Watching the Angels/A's game on FOX in the Los Angeles market. Is anybody else noticing this effect on some of their cameras? Some have the normal video look to it while the main cam and a couple of others appear to have a slight stutter or almost 24p movie effect. I'm starting to think this is intentional. It was happening during the All-Star game, and another FOX Saturday game the week prior. I don't know, just kind of weird and distracting for my taste. Or maybe it's just a local issue.

I noticed the same thing on my Fox HD Comcast signal here in Northern Virginia during the All Star Game. Major stuttering effect any ideas or explanations would be helpful

I have noticed this too, and find it highly distracting.

Same here, when watching ESPN, Cubs game. Switched over to another game, forget the channel, no issues. I would say the problem is at the source, not your set.

Mike

hmmm, yeah its only when I watch Fox baseball in HD. No issues on any other programming.

Almost sounds like the camera shutter speed is higher than 1/60th second. Is the motion still smooth, or is a bit jerky (like 30P or 24P)?

Almost sounds like the camera shutter speed is higher than 1/60th second. Is the motion still smooth, or is a bit jerky (like 30P or 24P)?

Could they be cutting 180Hz SuperSloMo cameras up live? (They often look horrid live as they output every 1/3rd 180Hz frame - with a very short shutter setting)

No, i'm certain it has nothing to do with a higher shutter speed setting that the super slow mo cameras posess. Its on the main center field camera and has more to do with a movie like slow film non video appearance is the best way i can describe it. Kinda like what producers will apply when showing halftime/postgame montage highlights.

I noticed this on all recent Fox MLB broadcasts as well. However, when I switch to the OTA feed it seems to not happen. I'm on Comcast. Maybe it's a Comcast thing?

I'll check my OTA status the next broadcast. I watch through Charter Cable.

The effect has now spread to ESPN... I'm currently watching the Sox-Rays game on Cox HD Cable in San Diego and every camera angle has the bizarre 24p effect that I've noticed on all games on Fox since the game the OP referenced.

I found this forum after Googling randomly to try to figure out what's going on with HD MLB broadcasts this year. Glad to see I'm not the only one who's noticed it, but I'm also shocked that none of the major baseball writers have written anything about it.

I have the same problem as the original post. "Stutter" effect only on Fox MLB broadcasts from the centerfield camera. First noticed it on the All-Star game broadcast and has continued since. Watching on Comcast in Charleston, SC.

Most broadcast cameras that can handle 24p have to be configured to do so at the CCU. It's not something that can be easily done, or a switch that can be accidentally hit while on air, even on the Thomsons which are format switchable at the camera head. Furthermore the truck would likely have to be configured to handle a true 24fps signal, or introduce some sort of pulldown from 30i or 60p. It's also highly unlikely people in the truck wouldn't notice this, or the camera op for that matter. I would almost chalk the choppiness up to a 1/30 shutter if it was just one camera and not across networks.

Because its happening everywhere though, makes me wonder if a headend somewhere is introducing a pulldown. It's also strange that you would only see it one camera and not an entire broadcast.

ABC, I'd be interested to know if this is an issue with a local affiliate's splicer.

now I'm really curious to see this effect. Will be watching for it next week. Anyone have a sample? We can step through the frames to determine the cadence

Anyone noticing this effect on the Eagles/Colts game on Fox tonight? I'm watching on TWC.

Anyone noticing this effect on the Eagles/Colts game on Fox tonight? I'm watching on TWC.

Yes, I saw it this evening during the football game. I'm guessing this has something to do with the splicer upgrade perhaps. It's uncomfortable for my viewing. I'm curious to see the highlights of it on Sportscenter this evening and whether or not it exhibits the same effect.

Edit, just saw the Sportcenter highlights and it is stutter free, must be a local issue for me and a few other posters on here.

Charter Cable

Yes, I saw it this evening during the football game. I'm guessing this has something to do with the splicer upgrade perhaps. It's uncomfortable for my viewing. I'm curious to see the highlights of it on Sportscenter this evening and whether or not it exhibits the same effect.

Edit, just saw the Sportcenter highlights and it is stutter free, must be a local issue for me and a few other posters on here.

Charter CableESPN picks up a satellite feed separate from FOX Master Control.

That said, I caught a few minutes of the game (OTA / WTTG-DT / DC) and noticed no stuttering in general. There may have been a slight sense of it on one main camera shot? But I'm not sure about that; it could have been just my eyes or interlacing effects (it was viewed on an SDTV).

Considering the problem seems to happen with multiple cable companies, on more than one 720p channel, the stuttering may have to do with an incompatibility with an encoder at the cable headend.

Yes, I saw it this evening during the football game. I'm guessing this has something to do with the splicer upgrade perhaps. It's uncomfortable for my viewing.



I saw this on last night's broadcast of the game as well. I'm on Time Warner in Rochester, NY.

It's uncomfortable for my viewing.

+1. I guess watching the Panthers' games this year won't be much fun, unless this problem is rectified. :mad:

Anyone notice weird video stuttering on some shots?

No, but it does look better than anything else I've seen on Fox in a long long time. (Watching OTA in Tampa on WTVT).

Yes, I noticed it in the FOX game last night too. It's very annoying. It doesn't happen on the SD feed. I'm watching on Time Warner Cable on FOX 5 WNYW out of NYC.

The new stadium looks amazing especially the giant HD screen.

Which shots specifically? Usually I'm really sensitive to any judder or stuttering.

I saw this on last night's broadcast of the game as well. I'm on Time Warner in Rochester, NY.

Syracuse too. It's already happening on tonight's Cowboys game.

To all the people thinking they might have seen it, you will definately know when it happens. Its distracting to the point of being unwatchable.

Looks like every shot to me. It's not constant either, it lasts for a few seconds then stops, then happens again. Almost looks like the screen is shaking.

thread merged.

Happening on NFL game on FOX on TWC in NYC...agree that it's unwatchable.

I am getting the same stuttering on the main field-view camera for the Cowboys-Titans game. I'm on Comcast in New Hampshire. Stinks.

Not seeing anything unusual on WJBK-DT FOX Detroit.

If you are seeing the problem, post the city and call letters of the FOX HD station you are watching, and your provider; OTA, Cable, DBS, Verizon, AT&T.

Looks great here. One of the best looking games ever on Fox. Sound mix is pretty good for Fox too. KDFW Dallas via FiOS. Not seeing any stuttering.

Gorgeous picture here...Audio not up to par with Sunday Night Football in my opinion...New stadium is awesome...Stable video no shaking...

WXIX
Cincinnati
OTA

The video does seem a little hot.

I have noticed this as well. It's most noticeable when by cable box was outputting FOX at 1080i and displaying on my 1080p dlp.

Changing the cable box to output at 720p made most of it go away. Also watching over the air or via the tv's QAM tuner did not show noticable stutter.

Lots of stuttering here. TWC NE Ohio. Last nights game too. OTA looks great.

Is the Cowboys game on in HD? I am in the Atlanta market and the game is only in SD on Comcast.

I have noticed this as well. It's most noticeable when by cable box was outputting FOX at 1080i and displaying on my 1080p dlp.

Changing the cable box to output at 720p made most of it go away. Also watching over the air or via the tv's QAM tuner did not show noticable stutter.

And again...

If you are seeing the problem, post the city and call letters of the FOX HD station you are watching, and your provider; OTA, Cable, DBS, Verizon, AT&T.

Looking great here in Chicago. Best PQ I've seen on FOX, and without a doubt the best Fox Audio I've heard for a Fox NFL broadcast. What did they do to improve the PQ?

Yes, the stuttering has continued. Frustrating that only some people are seeing this, hope this is dealt with and fixed soon!

Charter Cable

What did they do to improve the PQ?

Splicer upgrade i'm assuming??

The new stadium looks amazing especially the giant HD screen.I already told my wife that I want one. At least after the current projector goes.

They did something, I just hope they can deliver this level of quality all season for every game. I doubt it.

Topics merged.

And again:

If you are seeing the problem, post the city and call letters of the FOX HD station you are watching, and your provider; OTA, Cable, DBS, Verizon, AT&T.

....and without a doubt the best Fox Audio I've heard for a Fox NFL broadcast.?

FOX has always had great 5.1. Nothing at all has changed in that respect.

http://14.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kor60kv9mQ1qzu186o1_500.jpg

A guy on Flickr posted the Cowboys 1080P screen playing Madden on the PS3. insane
the game looks really good tonight but i am also noticing a bit of stutter on comcast in Miami

some specs on the screen:
Width: 159’ 7-1/16”
Height: 71’ 4-3/4”
Total LEDs: 10,584,064
Pixel-Pitch: 20mm
Screen Area: 11,393 square feet
Power Consumption: 635 Kilowatts
Screen Weight: Approx. 170,000 lbs
Video Source: 1080p HDTV
Resolution: 2,176 x 4,864

the game looks really good tonight but i am also noticing a bit of stutter on comcast in Miami
For those of you who haven't figured it out, I'm trying to get it fixed, but I need help.

If you are seeing the problem, post the city and call letters of the FOX HD station you are watching, and your provider; OTA, Cable, DBS, Verizon, AT&T.

Watching the Ttians/Cowboys game. Absolutely no stuttering visible so far.

OTA / WTTG-DT / DC

Stuttering

Los Angeles, CA
KTTV FOX 11

OTA and Charter Cable

Bad stuttering tonight and last night

TWC, WNYW FOX 5, New York City

I'm getting audio sync/stutters. Same thing happened a couple weeks ago when I was watching Red Sox Yankee game. I believe instead of video stuttering I'm hearing audio stutter. This is the only channel.

Directv, WXXA-23 FOX, Albany, NY

No stutter here on Comcast in the Chicago area......looks great btw.

