Guys, its shopping time and from what I have been reading, your a fool not to go plasma unless you have a very bright room or are a gameaholic.
Thoughts?

Guys, its shopping time and from what I have been reading, your a fool not to go plasma unless you have a very bright room or are a gameaholic.
Thoughts?

I have a 65" LCD (Sharp Aquos LC-65D93U) and I'm going to upgrade it to a Panasonic TC-P65V10.

It is not out yet. But I'm sure is highly superior in every aspect to my LCD TV.

gameaholic? why would you want LCD for gaming? From my understanding Plasma has a faster response time than LCDs so it would be better for gaming. Especially since concole cant display 1080p video games at 120 frames per second so having a 120Hz display wont give a large improvement over 60Hz LCDs in gaming.

Guys, its shopping time and from what I have been reading, your a fool not to go plasma unless you have a very bright room or are a gameaholic.
Thoughts?

I like plasma better, but I can understand why some prefer LCD. Go to a store like best buy and look at the top of the line Samsung LCDs. The ones with local LED back lighting and cost like $3,000 and up. The vividness of the pictures is fantastic. The picture really pops out. Many plasma enthusiasts will claim it only looks that way in a store. If it can look that great in a store, it will look at least as good at home.

The pictures seem artificially enhanced to me, but I have to admit they look fantastic. I prefer the more realistic picture that plasma's seem better at producing.

I think plasma is a better buy for the dollar right now, but I don't think any plasma can produce the images the new top of the line Samsung LCDs do. Including the Kuro's.

gameaholic? why would you want LCD for gaming?

To avoid image burn-in from the stationary images present on many games.

A bright room is a problem for plasmas.

Plasma fans will tell you that burn-in is a thing of the past. My experience is that it is still something to be aware of if you use the set in particular ways.

Example - you leave the set on a particular channel that has set logos or a crawl at the bottom of the screen. Something like ESPN or CNN. Or, you watch mostly SD images, which are 4:3, leaving black bars on the side. These can burn-in over time, if used excessively.

Another situation would be if you have kids that use the set for videos or games. They tend to leave things paused for hours. This can cause Spongebob to be a regular part of your viewing, if you're not careful.

Plasmas tend to do very well with movies, resolving dark shadow detail. If you like the type of film that tends to have lots of dark scenes, this is your technology.

The downside is that the whites generated by plasmas tend to look grey, when compared with LCD. Basically, one technology excels at displaying the darks, the other the bright.

One issue that has always killed plasma for me is the screen glare. I always see myself watching a plasma screen - regardless of how nice and dark the room is. Some of this is the reflective nature of plasma screens, some is me being too easily distracted.

Plasma is cheap right now. You can get a much bigger screen size per dollar spent than with LCD. If price is an important factor, plasma would be hard to ignore.

Bottom line - both technologies offer picture quality that exceeds what any of us have had in our homes before. You cannot go wrong with either decision. One may fit your viewing preferences better than the other, and that is the direction you'll likely be most happy with.

Just went looking at Plasma TV's and on some you can just feel the heat radiating off. The TV I'm replacing is 36" Sony XBR tube. I've never noticed any heat from it...but i would guess they are about the same? Or do Plasma's run hotter?
It matters because the TV is going in the kitchen/hearth room which already gets plenty hot when cooking.

Just went looking at Plasma TV's and on some you can just feel the heat radiating off. The TV I'm replacing is 36" Sony XBR tube. I've never noticed any heat from it...but i would guess they are about the same? Or do Plasma's run hotter?
It matters because the TV is going in the kitchen/hearth room which already gets plenty hot when cooking.

On Sunday mornings, I especially like to fry some bacon on it while watching "Face The Nation". No muss, no fuss.

To avoid image burn-in from the stationary images present on many games.

Not a problem on newer plasmas.

On Sunday mornings, I especially like to fry some bacon on it while watching "Face The Nation". No muss, no fuss.

Why the thread? Sounds like you already have already formed an opinion.

Not a problem on newer plasmas.

i disagree and i own a newer plasma. If you are using proper settings and make sure to gray-bar or stretch most 4:3 content, it's not a problem. If you want to plug it in and go, and refuse to take any precautions, plasma is probably not for you.

I think to say it's not a problem amounts to being able to plug it in and go, which is not true. You don't need to be anal about it, but I have experienced 2.35:1 IR, 4:3 IR, and HUD IR after gaming. That said it was all gone within 5 minutes of normal viewing and even before then it was only noticable on a blank input.

That said, being careful and responsible is a small price to pay, and I wouldn't trade my plasma for anything except a better plasma

i disagree and i own a newer plasma. If you are using proper settings and make sure to gray-bar or stretch most 4:3 content, it's not a problem. If you want to plug it in and go, and refuse to take any precautions, plasma is probably not for you.

I think to say it's not a problem amounts to being able to plug it in and go, which is not true. You don't need to be anal about it, but I have experienced 2.35:1 IR, 4:3 IR, and HUD IR after gaming. That said it was all gone within 5 minutes of normal viewing and even before then it was only noticable on a blank input.

That said, being careful and responsible is a small price to pay, and I wouldn't trade my plasma for anything except a better plasma

I said burn in is not a problem, your talking about temporary image retention.

What make/model do you have? I saw some very faint IR on a Panny 50pe700u (no pixel orbiter and went away very fast) and have yet to see it on my 5010.

I said burn in is not a problem, your talking about temporary image retention.

What make/model do you have? I saw some very faint IR on a Panny 50pe700u (no pixel orbiter and went away very fast) and have yet to see it on my 5010.

I have a 50px80, and i know the difference between burn-in and IR. I'm just trying to say that you still need to view responsibly with a plasma.

As far as burn-in goes, i haven't seen it, but my dad has ruined his pre-kuro pioneer by watching all of his 4:3 without stretching it or using grey bars. he even has the volume and channel displays burnt in to the screen. I know I'm talking about a 4 year old display here, but it is naive to say burn-in is a thing of the past. I guarantee you i could burn in any plasma today with enough letterbox/pillarbox viewing, that's all i'm trying to say.

I have a 50px80, and i know the difference between burn-in and IR. I'm just trying to say that you still need to view responsibly with a plasma.

As far as burn-in goes, i haven't seen it, but my dad has ruined his pre-kuro pioneer by watching all of his 4:3 without stretching it or using grey bars. he even has the volume and channel displays burnt in to the screen. I know I'm talking about a 4 year old display here, but it is naive to say burn-in is a thing of the past. I guarantee you i could burn in any plasma today with enough letterbox/pillarbox viewing, that's all i'm trying to say.

We will have to agree to disagree on burn in, I don't think its and issue anymore(any make/model with an orbiter setting) with anything remotley close to normal viewing/gaming.
With that said, yes we could probably burn one in if we set to torch/vivid and displayed side bars 24/7/365 with no orbiter settings engaged. But it would be quicker to just hit the screen with a hammer and be done with it.:)

Why the thread? Sounds like you already have already formed an opinion.

Just throwing in a little humor, that's all..:D There's alteady been a gazillion posts and threads on this so-called "heat" issue, which is all bunk and moot to the laughable point of making the plasma displays sound like they are flame throwers and Alaskan basement heaters.

The word simple doesn't come to mind when you put LCD and plasma in the same sentence.

And as far as heat goes I think there's more heat coming off of these LCD vs plasma debates than there is heat coming off a plasma. LOL And yes, there's some heat coming off of them for sure.

I never knew why the Hatfields and McCoy's fought but I bet it all started because one of them bought an LCD and the other bought a plasma and one of them made the mistake of saying their TV had better picture quality than the other. :D

The word simple doesn't come to mind when you put LCD and plasma in the same sentence.

And as far as heat goes I think there's more heat coming off of these LCD vs plasma debates than there is heat coming off a plasma. LOL And yes, there's some heat coming off of them for sure.

I never knew why the Hatfields and McCoy's fought but I bet it all started because one of them bought an LCD and the other bought a plasma and one of them made the mistake of saying their TV had better picture quality than the other. :D

K guys, going tomorrow. Going to put a thermometer on my 36 inch Sony tube. Then gonna take the same thermometer to BB and put it on comparable size LCD, PLASMA,LED. No its not scientific, its gee wizz.
I'll report back.

K guys, going tomorrow. Going to put a thermometer on my 36 inch Sony tube. Then gonna take the same thermometer to BB and put it on comparable size LCD, PLASMA,LED. No its not scientific, its gee wizz.
I'll report back.

I'll tell you how to do this properly...think of the TV as similar to a dog. But instead of putting that thermometer up his butt, you find that little vent close to the HDMI input and push that baby in as far as you can get it to go. Look at your watch and wait approx. 2.5 minutes then yank it out as fast as possible. That should accurately tell you what you want to know.

I'll tell you how to do this properly...think of the TV as similar to a dog. But instead of putting that thermometer up his butt, you find that little vent close to the HDMI input and push that baby in as far as you can get it to go. Look at your watch and wait approx. 2.5 minutes then yank it out as fast as possible. That should accurately tell you what you want to know.

K No thermometers in any dogs butt. My dogs are more important than my TV.
K Without any thermometers, the Sony 36" tube is warm but not hot. Way cooler then the Plasmas I've seen. Buy day is Sunday. 4 TV's. New post for that.

K guys, going tomorrow. Going to put a thermometer on my 36 inch Sony tube. Then gonna take the same thermometer to BB and put it on comparable size LCD, PLASMA,LED. No its not scientific, its gee wizz.
I'll report back.

I truly cannot believe we are even going to discuss this again. Sticking a thermometer on these thing will tell you next to nothing. For crying out loud search for the "heat" issue threads around. Simply put through science, 1 watt will put out 3.41btu/h (heat). So if the set uses x watts take and multiply by 3.41 and you will get how much heat is put out. It takes a lot more that a couple hundred watts to make a heater. The difference between the average displays is minute to the point of being no issue or sensible difference in the space. Unreal!!!!

Sorry Flyboy I mean no disrespect to you it just such a silly topic that has been batted around with sound science so much it gets a bit old to see it come up again.

No worrys. Thanks for the info. I had no idea there even were heat threads. As a guy who only uses the forum occasionally, There is SO much information it's almost overload and that makes it hard to know what your looking for sometimes....

Plasma fans will tell you that burn-in is a thing of the past. My experience is that it is still something to be aware of if you use the set in particular ways.

You imply here that you have actually experienced burn-in on a recent plasma set. Is that true?

You imply here that you have actually experienced burn-in on a recent plasma set. Is that true?Two friends with recent generation plasmas have some burn in on their screens from heavy video game playing.

A sports bar near my house is replacing their 2 year old plasmas with LCD as they play sports programming all day long, every day, and have burn-in from the boxes displayed during this type programming.

The restaurant is swapping out sets because they do this every couple of years, not just due to the burn in. They did decide to go with lcd this time around to avoid this, which it should. The manager indicated that with the burn in issues, the old sets have virtually no resale value.

Both these situations are far from the typical use pattern that most people will experience. I personally am not a game junky or a sports nut, so I would not hesitate to buy a plasma for fear of burn in. If your use is extreme, like these two cases, it might be better to look elsewhere - if this would bother you.

Heck, even the game players don't particularly care as it doesn't interfere with the game play. It would bother me.

Aydu lcd technology even warns you about burn in, reality check i have yet to see a modern plasma get burn in, TIR sure but not burn in. Op start with the best a plasma if it doesnt work out for what ever reason then you know to get anywhere near quality on a lcd you need to spend more cash on the lcd then you would on the plasma counterpart. good luck


PS i use my pioneer elite plasma only for gaming long hours of gears / ghwt/series rb2 and no burn in or tir. watch on my ps3 with blu rays and black bars even use the internet on my plasma. ( sometimes fall asleep with static logos.

To avoid image burn-in from the stationary images present on many games.

No worrys. Thanks for the info. I had no idea there even were heat threads. As a guy who only uses the forum occasionally, There is SO much information it's almost overload and that makes it hard to know what your looking for sometimes....

Again I am sorry for the way that came out, I am sure I could have put it very differently than I did. Sometimes silly things like that can get tiresome especially later at night when I posted that. But in all honesty the difference in heat output between either display type is null. Some put out more than others and it goes both ways with newer displays. Either way you go though the heat output is so small it is really not an issue unless you are in a closet or your room has 0 ventilation and is not very large.

Two friends with recent generation plasmas have some burn in on their screens from heavy video game playing.

A sports bar near my house is replacing their 2 year old plasmas with LCD as they play sports programming all day long, every day, and have burn-in from the boxes displayed during this type programming.

