The picture that Cam Man posted has less than 1/4 pixel of MC vertically, and almost zero horizontally, and you find that unacceptable? If your RS20 is better than that, don't get rid of it, because the chances of you finding any projector under $50K with that kind of convergence is just about nil.

I thought I read that it was 0.25 off? Also from the picture that was posted it was really hard to get a feel for what it looks like standing at the screen. It would be great to see a snippet of what the single pixel grid with single pixels inside the grid looked like so I could better understand rather than guessing based on descriptions.

The MC on my RS20 is rather exceptional IMO. On a single pixel grid you can see some MC outlining but it is minimal and perfectly acceptable (which is why I kept this unit originally). The single pixels within the center of each grid box look like single white pixels, with no real traces of color or fringing, although they do not look quite like 100% razor sharp white dots either.

To me I really don't care what it looks like at the screen, just as long as I do not see any hints of it from my normal seating distance. I have found however that it doesn't take much at all MC for me to see signs of it in fine text such as credits or a PC desktop. Therefore I try and judge MC at the screen - the less I can see the higher the chance I can't see it with normal material.

The picture that Cam Man posted has less than 1/4 pixel of MC vertically, and almost zero horizontally, and you find that unacceptable? If your RS20 is better than that, don't get rid of it, because the chances of you finding any projector under $50K with that kind of convergence is just about nil.

Hi ;)
Mine RS20 is almost like if not a bit better of the Cam Man pics ;)
This is the reason why for my concerns ...
It was easy for me choose among 20 RS20 units at my Dealer Lab/Showroom :cool:
Could be almost easy applicable to RS25 ....
But really doubt he will order more than 2 RS35 units ...... :o
And will be restrictive to select and choose among 2 units only .... :o

......

The MC on my RS20 is rather exceptional IMO. ......

+1 :cool:

Just to add a dime to help allay your fears a tiny bit about taking the chance with a 35, lovingdvd.....+1 on my 25. Really fine convergence and focus across the whole screen.

Still photos loaded onto PS3 from this site look crazy good edge to edge. Fun to experiment with gamma too using photos such as what are found here to see what gives more depth. 2.5 is really impressive with them

http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper_beta/downloads/date/any/?promo=disabled

Is the only difference between the 25 and 15 the fact that the 25 has a CMS? Im trying to figure out where the extra 100 lumens comes from.

Do they share the same panels and lens?

Is the only difference between the 25 and 15 the fact that the 25 has a CMS? Im trying to figure out where the extra 100 lumens comes from.

Do they share the same panels and lens?

The CMS is one major difference. Another is that the RS25 is rated significantly higher in on/off CR.

The CMS is one major difference. Another is that the RS25 is rated significantly higher in on/off CR.

Im just wondering since I never even done the FW fix to my rs 20 and thought it looked awesome if I am wasting my money to opt for the 25 over the 15?

Is the higher on/off due to being able to clamp the iris down on the 25? Maybe I should read up on the 15 before I ask dumb questions. All I know is Im ready to buy and get the pain over with.

All I know is Im ready to buy and get the pain over with.

It just should NOT be this difficult. If this is painful, maybe you're taking things too seriously.;) Have a great day !

Im just wondering since I never even done the FW fix to my rs 20 and thought it looked awesome if I am wasting my money to opt for the 25 over the 15?

Is the higher on/off due to being able to clamp the iris down on the 25? Maybe I should read up on the 15 before I ask dumb questions. All I know is Im ready to buy and get the pain over with.

The iris adjustment on the RS15 has the same range as the RS25. However, it is locked to 3 steps, rather than 16. It is just a software limitation. There are no physical parameters that make this difference and it can be hacked in the service menu. However from my understanding, iris 3 on the RS15 is the same as -15 (the maximum) on the RS25 so this does not explain the different on/off CR

The higher on/off from what I understand is due to a different grid, and some other aspects that also mean the lumens output drops slightly as well. The increased contrast is gained from having better black levels.

Aside from the CMS, THX mode, better on/off with better black level and easier iris adjustment, I believe the RS15 is also missing the VGA and trigger ports.

Im just wondering since I never even done the FW fix to my rs 20 and thought it looked awesome if I am wasting my money to opt for the 25 over the 15?

Is the higher on/off due to being able to clamp the iris down on the 25? Maybe I should read up on the 15 before I ask dumb questions. All I know is Im ready to buy and get the pain over with.

Are you using the CMS with your own or someone else's settings? Or are you using THX mode. If that latest the firmware will not make a difference I don't think. Also you cannot tweak the RS10/15's settings to get the same or similar CR out of it as the RS25 or RS35.

Are you using the CMS with your own or someone else's settings? Or are you using THX mode. If that latest the firmware will not make a difference I don't think. Also you cannot tweak the RS10/15's settings to get the same or similar CR out of it as the RS25 or RS35.

Im not using nothing now as I just shipped off my rs 20 to a happy camper. :D

What mounting hardware do you use to ceiling mount your projector?

I got the OMNI 3N1-PJT. My issue is that JVC recommends the mounting screws to the bottom of the projector to be more than 13 mm. The screws that came with the OMNI are only anout 10 mm. And I don't want the projector to land on my head down the road!

Has anyone modified the mounting instructions on the OMNI to longer screws? If so how?

What mounting hardware do you use to ceiling mount your projector?

I got the OMNI 3N1-PJT. My issue is that JVC recommends the mounting screws to the bottom of the projector to be more than 13 mm. The screws that came with the OMNI are only anout 10 mm. And I don't want the projector to land on my head down the road!

Has anyone modified the mounting instructions on the OMNI to longer screws? If so how?

for my Chief mount (RPA-U), i just went to the hardware store and got some longer screws to use. are they some kind of custom screw?

Yes. The part of the screw that fixes on to the mount has a different thread from the part that goes into the projector. I will to get the machine screws that are suitable for the projector and find a way to fix it to the mount.

I have sent an e mail to OMNI for suggestions also.

What mounting hardware do you use to ceiling mount your projector?

