Info (http://www.hembioconsult.se/partnerfiles/hembioconsult/pdf/vpl-vw85.pdf)

Thanks gamelover! :)

Thanks gamelover! :)

The only problem with the vw-85 here is Sweden is the price. It is 70 000 sek, with is $10,000. Yes, the dollar is weak now, but still, they aren't giving these Pj's away. The Epson 5500 (8500 in the US) is half the price, and I will have to demo both to see how much better the Sony is. Decisions, decisions.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/frontprojectors/sony_bravia_vpl-vw85_sxrd_projector/

They didn't use the dark frame insertion though, and measured less contrast than the VW70, which is wrong.

Wow, they measured only 4.5k:1 native contrast ratio! That's less than what the Norwegian HW15 review measured! Something is off here... :confused:

What type of measuring device is Mr. Norton using?

dissapointing the review didn't mention ansi or the related pop it may produce. That is the main selling point over a JVC. The JVC will produce better blacks without using a dynamic iris, so the sony needs to have better pop on all scenes except very low apl. No comparisons.....weak review.

The thing that is annoying with reviews that contain no comparisons (due to keeping advertisers happy I am sure) is that we don't get a sense for what the price premium of the new Sony yields over lower price competitors (like the Epson, etc.) A lot of these Pj reviews are starting to sound eerily similar, and the only difference seems to be the fucntioning of the dynamic iris and the subjective black levels. I guess that is a testament to how good the mid level 1080p Pj's have become, but as a consumer I am interested in A\B comparisions, as this is what will inform my buying decisions.

Art at Pj reviews does the best job IMO, because no one is more thourough and does any many comparisons. Very helpful for the consumer. Comparisons can be done in a respectful way, where the price points are considered as well. Just beacuse the JVC throws a better picture than the Panny doesn't mean the Panny gets trashed, just honest info with price considered as well.

Wow, they measured only 4.5k:1 native contrast ratio! That's less than what the Norwegian HW15 review measured! Something is off here... :confused:Thats less than 50% of his VW70 measurements.

Note also that even with the iris set to maximum in Manual mode, the measured black level was still superb (approximately 0.002 foot-lamberts with a white level of 17.94 ft-L).
While everyone else is trying to raise their CR, Sony is halving theirs :confused: Brilliant strategy :eek:

Perhaps the VW70 was setup at maximum throw and the VW85 at minimum throw. Given that the aperture of the lens varies with throw, this could account for a large part of the reduced measured contrast and increased brightness of the VW85.

What is the truth on these contrast measurements?

I would like to know the truth as well.

but you know it can't be good, otherwise they would advertise it. The only honest on off measurement I know of (or darn close anyway) is JVC. JVC looking better by the day.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/frontprojectors/sony_bravia_vpl-vw85_sxrd_projector/

They didn't use the dark frame insertion though, and measured less contrast than the VW70, which is wrong.

Would have been nice if they DID test the MotionFlow and DFI as well, since its a major bullet point for the projector...seemed like a rushed review frankly....

BTW, the screen throw charts Sony use is based on diagonal screen measurement, not width, correct? If so, the 85 is out for me...I'm about 265" back from a 119" diagonal 16:9 screen :mad:

BTW, the screen throw charts Sony use is based on diagonal screen measurement, not width, correct? If so, the 85 is out for me...I'm about 265" back from a 119" diagonal 16:9 screen :mad:
Min throw ratio for the Sonys is 1.47. Which means that the projector must be at least 1.47 x screen width away. Max throw ratio 2.18. That applies to both the HW15 and VW85, IIRC.

I will make a few comments.
1 I believe in the 20k+:1 native contrast previously reporter for vpl-vw85.
2 The disappointing numbers come from reading off the screen and the error most likely lies in ambient light that varies between reviews.
3 The contrast setting in the review seem low, 70, it is normal for Sony projectors to calibrate close to 90 in contrast. It is easy to get low native contrast with a raised brightness or low ire controls (are they called bias or off set?)

TJN: I am reviewing the demo VW85 with 150 hours that you gave me.
Sony: Its fantastic, best image we have ever produced.
TJN: There seems to be a problem with it. It is supposed to produce twice the contrast of the previous VW70, right?
Sony: I’m not sure what you mean by contrast but its fantastic, best image we have ever produced.
TJN: It’s measuring half the contrast that I measured for the older VW70! Could it be defective?
Sony: Half the contrast? Maybe less contrast is better. Its fantastic, best image we have ever produced.
TJN: How do you plan to sell the VW85 with less than half the contrast of a VW70. Who would buy it?
Sony: Its fantastic, best image we have ever produced.
:cool::cool:

Tom uses a Minolta LS-110 for his contrast measurements and always does them exactly the same from projector to projector.

