Well, I am very disappointed that after approximately 4 years my Pioneer ELite 50" Pro-1120HD plasma died.

Root cause of failure is " Y-Drive Board Assy failure".....Part # AWV-2082.

Total cost to repair Plasma and get back up and running is $550.75. I tried calling Pioneer USA Customer Service and was told the TV was out of warranty (2 years).

I am completely disappointed and unsatisfied with this type of costly failure to a 50" plasma TV that I bought for almost $6K in 2005. I own tons of Pioneer products and have been a loyal customer for over 25 years.

It is clear that Pioneer no longer cares about the Plasma market as they will no longer be making Plasma screens from what I have gathered. Very unfortunate as I felt they had the best picture by far. But with this type of service I will gladly find an alternative for my next Plasma purchase that will provide a better warranty. With the prices having dropped so much over the last 4 years I think I might just scrap this one and put the repair cost funds towards a bigger, better 1080p product even though the picture was flawless 'til the day it died.

Any suggestions? Wise remarks need not respond.

Sorry, your complaint is without merit in my opinion. *shrug* The warranty was 2 years. Not 3, not 4, not 25. Electronics go bad. That's how it is.

"You take a risk every day. You take a risk waking up, crossing the street, and sticking your face in a fan."

I am as dumb as a bag of broken hammers, so hopefully my response will not be construed as "wise". ;)

"even though the picture was flawless 'til the day it died."

I think you just answered your own question....for a $550+ investment...
you would be bringing back to life,one of the better,if not the best,PQ Plasma out there...
For me,it would be a no brainer .

How about scavenging the part, from ebay, craigslist, another defective unit etc. To reduce the repair cost? Of course it depends on how much of the cost is parts and how much labour.

Is this post for real? You're mad because an electronic item failed which has been out of warranty for 2 years and you blame the manufacturer? WTF! If you want to talk about mad, I paid nearly $2400 delivered for my 500M and now the price is $2000 delivered only 1.5 weeks later. That's something to be pissed about.

$ years old and died...sorry to read that.
I wouldn't waste money fixing it. Today's modern plasmas are superior, even those just under $1000 for a 50" model.

Can I here ya say "Oh Yeah" !! Your part is $170 out the door. Buy it while ya can. Click below

<<< Click Here >>> (http://cgi.ebay.com/AWV2082-A-Y-Drive-Assy-For-Pioneer-TV-ANP2060-C_W0QQitemZ180322650412QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0 ?hash=item29fc11492c&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116)

I wonder how hard that is to replace. Probably take the repair center 15 Minutes and they would charge like $200 :(

Is this post for real? You're mad because an electronic item failed which has been out of warranty for 2 years failed and you blame the manufacturer? WTF! If you want to talk about mad, I paid nearly $2400 delivered for my 500M and now the price is $2000 delivered only 1.5 weeks later. That's something to be pissed about.

If I spent $6000 on a display and it only lasted 4 yrs until a major malfunction occured, I'd be POed too....ie a set costing that much should last a very long time imho...

holy crap, complex electronics BREAK???
that's just crazy talk, everything i've ever bought still works like the day i bought it :rolleyes:

Any suggestions?

Yes.

Next time you make a $6000 purchase, consider an extended warranty.

what's with the sense of entitlement? things break, even expensive things. you own the tv, not pioneer.

Yes.

Next time you make a $6000 purchase, consider an extended warranty.
Bingo!

what's with the sense of entitlement? things break, even expensive things. you own the tv, not pioneer.
Indeed TVs break, sometimes just out of warranty, let alone 2 years after warranty.

Some people think that an expensive TV = will last many years.
No, an expensive TV = high-end technology, with no guarantee how long it will last, other than it will be repaired or replacing during the warranty period.

If I spent $6000 on a display and it only lasted 4 yrs until a major malfunction occured, I'd be POed too....ie a set costing that much should last a very long time imho...


I paid nearly $30 grand for my mercedes, I guess it better last me forever!

I hope I can give you some understanding with your situation with my post...by my 5080 dumped on me at 16 months. 4 months out of warranty and pio was not all that supportive as well. I decided to do bunch of research (7/2 blink code) and tried some parts ... y board included. After not fixing it, i had no chocie but to call out a repair guy and at 80.00...told me it was my x board (jeesh, took all of 4 minutes :)). As it stands, I got a y board I gotta decided to return ( may keep for a spare) and order the x board. Two choices. Swap them out ourself or pay the repair bill. If your anywhere close to my 5080, it's a easy repair to do yourself. However, I understand your pain. 6k is a lot and I too would expect more, but things happen. To be honest, I was REALLY po'd when mine went down, but understand things happen. Sometimes ya gotta vent...
When I searched my parts, shopjimmy and discount merchant came up. You can also buy your part direct form Pio.

I paid nearly $30 grand for my mercedes, I guess it better last me forever!

Apples and oranges my friend...I guess next it'll be acceptable to replace ones fridge or stove every 4 yrs. Old CRT sets used to last ages before dying.

I paid nearly $30 grand for my mercedes, I guess it better last me forever!Well the car will last forever, but the expensive electronics have a tendency to develop problems. Being a BMW enthusiast and racer and instructor i see lots of electrical and electronic failures on people's expensive new cars. The more complex or high end they are, the more likely they are to fail. Most of the BMWs in the dealer's service bays are there for an electronic problem. In my industry (Electrical Wholesale) a 2% to 5% failure rate on electronic ballasts and trip units and contactors and dimmers etc is the norm. It didn't used to be like this 20 years ago - such is the way of modern electronics. That Pioneer board probably got knocked out by a 25 cent capacitor that blew.

That Pioneer board probably got knocked out by a 25 cent capacitor that blew.

That's exactly what the repair guy said about my x board!

Apples and oranges my friend...I guess next it'll be acceptable to replace ones fridge or stove every 4 yrs. Old CRT sets used to last ages before dying.
You think appliances last a long time anymore?:rolleyes: :(
We have had several out of warranty repairs on pretty good appliances that we take good care of, over the last several years.
Our local dealer said the newer electronic control panels that didn't used to exist are what usually fail, and the appliances are not lasting as long as they used to.
They only have one year warranties. Is it acceptable? No, but the only option is buy an ext. warranty.

I've had other appliances both mechanical and electronic that outlasted their usual lifespan by 2-4 times. Average it out man!

You think appliances last a long time anymore?:rolleyes: :(
We have had several out of warranty repairs on pretty good appliances that we take good care of, over the last several years.
Our local dealer said the newer electronic control panels that didn't used to exist are what usually fail, and the appliances are not lasting as long as they used to.
They only have one year warranties. Is it acceptable? No, but the only option is buy an ext. warranty.

I hear ya... it's sad that stuff just keeps getting shoddier and more cheaply built as time goes on. I have a 1947 fresh'n Aire fan that I got from my mom when she passed that she got from her mom and it's run like a top for over 62 years and I've run it pretty much 24/7 for over 10 years...Its Bakelite blades make a pleasing little purr that remind me of my youth at my grandparents farm. Built like a tank and it totally amazes me that the brushes haven't given out...

Apples and oranges my friend...I guess next it'll be acceptable to replace ones fridge or stove every 4 yrs. Old CRT sets used to last ages before dying.

And some people had CRTs that broke too, just like this one.

Well the car will last forever, but the expensive electronics have a tendency to develop problems. Being a BMW enthusiast and racer and instructor i see lots of electrical and electronic failures on people's expensive new cars. The more complex or high end they are, the more likely they are to fail. Most of the BMWs in the dealer's service bays are there for an electronic problem. In my industry (Electrical Wholesale) a 2% to 5% failure rate on electronic ballasts and trip units and contactors and dimmers etc is the norm. It didn't used to be like this 20 years ago - such is the way of modern electronics. That Pioneer board probably got knocked out by a 25 cent capacitor that blew.

Agreed, everything electrical seems to be lighter/thinner/smaller. I see this with transformers, diodes, scr's, and pc boards in large rectifiers and battery chargers I sell and service.
Allegedly all of these changes are improvements yet all we are seeing with these smaller components is a significantly shortened life due to the fact that they cannot dissipate heat. Some these things are still in service at 40 years, no joke! But the newer ones make think of the term "planned obsolescence" we will be lucky to get 3-7 years out of the newer and "better" stuff.

I would love to have panel that is only 1" thick but I always be thinking how they made it that thin and what vital components did they shrink to do it.

P.S. Randy, who makes the best ballasts? I'm getting sick of replacing them in my garage and shop.

Well, I am very disappointed that after approximately 4 years my Pioneer ELite 50" Pro-1120HD plasma died.

Root cause of failure is " Y-Drive Board Assy failure".....Part # AWV-2082.

Total cost to repair Plasma and get back up and running is $550.75. I tried calling Pioneer USA Customer Service and was told the TV was out of warranty (2 years).

I am completely disappointed and unsatisfied with this type of costly failure to a 50" plasma TV that I bought for almost $6K in 2005. I own tons of Pioneer products and have been a loyal customer for over 25 years.

It is clear that Pioneer no longer cares about the Plasma market as they will no longer be making Plasma screens from what I have gathered. Very unfortunate as I felt they had the best picture by far. But with this type of service I will gladly find an alternative for my next Plasma purchase that will provide a better warranty. With the prices having dropped so much over the last 4 years I think I might just scrap this one and put the repair cost funds towards a bigger, better 1080p product even though the picture was flawless 'til the day it died.

Any suggestions? Wise remarks need not respond.

Best bet is Cleveland Plasma's post. Get the new drive and if you're a DIY, put it in yourself. If not, call the tech. Next time you plunk down $6,000 on a TV, I'd advise you to also get an EW from CPS or MAC.

PS: I wish you would go over to the "Should I get an Extended Warranty?" thread and post your experiences. Might save others from the same grief as you.

I paid nearly $30 grand for my mercedes, I guess it better last me forever!

You got off cheap.:cool:

I don't know much about that model but you can get a Panasonic 50S1 for a grand and it will probably be better. I don't think I could ever spend 6 grand on a tv, I'm too frugal. Hehe

I gotta take the OP's side. I'll be pissed if my 1130 died within 4-5 yrs. I understand electronics break eventually but not in that "short period", especially at $6K price tag.

For those who think it's unreasonable, would you fork out $6k today knowing that your plasma won't last more than 4 yrs? If you do, would you let me share your trust fund :D

How about scavenging the part, from ebay, craigslist, another defective unit etc. To reduce the repair cost? Of course it depends on how much of the cost is parts and how much labour.I have a Panasonic CT-36HL42 that died a couple of years ago because of a $2 fuse. A local TV repair shop gave me a phone estimate of nearly $500 :eek: to fix the TV.

This gave rise to the purchase of my PRO-150FD. :)

After a couple of years with gathering dust in the basement, I got pro-active and went to fixya's (http://www.fixya.com/) web site, which accurately diagnosed the problem with my TV. Sure enough replacing the fuse resolved the problem and this 220 lb. beast is now operating fine once again.

While I sympathize with the OP's frustration regarding the all-too-frequent incidence of failures for very expensive modern day A/V components, in this case Pioneer is not at fault. WYSIWYG ;)

I'm far from being a Pioneer electronics fan, but even I think that expecting Pioneer to do something 4 years into ownership is a bit over the top, unless there was a known problem with this part in these particular sets and Pioneer had extended the warranty.

Most of my Pioneer stuff has died shortly after the warranty expired. Pioneer is the only manufacturer I have owned whose products get replaced due to break down rather than being obsolete. Maybe just my bad luck, but Pioneer seems to now be relegated to the car stereo market, where they always did make a pretty good product.

Maybe their withdrawl from other markets is due to others having a similar experience to ours.

Hope you get a reasonably priced part and your set back to running again for awhile. If you do, and it dies again, it's probably time for another set.

I'm far from being a Pioneer electronics fan, but even I think that expecting Pioneer to do something 4 years into ownership is a bit over the top, unless there was a known problem with this part in these particular sets and Pioneer had extended the warranty.

Most of my Pioneer stuff has died shortly after the warranty expired. Pioneer is the only manufacturer I have owned whose products get replaced due to break down rather than being obsolete. Maybe just my bad luck, but Pioneer seems to now be relegated to the car stereo market, where they always did make a pretty good product.

Maybe their withdrawl from other markets is due to others having a similar experience to ours.


Pioneer's exit from the display market had nothing to do w/the reliability of their products. Actually, Pioneer is not quite out of the display market as you can still buy one. Pioneer has said it will offer display support for 7 years. Their displays are sought after items and pricing reflects it. Pioneer displays have been awarded the best display on the planet for 3 straight years.

Even a Lexus can break down, and if you've had 4 years of great service already, then all you can say is "you shoulda got the EW".

I'm far from being a Pioneer electronics fan, but even I think that expecting Pioneer to do something 4 years into ownership is a bit over the top, unless there was a known problem with this part in these particular sets and Pioneer had extended the warranty.