The restaurant is swapping out sets because they do this every couple of years, not just due to the burn in. They did decide to go with lcd this time around to avoid this, which it should. The manager indicated that with the burn in issues, the old sets have virtually no resale value.

Both these situations are far from the typical use pattern that most people will experience. I personally am not a game junky or a sports nut, so I would not hesitate to buy a plasma for fear of burn in. If your use is extreme, like these two cases, it might be better to look elsewhere - if this would bother you.

Heck, even the game players don't particularly care as it doesn't interfere with the game play. It would bother me.

Got two friends, huh? What are their names?...Let me guess, "No-Way" & "No-How". Hey, I've got a 100 friends that just told me you're full of last year's Christmas Turkey, and you are just spreading FUD and misinformation regarding plasma video tech.

The Sports Bar I go here on the island has had a 55" plasma display playing sports and all kinds of programming for over 2 years, every day, including Sundays, all day and up to 2:00am...that's over 14 hrs. a day for over 2 straight years. No burn-in, no IR, no huggie buggie monsters, nada, zip, nothing but great PQ.

Got two friends, huh? What are their names?...Let me guess, "No-Way" & "No-How". Hey, I've got a 100 friends that just told me you're full of last year's Christmas Turkey, and you are just spreading FUD and misinformation regarding plasma video tech.

The Sports Bar I go here on the island has had a 55" plasma display playing sports and all kinds of programming for over 2 years, every day, including Sundays, all day and up to 2:00am...that's over 14 hrs. a day for over 2 straight years. No burn-in, no IR, no huggie buggie monsters, nada, zip, nothing but great PQ.Must have cleaner electricity there in Fla.

I've seen your type before on these boards. No amount of detail will satisfy them, as their opinion is set in stone. Feed them detail, they just want scientific studies proving a point, and then contradict those by questioning the methodology used.

As I mentioned, given any range of normal use I would have no concerns owning a plasma set. If use tends to go to the extremes, like I've pointed out that should be something to be considered in going this route.

Sorry if me having a thought, based on my experience, offends you. It is something you'll have to live with.

lcd work great for those built in gps screens in the newer vehicles. Sometimes the sun glare can make them hard to read, so lcd seems best there.

If I was given the choice of plasma for a 10 year lease, vs. an lcd for a 20 year lease...costing the same ammount, I'd rather be happier for the 10 years, then havr another.

Although the newer model plasmas actually outlast the lcds to achieve half brightness. 100,000 hours is a lot of viewing.

I'll stick with lcd for function for information screens that operate in harsh sun conditions. Plasma for viewing high def picture quality content. Lucky for me, I have a plasma, so no risk of not getting one, if the technology dies due to slim profitability.

If I was given the choice of plasma for a 10 year lease, vs. an lcd for a 20 year lease...costing the same ammount, I'd rather be happier for the 10 years, then havr another.

Most people on these boards will be lucky to keep a set for 10 or 20 months let alone years.

I suspect that lifespans for technologies will continue to get shorter and we'll all be trading in our current sets for new ones for the tech upgrade, not because the current sets are worn out.

Same sh!t, same people, different day! :D

Must have cleaner electricity there in Fla.

I've seen your type before on these boards. No amount of detail will satisfy them, as their opinion is set in stone. Feed them detail, they just want scientific studies proving a point, and then contradict those by questioning the methodology used.

As I mentioned, given any range of normal use I would have no concerns owning a plasma set. If use tends to go to the extremes, like I've pointed out that should be something to be considered in going this route.

Sorry if me having a thought, based on my experience, offends you. It is something you'll have to live with.

I'm not surprised you've met "my type" on these boards. Afterall, this IS the Audio Video SCIENCE Forum. We do take note of unbiased scientific reports, studies and papers by professionals that do this sort of thing for a living. Facts are tough things to get around, especially for those people intent on spreading FUD, urban myths and total misinformation for some silly reason/agenda.

I'm not surprised you've met "my type" on these boards. Afterall, this IS the Audio Video SCIENCE Forum. We do take note of unbiased scientific reports, studies and papers by professionals that do this sort of thing for a living. Facts are tough things to get around, especially for those people intent on spreading FUD, urban myths and total misinformation for some silly reason/agenda.
Oh yeah, "your type" also tends to attempt to gain importance by referring to themselves as "we" to try to impress people that they speak for numbers greater than themselves.

Audio and video are by nature subjective. The most variable instrument used to evaluate these is the human being. No degree of mechanical measurement will determine what is pleasing to the eye and ear of each individual.

If you think that plasma sets are the end all, I am pleased for you. I do think that, like technologies of the past, plasma is reaching the end of it's lifespan in consumer products. This eventually happens to all technologies regardless of how good or bad they may be. Time marches on.

Best of luck with your display and any future displays you may own. I hope they last forever; deliver perfect lifelike images; and don't produce vast amounts of heat, vapor trails, or exhibit ir or burn-in.

I will continue to explore different options as they become available in the marketplace and likely purchase what appeals to me. I think there is room in the world for that to occur.

Oh yeah, "your type" also tends to attempt to gain importance by referring to themselves as "we" to try to impress people that they speak for numbers greater than themselves.

Audio and video are by nature subjective. The most variable instrument used to evaluate these is the human being. No degree of mechanical measurement will determine what is pleasing to the eye and ear of each individual.

If you think that plasma sets are the end all, I am pleased for you. I do think that, like technologies of the past, plasma is reaching the end of it's lifespan in consumer products. This eventually happens to all technologies regardless of how good or bad they may be. Time marches on.

Best of luck with your display and any future displays you may own. I hope they last forever; deliver perfect lifelike images; and don't produce vast amounts of heat, vapor trails, or exhibit ir or burn-in.

Spreading FUD and misinformation seems to be your forte. Keep up the good work. But know that people aren't the dupes you thought they were. There has been professional and scientific studies on your urban myths & false info, and you have been proved wrong. "I" not "we" (since you're anxious to psycho-analyze) have been reading these Chicken Little stories regarding plasma video tech's early demise for years, and again & again are proved wrong. All video tech will come to an end at some point in time, but you'd better put some more polish on that crystal ball as your predictions are just another piece of FUD and misinformation.

Aydu so you're saying that "cleaner electricity" ? will affect the outcome of BI or TIR?:confused::rolleyes: lets just stop there.

Must have cleaner electricity there in Fla.

I've seen your type before on these boards. No amount of detail will satisfy them, as their opinion is set in stone. Feed them detail, they just want scientific studies proving a point, and then contradict those by questioning the methodology used.

As I mentioned, given any range of normal use I would have no concerns owning a plasma set. If use tends to go to the extremes, like I've pointed out that should be something to be considered in going this route.

Sorry if me having a thought, based on my experience, offends you. It is something you'll have to live with.


You're right cajieboy and the problem is for those new into display technology will get affected.

i've always said it give me actual proof of a modern plasma screen affected by Burn in.

Spreading FUD and misinformation seems to be your forte. Keep up the good work. But know that people aren't the dupes you thought they were. There has been professional and scientific studies on your urban myths & false info, and you have been proved wrong. "I" not "we" (since you're anxious to psycho-analyze) have been reading these Chicken Little stories regarding plasma video tech's early demise for years, and again & again are proved wrong. All video tech will come to an end at some point in time, but you'd better put some more polish on that crystal ball as your predictions are just another piece of FUD and misinformation.

K No thermometers in any dogs butt. My dogs are more important than my TV.
K Without any thermometers, the Sony 36" tube is warm but not hot. Way cooler then the Plasmas I've seen. Buy day is Sunday. 4 TV's. New post for that.

did you buy something flyboy? i'm curious if you did as im looking for my first hdtv, and will also be replacing my 36" Sony tube.

Do not display a still picture for a long time
This causes the image to remain on the plasma screen
(“Image retention”). This is not considered a malfunction and
is not covered by the warranty.
4 : 3 12 To prevent “Image retention”,
the screen saver is
automatically activated after
a few minutes if no signals
are sent or no operations are
performed. (p. 45)
Typical still images ■ Set up • Channel number and other logos • Image displayed in 4:3 mode • SD Card photo ��• Video game ��• Computer image
Do not place the unit where it’s exposed to sunlight or other
bright light (including reflections).


From the Panasonic user manual for their current sets.

While IR and burn-in are two different things in my mind, apparantly the manufacturer thinks watching 4:3 content, or playing a video game is a danger to their plasmas.

The manufacturer is enough of an authority for me.

The manufacturer is enough of an authority for me.

So covering their ass in the manual is enough 'proof' for you? Stupid logic there. Not arguing about anything else, just pointing out bad reasoning skills.

Yeah, and people swallow D cell batteries all the time, too by your logic.

:rolleyes:

Do not display a still picture for a long time
This causes the image to remain on the plasma screen
(“Image retention”). This is not considered a malfunction and
is not covered by the warranty.
4 : 3 12 To prevent “Image retention”,
the screen saver is
automatically activated after
a few minutes if no signals
are sent or no operations are
performed. (p. 45)
Typical still images ■ Set up • Channel number and other logos • Image displayed in 4:3 mode • SD Card photo ��• Video game ��• Computer image
Do not place the unit where it’s exposed to sunlight or other
bright light (including reflections).


From the Panasonic user manual for their current sets.

While IR and burn-in are two different things in my mind, apparantly the manufacturer thinks watching 4:3 content, or playing a video game is a danger to their plasmas.

The manufacturer is enough of an authority for me.

This is in the latest Samsung LCD 750 series Manual:

"Precautions When Displaying a Still Image
A still image may cause permanent damage to the TV screen
Do not display a still image on the LCD panel for more than 2 hours as it can cause screen image retention. This image
retention is also known as screen burn. To avoid such image retention, reduce the degree of brightness and contrast of the
screen when displaying a still image.
Watching the LCD TV in 4:3 format for a long period of time may leave traces of borders displayed on the
left, right and center of the screen caused by the difference of light emission on the screen. Playing a DVD or
a game console may cause a similar effect to the screen. Damages caused by the above effect are not
covered by the Warranty.
Displaying still images from Video games and PC for longer than a certain period of time may produce partial after-images. To
prevent this effect, reduce the ‘brightness’ and ‘contrast’ when displaying still images."

Ir or burn in is just not a consideration when choosing a flat panel. Move on and good luck looking for next myth/urban legend to try to rip plasmas.:rolleyes:

This is in the latest Samsung LCD 750 series Manual:

"Precautions When Displaying a Still Image
A still image may cause permanent damage to the TV screen
Do not display a still image on the LCD panel for more than 2 hours as it can cause screen image retention. This image
retention is also known as screen burn. To avoid such image retention, reduce the degree of brightness and contrast of the
screen when displaying a still image.
Watching the LCD TV in 4:3 format for a long period of time may leave traces of borders displayed on the
left, right and center of the screen caused by the difference of light emission on the screen. Playing a DVD or
a game console may cause a similar effect to the screen. Damages caused by the above effect are not
covered by the Warranty.
Displaying still images from Video games and PC for longer than a certain period of time may produce partial after-images. To
prevent this effect, reduce the ‘brightness’ and ‘contrast’ when displaying still images."

Ir or burn in is just not a consideration when choosing a flat panel. Move on and good luck looking for next myth to try to rip plasmas.:rolleyes:

There is no such wanring on any Sony LCD. I suspect it is possible to burn an image in the glossy screen or something. LCD dont burn baby.

There is no such wanring on any Sony LCD. I suspect it is possible to burn an image in the glossy screen or something. LCD dont burn baby.

According to Aydu's logic they do.

I'm not trying denigrate the quality of Samsung, just making a point and this was the very first LCD manual I looked at.

According to Aydu's logic they do.

I'm not trying denigrate the quality of Samsung, just making a point and this was the very first LCD manual I looked at.

Again the sony manuals do not provide such warning. And to further enhance LCD inability to burn in. Of all the PC monitor LCD I have had at home work freinds etc(and its more than I can count) I have ne ver ever seen a warning about burning in a screen.

LCD cannot be burned in. Samsung does indeed have that warning. I had an a650 for 3 weeks. I returned it because I hated the set. I can only assume it is something with the glossy screen that can get image burned in the tint.

i'll give you a claping hand for reading the manual,did you know lcd also states the same? regardless if its liabilty issues or a real issue, BOTH LCD AND PLASMA say this in the manual.

Do not display a still picture for a long time
This causes the image to remain on the plasma screen
(“Image retention”). This is not considered a malfunction and
is not covered by the warranty.
4 : 3 12 To prevent “Image retention”,
the screen saver is
automatically activated after
a few minutes if no signals
are sent or no operations are
performed. (p. 45)
Typical still images ■ Set up • Channel number and other logos • Image displayed in 4:3 mode • SD Card photo ��• Video game ��• Computer image
Do not place the unit where it’s exposed to sunlight or other
bright light (including reflections).