As for comparisons, that is usually a result of what is available for comparitives. Tom said he had a RS1 available, but even that isn't really a fair comparison given how many models JVC has released since. Most reviewers don't feel comfortable comparing displays they don't have on hand directly. Shane and I did some comparisons to the HD-750 and Darin and Shane also looked at them as well, but that was outside of Tom's review. I'm sure Darin could chime in with some info on his observations.

Tom uses a Minolta LS-110 for his contrast measurements and always does them exactly the same from projector to projector.

As for comparisons, that is usually a result of what is available for comparitives. Tom said he had a RS1 available, but even that isn't really a fair comparison given how many models JVC has released since. Most reviewers don't feel comfortable comparing displays they don't have on hand directly. Shane and I did some comparisons to the HD-750 and Darin and Shane also looked at them as well, but that was outside of Tom's review. I'm sure Darin could chime in with some info on his observations.

Do you have any comments on the VW-85 and the 750. Thanks.

Shane and I did some comparisons to the HD-750 and Darin and Shane also looked at them as well, but that was outside of Tom's review. I'm sure Darin could chime in with some info on his observations.
Any comments from any of you guys would be greatly appreciated.

The situation is quite confusing. The HW15 was measured in Norway with twice as much native contrast ratio as the hometheatermag.com review measured for the VW85. Also a Norwegian print magazine measured the VW85 with about 20k:1 *native* contrast ratio. That all just doesn't match the hometheatermag review.

Is it possible that Sony projectors have such a great unit-to-unit variance? Maybe the Norwegian testers got very good units (much better than average) and hometheatermag got a much worse than average unit? I don't know how else to explain this...

Tom uses a Minolta LS-110 ...Just a quick correction (I think). I think Tom uses the LS-100 (which is better down low than the LS-110).
The situation is quite confusing.I completely agree. I got to see this VW85 and measure it with a Minolta T-10 meter I bought (this meter points toward the projector and I measured fairly close to it). I haven't read Tom's review, but his measurements don't look much different than what I got. Maybe this is just a poor example from Sony (or both our meters are off). Also, Tom did leave some room above video 235 as his contrast setting used basically shows. This VW85 didn't measure much different for on/off CR or ANSI CR than the VW80 I had last year. And that was for the center of the screen. Besides that, 2 of the corners were brighter on blackouts on this VW85 (I don't remember if the VW80 I had was the same). I hope their average VW85s are much better for on/off CR (more like the unit measured in Norway).

--Darin

In the end I think vw85 will perform better than the latest measurements we have talked about.
Conspiracy mode on
Sony wants to sell vw200s in the US market and makes bad vw85s and hw15s for the US market. I think the volumes of the vw200 are so low in Europe that they need the vw85 and hw15 to perform all that they can.

Remember HoustonHoyaFan have had info about better panels and we have heard about the tweaked engine. I believe a contrast boost will turn out to be real once products start shipping at least in most markets.

In the end I think vw85 will perform better than the latest measurements we have talked about.
Conspiracy mode on
Sony wants to sell vw200s in the US market and makes bad vw85s and hw15s for the US market. I think the volumes of the vw200 are so low in Europe that they need the vw85 and hw15 to perform all that they can.

Remember HoustonHoyaFan have had info about better panels and we have heard about the tweaked engine. I believe a contrast boost will turn out to be real once products start shipping at least in most markets.

So Sony sends out a bad review sample?

I assume that all manufacturers cherry pick review samples. They would be stupid not to do that.

Also, you can now pick up a vw-200 (refurbished from Sony) for less than a new vw-85.

This seems like the year of the phoned in projector models.

While this Sony review had some of the good characteristics I enjoy from Tom Norton's reviews, two glaring issues stood out:

1. Why in the world would he mention yet not test the dark frame insertion feature? It's one of the selling points of the Sony projectors, and especially for film enthusiasts that feature is an attempt to create more film-like motion.
I mean...all you have to do is turn it on and take a look.