Most of my Pioneer stuff has died shortly after the warranty expired. Pioneer is the only manufacturer I have owned whose products get replaced due to break down rather than being obsolete. Maybe just my bad luck, but Pioneer seems to now be relegated to the car stereo market, where they always did make a pretty good product.

Maybe their withdrawl from other markets is due to others having a similar experience to ours.

Hope you get a reasonably priced part and your set back to running again for awhile. If you do, and it dies again, it's probably time for another set.


My goodness, Some people will look for any reason to down pioneer.

Pioneer may have withdrawed from the TV market because of failures??? Are you even being serious??


I am an Electronics manufacturing Engineer with General Electric, Its what I do for a living an I know Electronics Board manufacturing processes from start to finish.
We build hundreds of different PC Boards,Drivers,embedded computers,etc.

And I can tell you that if there is one certainty, Its that ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS FAIL. It just happens and thats the way it is.
You can try your best to prevent it, but there will always be a percentage of failures.
You have to remember that most of todays electronic Boards contain thousands of super small fine pitch components. And if 1 of them goes bad, It can cause the entire board to not function anymore.

We have the best ESD (electro-static-discharge) protection in the buisness, the best SixSigma/lean manufacturing processes in place, and some extremely complex visual and electrical testing machines and testing stations in the electronics buisness. Yet We still get Returns from customers.
Thats just the way it is.

Failures happen.
And with so many products switching to Lead-Free solder, It is going to cause even more failures. Tin/Lead solder simply creates a better electronic bond than Lead free does. And Lead free Solder requires the electronics to have to go thru much more heat than with Tin/Lead.


Also, To the OP,
If you decide to switch the board out yourself please make sure you are grounded when touching the Board or any other board inside the TV.
Electro-static damage is one of the main causes of electronic failures. And it might not damage the electronics immedialty, The problem caused by ESD can be prograssive and not cause a problem until some time goes by.
heres a video on ElectroStaticDischarge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B91Wcd6I-3o&feature=related)

Well, I am very disappointed that after approximately 4 years my Pioneer ELite 50" Pro-1120HD plasma died.

Root cause of failure is " Y-Drive Board Assy failure".....Part # AWV-2082.

Total cost to repair Plasma and get back up and running is $550.75. I tried calling Pioneer USA Customer Service and was told the TV was out of warranty (2 years).

I am completely disappointed and unsatisfied with this type of costly failure to a 50" plasma TV that I bought for almost $6K in 2005. I own tons of Pioneer products and have been a loyal customer for over 25 years.

It is clear that Pioneer no longer cares about the Plasma market as they will no longer be making Plasma screens from what I have gathered. Very unfortunate as I felt they had the best picture by far. But with this type of service I will gladly find an alternative for my next Plasma purchase that will provide a better warranty. With the prices having dropped so much over the last 4 years I think I might just scrap this one and put the repair cost funds towards a bigger, better 1080p product even though the picture was flawless 'til the day it died.

Any suggestions? Wise remarks need not respond.

I'm sorry to hear about your display, but as others have pointed out, electronics do fail and this happens to all brands. I echo the sentiments of another poster who mentioned Extended Warranties. I have purchased EW's and they have saved me numerous repairs. Every time somebody asks about purchasing one the "stat freaks" and conspiracy wing nuts come out of the woodwork about it being a rip off. These skewed figures they toss out regarding failure rates don't reflect the current situation in the industry. Panel rate failures mean little when your module fails. It means even less when it happens to you.

Electronic components are being required to do more in modern displays, and the companies are aware of this and decreasing their coverage in the standard warranty. Standard warranties will cover less in the future.

It definitely sucks for a tv you paid 6k to break down but lets face it, its not dead, its a few hundred dollars to fix.

I cannot believe what i'm reading...
First of all, this kind of stuff happens to Plasma, LCD's, CRT's whatever....
What is happening is that your plasma needs a little maintenance that's all.
If you buy a Ferrari and you want it to last if you don't replace the parts that wear it will reach a point that will stop.

What i'm trying to tell you is that you must be prepared for this kind of things.
A Pioneer Plasma owner in normal circumstances doesn't mind to replace such part, because these plasmas are really special, it's not a Samsung or a Sony that you buy in a Hyper Market.

However there is always the problem of buying High End stuff and not be prepared with the cash to repair it.

In this case go for a more comercial LCD, no ofense.

And some people had CRTs that broke too, just like this one.My $1,200 top-of-the-line 1990 Sony Tube TV blew it's solid state power supply board a year after the factory warranty expired but luckily i bought the extended warranty and it was repaired. Then about a year after that some sort of controller board failed and it was also fixed under the EW. That was twenty years ago when electronics were simpler and were built better. Yet that TV suffered two different failures. Modern electronics are even worse - they're computer-designed to be just good enough. This is why i've always recommended getting an EW on such an expensive purchase over the years, but as the prices of a new TV come down i don't feel that an EW is as important as they used to be say 3-5 years ago. My 2005 42PX50U was $3,500, but the current version of that TV (42X1) sells for about literally 1/5th that amount only four years later.

I also believe manufacturers are engaging in built-in obsolescence. They don't want a TV to last 10 or 20 years any more - they'd rather make you buy a replacement sooner than that. It used to be a badge of honor for a TV maker to build a TV that would last 20 years, but now there's no need or incentive to build a long-lasting TV.

I paid nearly $30 grand for my mercedes, I guess it better last me forever!I thought that four years is roughly equivalent to "forever" with those.

Hi All,

In the European Union Countries, there is such a thing as the "Sale Of Goods Act" which companies desperately hope that people do not know about as this act ensures that even though a product may be out of the manufacturers or sellers warranty, if a product is not performing correctly, has broken down, or has failed within a certain time such a product should be reasonably expected to last, then the consumer has the right to ask for a repair or replacement - period. TV's are generally expected to last at least 6 years under this act and one has full recourse should something happen.

Surely, in the good Ol' USA where companies bend over backwards to please the customer and where the customer is king and with laws to ensure that the customers always get looked after fully, you guys should have something similar? You guys make as mad as hell with the preferential pricing you get and green with envy at the generally superb customer & after sales service you have been so rottenly spoilt with! In the UK, normally we truly get shafted deep and proper and that is without lubrication!


Bazzy!

It used to be a badge of honor for a TV maker to build a TV that would last 20 years, but now there's no need or incentive to build a long-lasting TV

A Sears Silvertone
:cool:

The current generation is used to changing -- pardon me, "upgrading" -- their cellphones and computers every couple of years, so why should expectations about the newfangled HD displays be any different?

The status/perceived value of new tech is so potent that many here at AVS are on their third or fourth plasma -- a consumer product that didn't exist ten years ago. Mentioning that TVs have lasted/should last twenty years in this climate is like tossing sardines in with the peanut butter.

The current generation is used to changing -- pardon me, "upgrading" -- their cellphones and computers every couple of years, so why should expectations about the newfangled HD displays be any different?

The status/perceived value of new tech is so potent that many here at AVS are on their third or fourth plasma -- a consumer product that didn't exist ten years ago. Mentioning that TVs have lasted/should last twenty years in this climate is like tossing sardines in with the peanut butter.

Hmm I disagree. Upgrading is a choice. It shouldn't be forced because things break prematurely.

Hey Bazzy you work for the government right? Maybe in tax department...LOOL

My friend f... off with those kind of laws, a product has 2 years or extended warranty and finish, over.

If you had a company i would like to know what you do. Take care of a client product for 6 years...PLEAASEE!!!

I imagine the unlucky guys face when you buy something in any store....eheheeheehe Get a hype.

Hey Bazzy you work for the government right? Maybe in tax department...LOOL

My friend f... off with those kind of laws, a product has 2 years or extended warranty and finish, over.

If you had a company i would like to know what you do. Take care of a client product for 6 years...PLEAASEE!!!

I imagine the unlucky guys face when you buy something in any store....eheheeheehe Get a hype.


Hi!

Me? A Government worker? Give me some credit old chap - I prefer to remain within the Human Race!

No seriously, in the European Union, the law dictates that each member Country must follow the rules and guidelines as the Union has set out and then implement them accordingly within national laws and Acts (Bills I believe you call them in the USA). So, In the UK, these EU rules are set out in the UK "Sale of Good Act" which states that a TV should be reasonably expected to last at least 6 years from date of purchase - if not, then the seller or manufacturer must either repair or replace within that period.

Obviously manufacturers & sellers both hate it as they have no choice but to follow the law and they lose massive profits from extended warranties. That is the law though and if & when challenged, they usually soon back down but they will never inform you of it and when you try to initially claim, they try to fob one off as best they can but as soon as you inform them of the law and they know you know what the hell you are talking about, they will very quietly settle! Their biggest weapon is, laziness and ignorance on behalf of the consumer and trying their very utmost to sell extended warranties at point of sale.

I bought a Pioneer Kuro with a free 5 year warranty thrown in but would have still done so if it was not offered knowing full well that with or without any extended warranty, I am still covered by the Sale of Goods Act for at least 6 years.


Bazzy!

Op i have nothing to add except to get a reality check nothing is certain and yes i'd be mad man if my pioneer elite plasma that cost near $4k took a crap.

Fix it and move on or risk getting a new set with worse Picture Quality, Unless you're lucky to find a "upgrade" pioneer regardless if its the 5020 (50" non elite) or the elite series (they can range from $2k to 3k on average)

im so sorry but i really cant add anything positive

Is this post for real? You're mad because an electronic item failed which has been out of warranty for 2 years and you blame the manufacturer? WTF! If you want to talk about mad, I paid nearly $2400 delivered for my 500M and now the price is $2000 delivered only 1.5 weeks later. That's something to be pissed about.

I paid nearly $30 grand for my mercedes, I guess it better last me forever!

Hey Bazzy

Sorry, no ofense. Sorry by my "little strong" commentary, but since i don't agree with some politics, sometimes i freak out...LOOOL

But we have to admit that 6 years is a long time my friend. If you we're a manufacturer it was better to close the doors than do that.

You see i love the idea that the consumer should be protected but if there is no balance and control in that situation can you imagine what will happen....

Cheers

They no longer care because they won't give you a free repair for an out of warranty tv.........

lets see....... how many brands do that.........

Hi!

Me? A Government worker? Give me some credit old chap - I prefer to remain within the Human Race!

No seriously, in the European Union, the law dictates that each member Country must follow the rules and guidelines as the Union has set out and then implement them accordingly within national laws and Acts (Bills I believe you call them in the USA). So, In the UK, these EU rules are set out in the UK "Sale of Good Act" which states that a TV should be reasonably expected to last at least 6 years from date of purchase - if not, then the seller or manufacturer must either repair or replace within that period.

Obviously manufacturers & sellers both hate it as they have no choice but to follow the law and they lose massive profits from extended warranties. That is the law though and if & when challenged, they usually soon back down but they will never inform you of it and when you try to initially claim, they try to fob one off as best they can but as soon as you inform them of the law and they know you know what the hell you are talking about, they will very quietly settle! Their biggest weapon is, laziness and ignorance on behalf of the consumer and trying their very utmost to sell extended warranties at point of sale.

I bought a Pioneer Kuro with a free 5 year warranty thrown in but would have still done so if it was not offered knowing full well that with or without any extended warranty, I am still covered by the Sale of Goods Act for at least 6 years.


Bazzy!

What does the "Sale of God Act" do to the price of the product? I bet with this fine government intervention the price for everything has gone up drastically. You are paying for that government enforced extended warranty whether you want it or not.
Unfortunately, with the current administration we are on a fast track to the same policies.

It is not a $6,000 TV that's trash, it is a $500 (or $160 from eBay) PART that's trash. Fix it and you still have your $6,000 TV. I mean, come on, things break and you repair them. Is this a premature failure? Yes, probably. But could it be an environmental problem that caused it (i.e. bad power (surges, brownouts, spikes, etc.), dust, static, etc.) or a faulty component on an otherwise good part? You're throwing out the baby with the bath water on this one. I understand the frustration but disagree with your overall assessment on your next step. Plunk down the bucks and fix this part. Your TV may well outlast you!

What does the "Sale of God Act" do to the price of the product? I bet with this fine government intervention the price for everything has gone up drastically. You are paying for that government enforced extended warranty whether you want it or not.
Unfortunately, with the current administration we are on a fast track to the same policies.

Hi,

Actually it is very welcome in Europe where we pay extortionate prices & taxes for our products compared to what you guys pay. Add a culture of extremely poor customer service and until recently, very little or few consumer rights, people were getting shoddy products, paying a fortune for them and then not having enough back-up or support for their purchases when things went wrong. Even extended warranty companies got in on the act and charged people a fortune for them and which many of which turned out to be worthless due to the number of clauses and conditions attached to them. In the USA, prices may or may not go up if such a law was introduced there but in Europe, it does not matter an inkling - we have always had high prices enforced upon us by the markets. Give you an example - You can pick up a Pioneer KRP-500A in the USA for $1749. The very same set in the UK has a lowest selling price of $4122 (£2499). Live a few years in our shores and you may have a very different view!