I got the OMNI 3N1-PJT. My issue is that JVC recommends the mounting screws to the bottom of the projector to be more than 13 mm. The screws that came with the OMNI are only anout 10 mm. And I don't want the projector to land on my head down the road!

Has anyone modified the mounting instructions on the OMNI to longer screws? If so how?

I use the Chief mount, although not the universal one but rather the main mount with custom bracket. As you change projectors you will need to purchase a new custom bracket but the main part (attached to the ceiling) doesn't change and the new one just slides into place with thumb screws. I think the advantage over the universal bracket is a more compact/cleaner fit and better adjustments too I believe (RPM).

Phil Hinton has published his review of the DLA-HD950 (RS25) over at AVF:

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/JVC-DLA-HD950-DILA-Projector-Review.html

Phil Hinton has published his review of the DLA-HD950 (RS25) over at AVF:

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/JVC-DLA-HD950-DILA-Projector-Review.html

Thanks Gary ! :cool:
Read it all word by word
Happy to the confirmation of I always thought :D
Great machines our RS20/HD750 :D

Thanks Gary ! :cool:
Read it all word by word
Happy to the confirmation of I always thought :D
Great machines our RS20/HD750 :D

It's a JVC. They're all good :)

It's a JVC. They're all good :)

This is true, Gary. But, you see that there is demand here for something even better from JVC? People are basically begging to buy it! Please make it.

There is nothing worse than unsatisfied demand.

Phil Hinton has published his review of the DLA-HD950 (RS25) over at AVF:

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/JVC-DLA-HD950-DILA-Projector-Review.html

This is interesting: 'Superb Ansi-contrast performance (573:1)', yet he doesn't comment on it in text, right? What did he get for HD750?

EDIT: Oh, in comments he says it's similar.

The superb ANSI contrast in this test is not real. A HD950 measures around 230-270:1. A friend of mine just got his unit calibrated by the best calibrator in Norway and it measured 235:1 in Normal mode. My HD950 will be calibrated today by the same guy and I will post the results when I get it...

The superb ANSI contrast in this test is not real. A HD950 measures around 230-270:1. A friend of mine just got his unit calibrated by the best calibrator in Norway and it measured 235:1 in Normal mode. My HD950 will be calibrated today by the same guy and I will post the results when I get it...

Thanks Andreas! Was the ANSI CR measured on your friend's machine with the iris fully open? On my RS20 I measured about 230:1 with high lamp / iris fully closed, and about 280-290:1 with lamp normal / iris fully open. Sounds like nothing has changed much with regards to the ANSI.

Also on a similar note - from everything I've read so far it seems the RS25 is essentially identical to the RS20 except with the CMD feature. I wonder if it also uses the same exact lens? I was anticipating the RS25 would be a bit sharper based on earlier reports, but the few folks that have looked at a RS20 and RS25 side by side do not report any noticeable difference here.

So, then in comes the RS35. I anticipated this would offer better convergence, better sharpness and better CR. Seems the better CR may be the only real tangible benefit (this remains to be seen but I trust for now JVC's claim of 70k:1).

...
So, then in comes the RS35. I anticipated this would offer better convergence, better sharpness and better CR. Seems the better CR may be the only real tangible benefit (this remains to be seen but I trust for now JVC's claim of 70k:1).

Me too trust in JVC, and shurely will be more CR on RS35 ;)

Anyway, turning back to all my early concerns about JVC this year pricing :rolleyes: respect to features and specs added, (posted last August and September, till annoying some among you ...) remind you all that last year we got (RS2 Vs RS20) a 20.000:1 more in CR, a new chassis and optical stright engine, more lumens, fully motorized lens + THX and CMS in 1st position, for $1000 list price less than previous model :cool:
This year .... :rolleyes: .. the JVC revenge .... :eek:

Pointing to that for depreciation value I'll upgrade anyway, I feel anyway frustrate for this year market strategy by them ... :mad:

Thanks Andreas! Was the ANSI CR measured on your friend's machine with the iris fully open? On my RS20 I measured about 230:1 with high lamp / iris fully closed, and about 280-290:1 with lamp normal / iris fully open. Sounds like nothing has changed much with regards to the ANSI.

Also on a similar note - from everything I've read so far it seems the RS25 is essentially identical to the RS20 except with the CMD feature. I wonder if it also uses the same exact lens? I was anticipating the RS25 would be a bit sharper based on earlier reports, but the few folks that have looked at a RS20 and RS25 side by side do not report any noticeable difference here.

So, then in comes the RS35. I anticipated this would offer better convergence, better sharpness and better CR. Seems the better CR may be the only real tangible benefit (this remains to be seen but I trust for now JVC's claim of 70k:1).

I think it was measured with the iris at -7.

I think it was measured with the iris at -7.

Please see if it is possible to get a measurement with lamp Normal and iris fully open, as use of the iris significantly lowers ANSI CR. This way we can get a baseline for what the unit is capable of at its maximum ANSI CR setting.

Please see if it is possible to get a measurement with lamp Normal and iris fully open, as use of the iris significantly lowers ANSI CR. This way we can get a baseline for what the unit is capable of at its maximum ANSI CR setting.

I will post the results on my unit when I get it tomorrow, my friends unit is shipped to Stavanger witch is about 310 miles from Oslo and he does not have any tools to measure ANSI contast...

My 950 measured about the same as my friends around 220:1, but mine is calibrated/measured in high mode.

And I must say all this different measurments of ANSI contrast is confusing, and I think the only way to compare is if the same person measured many different units. When a really good 950 measures 235:1 here in Norway and 573:1 i England I don´t think every calibrator measures ANSI contrast in the same way.

Sorry for my bad English! ;D

My 950 measured about the same as my friends around 220:1, but mine is calibrated/measured in high mode.

And I must say all this different measurments of ANSI contrast is confusing, and I think the only way to compare is if the same person measured many different units. When a really good 950 measures 235:1 here in Norway and 573:1 i England I don´t think every calibrator measures ANSI contrast in the same way.

