Hey everyone,

I thought I would ask a question of this forum as it seems likely there are experienced Audiogon buyers and sellers here.

I have an item for sale for which I received an offer significantly below asking price. I was in communication with this buyer (let's call him buyer number 1) negotiating a price. After a series of very quickly-responded-to emails, I received no reply to my counter offer. Given that the buyer 1 is in Israel, this is not surprising because of the time difference.

In the meantime, buyer number 2 comes along and offers full asking price and is in CA - so shipping is easy.

I am obviously inclined to take the offer from buyer number 2 but I wonder what the etiquette is around buyer number 1 and the implications for receiving bad feedback?

Am I obligated to offer buyer number 1 an opportunity to match the offer even though I don't really want the hassle of shipping internationally and dealing with possible delays due to Customs?

I know in this day and age accepting a lower offer seems crazy to consider - but doing the right thing is important to me. I do just want to accept the offer from buyer 2 and complete the transaction - but not at the risk of my reputation (via poor feedback).

Any thoughts?

Ash

If the first guy has already paid you then it wouldn't be cool to sell it to someone else. Given that he hasn't, I think you're free to sell it to the second person.

Agreed .. but I have no email even confirming an agreed price .... my last one sent was a counter offer. Still would love to know the weight of opinion. Can buyer number 1 even submit negative feedback if he chose to given we did not agree on a price?

Ash

Feedback only comes from actual purchasers or sellers you actually make the real deal with. If they use the Agon system to make the offer and acceptances, etc., then the system will prompt for feedback eventually.

If the first guy has not responded and you a bettr offer from a second buyer, you are not obligated in any way to the first. You are not contractually obligated to anyone under Agon rules unless you use their system. How you feel morally about doing businessis your business. I'd go with the second buyer in a heartbeat. Especially avoiding the potential downside of an international shipment gone bad.

Just another comment: First, obviously from a contractual standpoint you are permitted to withdraw your offer (counteroffer) at any time prior to receiving an acceptance (more could be discussed here, i.e. mailbox rule (U.S.), etc.) but not likely important. That said, I'd just inform buyer #1 that unit has sold (impliedly revokes your offer). Since that would be "legal" in U.S. I can't see how A'gon could hold that against you (or allow anyone else to do so).

I would, however, be sure you have a REAL buyer, and not someone getting ready to scam you by offering full price (those are often reason for a "raised eyebrow" in my experience).

Jim

FWIW I have done 100+ transactions at Audiogon.
I agree with the previous advice. I would have no problems accepting payment from Buyer #2 whether it be full price or not. A firm committment seals the deal - back & forth negotiations are merely foreplay.

On a couple of occasions as a seller, I have agreed on deals and have had higher offers soon thereafter, but still honoured my committment to the first guy.

- Andy

i would have no hesitation going with the 2nd buyer. specially if its local or in the US.

fyi- i always put in the ad that domestic/local buyers are given preference for speed of transaction.

I am skeptical of the second buyer. No one (at least very seldon) on Audiogon offers full price. BEWARE!

Get a bank certified check, that has bank info on check, that you can call and verify they issued check and funds are good, before you ship. Tell buyer that is your condition of sale.

An advertisement to sell is not a contract. You never accepted the buyer from Israel's offer so you never had a contract with that buyer. That's from law school contracts 101 back in 1975!!!

Good luck!

i know nothing about selling on A-gone, however once i read this my suspicious side kicked in. I offer to buy at a low price saying i am in far away place. once i have you talking, i email with full price offer from US... you are now even more keen to take the potential scam offer from the uS. as steve said, make sure you have the cash.

This is a common situation for me on craigslist. The most complicated was caused by an enthusiastic potential buyer that dropped communication. We later received an offer from a guy who was willing to come by the same day. A couple of hours after talking to him, the enthusiastic guy called from our neighborhood asking for directions. I ended up selling to #1 and calling #2 to let him know the deal was off. It can get kind of complicated, but a lot of people are flaky, and as a result, you can't count on any of them.

I would call my policy: Say yes to all offers, who ever's at the door first wins.

For all those concerned about scams, online selling 101 says never ship before payment. This is default behavior.

I am skeptical of the second buyer. No one (at least very seldon) on Audiogon offers full price. BEWARE!


I'd say as a general rule, that definitely holds. However, just last week on Audiogon I was offered full asking for a DVD player (coincidentally buyer was in CA). I was reflexively suspicious, but he had extensive 100% good feedback, so I accepted. He immediately paypal-ed the money.

Get a bank certified check, that has bank info on check, that you can call and verify they issued check and funds are good, before you ship. Tell buyer that is your condition of sale.


You still should wait at least 10 days until the check has fully cleared; a certified check just means that the bank has put a hold on funds in that account to cover the check - I don't believe it prevents the issuer from subsequently issuing a stop payment.

Ash,

I admire your ethics. I deal in a very similar manner. As many posters stated - the first confirmed deal is the one. When I post (online ads) I usually state "I will only respond to those who provide their phone numbers and I will respond with mine" I usually only deal with locals as I live in big metropolitan area. For me, this weeds out a lot of the deadbeats who hide behind an alias, stop responding, no show etc. Even if the deal is "done" and before the ad is pulled, I advise the other buyers that a deal is done and they are 2nd, 3rd etc in the queue (I usually price my gear to go). Once the deal is officially done (goods and $ exchanged), I advise the the other buyers that the goods have been sold and that I appreciate their interest.