Also, the market was flooded by less than stellar products from China and this legislation was partly to also ensure that brands maintained a decent level of manufacture and quality control for products entering the EU.

Bazzy!

Hi!

Me? A Government worker? Give me some credit old chap - I prefer to remain within the Human Race!

No seriously, in the European Union, the law dictates that each member Country must follow the rules and guidelines as the Union has set out and then implement them accordingly within national laws and Acts (Bills I believe you call them in the USA). So, In the UK, these EU rules are set out in the UK "Sale of Good Act" which states that a TV should be reasonably expected to last at least 6 years from date of purchase - if not, then the seller or manufacturer must either repair or replace within that period.

Obviously manufacturers & sellers both hate it as they have no choice but to follow the law and they lose massive profits from extended warranties. That is the law though and if & when challenged, they usually soon back down but they will never inform you of it and when you try to initially claim, they try to fob one off as best they can but as soon as you inform them of the law and they know you know what the hell you are talking about, they will very quietly settle! Their biggest weapon is, laziness and ignorance on behalf of the consumer and trying their very utmost to sell extended warranties at point of sale.

I bought a Pioneer Kuro with a free 5 year warranty thrown in but would have still done so if it was not offered knowing full well that with or without any extended warranty, I am still covered by the Sale of Goods Act for at least 6 years.


Bazzy!

That is a pretty neat law for EU consumers, but as noted earlier if you dig into it a little more deeply I think you'll find that you're paying for the EW through higher prices whether you want it or not. Over here in the US, we have cheaper prices, no value added tax, and you get to choose from different EW plans from either the Store itself or from independent EW companies like MAC or CPS. So, in the US, if you roll the dice and forego the EW, and you come up snake-eyes like this poor fellow that started this thread, then you pay the piper. He's damn lucky it's not the pdp module as that would've ended the display for good.

there but in Europe, it does not matter an inkling - we have always had high prices enforced upon us by the markets. Give you an example - You can pick up a Pioneer KRP-500A in the USA for $1749. The very same set in the UK has a lowest selling price of $4122 (£2499). Live a few years in our shores and you may have a very different view!

Also, the market was flooded by less than stellar products from China and this legislation was partly to also ensure that brands maintained a decent level of manufacture and quality control for products entering the EU.

Bazzy!
I would disagree that the "markets" forced high prices. To the contrary, regulation and taxation are resulting in higher prices. Free and open markets result in lower prices. I wish more people over hear realized this.

Don't feel bad though, you don't have the market on imported Chinese junk cornered.:):mad:

[QUOTE=kagolu;16896581]To the contrary, regulation and taxation are resulting in higher prices. Free and open markets result in lower prices.


Hi!

This is why your fore-bearers had the vision to get up & leave Europe and start America - They got screwed by the govt with high taxes and extortionate selling prices - over 200 years later, nothing has really changed!! Now, if only you Yanks had decent Bacon & real Beer - I would move in a Flash!


Bazzy!

[QUOTE=kagolu;16896581]To the contrary, regulation and taxation are resulting in higher prices. Free and open markets result in lower prices.


Hi!

This is why your fore-bearers had the vision to get up & leave Europe and start America - They got screwed by the govt with high taxes and extortionate selling prices - over 200 years later, nothing has really changed!! Now, if only you Yanks had decent Bacon & real Beer - I would move in a Flash!


Bazzy!

Try Virginia Smoked, thick cut.

Let us all give the plasma a moment of silence, for 4 years it has served and protected a customers eyes from bad video processing. Although it is gone literally and figuratively it will be remembered for ages as the best of it's time. Never say, never you will meet once again in that place in the sky where all plasmas reside. Peace

[QUOTE=kagolu;16896581]To the contrary, regulation and taxation are resulting in higher prices. Free and open markets result in lower prices.


Hi!

This is why your fore-bearers had the vision to get up & leave Europe and start America - They got screwed by the govt with high taxes and extortionate selling prices - over 200 years later, nothing has really changed!! Now, if only you Yanks had decent Bacon & real Beer - I would move in a Flash!


Bazzy!

And you would be welcome, my wife is Euro transplant. Your unfortunately right about our beer, fortunately you could still get Guiness, Bass etc., but you should plan a bacon tasting trip through the South East, like Cajieboy said the Virgina stuff among others is great.(Kagolu starts to think of bacon and beer, starts to drool) :)

[QUOTE=Bazzy;16896775]

And you would be welcome, my wife is Euro transplant. Your unfortunately right about our beer, fortunately you could still get Guiness, Bass etc., but you should plan a bacon tasting trip through the South East, like Cajieboy said the Virgina stuff among others is great.(Kagolu starts to think of bacon and beer, starts to drool) :)

My wife is a Euro transplant too. She's British, born in the Lake District and raised in Bedford, England.

[QUOTE=kagolu;16896896]

My wife is a Euro transplant too. She's British, born in the Lake District and raised in Bedford, England.

Mine is form Poland. I love Pierogis!!

what's with the sense of entitlement? things break, even expensive things. you own the tv, not pioneer.

There is no sense of entitlement. When you purchase a $6000 television, you should have a reasonable expectation of quality that it will last longer than 4 years.

No one in their right mind would buy one if they were told on the day of purchase it would only last 4 years.

I'd be ticked off too.

There is no sense of entitlement. When you purchase a $6000 television, you should have a reasonable expectation of quality that it will last longer than 4 years.

No one in their right mind would buy one if they were told on the day of purchase it would only last 4 years.

I'd be ticked off too.

well, unless ALL of them are dying after 4 years (which, given the paucity of threads like this one, i'm going to guess they aren't), that "reasonable expectation" has been fulfilled...

things break... it's a fact of life... i feel bad for the op (well, not too bad, since he really needs to man up and deal with it), but it's the way it is...

it comes with a warrantee...
the user has an option to buy an extended warrantee...
they chose not to, gambling the cost of the warrantee against the cost of the display (a reasonable gamble, imo)...
that gamble didn't pay off... c'est dommage...

im glad this happened to op and not some one else.

There is no sense of entitlement. When you purchase a $6000 television, you should have a reasonable expectation of quality that it will last longer than 4 years.

No one in their right mind would buy one if they were told on the day of purchase it would only last 4 years.

I'd be ticked off too.
Sure, who wouldn't. However, the vast majority of Pioneer plasmas will last for many years. They can't guarantee all of them will last for so many # of years. By reading the warranty, effectively Pioneer (in this case) is saying it will run for two years for no extra $; after that it would cost extra to fix it.

It seems like every Tom, Dick or Harry believes this guy is an absolute jerk for buying a top of the line plasma & expecting it to last for more than 4 years. Is it because it was a mighty Pioneer plasma that bit the dust? I wonder what this thread would look like if it was a Samsung that went down. Good luck with your repair decision.

Am I the only person here old enough to remember tube TVs (I mean vacuum tubes, not solid state)? I distinctly remember two of them we had when I was a kid: A Packard-Bell black & white "portable", and an Admiral color. The Admiral was one of the first color sets with a more-or-less-rectangular picture tube and "Rare Earth Phosphors". Oh the trips to Thrifty Drug Store with my dad to check & replace tubes that blew out constantly in those TVs! I loved those trips because I usually got a nickel ice cream cone out of the deal. Anyway tubes blew out ALL THE TIME and nobody thought it was anything but normal. Also, the mechanical tuners required constant application of "tuner cleaner" spray.

The Admiral color TV was particularly cursed in that, in the years we had it (10?), it went through picture tubes constantly. I mean I don't think a picture tube ever lasted more than 2 years in that set. The TV repairman would come out and look at it and say "picture tube again" and we'd be out whatever it was, probably $200, which would have been a fortune then, like 30%-40% of the original cost of the set. And a year or two later, it would blow out again. It was always one of the three colors that would go out, like no blue, then no red, then no green. Lather rinse repeat.

So nobody can tell me that today's TVs are inherently less reliable. On average I bet they're more reliable, not less.

I'm just saying. :D

Pioneer's exit from the display market had nothing to do w/the reliability of their products. Actually, Pioneer is not quite out of the display market as you can still buy one. Pioneer has said it will offer display support for 7 years. Their displays are sought after items and pricing reflects it. Pioneer displays have been awarded the best display on the planet for 3 straight years.

Even a Lexus can break down, and if you've had 4 years of great service already, then all you can say is "you shoulda got the EW".Seven years is a long time and who knows what will happen between now & then?

There is one thing that I know for sure, which is I put my money where my MOUTH is and I may be doing so again, perhaps as soon again as tonight! :) (stay tuned)

After all, my PRO-150FD (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/EliteTVs/ci.PRO-151FD.Kuro), PS3, SC-07 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/AV-Receivers/EliteReceivers/ci.SC-27.Kuro) and Time Warner SA-8300HDC :rolleyes: need a 7.1 speaker package in order to enhance their performance with. :D

stooby, nope. that pioneer plasma really isn't all that "mighty" to begin with...

it's because he posted an irrational screed, vowing never to buy from a company again, because something he owned broke...

no doubt, he expected all kinds of sympathy...

fortunately, he didn't get it...

brand isn't relevant when it comes to pointing out when someone is being a whiner...

Am I the only person here old enough to remember tube TVs (I mean vacuum tubes, not solid state)? I distinctly remember two of them we had when I was a kid: A Packard-Bell black & white "portable", and an Admiral color. The Admiral was one of the first color sets with a more-or-less-rectangular picture tube and "Rare Earth Phosphors". Oh the trips to Thrifty Drug Store with my dad to check & replace tubes that blew out constantly in those TVs! I loved those trips because I usually got a nickel ice cream cone out of the deal. Anyway tubes blew out ALL THE TIME and nobody thought it was anything but normal. Also, the mechanical tuners required constant application of "tuner cleaner" spray.

The Admiral color TV was particularly cursed in that, in the years we had it (10?), it went through picture tubes constantly. I mean I don't think a picture tube ever lasted more than 2 years in that set. The TV repairman would come out and look at it and say "picture tube again" and we'd be out whatever it was, probably $200, which would have been a fortune then, like 30%-40% of the original cost of the set. And a year or two later, it would blow out again. It was always one of the three colors that would go out, like no blue, then no red, then no green. Lather rinse repeat.

So nobody can tell me that today's TVs are inherently less reliable. On average I bet they're more reliable, not less.

I'm just saying. :D

oh i remember those days... bringing the tubes to the drug store was always a bit of an apprehensive time, because if it was an "expensive" one, that meant we didn't have tv for a bit...

the good old days weren't always as good as people would like to remember them... :)

oh i remember those days... bringing the tubes to the drug store was always a bit of an apprehensive time, because if it was an "expensive" one, that meant we didn't have tv for a bit...

Yes! I remember when the needed replacement tube would be more expensive than we could afford that week, so no TV for a while.

yup. those were always VERY sad trips home after one of those tests... :(

Seven years is a long time and who knows what will happen between now & then?

There is one thing that I know for sure, which is I put my money where my MOUTH is and I may be doing so again, perhaps as soon again as tonight! :) (stay tuned)

After all, my PRO-150FD (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/EliteTVs/ci.PRO-151FD.Kuro), PS3, SC-07 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/AV-Receivers/EliteReceivers/ci.SC-27.Kuro) and Time Warner SA-8300HDC :rolleyes: need a 7.1 speaker package in order to enhance their performance with. :D

Hey, that's great! Let us know what speaker system you decided on. To me, it's way harder picking out speakers than displays. Lot's of good choices.

Yeah, 7 years is a long time. According to Robert at VE, Pioneer is planning to re-enter the display market perhaps as soon as 2011, and thinks they are working on OLED. Man, wouldn't that be a hoot!:D

And some people had CRTs that broke too, just like this one.

I had a 1991 model Sony KV-32XBR55 tube-based TV. Was defective at delivery and an image processing chip had to be changed. Four years later the degaussing circuit blew. Cost me $200 for a transistor and thermistor and labor. Four years after that the power supply blew. Got rid of it. 180lbs of junk.

I then bought my first plasma, a PDP-503CMX. Great unit. I sold it to upgrade to a HDMI compatible plasma a year ago. Worked flawlessly.

This weekend I bought a PRO-151FD (to be delivered in two weeks) from a local authorized dealer. I skipped their $800 extended warranty, but you can bet I will be purchasing a more reasonable third party warranty.

It seems like every Tom, Dick or Harry believes this guy is an absolute jerk for buying a top of the line plasma & expecting it to last for more than 4 years. Is it because it was a mighty Pioneer plasma that bit the dust? I wonder what this thread would look like if it was a Samsung that went down. Good luck with your repair decision.

How about those 2 year old Panasonics that are dying? Of course, Panasonic is stepping up and fixing them.