Sorry for my bad English! ;D

Thanks. What are your impressions of the unit other than ANSI CR? How do you rate the sharpness? How does your convergence look (please be specific)? What projector did you have before this one?

I have had the HD1(RS1), HD100(RS2), HD750(RS25) and now I have the HD950(RS25). I rate the sharpness about the same as the 750 if not a little sharper. I also feel it has a bit more pop and I was surprised to se that the ANSI contrast was the same as my 750. I have about 0.25 pixel blue convergence in the middle of the picture, and about 0.5 on both sides. Green and red is almost nothing so it is very good.
And my calibrator said that it was much better to calibrate than the 750, even after the firmware upgrade. Colortemperature, colorspace and gamma almost perfect. And it measures about 30000:1 on/off in high mode mid to long throw with the iris fully open, and I guess without measurment about 45-50000:1 with the same throw distance with the iris fully closed. But for me with a 3m(about 10 feet) wide 1 gain screen -15 on the iris is to dim so I use -6 now.

All in all I am happy with my new unit, and I can not wait to see what JVC brings us next year!

I have had the HD1(RS1), HD100(RS2), HD750(RS25) and now I have the HD950(RS25). I rate the sharpness about the same as the 750 if not a little sharper. I also feel it has a bit more pop and I was surprised to se that the ANSI contrast was the same as my 750. I have about 0.25 pixel blue convergence in the middle of the picture, and about 0.5 on both sides. Green and red is almost nothing so it is very good.
And my calibrator said that it was much better to calibrate than the 750, even after the firmware upgrade. Colortemperature, colorspace and gamma almost perfect. And it measures about 30000:1 on/off in high mode mid to long throw with the iris fully open, and I guess without measurment about 45-50000:1 with the same throw distance with the iris fully closed. But for me with a 3m(about 10 feet) wide 1 gain screen -15 on the iris is to dim so I use -6 now.

All in all I am happy with my new unit, and I can not wait to see what JVC brings us next year!

What is the gain of your screen? (Can't tell through your link.)

What is the gain of your screen? (Can't tell through your link.)

I have a 1.0 gain 3 m wide 2.35:1 curved screen from Adeo. And it is gray.

I have had the HD1(RS1), HD100(RS2), HD750(RS25) and now I have the HD950(RS25). I rate the sharpness about the same as the 750 if not a little sharper. I also feel it has a bit more pop and I was surprised to se that the ANSI contrast was the same as my 750. I have about 0.25 pixel blue convergence in the middle of the picture, and about 0.5 on both sides. Green and red is almost nothing so it is very good.
And my calibrator said that it was much better to calibrate than the 750, even after the firmware upgrade. Colortemperature, colorspace and gamma almost perfect. And it measures about 30000:1 on/off in high mode mid to long throw with the iris fully open, and I guess without measurment about 45-50000:1 with the same throw distance with the iris fully closed. But for me with a 3m(about 10 feet) wide 1 gain screen -15 on the iris is to dim so I use -6 now.

All in all I am happy with my new unit, and I can not wait to see what JVC brings us next year!

Great. Glad you like it. I looked at the picture of your HT setup (link in your signature) and you have a beautiful room! I am a little surprised you did not go for the HD990 however. Based on your room it looks like the extra on/off CR that offers would benefit you. Why did you choose the 950 instead?

I have a 1.0 gain 3 m wide 2.35:1 curved screen from Adeo. And it is gray.

That's very good to know you don't need all the light the JVC can offer to light it up. I have a 10' wide 1.1 gain AT so when I upgrade I'm in good shape. Thanks

I don`t think any room reflectiveness limits the benefits of increased on\off CR. Of course the black level will increase and low level detail could be washed out but the on\off remains the same and that is what permits a higher gamma to be run. Since both full on\full off are affected the same by reflective surfaces, the effective on\off will not change. Room reflectiveness does limit the benefits of increased ANSI CR and will decrease it from the maximum possible from the particular projector .

Andreas21

I hope this finds you well. I am from the US (the Rocky Mountains in the state of Idaho) but I love love Norway and Oslo.

A question, but first some background.

I have to admit I am exceptionally impressed with your setup. In 1996, I went all out for a theater in a home I owned and spent over $100,000 (1996 dollars). Expensive, but fun and worth every penny.

In 2004, I scaled things back for a theater in the my current home. I bought the JVC DLA-HX 1U. It projects onto a 110" screen (Stewart Filmscreen Firehawk - 1.3 gain). The theater room is 28 feet long by 18 feet wide.

I am thinking of upgrading my projector.

Thoughts about your 950 versus the 990? Why did you choose the 950 over the 990?

What would you say is the difference I can expect to see from the 950 versus the DLA-HX 1U?

Thanks,

Jeff Lubeck

I chose the 990 for the extra year warranty and higher contrast with relatively minor difference in street price - although everyone will have different views and different ideas on what is considered relatively minor and if the differences are worth it.

I don`t think any room reflectiveness limits the benefits of increased on\off CR. Of course the black level will increase and low level detailed could be washed out but the on\off remains the same and that is what permits a higher gamma to be run. Since both full on\full off are affected the same by reflective surfaces,the effective on\off will not change. Room reflectiveness does limit the benefits of increased ANSI CR and will decrease it fromthe maximum possible from the particular projector .

Completely agree with you ;)

I have had the HD1(RS1), HD100(RS2), HD750(RS25) and now I have the HD950(RS25). I rate the sharpness about the same as the 750 if not a little sharper. I also feel it has a bit more pop and I was surprised to se that the ANSI contrast was the same as my 750. I have about 0.25 pixel blue convergence in the middle of the picture, and about 0.5 on both sides. Green and red is almost nothing so it is very good.
And my calibrator said that it was much better to calibrate than the 750, even after the firmware upgrade. Colortemperature, colorspace and gamma almost perfect. And it measures about 30000:1 on/off in high mode mid to long throw with the iris fully open, and I guess without measurment about 45-50000:1 with the same throw distance with the iris fully closed. But for me with a 3m(about 10 feet) wide 1 gain screen -15 on the iris is to dim so I use -6 now.