Ok. After messing around with a bit, it appears that the problem may be with the way my cable box decodes the signals (Explorer 8300HDC). If I plug the cable coax into my TV, and let its QAM tuner decode it, it looks great. Once I plug it back into the Explorer, same signal is choppy.

FOX WSYT, TWC-CNY.

Edit: Finally figured out how to change the screen resolution on my box, and changing it to 720p (my TV's native resolution), does nothing to quell the stuttering.

Bad stuttering on WTTG Fox 5 DC via Comcast.

?

FOX has always had great 5.1. Nothing at all has changed in that respect.

Ken - I agree it's always been good, but tonight's game seems to have better crowd presence. Overall the mix seems much improved; definitely in the league with SNF. Nothing has changed on my system.

http://14.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kor60kv9mQ1qzu186o1_500.jpg

A guy on Flickr posted the Cowboys 1080P screen playing Madden on the PS3. insane
the game looks really good tonight but i am also noticing a bit of stutter on comcast in Miami

some specs on the screen:
Width: 159’ 7-1/16”
Height: 71’ 4-3/4”
Total LEDs: 10,584,064
Pixel-Pitch: 20mm
Screen Area: 11,393 square feet
Power Consumption: 635 Kilowatts
Screen Weight: Approx. 170,000 lbs
Video Source: 1080p HDTV
Resolution: 2,176 x 4,864

OK.... anyone have a pic of the remote??? :D

I'm getting some stutter... most of the time right when the ball is hiked. It seemed to happen more during the first half then now (middle of 4th).

Time Warner Cable, Albany NY.

I'm getting some stutter... most of the time right when the ball is hiked. It seemed to happen more during the first half then now (middle of 4th).

Time Warner Cable, Albany NY.Also watching via TWC Albany, NY on WXXA. Only watched a few minutes of the Dallas game tonight, but saw the same effect I noticed last Saturday afternoon watching Mets baseball. It looks to me as if a frame here and there is being dropped (or repeated) as players in motion seem to skip ahead periodically to a new location. My 8300 DVR is configured to pass thru 720P to my 1080P plasma. Never noticed this during sports any time in the past on Fox until recently; at about the time this thread started.

Watched both the Eagles and Cowboys games. All of them looked good, no stutter effect on Comcast. The PQ on the Eagles game was some of the best live HD i've ever seen on TV ever. It was stunning. Detailed, sharp, contrasty, deep blacks and crisp whites, nice saturation. Very nicely done. The Cowboys game seemed to be a bit noisy to me, had some issues with the grass, not swimming but just noisy. Maybe the bar was set high by the Eagles game the night before, which to me set a new standard, reminded me of the old days of HD. The ESPN highlights were a noticeable downgrade from the OTA broadcast (that's to be expected, though a lot of ESPN highlights look better than the actual game did in some instances).

So I did a little diagnostic work last night during the game. I have two HD tvs - one has the SA8300HDC box and the other has the SA4250HDC box. Both boxes exhibited the stuttering during the game. However when I used the internal QAM tuners in the tvs, there was no stuttering. I even monkeyed around with the settings in the boxes to see if that would have an effect. I tried simple pass-through as well as fixing the resolution at 720p. Neither corrected the stutter. So, it would appear that the boxes were have some issues with the live programming. Let me just say, this did not happen last season. Nor does it occur during the commercials. Again, I am in Rochester, NY on TWC and the station is WUHF - Fox Rochester 31.

Well it not happening during the commercials in a way makes sense since for the most part the commercials are locally inserted and are not of the national level...But with that in mind one would think that the national commercials would show a sign of shaking...

As I reported earlier there was no shaking or stuttering or judder...whatever you want to call it...here on my set using an OTA antenna and a set top HD box...not one of the CECB but an actual DVI output HD ATSC tuner...on my CRT HD RPTV...Man that's alot of acronyms ;)!!! I did not attempt to check using the STB QAM reception (more acronyms! ;) ) as it has been my experience that nothing is better than OTA quality for both picture and sound...QAM is certainly acceptable but I want the best possible and the best is the source that goes thru the least amount of processing ergo OTA...

I will say that while I still say SNF has better audio the PQ on FOX was absolutely outstanding last night...Our local FOX does its 10 o'clock news in HD and it looked SD in comparison to the game...Pretty damn sad if you ask me since both were 'live' feeds...The AQ was nothing to sneeze at but I think the reason it sounded so different from what we are used to is because of the size and acoustics of the new Cowboys stadium...I'll have to hear SNF in that statdium to be able to comment with any authority regarding that presumption though...

Odd that there have been no reports of shaking from SD cable users I think...I can't imagine why all the cable boxes all over the country were the only ones exhibiting issues...

KSAZ in Gilbert, AZ had the same problem last night. I saw the stuttering using an 8300HD on Cox Cable. Viewing it with a qam tuner on another TV did not have the stuttering.

I was viewing a replay of the Titan/Cowboys game earlier today on NFLHD using the 8300HD and it did not have the stuttering.

Yankees @ Red Sox, viewing WJBK-DT FOX Detroit, Comcast. No problems.

KTTV-DT HD via OTA and E* - no stutter.

I'm watching the Yankees v. Redsox on Fox-HD (WSYT) broadcast from Syracuse via TWC-Ithaca. I'm still seeing the jittery display, but it appears to be only from the center field cam view.

Has anyone found out what is causing this? I've noticed it before today as well. I've switched the cable box to feed 720p, but that still doesn't fix it.

Not noticing any video problems.

But i did just figure out a neat trick - I went to SAP on my cable box - and Boom! - no more Tim McCarver - all I'm left with is the game noise.

Seems like most of the problems are coming from those using SA boxes. Still no problems today on KDFW Dallas via FiOS using a Moto 6416 HD DVR box or a QAM tuner in my PC. Is anyone seeing problems using a Motorola box?

I'm watching the Yankees v. Redsox on Fox-HD (WSYT) broadcast from Syracuse via TWC-Ithaca. I'm still seeing the jittery display, but it appears to be only from the center field cam view.

Same thing here... something funny looking via the center field camera. I watched the Yankee/Sox game last night on YES and there was no stutter.

Time Warner Cable, Albany, NY with SA 8300HD-DVR connected via HDMI

Same here, center field camera only, it almost looks fake.

TWC, Mid Hudson Valley, SA8300-HDC via HDMI

Same here...the feed from YES was perfect. The only jittery effect seen on Fox is from the centerfield camera. The other views look fine (minus the score).

My cable box is the SA Explorer 8300HDC with DVR.

Not noticing any video problems.

Seems like most of the problems are coming from those using SA boxes. Very annoying “stuttering” noticeable on center field camera. Watching on TWCNYC with SA 8300.

Same here... centerfield, and maybe the first and third base roof cameras are all jittery. Reminds me of how baseball looks when streamed on MLB.TV. Hardly an acceptable condition from a Fox affiliate on TWC.

Bad stuttering on WTTG Fox 5 DC via Comcast.

^ Me too. Noticed this on Titans/Cowboys last night and Yankees/Red Sox today. Sooo annoying!

Anyone contacted cable provider to see what they have to say?

WXIX
Cincinnati
OTA
LG 3510a STB

No jitters no stuttering from any camera...Cubs/Dodgers game...Looks -almost- as good as the Cowboys/Titans game last night...

stuttering Milford PA blue ridge cable during yankees red sox game using explorer 8300

Very annoying “stuttering” noticeable on center field camera. Watching on TWCNYC with SA 8300.

I have a Sammy

I have a Sammy
I know, ;) that's why I listed mine. Very strange that we’re both on TWCNY. I have a SA box giving me the herky-jerky center field camera and you have smooth sailings with a Sammy. I don’t understand.

I know, ;) that's why I listed mine. Very strange that we’re both on TWCNY. I have a SA box giving me the herky-jerky center field camera and you have smooth sailings with a Sammy. I don’t understand.

i know you know - others in this thread dont

Has anyone called to find out about this? I know TWCNY is next to impossible to reach on the weekends, and my local fox affiliate is also closed for the weekend.

It is unacceptable to be watching something that rivals MLB.TV that I run from my computer. I am also using an HDMI cable to connect my SA cable box to TV.

I went foxsports.com and reported a bug and explained what was going on with the stuttering.

I suggest that a few more people do it just so we get their attention.

Go to the very bottom of the front page and click Contact Us link and explain your situation.

Same thing here... something funny looking via the center field camera. I watched the Yankee/Sox game last night on YES and there was no stutter.

Time Warner Cable, Albany, NY with SA 8300HD-DVR connected via HDMI
KSAZ in Gilbert, AZ had the same problem last night. I saw the stuttering using an 8300HD on Cox Cable. Viewing it with a qam tuner on another TV did not have the stuttering.

I was viewing a replay of the Titan/Cowboys game earlier today on NFLHD using the 8300HD and it did not have the stuttering.I've read that Scientific Atlanta / Cisco has issues with Harris NetVX HD encoders. With a 5.1 audio feed at higher bitrates, there are occasional audio dropouts. If the audio is in stereo, the 5.1 bitrate is reduced to really low levels, or there's motion on the screen, there are no audio dropouts. Last I checked, Cisco and Harris are blaming each other for the problem.

Fox recently has switched to Motorola encoders for national OTA distribution. NFL Network might not have any Moto encoders in their pipeline. Could Cisco STB's have issues decoding Moto-encoded signals with lots of green in the picture, or maybe video noise (which is oddly absent in the commercials) and green? Sure, it's possible.

Shoot, so I guess the consensus is that those of us using SA 8300 boxes may have some compatibility issues with FOX. Would our cable companies, or the manufacturers themselves provide us with some kind of firmwire update??