Seven years is a long time and who knows what will happen between now & then?

I really hope Pioneer lasts another 7 years. Some people don't think so. If they go under, parts and repair responsibility will be in question (better have that extended warranty).

I hope no one winds up with a 5 year extended warranty and have their PDP fail in year 2 with no Pioneer, and the extended warranty company refuses to cover, claiming they cover in years 3, 4, and 5. In that situation, I guess you wait to year three to call the problem in.

I really hope Pioneer lasts another 7 years. Some people don't think so. If they go under, parts and repair responsibility will be in question (better have that extended warranty).

I hope no one winds up with a 5 year extended warranty and have their PDP fail in year 2 with no Pioneer, and the extended warranty company refuses to cover, claiming they cover in years 3, 4, and 5. In that situation, I guess you wait to year three to call the problem in.

That's a lot of "what if's"...Interesting Doom & Gloom scenario. Let me create another.. North Korea gets antsy & super crazy and decides to take out South Korea's industry along w/Japan's industry in one fell swoop. Kaboooom! No Samsung, no Sony, no Sharp, no Panasonic. Geez, you better not be owning one of those displays if that happens!:D

I had a 31" RCA Tube SDTV. This was in the 90's. Got a Extended Warranty on it and it broke down twice while it was covered, and after the 2nd time being fixed it was problem free for quite a few years before I got rid of it for my first HDTV. Now I'm on my second HDTV.

I thought most TV warranty's these days were 1 year, with Pioneer having the longer 2 year Warranty. $6,000 is a lot of a HDTV, and myself would have paid for a extended warranty as it would have been cheaper then buying a new one if it blew after 2 years. You take the Gamble and maybe it will and maybe it won't pay off to not get one. You paid the early adoption FEE. When I got my first HDTV, it was a 42" CRT Rear projection and still cost me $1800, but it was far, far cheaper then the LCD and Plasma displays, even the much cheaper EDTV Plasma's. I don't even think 1080P was even around at that time. I didn't get one with my Panasonic Plasma or even my last HDTV. It paid off last time, and I hope it does this time, though prices have dropped so much that in 4 years if it dies, well it gives me a excuse to buy a new HDTV with a even better picture and features. Prices and HDTV quality have dropped and gotten better by a mile in such a short time HDTV's have been around.

If it was my Pioneer that died, I'd figured it did pretty good with 4 years, being such a nice display, I'd have no problem buying that ebay board for cheap and installing it myself. If it works again I'd figured I got off CHEAP!!! Cheaper then the cost of what a extended warranty would have cost and the gamble would have kind of paid off.

I do have a few memory's of the tube days, but it was winding down when I was young. Those things were always blowing out. I do still remember the displays and all the different tubes you could buy. I have better memory's of the 8-track tape, even though I always wondered why when you could only jump to 4 different tracks.

P.S. Randy, who makes the best ballasts? I'm getting sick of replacing them in my garage and shop.Advance makes the best 4ft electronic T8 ballasts. But we still see about a 1% failure rate :(

My goodness, Some people will look for any reason to down pioneer.

Pioneer may have withdrawed from the TV market because of failures??? Are you even being serious??


I am an Electronics manufacturing Engineer with General Electric, Its what I do for a living an I know Electronics Board manufacturing processes from start to finish.
We build hundreds of different PC Boards,Drivers,embedded computers,etc.

And I can tell you that if there is one certainty, Its that ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS FAIL. It just happens and thats the way it is.
You can try your best to prevent it, but there will always be a percentage of failures.
You have to remember that most of todays electronic Boards contain thousands of super small fine pitch components. And if 1 of them goes bad, It can cause the entire board to not function anymore.

We have the best ESD (electro-static-discharge) protection in the buisness, the best SixSigma/lean manufacturing processes in place, and some extremely complex visual and electrical testing machines and testing stations in the electronics buisness. Yet We still get Returns from customers.
Thats just the way it is.

Failures happen.
And with so many products switching to Lead-Free solder, It is going to cause even more failures. Tin/Lead solder simply creates a better electronic bond than Lead free does. And Lead free Solder requires the electronics to have to go thru much more heat than with Tin/Lead.


Also, To the OP,
If you decide to switch the board out yourself please make sure you are grounded when touching the Board or any other board inside the TV.
Electro-static damage is one of the main causes of electronic failures. And it might not damage the electronics immedialty, The problem caused by ESD can be prograssive and not cause a problem until some time goes by.
heres a video on ElectroStaticDischarge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B91Wcd6I-3o&feature=related)

Thanks, Good post and Great Video. I recently had brief Electro Magnetic Inferference (EMI) based on Anynet+ between my Blu-ray player and HDTV. It didn't effect either one adversely, yet its good to know what causes EMI or ESD. I have the 4 year extended warrant on my set, yet I feel for anyone who spent 6K on a TV and it died.

That's a lot of "what if's"...Interesting Doom & Gloom scenario. Let me create another.. North Korea gets antsy & super crazy and decides to take out South Korea's industry along w/Japan's industry in one fell swoop. Kaboooom! No Samsung, no Sony, no Sharp, no Panasonic. Geez, you better not be owning one of those displays if that happens!:D

LOL FUNNY ! As long as there is AC power in the U.S., intellegent repair specialist and electronics parts, I'll be O.K. with my Samsung and Sony products (Despite North Korea's Agression).

Advance makes the best 4ft electronic T8 ballasts. But we still see about a 1% failure rate :(

Thanks for info.:)

It seems like every Tom, Dick or Harry believes this guy is an absolute jerk for buying a top of the line plasma & expecting it to last for more than 4 years. Is it because it was a mighty Pioneer plasma that bit the dust? I wonder what this thread would look like if it was a Samsung that went down. Good luck with your repair decision.

No, Most of us think he's a jerk for the way he carried on. Things break regardless of cost. It just happed to break when it was inopportune for the OP. Too bad.

But, you don't go on a rand damning every product made by a company because a $150 board needs to be replaced. Odds are it might only need a couple of dollars of parts to repair the board, but that is pretty hard to do today. If it was a common problem there would be lots of posts on the topic and odds are fixes posted too. I paid about $3000 for the first Directv HD enabled RCA F38310 years ago. 3 years later they were dieing by the bus load. Bad power supply. But enough of them died that it was discovered that 2 bad caps were the problem and for $.50 we all fixed our own if we choose to, but that isn't the case here. This isn't a mass death. It's one guy's set dieing and he's whining about it. Sorry, too bad, Pioneer is not to blame, and basically it's his problem, he needs to deal with it.

WHAT?!!! $1749 USD for a Pioneer KRP-500A in USA? I paid 3000 Euros for mine 15 days ago.
It's not possible, i mean i guess it's not possible because they don't have this model.
Only Europe and Japan has it, they have the 500M but that's just the screen.
And the "M" Series are mostly for companies that use computers etc...
It's not appropriate for cinema.

That's the plan and when pioneer is back in flat screen deal they will be the top dogs again.

Hey, that's great! Let us know what speaker system you decided on. To me, it's way harder picking out speakers than displays. Lot's of good choices.

Yeah, 7 years is a long time. According to Robert at VE, Pioneer is planning to re-enter the display market perhaps as soon as 2011, and thinks they are working on OLED. Man, wouldn't that be a hoot!:D

Matt i too have the Rca f38310 mine has had weird "glitches" where it would and would not work. i stop using it during 2007, we abused it as it would spend endless days and nights on.

No, Most of us think he's a jerk for the way he carried on. Things break regardless of cost. It just happed to break when it was inopportune for the OP. Too bad.

But, you don't go on a rand damning every product made by a company because a $150 board needs to be replaced. Odds are it might only need a couple of dollars of parts to repair the board, but that is pretty hard to do today. If it was a common problem there would be lots of posts on the topic and odds are fixes posted too. I paid about $3000 for the first Directv HD enabled RCA F38310 years ago. 3 years later they were dieing by the bus load. Bad power supply. But enough of them died that it was discovered that 2 bad caps were the problem and for $.50 we all fixed our own if we choose to, but that isn't the case here. This isn't a mass death. It's one guy's set dieing and he's whining about it. Sorry, too bad, Pioneer is not to blame, and basically it's his problem, he needs to deal with it.


who said anything about a krp-500a for $1749? they did made those models for us. is it the ones with a media receiver? or atleast with no tuners no speakers just display?

WHAT?!!! $1749 USD for a Pioneer KRP-500A in USA? I paid 3000 Euros for mine 15 days ago.
It's not possible, i mean i guess it's not possible because they don't have this model.
Only Europe and Japan has it, they have the 500M but that's just the screen.
And the "M" Series are mostly for companies that use computers etc...
It's not appropriate for cinema.

WHAT?!!! $1749 USD for a Pioneer KRP-500A in USA? I paid 3000 Euros for mine 15 days ago.
It's not possible, i mean i guess it's not possible because they don't have this model.
Only Europe and Japan has it, they have the 500M but that's just the screen.
And the "M" Series are mostly for companies that use computers etc...
It's not appropriate for cinema.

This is one of THE best television set you can get. I dont understand what you are talking about...?!

There is a guy here saying in a previous commentary that the KRP-500A costs $1749 USD in USA.
First this is a Plasma with a separate media receiver, and i would say the best tv you can get in the world at the momment. I bought one for 3000 Euros just 15 days ago.
And besides this model didn't went to USA, how come it costs that money...
Maybe he wants to say that the 500M costs 1749 USD, well but that's a different story, let's not make "stupid" comparisons here.

Yes! I remember when the needed replacement tube would be more expensive than we could afford that week, so no TV for a while.I'm so old I can recall we had only (3) stations to watch: ABC, CBS and NBC. The local stations would sign-off at ~1:00 AM and not resume broadcasting until ~6:00 AM.

Generally, as kids; we used a "bat & ball" for entertainment.

Hi,

Actually it is very welcome in Europe where we pay extortionate prices & taxes for our products compared to what you guys pay. Add a culture of extremely poor customer service and until recently, very little or few consumer rights, people were getting shoddy products, paying a fortune for them and then not having enough back-up or support for their purchases when things went wrong. Even extended warranty companies got in on the act and charged people a fortune for them and which many of which turned out to be worthless due to the number of clauses and conditions attached to them. In the USA, prices may or may not go up if such a law was introduced there but in Europe, it does not matter an inkling - we have always had high prices enforced upon us by the markets. Give you an example - You can pick up a Pioneer KRP-500A in the USA for $1749. The very same set in the UK has a lowest selling price of $4122 (£2499). Live a few years in our shores and you may have a very different view!

Also, the market was flooded by less than stellar products from China and this legislation was partly to also ensure that brands maintained a decent level of manufacture and quality control for products entering the EU.

Bazzy!



Here's the commentary.... WHAT!!! Where can you get a KRP-500A for 1749 USD? Maybe a china replica? LOOOOOL

That's a lot of "what if's"...Interesting Doom & Gloom scenario. Let me create another.. North Korea gets antsy & super crazy and decides to take out South Korea's industry along w/Japan's industry in one fell swoop. Kaboooom! No Samsung, no Sony, no Sharp, no Panasonic. Geez, you better not be owning one of those displays if that happens!:DChange that player to Iran, Israel, Pakistan & India.

Some country, some day, will light up a firecracker. How can they resist?

And the "M" Series are mostly for companies that use computers etc...
It's not appropriate for cinema.

What?

So I should disconnect my Blu-Ray player now?

It seems like every Tom, Dick or Harry believes this guy is an absolute jerk for buying a top of the line plasma & expecting it to last for more than 4 years. Is it because it was a mighty Pioneer plasma that bit the dust? I wonder what this thread would look like if it was a Samsung that went down. Good luck with your repair decision.

That was my first thought too as the owner of a Samsung plasma. I get bashed for even recommending them, not a fanboy, but for the money they are the best bang for the buck out there. I could have afforded a Kuro but why? Why drop that kind of coin on technology that continues to improve as prices fall like a rock?

And to the op, I would be pissed too. But, I also think that if I can get 4-5 years out of one of these sets I will be lucky, extended warranty or not. And by then, my 58" plasma will probably cost half of what I paid and have better pq to boot and available at my local party store next to the chips and beer.:D

Mike

Here's the commentary.... WHAT!!! Where can you get a KRP-500A for 1749 USD? Maybe a china replica? LOOOOOL

Hi,

That was my post - Looks like I made a small error - I should have said KRP-500M & not "A". Sorry for that!

OK, the fact is that the KRP-500M can be had for $1749 in the US and in the UK the cheapest is around $3804 (£2300). That is a difference of $2055 - over double what it costs in the USA & even more if you take into account that many places charge more than that!

Bazzy!

I could have afforded a Kuro but why? Why drop that kind of coin on technology that continues to improve as prices fall like a rock?My approach towards acquiring HIGH technology is since I cannot afford to buy these toys very often, when I do I purchase the best item that I can reasonably afford.

Buy once, buy right or go cheap and buy twice.