All in all I am happy with my new unit, and I can not wait to see what JVC brings us next year!

Interesting. See I also initially noticed it had more "pop". But I have now had to come to the conclusion it is to do with the new bulb distorting my perception. The UK review in AVForums said they could not find any difference at all between the 750 and 950. To them, the image as as close to identical as can be! So I think when I reviewed the 750, because it had 100 hours on the bulb, it made me think it had less pop when compared to the 950.

Great. Glad you like it. I looked at the picture of your HT setup (link in your signature) and you have a beautiful room! I am a little surprised you did not go for the HD990 however. Based on your room it looks like the extra on/off CR that offers would benefit you. Why did you choose the 950 instead?

I sold my 750 in august and I did not want to wait for the 990, and here in Norway the 950 cost 11000$+ and the 990 about 3000$ more. The 990 has just arrived on the market and if it has more than just extra on/off CR I will concider it. But I do not think 20000 more in on/off CR is worth the extra 3000$. I talked to my calibrator about it and he said my 950 is so good that he would not go for the 990. And I change my projector every year and I think since this year almost nothing has changed from the 750 to the 950, I expect next year will give us something really exiting...

Andreas21

I hope this finds you well. I am from the US (the Rocky Mountains in the state of Idaho) but I love love Norway and Oslo.

A question, but first some background.

I have to admit I am exceptionally impressed with your setup. In 1996, I went all out for a theater in a home I owned and spent over $100,000 (1996 dollars). Expensive, but fun and worth every penny.

In 2004, I scaled things back for a theater in the my current home. I bought the JVC DLA-HX 1U. It projects onto a 110" screen (Stewart Filmscreen Firehawk - 1.3 gain). The theater room is 28 feet long by 18 feet wide.

I am thinking of upgrading my projector.

Thoughts about your 950 versus the 990? Why did you choose the 950 over the 990?

What would you say is the difference I can expect to see from the 950 versus the DLA-HX 1U?

Thanks,

Jeff Lubeck

Hi Jeff!

Your first question I think I answered it in my last post.

The difference from your old projector I think will be a huge difference! And I mean huge! I have not seen the DLA-HX 1U but I have had the RS1 and I think everything about the 950 is better. The on/off CR, the sharpness, colors is much better(with the CMS you can get perfect colorspace, but you need a pro to do this), the fan noise is lower and as I said everything is better.

Interesting. See I also initially noticed it had more "pop". But I have now had to come to the conclusion it is to do with the new bulb distorting my perception. The UK review in AVForums said they could not find any difference at all between the 750 and 950. To them, the image as as close to identical as can be! So I think when I reviewed the 750, because it had 100 hours on the bulb, it made me think it had less pop when compared to the 950.

I agree with you on that, my HD750 had 280 hours on it and my HD950 has about 70 hours. I ran it for 50 hours on high mode before I sendt it to my calibrator, it had 65 hours on it when I got it back. And I have not seen the 750 and the 950 at the same time. The main difference between them is the 950 is easyer to calibrate, this I heard from my calibrator and he has now calibrated two 950´s and many 750´s...

I agree with you on that, my HD750 had 280 hours on it and my HD950 has about 70 hours. I ran it for 50 hours on high mode before I sendt it to my calibrator, it had 65 hours on it when I got it back. And I have not seen the 750 and the 950 at the same time. The main difference between them is the 950 is easyer to calibrate, this I heard from my calibrator and he has now calibrated two 950´s and many 750´s...

And things like sharpness are similar, and CMD is not making a difference? Motion blur is similar? Any red/green color fringing in white edges during pans or horizontal motion?

As a 750 owner, the 950/990 120 hz panels and CMD for 1080i sport viewing is something I was very interested in hearing as a "definite" improvement...perhaps it's still too early, but it seems almost everyone is looking at CMD for 1080/24, but very little comment on 1080i/60.

And things like sharpness are similar, and CMD is not making a difference? Motion blur is similar? Any red/green color fringing in white edges during pans or horizontal motion?

As a 750 owner, the 950/990 120 hz panels and CMD for 1080i sport viewing is something I was very interested in hearing as a "definite" improvement...perhaps it's still too early, but it seems almost everyone is looking at CMD for 1080/24, but very little comment on 1080i/60.

I find the 950 a little sharper. The CMD does not work with 1080p/24, but it works fine with 1080i( I have not tested it, but my calibrator said it looks good on 1080i from HDTV). Red/green color fringing in white edges is still there.

I find the 950 a little sharper. The CMD does not work with 1080p/24, but it works fine with 1080i( I have not tested it, but my calibrator said it looks good on 1080i from HDTV). Red/green color fringing in white edges is still there.

Thank you for the update - the red/green fringing is a real disappointment...

For me, it is quickly looking like a no-upgrade season and wait until next year...

I sold my 750 in august and I did not want to wait for the 990, and here in Norway the 950 cost 11000$+ and the 990 about 3000$ more. The 990 has just arrived on the market and if it has more than just extra on/off CR I will concider it. But I do not think 20000 more in on/off CR is worth the extra 3000$. I talked to my calibrator about it and he said my 950 is so good that he would not go for the 990. And I change my projector every year and I think since this year almost nothing has changed from the 750 to the 950, I expect next year will give us something really exiting...

Makes - sense - I do not think I would pay $3k more either.

i dont' remember seeing this article previously, but it seems to say the D-ILA panels for the hd990/rs35 are different than in the 950. or does "new D-ILA device with a higher-precision wire-grid" just mean hand-picked, cream of the crop?

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/reviews/new_reviews/jvc+dla+hd950+exclusive+hands+preview+05+09+09
Intriguingly, Steven Carter still has one more D-ILA model to introduce this year: the DLA-HD990. ‘I can’t tell you much about it,’ he told me. ‘It will have a greater native contrast ratio of around 70,000:1, up on the 950’s 50,000:1, derived from a new D-ILA device with a higher-precision wire grid. And it will probably sell for around £10,000.’