I watched the Yankees/Red Sox game very closely for about an hour this afternoon. There was something very definitely stuttery about the center field camera. Other cameras also exhibited something very peculiar. From a camera behind home plate, on a medium speed pan to the left from the field into the stands during a foul ball there was definitely a jitter, the picture jumped several pixels to the left and then back to where it belonged a couple of times during the shot. I rewound and watched it numerous times at regular speed. Unfortunately I could not discern this disturbance when viewing the scene in slow motion with an SA 8300 DVR. On another camera, in particular the one they used on the batter before he stepped into the box, sometimes the picture jumped left/right or up/down slightly when they were following him. It didn't really look like a high-speed shutter. Is it possible there is some digital image stabilization circuit that might be causing this effect? It is definitely the camera, the graphics keyed on top do not move. I don't think it's likely the cable box, but if I had seen several recent posts calling it into question before watching this afternoon I would have switched to watching OTA just to eliminate the possibility, however why would it be only sports that would exhibit this problem?

stuttering today sox and yanks, charter worcester ma sa 8300 dvr

So let me pose this question, is there anybody here using an SA 8300 box that does NOT notice the stuttering?

First off I am relieved to see this thread only b/c I thought it was a Cablevision thing in NY. Interestingly, I had the stuttering on CV (SA 8300 DVR), but on my OTA antenna, there was no stutter.

Had the problem not only for MLB today but also for Thursday night's preseason football on FOX. I wasn't home last night so did not see the Cowboys game.

WNYW-TV channel 5 in NYC.

Add another to the list that noticed the stuttering on today's game.

WNYW-DT NYC via Cablevision (SA 4250HD)

Here in Tampa I've noticed the stuttering on Fox HD MLB games since the Allstar game. And of course it has carried over into the NFL preseason telecasts. No stuttering during commericials. Stuttering noticeable from various camera angles during the live game telecast. NFL telecasts had no such issues last season. ESPN HD MLB games and NFL preseason on NBC HD are fine. Fox SD feed is stutter free. The HD telecast is unwatchable and completely unacceptable. It's like watching a game on acid, or so I'd think. Not surprised that this seems to be a TWC/Brighthouse issue. I have a direct line to a Tech Supervisor at BH but am honestly tired of the repeated issues with this provider from tiling/microblocking to lack of HD content. May be time to make the switch to Fios.


Bright House Cable Tampa
WTVT
SA 4250 HDC

I got the stutter yesterday(Charter or Newtown, CT) and like everyone else had SA box(8300HDC). I wish I thought yesterday to plug the TV directly to the cable line to see if the stuttering was present over QAM. I know up a couple posts someone mentioned not seeing it with their antenna so I was curious if people were able to avoid seeing it by QAM too? That would pretty much 100% confirm its the box itself that is the problem, although that seems fairly confirmed already.

It kind of sounds like the frames are getting out of order.

I noticed it all last NFL season on some Fox and ESPN games. Actually, I would see it at least a few times during every game I watched. This is via D*.

I have Charter and am using a SA 8300HDC DVR box and am also having this problem with fox (a couple other hd channels, show the stuttering effect but not nearly as frequent as sports on fox). Yesterday while watching the sox/yankees I hooked up a SA 3250HD non dvr box and the problem went away, so it is definetly a issue with the 8300HDC.

Hopefully a there is a fix without having to call Charter, as the stuttering drives me nuts.

I only noticed it on fox broadcasts. baseball now football. The charger game last night on cbs afflilliate did not have this happen. It did however have the same blurring issue i always have with my samsung 4661f. The fox broadcasts don't blur when the action fast or there is flashing lights. My guess is the software some of their cameras have to skipframes so to reduce blurring.
It is a surreal effect ,its better in some ways and distraction in other ways.

Same stutter during Cowboys/Titans.
DFW Charter SA8300 DVR.

I hope this is fixed before the season starts. I switch to OTA feed from the local channel and there was no stutter.

My local cable is clueless and want to replace the box.

The problem occurred in Rochester during the Thursday and Friday football games on Fox. My SA8300HD was set to upconvert 720p to 1080i. It decreased or disappeared when the box was set to stay at 720p. The stuttering stopped completely when viewing in QAM or OTA.

Not seeing anything unusual on WJBK-DT FOX Detroit.

If you are seeing the problem, post the city and call letters of the FOX HD station you are watching, and your provider; OTA, Cable, DBS, Verizon, AT&T.

I have seen this effect only through my Time-Warner Cable SA 8240HDC box on WRAZ-HD, Raleigh, NC.

It only appears during live MLB and NFL broadcasts on Fox within the last month or so.

QAM and OTA appear to be stutter-free.

1080i and 720p resolutions both stutter on Fox when viewed through the cable box.

I feel I MUST ask this question...For everyone that says there is no issues when using OTA...Why on earth don't you watch the OTA in the first place...

No DVR for OTA. Most of those affected are using cable DVRs.

I'll check on the stuttering issue tonight during the Bucs/Dolphins, if still present and I'm sure it will be, I'll switch over to OTA. Brightouse Tampa is "sure" that Cisco is working to resolve the issue, there is no firmware update at this time. A tech supervisor I know trashed SA and talked up the Samsung boxes they are testing, to be released in the next couple months. Per him, the Samsungs are better at correcting errors and overall should have less "problems". We'll see.

I'm having the same issue tonight with Bucs-Dolphins. I've seen it on all recent FOX Sports telecasts. Northern NJ Cablevision with a SA 8300 HD

This had better be fixed soon, it's almost football season

It was happening in tonight's game as well. Switched to OTA, and their HD channel was showing it in SD :(. After switching it back to the cable bax, they showed it in highdef for about 3 minutes before switching to a standard definition feed. I wonder if they are getting complaints.

Gorgeous HD picture and sound OTA...:D

Here in Tampa I've noticed the stuttering on Fox HD MLB games since the Allstar game. And of course it has carried over into the NFL preseason telecasts. No stuttering during commericials. Stuttering noticeable from various camera angles during the live game telecast. NFL telecasts had no such issues last season. ESPN HD MLB games and NFL preseason on NBC HD are fine. Fox SD feed is stutter free. The HD telecast is unwatchable and completely unacceptable. It's like watching a game on acid, or so I'd think. Not surprised that this seems to be a TWC/Brighthouse issue. I have a direct line to a Tech Supervisor at BH but am honestly tired of the repeated issues with this provider from tiling/microblocking to lack of HD content. May be time to make the switch to Fios.


Bright House Cable Tampa
WTVT
SA 4250 HDC

I feel your pain. I've also got a TWC/BH guy on speed-dial because I have so many issues with their service and am desperately waiting for FioS to roll out in my area.

Add another 8300HD to the list of stutterers...however, I've also seen a the broadcast stutter on a CBS HD sports event (can't remember which).

Same here in Cleve, OH. TWC SA8300HD. OTA looks great.

Wow - sad and glad to hear I'm not the only one who sees and is greatly disturbed by the stuttering on Fox!

What the f&#E?????

Totally unacceptable.

Erik Tracy
TWC/ San Diego
SA8300

Wow - sad and glad to hear I'm not the only one who sees and is greatly disturbed by the stuttering on Fox!Shouldn't that be stuttering on SA? The fact that these are apparently the only decoders with the problem would put it in their court. Maybe it's time to tell the cable providers that the sat providers don't have this issue and they're looking better every day.

Shouldn't that be stuttering on SA? The fact that these are apparently the only decoders with the problem would put it in their court. Maybe it's time to tell the cable providers that the sat providers don't have this issue and they're looking better every day.

Hmmm...was not a problem last year....so it isn't the SA....could be the firmware???

Same problem during the FOX football game tonight on Cox Phoenix with a 8300HD but no problem on the other TV with a 3250

Donald :)

I don't see stuttering during Fox commercial breaks on the same channel... I don't see stuttering during an HD baseball game on a different channel during the same time slot...I don't see stuttering on other channels with other programming...I only see stuttering during Fox HD football....hmmmmm.....pattern here????

I have seen this stuttering ONLY on Fox football with 8300HD.
It is also present on SD feed but nowhere else on the whole friggen channel
line-up. WTF is going on?
I will have to see if the issue exists OTA next game.

I don't see stuttering during Fox commercial breaks on the same channel... I don't see stuttering during an HD baseball game on a different channel during the same time slot...I don't see stuttering on other channels with other programming...I only see stuttering during Fox HD football....hmmmmm.....pattern here????Hmmm, seems a most significant part of story was omitted - this only seems to occur on SA STBs. OTA and direct QAM does not have the problem. It also appears to be occurring for some on other feeds such as ESPN. Both of these are sports feeds in 720P, so there is no 2:3 pulldown. It would be interesting to see if any other 60P video on FOX also has this problem.

MPEG encoding is not a strict standard but more of a guideline. ATSC has also had some additions since it's inception such as AFD. FOX has switched from Tandberg to Motorola encoding, and the network encoded feed is passed without re-encode through the affiliates. FOX is now using AFD, and I think its use was added after last years NFL season.

Incompatibility between equipment is nothing new. However, since the issue is pretty much confined to the SA boxes and no other decoder appears to have an issue with theses streams and the problem is occurring on more than one channel, I'd say this points to the problem being the SA boxes.

The cable companies are ultimately responsible for providing properly functioning equipment. They may try to blame the networks for the problem, but when is not occurring on any other means of receiving the same signal it becomes a weak argument. If it was an Apple product, the faithful would just accept it as gospel. I doubt that cable companies have that sort of fanatical following.

Having said this, I think it would be in FOX's best interest to try to identify if there is something in their stream that is causing the incompatibility. It may not be their fault, but viewers will see this issue as being connected with FOX. It would probably be a good idea for viewers to complain to the cable companies and remind them that their competition does not have this problem.

It is also present on SD feed but nowhere else on the whole friggen channel line-up.The FOX SD feed is encoded by the cable company as a down conversion from the station's HD feed.