2. The review mentions over and over how the VW85 is a brighter projector and makes issue of it's significance....without ever telling us how much brighter it is or how many ANSI lumens it puts out! It's not even given in the manufacturer specs in the review! That is just bizarre. And not helpful at all to someone trying to calculate if the projector's brightness suits his needs. (Which is why reviews that include the projector's brightness measured at low and high bulb settings are helpful as a touchstone).

ETA: I see they measured twice the peak white levels on the W85 vs the W70. Still, it would be nice to have been give luman output measurements.

...
I completely agree. I got to see this VW85 and measure it with a Minolta T-10 meter I bought (this meter points toward the projector and I measured fairly close to it). I haven't read Tom's review, but his measurements don't look much different than what I got. ...TJN seems to have measured the VW85 at ~50% of the CR of the VW70

Did you also measure a 50% drop in CR?

HD350 (RS10) 16,558:1
VW70 8.97K:1 off, 23.2K:1 auto
VW85 4.5K:1 off, 12.83K:1 auto

Your last Year VW80 measurements were at iris min (9K:1 to 12K:1) and not directly comparable.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15384110#post15384110

...2. The review mentions over and over how the VW85 is a brighter projector and makes issue of it's significance....without ever telling us how much brighter it is or how many ANSI lumens it puts out!...He does say it was measured on a 78" wide ST130 with a 1.3 gain and produces 29.65 f-l peak white. I guess he wants to test our middle school math :)

He does say it was measured on a 78" wide ST130 with a 1.3 gain and produces 29.65 f-l peak white. I guess he wants to test our middle school math :)

540 lumens? Tell me my math is wrong!

540 lumens? Tell me my math is wrong!Bill, still in middle school after all these years and assumed 16x9 :D

TJN seems to have measured the VW85 at ~50% of the CR of the VW70

Did you also measure a 50% drop in CR?

VW70 8.97K:1 off, 23.2K:1 auto
VW85 4.5K:1 off, 12.83K:1 auto

Your last Year VW80 measurements were at iris min (9K:1 to 12K:1) and not directly comparable.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15384110#post15384110I had misread your earlier numbers as being from the VW80 review and not the VW70 review. I would have to go look back at my notes and I'm not sure how Tom had the throw ratio for the review numbers compared to when I got to see it, but from memory of looking at my notes this morning I believe Tom measured it with contrast at 70 and I did some measurements with it at 87 (clipping a little above 235) and got about 10k:1 on/off CR with the manual iris at the minimum on the VW85. It was lower with the iris open, but I would have to go back to my notes.

--Darin

Bill, still in middle school after all these years and assumed 16x9 :D

Tom's screen is specified at 78" wide and there is no mention of it being a 2:35:1 screen (which would result in an absurdly small 16:9 image). Surely 16x9 is the reasonable assumption. :confused:

Apart from slightly undersaturated green, it doesn’t get much better than this.


That makes this projector a show stopper for me. Doesn't get much better than this? I assume based on this statement the reviewer has not personally had a chance to work with the CMS on the JVC RS20/HD750 (which gets it 100% perfect, actually).

Tom's screen is specified at 78" wide and there is no mention of it being a 2:35:1 screen (which would result in an absurdly small 16:9 image). Surely 16x9 is the reasonable assumption. :confused:I agreed with Bill's calculations.
542 lumens even on a 150 hour lamp is not very bright IMO, it is average.

That makes this projector a show stopper for me. Doesn't get much better than this? I assume based on this statement the reviewer has not personally had a chance to work with the CMS on the JVC RS20/HD750 (which gets it 100% perfect, actually).Why assume that? He didn't say it doesn't get better, he said it didn't get "much better". Looks to me like Normal might be at or just outside SMPTE-C primaries with Wide1 just a little outside REC.709 for green and red. I would probably go with Wide1 myself.

Have you tried SMPTE-C primaries versus REC.709 primaries. I would consider the red better with REC.709 myself, but not sure I would even call that "much better". Just a little better to my eyes. Have you compared setting the RS20 up with your 100% perfect primaries versus just inside or just outside?

--Darin

That makes this projector a show stopper for me. Doesn't get much better than this? I assume based on this statement the reviewer has not personally had a chance to work with the CMS on the JVC RS20/HD750 (which gets it 100% perfect, actually).Why assume that? He didn't say it doesn't get better, he said it didn't get "much better". Looks to me like Normal might be at or just outside SMPTE-C primaries with Wide1 just a little outside REC.709 for green and red. I would probably go with Wide1 myself.