One year after the HD 750 release and JVC repeats it, as the HD 950, with very few improvements over its predecessor. It doesn't make very sense.


For me this can only means they will be working in revolutionary things to throw next year, not just evolutionary. This year they're guaranteed to have the best below 10.000 bucks.



As it was stated beforem the hd 950 is the reference pj so far. I don't think the VW 85 will do much better than it (if it does) and Epsons, Panasonics, etc, from what I'm hearing, though with some increases, are no match to jvc up today technology. What other pj will pair it up?

I am contemplating upping my budget to get an RS-15. I do not have any direct experience with the JVCs, so I have no idea the magnitude of the color saturation issue.

Is there a side-by-side comparision screenshot that might highlight what the effect is, and its degree?

I likely wouldn't ever get WAF approval to jump up to the RS-25 or RS-20, so it's really about the 8500UB or Panny ae4000 vs the RS-15 for me.

You could also get the Sony HW15 in there in that budget - not sure if you like it or not, just saying it is comparable

One year after the HD 750 release and JVC repeats it, as the HD 950, with very few improvements over its predecessor. It doesn't make very sense.

For me this can only means they will be working in revolutionary things to throw next year, not just evolutionary. This year they're guaranteed to have the best below 10.000 bucks.

I don't know... I remember JVC G10, G11, G15, M20, G150. All based on the same chip/design, but with incremental improvments. I still think Sony SXRD is rooted in JVC IP, but the compitition lit a fire under JVC and we saw some big gains. Now that they're back out in front, I'm afraid we may see them returning to their old ways.

I am contemplating upping my budget to get an RS-15. I do not have any direct experience with the JVCs, so I have no idea the magnitude of the color saturation issue.

Is there a side-by-side comparision screenshot that might highlight what the effect is, and its degree?

I likely wouldn't ever get WAF approval to jump up to the RS-25 or RS-20, so it's really about the 8500UB or Panny ae4000 vs the RS-15 for me.

If as Source you use a HTPC you'll be able to install and use a software CMS to correct the oversatured and gamut in RS10/HD350 or in the new RS15/HD550 ;)

A friend of mine get rid of it with excellent results ;)
Obviously, in this point, You'll have to "fight" with a PC machine and as many knows, not easy to assemble, install, tune and in costant manteniance over a stand-alone dedicate Player ;)

Unluckly, with a dedicate Player to access to a CSM there are 2 ways:
1) RS20/RS25/RS35
2) Radiance XE
;)

If as Source you use a HTPC you'll be able to install and use a software CMS to correct the oversatured and gamut in RS10/HD350 or in the new RS15/HD550 ;)

A friend of mine get rid of it with excellent results ;)
Obviously, in this point, You'll have to "fight" with a PC machine and as many knows, not easy to assemble, install, tune and in costant manteniance over a stand-alone dedicate Player ;)

Unluckly, with a dedicate Player to access to a CSM there are 2 ways:
1) RS20/RS25/RS35
2) Radiance XE
;)
Or find a used Lumagen HDP or HDQ for perfectly acceptable "mitigation" IMHO.
Is a PC based CMS available for HD content yet, like Blu-ray? I've only seen discussion of DVD capability.

..
Is a PC based CMS available for HD content yet, like Blu-ray? I've only seen discussion of DVD capability.

Yes ! He made ( assebled and installed ) a HTPC with CMS soft for BD and Hd contents ;)
Anyway not an easy task ... too .. it works with LUTs ...

Yes ! He made ( assebled and installed ) a HTPC with CMS soft for BD and Hd contents ;)
Anyway not an easy task ... too .. it works with LUTs ...

Was that the thread on AVS or somewhere else? I'm very interested in this.

I don't know where he has documented from .... ( I'm too lazy for try this solution and prefer a stand-alone player to lit and play :D )
Anyway I can make you in contact with him so he can share with you how he done and what to use ;)

From what I gather here, the RS15 / HD550's only significant "improvement" over the RS10 / HD350 is the CMD.
Is that right?

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmRQp-oXX6M)

From what I gather here, the RS15 / HD550's only significant "improvement" over the RS10 / HD350 is the CMD.
Is that right?

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmRQp-oXX6M)

there are also the double secret optical improvements mentioned here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17073115&postcount=5), but the increase in ANSI contrast has not been measured yet.

And if JVC wants to keep how it obtained extra sharpness from what it had last year it a quadruple secret from its competitors, what`s the big dea? Maybe they should just give it away so you guys will fee lbetter about JVC..

And if JVC wants to keep how it obtained extra sharpness from what it had last year it a quadruple secret from its competitors, what`s the big dea? Maybe they should just give it away so you guys will fee lbetter about JVC..

no big deal at all. i think you're reading too much into my post. i need to use more emoticons i guess. ;)

And if JVC wants to keep how it obtained extra sharpness from what it had last year it a quadruple secret from its competitors, what`s the big dea? Maybe they should just give it away so you guys will fee lbetter about JVC..

I'm not sure how "big" the secret could be anyway, considering that the sharpness improvement has been described as a tad sharper than the RS20 at best, or just about the same.

Pretty soon we will have MTF measurements of a variety of projectors. It would be interesting if we can find some AVS forum members with an RS20, RS25, and an RS35 in the San Diego area that could be borrowed and used for MTF testing. .MTF testing is nondestructive and does not involve any dissambly of a projector.

(From JVC RS25/15 Brochure) - To display TV broadcasts or commercially available DVDs created using the 2-3 pulldown process, the inverse telecine function re-converts the video source back to a 24fps signal and displays it at double speed or 48 fps, ensuring cinema-like viewing faithful to the original source.

Does this mean that the new JVC's are doing a FRAME RATE CONVERSION of Film sourced 1080/60i and 480/60i material, converting the film sourced material to 1080/24p then displaying it at 1080/48p? Did the RS10/RS20 do this? Normal inverse telecine does NOT involve a frame rate conversion to an EVEN multiple of 24 for film sourced material, but rather a conversion to 60hz (or multiple of 60hz) of all material whether film or video sourced.