I've sent an inquiry to San Diego TWC.......and now we shall see what response I get.....

Switched over to OTA after the usual stutter present both on 1080i and 720p. OTA was stutter free. Like I said before, Brighthouse Tampa has said that Cisco doesn't have a firmware update at this time. Will they have it by the start of the reg season? Who knows. I've also emailed Fox and with no detailed resonse back other than that they will look into the problem. It comes down to the cable providers not really caring that a handfull of their customers may switch over to satellite/Fios/Uverse. I just don't see the effort put out on their end to satisfy their existing customers. Just look at the HD content, err lack there of, and the excruciating lapses in adding channels. Fios will be available to me soon and despite the extra cost and the procedure of having to write my HOA to opt out of cable, it looks more and more appealing to make the switch.

I've seen stuttering on via OTA on KTBC (Fox7 Austin, TX) and KWKT (Fox44 Waco, TX) on all live events on Fox for the past 3 weeks (football, baseball). Also the lip synch is always off, too.

Surely it can't be both stations and must be something that Fox is transmitting.

Tried on 2 tuners (1 TV tuner, 1 HD DVR tuner) with the same results.

I got a suprisingly quick reply from San Diego TWC about my inquiry about the stuttering, that it has been noted nation wide(provided the link to this thread), and seems to be predominantly limited to SA8300 series STB:


Dear Mr. Tracy,

Thank you for contacting Time Warner Cable. I will be more than glad to assist you with your request regarding an outage on your area.

According to our system we already have been working on it and the issue will be resolved as soon as possible, I am unable to let you know how long it will take, but I promise you that it will be very soon.

Thank you for your email and help.


Not sure about why they think this is an 'outage' but I'll keep everyone posted if I hear anything more.

Erik

I got a suprisingly quick reply from San Diego TWC about my inquiry about the stuttering, that it has been noted nation wide(provided the link to this thread), and seems to be predominantly limited to SA8300 series STB:



Not sure about why they think this is an 'outage' but I'll keep everyone posted if I hear anything more.

Erik

Sounds like a form reply to me...

Sounds like a form reply to me...

Yup.

I sent a followup just to clarify that I was not reporting an outage but a potential 'product delivery problem' -either at TWC or with the Broadcast providers.

I got another email:


Dear Mr. Tracy,

Thank you for contacting Time Warner Cable Email Support. I apologize for the inconvenience you have experienced. I certainly can assist you with this cable service issue.

After double checking on the system, I have noticed that our technicians are aware of this issue and they are currently working to fix it as soon as possible. We appreciate your ongoing patience and support.

We value you as a customer!

If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to

E-mail us again or contact our Live Chat at the following link:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/CustomerService/chat/chat.ashx

Our Live Chat support is available 24 hours a day, 7 days per week.

Sincerely,
Time Warner Cable Online Customer Service


Looks like a copy and paste reply.....

I see the stutter on Fox MLB games all the time here on WJBK in Detroit through WOW HD cable. I don't have this problem on any other programming of any kind.

We have it hear in Palm Beach County, Florida.

Comcast
Fox Channel 434
SA8300HD

:mad: Please fix this before football really starts.

Still happening here watching the Mets vs. Cubs.

WNYW-DT NY via Cablevision.
SA4250HD

in Chicago watching the Cubs Mets game
WFLD-DT OTA
WFLD-DT RCN Chicago Moto DCT6412 III
all no stutter

I wish I had a SA box to test

Had a Rays vs. Tigers MLB game on FOX HD this afternoon and it made me nauseous to watch!

I get the stuttering while watching any of the preseason football games in HD that have been on Fox this year so far. I have not watched any baseball on Fox. I had no problems watching Fox football last year.

WNYW-DT NY via Cablevision.
SA 8300HD

I'm seeing the same thing on all HD Baseball games on FOX5 San Diego.

Cox San Diego
KSWB
SA 4240HDC

After emailing Bright House Cable in Tampa four times they finally responded back as to if Cisco has been informed of the stuttering issue so that they can work on a firmware update. BH previous responses back neglected to report if they had reported the issue and just offered to swap my boxes out for Pace boxes(awful). They've been testing Samsung boxes for approx 6 months and they still aren't ready for general release.

My name is Janice, an E-Care Customer Support Specialist for Bright House Networks. Thank you for taking the time to write. I have consulted with my supervisor who confirmed that all known issues with any equipment we are issuing to customers is communicated to the manufacturer by our network operations engineers. The difficulties you have experienced on Fox HD are known issues. Should you require any additional assistance on this matter, do not hesitate to email us again or contact us by phone at 1-888-289-8988. JaniceE-Care Customer SupportBright House Networks

It's a waiting game at this point and I'm not confident the issue will be resolved by the kick off of the NFL season. Will be watching OTA until I make the switch to FIOS.

So Cisco writes firmware for SA boxes?

If so, we'll have to wait for them to develop and test a f/w upgrade to be distributed to the various cable providers using SA boxes.

And then we have to wait for our respective cable provider to coordinate/schedule their own roll out of the upgrade.

Geez, I'll be back in diapers before this gets fixed....:(

As I mentioned, I'm seeing it also, via Directv.

So Cisco writes firmware for SA boxes?
Cisco bought SA back in 2005/2006.

Had a Rays vs. Tigers MLB game on FOX HD this afternoon and it made me nauseous to watch!

What provider?
What STB?
FOX HD or FSN HD?

What provider?
What STB?
FOX HD or FSN HD?

This was Fox HD on a Bright House Networks SA8300, just like most everybody else.

Plainly, it's the SA8300 that is the common denominator. Hopefully BH/Cisco can get this figured out quickly or I won't be able to watch any NFC games at home :o

This was Fox HD on a Bright House Networks SA8300, just like most everybody else.

Plainly, it's the SA8300 that is the common denominator. Hopefully BH/Cisco can get this figured out quickly or I won't be able to watch any NFC games at home :o

Mine does it OTA in two Texas markets (Austin, Waco) just using the TV's tuner. No SA8300 in my house...whatever that is.

It may be true that most of the posters have the SA 8300, but I think it's safe to say that other SA boxes are effected. Again, I have two SA 4250HDC's.

Well, this thread isn't headed where I thought it was. Up until now I was under the impression that the problem was with how Fox is broadcasting it's live sporting events and the way the signal is being decoded by SA HD cable boxes.

But now we have a few posters saying they see the problem with OTA and also with a dish decoder. Is it possible that some posters are confusing two different problems? Some might think that 'motion blur' common in LCD screens without 120K smooth motion processing may be the same as what other people are calling stuttering.

So, I ask that anyone who said they were having a problem over OTA or dish or some other method that does not involve an SA cable decoder box while watching Fox sports to please see if your set has 120K smooth motion processing. If not, you probably have a totally different problem then what others are reporting here as 'stuttering'.

So, I ask that anyone who said they were having a problem over OTA or dish or some other method that does not involve an SA cable decoder box while watching Fox sports to please see if your set has 120K smooth motion processing. If not, you probably have a totally different problem then what others are reporting here as 'stuttering'.

720p Plasma -- stuttering that didn't exist last year
720p DLP Projector -- stutter that didn't exist last year

...both using the same OTA tuner device / antenna / signal strength, etc. as last year. Fox had to have changed something.

I've also notice the lip sync is off when they show the broadcasters. CBS was fine, so it can't be my settings.

720p Plasma -- stuttering that didn't exist last year
720p DLP Projector -- stutter that didn't exist last year

...both using the same OTA tuner device / antenna / signal strength, etc. as last year. Fox had to have changed something.

I've also notice the lip sync is off when they show the broadcasters. CBS was fine, so it can't be my settings.

Who makes the OTA tuner that you are using? Others have already noted that when they have the problem with their SA box, they switch over to OTA and the problem goes away.

720p Plasma -- stuttering that didn't exist last year
720p DLP Projector -- stutter that didn't exist last year

...both using the same OTA tuner device / antenna / signal strength, etc. as last year. Fox had to have changed something.

I've also notice the lip sync is off when they show the broadcasters. CBS was fine, so it can't be my settings.

Who makes the OTA tuner that you are using? Others have already noted that when they have the problem with their SA box, they switch over to OTA and the problem goes away.

One is the tuner built into the Vizio 42" Plasma TV, the other is a Dish Network DTVPal HD DVR. I guess I need to check my Hauppage card in one PC and my DvICO card hooked up to the other next time live sports are on Fox.

Well, this thread isn't headed where I thought it was. Up until now I was under the impression that the problem was with how Fox is broadcasting it's live sporting events and the way the signal is being decoded by SA HD cable boxes.

But now we have a few posters saying they see the problem with OTA and also with a dish decoder. Is it possible that some posters are confusing two different problems? Some might think that 'motion blur' common in LCD screens without 120K smooth motion processing may be the same as what other people are calling stuttering.

So, I ask that anyone who said they were having a problem over OTA or dish or some other method that does not involve an SA cable decoder box while watching Fox sports to please see if your set has 120K smooth motion processing. If not, you probably have a totally different problem then what others are reporting here as 'stuttering'.I am using a 58" Samsung plasma and can report that the stuttering problem is very evident on WXXA over TWC Albany, NY with my SA 8300 DVR but NOT there when clear QAM is decoded with the internal tuner or OTA.

I have not noticed the issue; however, I have not watched any of the preseason NFL games on Fox to any length. However, it is entirely possible that there are indeed 2 separate issues:

1. SA-8300HD boxes...and later models have a host of issues, which could be part of the problem

2. Fox recently "updated" their "Splicer" technology that is used to transmit their network signal to affiliates.

There are simply too many posts for this to be an isolated problem, so I'm betting that Fox's link to their affiliates is the obvious issue. At the same time, it could also be causing an additional issue with the SA boxes.