From the Panasonic user manual for their current sets.

While IR and burn-in are two different things in my mind, apparantly the manufacturer thinks watching 4:3 content, or playing a video game is a danger to their plasmas.

The manufacturer is enough of an authority for me.

+1 fourty
So covering their ass in the manual is enough 'proof' for you? Stupid logic there. Not arguing about anything else, just pointing out bad reasoning skills.

This is in the latest Samsung LCD 750 series Manual:

"Precautions When Displaying a Still Image
A still image may cause permanent damage to the TV screen
Do not display a still image on the LCD panel for more than 2 hours as it can cause screen image retention. This image
retention is also known as screen burn. To avoid such image retention, reduce the degree of brightness and contrast of the
screen when displaying a still image.
Watching the LCD TV in 4:3 format for a long period of time may leave traces of borders displayed on the
left, right and center of the screen caused by the difference of light emission on the screen. Playing a DVD or
a game console may cause a similar effect to the screen. Damages caused by the above effect are not
covered by the Warranty.
Displaying still images from Video games and PC for longer than a certain period of time may produce partial after-images. To
prevent this effect, reduce the ‘brightness’ and ‘contrast’ when displaying still images."

Ir or burn in is just not a consideration when choosing a flat panel. Move on and good luck looking for next myth/urban legend to try to rip plasmas.:rolleyes:

so you're saying that if i actually waste my time reading a manual i wont find any warnings in regards to lcd and IR/Burn in?

There is no such wanring on any Sony LCD. I suspect it is possible to burn an image in the glossy screen or something. LCD dont burn baby.

Ps for the record i use my ps3 with my plasma to surf the internet like here on avs or engadgethd

Do what I do, large LCD monitor for computer and plasma for everything else. No complaining now this is completely fair. :D

[QUOTE=gus738;16897571
so you're saying that if i actually waste my time reading a manual i wont find any warnings in regards to lcd and IR/Burn in?
[/QUOTE]

No, I was saying you will find it in an LCD manual and I was trying prove a point that it is in both lcd and plasma manuals and not definitive proof that plasmas are highly susceptible to burn in/ir.

No, I was saying you will find it in an LCD manual and I was trying prove a point that it is in both lcd and plasma manuals and not definitive proof that plasmas are highly susceptible to burn in/ir.

The correction here is that you find it in samsung LCD. Not all LCD.

I am very happy with my LCD and after burning 2 plasma and watching my parents burn thiers. Ill take LCD over Plasma every time.

The correction here is that you find it in samsung LCD. Not all LCD.

I am very happy with my LCD and after burning 2 plasma and watching my parents burn thiers. Ill take LCD over Plasma every time.

I WAS MAKING A POINT THE BECAUSE IT REFERENCED IN A MANUAL DOESN'T MEAN IT CAN HAPPEN OR WILL HAPPEN.

I'm very happy that you have found your hdtv nirvana but I find your claims of three plasmas with burn in less than credible. Sounds like yet even more fanboy hyperbole.:rolleyes:

I WAS MAKING A POINT THE BECAUSE IT REFERENCED IN A MANUAL DOESN'T MEAN IT CAN HAPPEN OR WILL HAPPEN.

I'm very happy that you have found your hdtv nirvana but I find your claims of three plasmas with burn in less than credible. Sounds like yet even more fanboy hyperbole.:rolleyes:

I burned a 42 panny plasma in 02 5000 dollars( I knew it was possible I was very careful). Then in 05 I purchased a pioneer elite that was according to the great gods here and the wizards of marketing highly resistant to burn in. 7000 dollars. I was extremely careful. I didnt burn it. I did get lots and lots and lots of IR. My friend has the set now, He burned it.

Against my better judgement I told my parents to buy a pioneer plasma in 06 because of all the plasma "experts" here who said no way it could be burned now. again even newer and yet again unburnable. They burned it.



Maybe todays arent burnable. Im not saying they are. Im saying no Fing way Im taking a chance again. I love to game. I love to pause my set for 30 min while I put the kids to bed and come back when I do.

I love watching a full day of 4:3 tv channel if I need to and not caring.

Im sure you do to...For me if I had a plasma Id do nothing but worry due to my experience. On the other hand LCD isnt nearly so inferior as plasma fanboyz want others to think.

I burned a 42 panny plasma in 02 5000 dollars( I knew it was possible I was very careful). Then in 05 I purchased a pioneer elite that was according to the great gods here and the wizards of marketing highly resistant to burn in. 7000 dollars. I was extremely careful. I burned it.

Against my better judgement I told my parents to buy a pioneer plasma in 06 again even newer and yet again unburnable. They burned it.

Maybe todays arent. Im not saying they are. Im saying no Fing way Im taking a chance again. I love to game. I love to pause my set for 30 min while I put the kids to bed and come back when I do.

I love watching a full day of 4:3 tv channel if I need to and not caring.

Im sure you do to...For me if I had a plasma Id do nothing but worry due to my experience. On the other hand LCD isnt nearly so inferior as plasma fanboyz want others to think.

Again, I'm happy for you, Sony makes a fine product. I never said that lcd was inferior. All I'm trying to say is that is that burn in/ir is not an issue anymore, certainly to the extent that it is made out to be and the people that keep saying this clearly have a agenda. Have a nice evening.

More LCD is wonderful, plasma is the devil crap. Boo Hoo, mike burned his ancient plasma, this isn't 2002, or 2006, technology marches on for most but not all of us. OK we get it, you like LCD, fine. But why go posting in every thread about how your old plasma burned in, we have no idea how you treated it, it crosses some peoples minds that you are the cause of the problem not the technology.

IR exists, we all know that. Some sets have less of a problem with it than others. My Panny X1 has never displayed ANY trace of IR and my dad watches mostly 4:3. But of course it's not in torch mode. I like the image on my LCD, if I'm sitting square on the screen, move and you might as well be watching a misaligned tube set. If that problem was resolved like IR and burn in has been resolved with plasma then I would have no issue with LCD, but as it stands LCDs are a second rate display.

More LCD is wonderful, plasma is the devil crap. Boo Hoo, mike burned his ancient plasma, this isn't 2002, or 2006, technology marches on for most but not all of us. OK we get it, you like LCD, fine. But why go posting in every thread about how your old plasma burned in, we have no idea how you treated it, it crosses some peoples minds that you are the cause of the problem not the technology.

IR exists, we all know that. Some sets have less of a problem with it than others. My Panny X1 has never displayed ANY trace of IR and my dad watches mostly 4:3. But of course it's not in torch mode. I like the image on my LCD, if I'm sitting square on the screen, move and you might as well be watching a misaligned tube set. If that problem was resolved like IR and burn in has been resolved with plasma then I would have no issue with LCD, but as it stands LCDs are a second rate display.

You assume to much.

If some one is being careful and they say they burned in two plasmas they are obviously mentally challenged or a liar.




And they were pointing out flaws in logic not saying that LCDs get burn-in.

If some one is being careful and they say they burned in two plasmas they are obviously mentally challenged or a liar.




And they were pointing out flaws in logic not saying that LCDs get burn-in.

Thank you!

burned a 42 panny plasma in 02 5000 dollars( I knew it was possible I was very careful). Then in 05 I purchased a pioneer elite that was according to the great gods here and the wizards of marketing highly resistant to burn in. 7000 dollars. I was extremely careful. I burned it.

Against my better judgement I told my parents to buy a pioneer plasma in 06 again even newer and yet again unburnable. They burned it.

.

hold up,
you supposedly got burn-in on two straight Plasmas, then you recommend that your parents buy one???
Oh, and that plasma they "burned" just happened to be a Pioneer?

Is this the same 2yr old 46 inch Pioneer plasma that you claimed got burn-in on another thread? I think I remember this because it was pointed out to you that there is no 2 year old 46 inch availible by Pioneer. Then you changed your story about the model and said it was older than 2 years.

also,
Above you stated that you got burn-in on your Pioneer Elite, yet here In this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16355859#post16355859) you state "I then watched my Pioneer elite which did not burn in".
Which is it?

I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but This seems a little strange. No offense.

kagolu I know bro but i was refering to serailmike as he seems to be the fanboy/liar.

No, I was saying you will find it in an LCD manual and I was trying prove a point that it is in both lcd and plasma manuals and not definitive proof that plasmas are highly susceptible to burn in/ir.

How many times have i said MODERN plasma technology not old? 2007 and newer was the time when they really changed

Mike i can prove to you by pausing my Pioneer Elite pro-111 (5k) plasma at the time (2008) using static image and it WONt have even TIR (temporarly image retention). and lcd is POS its inferior its unrealistic it has so many flaws to begin with that it was not meant to be a tv but just a simple moniter to show graph and slides as that is what its best at.



I burned a 42 panny plasma in 02 5000 dollars( I knew it was possible I was very careful). Then in 05 I purchased a pioneer elite that was according to the great gods here and the wizards of marketing highly resistant to burn in. 7000 dollars. I was extremely careful. I burned it.

Against my better judgement I told my parents to buy a pioneer plasma in 06 again even newer and yet again unburnable. They burned it.

Maybe todays arent. Im not saying they are. Im saying no Fing way Im taking a chance again. I love to game. I love to pause my set for 30 min while I put the kids to bed and come back when I do.

I love watching a full day of 4:3 tv channel if I need to and not caring.

Im sure you do to...For me if I had a plasma Id do nothing but worry due to my experience. On the other hand LCD isnt nearly so inferior as plasma fanboyz want others to think.

This is intresting chad.

hold up,
you supposedly got burn-in on two straight Plasmas, then you recommend that your parents buy one???
Oh, and that plasma they "burned" just happened to be a Pioneer?

Is this the same 2yr old 46 inch Pioneer plasma that you claimed got burn-in on another thread? I think I remember this because it was pointed out to you that there is no 2 year old 46 inch availible by Pioneer. Then you changed your story about the model and said it was older than 2 years.

also,
Above you stated that you got burn-in on your Pioneer Elite, yet here In this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16355859#post16355859) you state "I then watched my Pioneer elite which did not burn in".
Which is it?

I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but This seems a little strange. No offense.

I burned a 42 panny plasma in 02 5000 dollars( I knew it was possible I was very careful). Then in 05 I purchased a pioneer elite that was according to the great gods here and the wizards of marketing highly resistant to burn in. 7000 dollars. I was extremely careful. I burned it.

Against my better judgement I told my parents to buy a pioneer plasma in 06 again even newer and yet again unburnable. They burned it.

Maybe todays arent. Im not saying they are. Im saying no Fing way Im taking a chance again. I love to game. I love to pause my set for 30 min while I put the kids to bed and come back when I do.

I love watching a full day of 4:3 tv channel if I need to and not caring.

Im sure you do to...For me if I had a plasma Id do nothing but worry due to my experience. On the other hand LCD isnt nearly so inferior as plasma fanboyz want others to think.

You're working way to hard making an issue out of essentiually a non issue any more.

hold up,
you supposedly got burn-in on two straight Plasmas, then you recommend that your parents buy one???
Oh, and that plasma they "burned" just happened to be a Pioneer?

Is this the same 2yr old 46 inch Pioneer plasma that you claimed got burn-in on another thread? I think I remember this because it was pointed out to you that there is no 2 year old 46 inch availible by Pioneer. Then you changed your story about the model and said it was older than 2 years.

also,
Above you stated that you got burn-in on your Pioneer Elite, yet here In this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16355859#post16355859) you state "I then watched my Pioneer elite which did not burn in".
Which is it?

I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but This seems a little strange. No offense.

Well, well, well...the truth finally shines through! Somebody's pants are on fire. Why am I not surprised??

Sorry there was some loss of concentration as my little one was crying at the time I wrote the post. It has been corrected.

I dont care how many generations you say. Thats the years the sets were bought and they were current line models.

Again I am not saying that current plasma burn. They probably dont. I am saying plasma lost me and I am 100 percent sure many many many others because they beta tested the technology on users to get the burn out. And that made thousands of dollars for each customer into piles of ****.

What I am saying is in this same thread you say plasma is soooooo awesome. YOu guys on these forums act like it has no flaws. It does. You also act as though LCD sucks. It doesnt. It has flaws none NONE of them nearly as bad as what you guys claim.

I burned a 42 panny plasma in 02 5000 dollars( I knew it was possible I was very careful). Then in 05 I purchased a pioneer elite that was according to the great gods here and the wizards of marketing highly resistant to burn in. 7000 dollars. I was extremely careful. My friend has the set now, He burned it.

Against my better judgement I told my parents to buy a pioneer plasma in 06 because of all the plasma "experts" here who said no way it could be burned now. again even newer and yet again unburnable. They burned it.