If so this is a much more sophisticated inverse telecine function, previously only found on some Video Processors and HD source devices like the Oppo BD player.

Is the brochure description inaccurate? This seems a pretty innovative and novel feature, doing an automatic frame rate conversion of 60i material and displaying it without the 3-2 cadence common to such inverse telecine processing.
__________________

..........
Does this mean that the new JVC's are doing a FRAME RATE CONVERSION of Film sourced 1080/60i and 480/60i material, converting the film sourced material to 1080/24p then displaying it at 1080/48p?....

NO only 480i/60 matherial ;) and is outed to 1080p24 .
You'll adviced when this function is engaged due to hdmi handshake time ....

I've tried this function on Oppo BDP-83 :cool: But I must say, it works well only on perfect coded SD sources, otherwise you will have the Jaggies Party !! :eek: :D :D especially viewable during smooth pannings or around writings .. :(
I keep this function OFF almost all the Time :D

How do you keep that feature off or on? Is it the FILM MODE setting in the menu? Auto means it will shift to 1080/24p for 480/60i film sourced material via auto detection, FILM means its always converting 480/60i to 1080/24p and OFF means never converts 480/60i to 1080/24p.

I guess to frame rate convert 1080/60i to 1080/24p I still have to use my Lumagen video processor or something similar, correct?


Did last years Projectors have this feature?

When I decide to use this function ( on perfect material ) I engage the Function settind DVD/SD 24p to ON.
My settings for deinterlace flag ( Auto, Film, Video, Off ) is always set to AUTO. I'm shure it is outed to 24p due to hdmi handshake and vpr that reports 1080p24 ;) ( with other souces like 576i PAL it does nothing ;) )
Anyway, I repeat, often this function introduce several artifacts in Jaggies if source material isn't almost perfect as it was coded so it remains a function to try time by time, case for case ... :o
Mainly I turned it to OFF so I know to didn't introduce nothing in artifacts ;)


No.... last year JVC vprs didn't have this function ... but me apologize with you, I really think that some processing functions are better to resiede in an external processor or at last in a source Player ! This like philosophy ;) and this, imho, either for FI or CMD that in my opinion soon will appear on source players ;)
The display, either panels or vprs, "Must do the display" so welcome to CMS and Sub-Pixel Convergence adjusts trick ( aka Sony) .. bust STOP !! :D

(From JVC RS25/15 Brochure) - To display TV broadcasts or commercially available DVDs created using the 2-3 pulldown process, the inverse telecine function re-converts the video source back to a 24fps signal and displays it at double speed or 48 fps, ensuring cinema-like viewing faithful to the original source.

Does this mean that the new JVC's are doing a FRAME RATE CONVERSION of Film sourced 1080/60i and 480/60i material, converting the film sourced material to 1080/24p then displaying it at 1080/48p? Did the RS10/RS20 do this? Normal inverse telecine does NOT involve a frame rate conversion to an EVEN multiple of 24 for film sourced material, but rather a conversion to 60hz (or multiple of 60hz) of all material whether film or video sourced.

If so this is a much more sophisticated inverse telecine function, previously only found on some Video Processors and HD source devices like the Oppo BD player.

Is the brochure description inaccurate? This seems a pretty innovative and novel feature, doing an automatic frame rate conversion of 60i material and displaying it without the 3-2 cadence common to such inverse telecine processing.
__________________

The RS10/RS20 did IT deinterlacing as did the RS1/RS2, but they didn't have a dedicated "Film" mode, only the Auto/Off modes and in Auto mode the projector could switch back and forth if the mastering was done poorly as Highlander mentions. In reviews I've read, the current Reon chip (RS10 onwards) does a better job than the Gennum chip in the RS1/RS2

The projector has 2 types of deinterlacing. Inverse Telecine (IT) and Motion-Adaptive. IT is for film sourced material and Motion-Adaptive algorithms are for video based sources. If you have 1080i/60 that was film based created with a Telecine process, the projector should, in theory, also apply IT just as on 480i. If the 1080i/60 is video based, like HDTV, it should, in theory, apply motion-adaptive deinterlacing.

Inverse Telecine is, by definition, an algorithm reversing the Telecine process that creates 60fps streams from 24fps content so the output goal of IT or Film Mode is to recreate the original 24p from the film source.

This has been in projector VP chipsets for years, but as you say, can be dependent on manufacturers implementation. As mentioned previously, my 5 year old projector has an On/Off Film Mode for selecting IT processing and also doubles the frame rate to 48fps. :D

From my InFocus Screenplay 7205 brochure (c) 2004
including 60Hz to 48Hz conversion of NTSC film-based content

I really think that some processing functions are better to resiede in an external processor or at last in a source Player ! This like philosophy ;) and this, imho, either for FI or CMD that in my opinion soon will appear on source players ;)


one issue with having the FI/CMD in the source is increased bandwidth requirements for the interconnects. we'll all need to redo our in wall cabling with nifty HDMI 1.4 cabling ;)

The RS10/RS20 did IT deinterlacing as did the RS1/RS2, but they didn't have a dedicated "Film" mode, only the Auto/Off modes and in Auto mode the projector could switch back and forth if the mastering was done poorly as Highlander mentions. In reviews I've read, the current Reon chip (RS10 onwards) does a better job than the Gennum chip in the RS1/RS2

The projector has 2 types of deinterlacing. Inverse Telecine (IT) and Motion-Adaptive. IT is for film sourced material and Motion-Adaptive algorithms are for video based sources. If you have 1080i/60 that was film based created with a Telecine process, the projector should, in theory, also apply IT just as on 480i. If the 1080i/60 is video based, like HDTV, it should, in theory, apply motion-adaptive deinterlacing.

Inverse Telecine is, by definition, an algorithm reversing the Telecine process that creates 60fps streams from 24fps content so the output goal of IT or Film Mode is to recreate the original 24p from the film source.