I suggest that you e-mail or call your local Fox affiliate and speak directly with the chief engineer. If Fox gets enough negative feedback, they'll find the issue. On the other hand, SA/Cisco is as slow as molasses on a cold Vermont morning.

I have not see the issue on OTA or with my Moto DVRs on Comcast, or the the MITS QAM tuner for that matter. I do also have a Dish DTVPal DVR, so I will check that on the next Chicago area broadcast and see if the stutter is visible on the setup.

As I posted earlier in the thread, I've seen the stutter on Fox HD MLB on WJBK (not FSN Detroit) in metro Detroit through WOW HD cable, and yes, I have the SA 8300 box.

I just want to re-iterate/clarify that I don't have this problem on any other program on any other station (I haven't watched other sports on Fox, so it's possible it's on other sports programming from Fox - I'll check it out). So it "seems" like a Fox Sports issue to me and not the cable company, and not the box. However, I'll keep an open, objective mind, and still consider that it could be a problem with the unique combination of Fox Sports and the SA 8300.

Not sure how it wouldn't be an issue with the SA box decoding the signal from Fox when the commonality is the SA box, DTV/Diash/FIOS not having issues. The majority of the posts have stated that when they switch over from using their SA to OTA or QAM there is no stuttering. For me, the stuttering has been present for each of the 3 preseason NFL games on Fox as well as on Saturday MLB telecasts since mid-July. I use the SA 4250HDC and switch over to OTA when I'm watching Fox sports and that takes care of issue.

If this was an issue with Fox's "Splicer" technology then why is it just the games being effected and not other programming?

If this was an issue with Fox's "Splicer" technology then why is it just the games being effected and not other programming?

Most other Fox HD programming is 24 fps film or HD video. If you aren't having similar issues with ABC or ESPN, then it's something in the "Splicer" technology. OTOH: You may also be correct in that there could be some anomalie in the Fox signal that is affecting the signal processing software/firmware in the SA boxes.

We've got an rng-200 DVR and a SA-4250HDC. I have watched Astros games on Fox Sports Net/Houston (also 720, but no Splicer), and it looks just fine. Also, no issues with ABC, except the local O&O is carrying the ABC required subchannel, Living Well in 720/HD...which really affects the quality of their main channel. Two 720 HD streams, plus an SD weather subchannel cannot live well together.

I will record the Bears Game on Fox tonight. If someone cares to post where they are seeing the issue, I can check on the recording and post.

For example ... in the 2nd quarter, at 2:41 left after the snap you will see the stutter. (or similar) Since I am recording this in my wife's TV area, I will need to check the recording on sometime on Friday. (She rules this area at night!)

The stuttering is a fairly constant thing during a Fox football game. I don't notice it so much when the camera zooms in on a specific player for a closeup, but when the camera zooms out to show both teams at the line for the snap, the stuttering happens about every 3 seconds constantly on that camera until the play is over and they zoom back in for a closeup again.
I think I saw a post from someone who said about the same for the baseball games, that it appeared that the camera that showed the whole field at once is where they noticed the stuttering effect.

I will record the Bears Game on Fox tonight.

Since it's only being shown locally, your result are going to vary.

Since it's only being shown locally, your result are going to vary.

Correct. This seemed to be a local pre-season production, not FOX Sports. For the record, great video, no stutter. Audio was 2.0, nothing special.

I will check some of the Fox feeds over the weekend.

ESPNHD is 720i like FoxHD, right?

I was watching the Oregon vs Boise College football game last night (Thursday, Sept 3) and the picture was stable, smooth, and looked quite good.

It has to be some combination of something Fox is doing and the SA8300 boxes(maybe), cuz I didn't see any stuttering on ESPNHD.

Erik Tracy
San Diego TWC
SA8300HDC

ESPNHD is 720i like FoxHD, right?

FOX and ESPN are both 720p.

OK, I'm watching my first Fox baseball game. To me it's different than the football stuttering. I only see a problem with the camera that is in the outfield and is showing the pitcher, the batter and the catcher all at the same time. The thing is that it is not really stuttering like in the football game. It's more of a slow motion shot. The pitcher winds up and throws the ball to the batter/catcher, and the whole thing just seems like it's slowed down, all at an even pace. It's really strange.

Any news on this problem? Opening weekend for football tomorrow. Will some of us have to put up with this? It makes me sick if I watch it like that for long periods.

Stutter effect still happening.

Mets vs Phillies
WNYW-DT NY via Cablevision
SA 4250HD

What are the odds this problem is resolved in less than 20 hours?

Stutter effect still happening.

Mets vs Phillies
WNYW-DT NY via Cablevision
SA 4250HD

What are the odds this problem is resolved in less than 20 hours?

Same problem with me.

My only suggestion is if you have a cheap set of rabbit ears or a bowtie antenna, see if you can get WNYW, they have a pretty stong signal.
The stutter effect does not happen OTA.

The stuttering looks way worse today, its on all cameras.

I have 2 HDTV's. One has the SA4250, the other SA4200
The stuttering happens on my SA4250 with HDMI
But on my other TV with the SA4200 with DVI, the stuttering does not occur.

Same problem with me.

My only suggestion is if you have a cheap set of rabbit ears or a bowtie antenna, see if you can get WNYW, they have a pretty stong signal.
The stutter effect does not happen OTA.

Also forgot you could just plug the cable directly into the TV and watch it on 5.1 clear qam. The stuttering seems to occur through the STB.

I have a SA 8300 HD DVR box from Time Warner Cable in the Raleigh area and am noticing the stutter effect on live Fox sports as well. First noticed it this summer on the center field cam from the baseball games. Now it appears to be on all cameras except for extreme closeups of players. I have not noticed it prior to this year in NFL broadcasts, but the preseason games showed this stutter effect as well. I have not seen this effect on any other channel whether the source is 720p or 1080i. It basically makes the broadcast unwatchable. Might have to break out the OTA antenna.

Stutter effect still happening.

Mets vs Phillies
WNYW-DT NY via Cablevision
SA 4250HD

What are the odds this problem is resolved in less than 20 hours?

I'd say zero. I also predict by this time tomorrow, this thread will have doubled in size.

I'm still seeing this in the Austin, TX area (KTBC Fox7) on my Vizio VP42 tuner. It is almost as if the framerate is lower (15-20 fps). When I tried it on my Hauppage HTPC tuner and my Dish Network DTVPal DVR (HD) I don't see the effect.

I'm only using OTA, so I wonder if the Vizio tuner has some components in common with the cable boxes everyone here is mentioning.

Noticed the same thing at my brother's place with his TWC HD DVR (don't remember model). Clear QAM straight to his Sony TV was fine.

Almost sounds like an excuse for me to upgrade my TV or watch less sports :)

Seeing it right now on WJBK Detroit on an SA8300 via Rogers Cable in Ottawa (too far for them to bring in a more "local" station like WNYF or WFFF).

Seeing it right now on WJBK Detroit on an SA8300 via Rogers Cable in Ottawa (too far for them to bring in a more "local" station like WNYF or WFFF).

Someone had asked if the stutter was affecting DTVPal DVR. I record Fox News Sunday every week, and have not seen the stutter... I will record the Noon Football game, and see if it shows up there. So far it seems mostly Cisco/SA boxes are having the most issues. All of my clear QAM on other sets seems not to have any issue.

I'm only using OTA, so I wonder if the Vizio tuner has some components in common with the cable boxes everyone here is mentioning.From earlier in this topic, there are a number of OTA viewers that have reported seeing this issue.

To the best of my knowledge, at this time there is no answer as to why this is happening or what the common link is between the different hardware affected.

Well the stuttering is happening during the Fox pregame show. Looks like this is going to be an issue for some time to come.

WWCP, Johnstown PA
Comcast
SA 8300

Fox pre-game studder here in NE Ohio. TWC, SA-8300HD and 4250HD. OTA looks fine. Very apparent on the ticker.

Fox pre-game studder here in NE Ohio. TWC, SA-8300HD and 4250HD. OTA looks fine. Very apparent on the ticker.


same here southern MA, SD Wide screen, the ticker, this is just unbelievably horrible, worse than last year.

WFXT Fox 25 (Boston)
Comcast (Plymouth)

The Eagles (not Eagles but Browns) game looks like crap in Rochester. Looks like I'll be watching the Jets.

TWC
WUHF
SA 8300

Eagles/Panthers game nearly unwatchable due to stutter.

TWC
WPFO
SA 8300

To the best of my knowledge, at this time there is no answer as to why this is happening or what the common link is between the different hardware affected.
We know that FOX changed from Tandberg to Motorola encoders. We also know that FOX has implemented additional metadata such as AFD. The reports of stutters appears to be limited to SA STBs and to certain internal tuners of sets such as Vizio. The majority seem to resolve the issue with a direct QAM connection to the set.

As the old saying goes, it takes two to tango. One could make a case for the issue being FOX's stream or the SA STBs and Vizio tuners. In my opinion while FOX may be sending a compliant MPEG stream, they should attempt to identify the issue. While firmware in STBs could be updated, built in tuners are another issue. Most viewers are likely to associate the problem with FOX rather than the decoding hardware. I suspect FOX is already looking into this issue.

TWC, Hudson Valley, NY
SA 8300 HDC
WNYW Fox - Cowboys at Bucs

Stuttering badly...pretty unwatchable

Had someone here from TWC in Rochester when the game started at 1 today. He had been here for an hour trying to dianose the problem. When the game started at 1 and I could show him what was wrong he said: "This is definitely not a known issue. I will report it." How can it not be a known issue?

Browns/Vikings game stuttering on my SA 4240HDC, but it looks a lot better when I bypass my STB and use the QAM tuner on my HDTV.

