Can someone give me opinion ,is it worth to buy mark levinson no.33 today?:(

If you have the money to blow and you like the way they look why not?! Like everything in life it is only worth what you think at that point.

Can someone give me opinion ,is it worth to buy mark levinson no.33 today?:(

IMHO they are still fantastic amps and worth a look for the money. I don't see any for sale right now on Audiogon and I don't remember the last pricing, but from the standpoint of sonics I have been thrilled with their presentation for many years. I use a pair with 220v power for my Wilson Alexandria's with an Audio Research Reference 3 preamp and Transparent cables--for me, the combination has always produced an extraordinary synergy. The delicacy of a single instrument, whether Jerry Douglas on dobro or the Bach Sonatas and Partitas for solo violin--is recreated with amazing accuracy and detail while drenching you in the ambiance of the performance space. As importantly, the power and dynamics of a full scale orchestra such as the Dallas Wind Symphony in Trittico--are on impressive display with the ML Reference 33's. I confess that lately I have been thinking about adding a pair of tube amps for an occasional different presentation--but if I had to choose one amp I would stick with my 33's--they are the complete package.

I have not heard the new Mark Levinson No. 53 Reference amps (the digital replacements for the 33's), but I have heard the new No. 532 Dual Monaural amps with the same digital amp technology--and the new amp is fantastic to be fair. However, in my opinion the improvement (if any--it may just be different) is not to the scale to justify the difference in price if that is important to you.

Best wishes,

Clay

IMHO they are still fantastic amps and worth a look for the money. I don't see any for sale right now on Audiogon and I don't remember the last pricing, but from the standpoint of sonics I have been thrilled with their presentation for many years. I use a pair with 220v power for my Wilson Alexandria's with an Audio Research Reference 3 preamp and Transparent cables--for me, the combination has always produced an extraordinary synergy. The delicacy of a single instrument, whether Jerry Douglas on dobro or the Bach Sonatas and Partitas for solo violin--is recreated with amazing accuracy and detail while drenching you in the ambiance of the performance space. As importantly, the power and dynamics of a full scale orchestra such as the Dallas Wind Symphony in Trittico--are on impressive display with the ML Reference 33's. I confess that lately I have been thinking about adding a pair of tube amps for an occasional different presentation--but if I had to choose one amp I would stick with my 33's--they are the complete package.

I have not heard the new Mark Levinson No. 53 Reference amps (the digital replacements for the 33's), but I have heard the new No. 532 Dual Monaural amps with the same digital amp technology--and the new amp is fantastic to be fair. However, in my opinion the improvement (if any--it may just be different) is not to the scale to justify the difference in price if that is important to you.

Best wishes,

Clay
Thanks Clay, your experience with this amp help me a lot . Could please answer another one question about the reliability on yours?:)

one note to mention---get ready for some serious uppage on your utility bill if you go the 33 route...

Thanks Clay, your experience with this amp help me a lot . Could please answer another one question about the reliability on yours?:)

Good question--I have heard a few owners and dealers complain about the reliability of the ML 33 amps. I believe it was the power supplies that the dealer said he frequently had to replace. My 33's have been completely reliable, even though I often unplug them when I leave for travel or during nasty lightning storms. I also have a 33H and several 300 and 400 series ML amps--and they have all performed without incident.

However, my friend just received his new ML No. 532 and No. 433 amps and don't you know both failed immediately and had to be replaced (which ML did apologetically and with haste). Due to their design, the 33's do produce a lot of heat--so make sure your AC is up to the task. The big Krell amps I used previously had the same parameters--big Class A amps do require a lot of juice and they do produce a lot of heat. Same consideration for the big ARC tube amp I used to enjoy.

These are all important considerations in your decision process, but I would offer this: I have continued to upgrade my speakers, cables, preamps, digital front ends, power products and stands--and I am always in the market for new gear--it's what I do. But I have been unwilling to part with my 33's over the years because I found something I truly love. IMHO, buying a good used amp is the best value in high end audio.

Clay

Good question--I have heard a few owners and dealers complain about the reliability of the ML 33 amps. I believe it was the power supplies that the dealer said he frequently had to replace. My 33's have been completely reliable, even though I often unplug them when I leave for travel or during nasty lightning storms. I also have a 33H and several 300 and 400 series ML amps--and they have all performed without incident.