This has been in projector VP chipsets for years, but as you say, can be dependent on manufacturers implementation. As mentioned previously, my 5 year old projector has an On/Off Film Mode for selecting IT processing and also doubles the frame rate to 48fps. :D


You're descriptions are correct but this is NOT a new feature. The Gennum and Reon chips both have zero issues when it comes to motion adaptive de-interlacing of HD signals (with their "Auto" modes"). It is debatable whether the new Reon processing has any advantage/disadvantage over the Gennum and I would be willing to say there isn't except for what it may do for JVC in terms of internal processing. My Planar projector uses the Gennum for its processing and has no issue at all with film or video based HD/SD deinterlacing. The Reon processor in my A/V processor is the same, I've tested both extensively.

My guess is JVC just didn't use this as an advertising claim, despite the fact that they've had this base covered for years now, including the RS1. Anyone with an older JVC that would like to test just use the Spears/Munsil HD Test disc with a BD player set to 1080i and play the test pattern that looks like a clock in the deinterlacing tests. Enjoy!!

Highlander_AVS: Where in the JVC menu is there a DVD/SD 24p you can set to ON? I don't have the projector setup yet, but in the manual there is no mention of a DVD/SD setting at all.

-Roger

Highlander_AVS: Where in the JVC menu is there a DVD/SD 24p you can set to ON? I don't have the projector setup yet, but in the manual there is no mention of a DVD/SD setting at all.

-Roger

i'm pretty sure he was referring to a setting in his Oppo BDP-83 not JVC PJ

Correct ;)
I spoke about this function because someone reported that it could be a new feature added to the New models and gave it a relieve.
As I tried this function on a processor, before, and on Oppo BDP-83 now I only have puntualized that is a plus that works well only in particular conditions ;)

As I just come back from 3 days of shootout ( RS15, RS25, VW10, VW85 and KH5080) I've not seen this function in the JVC menues .... :rolleyes: I'll try to search better ....

Correct ;)
I spoke about this function because someone reported that it could be a new feature added to the New models and gave it a relieve.
As I tried this function on a processor, before, and on Oppo BDP-83 now I only have puntualized that is a plus that works well only in particular conditions ;)

As I just come back from 3 days of shootout ( RS15, RS25, VW10, VW85 and KH5080) I've not seen this function in the JVC menues .... :rolleyes: I'll try to search better ....

Isn't it a breach of forum etiquette to say you have been at a shoot-out without giving your impressions? :)

Isn't it a breach of forum etiquette to say you have been at a shoot-out without giving your impressions? :)

You're right ;)
I'm trying to prepare a little review to post here if someone is interested in ;)

Do bears ____ in the woods? :-) Of course we are all interested!

Just checked the AVforums.com web site and there was a shoot out between the 950 and the 990. It appears that the 990 was significantly better than the 950 from what I could digest in all the forum posts. This despite all the grousing about what hand-picked parts really mean.

here is the link

http://www.avforums.com/forums/projectors/1108456-feedback-thread-jvc-event-saturday-24th.html

Those posts about how much better the 990 is to the 950 and how much better the 950is to the 550 are going to make LG need to call a plumber to remove the brick when it exits his rear end and gets stuck in the toilet trap.

I would like to see a RS35/990 showing side by side with my RS20; but lacking that, I am very skeptical that it is noticeably better. (I saw the RS35 and 25 at the recent CEDIA in Atlanta.)

Its hard to digest the differences between the 990 and the 950. Some say they could see a difference and others couldn't. The main point that I kept getting was the 990 with its upcharge is hard to justify. Then again the prices they pay over there are very high compared to here.

I wish they had used the same A Lens for both the 990 and the 950. Descision time here back at the farm.:D

So when & where is the US shoot out going to be?

Just checked the AVforums.com web site and there was a shoot out between the 950 and the 990. It appears that the 990 was significantly better than the 950 from what I could digest in all the forum posts. This despite all the grousing about what hand-picked parts really mean.

here is the link

http://www.avforums.com/forums/projectors/1108456-feedback-thread-jvc-event-saturday-24th.html



Actually it started off with a few people saying how much better the 990 was to the 950...but then later posts said they couldn't really see much of a difference, and certainly not one that qualified the extra cost. So there was a range of opinions!

Once again from my own experience, I know how difficult it is to compare, especially if the bulbs are different ages, or age differently. A brighter bulb can really throw your perception.

EDIT: GaryB from JVC replied to me to say
We deliberately aged the lamp on the 990 to make it a fair comparison. It was running in our workshop from the day it arrived until the afternoon before the demo and had about 120 hours on it by Saturday. The 950 was Steve's demo unit and has a similar number of hours on it.


The thing is, I am sure there is a difference that is noticeable in a perfect batcave. What I am curious to know is, how that difference translates in a less than ideal room. Although the on/off remains the same whether in a batcave or not, what I have found is that when black level goes above a certain point (e.g. like a threshold), your brain just says "this isn't black". So if enough light is reflected back onto the screen, it doesn't matter if the projector is rated at 50000:1 or 75000:1, you have lifted the blacks to a point where you just don't see it as black anymore.

IMHO, it's almost true what you're saying, anyway, I think that either in a not ideal room you'll have a bit of improvement. This could not be true for the low end of IRE scale, but at 40 IRE ( very important for me ) you'll finish with more dynamics :cool:

I would like to see a RS35/990 showing side by side with my RS20; but lacking that, I am very skeptical that it is noticeably better. (I saw the RS35 and 25 at the recent CEDIA in Atlanta.)

Don't get me wrong; if I didn't have a pj now, or had one several years old, I would be buying a RS35. Having a RS20, though, the increment is not enough to activate my upgrade bug this year.

Me too own a RS20 perfect and selected ... anyway I'm agree that the increment is a bit low for the money I'll add, but also depreciation of my actual vpr next year will be too high ... :o
I'm most obliged to upgrade :( and for me could be a no sense doing this for RS25 ... so, I must point up, over and try to get a RS35 .... :eek:

Actually it started off with a few people saying how much better the 990 was to the 950...but then later posts said they couldn't really see much of a difference, and certainly not one that qualified the extra cost. So there was a range of opinions!