Cox San Diego
KSWB (FOX5)
SA 4240HDC
Samsung LN-T3253H

Lots of stuttering here on the game as well. Close ups look really nice , cameramen seem to be doing a good job handling a very bright sunlight so the contrast looks nice, colors look good but the stuttering is there.

Oh

Browns/Vikes WFXT Boston Comcast Plymouth

Browns vs Vikings is pretty bad:
* stuttering
* picture contrast way up
* picture not even close to being sharp or crisp on field shots

I can't watch it....

Erik Tracy
San Diego TWC
SA8300HDC via HDMI
Fox5HD Channel 705

Wow. FOX NFL games look horrible in HD today. At first I thought it was just my local affiliate but then even when CBS showed highlights from the FOX game, the highlights looked terrible and blurry.

Same issue with the Eagles game on WTIC in Colchester, CT...very annoying!
SA 8300HD

Edit: Some audio drop-outs here too.

Has anyone else tried bypassing the STB?

We know that FOX changed from Tandberg to Motorola encoders. We also know that FOX has implemented additional metadata such as AFD. The reports of stutters appears to be limited to SA STBs and to certain internal tuners of sets such as Vizio. The majority seem to resolve the issue with a direct QAM connection to the set.

As the old saying goes, it takes two to tango. One could make a case for the issue being FOX's stream or the SA STBs and Vizio tuners. In my opinion while FOX may be sending a compliant MPEG stream, they should attempt to identify the issue. While firmware in STBs could be updated, built in tuners are another issue. Most viewers are likely to associate the problem with FOX rather than the decoding hardware. I suspect FOX is already looking into this issue.

Well put.

Still stuttering here in Gilbert, AZ on all Fox sporting events.

SA8300HD
KSAZ - Fox Phoenix
Cox Cable

Saratoga Springs, NY. I have one SA 8300HD and one SA 8300HDC. The stuttering on all Fox live sports events is horrible. The current Dallas/Tampa Bay game is unwatchable, as have been all previous MLB games. I'm a big Giants fan, so if it their game is unwatchable at 4pm, I'm going to be very very angry.

I don't have a QAM tuner in my Samsung DLP, so I can't just move the cable line. Don't have an OTA antenna either since I have a lot of very high trees around my house.

I've switched to the Chiefs vs Ravens on CBS where I get my 'usual' macroblocking on motion closeups.

I'd rather put up with that than the stuttering.

HD is not living up to the potential I expect and pay for.....:mad:

Someone had asked if the stutter was affecting DTVPal DVR. I record Fox News Sunday every week, and have not seen the stutter... I will record the Noon Football game, and see if it shows up there. So far it seems mostly Cisco/SA boxes are having the most issues. All of my clear QAM on other sets seems not to have any issue.

I can confirm - no stuttering on the DTVPal DVR.

Stuttering is happening pretty badly for me during the Panthers/Eagles game.
seems to be some brief sporadic audio dropouts also.
Comcast Charleston, SC fox-WTAT Scientific Atlanta 8300HD

I'm wondering if it's even worth calling Time Warner. Every time I call for an issue, the CSR has no idea about anything and they want to send someone out to my house when there's obviously nothing wrong on my end. Anybody have any tips to call and complain?

I'm wondering if it's even worth calling Time Warner. Every time I call for an issue, the CSR has no idea about anything and they want to send someone out to my house when there's obviously nothing wrong on my end. Anybody have any tips to call and complain?

I sent an email (see one of my posts in this thread) to TWC and they 'acknolwedged' the issue, but nothing definite on a fix or time frame.

Of course, I could have also received a standardized 'copy and paste' reply just to brush the problem aside.

I've sent a followup to San Diego TWC......standby....

Comcast
FOX WFFFD
Grantham, NH
Eagles/Panthers
SA 4250HDC

Miserable choppiness. :(

I can confirm - no stuttering on the DTVPal DVR.

What would be really interesting, is if someone in another TV market with the DTVPal DVR saw the issue.

Woodbridge VA
WTTG Fox 5
Comcast SA 8300

Stutter happening on TB/DAL game. So pissed.

WTTG-DC (via Comcast of Arlington/Alexandria)
SA8300HD (outputting at 720p over HDMI)

How many people have actually reported the problem to their HD provider or to Fox?

Can anyone confirm or post replies they are getting that the problem is at least acknowledged and is being worked?

Yonkers, NY
Optimum IO
SA Explorer 4250HD HDMI

TB/Dal - Stutter problem

Check this out.

I'm seeing the studder as each team breaks the huddle and lines up for every play. Easily noticeable when a WR goes in motion. Once they snap the ball the image immediately becomes smooth full motion.

Some sort of selective compression going on here?

Why do we allow Fox to continue to produce such a sub standard product....

KMSP-HD
Minneapoils MN
Comcast HD
Problem appears on both HDDVR scientific Atlanta 8300 HD) and regular SA HD receiver.

Can't even watch football or baseball it hurts my eyes so bad. This is complete crap from FOX. Off to watch CBS.

Cowboys/TB
Manassas Va
WTTG Fox 5
Comcast SA 8300

I can confirm - no stuttering on the DTVPal DVR.

What would be really interesting, is if someone in another TV market with the DTVPal DVR saw the issue.

None in the Austin, TX area either with the DTVPal DVR. It was really easy to tell if was going to be a problem by watching the ticker at the bottom of the screen during the pre-game. So far, my Vizio tuner is the only one having problems using an OTA signal.

During the TB / Dallas game Fox is having problems with their replays freezing, but the live feed looks fine (sans my Vizio TV tuner)

Why do we allow Fox to continue to produce such a sub standard product.The problem is that most decoders do not have this problem with FOX's stream. OTH one needs to ensure that their stream is as compatible as possible. If FOX has information on what is aggravating these decoders I hope they keep us updated here.

I was going to add the new splicers as a variable but it sounds like this issue was occurring before its widespread implementation.

How many people have actually reported the problem to their HD provider or to Fox?

Can anyone confirm or post replies they are getting that the problem is at least acknowledged and is being worked?

I just left feedback at msn(dot)foxsports(dot)com(slash)feedback

I've left feedback on the FOX site. No stuttering OTA (WTTG-DT) with a Samsung DTB-H260F.

I just left feedback on the Fox Sports site as well and also emailed Time Warner.

I've switched to the Chiefs vs Ravens on CBS where I get my 'usual' macroblocking on motion closeups.

I'd rather put up with that than the stuttering.

HD is not living up to the potential I expect and pay for.....:mad:

You don't have to pay for it...Just go OTA...;)

FOX looks great as does CBS...No stuttering on FOX Viking/Browns game at all...

OTA
Dayton, OH
WRGT-DT

Called the local Fox Engineer here in Charlotte and he is at the game and the picture and sound quality is bad in HD via TWC and the game is bad for the Panther's.

Here's the reply I got to an email I sent today to SD TWC.


Dear Mr. Tracy,

Thank you for contacting Time Warner Cable Email Support. I will be more
than glad to assist you today. I really apologize for the inconvenience you are experiencing with FOX.

I completely understand your frustration and that you enjoy watching the
Sunday games. I am really sorry to tell you that we do not have the exact time frame. However, I assure you that our technicians are working to fix it as soon as possible.

We value you as a customer!

Here's the reply I got to an email I sent today to SD TWC.

Here's the reply I just got. Sigh.

Dear Mr. Banks,

Thank you for contacting Time Warner Cable Email Support.

I understand that you are not able to view the games on FOX HD as the video is quality is not fine
on all 3 cable boxes of yours.

I apologize for the inconvenience caused, I can certainly understand your concern.

I will be glad to assist you.

I have refreshed the signals from our end. This should resolve the issue. In case it does not,
please reset your cable box.

To reset your digital receiver, unplug the power supply from the back of the receiver for at least
30 seconds. This will force the receiver to reset. If this does not resolve your issue, please let
us know and we will schedule a service call for you.

Reset the box?

Classic.

Sounds like the Sunday stuckey at your TWC office is using the standard 'fix'.

I left a comment on the FOX website as well.

I'll post the reply, if I get any.....

Reset the box?

Classic.

Sounds like the Sunday stuckey at your TWC office is using the standard 'fix'.

I left a comment on the FOX website as well.

I'll post the reply, if I get any.....

I emailed back and it wasn't very pleasant. I'm debating switching to Direct TV because of this and all the problems I've had with Time Warner with "Channel Not Available" on SDV channels.

Wow.

I just watched the Cowboys/Bucs game here in Orlando, FL and there wasn't so much stutter.

But now the Redskins/Giants is totally unwatchable.

It's impossible.

WOFL HD, channel 1135, Brighthouse Network.

But now the Redskins/Giants is totally unwatchable.

It's impossible.


Same here, and I'm in the Giants home market (right outside Albany, NY where they have their training camp).

Ugh, I thought it was just that I had a broken box. But after googling my problem this thread came up. The Giant's game (albeit blurry at 720p) its just bugging out my eyes with all the jittering....I may have to become a Jets fan just so I don't have to deal with this...

My 11 year old son walked into the room, sat on the couch, and the first thing out of his mouth was "Wow Dad, the picture is choppy", then he left.

How could Fox NOT know this is a problem?

This is unacceptable.

Here in NoVa.

This really pisses me off.

TWNYC SA8300 FOX 705, Giants Redskins, stuttering noticeable on main camera. Just as in baseball on FOX with the center field camera.


This sucks.


And the PQ from that camera blows too.

Gys...The Skins/Giants game is beautiful!!! Why spend money month after month when it is unneccessary??? Switch to OTA and be done with it...You will not get a better or even equal quality of picture from any other source...Read my signature line...

Another option is connecting your cable to a TV or STB that has a QAM tuner built in and most all new TV's have this built in already...Not available everywhere...but pretty damn close to everywhere...the 4 network broadcasts are FREE from the cable co and you do not need the cable box to get HD on FOX CBS NBC or ABC...