Wow, you and yours are a rough crowd; or extremely unlucky. I have had my plasma since 2006 and have had no trouble at all with it in regards to burn in (or anything else for that matter). And that is with grandchildren and a wife who is clueless about modern technology vs. old tech. My set is normally on 4-8 hours a day, with a fairly high percentage of it being on cable news, history channel, science channel, sports channels, etc. The rest of the viewing is my wife watching her cable channels; lifetime, bravo, etc. Many of those channels have logos and even then, I have seen no burn-in.

What did you and yours have the tv set to, as far as brightness, contrast, etc.?

Glad to hear you have found something you can live with. As for me, I have both and like both.

Mike

Wow, you and yours are a rough crowd; or extremely unlucky. I have had my plasma since 2006 and have had no trouble at all with it in regards to burn in (or anything else for that matter). And that is with grandchildren and a wife who is clueless about modern technology vs. old tech. My set is normally on 4-8 hours a day, with a fairly high percentage of it being on cable news, history channel, science channel, sports channels, etc. The rest of the viewing is my wife watching her cable channels; lifetime, bravo, etc. Many of those channels have logos and even then, I have seen no burn-in.



What did you and yours have the tv set to, as far as brightness, contrast, etc.?

Glad to hear you have found something you can live with. As for me, I have both and like both.

Mike

I did run the panasonic with high contrast. I didnt know back then that that was a culprit. But I did know that burn in was possible.

The Pioneer was run on standard mode with the contrast 2 notches higher than default most of the time. I have no idea what my friend was running the set at. (thats part of the point in a sense.) Usually when you make a product you cap off the setting adjustments at a point where it does not stress other components. What the hell were they selling plasmas with settings that burn the screen for. Its just not smart. Beta testing is the answer.

Just wanted to say, that this was a pretty informative thread until cajieboy started posting. Sorry to directly point the finger, but your the "type" that make coming to forums an unfriendly and hostile area.

I don't have the most experience with Plasmas/LCDs, or care to do the research of the burn in issue.

All i would recommend to people about the LCD/Plasma is what most people already know and would ask of someone.

Do you watch heavy sports and play games? That is the main question most people ask potential buyers of Plasmas, followed by the typical answer of, If they do those then Plasma might not be for them.

It's simple sound advice. Yeah, sure, Plasma's burn in issue may in fact be over-exaggerated, or maybe it used to have issues but now they are resolved.

The bottom line is though, is people want to know that they can just plug and play without a high chance of burn-in.

Using the above methodology, LCD, will clearly take the cake over Plasma, as it was and has been stated that with "proper" maintanence, Plasmas will work just fine...with proper extra, care. Key word being extra...most people will go for the simplest route.

Also, from what i gather, the "level headed" posters in this thread, have stated that Plasmas excel at dark images and LCDs excel at brighter images, in which case we have a factor of how much better is one over the other? If the difference is neglible, then the choice is obvious: LCD. Why?

You get a VERY damn good picture, without the "extra" worry and work of a Plasma.

Now, don't get me wrong, i don't NOT like Plasma, but i am a heavy gamer myself. I mean i own a PS3, a Wii, and even have my computer hooked up to my TV, so for me, just having that "extra" chance of having a burn in issue, was enough to dissuade me. I mean, we are spending big bucks on TVs, so for me, the one that can give me the best possible picture, for the least amount of money, with the least amount of potential problems, is the TV for me.

In case your wondering, i am also in the market for a TV. I bought my TV February 2008. It was a steal at $1299, it is the Sony KDS-50A3000, in case your wondering. An old TV by today's standards lol, but, im the perfect scenario between the LCD/Plasma debate...

Just wanted to say, that this was a pretty informative thread until cajieboy started posting. Sorry to directly point the finger, but your the "type" that make coming to forums an unfriendly and hostile area.

I don't have the most experience with Plasmas/LCDs, or care to do the research of the burn in issue.

All i would recommend to people about the LCD/Plasma is what most people already know and would ask of someone.

Do you watch heavy sports and play games? That is the main question most people ask potential buyers of Plasmas, followed by the typical answer of, If they do those then Plasma might not be for them.

It's simple sound advice. Yeah, sure, Plasma's burn in issue may in fact be over-exaggerated, or maybe it used to have issues but now they are resolved.

The bottom line is though, is people want to know that they can just plug and play without a high chance of burn-in.

Using the above methodology, LCD, will clearly take the cake over Plasma, as it was and has been stated that with "proper" maintanence, Plasmas will work just fine...with proper extra, care. Key word being extra...most people will go for the simplest route.

Also, from what i gather, the "level headed" posters in this thread, have stated that Plasmas excel at dark images and LCDs excel at brighter images, in which case we have a factor of how much better is one over the other? If the difference is neglible, then the choice is obvious: LCD. Why?

You get a VERY damn good picture, without the "extra" worry and work of a Plasma.

Now, don't get me wrong, i don't NOT like Plasma, but i am a heavy gamer myself. I mean i own a PS3, a Wii, and even have my computer hooked up to my TV, so for me, just having that "extra" chance of having a burn in issue, was enough to dissuade me. I mean, we are spending big bucks on TVs, so for me, the one that can give me the best possible picture, for the least amount of money, with the least amount of potential problems, is the TV for me.

In case your wondering, i am also in the market for a TV. I bought my TV February 2008. It was a steal at $1299, it is the Sony KDS-50A3000, in case your wondering. An old TV by today's standards lol, but, im the perfect scenario between the LCD/Plasma debate...

Sorry you weren't "informed" enough after I posted, but if you call being "informed" by soaking-up false information & general FUD & outright fibs concerning Plasma video tech, then please get "informed all you want. The newbies come on here for facts, not all that misinformation being spread around this thread.

Sorry you weren't "informed" enough after I posted, but if you call being "informed" by soaking-up false information & general FUD & outright fibs concerning Plasma video tech, then please get "informed all you want. The newbies come on here for facts, not all that misinformation being spread around this thread.

Facts and truth seem to be relative here. I would much prefer it that people relate their own experiences and leave it at that; no judgements, opinions, endorsements, or any other unsubstantiated statements of any kind need be added.

Thank you.
Mike

The funny thing is cajieboy, is, they are not spreading "FUD" or "misinformation".

Instead of picking apart other people's posts by simply standing there and typing "oh that is FUD" or whatever "clever" internet-speek flavor of the month phrases you want to use, you could have instead been more insightful, like the real posters here in AVS are known for.

What parts of x person's posts were supposedly "FUD"?
Why is it "FUD" and misinformation?

After explaining that, you should have posted your own reasonings, real reasons/opinions supporting the Plasma side of things, you know, like the real posters in AVS forums do.

Instead, you make yourself look bad and, for lack of a better word, stupid. You come off as condescending, but without any "debate" to back it up at all. Your akin to the school yard little boy who just sits there and points and likes to complain about things, without any research to back up, like "lol, thats FUD and misinformation"

Now, i bet, your retort will be something like "but it has been explained before, thus i will not repeat myself again". You could have posted a link, a constructive post, or at least stayed on topic...

You can say that i'am guilty of the same thing, but, you would be wrong. I simply pointed out that i do not like how you are posting, which we are both off-topic, but right after i gave my view on the whole LCDvPlasma, however limited my actual knowledge is, i gave a view point coming from the "average consumer" and how they would look at the differences..All you contributed was nothing on topic, just pointing and picking apart someones post and opinion with "duh, umm, thats FUD, duh, umm thats misinformation"..

Then, you only add to my own point about you not contributing to the AVSForums like you make yourself out to be, and instead only tarnish the good posters here at AVSForums.

Anywhoo, im done getting off-topic and good luck to everyone who is actually constructive and helping people gather the knowledge and information they need in their HT needs :)

The bottom line is though, is people want to know that they can just plug and play without a high chance of burn-in.

Have you not read from actual owners enough that they have plug and played their plasmas with no issues? Mine's going to be 3 years old and have played it like any other TV since it was new and have had zero issues with any kind of "burn in" and to use the term "high chance" clearly shows you haven't done your homework.



You get a VERY damn good picture, without the "extra" worry and work of a Plasma.

Never have worried once since I bought my plasma, but I sure smile a lot when I sit down to watch a movie or sporting event.



To each his own but it appears you bought into the BS spewed by some on this forum. Enjoy your LCD as I have 2 of them both newer than my plasma and the plasma is still clearly the panel of choice in my house while one of the LCDs has already had an issue and not near the picture of my Pioneer. :)

Let me retort with actual experience rather than just repeating what a salesman might warn you about with Plasma video tech.

I have put all three Kuros I have owned thru the Ringer!!!

I dont worry one bit about burn-in or IR. Not one bit.
There is no "proper maintenance" when it comes to the way I use my plasma.

Before discovering the "no activity off feature" I constantly left static images on my 151 for hours and hours at a time.
I also fell asleep with DVD menus on the screen all the time. sometimes for 10-14 hours.
And many times when I have done this, I will immediatly switch to a blank input to see if there is any IR or burn-in. None. Never is.

I play COD4 and COCwaw like a madman, at least a couple hours everyday and sometimes for 6-8 hours when I go on a gaming beinge.
(PSN=chadmak09 if anyone wants to play sometime), yet I have never even seen IR before. Not one time.

But now there is this thing on new plasmas called "no activity off".
IT basically turns off the set when there is no activity. So static images will never be on the screen for long periods of time, even if you are a forgetful person and forget to turn it off before leaving the house.
So for the paranoid or forgetful owner who worrys about these things, worry no more.

Let me retort with actual experience rather than just repeating what a salesman might warn you about with Plasma video tech.

I have put all three Kuros I have owned thru the Ringer!!!

I dont worry one bit about burn-in or IR. Not one bit.
There is no "proper maintenance" when it comes to the way I use my plasma.

Before discovering the "no activity off feature" I constantly left static images on my 151 for hours and hours at a time.
I also fell asleep with DVD menus on the screen all the time. sometimes for 10-14 hours.
And many times when I have done this, I will immediatly switch to a blank input to see if there is any IR or burn-in. None. Never is.

I play COD4 and COCwaw like a madman, at least a couple hours everyday and sometimes for 6-8 hours when I go on a gaming beinge.
(PSN=chadmak09 if anyone wants to play sometime), yet I have never even seen IR before. Not one time.

But now there is this thing on new plasmas called "no activity off".
IT basically turns off the set when there is no activity. So static images will never be on the screen for long periods of time, even if you are a forgetful person and forget to turn it off before leaving the house.
So for the paranoid or forgetful owner who worrys about these things, worry no more.

Thank you chad :) This is what i was looking for :) Clearly some peeps in here need to learn from you, including myself.

Maxdog03
To each his own but it appears you bought into the BS spewed by some on this forum
It's funny you should say that, because i MYSELF ADMITTED i had a limited understanding of the whole LCDvPlasma debacle..

I also stated i have NO PROBLEMS against Plasmas, but, because of my self-admitted limited understanding of the Plasma Burn in issue, coupled with price at the time of my purchase, I decided to go RPTV at the time, the Sony KDS 50A3000. Please, read what i posted.

sorry if your buddy cajieboy gives out flavor of the month retorts instead of actually staying on topic and helping people better understand and possibly help squash the myth of Plasma burn in. You two need to take a queue from Chad.

hold up,
you supposedly got burn-in on two straight Plasmas, then you recommend that your parents buy one???
Oh, and that plasma they "burned" just happened to be a Pioneer?

Is this the same 2yr old 46 inch Pioneer plasma that you claimed got burn-in on another thread? I think I remember this because it was pointed out to you that there is no 2 year old 46 inch availible by Pioneer. Then you changed your story about the model and said it was older than 2 years.

also,
Above you stated that you got burn-in on your Pioneer Elite, yet here In this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16355859#post16355859) you state "I then watched my Pioneer elite which did not burn in".
Which is it?

I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but This seems a little strange. No offense.

Thanks for the post Chad. I want the 20 minutes of my life back for trying to talk with this guy.:)

Jojo, the way I learned when I first joined this Forum was from others that did exactly as I do. The reason I do it has to do with my idea that you will learn more if you put forth a little effort on your own to actually go do a little Forum searching and Google searching, and research some of these things yourself. These LCD vs Plasma threads have been going on for years w/countless posts. It really isn't that hard to dig a little bit to find the truth to questions you may have on the topic, or any other topic for that matter. All the same, you're right, I could learn something from Chad, and have been doing so for awhile now.

[QUOTE=Jojo29;16902084]

Maxdog03

It's funny you should say that, because i MYSELF ADMITTED i had a limited understanding of the whole LCDvPlasma debacle..