Have you tried SMPTE-C primaries versus REC.709 primaries? I would consider the red better with REC.709 myself, but not sure I would even call that "much better". Just a little better to my preferences. Have you compared setting the RS20 up with your 100% perfect primaries versus just inside or just outside?

--Darin

I agreed with Bill's calculations.
542 lumens even on a 150 hour lamp is not very bright IMO, it is average.

One issue I find in lots of reviews is that the reviewers are very often using quite tiny screens compared to what most of us here use (and even compared to "average" screen sizes in general). So it's quite rare for them to report a projector as not being bright enough, no matter how dim it is. That's where
measurements of the actual projector light output is particularly important for us readers.

So I guess the VW85 is out? :eek: :D :rolleyes:

So Sony sends out a bad review sample?

I assume that all manufacturers cherry pick review samples. They would be stupid not to do that.

Also, you can now pick up a vw-200 (refurbished from Sony) for less than a new vw-85.

This seems like the year of the phoned in projector models.

I can absolutely ASSURE you that manufacturers don't cherry pick for reviews. I can tell you some stories that would put that statement to rest for sure. I am sure there are instances where this has happened, but it certainly is not the norm. In fact many companies send out pre-release products that are buggy as hell just so something can get out there near consumer release time!

...I believe Tom measured it with contrast at 70 and I did some measurements with it at 87 (clipping a little above 235) and got about 10k:1 on/off CR with the manual iris at the minimum on the VW85. It was lower with the iris open, but I would have to go back to my notes...It sounds like if TJN had measured the VW85 at contrast 95 as he did for the VW70 instead of at 70, the CR numbers would be about the same?

IMO this would move the review numbers from extremely alarming to very disappointing.

I suspect that this is a pre-prod bad sample. My source continues to insist that we will see production unit with CR numbers in the range of 2x the VW70, ie similar to what the units seeded to Norway are measuring.

I noticed that in Kris Deering's review of the HW10, TJN measured 6,905:1 DI :eek: while most other reviewers measured >20K:1 DI. I am told bad demo samples do occur, especially if they are sent from reviewer to reviewer!

It sounds like if TJN had measured the VW85 at contrast 95 as he did for the VW70 instead of at 70, the CR numbers would be about the same?I don't think it would have quite been there, but sounds like it would have been closer if all else was equal (I don't know how he setup the individual gains for each color for each projector aside from the Contrast setting).
I suspect that this is a pre-prod bad sample. My source continues to insist that we will see production unit with CR numbers in the range of 2x the VW70, ie similar to what the units seeded to Norway are measuring.I think many of us would be very happy if Sony would send a newer unit to Home Theater Magazine if they feel this one is an anomaly. From what Rob from Sony showed me at CEDIA they also have newer firmware with some more choices around gamma than this early VW85 had. I'm not sure what other changes might be in newer firmware, but it is possible that there have been changes to the dynamic iris algorithms since the unit Tom reviewed also.

--Darin

Why assume that? He didn't say it doesn't get better, he said it didn't get "much better".
--Darin

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I suppose then. To me, perfect is "much better" than close enough. :D

To answer your question, yes I have seen the RS20 with green similarly placed to where the VW85 measured. It doesn't look awful by any stretch, but was noticeably improved when in the correct spot - especially things such as grass and trees. On some RS20's the default THX mode measured green in this space. Also calibration attempts with the early firmware often came in around that spot.

I spent over 80 hours diagnosing the RS20 CMS errors and issues prior to the firmware update which corrected this, so I have become quite sensitive to color error as a result. Many may not care or notice a difference. To me, there is no going back now that I have a CMS that works perfectly. Lawguy made a similar comment in an RS25/35 thread and I know exactly where he is coming from. I was keeping an eye on the VW85 as a possibility, but that would have required the gamut to measure perfectly.

Also I do not believe the reviewer commented on how Y measured, which of course is not depicted in the CIE chart. And with no Y adjustment to the 6 colors on the Sony I am assuming those did not come in spot on either. Granted, that is a lot to ask for, but that is also the point of having a CMS. I really would like to have Sony include one by now.

If you look at the gamut, you will also see what looks like a fair amount of error in cyan and magenta. It would have been great if the reviewer published dE for the 6 colors. I have a feeling most if not all would be 5+, but would like to know for sure.