You can write letters all day long...You can complain till youre blue in the face...The ONLY thing the cable co understands is $$$...Start speaking with your dollars and cancel and go OTA or use a QAM tuner to see if that helps...

My 11 year old son walked into the room, sat on the couch, and the first thing out of his mouth was "Wow Dad, the picture is choppy", then he left.

How could Fox NOT know this is a problem?

The problem is not FOX...

Gys...The Skins/Giants game is beautiful!!! Why spend money month after month when it is unneccessary??? Switch to OTA and be done with it...You will not get a better or even equal quality of picture from any other source...Read my signature line...

Another option is connecting your cable to a TV or STB that has a QAM tuner built in and most all new TV's have this built in already...Not available everywhere...but pretty damn close to everywhere...the 4 network broadcasts are FREE from the cable co and you do not need the cable box to get HD on FOX CBS NBC or ABC...

You can write letters all day long...You can complain till youre blue in the face...The ONLY thing the cable co understands is $$$...Start speaking with your dollars and cancel and go OTA or use a QAM tuner to see if that helps...

I live in an apartment complex that have a contract with my cable operator. I don't have to pay for Basic and Standard service and save $60/month.

It's just a game, but I would never switch.

The problem is not FOX...

I don't follow you.

I have the same provider, same equipment, problem did not exist last year, Fox changes equipment upstream and now I have a problem.

Ok, maybe Fox 'introduced' or 'uncovered' the problem as a combination of whatever equipment they changed to and certain STB boxes, but others have reported seeing this 'anamoly' on OTA.

Not sure how it can be definitively said that Fox does not share in the problem...no other network has the problem.

Main setup = Pioneer Elite 111FD w/ SA8300 (cablevision) through Denon4306 receiver.
Bedroom Setup = Panasonic 50-THPX60U w/ TiVo HD(Wife required it).

Just noticed there is no jitter with the TiVo. I don't usually watch TV in the bedroom but turned it on last night and noticed however that I don't get any of the extra HBO and Starz channels. Just HBOHD. I wonder if there is some weird limitation on the TiVo. Either way I guess there are sacrifices. If the TiVo let me receive all the channels I'd order a TiVo HD XL tomorrow.

I don't follow you.

I have the same provider, same equipment, problem did not exist last year, Fox changes equipment upstream and now I have a problem.

Ok, maybe Fox 'introduced' or 'uncovered' the problem as a combination of whatever equipment they changed to and certain STB boxed, but others have reported seeing this 'anamoly' on OTA.

Not sure how it can be definitively said that Fox does not share in the problem...no other network has the problem. Agree, and as stated earlier in this thread, it’s been annoyingly conspicuous in their baseball coverage this summer too.

I don't follow you.

I have the same provider, same equipment, problem did not exist last year, Fox changes equipment upstream and now I have a problem.

Ok, maybe Fox 'introduced' or 'uncovered' the problem as a combination of whatever equipment they changed to and certain STB boxed, but others have reported seeing this 'anamoly' on OTA.

Not sure how it can be definitively said that Fox does not share in the problem...no other network has the problem.

I think Fox, Scientific Atlanta, and the cable providers are all responsible here. Fox needs to ensure their signal works with cable boxes. The cable provider is who rents these boxes and ultimately is responsible to the customer for providing a quality product. They all need to get their act together

I live in an apartment complex that have a contract with my cable operator. I don't have to pay for Basic and Standard service and save $60/month.

It's just a game, but I would never switch.

Never switch what??? Are experiencing issues using basic cable and your TV tuner??? Do you have a QAM tuner built in so you can get HD channels without a cable box???

I don't follow you.

I have the same provider, same equipment, problem did not exist last year, Fox changes equipment upstream and now I have a problem.

Ok, maybe Fox 'introduced' or 'uncovered' the problem as a combination of whatever equipment they changed to and certain STB boxed, but others have reported seeing this 'anamoly' on OTA.

Not sure how it can be definitively said that Fox does not share in the problem...no other network has the problem.

No reports that I have seen have reported this in OTA...I have FOX on 2 different channels from 2 different cities OTA and there is no issue at all...This puts the ball in the cable companies court...FOX is not the problem...They upgraded their equipment to fix/resolve/eliminate/prevent problems...They have done their part...Now it is up to the cable companies to step up to the plate...

Gys...The Skins/Giants game is beautiful!!! Why spend money month after month when it is unneccessary??? Switch to OTA and be done with it...You will not get a better or even equal quality of picture from any other source...Read my signature line...

Another option is connecting your cable to a TV or STB that has a QAM tuner built in and most all new TV's have this built in already...Not available everywhere...but pretty damn close to everywhere...the 4 network broadcasts are FREE from the cable co and you do not need the cable box to get HD on FOX CBS NBC or ABC...

You can write letters all day long...You can complain till youre blue in the face...The ONLY thing the cable co understands is $$$...Start speaking with your dollars and cancel and go OTA or use a QAM tuner to see if that helps...

Would love to go OTA, but I have a ton of tall trees around and wouldn't be able to get a good signal. Also have a metal roof, so inside antenna's aren't going to work well. Not really welling to put put a big antenna high up on the house just for a couple OTA HD channels.

I think Fox, Scientific Atlanta, and the cable providers are all responsible here. Fox needs to ensure their signal works with cable boxes. The cable provider is who rents these boxes and ultimately is responsible to the customer for providing a quality product. They all need to get their act together

FOX fulfills their obligation to the cable co by providing a signal that is clean and stable...This they have done...Past that it isthe cable co's responsibility to make sure their equipment can reliably and with stability transmit the signal they are receiving from FOX...You buy your service from the cable co not FOX...

Would love to go OTA, but I have a ton of tall trees around and wouldn't be able to get a good signal. Also have a metal roof, so inside antenna's aren't going to work well. Not really welling to put put a big antenna high up on the house just for a couple OTA HD channels.

I too have many tall trees in close vicinity and am 35+ miles from the transmitters...A 10' mast and a couple of low profile antennas later for a grand total of LESS than $100 I get over 45 channels...I get different ball games from different cities...I get different local broadcasts from different cities...Well worth the investment...The digital signals are actually stronger than the old analog signals were...Try it...You'll be pleasently surprised I'm sure...;)

Main setup = Pioneer Elite 111FD w/ SA8300 (cablevision) through Denon4306 receiver.
Bedroom Setup = Panasonic 50-THPX60U w/ TiVo HD(Wife required it).
You got me to get up and check my other displays.

Right now I’m watching the game on Pio Kuro 151. My other displays are Panny G 10s.

All with the stutter, all on SA 8300 TWC.:rolleyes:

I’ve got to get up to my roof (actually get someone) and drop a new line down from that 40-year-old antenna.

Does anyone know if Comcast has any other HD DVRs available other than the Scientific Atlanta ones?

I believe a different box would fix the problem.

No reports that I have seen have reported this in OTA...I have FOX on 2 different channels from 2 different cities OTA and there is no issue at all...This puts the ball in the cable companies court...FOX is not the problem...They upgraded their equipment to fix/resolve/eliminate/prevent problems...They have done their part...Now it is up to the cable companies to step up to the plate...

Earlier posts in this same thread have reported that OTA customers are experiencing the problem:
From earlier in this topic, there are a number of OTA viewers that have reported seeing this issue.

To the best of my knowledge, at this time there is no answer as to why this is happening or what the common link is between the different hardware affected.



FOX fulfills their obligation to the cable co by providing a signal that is clean and stable...This they have done...Past that it isthe cable co's responsibility to make sure their equipment can reliably and with stability transmit the signal they are receiving from FOX...You buy your service from the cable co not FOX...

Fine then. I'll write to FOX's sponsors and tell them I do not watch their ads due to the broadcasts are not viewable because FOX's position is that they were too lazy to do any backwards compatibility and regression testing to ensure their 'upgrades' did not interrupt or change existing service quality.

Whenever my company does an upgrade to their application software baseline, they do full regression testing to make sure existing functionality is not 'broken' - this is called QA.

Passing the buck to the guy downstream is not good engineering.

I didn't catch the 1 pm game, but watching the Skins/Giants game now. I'm noticing less frequent stuttering than previous NFL games but I can still see it rather easily. (MLB was awful yesterday). OTA is perfect.

I emailed Fox Sports a few weeks ago. Never got a response.

WTTG-HD Fox 5 DC
Comcast
SA 8300HD

Edit: just saw the studio shot. Looks awful. Ticker was a mess. Wow.

I am watching the Giants-Skins game in Houston on Comcast cable and notice a stutter when the receiver goes in motion and then then right at the snap, After that picture seems to be okay. I first noticed the stutter on Fox HD broadcasts during the MLB All-Star game and had to change the channel. Since then, have not been able to watch baseball in HD on Fox. Horribly irritating! Sports on other channels look as good as ever, so how could the problem be with the cable company? Watched the Texans-Jets game on CBS HD earlier and the picture was beautiful. Hope they can resolve the problem soon. I'm surprised this has not been a big story in the media.

Gys...The Skins/Giants game is beautiful!!! Why spend money month after month when it is unneccessary??? Switch to OTA and be done with it...You will not get a better or even equal quality of picture from any other source...Read my signature line...



I have been using only OTA for the past 3 years. Fox feed looked great until about 3 months ago when the stuttering (choppiness) started appearing on all Fox live programming (even their Sunday morning show).

This only happens on my 2 year old Vizio TV's tuner and not any of the other 3 tuners in my house.

So, this is not a cable / OTA issue. Fox changed something, sometime in the recent past that some hardware can't handle (including my Vizio's ATSC tuner/decoder). All other network's live programming is fine. Just a Fox issue, just on live programming, just started in the past few months.