In reading the posts - the extra costs that were quoted seemed much greater than is the case in the United States. Also the people noticing a difference seemed to out weigh the ones that did not - and mentioned that the A/B comparison was what enabled them to notice the difference.

I would be hard pressed to think that an increase in resolution of 20K would not show some difference in an A/B comparison

Me too own a RS20 perfect and selected ... anyway I'm agree that the increment is a bit low for the money I'll add, but also depreciation of my actual vpr next year will be too high ... :o
I'm most obliged to upgrade :( and for me could be a no sense doing this for RS25 ... so, I must point up, over and try to get a RS35 .... :eek:
Please tell us again how perfect and how selected:):D:eek:

Does anyone know what the "lens position reset" does in the service menu? I thought it would re-centralise the lens...but it appears to do nothing!

Does anyone know what the "lens position reset" does in the service menu? I thought it would re-centralise the lens...but it appears to do nothing!

Not sure, never tried it. However I assumed like you did that this option would move the lens back to its centered position, both horizontally and vertically. No? :confused:

Not sure, never tried it. However I assumed like you did that this option would move the lens back to its centered position, both horizontally and vertically. No? :confused:

I have figured it out. Basically, DO NOT TOUCH!

I have no idea why this menu option is there but it is a dangerous one. It doesn't move the lens. What it does is take the current lens position as centre. Then it limits the movements so you don't "hit the end" in any direction!

I realised after I had tried this option, that I could shift lower than before...but then I heard the motor strain at the end. It is very lucky I did no damage. I carefully centered the lens after this and then used this option again to reset it back. And since then it stops before you get to the ends in any direction.

It is a very strange option to provide. Because JVC do have another menu apparently that only their engineers can access that includes things like a lifetime timer. There is nothing else in the menu we can access that can possibly do any harm....so why they made this accessible is very odd indeed.

The only thing I can think of, is that there is the possibility that it gets confused/drifts as it isn't a proper positional memory as such. Therefore the option is there so you can re-teach it where centre is.

Because JVC do have another menu apparently that only their engineers can access that includes things like a lifetime timer.

That's not accessed by a menu. It's accessed by special Service software. In the wrong hands, that really can do some damage.

Please tell us again how perfect and how selected:):D:eek:

NO !! Will only send a PM directly to You, with step by step of how was done ! Long long long message .... :D:D:D:)

Has anyone thought of doing a JVC shoot out of all these projectors? JVC did a great shoot out in Europe which was well received. It seems like we should be able to get something together in the US. Maybe throw in the Sony to make it really interesting.

Unluckly ... No time at now to make a Full Review in English ..
But here are the links at my posts for a brief report to the Shootout held in Perugia by HCS last weeked.

Event News:
http://www.avmagazine.it/news/videoproiettori/shoot-out-da-hcs-il-24-e-25-ottobre_4719.html

My reports (2 posts):
http://www.avmagazine.it/forum/showpost.php?p=2120606&postcount=75
http://www.avmagazine.it/forum/showpost.php?p=2120607&postcount=76

Sorry for not to translate for you ... but really realy busy at now ....

Next weekend, HCS will reply in Milan in Spazio2M Rooms:
http://www.avmagazine.it/news/videoproiettori/shoot-out-da-spazio2m-il-31-10-e-1-11_4729.html

My 2 cents ;)

A quick cut and paste into babble fish and although hard to decipher it looks like they reviewed VIVITEK KH5080, JVC RS 15, JVC RS 25, and Sony VW 85. From what I could translate it seems that the JVC RS 25 was the winner because of the black levels in native contrast and the CMS capabilities. At least that is what I came away with - but I am not fluent in Italian and Babble Fish is far from perfect.

A quick cut and paste into babble fish and although hard to decipher it looks like they reviewed VIVITEK KH5080, JVC RS 15, JVC RS 25, and Sony VW 85. From what I could translate it seems that the JVC RS 25 was the winner because of the black levels in native contrast and the CMS capabilities. At least that is what I came away with - but I am not fluent in Italian and Babble Fish is far from perfect.

Thanks very much for the summary Richard!

This thread needs deleted.

This thread needs deleted.

why not just let it die in peace? :)

Hi Kutlow. Are you back in Alabama enjoying your new machine? If you are in WV, give me a PM. I'd like to have you over my house and HT in Maryland. Spending a night no problem, lots of guest rooms and being on lake is real nice..

Hi Kutlow. Are you back in Alabama enjoying your new machine? If you are in WV, give me a PM. I'd like to have you over my house and HT in Maryland. Spending a night no problem, lots of guest rooms and being on lake is real nice..

Hey Mark. No Im back in Alabama now. Had to make it a fast trip because my son (9) had to miss school. I had to go to my neurosurgeon for a follow up to surgery from my back operation. Have you had a chance to witness the Sony 85? I hear it's a good machine. The same invite if you ever come this way. If you ever travel to the Gulf Shores for the beach stop by for a pitstop and rest. Your more than invited. Just bring along all your calibration tools. :D It sucks being in an area that does not have other forum members nearby. I would love to come to a shoot out on av equiptment. :)

Who was it that reported using slight amount of lens shift actually improved contrast? I believed he even measured the improvement. Has anyobody experienced this?

Just installed a 990 yesterday, want to get some quick advice on setup prior to my ISF calibration. I am running it with a 120" Firehawk G3 (1.3 gain). Projector is 18 feet back from the screen. I'm running in THX mode for now. Room has some ambient light - totally unusable during the day but fairly dark at night.

I have the bulb set to High (instead of Normal) right now. Should I be running it Normal and open up the iris? Or keep it at High for max light output? What does running it in High do to contrast and depth?

I'm a total newbie to the projection space so I have ZERO experience with these things. Also, I couldn't find the iris setting, is this hidden somewhere in the menu structure?

Thanks for the help. Will post pictures as soon as I tweak it a bit...

I just installed an RS35 and when configuring the DirecTV resolution outputs, the projector will not accept the 1080p signal from the H24. It accepts all other resolutions; is this normal?

Reputable Calibrator in San Diego?