However, my friend just received his new ML No. 532 and No. 433 amps and don't you know both failed immediately and had to be replaced (which ML did apologetically and with haste). Due to their design, the 33's do produce a lot of heat--so make sure your AC is up to the task. The big Krell amps I used previously had the same parameters--big Class A amps do require a lot of juice and they do produce a lot of heat. Same consideration for the big ARC tube amp I used to enjoy.

These are all important considerations in your decision process, but I would offer this: I have continued to upgrade my speakers, cables, preamps, digital front ends, power products and stands--and I am always in the market for new gear--it's what I do. But I have been unwilling to part with my 33's over the years because I found something I truly love. IMHO, buying a good used amp is the best value in high end audio.

Clay
Thanks for your great advise.:)

heya,

re reliability, ML had a quality problem a while back with the can sized Capacitors used in the power supplies. They simply dried out way too early. You probably wont hear it until they are completely dry inside and give way to huming and buzzing sounds. And since the 33 has lots of them, many more need to die before you might notice.


mine did after about 4 years (ML332) if I remember correctly and had to be replaced altogether. Since Im the original owner and bought several MLs before that, that has been done with no extra charge in my case.


However, since that period falls within the make of 33 and 33Hs you may be looking at, Id keep a budget for it.

Overall, if this happens, its no big deal except the inconvenience. My amp sounded as good as ever after the replacement.


regards matthias

heya,

re reliability, ML had a quality problem a while back with the can sized Capacitors used in the power supplies. They simply dried out way too early. You probably wont hear it until they are completely dry inside and give way to huming and buzzing sounds. And since the 33 has lots of them, many more need to die before you might notice.


mine did after about 4 years (ML332) if I remember correctly and had to be replaced altogether. Since Im the original owner and bought several MLs before that, that has been done with no extra charge in my case.


However, since that period falls within the make of 33 and 33Hs you may be looking at, Id keep a budget for it.

Overall, if this happens, its no big deal except the inconvenience. My amp sounded as good as ever after the replacement.


regards matthias
Hi matthias,Thanks for sharing your experience with us.

I still own the 335 amplifier which is in the same period as the 33's, I had the capacitor problem. They were replaced under warranty. I was told that at that time they received a bad batch of capacitors while building amplifiers from their supplier which triggered this whole issue.The amp has performed flawlessly since then. It has been mentioned previously that items around the amp change but the amp remains. I agree and have no desire to change my amp. If you have the cash buy them.

Can't offer an opinion on that model, but I can say that my 332 has been a real trooper for over a decade. Built like a tank and sounds great with my Dunlavy's.

I still own the 335 amplifier which is in the same period as the 33's, I had the capacitor problem. They were replaced under warranty. I was told that at that time they received a bad batch of capacitors while building amplifiers from their supplier which triggered this whole issue.The amp has performed flawlessly since then. It has been mentioned previously that items around the amp change but the amp remains. I agree and have no desire to change my amp. If you have the cash buy them.
ThanksSharp1080,Your experience make me more confident with LEVINSON. I also have one ML 334 bridge mono for my center for while and it excellent.
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt267/evo6oo-2009/IMG_1474.jpg[IMG]

Can't offer an opinion on that model, but I can say that my 332 has been a real trooper for over a decade. Built like a tank and sounds great with my Dunlavy's.
Thanks Jive Turkey, for sharing experience.:)

Clay, I have to say that we share a common philosophy. i can see myslef changing all sorts of components in my system over the years ahead (mostly due to changes in either technology and/or formats) but not my amps. they're the work-horse of the system and i see myself owning them for the next 25 years at least. in my case the amps are not 33s but 436s but thought i'd post since we share a common view.

My 334 also had the capacitor problem after a couple years but has been fine with the replacements ever since.

Note also that the No. 4xx amps have a different sound than the 3xx amps; whether it's better or worse is a matter of opinion.

hi guys
funny this subject came up because i just purchased my first ML 333 amp and cant wait for it to arrive.It was recapped in 2002 i believe and was wondering on the life expectancy of a recap?I have had a Bryston 14bsst,Classe ca300&400 and a Sim Audio Titan(7ch),BUT i am using a dual ATC mid in my tops and they are a very picky mid.Having spoke with ATC,they recommend ML amps.Has anyone had bad luck after 2002?
I must admit,they are a piece of eye candy...they just dont build them like they used to.
thanks John

The 33/33H did not have the capacitor problem of the 300 series. I have had my 33Hs for 8 years with no problem. But caps don't last forever!