For OOTB the Normal colour space looks pretty good and will keep the 99% of the population that would never go near a CMS even if it was provided more than happy, and that's the point isn't it. For what it's worth, RCP can fix the Hues of the Secondaries without screwing up anything else. Not sure how the reviewer got the on/off numbers but then I've never seen a Sony SXRD run at 70 contrast either. Brightness wise the vw85 is rated the same as the vw80 at 800 ANSI lumens.

For OOTB the Normal colour space looks pretty good and will keep the 99% of the population that would never go near a CMS even if it was provided more than happy, and that's the point isn't it. For what it's worth, RCP can fix the Hues of the Secondaries without screwing up anything else. Not sure how the reviewer got the on/off numbers but then I've never seen a Sony SXRD run at 70 contrast either. Brightness wise the vw85 is rated the same as the vw80 at 800 ANSI lumens.

If a Sony is being fed 0-255 levels Contrast will usually be in the 70's after calibration

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I suppose then. To me, perfect is "much better" than close enough. :D

To answer your question, yes I have seen the RS20 with green similarly placed to where the VW85 measured. It doesn't look awful by any stretch, but was noticeably improved when in the correct spot - especially things such as grass and trees.How about just outside the correct spot? Is the correct spot noticeable improved visually versus just outside? What about things mastered with SMPTE-C primaries versus REC.709 primaries? Do they look wrong when you set it what you referred to as "the correct spot" (I assume you meant REC.709). Do some things look better where the green x,y is on the VW85 (like material that was mastered with SMPTE-C primaries).
On some RS20's the default THX mode measured green in this space. Also calibration attempts with the early firmware often came in around that spot.

I spent over 80 hours diagnosing the RS20 CMS errors and issues prior to the firmware update which corrected this, so I have become quite sensitive to color error as a result. Many may not care or notice a difference. To me, there is no going back now that I have a CMS that works perfectly. Lawguy made a similar comment in an RS25/35 thread and I know exactly where he is coming from. I was keeping an eye on the VW85 as a possibility, but that would have required the gamut to measure perfectly.Can you tell when the source was mastered with SMPTE-C primaries versus when it was mastered with REC.709 primaries? I think that would be a good test of whether somebody is really super sensitive to small color differences. Some people might be able to, but I doubt it is very many people and especially not many outside of people working in Hollywood who get to see things mastered.

Maybe I'm off here, but I suspect that if most people were given a color meter that measured off by about 5% in the distance colors were from white they could end up deciding that everything looked best at exactly where the meter told them REC.709 was, even though that would mean their colors were wrong and they had spent many hours looking at things after different calibrations.

--Darin

If a Sony is being fed 0-255 levels Contrast will usually be in the 70's after calibration

Didn't know that but then I've never hooked any display I own to any source outputting anything other than the correct 16-235 video range.

With all due respect, why would anyone measure on/off contrast ON the screen when reviewing a projector?

What is cause for notice is that this same reviewer measures lower compared to older products. Comparing different reviews is close to impossible. Lets see what gregr gets when measuring a vw85 if WSR keeps with tradition to review new Sony projectors.

Are you all discounting the good review of the vw85 that got great numbers? I also remember reading reports from discussion on the show floor with people with insight claiming great contrast. Numbers being talked about ranged from 30k-40k.

Are you all discounting the good review of the vw85 that got great numbers? I also remember reading reports from discussion on the show floor with people with insight claiming great contrast. Numbers being talked about ranged from 30k-40k.
Personally, I'm not discounting that review. I'm just wondering how the 2 reviews we've got so far can be so different. I mean the Home Theater Magazine review was not written by some dummy and Darin also confirmed it with his own impressions. This makes me think that probably Home Theater Magazine got a bad unit. But if Home Theater Magazine got a bad unit, did the other review get a very good unit? If the VW85 units can vary that much, how could I be sure what kind of unit I'd get, if I ordered one? If I have good luck, I get 20k:1 native contrast, if I have bad luck only 5k:1? Is buying VW85 a lottery? I remember Ekki (cine4home) reporting that the Sony projectors he's seen varied a lot in native contrast. But I wouldn't have expected the variance to be *this* big.

If the VW85 units can vary that much, how could I be sure what kind of unit I'd get, if I ordered one?