Then you shouldn't make statements like you did in the post I responded to as that's how false information keeps being sent out.

I also stated i have NO PROBLEMS against Plasmas, but, because of my self-admitted limited understanding of the Plasma Burn in issue, coupled with price at the time of my purchase, I decided to go RPTV at the time, the Sony KDS 50A3000. Please, read what i posted.

I read what you posted but your statements that I highlighted made you come across as someone that's made up their mind and passing along false information.

sorry if your buddy cajieboy gives out flavor of the month retorts instead of actually staying on topic and helping people better understand and possibly help squash the myth of Plasma burn in. You two need to take a queue from Chad.

I know cajieboy about as well as I know you, which is, I don't so not sure why that comment needed to be put in your post. As for squashing the myth of plasma burn in, it's been stated so many times in this forum and an easy search would have squashed it for you rather than continuing the myth and actually giving it some more life by making statements such as the ones I highlighted in the previous post.

[/QUOTE=Jojo29;16902084]



Honestly, I don't care what technology someone purchases as that's an individuals choice as I have both LCD and plasma myself. I just get tired of people who continually post false information and/or feed into it. :)

What did you and yours have the tv set to, as far as brightness, contrast, etc.?


You may have hit on the pertinent question. Plasma displays and movie lovers go hand in hand. Movie lovers are apt to dull down their displays to facilitate creation of a movle like experience.

The LCD crowd tends to favor sharp, bright, highly saturated images. This leads to cranking up the settings to get that "pop" that HD is supposed to deliver.

Lower settings on a plasma are good for both the set and viewing movies. Cranking the settings up to resemble an LCD set would likely generate some of the plasma related issues that have been discussed here.

Cranking the settings up to resemble an LCD set would likely generate some of the plasma related issues that have been discussed here.

Um, no!

Guys, its shopping time and from what I have been reading, your a fool not to go plasma unless you have a very bright room or are a gameaholic.
Thoughts?

If you're going to get a plasma get now as I don't believe that technology wll be around too much longer.

I don't think you should buy a plasma if you are a "gameaholic". As longs the AVS forum has a Master Burn-in Thread, always take burn-in concerns very seriously. Don't believe some of plasma zealots, they love to romanticize about plasma, they are the least bit objective concerning the pitfalls of PDP technology.

You may have hit on the pertinent question. Plasma displays and movie lovers go hand in hand. Movie lovers are apt to dull down their displays to facilitate creation of a movle like experience.

The LCD crowd tends to favor sharp, bright, highly saturated images. This leads to cranking up the settings to get that "pop" that HD is supposed to deliver.

Lower settings on a plasma are good for both the set and viewing movies. Cranking the settings up to resemble an LCD set would likely generate some of the plasma related issues that have been discussed here.

I can't speak for others (and it's probably wise you don't either), but I adjusted my TV to give me the best overall and natural looking picture. Same thing I did with my two LCDs. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Jojo29;16902084]

Maxdog03

It's funny you should say that, because i MYSELF ADMITTED i had a limited understanding of the whole LCDvPlasma debacle..

Then you shouldn't make statements like you did in the post I responded to as that's how false information keeps being sent out.

I also stated i have NO PROBLEMS against Plasmas, but, because of my self-admitted limited understanding of the Plasma Burn in issue, coupled with price at the time of my purchase, I decided to go RPTV at the time, the Sony KDS 50A3000. Please, read what i posted.

I read what you posted but your statements that I highlighted made you come across as someone that's made up their mind and passing along false information.

sorry if your buddy cajieboy gives out flavor of the month retorts instead of actually staying on topic and helping people better understand and possibly help squash the myth of Plasma burn in. You two need to take a queue from Chad.

I know cajieboy about as well as I know you, which is, I don't so not sure why that comment needed to be put in your post. As for squashing the myth of plasma burn in, it's been stated so many times in this forum and an easy search would have squashed it for you rather than continuing the myth and actually giving it some more life by making statements such as the ones I highlighted in the previous post.

[/QUOTE=Jojo29;16902084]



Honestly, I don't care what technology someone purchases as that's an individuals choice as I have both LCD and plasma myself. I just get tired of people who continually post false information and/or feed into it. :)

GOtcha and understood maxdog

If you're going to get a plasma get now as I don't believe that technology wll be around too much longer.

I don't think you should buy a plasma if you are a "gameaholic". As longs the AVS forum has a Master Burn-in Thread, always take burn-in concerns very seriously. Don't believe some of plasma zealots, they love to romanticize about plasma, they are the least bit objective concerning the pitfalls of PDP technology.

and when will the last plasma be sold as you've been spewing this for the past couple years and yet plasmas are still available. :D

At least plasma zealots have a tV to watch while an SED zealot only has a dream that will likely never come to fruition. :eek:

Jojo, the way I learned when I first joined this Forum was from others that did exactly as I do. The reason I do it has to do with my idea that you will learn more if you put forth a little effort on your own to actually go do a little Forum searching and Google searching, and research some of these things yourself. These LCD vs Plasma threads have been going on for years w/countless posts. It really isn't that hard to dig a little bit to find the truth to questions you may have on the topic, or any other topic for that matter. All the same, you're right, I could learn something from Chad, and have been doing so for awhile now.

I understand where you are coming from. I m a car enthusiasts, and tuner, and i go to those forums and can gladly say im an expert there, and yes people do tend to post the same questions over and over again, but the way i find the best thing to do is: 1) just don't post or 2) if i do post, let them know hey this has been answered try looking at this link...but we are all different and i agree and disagree with you :)

[QUOTE=maxdog03;16902209]

GOtcha and understood maxdog

No problem. The main thing is to enjoy whatever you purchase and not to second guess yourself as unlike some on her, I feel todays TVs are great values and even though they all have some flaws I consider them minor compared to the enjoyment they offer. :)

and when will the last plasma be sold as you've been spewing this for the past couple years and yet plasmas are still available. :D

At least plasma zealots have a tV to watch while an SED zealot only has a dream that will likely never come to fruition. :eek:

As the world looks towards 12/2012, I will too. I will be looking at a dramatic change in the display technology world. The end of Plasma and the begining of vastly superior display technology emerging.:D

Don't feed the troll, maybe it will go away!

don't feed the troll, maybe it will go away!

+1

...I don't think you should buy a plasma if you are a "gameaholic". As longs the AVS forum has a Master Burn-in Thread, always take burn-in concerns very seriously. Don't believe some of plasma zealots, they love to romanticize about plasma, they are the least bit objective concerning the pitfalls of PDP technology.

Actually for gamers I'd me more concerned about motion blur and ghosting than I would about burn in. I have an LCD now and it's fine for some games but if there's very fast motion the ghosting/blurring isn't very pretty to look at.

You may have hit on the pertinent question. Plasma displays and movie lovers go hand in hand. Movie lovers are apt to dull down their displays to facilitate creation of a movle like experience.

The LCD crowd tends to favor sharp, bright, highly saturated images. This leads to cranking up the settings to get that "pop" that HD is supposed to deliver.

Lower settings on a plasma are good for both the set and viewing movies. Cranking the settings up to resemble an LCD set would likely generate some of the plasma related issues that have been discussed here.

Another load of crap from the LCD peanut gallery.

Who the hell said HD was supposed to deliver "pop"??? If it was anyone it is the low end manufactures that cannot product a decent set cheaply so they crank up the colors and say "Look at me, WOW!" And the stupid buying public at Wal Mart buys into that, so now every HD has to POP. Yeah sure. The sole purpose of HD is to deliver a vastly improved picture in terms of resolution using a delivery system designed to carry the increased amount of data.


As to your second FUD point, cranking up the settings on a plasma is just that, cranked up settings, no more no less. Crank it up to get glow in the dark colors if you want, it wont cause anymore problems than it does on
LCD - none.

If you're going to get a plasma get now as I don't believe that technology wll be around too much longer.

I don't think you should buy a plasma if you are a "gameaholic". As longs the AVS forum has a Master Burn-in Thread, always take burn-in concerns very seriously. Don't believe some of plasma zealots, they love to romanticize about plasma, they are the least bit objective concerning the pitfalls of PDP technology.

And here we have the lover of a non-existent TV technology going on about plasma going away, seems his technology never got here. And he manages to through in his inevitable and oft repeated rant about the burn in thread, Is there any posting on plasmas by him that does not contain that statement?

People we know your hatred of plasma knows no bounds, we get it.

serial mike this post is much better then your last post, congrats for correction:) However lcd Does suck in general as a tv it has to many visable flaws that is discouraging to watch tv and yes plasma has flaws to its not as visable as lcd is. and i think if you own a modern plasma and compare it to a modern lcd you will see the flaws very well.

Sorry there was some loss of concentration as my little one was crying at the time I wrote the post. It has been corrected.

I dont care how many generations you say. Thats the years the sets were bought and they were current line models.

Again I am not saying that current plasma burn. They probably dont. I am saying plasma lost me and I am 100 percent sure many many many others because they beta tested the technology on users to get the burn out. And that made thousands of dollars for each customer into piles of ****.

What I am saying is in this same thread you say plasma is soooooo awesome. YOu guys on these forums act like it has no flaws. It does. You also act as though LCD sucks. It doesnt. It has flaws none NONE of them nearly as bad as what you guys claim.

jojo your post if flawd let me give you a bit of insight, i have 2 plasmas one is a 2007 42" panasonic plasma that i used since the day halo 3 came out, i then got a pioneer elite pro-111 50" plasma and i use the plasma for 90% of gaming (almost everything is for gaming on my plasma) 5% is movies and other 5% is tv with 4:3 content.

i have NO TIR i fall asleep often and i always pause my HD dvr for sure more then half an hr.

if i abuse my set that much and it hasnt gotten even TIR then im sure its all but history so im a heavy gamer and the first thing that came into my mind was a plasma set!
and yes lcd takes care of that "fear" but it does NOT deliver great picture and if you want to get anywher near that great PQ then you need to spend more cash (towards the high end models) by that time you could of bought 2 plasma counter parts and enjoyed better PQ.

Just wanted to say, that this was a pretty informative thread until cajieboy started posting. Sorry to directly point the finger, but your the "type" that make coming to forums an unfriendly and hostile area.

I don't have the most experience with Plasmas/LCDs, or care to do the research of the burn in issue.

All i would recommend to people about the LCD/Plasma is what most people already know and would ask of someone.

Do you watch heavy sports and play games? That is the main question most people ask potential buyers of Plasmas, followed by the typical answer of, If they do those then Plasma might not be for them.

It's simple sound advice. Yeah, sure, Plasma's burn in issue may in fact be over-exaggerated, or maybe it used to have issues but now they are resolved.

The bottom line is though, is people want to know that they can just plug and play without a high chance of burn-in.

Using the above methodology, LCD, will clearly take the cake over Plasma, as it was and has been stated that with "proper" maintanence, Plasmas will work just fine...with proper extra, care. Key word being extra...most people will go for the simplest route.

Also, from what i gather, the "level headed" posters in this thread, have stated that Plasmas excel at dark images and LCDs excel at brighter images, in which case we have a factor of how much better is one over the other? If the difference is neglible, then the choice is obvious: LCD. Why?

You get a VERY damn good picture, without the "extra" worry and work of a Plasma.

Now, don't get me wrong, i don't NOT like Plasma, but i am a heavy gamer myself. I mean i own a PS3, a Wii, and even have my computer hooked up to my TV, so for me, just having that "extra" chance of having a burn in issue, was enough to dissuade me. I mean, we are spending big bucks on TVs, so for me, the one that can give me the best possible picture, for the least amount of money, with the least amount of potential problems, is the TV for me.

In case your wondering, i am also in the market for a TV. I bought my TV February 2008. It was a steal at $1299, it is the Sony KDS-50A3000, in case your wondering. An old TV by today's standards lol, but, im the perfect scenario between the LCD/Plasma debate...

Aydu ask a director if the movie was "intended" to be seen with HIGH Pop and EE and unrealistic contrast / sharpness, over saturated.
You may have hit on the pertinent question. Plasma displays and movie lovers go hand in hand. Movie lovers are apt to dull down their displays to facilitate creation of a movle like experience.

The LCD crowd tends to favor sharp, bright, highly saturated images. This leads to cranking up the settings to get that "pop" that HD is supposed to deliver.

Lower settings on a plasma are good for both the set and viewing movies. Cranking the settings up to resemble an LCD set would likely generate some of the plasma related issues that have been discussed here.

i agree
Actually for gamers I'd me more concerned about motion blur and ghosting than I would about burn in. I have an LCD now and it's fine for some games but if there's very fast motion the ghosting/blurring isn't very pretty to look at.