There may be some initial pain up front, but a year or two down the road; no one will remember missing the extra grand or two as they enjoy watching their most awesome Kuro PDP.

My approach towards acquiring HIGH technology is since I cannot afford to buy these toys very often, when I do I purchase the best item that I can reasonably afford.

Buy once, buy right or go cheap and buy twice.

There may be some initial pain up front, but a year or two down the road; no one will remember missing the extra grand or two as they enjoy watching their most awesome Kuro PDP.

Well, I dropped around $4 grand on a 52" Sony XBR2 unit a few years ago. The following year I purchased a 2008 60hz Sony LCD for around $1500 on sale at CC. That $1500 set blew that XBR unit away in pq. Just like it blew away the Sony RP LCD it replaced, and I paid near $3 grand for that set. So I have a bit of experience here in spending a few bucks on televisions. That was $7000.00 for those two sets, and now an $800 set has the potential to blow all three of these sets away in regards to pq.

This time around I wanted the best bang for the buck, and a Samsung 58B560 blew away the competition in regards to what I wanted to spend, and in pq when I side by sided it up against a Panasonic G panel. I already crossed the Pio's off of the list, as I was not going to drop that kind of coin on a tv, not again. Very happy with my new 58", under 2 grand, football and occasional movie machine. And I went to Adorama and picked up a Mack 5 year in home extended warranty for $179, covered for 6 years.

Mike

Hi,

That was my post - Looks like I made a small error - I should have said KRP-500M & not "A". Sorry for that!

OK, the fact is that the KRP-500M can be had for $1749 in the US and in the UK the cheapest is around $3804 (£2300). That is a difference of $2055 - over double what it costs in the USA & even more if you take into account that many places charge more than that!

Bazzy!

Yes Bazzy, but that's only fair...I mean you guys are more cultured than us poor Western slobs...you gave us the Beatles and all we had was Elvis...I mean come on...you offered up James Bond...and we counter with Maxwell Smart?...no wonder you pay for more for these items.

After a somewhat disappointing title to this thread, I'm glad to see it has taken a more positive path.

Yes Bazzy, but that's only fair...I mean you guys are more cultured than us poor Western slobs...you gave us the Beatles and all we had was Elvis...I mean come on...you offered up James Bond...and we counter with Maxwell Smart?...no wonder you pay for more for these items.

After a somewhat disappointing title to this thread, I'm glad to see it has taken a more positive path.


Hi!!

Be fair - You guys gave the world Kentucky Fried Chicken, McDonalds, Burger King, Pizza Hut etc - Don't beat up on yourselves so much!! And just to drive the point home again - yes, we pay well over double for all of these items too and the freaking portions are smaller with no free refills!! If you go to Burger-King you even have to pay nearly a dollar extra just for slice of processed cheese on your Whopper and you have to pay extra for ketchup!! If only we had the right to bear arms!!!

But then again, if you have a heart attack or get run over by a truck, you are taken care of really well and have no medical bills to pay!

Bazzy!

But then again, if you have a heart attack or get run over by a truck, you are taken care of really well and have no medical bills to pay!

Bazzy!

Hey, I thought you guys had the wonderful free health care as our prez continues to tell us. And only the illegals get off scott free here, and then we put them on welfare and put them in a house... Hmmm, I might need to go to Mexico and sneak across the border.:mad:

Mike

It's really simple, don't buy anything unless it comes with an unlimited transferable lifetime warranty.

And when it comes to cars, only buy American !!!

Just spent $900 last year on some parts for a Lexus SC that cost me a lot in 93 and of course Lexus didn't pay for any of it. Same with work on my Z. Now my GM cars, most of the out-of-warranty work were covered by recalls ;).

Hey, I thought you guys had the wonderful free health care as our prez continues to tell us. And only the illegals get off scott free here, and then we put them on welfare and put them in a house... Hmmm, I might need to go to Mexico and sneak across the border.:mad:

Mike


you get this from FOX news - true, balanced, honest, accurate, fair,...reporting, 24hrs a day, " if you heard it on FOX it must be true" ?

you get this from FOX news - true, balanced, honest, accurate, fair,...reporting, 24hrs a day, " if you heard it on FOX it must be true" ?

Didn't you know, we have the BEST HEALTHCARE IN THE WORLD!...at least for our millionaires.

you get this from FOX news - true, balanced, honest, accurate, fair,...reporting, 24hrs a day, " if you heard it on FOX it must be true" ?

No, used to work in surgery, scrub nurse, right across the river from Windsor Ontario at the Detroit Medical Center, Hutzel Hospital to be exact. Where do you think the local Windsor residents went for their emergency care?:D

And still do for that matter, as Windsor, last time I was over there, had no trauma/ER units left. They would get them stabilized and send them to us. Or you went on a waiting list, 9 months to see a cardio doc to tell you you need a triple by-pass, but that was twenty years ago, I hear it is much worse now.

Mike

Hey, I thought you guys had the wonderful free health care as our prez continues to tell us. And only the illegals get off scott free here, and then we put them on welfare and put them in a house... Hmmm, I might need to go to Mexico and sneak across the border.:mad:

Mike

Hi,

For the most part, the health care is excellent here - it's just the bean counters that spoil things - my doctor takes care of me as thoroughly as any private doctor would - recently I had a life threatening heart attack and was in a heart hospital within 20 minutes and had a full team of specialists waiting who saved my life - I was kept in hospital for as long as they deemed necessary and only allowed to leave after a whole bunch of tests were concluded, given counselling, enrolled on a heart rehabilitation programme, given a specialist nurse I can call any time and called for regular tests every month or so. On top of that, I do not have to pay for all the various medications I have to take - so, even though my country is run by a bunch of incompetent & corrupt morons, there is a up-side to things! If that had happened to me in the US and I did not have costly health insurance, I would have probably had another heart attack when I got the final medical bill through!! Anyway, I digress and apologise for taking the thread somewhat off track!


Bazzy!

Didn't you know, we have the BEST HEALTHCARE IN THE WORLD!...at least for our millionaires.

No complaints here, went 38 years without insurance, paid cash and saved a bundle. They will bill you, and if you don't have the money, a no interest payment plan can always be worked out. I have never been denied care anywhere in this country, from Alaska to Florida, 2 bouts of kidney stones to roids, with no insurance. But I did carry an inexpensive catastrophic policy just in case I was hit by a bus or heart attack. Saved a bundle over the years. Now I have insurance, that we pay for, and again, no complaints here.

Mike

Hi,

For the most part, the health care is excellent here - it's just the bean counters that spoil things - my doctor takes care of me as thoroughly as any private doctor would - recently I had a life threatening heart attack and was in a heart hospital within 20 minutes and had a full team of specialists waiting who saved my life - I was kept in hospital for as long as they deemed necessary and only allowed to leave after a whole bunch of tests were concluded, given counselling, enrolled on a heart rehabilitation programme, given a specialist nurse I can call any time and called for regular tests every month or so. On top of that, I do not have to pay for all the various medications I have to take - so, even though my country is run by a bunch of incompetent & corrupt morons, there is a up-side to things! If that had happened to me in the US and I did not have costly health insurance, I would have probably had another heart attack when I got the final medical bill through!! Anyway, I digress and apologise for taking the thread somewhat off track!


Bazzy!

It's OK Bazzy. It's rare we are told the truth about other country's healthcare systems. All we get over here are scare stories and how bad it is, etc.

No, used to work in surgery, scrub nurse, right across the river from Windsor Ontario at the Detroit Medical Center, Hutzel Hospital to be exact. Where do you think the local Windsor residents went for their emergency care?:D

And still do for that matter, as Windsor, last time I was over there, had no trauma/ER units left. They would get them stabilized and send them to us. Or you went on a waiting list, 9 months to see a cardio doc to tell you you need a triple by-pass, but that was twenty years ago, I hear it is much worse now.

Mike

:)

Though not Mexican, being a liberal in a staunch conservative border town I'm just a bit hypersensitive.

how about we leave the politics aside, and continue to bash the op instead? that's a lot more fun... ;)

Just spent $900 last year on some parts for a Lexus SC that cost me a lot in 93 and of course Lexus didn't pay for any of it.

you got off cheap! my wife's 95 sc just took $4100 out of my pocket... :eek:

you're right Chris.

and ouch !! talk about depreciation huh.

the rear strut assemblies on that car are a KILLER pricewise... :( 1500 for the parts alone... various other stuff added up along the way...

i figure it's 15 years old and she has 90k on it... it was worth putting the money into it, since she loves the dang thing so much... at 5k miles a year, it's not like she's killing it, so it probably (hopefully?) won't need another major repair for awhile, so when you amortize the cost, it doesn't hurt too bad... :)

yea, they've depreciated significantly... :) hers stickered for around $50k in 1995... given the mileage, condition and the fact that it's a 5-speed, i could probably actually get around $4-$5k today... not too bad...

90k is mint for these cars. i just hit 140k on mine, most were from the first few years. after numerous electrical failures on a 450slc & a 911 and a blown Z turbo i'm still impressed with the build quality of this car, only parts replaced were power steering pump, alternator & ac, all recently & due to age AND all LCDs still work. of course it'll never blow any car off the line but once the on-ramp is cleared it really cruises :D.

yep, parts are hard to find & expensive. mine's a 400 so not much choice. for your 300 many Supra parts can be used instead (you're probably aware but just thought i'd mention it). http://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc-400-300-6/

... i know it's OT but figured poor op can use a break ;)

I don't think he's reading this stuff any longer.

Hi All,

In the European Union Countries, there is such a thing as the "Sale Of Goods Act" which companies desperately hope that people do not know about as this act ensures that even though a product may be out of the manufacturers or sellers warranty, if a product is not performing correctly, has broken down, or has failed within a certain time such a product should be reasonably expected to last, then the consumer has the right to ask for a repair or replacement - period. TV's are generally expected to last at least 6 years under this act and one has full recourse should something happen.

Surely, in the good Ol' USA where companies bend over backwards to please the customer and where the customer is king and with laws to ensure that the customers always get looked after fully, you guys should have something similar? You guys make as mad as hell with the preferential pricing you get and green with envy at the generally superb customer & after sales service you have been so rottenly spoilt with! In the UK, normally we truly get shafted deep and proper and that is without lubrication!


Bazzy!That "sale of goods act" thing sounds like a great way for government to step in and protect consumers...until you realize that companies that do business in countries with such laws invariably pass the extra costs on to consumers. Not to mention the extra taxes you guys have...and the ridiculous "if it has HDMI it's a tv and taxed accordingly" thing.:p

The reason it seems that Americans get preferential pricing and service is because we are insatiable consumers and always have to have the latest thing. The days of buying a tv/stereo/appliance etc.. and keeping it for 20+ years are over, and companies know (and promote) this. Customer service is still somewhat important because they want your money again in 5 years when all of your stuff seems "outdated" and you feel you're missing out on the latest and greatest..

I paid over $200K for my house, it better not break or I am gonna be pissed!!:p

It's OK Bazzy. It's rare we are told the truth about other country's healthcare systems. All we get over here are scare stories and how bad it is, etc.

I'm very happy that everything worked out well for Bazzy, but others, my wife for example, can tell you absolute horror stories of dealing with socialized medicine. Stuff we can't comprehend hear and she was even one of the lucky ones who actually new doctors she could pay under the table to be seen.

What we have currently have hear isn't perfect by any means but it is absolutely, positively without question, by any logical/rational means of analysis, the best in the world.

Not trying to call anyone out. Just trying to make a quick point, and no I don't watch FoxNews (honestly, probably would) because it's all ota for me.:)

90k is mint for these cars. i just hit 140k on mine, most were from the first few years. after numerous electrical failures on a 450slc & a 911 and a blown Z turbo i'm still impressed with the build quality of this car, only parts replaced were power steering pump, alternator & ac, all recently & due to age AND all LCDs still work. of course it'll never blow any car off the line but once the on-ramp is cleared it really cruises :D.

yep, parts are hard to find & expensive. mine's a 400 so not much choice. for your 300 many Supra parts can be used instead (you're probably aware but just thought i'd mention it). http://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc-400-300-6/

... i know it's OT but figured poor op can use a break ;)

yea i knew that, but thanks for bringing it up anyway... never hurts to be reminded... :) you are right, not gonna win any stoplight battles, but it's very comfortable in triple digits (not that i would know that by personal experience or anything :p )....

sounds about like ours in terms of repair... it's been real good to me, i can't complain...

ah, this whole topic has been one big ot ramble... ;)

Hi,

For the most part, the health care is excellent here - it's just the bean counters that spoil things - my doctor takes care of me as thoroughly as any private doctor would - recently I had a life threatening heart attack and was in a heart hospital within 20 minutes and had a full team of specialists waiting who saved my life - I was kept in hospital for as long as they deemed necessary and only allowed to leave after a whole bunch of tests were concluded, given counselling, enrolled on a heart rehabilitation programme, given a specialist nurse I can call any time and called for regular tests every month or so. On top of that, I do not have to pay for all the various medications I have to take - so, even though my country is run by a bunch of incompetent & corrupt morons, there is a up-side to things! If that had happened to me in the US and I did not have costly health insurance, I would have probably had another heart attack when I got the final medical bill through!! Anyway, I digress and apologise for taking the thread somewhat off track!