Very simple: Buy from a reliable source (and people checking/measuring/calibrating every unit cannot work for the same rate as people just pushing around boxes). No matter whether you buy a Sony, JVC, Epson or whatever, aiming just for the cheapest deal might not be the smartest way to go. What else is new. ;)

Very simple: Buy from a reliable source
Will reliable sources guarantee getting a VW85 with a specific minimum native contrast ratio? Haven't heard of such a deal before, but probably it's all a matter of negotiation...

it's all a matter of negotiation...


Yes, indeed, and a matter of honoring good service. ;)

If a Sony is being fed 0-255 levels Contrast will usually be in the 70's after calibration

Wonder why he would send 0-255 then?

Of course I also wonder why he would do a review and not try the DFI mode at all. Seems to me potential buyers would be interested in reading how it would work and look. The rest of the review is pretty good but still...

What is cause for notice is that this same reviewer measures lower compared to older products. Comparing different reviews is close to impossible. Lets see what gregr gets when measuring a vw85 if WSR keeps with tradition to review new Sony projectors.

Are you all discounting the good review of the vw85 that got great numbers? I also remember reading reports from discussion on the show floor with people with insight claiming great contrast. Numbers being talked about ranged from 30k-40k.

Good points. Before the panic button is pushed (anymore) I suggest waiting a bit.

With all due respect, why would anyone measure on/off contrast ON the screen when reviewing a projector?

My thought exactly.
Also when I look at the reviews for the two JVCs
HD350 with open iris: 16,558:1
HD750 with nearly closed iris at -12 : 18,362:1
I suspect something is not right with the measurement methodology.

Wonder why he would send 0-255 then?
0-255 can have benefits. You know, our sources are usually YCbCr. If you convert that to RGB, you get floating point numbers. If you dumb the floating point RGB down to integer 16-235, you have less steps available than when using 0-255. So using 0-255 can help keeping banding at a minimum. In any case if you send RGB, your source device has hopefully used proper dithering. In that case there should be no banding with 16-235, either, but still 0-255 gives you more steps to work with. Of course all this applies to RGB, only...

Didn't know that but then I've never hooked any display I own to any source outputting anything other than the correct 16-235 video range.

Just read the settings page from the review... They had brightness at 50..
On the vw60 and hw10 I have seen, I had to change brightness to 65+ for 0-255 levels

So my theory that they were sending the VW85 0-255 levels must be wrong.

0-255 can have benefits.
RGB 16-235 can have benefits as well. Even though RGB 16-235 has fewer steps than RGB 0-255, RGB 16-235 has an advantage because it has the exact same number of steps as Y. For example, when you convert grayscale values from YCbCr to RGB 16-235, you get no banding at all.

RGB 16-235 can have benefits as well. Even though RGB 16-235 has fewer steps than RGB 0-255, RGB 16-235 has an advantage because it has the exact same number of steps as Y. For example, when you convert grayscale values from YCbCr to RGB 16-235, you get no banding at all.
True - with a perfectly color less grayscale. But add just a tiny bit of color and suddenly your R, G and B values will not be integer numbers, anymore. Or do just a tiny bit of image processing like (video) deinterlacing, noise reduction, scaling, sharpening, brightness or contrast adjustments etc, and the luma channel itself will also be floating point. In any of these cases you have to dither YCbCr down to 8bit RGB if you want to get a good representation of the source, and as soon as you dither, having more steps available is a benefit.

PC Levels upconverted to 36 bit color depth does look like pure eye candy for football. :)

Of course I prefer the "normal" settings for movies...

Another UK review, not very tehnical but some small detail about the CR improvements and what changed in iris 3.

This review, like the TJN review in Home tHeater Mag, seemed very impressed with the resolution, sharpness, and detail in the images.

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-visual/projectors/sony-vpl-vw85-627119/review

Thanks Houston! :)

BTW, shouldn't the thread title say 120,000 contrast? :D

BTW, shouldn't the thread title say 120,000 contrast? :D

So Joe, when are you getting one of these to test? ;) I was just down in Chicagoland on business not too far away I might have to bring some good beer and alcohol to help you test this thing.... ;)

So Joe, when are you getting one of these to test? ;) I was just down in Chicagoland on business not too far away I might have to bring some good beer and alcohol to help you test this thing.... ;)

Hopefully not to much longer. I will be getting a JVC this weekend (Saturday)... Let the games begin! :)

I'll bring the Kettle One! Can I come too?

Hopefully not to much longer. I will be getting a JVC this weekend (Saturday)... Let the games begin! :)

The RS25?