Another load of crap from the LCD peanut gallery.

Who the hell said HD was supposed to deliver "pop"??? If it was anyone it is the low end manufactures that cannot product a decent set cheaply so they crank up the colors and say "Look at me, WOW!" And the stupid buying public at Wal Mart buys into that, so now every HD has to POP. Yeah sure. The sole purpose of HD is to deliver a vastly improved picture in terms of resolution using a delivery system designed to carry the increased amount of data.


well lcds do look more crisp ,sharp and more life like then the plasmas,i think thats what he meant by pop,even OLED look more crisp and sharp like lcds,but with the obvious advantages of OLED like contrast,response time etc.

Pop comes from Black. The better the color black and the gradiants in the lower 30 percent grey scale, The more "Pop" you get. Pop also comes from white being the Truest color white. This does not come from Over contrasting or Over brightening the image.

Pop doesnt come from oversaturating or over sharpening.

Most pop is the Darkest Black combined with the truest white.

Plasma gets its pop from darker darks. LCD gets its pop from whiter white. Both pop just differently and a different times of the day.

LCDs pop more than plasmas for 2 simple reasons. No ABL, no dithering. LCDs might lose at motion resolution but they are ahead when it comes to static resolution and they don't use pseudo dynamic contrast (ABL)

A bright room is a problem for plasmas.

Plasma fans will tell you that burn-in is a thing of the past. My experience is that it is still something to be aware of if you use the set in particular ways.

Example - you leave the set on a particular channel that has set logos or a crawl at the bottom of the screen. Something like ESPN or CNN. Or, you watch mostly SD images, which are 4:3, leaving black bars on the side. These can burn-in over time, if used excessively.

Another situation would be if you have kids that use the set for videos or games. They tend to leave things paused for hours. This can cause Spongebob to be a regular part of your viewing, if you're not careful.

Plasmas tend to do very well with movies, resolving dark shadow detail. If you like the type of film that tends to have lots of dark scenes, this is your technology.

The downside is that the whites generated by plasmas tend to look grey, when compared with LCD. Basically, one technology excels at displaying the darks, the other the bright.

One issue that has always killed plasma for me is the screen glare. I always see myself watching a plasma screen - regardless of how nice and dark the room is. Some of this is the reflective nature of plasma screens, some is me being too easily distracted.

Plasma is cheap right now. You can get a much bigger screen size per dollar spent than with LCD. If price is an important factor, plasma would be hard to ignore.

Bottom line - both technologies offer picture quality that exceeds what any of us have had in our homes before. You cannot go wrong with either decision. One may fit your viewing preferences better than the other, and that is the direction you'll likely be most happy with.

Careful, this is an overly simplistic answer to a complex question.

In the old days plasmas were reflective and LCDs were matte. Not anymore. Practically every Samsung LCD and LED tv has a very reflective screen that is actually more reflective than plasmas (being a glass screen, plasmas have great antiglare coatings applied in the manufacturing process. Samsung LCDs and LEDs don't). Toshiba is the same way on their larger, performance screens.

So, if reflective light is an issue, consider LCDs by Sony, Sharp, LG or Panasonic.

well lcds do look more crisp ,sharp and more life like then the plasmas,i think thats what he meant by pop,even OLED look more crisp and sharp like lcds,but with the obvious advantages of OLED like contrast,response time etc.

What are you defining as "life like?

;16906787']What are you defining as "life like?

well i mean they look more real ,compared to plasma which kinda looks a movie .especialy when playing games like crysis which looks more life like in lcds then compared to plasmas.

well lcds do look more crisp ,sharp and more life like then the plasmas,i think thats what he meant by pop,even OLED look more crisp and sharp like lcds,but with the obvious advantages of OLED like contrast,response time etc.


If you feed them the same 1080p signal and LCD is crisper than it's simply a product of processing, or over processing. Edge enhancement is used to overcome many ills.

LCDs pop more than plasmas for 2 simple reasons. No ABL, no dithering. LCDs might lose at motion resolution but they are ahead when it comes to static resolution and they don't use pseudo dynamic contrast (ABL)

Dithering has nothing to do with "pop".
Dithering cannot be seen at normal distance.

This "pop" many are speaking of is one thing and one thing only. and thats higher luminance.
Not whiter whites, higher luminance.
The color white is a defined color, not a level of brightness.

Plasmas look better because they have true "pop".
The "pop" comes from having a very low black level as a background.

YOu can have an LCD that goes up to 180fl, but it will look terrible without a good black level to base it on.

the term contrast when it comes to televisions mainly denotes black level.
Not luminance.

Once your overall brightness gets to a certain point, going higher is pointless and does not increase PQ..
But the benefits of blacks keep growing and growing until you hit zero MLL.

Contrast is the single most important factor to PQ.
And Contrast depends mainly on black level not brightness.

When you get in the 50+fl lminance area like with the elite 9G's, going brighter isn't going to buy you much.

;16906777']Careful, this is an overly simplistic answer to a complex question.

In the old days plasmas were reflective and LCDs were matte. Not anymore. Practically every Samsung LCD and LED tv has a very reflective screen that is actually more reflective than plasmas (being a glass screen, plasmas have great antiglare coatings applied in the manufacturing process. Samsung LCDs and LEDs don't). Toshiba is the same way on their larger, performance screens.

So, if reflective light is an issue, consider LCDs by Sony, Sharp, LG or Panasonic.Not an over simplification at all.

Anybody in their right mind will buy a set after personally viewing it. Only the spec crazy people on these forums would buy something sight unseen based on input from people who think just like them.

If you are shopping in person, you'll have a chance to see the reflective properties of the screens you're considering. If the reflection bothers you, move on to one that doesn't. Pretty simple.

As you mentioned, reflective properties of screens have broadened beyond just the technology used to create the image. I'd suggest selecting a set based on liking the pq first. Then, the asthetics of the set, including the ability of the screen's coating (or lack thereof) to work in the intended room.

Whatever technology delivers this set (plasma, LCD, etc.) really doesn't matter that much, in less you have uses that would tend to favor one technology over the other - computer use, gaming, etc.

Too often people add complication to very simple, common sense decisions.

Too often people add complication to very simple, common sense decisions.

Now that is a funny statement. If it is such a simple common sense decision why do people him and haw about it all the time even after seen the picture quality of their chosen displays? So then what does common sense say to choose? What is that old saying?........Common sense isn't so common, or something to that effect?

It doesn't seem like "common sense" to pay more per square inch screen size for an inferior technology such as LCD. Seems to me, the "common sense" would require differently. I guess there are just too many people lacking "common sense".:D

Suppose that is where the saying comes from!!! Common sense isn't so common!!!!

I do have to say though that being an owner of both techs I still can't see why anyone truly prefers a LCD over a plasma. I will have to say though that I haven't used my plasma for a computer monitor but really have no need for a 50" computer monitor! LCD does work pretty good for computer monitors I will say. As long as you are sitting in front of them and not trying to share one from the sides! This "POP" people speak of is hype from the HD companies then portayed as an overly colored picture by sales people. If I am watching anything I would rather be able to look at the display then outside and not be able to tell a difference between the two. Realism at its finest!! That is just me though and I have to say the LCD disappoints in this area for me. Just my opinion and 2 cents.

If you feed them the same 1080p signal and LCD is crisper than it's simply a product of processing, or over processing. Edge enhancement is used to overcome many ills.

from what i've always read,

pop comes from Lcds naturally polarized light, not edge enhancement, though i hear it a lot.
polarized (directional) light makes for a sharp image (no crosstalk between pixels) but being directional, also causes dim off-axis viewing.
its a trade-off.

emissive pixels on the other hand shoot light in every direction (like tiny lightbulbs) increasing crosstalk but providing a softer image.
in real life, smooth objects reflect light directionally and rough objects diffuse light.

from what i've always read,

pop comes from Lcds naturally polarized light, not edge enhancement, though i hear it a lot.
polarized (directional) light makes for a sharp image (no crosstalk between pixels) but being directional, also causes dim off-axis viewing.
its a trade-off.

emissive pixels on the other hand shoot light in every direction (like tiny lightbulbs) increasing crosstalk but providing a softer image.
in real life, smooth objects reflect light directionally and rough objects diffuse light.

This.

See to me this is huge, when I look outside the colors all have "cross talk" if you will. It is all supposed to blend together not be sharp and distinct. It should blend. To me this is one of the biggest detractors from LCD to me is that it just doesn't blend and look real to my eyes.

See to me this is huge, when I look outside the colors all have "cross talk" if you will. It is all supposed to blend together not be sharp and distinct. It should blend. To me this is one of the biggest detractors from LCD to me is that it just doesn't blend and look real to my eyes.

But this is not true. Objects in real life do not blend the color on thier edges onto the background or other objects. I am looking at my tan recliner witha dark wood book case behind it in low light and the edge of the chair is a s sharp as can be, no blend no softness.

When an LCD is showing something still like a baseball game broadcast for instance the image on a calibrated LCD looks more natural to me. Like I am at the game. The problem is to many people see the LCD in store with edge enhance on sharpness up etc etc etc and think thats LCD.
It's not.

Plasma to me looks more film like which is softer and dimmer.

just my opinion.

To each their own. My eyes see nice soft images every where I look. Because there is always shadows between two objects that soften and blend them together. Just the way I see the world I suppose, other definately see it much different. Black and white to many shades of gray.

Plasma to me looks more film like which is softer and dimmer.

just my opinion.

exactly,tv manufactures and people ultimately want a display that can show images just like how our eyes see,which is where lcds are closer to that goal.when i play games with realistic graphics, in a plasma i am reminded constantly that this is a game,where as in lcd you feel like you are inside the game.

Dithering has nothing to do with "pop".
Dithering cannot be seen at normal distance.

This "pop" many are speaking of is one thing and one thing only. and thats higher luminance.
Not whiter whites, higher luminance.
The color white is a defined color, not a level of brightness.

Plasmas look better because they have true "pop".
The "pop" comes from having a very low black level as a background.

YOu can have an LCD that goes up to 180fl, but it will look terrible without a good black level to base it on.

the term contrast when it comes to televisions mainly denotes black level.
Not luminance.

Once your overall brightness gets to a certain point, going higher is pointless and does not increase PQ..
But the benefits of blacks keep growing and growing until you hit zero MLL.

Contrast is the single most important factor to PQ.
And Contrast depends mainly on black level not brightness.

When you get in the 50+fl lminance area like with the elite 9G's, going brighter isn't going to buy you much.

First of all Chad dithering is easily visible from a reasonable distance of 5 feet on a 50" panel. Some people do sit this close or closer for the theater experince.

Almost any LCD today has a good enough black base to look good in a bright/semi bright room. Even though the color of white hasn't changed on the plasma the picture dims dramatically, easily noticeable in a bright room and if happened on an LCD you'd call it "dynamic contrast". Got lost on BR? Opening sequence with the Oceanic airlines logo at the start of disc.. The Kuro looks terrible on a full/near full white screen, even in the dark. That's an extreme, but the same thing happens in daytime outdoor shots, animation and sports.

Blacks may be a determining factor for a high contrast ratio but what does it matter if your blacks wash out or your picture is dynamically dimming? Room lighting hugely affects CR and most LCDs will have a higher CR in a bright room because their black levels aren't effected (in fact they're enhanced) and brightness stays static. PDP on the other hand have elevated blacks and a dynamically dimming picture, I doubt they even get past 3 figure contrast ratios in semi bright rooms.

Of course a quick reminder 50ftl on a Kuro is hardly ever 50ftl. In a dark room your eyes won't notice the dynamic contrast (abl) working, turn on a light and it's easy to see. Don't believe me? I know hockey isn't exactly the rage where your from but try a match on your PDP. Hell watch some full screen hd animation and see what happens when scenes change, Futurama is a great test.

PDP pop more than LCD in a dark room? Sure, never anywhere else

I've never seen the ABL actively dimming except during two circumstances.

1) Doing anything that shrinks the image on screen, like opening up the menu on my cable box or flipping on PIP. The smaller image will look brighter (if it's bright to begin with).

2) Dragging a white window from small to large or vice-versa with my laptop hooked up to the display.

Beyond that, I don't notice it working and it's never bothered me. I've watched hockey, winter sports and Planet Earth with lots of snow-covered content and have never, even when the room is quite bright, desired more brightness. My prior HDTV could sail past 100fTL full screen without breaking a sweat. I have yet to miss it. :)

Adjustable ABLs would be nice, though, but that would demand beefy and expensive power supplies. The VX series Panasonics can hit a very bright full screen white, but take a look at their price tag. For something that I personally wouldn't appreciate much, it wouldn't be a very worthwhile investment.

yeah, now that you mention it, my kuro does look a bit soft on some 1080 blu-rays.

good grief.