Bazzy!

Hey Bazzy, like I just said I couldn't be happier you made through everything ok. But you better lay off the bacon you were talking about yesterday.:)

That was my first thought too as the owner of a Samsung plasma. I get bashed for even recommending them, not a fanboy, but for the money they are the best bang for the buck out there. I could have afforded a Kuro but why? Why drop that kind of coin on technology that continues to improve as prices fall like a rock?

And to the op, I would be pissed too. But, I also think that if I can get 4-5 years out of one of these sets I will be lucky, extended warranty or not. And by then, my 58" plasma will probably cost half of what I paid and have better pq to boot and available at my local party store next to the chips and beer.:D

Mike

The problem is not so much with Pioneer (although they have involved in some very skeptical practices) it is with PDP technology in general. Plasmas have always had the highest failure rate of all the current display technologies.

The problem is not so much with Pioneer (although they have involved in some very skeptical practices) it is with PDP technology in general. Plasmas have always had the highest failure rate of all the current display technologies.

source?


very few people have had trouble with pioneer plasmas.

Interesting.....I appreciate everyones responses. I have been shamefully reading and feeling like a big whiner.

However, when I bought my $5,000 LCD PJ, I went into it knowing that the bulb cost $400 and I would need to replace it every couple of years. If I had known my Plasma would die after 4 years and it would cost me $550 to get it going I would have re-thought the purchase. I mistakenly assumed that my Plasma would go forever like the other 5 tvs I have owned from RCA, Sony & Mitsubishi.....Damn things refuse to die making it hard to convince the wife we need more Plasmas in the house.

After much reflection my anger is not so much about the money but this Plasma dying has caused me major roadblocks for my near-term future Plasma TV purchases. The wife is not happy that I must now spend $550 of her decorating budget (my golf & HT budget) to fix something that, in her mind, should last as long as the other tv's in our house have.

I know all you guys here are Macho, I-run-the-house kind of guys....I am too!! I make a good living and buy nice, quality stuff and take care of it. But when a board the size of my laptop computer fails and Pioneer says it is normal, I have a hard time swallowing that. Try wrenching the $550 from your pocket after you have bragged to all of your friends over the years about have the shiz-nizzle PQ from the top-o-line Elite. I feel dirty and used.

But don't believe I am the liberal free-lunch guy you make me out to be! I am a staunch conservative and am totally against government health care. I thought my long-winded, life-long Pioneer buying loyalist story would help my cause.....but No sir.

I will be buying the extended warranty which usually is not valid for parts breaking like the one I had (sarcasm) but I will put my tail between my legs and quietly surrender here and say "Uncle".

This does not change the fact that I am royally pissed off and now I can't buy the new Kuro or other high-end plasma because the better half will question the life expectancy.

I think the wife has to go - Problem solved! ;-)

Oh, and I own a Mercedes and a Ford, the Mercedes burned through a set of Pirelli's in less than 18,000 miles. I tried telling the dealer the tires were defective and they said "you must drive really aggressive, no free tires for you!" I said that is the understatement of the year!

Anyone have any thoughts about the new Kuro's?! :-)

You all can say what you want about this.

I bought a pioneer amp when i was 16, lasted me over 30 yrs and still works great. I also own other pioneer stereo products that have lasted as long and i still have them. If i could have afforded to buy a pioneer plasma i would damn well expect better than 4yrs based on their reputation alone never mind personal experience. And i never worried about no damn warranty either.
Quality it sacrificed at the expensive of quality these days,manufacturers in general that offer say a 2 year warrranty design based on exceding only that limit,anything over that is gravy in theri minds. I am with the OP , 6 large is alot of money to throw away.

source?


very few people have had trouble with pioneer plasmas.

TV repair shops. Just ask them and they will tell you which display technology have the most problems.

i'm shocked, shocked, that it took auditor over 100 posts to show up in this thread...

auditor, you are slipping... :p

good on you bloomis! :D way to man up and deal with it...

now, i can certainly understand being mad for the reason you are now... :)

fwiw, i'm not one of those "macho, i run the house" type of guys (i'm one of those limp-wristed, tree-hugging, environment loving metrosexual type of guys :D ), but i'm fortunate that swmbo is an even bigger a/v nut than i am...

a little secret... i'd bet that many of those who talk tough on avs aren't really that tough when the little woman is around... ;)

Socketman - That is the rub for me too. I own tons of Pioneer products and every one is/has worked flawlessly for years. Some through ridiculous outdoor parties for several days and they just keep going and going.

My buddies and I joked about their amps/and receivers being indestructable.

Just disappointed....That $550 was less than 30 days away from the downstroke on a new Kuro, but now I have to convince the CFO that I just happened to get the 1% Lemon.

Thanks!

Oh, and I own a Mercedes and a Ford, the Mercedes burned through a set of Pirelli's in less than 18,000 miles. I tried telling the dealer the tires were defective and they said "you must drive really aggressive, no free tires for you!" I said that is the understatement of the year!

You should stop buying that stuff, Mercedes, Ford and yes even Pioneer, although they make some fantastic A/V receivers. Mercedes isn't what they used to be (reliable) and neither is Ford. Not knocking your decision, but those manufacturers never seem to score that high on consumer reports anymore.

now, i can certainly understand being mad for the reason you are now...

a little secret... i'd bet that many of those who talk tough on avs aren't really that tough when the little woman is around...
__________________
- chris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yeah, most of the tough-talkers are actually married to house-coat wearing, broom-riders....they just muscle their way on these boards since they get worked over daily at home.

I appreciate your understanding the real source of my anger/frustration.

Money will come and go......But do not mess with my HD Plasma!

TV repair shops. Just ask them and they will tell you which display technology have the most problems.

LOL...I thought you were living out your remaining days in the biosphere....still spreading the end of plasma technology I see...at least you are alive...

You guys didnt answer Op last question so i will, I think the new kuro models are amazing PQ is yet again the best in the world (it has been said over and over by many profesionals)

i think you should get a new kuro just to stay updated AND to own the Last pioneer plasma which should cover you until oled is standard.

(pioneer is also aiming towards oled and plans to getting back as soon as 2011)

and if you wish repair it get the part install it and there you go that second panel should be as good or better then current plasma (other then pioneer of course:D)

Thanks for the input Gus.

I will be repairing my current 50" Elite but am wondering if it is worth trying to save some money to replace the board myself.

I watched the service tech take the back panel off and confirm the board is dead....does the Y-drive assy. board just unplug and unbolt?

Is there any calibration or setup requirements once I install the new board or is it good to go?

I am thinking of buying the part and installing myself if it is just a un-bolt unplug and re-install.

Thanks.

I'm not going to bash the OP, I'm here for moral support. My $6k Samsung 67" DLP, bought in 2005, just turned into a brick. At least it has audio.

I see the same arguments here as I've been having in the Samsung HL-R DLP owners thread. Light engines replaced too many times to mention. Light tunnel failures (for lack of a single drop of the right adhesive) that is now covered by a special extended warranty. Digital boards gone bad.

What's interesting is that while the technology is drastically different, the repair costs are the same.

My light engine was replaced twice within the 2 year warranty period (1 year Samsung, 1 year courtesy AMEX Buyer's Assurance). Last week, the color wheel in my 2 year old light engine suddenly decided to self-destruct in rather dramatic fashion. I spent $100 on the part and replaced it myself. (AVS forum has a thread for everything :) ). Life was good.

Yesterday, the picture started tearing on all inputs and within 15 minutes I had a dead video board. Parts cost is about $600 - $700. Not gonna happen because it will fail again. My guess is within 2 years because that's how old this light engine was.

I just started looking. I'm getting lots of recommendations for the Kuro, but I'm not going to invest in a discontinued model. I haven't seen any displays in person yet.

I
I just started looking. I'm getting lots of recommendations for the Kuro, but I'm not going to invest in a discontinued model. I haven't seen any displays in person yet.

wow, now that really sucks... :(

but...

a) purchasing a depreciating asset isn't an "investment"... :)

b) discontinued or not, it's still the "best" display on the market.... but i freely admit to being a wicked pio ho'... :D

TV repair shops. Just ask them and they will tell you which display technology have the most problems.

Stop spreading crap information. Repair shops, please.

New plasmas are very reliable(panasonic, pioneer). Consumer reports found Panasonic to be the most reliable tv a few years back and panasonic has a great reputation for reliability. Considering there are so many cheap LCD brands which makes your post even worse............ very few low-end lcds last very long. Also add in rear-projection units still out there that are included in recent display technology. Which almost always have problems.

I guess it's all about YMMV.

I'm trying to find the receipt for my 1010HD to see when exactly I bought it. If I were to make a guess, the 1010HD is somewhere around 5 to 6 years old. It's still running strong to this day. Even had it recently calibrated by D-Nice. My buddy on the other hand didn't have such good luck with the same model TV.

TV repair shops. Just ask them and they will tell you which display technology have the most problems.

You may be right that repair shops may see more plasmas but could be because owners think they're worth the repair. The ones they don't see may just be more disposable.

Thanks for the input Gus.

I will be repairing my current 50" Elite but am wondering if it is worth trying to save some money to replace the board myself.

I watched the service tech take the back panel off and confirm the board is dead....does the Y-drive assy. board just unplug and unbolt?

Is there any calibration or setup requirements once I install the new board or is it good to go?

I am thinking of buying the part and installing myself if it is just a un-bolt unplug and re-install.

Thanks.

I haven't repaired any modern panel so can't say but it looks simple enough compared to the old dry cap replacement for older sets. I would try it myself or maybe start a new thread re process & any tuning/adj. that may be involved, there's quite a few tv techs on this board that may know.

As far as new sets, I'm biased of course but I think any of the new Kuros would be good. Best bang for the buck right now would be the KRP500/600M.

Good luck...

bloomis, thanks for replying after all of us took a swipe at you. Hope you try and repair it yourself, seeks like you could solve several problems by doing that...

Hey Bloomis, glad to see we didn't run you off w/all the jibs & jabs. Definitely good choice to fix this beautiful TV, and that board on Ebay looked like a good deal. I've never taken the back off of a flat panel, but maybe you could go to some repair sites on the net and take a look. Also, a repair manual would be good to have as well. If I had paid $6000 for this TV, it would be a keeper and never sold. For one thing, you can't get that much for a 4 yr old used TV, and secondly, it would make for an great spare TV in another room in the house when you decide to upgrade.

BTW, if it is a 25-cent transitor that failed on that Board, then maybe think of actually getting that part repaired rather than replacing the entire Board. How are your soldering skills?:D

very few people have had trouble with pioneer plasmas.I have a 4(+) year old Panasonic, that was made in Japan :) and a 2(-) year old Pioneer PDP.

Both displays are working just fine. Neither PDP has a dead/stuck pixel or shows evidence of BI/IR.

I purchased each PDP very early during its production life cycle. While I paid top dollar, MSRP each time, I wonder if the 1st models produced are subjected to a higher standard of quality control than production units towards the end of that model's run?

Cajieboy & MattL and the rest of the responders.

Thank you all very much for the responses and opinions. That is what makes this forum/board the best on the net.

One thing I have learned is that initial reactions can be emotional and stubborn (as I felt) but realize this is life and I will survive, albeit a little lighter in the pocket.

I stand behind my PQ still rivaling anything out there and I will repair it and maybe use it for the kids PS3/XBOX360 in our game room.

I like when people challenge others, I do it myself all the time..... it forces people to think and use their melons a little, unfortunately many resort to personal attacks on lesser forums.

Thanks!

No, used to work in surgery, scrub nurse, right across the river from Windsor Ontario at the Detroit Medical Center, Hutzel Hospital to be exact. Where do you think the local Windsor residents went for their emergency care?:D

And still do for that matter, as Windsor, last time I was over there, had no trauma/ER units left. They would get them stabilized and send them to us. Or you went on a waiting list, 9 months to see a cardio doc to tell you you need a triple by-pass, but that was twenty years ago, I hear it is much worse now.

Mike


This has gone way OT but I'm nearly finished with med school and would gladly endorse Obama's plan for health reform. As it is right now, the only ones making any money in the health care industry are HMO's that aren't interested in patient care at all.

What?

So I should disconnect my Blu-Ray player now?


Haha well he has to make himself feel better for paying $3000 somehow! Yes our KRP-500M lacks a tuner and a few HDMI inputs but in return our price is nearly half and only US models have the 10G glass so technically our "monitor" is a superior display.

I paid over $200K for my house, it better not break or I am gonna be pissed!!:p


You should demand a refund from the builder if a toilet clogs up!