But he no longer has an RS20 to compare it to. And Mr my Sony has inky blacks (said with respect and affection for my friend Joe) is not a measurement guy. He is a it looks guy.

But he no longer has an RS20 to compare it to. And Mr my Sony has inky blacks (said with respect and affection for my friend Joe) is not a measurement guy. He is a it looks guy.

That is 100% correct. I can measure, but I will not disclose any readings. Not unless I get paid to. ;)

Seriously, I like being a "as it looks guy" because that is most important. I also plan to study the motion panning very carefully. I have my stack of titles ready to go! And trust me, I don't need a RS20 to compare... :)

That is 100% correct. I can measure, but I will not disclose any readings. Not unless I get paid to. ;)

Seriously, I like being a "as it looks guy" because that is most important. I also plan to study the motion panning very carefully. I have my stack of titles ready to go! And trust me, I don't need a RS20 to compare... :)

Joe, what JVC unit are you getting? I saw Jason Turks mini review and to me the RS15 colors look way over saturated, but that is pretty easy to correct out of the box. I am still looking into the Sony HW-15 and VPL-85 depending on price and how they look as well.

To me it comes down to the VW85 and 950. Those are the main two I am considering. I will still look at the 550 as well but that is manily for "review" purposes. Of course I have no plans to post my review here. There will be plenty of owners and magazine reviewers who will do that over the next few months. Besides, there are a few "jerks" here that for whatever reason try to discredit me with every JVC post I make. I still have not decided if I will post my VW85 review here yet...

I am proud to say that in 8 weeks or so *****************.com has had over 10,000 hits! :)

Another UK review, not very tehnical but some small detail about the CR improvements and what changed in iris 3.

This review, like the TJN review in Home tHeater Mag, seemed very impressed with the resolution, sharpness, and detail in the images.

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-visual/projectors/sony-vpl-vw85-627119/review

Hmm... His measurements of 12K:1 dynamic and 4.5K:1 static are nowhere near claimed performance, particularly static 20K - 40K:1 claims being circulated.

If Norton's results hold up, that would be quite a disappointment.

I'll bring the Kettle One! Can I come too?

Projector party! :D

I am proud to say that in 8 weeks or so *****************.com has had over 10,000 hits! :)

Has anyone suggested you should paint the base board in your screen cubbie black? You're white base board and AC vent has to stand out when watching a film in your HT.

I look forward to your feedback of the MotionFlow on the VW85 and if it's an improvement over the VW80/VW200.

I look forward to your feedback of the MotionFlow on the VW85 and if it's an improvement over the VW80/VW200.

There's nothing to suggest that they've changed MotionFlow from what the VW80 has and there have been suggestions that the VW80 implementation was different to the VW200.

Has anyone suggested you should paint the base board in your screen cubbie black? You're white base board and AC vent has to stand out when watching a film in your HT.

I look forward to your feedback of the MotionFlow on the VW85 and if it's an improvement over the VW80/VW200.

Not yet. When I dim the lights it has always been a non issue. I could change the vent to black but that has never bothered anyone either. :)

Projector party! :D

Excellent! I'll bring the Don Julio to get the party started!:D

There's nothing to suggest that they've changed MotionFlow from what the VW80 has and there have been suggestions that the VW80 implementation was different to the VW200.

Does anyone really like the 120Hz in full blown mode? I currently have a 1080p set that has this and it had the 120Hz turned way up and I was watching "Braveheart" boy it just didn't look right.... ;) Now most good PJs don't seem to have an issue with digital artifacting watching sports events it seems the manufactures are playing the numbers game so you pay more. A good ISF tech at a local store in town here said he doesn't like it and tends to turn it down or off when calibrating a set. Just curious what other people think of this, especially with FPs.

Does anyone really like the 120Hz in full blown mode? I currently have a 1080p set that has this and it had the 120Hz turned way up and I was watching "Braveheart" boy it just didn't look right.... ;) Now most good PJs don't seem to have an issue with digital artifacting watching sports events it seems the manufactures are playing the numbers game so you pay more. A good ISF tech at a local store in town here said he doesn't like it and tends to turn it down or off when calibrating a set. Just curious what other people think of this, especially with FPs.

I've always been a fan of FI but i have found a movie that FI really screws up on the displays I have seen. In Dark Knight, at the beginning of the movie, when it begins to zoom in on the buildings from a helicopter camera, the left building breaks up and goes to hell. I am curious if anyone else has noticed this with FI turned on. It does it on my Samsung LED 8000 TV as well as our Sony XBR9 at work. I only have JVC projectors (750) to look at it on and they obviously don't have FI. To be fair though, I use the HD version of Dark Knight I recorded on HBO and not a Blu-ray. Perhaps the 3-2 has something to do with it???