James

I've never seen the ABL actively dimming except during two circumstances.

1) Doing anything that shrinks the image on screen, like opening up the menu on my cable box or flipping on PIP. The smaller image will look brighter (if it's bright to begin with).

2) Dragging a white window from small to large or vice-versa with my laptop hooked up to the display.

Beyond that, I don't notice it working and it's never bothered me. I've watched hockey, winter sports and Planet Earth with lots of snow-covered content and have never, even when the room is quite bright, desired more brightness. My prior HDTV could sail past 100fTL full screen without breaking a sweat. I have yet to miss it. :)

Adjustable ABLs would be nice, though, but that would demand beefy and expensive power supplies. The VX series Panasonics can hit a very bright full screen white, but take a look at their price tag. For something that I personally wouldn't appreciate much, it wouldn't be a very worthwhile investment.

Not saying I don't believe you but I see it working, especially A/Bing other display types. People in plasma threads who don't even know anything about TVs complain about dim winter sports and bright scenes so I must not be completely off my rocker :) Hell on my old Panasonic I could see it dimming with the PIP in my DVR's guide depending on what was in the PIP.

If the current ABL system suffices for you more power to you. If plasma fixed dithering and ABL I'd be all over them and would never buy another LCD, until then gotta deal with both.

Now that is a funny statement. If it is such a simple common sense decision why do people him and haw about it all the time even after seen the picture quality of their chosen displays? So then what does common sense say to choose? What is that old saying?........Common sense isn't so common, or something to that effect?People often procrastinate when making big purchases that they will have to live with for some time.

All the new sets offer pq that is greater than most of us have ever experienced in their homes. You literally can't go wrong.

When people get stumped as to which set to buy, they should look at the non pq related issues the set presents. For example, the number and type of hookups - what do they need and what does the set have.

Another issue is the remote - if they are going to use it for more than setup. Which one fits the hand better and has a layout that makes sense to them.

Finally, size and reflectivity of the screen. Will the unit fit where it needs to go? If it does, what is the ambient lighting situation? Does one screen type work better in the environment than another?

These are all things a good sales person does to make a sale and help the customer decide. Blue shirt droids don't excel at this, leaving many standing in the aisle, mouths open, unable to decide.

In the end, things are as hard as we make them.

If the current ABL system suffices for you more power to you. If plasma fixed dithering and ABL I'd be all over them and would never buy another LCD, until then gotta deal with both.
I asked xrox why the ABL issue wasn't being addressed?

His response was its been the number one priority way before Kuro and still is the number one issue being worked on today.

I asked xrox why the ABL issue wasn't being addressed?

His response was its been the number one priority way before Kuro and still is the number one issue being worked on today.I think the context was efficiency (lm/w) ;), not specific to ABL issues. It has always been the top research topic for PDP and still is.

I think the context was efficiency (lm/w) ;), not specific to ABL issues. It has always been the top research topic for PDP and still is.
Went back and you said efficiency I stand corrected.

So improving brightness is the number one priority.

I asked xrox why the ABL issue wasn't being addressed?

His response was its been the number one priority way before Kuro and still is the number one issue being worked on today.

It might be why Pioneer abandoned plasma too, or at least a small reason. People say it's marketing/sales but now insiders are leaving hints Pioneer might be already ramping up for OLED. If their plasma was so superior and they saw a future in it why bother?

I think the context was efficiency (lm/w) ;), not specific to ABL issues. It has always been the top research topic for PDP and still is.

Greater efficiency would be somewhat related no? I don't understand the exact science but I do know they are somewhat related problems. Lower power usage for similar brightness means the ABL could be relaxed? That's what I was expecting from Panasonic this year but they seemed more focused on pure energy savings.

Again the sony manuals do not provide such warning. And to further enhance LCD inability to burn in. Of all the PC monitor LCD I have had at home work freinds etc(and its more than I can count) I have ne ver ever seen a warning about burning in a screen.

LCD cannot be burned in. Samsung does indeed have that warning. I had an a650 for 3 weeks. I returned it because I hated the set. I can only assume it is something with the glossy screen that can get image burned in the tint.

You are talking out both sides of your mouth here.

You can't say LCDs don't burn and then say, well, maybe it's just the ones that have tinted reflective screens.

Logic flaw.

well i mean they look more real ,compared to plasma which kinda looks a movie .especialy when playing games like crysis which looks more life like in lcds then compared to plasmas.

So video looks more lifelike to you than film?

I'd hope so that's kind of the point of video vs film :rolleyes:

Film isn't supposed to look real it's supposed to add to the movie "ambiance" People don't use film because it looks better they use it to add effect to either movies or dramas on TV and things that benefit for similar reasons.

Not an over simplification at all.

Anybody in their right mind will buy a set after personally viewing it. Only the spec crazy people on these forums would buy something sight unseen based on input from people who think just like them.

If you are shopping in person, you'll have a chance to see the reflective properties of the screens you're considering. If the reflection bothers you, move on to one that doesn't. Pretty simple.

As you mentioned, reflective properties of screens have broadened beyond just the technology used to create the image. I'd suggest selecting a set based on liking the pq first. Then, the asthetics of the set, including the ability of the screen's coating (or lack thereof) to work in the intended room.

Whatever technology delivers this set (plasma, LCD, etc.) really doesn't matter that much, in less you have uses that would tend to favor one technology over the other - computer use, gaming, etc.

Too often people add complication to very simple, common sense decisions.

Too many people buy sets based on myth, misconception, and FUD. I see it everyday.

"I want an LED because it's so thin!"

"Well, I know I don't want plasma because you have to refill them every 2-3 years"

"I don't want plasma because of the reflection. Let me have that Samsung LCD"

"I've done my research, and I know my stuff. I don't want HDI. It's a ripoff. So, what do you have that doesn't use HDI?"

"Are these your Heavy Duty TVs?"

Greater efficiency would be somewhat related no? I don't understand the exact science but I do know they are somewhat related problems. Lower power usage for similar brightness means the ABL could be relaxed? That's what I was expecting from Panasonic this year but they seemed more focused on pure energy savings.Yes, efficiency is enabling to almost every parameter and they have to choose how to use it.

;16918976']You are talking out both sides of your mouth here.

You can't say LCDs don't burn and then say, well, maybe it's just the ones that have tinted reflective screens.

Logic flaw.

LCD as a technology does not burn. I can say this because its true. LCD is not the coating technology that some manufacturer puts on their set that may get burned. Just because the samsung may burn and it is an LCD does not mean the LCD itself burns.

LCD does not burn.

LCD as a technology does not burn. I can say this because its true. LCD is not the coating technology that some manufacturer puts on their set that may get burned. Just because the samsung may burn and it is an LCD does not mean the LCD itself burns.

LCD does not burn.

Samsung LCD sets can burn. People as a whole don't know the difference between coatings or screen materials that might make one model or brand more prone to burn in. They read a blanket comment like "LCDs don't burn" and sadly believe it.

LCD is more than just a panel technology. Consumers don't care about nuances in panel technology.

;16919284']Samsung LCD sets can burn. People as a whole don't know the difference between coatings or screen materials that might make one model or brand more prone to burn in. They read a blanket comment like "LCDs don't burn" and sadly believe it.

LCD is more than just a panel technology. Consumers don't care about nuances in panel technology.

Ok samsung sets burn because of crappy coatings. LCD technology does not burn. buy a Sony, LG, Olevia, Vizio, Panasonic Dell or any other LCD it does not burn.

Sometimes (actually the condition is extremely rare) LCDs can acquire permanent markings from defective LCD panel driver circuitry. That is a circuit defect that should be covered by warranty, as long as the set is still under warranty. Once the effect has happened, the panel needs replacing, so the real remedy is to get your warranty credit and go shopping for a new HDTV.

The electrical effect that causes the visible defect is called "electrophoresis". Basicly through a circuit defect a "DC offset" is applied to the panel, causing a minute electric field to exist that seperates some of the molecules used to comprise the liquid crystals. Once those complex molecules are torn, there is no healing the panel.

The normal DC offset in a properly working panel is zero (i.e. the applied voltage is AC and perfectly balanced either side of the zero voltage), no net electric field exists to damage the crystals, and the panel life is almost infinate. (The typical LCD display defect is either a power supply failure or a backlight failure but the mean time to failure for most CCFL backlights is 10+ years.) (Both backlights and power supplies are easily replaced.)

Those panels most prone to a damaging electrophoretic voltages are the so-called "overdriven" panels used for computer monitors where the main application is gaming. Overdrive is literally what it says - an over-voltage applied to the panel to speed performance. Thus when a small DC offset exists, the overdriven panel shows the effects of the electrophoretic damage fairly rapidly.

To my knowledge, overdrive techniques are not used for HDTV video displays. That would make the failure commonly called "burn-in" almost unheard of, an extreme rarity.

In a plasma panel, the burn-in phenomenon is caused by an excessive amount of current flowing through a plasma cell, accelerating the phosphor decay that causes the eventual death of all displays containing phosphors (CRTs and plasmas). But in ALL plasma panels and all CRTs the phosphors are aging continuously as long as the set is in use. Instead of being a rare failure, the effects of phosphor aging and wear are the inevitable end of all plasma (and CRT) displays. The trick is to use the display under conditions of reduced brightness and contrast so as to slow the phosphor aging to a minimum. That is why one of the few HDTVs I would avoid is last year's model that has been a floor sample, running in "torch mode" for a year or more - lots of phosphor wear in that case.

To my knowledge, overdrive techniques are not used for HDTV video displays. That would make the failure commonly called "burn-in" almost unheard of, an extreme rarity. Overdrive has been, and still is, used in LCD HDTV. From what I've read, it is almost required for high refresh LCD panels for obvious reasons.

In a plasma panel, the burn-in phenomenon is caused by an excessive amount of current flowing through a plasma cell, accelerating the phosphor decay In Plasma displays, true burn-in is caused by Solarization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solarization).

I'd hope so that's kind of the point of video vs film :rolleyes:

Film isn't supposed to look real it's supposed to add to the movie "ambiance" People don't use film because it looks better they use it to add effect to either movies or dramas on TV and things that benefit for similar reasons.Boy, did somebody successfully sell you that worse is better.

Film is a means of delivering an image. Better film stock, and photographic techniques do this better than not.

Film has it's built in advantages and disadvantages.

Video and digital recording has opened up an new level of transparency to recording images that film was never capable of delivering.

Film is akin to the old 78 rpm records. Saying that film isn't supposed to look real - which is what you said (I'm guessing with a straight face) - is like saying that an old 78 record is the way music is supposed to sound.

Time marches on. Film's days are numbered, just like black and white and soundless features.

LCD as a technology does not burn. I can say this because its true. LCD is not the coating technology that some manufacturer puts on their set that may get burned. Just because the samsung may burn and it is an LCD does not mean the LCD itself burns.

LCD does not burn.

What do you mean by coating technology?




(4.2) Overdrive (LCD):
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Overdrive was invented by various manufactures to accelerate gray to gray transition times by increasing the voltage and amp levels of the driving circuitry. If the overdrive mechanism is incorrectly configured or over used, it would cause pixels to malfunction and may even result in permanent screen damage. In most cases, it leads to [image retention] (IR), grayscale banding and motion related artifacts (such as smearing).

The cause of IR in LCDs is relatively simple: Each pixel consists of capacitor and transistor, which governs position of the liquid crystals. Due to the nature of the current LCD technology, the picture elements continue to receive power when active. Overdriving such elements adds additional (unwanted) stress, which often leads to IR.

Unlike phosphor based displays, IR on LCD can occur at any given moment and prevention is sometimes futile. In addition, as the LCD module ages, it'll become more prone to such phenomenon.

From experience, I have witnessed numerous manufactures continue to push the limits of overdrive without perfecting the algorithm. The 32” 1080p S-PVA module found in Toshiba 32RV635D and Sony XBR9 suffers from serious motion smearing and mild form of IR from the very start. The Panasonic 32S10 suffers from overdrive related phenomenon now commonly referred to as [‘black ghosting’].

Manufactures must accept the fact that incorrectly configured overdrive is not acceptable regardless of how they wish to portray it. It is a flaw and therefore must be rectified.

Providing overdrive is correctly configured, it usually doesn’t pose a problem. So before purchasing an LCD display, make sure it doesn’t suffer from over-drive related issues.

Note: If image retention occurs, unplug the LCD from all connected devices including the mains for 24hours.

More information regarding image retention can be found at [behardware.com].


PS: xrox, if you find any errors above, please let me know.

Boy, did somebody successfully sell you that worse is better.