Both my local station and the next nearest market Fox channel exhibits the problem (one is UHF, on is VHF).

First responses from Fox:


Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.

If this issue is not resolved to your satisfaction, you may reopen it within the next 7 days.

Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.
--------------
Dear FOXSports.com User,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us regarding content aired on FOX or our affiliates. We will forward your inquiry to the appropriate party as we only manage content for FOXSports.com. We regret that FOXSports.com cannot respond directly to your comments.

Sincerely,

The FOXSports.com Support team


I linked this thread in my original message to Fox.

Does anyone have some video of this effect? Being as I am not effected by it, I would be curious to see exactly the effect being discussed.

Does anyone have some video of this effect? Being as I am not effected by it, I would be curious to see exactly the effect being discussed.

For me, it's almost like every other frame is being dropped. It feels like you're watching stop motion video.

Does anyone have some video of this effect? Being as I am not effected by it, I would be curious to see exactly the effect being discussed.



Just start blinking your eyes super fast while the teams line up and snap the ball, you'll get the idea.:D

Does anyone have some video of this effect? Being as I am not effected by it, I would be curious to see exactly the effect being discussed.

Its like the framerate drops. Its like watching something 60fps drop to 18 fps.

Is anyone really surprised here? Fox is a joke. They are the wannabees of the HD era. Always have been a joke IMO.

The games look horrible whether its football or baseball. I cringe everytime I have to look at sports on this channel. It amazes me whenever I see someone say Fox is great. Great at what?

...and to all of the OTA people sitting comfy and bragging about their OTA signal. Ok we get it. OTA looks good but if you haven't noticed some don't have that option at least not at the present time. Also it seems as though some OTA people have seen this stuttering crap as well. When I first noticed it I had no doubt that this was a Fox issue.

The giant/skins game looked like **** and the niner/cardinal game looks like **** as well. F*** you Fox.

Glad to find this thread! This has been driving me crazy—*but not just on Fox football.

My wife and kids (OK, me too) watch Fox for American Idol and So You Think You Can Dance. We saw this issue ALL of last season—*but JUST during the actual programs. HD commercials run in those slots were fine, but once you got back to the programming—stutter city!

We have seen it on a projector, a rear projection TV, a plasma and, as of today, the new LCD replacing the plasma (we are 2 families under 1 roof-- we aren't THAT TV crazy!). All from Comcast and connected to that pitiful excuse for a DVR, the SA 8300HD (TRULY "Comcastic").

I hope somebody sees this and actually does something about it. The Skins game today (for MANY reasons) was darn near unwatchable!

To add insult to injury.....

Watching the Pregame on NBC (Bears vs Packers) and they were showing highlights from the Fox broadcast of the Vikings vs Browns.

Perfectly smooth - no stutter.

Maybe I can contact NBC to get them to stream a Fox feed to me? :D

To add insult to injury.....

Watching the Pregame on NBC (Bears vs Packers) and they were showing highlights from the Fox broadcast of the Vikings vs Browns.

Perfectly smooth - no stutter.

Maybe I can contact NBC to get them to stream a Fox feed to me? :D

Yeah, I noticed that too.
NBC rebroadcast of highlight clips have zero stuttering effects at all.

Yeah, I noticed that too.
NBC rebroadcast of highlight clips have zero stuttering effects at all.

Fox replays have zero stuttering in their own postgame show!...from what I've seen it is only live shots. Even the replays during the game (when they didn't freeze) were smooth.

Watching Football Night in America on NBC after watching the games on Fox is like first drinking something like prune juice mixed with raw veggies and then switching to a cool refreshing glass of water or a sweet glass of lemonade. Not the best analogy but you get my drift!

Thank goodness for NBC and CBS. Does anyone know what station the superbowl will be on this year?

Earlier posts in this same thread have reported that OTA customers are experiencing the problem:





Fine then. I'll write to FOX's sponsors and tell them I do not watch their ads due to the broadcasts are not viewable because FOX's position is that they were too lazy to do any backwards compatibility and regression testing to ensure their 'upgrades' did not interrupt or change existing service quality.

- this is called QA.

Passing the buck to the guy downstream is not good engineering.


I'm not here to argue with you guys...Obviously just because I haven't heard or read about something doesn't make it not so...

What gets me is your insistance that FOX is the one to be blamed...This crap that Whenever my company does an upgrade to their application software baseline, they do full regression testing to make sure existing functionality is not 'broken' is completely pointless in this matter...ATSC is not backwards compatable...This is called progress...FOX went with better equipment...You do not pay FOX for their programming...You DO PAY the cable company for the FOX programming...Therefore you are blaming FOX for your cable co's incompetency to ensure that their equipment is compatable with FOX...

There is nothing that FOX is doing wrong...Reporting OTA viewers are 99% 'stutter' free whereas reporting cable users are 99% 'stuttering'...Some tuners may not like the way something is transmitted...Is FOX responsible for the 1% of tuners from manufactuers that cut corners (Vizio, and no I am not slamming them) because they stutter??? According to you Erik they are...Well in a court of law they wouldn't be...

Start placing the blame on the cable company that also goes the cheap route when buying tuners and equipment...I know...I was in the CATV industry over 27 years...

Your relentless tirade that this is all on FOX is just unfair...If indeed FOX was at fault then everyone OTA would be having issues also...Well watching 2 different stations that are in 2 different cities with no PQ issues at all tells me FOX is doing their job...It is completely unfair of you to lump every reception problem upon them rather than your source-ie your cable co...

Why doesn't someone record this and post it on youtube then maybe FOX will put the pressure on the cable company to fix this...As for OTA tuners once word gets around what model works and what model doesn't the manufactuers will fix their issues and all will be well with the world...Otherwise you will keep getting angry about paying for something you aren't getting...Again not FOX's fault...
Passing the buck to the guy downstream is not good engineering.Unfortunately thats the way it goes when the guy downstream is at fault...The cable co makes ALOT of money off of retransmission of FOX programming and it is THEIR best interest to make sure they can transmit the FOX signal appropriately and without issues...If you don't understand that I just don't know what else to say to you...

To add insult to injury.....

Watching the Pregame on NBC (Bears vs Packers) and they were showing highlights from the Fox broadcast of the Vikings vs Browns.

Perfectly smooth - no stutter.

Maybe I can contact NBC to get them to stream a Fox feed to me? :D

BINGO!!! This is what I am tring to say to you Erik...FOX is NOT the problem...:)

I don’t understand. AVS is an influential, renowned science forum with many heavy hitting professionals as members. Where’s their analysis? Aren’t there any insiders with some juice to get this resolved, or at least give us some concrete answers? I can’t believe this thread has been kicking around all this time and we’re still at square one with our stuttering heads in a FOX hole.

Don't know if this was brought up before but does the stutter happen with HDMI output, component output, or both?

There is nothing that FOX is doing wrong....Here are the facts:

- FOX implemented a significant change as part of the recent Splicer upgrade at or about the same time viewers started to notice this problem.
- Although cable viewers are primarily affected, there are multiple reports of OTA viewers also seeing the exact same problem; thus it's not a cable problem.

It's clear that whatever FOX did in the Splicer upgrade process has affected their HD product, and it's just as clear they will have to find and remedy this problem.

I also have a Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HDC. I'm having his issue also, noticed it last year with the World Series games, now the Giants game today was whacked. Even with the 120mhz helping me out, it was shaky.

Do I just go back to TWC and get another box?

Ps - When the heck is TWC going to have an HD box that puts the PIP in the darn corners and not where a "standard" TV's corner would be? No one can watch HDTV with a "regular" TV, correct, so fix the darn PIP position! Annoying!!! :rolleyes:

I don’t understand. AVS is an influential, renowned science forum with many heavy hitting professionals as members. Where’s their analysis? Aren’t there any insiders with some juice to get this resolved, or at least give us some concrete answers? I can’t believe this thread has been kicking around all this time and we’re still at square one with our stuttering heads in a FOX hole.From earlier today:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17171573&postcount=169

Only Fox! What a shocker. Is this another experiment leading to failed viewer satisfaction with sports?

Raleigh, NC
3 sets 2 x 8300HD, 1 x 4250.
TWC, Channel 250 WRAZ,
Redskin/Giants game.

Fox, and your advertisers, if you're listening, I stopped watching. This is BS.
Main (Booth) camera. At snap of ball, and on pass plays when following the ball. Happened in run-over into Cards/Niners, and the bug on the post game show.

Seriously, you've got to fix this. The vast majority of the nation has cable, and they're not going to unscrew the connection to bypass the box (or just watch SD) to remedy this.

Don't know if this was brought up before but does the stutter happen with HDMI output, component output, or both?

Mine happens with analog out...meaning what I see on my screen.

antenna --> TV tuner --> Screen = Network Stuttering on Fox :p

(Doesn't happen with my local station when they broadcast HD live)

BINGO!!! This is what I am tring to say to you Erik...FOX is NOT the problem...:)Wrong.

When you see highlights from FOX on NBC, you are seeing the HD video from a different path than what local stations / viewers see.

From earlier today:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17171573&postcount=169

For the tail end of the referenced link, I'm pointing squarely at FOX. Like I said above, people aren't going to screw with their configuration that works for the other 999 channels coming through the feed, including high quality, never failing Football broadcasts by CBS.

We are going to have to agree to disagree here Ken...While I do not doubt that it was a change made by FOX that was the beginning of these issues I don't think FOX should be blamed or held responsible for the cable co's lack of obvious neccessary refinements or the manufactuers that build cheap tuners...

If the issues affected the vast majority of OTA viewers and satellite viewers along with cable viewers then I could easily see FOX needing to do something to rectify it...But based on the percentage of cable complaints VS. OTA/satellite complaints I think it is clear that the issue lies with the cable co's...