IMHO they are still fantastic amps and worth a look for the money. I don't see any for sale right now on Audiogon and I don't remember the last pricing, but from the standpoint of sonics I have been thrilled with their presentation for many years. I use a pair with 220v power for my Wilson Alexandria's with an Audio Research Reference 3 preamp and Transparent cables--for me, the combination has always produced an extraordinary synergy. The delicacy of a single instrument, whether Jerry Douglas on dobro or the Bach Sonatas and Partitas for solo violin--is recreated with amazing accuracy and detail while drenching you in the ambiance of the performance space. As importantly, the power and dynamics of a full scale orchestra such as the Dallas Wind Symphony in Trittico--are on impressive display with the ML Reference 33's. I confess that lately I have been thinking about adding a pair of tube amps for an occasional different presentation--but if I had to choose one amp I would stick with my 33's--they are the complete package.

I have not heard the new Mark Levinson No. 53 Reference amps (the digital replacements for the 33's), but I have heard the new No. 532 Dual Monaural amps with the same digital amp technology--and the new amp is fantastic to be fair. However, in my opinion the improvement (if any--it may just be different) is not to the scale to justify the difference in price if that is important to you.

Best wishes,

Clay

Clay,

Long time & great to see you on here again. Not to go OT but care to let us know what tube amps you're considering to replace the 33's on the Alex's? :p Wilsons love tubes I found with my Maxx2's after trying almost everything that they really loved the big VTL 750's. This to me did not provide the inner detail and tonal beauty of the Lamm ML2 SETs I had when I started off but did provide more grip and scale on those huge symphonic fortissimo passages which was nice. Having ability to switch to triode mode for smaller scale vocals or acoustic instrumentals really was the best of both worlds although again not as refined as the incomparable Lamm 30w SET.

Clay,

Long time & great to see you on here again. Not to go OT but care to let us know what tube amps you're considering to replace the 33's on the Alex's? :p Wilsons love tubes I found with my Maxx2's after trying almost everything that they really loved the big VTL 750's. This to me did not provide the inner detail and tonal beauty of the Lamm ML2 SETs I had when I started off but did provide more grip and scale on those huge symphonic fortissimo passages which was nice. Having ability to switch to triode mode for smaller scale vocals or acoustic instrumentals really was the best of both worlds although again not as refined as the incomparable Lamm 30w SET.

Greetings Owl1!
Wilsons do love tubes--and those VTL's are fantastic. I heard them only once, but what a presentation. I moved to SS years ago after my ARC tubes just couldn't handle the symphonic fff -- compressed and 2D; but boy have I missed that midrange on string instruments--and like you, small scale vocal arrangements. But the Ref 33's do these things extremely well--not magic like tubes--but with great delicacy and finesse. This is one of the few amps I have ever heard that sounds great at low volumes. And as I have evolved my room to handle theater, the 33's have remained superstars, handling the dynamics and scale of blockbuster movies with sheer majesty.

Back to tubes... I have wanted to add a pair of LAMM ML 2.1's to my setup for awhile. These would not replace my 33's, but would sit alongside to provide that missing magic when needed. To confuse the situation, they keep offering to send me a pair of the new ML No. 53 Reference monoblocks to try out, and I want to hear the LAMM ML3 Signatures before I decide to do anything because they are also a possibility. You recommend I audition the VTL's as well?

Meanwhile, the 33's keep rockin' along...

Best,

Clay

Greetings Owl1!
Wilsons do love tubes--and those VTL's are fantastic. I heard them only once, but what a presentation. I moved to SS years ago after my ARC tubes just couldn't handle the symphonic fff -- compressed and 2D; but boy have I missed that midrange on string instruments--and like you, small scale vocal arrangements. But the Ref 33's do these things extremely well--not magic like tubes--but with great delicacy and finesse. This is one of the few amps I have ever heard that sounds great at low volumes. And as I have evolved my room to handle theater, the 33's have remained superstars, handling the dynamics and scale of blockbuster movies with sheer majesty.

Back to tubes... I have wanted to add a pair of LAMM ML 2.1's to my setup for awhile. These would not replace my 33's, but would sit alongside to provide that missing magic when needed. To confuse the situation, they keep offering to send me a pair of the new ML No. 53 Reference monoblocks to try out, and I want to hear the LAMM ML3 Signatures before I decide to do anything because they are also a possibility. You recommend I audition the VTL's as well?

