ... 100% contrast is not always the same thing in each mode.

Regards

There is a criteria, but you need a meter. White level of plasmas is supposed to be set such that the white portion of the 100 IRE window measures at a luminosity of between 30-40 ftL. If you watch the set in the dark, 30 ftL is plenty. This is irrespective of the number on your contrast control and the mode you are in.

Greetings

Yes there is a criteria ... which was established based on a reference viewing environment.

Now if you don't have that environment ... or even know what it looks like, then blindly using the number is a silly thing to do.

And most people won't have that environment ... or environments similar to the next person across the street.

That's why there is the 3 step criteria to setting contrast. What if you clip or discolor your image with a 30 fL setting? Is that a good thing?

When one follows the 3 step approach ... they set it up right for their environment ... and their own way of seeing the world when it comes to light output. And they also come to better understand the limitations of the display that they bought.

The process is not black and white.

Regards

Greetings

Chris, we don't disagree at all. :)

It's why I originally said that 100% wasn't necessarily a wrong place to set it. With the caveat that the 3 rules of contrast were met. In normal practice ... when those 3 rules/conditions are met people normally won't end up with a setting of 100% contrast on the TV.

Our original poster has a Samsung plasma. The 100% setting in Movie mode is less than 100 of Standard ... and that is less than 100% of Dynamic mode. Depending on how his room looks with the ambient light and all ... 100% could work for him in Movie mode ... (although that tends to go to 80 on most of the samsung sets, but it is beside the point because the internal sub contrast on his unit might be jacked lower for whatever reason.)

100% here won't do near the life reducing damage as the other modes.

But if they did ... then it would tell us that the 100% output was likely far lower than most other displays that we see day after day. The THX mode for instance.

Or it meant that the viewing environment likely had enough ambient light to make the image unwatchable otherwise. In such at case ... prolonging the life of the TV is not a goal of calibration. then again ... prolonging the life of a TV actually has never been a requirement of calibration. If the goal was to get to an accurate image ... and that end result somehow cut the life of the set by half ... we would still do it. The goal is accuracy ... not longevity. If someone wants longevity ...they should likely not watch tv at all or buy a smaller tv. :)

Funny thing is ... what is so hard about following the three rules to setting contrast? Sure it is open ended a bit ... but it does require people to think about what they are doing ... rather than mindlessly aiming for one holy grail number and thinking that is all that is needed. Isn't this like copying settings from other people's TVs? :D

Regards

Well just add into this discussion a bit..........my room is totally dark when I watch movies.
At first, a contrast setting of 100 with a brightness of 50 (in Movie mode) seemed good. But then I went back to the DVE disc and played around a little more.

I bumped the color tone down to Warm1 (instead of Warm2) and found that a contrast of 85, with a brightness of 53 and Gamma -1 was the most pleasing and and best blacks I could get without crush or over brightness.

Greetings

Chris, we don't disagree at all. :)

It's why I originally said that 100% wasn't necessarily a wrong place to set it. With the caveat that the 3 rules of contrast were met. In normal practice ... when those 3 rules/conditions are met people normally won't end up with a setting of 100% contrast on the TV.

Our original poster has a Samsung plasma. The 100% setting in Movie mode is less than 100 of Standard ... and that is less than 100% of Dynamic mode. Depending on how his room looks with the ambient light and all ... 100% could work for him in Movie mode ... (although that tends to go to 80 on most of the samsung sets, but it is beside the point because the internal sub contrast on his unit might be jacked lower for whatever reason.)

100% here won't do near the life reducing damage as the other modes.

But if they did ... then it would tell us that the 100% output was likely far lower than most other displays that we see day after day. The THX mode for instance.

Or it meant that the viewing environment likely had enough ambient light to make the image unwatchable otherwise. In such at case ... prolonging the life of the TV is not a goal of calibration. then again ... prolonging the life of a TV actually has never been a requirement of calibration. If the goal was to get to an accurate image ... and that end result somehow cut the life of the set by half ... we would still do it. The goal is accuracy ... not longevity. If someone wants longevity ...they should likely not watch tv at all or buy a smaller tv. :)

Funny thing is ... what is so hard about following the three rules to setting contrast? Sure it is open ended a bit ... but it does require people to think about what they are doing ... rather than mindlessly aiming for one holy grail number and thinking that is all that is needed. Isn't this like copying settings from other people's TVs? :D

Regards

Exactly. Although I wouldn't completely discount the longevity issue, but as I said before, I'm slightly biased because I'm coming from projection CRTs where it's more concerning, though arguably my concerns are becoming more totally obsolete.

I guess in the simplest terms, LCD/LCOS/DLP you want to set white level as high as you possibly can.

But on Plasmas, CRTs, etc, you don't follow that advice, and that's the major difference. The strategy is not one of maximizing the white level as much as possible, but simply of reaching a sufficient level of light output for the viewing environment, and I think the best way to communicate this to novices is to suggest setting white level as low as possible that still yields a satisfactory white (not gray or dingy).

So I guess I just like to highlight the difference in strategy to approaching how you're setting white depending on the display type.

wow! I was looking for a canned answer for calibration settings...I just got schooled.