Hey Bloomis, thanks and keep us informed of how the repair turned out.

[QUOTE=ccotenj;16897833]well, unless ALL of them are dying after 4 years (which, given the paucity of threads like this one, i'm going to guess they aren't), that "reasonable expectation" has been fulfilled...

things break... it's a fact of life... i feel bad for the op (well, not too bad, since he really needs to man up and deal with it), but it's the way it is...

[QUOTE]

All of them don't have to be dying after 4 years.

Even if his is the only one, he has the right to say never again as the "reasonable expectation" was certainly not met for him. The fact is his $6000 Pioneer product didn't last beyond 4 years.

Others can excuse Pioneer that their plasmas should be allowed to break within 4 years as just life but if the Plasma I purchased earlier this year would die in 4 years, I wouldn't be buying another of that brand.

Can someone please close this thread. It's ok to vent but to complain about a product that cost 6k 5 years ago and lasted you how long?....like come on. The product was bought when it first came out so the price is going to be high.

And it is Pioneer as well so even till its last minute you have to admit the picture was still beautiful that's why it was so expensive. 2-3 years over the warranty and they wouldn't help you. You have an option to take it to a local electronics repair center to see if they can fix it for a better price or should of bought an extended warranty?

You should demand a refund from the builder if a toilet clogs up!Last year it cost me $6200 to repair the leaky facade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facade) on the front of my (11) year old home.

It's not only Pioneer whose products fail on occasion.

[QUOTE=ccotenj;16897833]well, unless ALL of them are dying after 4 years (which, given the paucity of threads like this one, i'm going to guess they aren't), that "reasonable expectation" has been fulfilled...

things break... it's a fact of life... i feel bad for the op (well, not too bad, since he really needs to man up and deal with it), but it's the way it is...

[QUOTE]

All of them don't have to be dying after 4 years.

Even if his is the only one, he has the right to say never again as the "reasonable expectation" was certainly not met for him. The fact is his $6000 Pioneer product didn't last beyond 4 years.

Others can excuse Pioneer that their plasmas should be allowed to break within 4 years as just life but if the Plasma I purchased earlier this year would die in 4 years, I wouldn't be buying another of that brand.

ummm... you'll note that after thinking about it overnight, the op has changed his position...

if you go through life "never buying anything from company x because something i owned from them broke", you not only will be miserable, but pretty soon, you might as well become a luddite... ;)

Last year it cost me $6200 to repair the leaky facade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facade) on the front of my (11) year old home.

It's not only Pioneer whose products fail on occasion.


WOW...$6200 for a leaky faucet???? Do ya think the plumber bought an Elite??:rolleyes:

you'll note that after thinking about it overnight, the op has changed his position...Better that someone should reconsider their position than to remain pig-headed about one that is untenable (e.g. advocating the use of the Break-in DVD).

Better that someone should reconsider their position than to remain pig-headed about one that is untenable (e.g. advocating the use of the Break-in DVD).

if that was directed at me, you are directing it to the wrong person... both of my kuros were plugged in, hooked up and used from day 1... :)

WOW...$6200 for a leaky faucet???? Do ya think the plumber bought an Elite??:rolleyes:Although I have replaced a faucet or two... repairing the front facade of my 2-story home is beyond my carpentry skills.

if that was directed at me, you are directing it to the wrong person... both of my kuros were plugged in, hooked up and used from day 1... :)No not you. I respect and agree with most, perhaps all, of the information conveyed by your posts. ;)

There may be some initial pain up front, but a year or two down the road; no one will remember missing the extra grand or two as they enjoy watching their most awesome Kuro PDP.

I agree with you. you would have made triple that back by that time.

For me though there was no pain. i wanted the 151 badly. and when you want you want something that bad there is no price:)

I'll be enjoying this TV until OLED comes out.

Cajieboy & MattL and the rest of the responders.

Thank you all very much for the responses and opinions. That is what makes this forum/board the best on the net.

One thing I have learned is that initial reactions can be emotional and stubborn (as I felt) but realize this is life and I will survive, albeit a little lighter in the pocket.

I stand behind my PQ still rivaling anything out there and I will repair it and maybe use it for the kids PS3/XBOX360 in our game room.

I like when people challenge others, I do it myself all the time..... it forces people to think and use their melons a little, unfortunately many resort to personal attacks on lesser forums.

Thanks!

OK Guys, the OP has changed his tune and was just venting a little frustration. No big deal. Case closed!:D

Although I have replaced a faucet or two... repairing the front facade of my 2-story home is beyond my carpentry skills.


WOOPS!:o

POLAND SPRING PRODUCTS - NEVER AGAIN!!!

I paid 75 cents for this bottle of water and some of it spilled. I don't even think all of the water was wet and when I drank it all it was all gone. What kind of fly by night operation is going on over at Poland Springs?!?!!??

POLAND SPRING PRODUCTS - NEVER AGAIN!!!

I paid 75 cents for this bottle of water and some of it spilled. I don't even think all of the water was wet and when I drank it all it was all gone. What kind of fly by night operation is going on over at Poland Springs?!?!!??Those guy's are :D all the way to the bank!

Yes, I buy bottled water too. :rolleyes:

Last year it cost me $6200 to repair the leaky facade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facade) on the front of my (11) year old home.

It's not only Pioneer whose products fail on occasion.

I had no idea you lived in France...no wonder I've been having a hard time understanding your posts! Thanks for the link, clears up everything now...

POLAND SPRING PRODUCTS - NEVER AGAIN!!!

I paid 75 cents for this bottle of water and some of it spilled. I don't even think all of the water was wet and when I drank it all it was all gone. What kind of fly by night operation is going on over at Poland Springs?!?!!??

My wife is from Poland and when I tried to tell her some Polish jokes she said the funny thing is that they make fun of us. :)

[QUOTE=C5VETTE;16909791][QUOTE=ccotenj;16897833]well, unless ALL of them are dying after 4 years (which, given the paucity of threads like this one, i'm going to guess they aren't), that "reasonable expectation" has been fulfilled...

things break... it's a fact of life... i feel bad for the op (well, not too bad, since he really needs to man up and deal with it), but it's the way it is...



ummm... you'll note that after thinking about it overnight, the op has changed his position...

if you go through life "never buying anything from company x because something i owned from them broke", you not only will be miserable, but pretty soon, you might as well become a luddite... ;)

He may have changed his position but I certainly haven't.
TV's (regardless of price) should last longer than 4 years.

Actually if you go through life "never buying anything from company x because something I owned from them broke" you'll likely find a company that produces a quality product that will last.

It is not a $6,000 TV that's trash, it is a $500 (or $160 from eBay) PART that's trash. Fix it and you still have your $6,000 TV. I mean, come on, things break and you repair them. Is this a premature failure? Yes, probably. But could it be an environmental problem that caused it (i.e. bad power (surges, brownouts, spikes, etc.), dust, static, etc.) or a faulty component on an otherwise good part? You're throwing out the baby with the bath water on this one. I understand the frustration but disagree with your overall assessment on your next step. Plunk down the bucks and fix this part. Your TV may well outlast you!

I agree with your advice but think the OP was whining.

Also, I bet his extended warranty would have cost just about what the repair bill is, so this is further evidence, IMO, that they are a waste of money.

I agree with your advice but think the OP was whining.

Also, I bet his extended warranty would have cost just about what the repair bill is, so this is further evidence, IMO, that they are a waste of money.Au contrair, oh jaded one.

Extended warranties are indeed profit centers for most items. Big TVs (regardless of technology) are the exception. When they go, they are expensive to fix, if you can get the part to fix them.

An extended warranty on these items can protect you against the big repair bill (sometimes more than the set cost new), or, get you a new set if the part is no longer manufacturered.

Lots of folks jumped on Samsung DLP sets a few years ago, and are looking at light engine replacements right and left on them. Worse for those who jumped on the DLP LED bandwagon. Those little 10 cent LEDs suddenly get very expensive when placed in a TV set.

Manufacturers are rushing technologies to market quickly to get sales and beat the other guys. An extended warranty on these items protects buyers from manufacturer mis-steps and technology changes.

I would not buy a new HDTV without factoring in the cost of an extended warranty as part of the purchase.

I had no idea you lived in France...no wonder I've been having a hard time understanding your posts! Thanks for the link, clears up everything now...With my residential property's usurious (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/usurious) class "B" rating, I believe my tax assessor must think I live there too. :mad:

you're welcome and no i dont know if calibration is needed, however i dont think so. it should sound that simple but its your choice if you want to make sure and pay more for the tech, if they are liable of course if they arent then take your chances. (what good are they if they screw up and wont step up)


Thanks for the input Gus.

I will be repairing my current 50" Elite but am wondering if it is worth trying to save some money to replace the board myself.

I watched the service tech take the back panel off and confirm the board is dead....does the Y-drive assy. board just unplug and unbolt?

Is there any calibration or setup requirements once I install the new board or is it good to go?

I am thinking of buying the part and installing myself if it is just a un-bolt unplug and re-install.

Thanks.

You may be right that repair shops may see more plasmas but could be because owners think they're worth the repair. The ones they don't see may just be more disposable.

The TV repair shops (those who actually fix TV's) know. They have first hand information. Plasmas over the years have proven to be the least reliable of all display technologies.

LOL...I thought you were living out your remaining days in the biosphere....still spreading the end of plasma technology I see...at least you are alive...

We both know that we're living in the last days of PDP technology. Panasonic will be the last company standing, but even the great Panasonic cannot content with power of the market, which is LCD.

I don't know if you can actually use repair facilities for an accurate representation of the reliability of plasma panels. Since plasmas don't require anything for a technician to do if the panel is operating correctly, then the only panels which a repair facility will see are the ones with problems. When you only see broken units coming in, your perspective gets a bit skewed. There are too many factors in pinning any type of predicition on the reliability of a particular TV type. How large of a service area is this facility servicing? What's the concentration of a particular panel type in that demographic?

I would say the actual dealer with a service department would yield a more accurate picture.

The TV repair shops (those who actually fix TV's) know. They have first hand information. Plasmas over the years have proven to be the least reliable of all display technologies.

one of these days, it would be nice if you actually posted some data to back up this assertion that you constantly make... :rolleyes:

The TV repair shops (those who actually fix TV's) know. They have first hand information. Plasmas over the years have proven to be the least reliable of all display technologies.According to three different local repair centers i went to last year when i was trying to get my old AV Receiver diagnosed and repaired, i chit-chatted with the guys while waiting and we talked about reliability and ease of dealing with the various manufacturers when it comes to warranty work and parts availability and they all claimed that the Panasonic Plasmas are actually the most reliable TVs currently being made and have the lowest failure rate out of all the TVs they fix. All three of these places were Panasonic/Sony/Philips/Samsung repair centers, and two of them also fixed Pioneers. They also said that LCDs tend to have more problems and the smaller ones cannot be fixed and are usually just replaced under warranty. This also pretty much matches what my friend's long-time TV repairman father says (he has 40 years fixing TVs). CR also rated the Panasonic Plasma as the most reliable TV you can buy so how can you say Plasma is unreliable?

Exactly where did you get your information that Plasmas have proven to be the least reliable of all display technologies?

Exactly where did you get your information that Plasmas have proven to be the least reliable of all display technologies?
I can only go by what I read here on the AVS.

Just this week in the FPForum a member's plasma went out and he was returning it to Costco for something else.

I don't believe I've ever read one post where somebody's LCD went out? But I read plasmas dying all the time here.

Whats your experience here or whats reliable or not?

We both know that we're living in the last days of PDP technology. Panasonic will be the last company standing, but even the great Panasonic cannot content with power of the market, which is LCD.You don't know anything. Panasonic has invested billions in new manufacturing facilities and the technology is improving every year and we don't see it going away anytime soon.

I remember when people said that Front Wheel Drive cars will put Rear Wheel Drive car companies out of business, but the better performing technology prevailed and almost all the companies that had dropped RWD cars started making them again. There is plenty of room in the market for both technologies to co-exist, just like BMW and Porsche co-exist with Kia and Hyundai.

I can only go by what I read here on the AVS.AVS, or the internet forums in general, is not an accurate source for reliability data.

Just this week in the FPForum a member's plasma went out and he was returning it to Costco for something else.So one guy in the Plasma forum had his plasma go out, and you deem Plasma as unreliable?

I don't believe I've ever read one post where somebody's LCD went out? But I read plasmas dying all the time here. Your history here shows that you read what want to read. I don't even read the LCD forums as much as the Plasma forums but i see lots of LCD owners post that their LCDs went out on them so i don't see how you can miss all these posts. Pretty convenient. There are a lot of crappy companies making LCD TVs and there are a lot of failures and returns so either you're not reading the LCD forum, or you're in denial. Your hatred for Plasma technology stems from a bad experience you had about what, 4-5 years ago? You're stuck in the past.