Meanwhile, the 33's keep rockin' along...

Best,

Clay
Hello Clay,As I have plan to move to bigger speaker like Alexandria x2 series2 from my existing W/P 8 & KRELL EVO 600. Do you think I will get more details if I replace EVO 600 to ML 33?. :)

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt267/evo6oo-2009/IMG_1442-1.jpg

[QUOTE=Boonyarat;16925309]Hello Clay,As I have plan to move to bigger speaker like Alexandria x2 series2 from my existing W/P 8 & KRELL EVO 600. Do you think I will get more details if I replace EVO 600 to ML 33?. :)

Hey Boonyarat--you anticipated my first response by including a picture of that fantastic room! I was going to say, before you start threading needles between 2 fine amps--be sure that your room is up to par... But that is a beautiful AV room, and I see a lot of gear that we share: Wilson Watch Center II, JL Audio 113 subs, I use ML 336 and ML 432 for rears and (4) WP's for surrounds.

Boy, your question calls for a complex answer that, on this site, can start a maelstrom of name calling and arrow flinging--but I will try my best to answer by relating my personal experience. I have owned many Krell products: KAV 250a, FPB 600, KPS 25sc, AV Standard, Krell HTS, and the MC 650 monoblocks--but to be fair I have never owned the Evolution series--I just auditioned them--so judge my answer in that context.

Fast Forward: Once I heard the combination of Wilson (X-1's at the time), Mark Levinson Ref 33's and Transparent cables, I was done with Krell. They make fine amps that sound impressive and are very reliable (I keep 2 or 3 of them lying around as spares currently loaned to friends in between amps). But I will never go back to Krell. My ears and brain are wired in a way that at a certain threshold of realism, music evokes a personal, emotional response. I just don't need to argue about "veils", "continuousness", or any other audiophile platitudes. At some point I finished my room, got my system components just right, listened to "Che gelida manina" in La Boheme, and I cried. I listened to "Ode to Joy" in Beethoven's 9th, and I was exalted in the euphoria of a long distance runner. Ella Fitzgerald sang "A Night in Tunisia" and transported me back to a jazz club in Paris on rue des Lombards. I was weightless and just floating--

I never had this experience with Krell. It was always "Wow, listen to the bass that amp produces." I remember long ago testing my WP's with the Krell FPB 600 on the canon shots in the 1812 Overture--what a demonstration (ultimately blew a Puppy)! But for me it was always the brute force sonic impact where the Krells excelled . Krell amps are impressive.

With the Ref 33's, I added a finesse, an intimacy and inner detail, and a musical realism that richly added to [I]my experience. And while I would never want to convince you to trade your EVO 600 for Ref 33's--that is something you alone must decide--I do implore you to continue the search for that musical system which has the power to beguile you from sadness or enthrall you with unmatched joy and exuberance.

[QUOTE=Boonyarat;16925309]Hello Clay,As I have plan to move to bigger speaker like Alexandria x2 series2 from my existing W/P 8 & KRELL EVO 600. Do you think I will get more details if I replace EVO 600 to ML 33?. :)

Hey Boonyarat--you anticipated my first response by including a picture of that fantastic room! I was going to say, before you start threading needles between 2 fine amps--be sure that your room is up to par... But that is a beautiful AV room, and I see a lot of gear that we share: Wilson Watch Center II, JL Audio 113 subs, I use ML 336 and ML 432 for rears and (4) WP's for surrounds.

Boy, your question calls for a complex answer that, on this site, can start a maelstrom of name calling and arrow flinging--but I will try my best to answer by relating my personal experience. I have owned many Krell products: KAV 250a, FPB 600, KPS 25sc, AV Standard, Krell HTS, and the MC 650 monoblocks--but to be fair I have never owned the Evolution series--I just auditioned them--so judge my answer in that context.