Yep. Someone tell all those artists to throw away their paintbrushes and canvases. Don't they know that we have cameras now? And I hear that the Mona Lisa will be removed from public display and a model is going to pose for a photographic replica which will be put in place of the original.

Technology demands it!

P.S. I'm not discounting video on any level nor am I claiming that it's a worse medium than film. But there are qualities of film (and other "outdated" technology such as 24fps) that are pleasing to many filmmakers and viewers alike. Reference "300", a movie shot on video with grain added digitally in order to provide a more film-like picture.

The 32” 1080p S-PVA module found in Toshiba 32RV635D and Sony XBR9 suffers from serious motion smearing and mild form of IR from the very start. The Panasonic 32S10 suffers from overdrive related phenomenon now commonly referred to as [‘black ghosting’].

.

does the sony XBR9 use a SPVA for sure or does it use a AMVA panel,i taught toshiba only use AU optronics apart from the IPS alpha.since i remember reading about toshiba placing orders from AU optronics rather then samsung.

Toshiba will use anything ^-^

As for the XBR9, it may also contain A-MVA, but a friend of my confirmed his version contained an S-PVA panel.


PS: The attachments are from the Toshiba 32RV635, which I'm currently reviewing.

Toshiba will use anything ^-^

As for the XBR9, it may also contain A-MVA, but a friend of my confirmed his version contained an S-PVA panel.


PS: The attachments are from the Toshiba 32RV635, which I'm currently reviewing.

those image surely look likes a SPVA,then i guess there input lag won't be anywhere near IPS or even a AMVA.
looks like you have upgraded to a camera that takes better macro shots,much better then the macro shots of B750 and 32S10;)

It's the same camera ^-^

What do you mean by coating technology

i think he means there are no phosphors in the screen to burn in. there are only color filters which make no light themselves (and can't burn in). phosphor coated backlights wear but won't make ghost images appear since its global illumination.

LCD as a technology does not burn. I can say this because its true. LCD is not the coating technology that some manufacturer puts on their set that may get burned. Just because the samsung may burn and it is an LCD does not mean the LCD itself burns.

LCD does not burn.

No dogs are black.
This group of dogs has black fur.
They don't have black skin, therefore, no dogs are black.



:rolleyes:

Boy, did somebody successfully sell you that worse is better.

Film is a means of delivering an image. Better film stock, and photographic techniques do this better than not.

Film has it's built in advantages and disadvantages.

Video and digital recording has opened up an new level of transparency to recording images that film was never capable of delivering.

Film is akin to the old 78 rpm records. Saying that film isn't supposed to look real - which is what you said (I'm guessing with a straight face) - is like saying that an old 78 record is the way music is supposed to sound.

Time marches on. Film's days are numbered, just like black and white and soundless features.

You misunderstood, I yearn for the day when film is gone. I was more or less insinuating that film directors don't use it for realism, they use it for the "dream" like effect it creates. Video is much more realistic IMHO. 60fps video has been around for a while now, directors know it looks better and more realistic yet they continue to use film.

BTW I'll take vinyl over any overcompressed crap CD (except a select few) that is being made today :)

You misunderstood, I yearn for the day when film is gone. I was more or less insinuating that film directors don't use it for realism, they use it for the "dream" like effect it creates. Video is much more realistic IMHO. 60fps video has been around for a while now, directors know it looks better and more realistic yet they continue to use film.

BTW I'll take vinyl over any overcompressed crap CD (except a select few) that is being made today :)

Because movies are stories and not intended to be realistic.
If movies were shot at 60 fps Id never go to a theater again.

It will happen sooner or later. Get used to it. Film is antiquated technology, when all movies are shot in digital at 60fps we will all be much better off. I don't understand how someone would want 24fps over 60fps or higher.

Say no to motion interpolation, but not higher frame rates, that's backwards thinking.

Let's put it this way, if they had the 60fps video when film was invented they would have never bothered using it. Film right now is more about tradition and creating ambiance then it is about giving the viewer a better picture.

Because movies are stories and not intended to be realistic.
If movies were shot at 60 fps Id never go to a theater again.I don't mean to be insulting, but this is just plain silly.

Movie makers go to great detail to recreate sets and costume actors to create realism in telling their stories.

Some go overboard and stylize their flicks to enhance the mood of their films and enhance the sense of realism.

Recently hand held cameras are used to create that "you are there" sense.

I wouldn't give up movies just because they change technology. Sound, color, stereo, multi-channel sound are all technological changes that have made movie viewing as popular as it is today. No reason to think that continued evolution within the film industry will ruin things.

The hand held camera is about the worst thing to hit movies in decades. And, I agree if movies switched to video format I'd quit watching them too. There are hundreds of hours of reality crap done on video, feel free to watch all that dreck if you like the look of video. Video is flat and lifeless, it is incapable of presenting depth and subtlety. It's a basically in your face format that certainly meshes well with a number of members of these forums.

The hand held camera is about the worst thing to hit movies in decades. And, I agree if movies switched to video format I'd quit watching them too. There are hundreds of hours of reality crap done on video, feel free to watch all that dreck if you like the look of video. Video is flat and lifeless, it is incapable of presenting depth and subtlety. It's a basically in your face format that certainly meshes well with a number of members of these forums.Video vs film is certainly a preference item - no universal right or wrong.

Video does come close to the actual "looking out a window" experience. Viewing things as we do in real life isn't bad, and some would argue that this is the end goal of any video recording.

With audio, we tend to think that eliminating the scratching sound and pops present of early 78 rpm recordings is a good thing, as it get us closer to the live sound of music. With film, eliminating these same scratching sounds and pops (film grain) is akin to treason to the arts.

It is somewhat ironic that all the major TV manufacturers are working hard to offer features that make film look more like video. These are the same people who are revered here for there sets, by people who can't wait to pay extra for these features so they can immediately turn them off.

Strange.

Whose to say that filmmakers couldn't recreate the feel of film on video. I haven't seen one good post justifying film use. Saying is "us vs.the video guys" is just plain out childish. "Oh you don't agree with me so your are stupid!" Video is flat and lifeless, it is incapable of presenting depth and subtlety. Please explain instead of just using baseless blanket statements.

The hand held camera is about the worst thing to hit movies in decades. And, I agree if movies switched to video format I'd quit watching them too.

well i hope they switch to video format.since it will save a whole lot in power consumption,since plasma owners like you will stop watching.:D

well i hope they switch to video format.since it will save a whole lot in power consumption,since plasma owners like you will stop watching.:D

Interesting statement, do you save truly any power consumption by using a specific display to really make a difference? How many of you home lighting fixtures have you upgraded to be energy efficient? How many miles to the gallon does your car get? Is your house totally sealed to maximize heating and cooling? Is your furnace/boiler a high effieciency type? Do you use electric heat? Is any of your appliences really energy efficient? Seriously now, people state the energy consumption is so huge yet the newer displays are all so relativly close that every time you leave a 100 watt bulb or two on for no reason you are wasting more electricity than the displays do. Sure some older plasmas sucked up some juice but still not that much. The energy that is wated in all other aspects of our homes well outways what any of our displays waste. This does not apply to everyone here so do not start ranting on here if you do do alot of energy saving. Anyone complaining about the energy consumption should stop and take a good look at other aspects of their home wasting energy before they worry so much about a couple of light bulbs at the most!

Whose to say that filmmakers couldn't recreate the feel of film on video. I haven't seen one good post justifying film use. Saying is "us vs.the video guys" is just plain out childish. "Oh you don't agree with me so your are stupid!" Please explain instead of just using baseless blanket statements.

I have not seen one show/movie shot on video that has any depth of field. Every aspect of images shot on video is in sharp focus unlike real life. The lighting affects it differently and shadow detail is missing, the simple fact is there is not subtly to video.

Interesting statement, do you save truly any power consumption by using a specific display to really make a difference? How many of you home lighting fixtures have you upgraded to be energy efficient? How many miles to the gallon does your car get? Is your house totally sealed to maximize heating and cooling? Is your furnace/boiler a high effieciency type? Do you use electric heat? Is any of your appliences really energy efficient? Seriously now, people state the energy consumption is so huge yet the newer displays are all so relativly close that every time you leave a 100 watt bulb or two on for no reason you are wasting more electricity than the displays do. Sure some older plasmas sucked up some juice but still not that much. The energy that is wated in all other aspects of our homes well outways what any of our displays waste. This does not apply to everyone here so do not start ranting on here if you do do alot of energy saving. Anyone complaining about the energy consumption should stop and take a good look at other aspects of their home wasting energy before they worry so much about a couple of light bulbs at the most!

well yes i do have energy efficient lighting,99% of the light bulbs in my house are cfl,the rest are led based.yes most of the appliances are high efficiency ones.
the fact is even new plasmas consume around twice as more, compared to a normal ccfl backlight lcd and led edge/backlight based are even more efficient.
you need to start somewhere in saving energy.

well yes i do have energy efficient lighting,99% of the light bulbs in my house are cfl,the rest are led based.yes most of the appliances are high efficiency ones.
the fact is even new plasmas consume around twice as more, compared to a normal ccfl backlight lcd and led edge/backlight based are even more efficient.
you need to start somewhere in saving energy.

ok, so if some new study comes out showing that blu-ray consumes a little more energy than DVD players, are you going to stop watching BD-rom because you might save a dollar or two a month?
after all, you have to start somewhere.

Or that using an outhouse will save water consumption over a standard toilet, are you going to get an outhouse??
After all, you have to start saving water somewhere.

I mean come on, this logic is flawed.

Maybe I could understand if a plasma costs you a noticable amount more on your energy bill, but its so small you wont really notice it unless you get out a calculator and start comparing to find that 3-4 dollar difference.
And for most of us, our time is worth more than that.

If you are spending thousands of dollars on a TV, then quiveling over a couple bucks a month seems pretty pointless to me.

I have not seen one show/movie shot on video that has any depth of field. Every aspect of images shot on video is in sharp focus unlike real life. The lighting affects it differently and shadow detail is missing, the simple fact is there is not subtly to video.You might want to have your vision checked. Video has the advantage of looking more like natural vision than film.

ok, so if some new study comes out showing that blu-ray consumes a little more energy than DVD players, are you going to stop watching BD-rom because you might save a dollar or two a month?
after all, you have to start somewhere.

Or that using an outhouse will save water consumption over a standard toilet, are you going to get an outhouse??
After all, you have to start saving water somewhere.

I mean come on, this logic is flawed.

Maybe I could understand if a plasma costs you a noticable amount more on your energy bill, but its so small you wont really notice it unless you get out a calculator and start comparing to find that 3-4 dollar difference.
And for most of us, our time is worth more than that.

If you are spending thousands of dollars on a TV, then quiveling over a couple bucks a month seems pretty pointless to me.

well its not about saving 1 or 2 dollars ,i am saying in terms of going green.
in dvd vs blu-ray ,the image/sound quality difference is significant,but in a plasma vs lcd ,the image quality difference ain't much,it all comes dowm to what he or she prefers.

well its not about saving 1 or 2 dollars ,i am saying in terms of going green.
in dvd vs blu-ray ,the image/sound quality difference is significant,but in a plasma vs lcd ,the image quality difference ain't much,it all comes dowm to what he or she prefers.
So if going green is the issue then quit using dishwasher, no more a/c systems, toaster ovens, hair driers, curling irons, and other true power hogs. The power consumption is already so low that it is not much different than having a couple of 100 watt light bulbs on for a for a few hours. Also come on due to the PQ difference it would be ok to use an energy hog, seems like a strange bit of logic to me. If I remember right if you are using a PS3 to do blu-ray you are using as much or more than your average plasma or LCD.

it all comes dowm to what he or she prefers.

Exactly, so maybe you should allow others to do just that. :D

Exactly, so maybe you should allow others to do just that. :D

fine let us all buy ourselfs hummers and corvette Z06.
sooner or later i think there will be restrictions,like EU considering a ban on plasma.

LOL

The ban is only enforceable on sizes above 60", which is pointless.


The EU really have rethink on some of their polices

For those who are debating motion resolution (24 vs 30 vs 48 vs 60), you are all forgetting the limitations imposed by high-motion.

Low-light filming is still a major issue with current CMOS and CCD censors. Dynamic range is also an factor. There are few methods currently in development to overcome dynamic range, but low-light is something that is hard to combat.

In addition, majority of cinemas are still using standard film and not all of them of a subject to upgradability (mainly due to cost)


So 24p will continue to be the primary format in the Hollywood industry. In few decades, we all be using frameless rendering/capturing, so frame-rate will not be an issue.



PS: I forgot to mention special effects. I suppose MCFI can be used to keep the cost down, but still..

thank you