Many buyers pay the asking price if it fair or considered a "steal".

It depends how motivated the seller is and how much cash they have tied up in the item to begin with.

Plus you can collect all the email addresses of the offers and inquiries for future marketing of your items... :rolleyes:

I am skeptical of the second buyer. No one (at least very seldon) on Audiogon offers full price. BEWARE!




I usually offer full price as long as its fair as I don't have the time or inclination to haggle with someone. I have received lowball offers in the past as well, but I've also received many at asking. If the gear is priced right, there is usually no need to haggle, offer/counter-offer.

Hey everyone,

I first wanted to say thank you to everyone for their sound and reasoned advice. I have accepted the bid from the second bidder after informing the first bidder that his offer had been trumped. The second bidder has already Paypal'd the fee ... so he is definitely legit.

Thanks and good evening.

Get a bank certified check, that has bank info on check, that you can call and verify they issued check and funds are good, before you ship. Tell buyer that is your condition of sale.


You still should wait at least 10 days until the check has fully cleared; a certified check just means that the bank has put a hold on funds in that account to cover the check - I don't believe it prevents the issuer from subsequently issuing a stop payment.


I'd be concerned that a 10 day wait (before shipping) might be a deal killer.

If you're going the money order route, wouldn't requiring a U.S. Post Office money order give a small bit of extra insurance over a bank money order?

I mean as far as I know, anyone that fakes a U.S. Post Office money order (and sends it across state lines) has likely bought into even more trouble than if they fake a bank money order.

I don't know this for sure, and am interested in feedback on it.

Cheers

Wanting to pay full price generally means that the interested buyer felt the goods were priced fairly and low-balling might lead the way to losing that opportunity.

Folks, a "bank certified check" means a check issued DIRECTLY from the bank, not a check issued by the buyer. I instruct buyers to obtain such a check, with a # on it and the bank name and phone # on it. Then I can call the bank and verify they wrote the check and issued the funds. Then I can ship immediately thereafter. I have done this many times. One time,
the bank certified check could not be verified, I sent back to buyer, who did not follow through and I felt that the check was likely fraudulent.

Folks, a "bank certified check" means a check issued DIRECTLY from the bank, not a check issued by the buyer. I instruct buyers to obtain such a check, with a # on it and the bank name and phone # on it. Then I can call the bank and verify they wrote the check and issued the funds. Then I can ship immediately thereafter. I have done this many times. One time,
the bank certified check could not be verified, I sent back to buyer, who did not follow through and I felt that the check was likely fraudulent.

I don't believe that's correct. A cashier's check is a check that is issued directly by the bank, with a corresponding serial number. It's usually in triplicate, and they give you a copy to give to the payee and a "receipt" copy to keep for your records. There's widespread counterfeiting of cashier's checks, so - as you said - the first step would be to verify the serial no. with the issuing bank.

A certified check is a check you write from your set of checks, take to the bank, and they put identifying stamps on it as being "certified" by them that they have placed a hold on funds in your account to cover the check. Not sure, but I believe a certified check can subsequently be stopped by the issuer, though I think it's more difficult than putting a stop on a normal check.

I am skeptical of the second buyer. No one (at least very seldon) on Audiogon offers full price. BEWARE!


I pay asking price when it's a good deal. Doing otherwise doesn't make sense where it's less than I'm looking to pay and some one making a higher offer at the same time is likely to leave me looking, especially where the value of my time is considered (For instance, getting more work done so I have time to dine with my wife takes precedence over saving $50).

Where asking price is high I offer a lower but fair price and often include research on comparable prices.

I was in negotiation to buy a Richard Gray Powerhouse on Audiogon. After arranging shipping, including tracking down and getting RGPC to ship a factory crate for this 350lb. monster (with pallet) to him at my cost, and agreeing to his asking price, he sold it in an eleventh hour deal to another buyer for 200$ more. We had emailed and agreed to terms and exchanged addresses over the course of a week. He never mentioned another buyer or gave me the chance to counter. And it was not an auction. Essentially I had the rug pulled out from under me at the last minute. He even claimed to be an RGPC dealer. To this day I don't understand what part of "We have a deal" he didn't understand. I have had very good experiences with Audiogon up to that point, and will continue take advantage of this excellent site. I guess I wasn't clear enough when I said I'd buy it for his asking price, arrange and pay for all the shipping including getting the factory crate, and arrange for third party pickup and delivery.

Must wait at least 10 days until the check has fully cleared; a certified check just means that the bank has put a hold on funds in that account to cover the check -

IT DOES NOT PREVENT STOP PAYMENT!

Checks clear within 3-5 bankers days and almost all clear or not within 2 days you need only check with the bank. The days of check kiting are long over. Ten days is over kill. Waiting 10 days is still however the standard to make sure you don't get a letter from your bank saying the check was rejected. The banks put holds on the money for ten days to earn inters on your money not because they take that long to clear.