Fast Forward: Once I heard the combination of Wilson (X-1's at the time), Mark Levinson Ref 33's and Transparent cables, I was done with Krell. They make fine amps that sound impressive and are very reliable (I keep 2 or 3 of them lying around as spares currently loaned to friends in between amps). But I will never go back to Krell. My ears and brain are wired in a way that at a certain threshold of realism, music evokes a personal, emotional response. I just don't need to argue about "veils", "continuousness", or any other audiophile platitudes. At some point I finished my room, got my system components just right, listened to "Che gelida manina" in La Boheme, and I cried. I listened to "Ode to Joy" in Beethoven's 9th, and I was exalted in the euphoria of a long distance runner. Ella Fitzgerald sang "A Night in Tunisia" and transported me back to a jazz club in Paris on rue des Lombards. I was weightless and just floating--

I never had this experience with Krell. It was always "Wow, listen to the bass that amp produces." I remember long ago testing my WP's with the Krell FPB 600 on the canon shots in the 1812 Overture--what a demonstration (ultimately blew a Puppy)! But for me it was always the brute force sonic impact where the Krells excelled . Krell amps are impressive.

With the Ref 33's, I added a finesse, an intimacy and inner detail, and a musical realism that richly added to [I]my experience. And while I would never want to convince you to trade your EVO 600 for Ref 33's--that is something you alone must decide--I do implore you to continue the search for that musical system which has the power to beguile you from sadness or enthrall you with unmatched joy and exuberance.
Thanks for your reply clay. Actually KRELL is fine for me right now but as it's a hobby so I want to try may be something elf different in details. Your explanation is so clear and help me a lot. I do not have plan to trade EVO 600 but I do have plan to buy ML 33 (for music & collection ) and will keep they both. If possible in near future I will plan to trade EVO 600 to EVO ONE and end up with KRELL.:):)

What are the coverings on the walls on either side of the absorbers? Are they blackouts for windows of some nature, and if so, do you have a web link where I can look at the product?

Greetings Owl1!


Back to tubes... I have wanted to add a pair of LAMM ML 2.1's to my setup for awhile. These would not replace my 33's, but would sit alongside to provide that missing magic when needed. To confuse the situation, they keep offering to send me a pair of the new ML No. 53 Reference monoblocks to try out, and I want to hear the LAMM ML3 Signatures before I decide to do anything because they are also a possibility. You recommend I audition the VTL's as well?



IMO the Lamm's are in a different league with the right speaker (high enough sensitivity); the KT88 and 6550 tubes are somewhat sterile in direct comparison to the Lamm SET although of course very nice. If you are keeping the Levinsons what an embarrassment of riches as you'd have the best of class for both worlds if you go with the ML3's for music and Levinson for HT.

Boonyarat, LOL, that gorgeous room was made for big Wilsons! Those Krell make the 8's look like minimonitors!

What are the coverings on the walls on either side of the absorbers? Are they blackouts for windows of some nature, and if so, do you have a web link where I can look at the product?
Hi, Jive Turkey. Yes,they are blackout for window that we can roll up for natural light. Sorry I do not have the brand name but I think you can find at many home mart store.:)

IMO the Lamm's are in a different league with the right speaker (high enough sensitivity); the KT88 and 6550 tubes are somewhat sterile in direct comparison to the Lamm SET although of course very nice. If you are keeping the Levinsons what an embarrassment of riches as you'd have the best of class for both worlds if you go with the ML3's for music and Levinson for HT.

Boonyarat, LOL, that gorgeous room was made for big Wilsons! Those Krell make the 8's look like minimonitors!
Hello owl1, I have plan for bigger main speaker but last year I failed negotiate dealer with Alexandria x2 s 2 :( . I may try again some day.:):)

hi guys
funny this subject came up because i just purchased my first ML 333 amp and cant wait for it to arrive.It was recapped in 2002 i believe and was wondering on the life expectancy of a recap?

My 334 was recapped under warranty after about two years, and the problem has not yet returned around five years later.

my 334 was recapped under warranty after about two years, and the problem has not yet returned around five years later.
wow.....:)

My 334 was recapped under warranty after about two years, and the problem has not yet returned around five years later.


Has anyone had recent service with ML? Was hearing a couple of years ago it was very painfully slow getting gear back, to the point where I wondered about their ongoing viability. Was hearing stories of 6mo+ waits to get equipment back from them.

Supposedly now that they're settled into their new location, it's back to normal.

My 334 was recapped under warranty after about two years, and the problem has not yet returned around five years later.

thanks,i have had a little time for comparison between a Classe CA-300 & the 333,and have heard some people say the 333 is on the crispy(dare i say)side?
It seems to have more detail and yet less bottom end than the Classe(20-40hz)..Does that seem about right?? I will admit ,my system is a bit of a mess right now.
john