Whats your experience here or whats reliable or not?I have three Plasma TVs. I have probably a few dozen friends, relatives, and customers who have Panasonic and Pioneer Plasma TVs, and none of us have suffered any failures (i'd surely hear about it since i'm the resident AV geek in my circles). Does that mean they're 100% reliable? No. But i'm convinced that Panasonic Plasmas are the most reliable TV you can buy.

On the other hand, i have bought two small Samsung LCD TVs (a 26" and a 19") within one year and both of them developed picture problems the first week i had them. Samsung customer service (or lack of) was terrible in both instances so i returned them and replaced them with other brands (HP and Toshiba which are still both working perfectly). My GF's 32" Polaroid LCD TV's tuner stopped working a month after the warranty expired, then about a year after that the picture got all scrambled and we had to throw the thing away. I've seen plenty of reports of LCD TV failures in reviews on the former CC's customer review pages and Amazon's customer review pages. It may not be an indication of which technology is more or less reliable, but it does prove that both LCD TVs and Plasma TVs can and do suffer failures.

I can only go by what I read here on the AVS.

Just this week in the FPForum a member's plasma went out and he was returning it to Costco for something else.

I don't believe I've ever read one post where somebody's LCD went out? But I read plasmas dying all the time here.

Whats your experience here or whats reliable or not?


Anecdotal evidence is pretty useless. I have two plasma tvs one of which is almost four years old and neither have given me an ounce of trouble. Doesn't really mean much.

My 19" LCD just stopped working one day. I tossed it and got another. Now I have a 24" 16x10 LCD for my PC. All I'd buy a LCD display for is my PC. I love my 50" Panasonic Plasma. Went from CRT, to CRT Rear Projection, to PLASMA. I don't want to watch TV and Movies on a LCD. It just looks fake. Much better picture with a Plasma at a lower cost. From what I've read, they have really good Reliability. Everything no matter what it is will have a few bad apples. My old 31" RCA CRT SDTV broke down twice in the first couple years, luckily under Extended Warranty and got fixed and after that was problem free until I got rid of it for my first HDTV.

Most of the time I skip any posts by those two, Auditor and Cband, since neither of them as any sense their their single minded hatred of plasma is unwarranted. I might read a comment if I'm in need of a laugh or two, but that is the only use of their posts in these forums. Why they even bother to post here is a mystery.

You only have to go to the LCD forums and scan the topics "Help my LCD died" is a popular topic there. And for some reason with the number of posts there it's not uncommon to see 3, 4, or 5 posted in a day, whereas here it's no very common. About the only thing these two have done is to make me much more vocal in support of plasma, especially in the LCD forums. I own both, and I find the shortfalls of LCD to be serious, more so than any of the perceived and imaginary problems with plasmas they seem to have.

I think really the only reason the LCD is pushed more over Plasma at stores is because these days people are used to a LCD display for their PC. If it's good enough for the PC it's good enough for your main TV. I was going to get a LCD myself, because of Burn-In Worries and what not, especially gaming on it, but I didn't just rush out and buy a new HDTV, but read up, and looked at BOTH and in the end, went with a 50" Panasonic Plasma. I couldn't be more happy with my choice. Of course I later found out my brother got the exact same display as I did just before I got mine, and my Dad got the Costco version himself. That's 3 50" 1080P Panasonic Plasma's just in my Family.

I can only go by what I read here on the AVS.

Just this week in the FPForum a member's plasma went out and he was returning it to Costco for something else.

I don't believe I've ever read one post where somebody's LCD went out? But I read plasmas dying all the time here.

Whats your experience here or whats reliable or not?

I guess you missed my post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1095628&highlight=sony

I don't know if you can actually use repair facilities for an accurate representation of the reliability of plasma panels. Since plasmas don't require anything for a technician to do if the panel is operating correctly, then the only panels which a repair facility will see are the ones with problems. When you only see broken units coming in, your perspective gets a bit skewed. There are too many factors in pinning any type of predicition on the reliability of a particular TV type. How large of a service area is this facility servicing? What's the concentration of a particular panel type in that demographic?

I would say the actual dealer with a service department would yield a more accurate picture.
So, one opinion is better than another?

An actual dealer will likely steer you towards the set that has the highest profit margin for the dealer. He might also recommend a brand that has poor reliability to keep his service tech billing the manufacturer for warranty work. Guess who gets billed after the warranty expires?

If I spent $6000 on a display and it only lasted 4 yrs until a major malfunction occured, I'd be POed too....ie a set costing that much should last a very long time imho...

I don't see what the cost of the tv has to do with anything


4 years ago $6000 wasn't even THAT expensive for a tv
I bought my first DLP in 2005 and it was $3k and DLP were the cheap tvs

I guess you missed my post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1095628&highlight=sony
No I didn't see your thread. But LCD failures are very hard to find here on the AVS.

But its a different story for plasmas. I read alot of threads like the OP's story here. Just making a point and it appears to me plasmas aren't as reliable.

More important is how much it cost to fix a problem. If its a power supply its a breeze. If its a video board you got a big price tag.

In the 90's I bought two Toshiba's 32" CRT's which Video magazine said they were the best CRT's they had ever tested. The problem I had with both of them was they would shut off.

Long story short I had warranties on both and the warranty company paid me off instead of fixing them because it cost more for the fix then the TV.

The OP here says only 550.00 to repair and it could be alot worse.

No I didn't see your thread. But LCD failures are very hard to find here on the AVS.

This is crazy talk. I guess it depends on what you call a "failure". IMHO, the countless posts in the Samsung LED set thread about clouding, flashlighting, and dark corners count as failures. Or I guess you could just chalk that up to lousy design, crappy QC, and worse QA :D

For specifics, we have a thread about a Toshiba Regza (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1167884) going south, some kind of component input issue (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1167531) with this guy's set, this guy's set doing weird stuttering (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1167846) with his 360, this guy's parent's impending powering on problem (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1167721), this entire thread of disastrous problems (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=847465&page=631)with the Samsung 61/65/66F line, and this guy who's brand new Samsung LED got replaced (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1164533) due to some sort of power problem.

Yeah it's very hard to find any LCD failures :rolleyes:

jeff

So, one opinion is better than another?

An actual dealer will likely steer you towards the set that has the highest profit margin for the dealer. He might also recommend a brand that has poor reliability to keep his service tech billing the manufacturer for warranty work. Guess who gets billed after the warranty expires?

Well unlike the perception you have about dealers, I don't take the stance that all dealers are out to screw me. I've developed a good relationship with a couple of dealers in my area. I trust a lot of what they tell me especially one of the dealers as one of their managers is a good friend of mine. He shares a lot of information with me about various lines and I would say he would let me know if a product has problems. It also helps this dealer also has their own service department. Based on this level of access I have, I can say I'm comfortable with my Pioneer purchase. Also, if he didn't feel comfortable with Pioneer's reliability, he wouldn't own any of their higher priced items himself.

As an aside, many dealers like to try to foster a reputation of some honesty and are not always looking to pick pocket all the patrons that walk through their door.

Both my lcds broke within 2 years(westinhouse(expected, any one who expects those to last more than 2 years is crazy), samsung), i didn't make a thread complaining about it.

and almost EVERY westinghouse of the same model lcd broke withing 2 years. How many threads have we seen on the thousands of those sold? 0 outside of the main threads they had. Almost 100% failure rate! Due cheap parts.

I think people see what they want to see.


LCDs are less reliable than plasmas. plasma sales are pioneer/samsung/panasonic. LCDs you have vizio, samsung, and a million others. brands like vizio, westinghouse, proscan make LCDs with very cheap part that will fail well before the panel.

People will always ignore statistics and logic and go with internet logic; 'oh well i don't see any people have broken LCDs on the forums, so TO ME plasmas are less reliable' Like putting 'to me' makes it less stupid.

Pioneer is one of the best brands on Home Cinema Equipment, but it's not for those who just want a plasma, or a blu ray player.
Is for those who want the best period.
If you think $500 USd is much to buy an extra part...LOOL Better you go and buy those samsung LED or even a Sony LCD...it will fit you.

Funny there's a great thread in the LCD forum about the great new Proscan LCD that does 1080p for $800 or $900. The first page is all "Oohs and Ahhs" about the great deal (?) and 42" 1080p for $900 and on and on about how wonderful they are and how fast they are selling.

But.... all of a sudden all that is posted is about all the problems people are having and how many people are returning the set before their 30 days is up and how Best Buy pulled the product off the shelves, and on and on.

But there are few problems posted in the LCD forum. More drivel from oldcband.

No I didn't see your thread. But LCD failures are very hard to find here on the AVS.

But its a different story for plasmas. I read alot of threads like the OP's story here. Just making a point and it appears to me plasmas aren't as reliable.
.



Who said that? Where did you heard that plasmas aren't as reliable as LCD? LOOOL
My friend first when you say plasmas, let's take Pioneer out because that's a different world.
Second a plasma can have a long life or not (and this applies to every tv) depending on the usage, abuse, everything matters...

About the picture differences, there you can talk, and say that in your opinion LCD it better or whatsoever.

Check a Pioneer Plasma Kuro (even the 8th Generation, you don't need to go for the ultimate ones) and compare it to any LCD or LED.
And tell me where do you find the most natural and impressive colors.

Cheers

Who said that? Where did you heard that plasmas aren't as reliable as LCD? LOOOL
My friend first when you say plasmas, let's take Pioneer out because that's a different world.
Second a plasma can have a long life or not (and this applies to every tv) depending on the usage, abuse, everything matters...

About the picture differences, there you can talk, and say that in your opinion LCD it better or whatsoever.

Check a Pioneer Plasma Kuro (even the 8th Generation, you don't need to go for the ultimate ones) and compare it to any LCD or LED.
And tell me where do you find the most natural and impressive colors.

Cheers

It's always a situation of the 3 P's :
PREFERENCE...........No one has the same taste
PERCERPTION.......... A person has to appreciate Quality to Enjoy it
PERFECTION...........Wanting to have what is the best and improve on it

Well the car will last forever, but the expensive electronics have a tendency to develop problems. Being a BMW enthusiast and racer and instructor i see lots of electrical and electronic failures on people's expensive new cars. The more complex or high end they are, the more likely they are to fail. Most of the BMWs in the dealer's service bays are there for an electronic problem. In my industry (Electrical Wholesale) a 2% to 5% failure rate on electronic ballasts and trip units and contactors and dimmers etc is the norm. It didn't used to be like this 20 years ago - such is the way of modern electronics. That Pioneer board probably got knocked out by a 25 cent capacitor that blew.

Man...if I only have read this before I dropped 72 g's last week. My first 2009 BMW M3 with drivelogic...NAAAH!
This car rips everytime I get into it.. :)

No I didn't see your thread. But LCD failures are very hard to find here on the AVS.

But its a different story for plasmas. I read alot of threads like the OP's story here. Just making a point and it appears to me plasmas aren't as reliable.

More important is how much it cost to fix a problem. If its a power supply its a breeze. If its a video board you got a big price tag.

In the 90's I bought two Toshiba's 32" CRT's which Video magazine said they were the best CRT's they had ever tested. The problem I had with both of them was they would shut off.

Long story short I had warranties on both and the warranty company paid me off instead of fixing them because it cost more for the fix then the TV.

The OP here says only 550.00 to repair and it could be alot worse.

Interesting perspective but it appears very biased. I've had 4 new tvs in the house over the last 4 years. 3 LCDs and 1 plasma. The first 32" Panasonic LCD failed within the first year and a complete panel was replaced fortunately under warranty. Just recently the second oldest TV failed and it was a Samsung LCD as it burnt out 3 capacitors on the power supply (reportedly a common problem with Samsungs). The plasma which is 3 years old and the oldest set in my house now (the Panasonic LCD has been sold and was replaced with the Samsung that failed) continues to work with no issues and the other LCD is less than a year old.

Interesting perspective but it appears very biased.
All perspectives, by definition, are biased.

Your post goes on to describe your personal experiences. While valid, also shaped your perspective.

My personal experience with Pioneer products is that I would not consider that brand again in future purchases. My perspective is that their quality is suspect due to early failure of products I have owned, and their company policies are not customer friendly.

Others are welcome to their opinions and their experiences may lead them to have different perspectives.

All perspectives, by definition, are biased.

Your post goes on to describe your personal experiences. While valid, also shaped your perspective.

My personal experience with Pioneer products is that I would not consider that brand again in future purchases. My perspective is that their quality is suspect due to early failure of products I have owned, and their company policies are not customer friendly.

Others are welcome to their opinions and their experiences may lead them to have different perspectives.
Don't know why folks have such a hard time with the term "bias".

http://www.conservative-resources.com/definition-of-bias.html

"to be biased is to be human"

Don't know why folks have such a hard time with the term "bias".

http://www.conservative-resources.com/definition-of-bias.html

"to be biased is to be human"

Thank you Mr. Gump. Enjoy that box of chocolates.:)