Projector party! :D

I'm also looking at either getting a 85 or keeping my HD750 so seeing them side by side in your theater would be really fun. (I saw 990 at the show and it wasn't improved enough over the 750 to make me consider an upgrade). With three kids under 5 it makes a trip to Chicago a little difficult but I am really looking foward to hearing your opinions. You can PM me your opinions on the JVC in comparision, I won't argue with you. As you know I have owned both JVC's and Sony's so I have no alterior motive.

Awesome Chadly. Consider it (PMs) done. :)

I've always been a fan of FI but i have found a movie that FI really screws up on the displays I have seen. In Dark Knight, at the beginning of the movie, when it begins to zoom in on the buildings from a helicopter camera, the left building breaks up and goes to hell. I am curious if anyone else has noticed this with FI turned on. It does it on my Samsung LED 8000 TV as well as our Sony XBR9 at work. I only have JVC projectors (750) to look at it on and they obviously don't have FI. To be fair though, I use the HD version of Dark Knight I recorded on HBO and not a Blu-ray. Perhaps the 3-2 has something to do with it???

This was for the Dark Knight...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15399064#post15399064

Currently running FI on Low and DFI Off which according to Sony shouldn't do anything for 24p material as in not work at all, but it does. Slightly smoother, less jerky, no artifacts and certainly no "like video" look.

...(I saw 950 at the show and it wasn't improved enough over the 750 to make me consider an upgrade)...

Maybe then consider the 990.

Maybe then consider the 990.

The 990 was the projector i actually saw. I edited my previous post to reflect this. I got confused on the numbering I guess but I am 98% sure it was the 990 that JVC was showing in their booth at CEDIA. Is there really a difference though besides putting the better hand picked chips in the 990? Maybe they should just call it a 950 Ultra and be done with it. :D Outside of FI I saw no reason to look to upgrade. The overall image produced by the 990 was extremely close to my 750.

This was for the Dark Knight...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15399064#post15399064

Currently running FI on Low and DFI Off which according to Sony shouldn't do anything for 24p material as in not work at all, but it does. Slightly smoother, less jerky, no artifacts and certainly no "like video" look.

Thanks for the confirmation on this. I haven't read the 80 thread much so that must be why I missed that. I was really curious if it was from the FI or the 60hz or a combination of both. funny thing I noticed was that when you watched the scene and paused it just as it started to happen and then unpaused it the image was fine.

Awesome Chadly. Consider it (PMs) done. :)

So Joe, have you had a chance to compare the Sony's and JVC units yet? I am still looking at the VPL-85 and even the 15, and the JVC units of course.

So Joe, have you had a chance to compare the Sony's and JVC units yet? I am still looking at the VPL-85 and even the 15, and the JVC units of course.

HI, within the next 48 to 72 hours I plan to post my review. I am not sure I will do it here since any 85 thread that seems to get started is deleted. :eek:

HI, within the next 48 to 72 hours I plan to post my review. I am not sure I will do it here since any 85 thread that seems to get started is deleted. :eek:

I look forward to your review - although I have not witnessed any deletions of Sony threads. Sony seems to get a lot of attention here

I am not sure I will do it here since any 85 thread that seems to get started is deleted.
The reason the threads have been deleted has nothing to do with Sony or anything like that, but rather due to the fact that the VW-85 hasn't actually been released yet.

The reason the threads have been deleted has nothing to do with Sony or anything like that, but rather due to the fact that the VW-85 hasn't actually been released yet.

Not sure why it would be deleted for that reason since there are a ton of products that have a limited release(before the official release) or people are beta testing them who happen to post here. Example would be Oppo new Blu-Ray player there were plenty of threads on there before the "official" release date happened.

Joerod: keep me posted either way as I am very interested in the Sony and or JVC.

Yeah. That is a bit odd. Any reason why they would be deleted and not just rolled into this thread? I can understand not wanting multiple threads on the same unreleased projector but would probably consolidate rather than delete.

I look forward to your review - although I have not witnessed any deletions of Sony threads. Sony seems to get a lot of attention here

They are gone to fast to notice.

The reason the threads have been deleted has nothing to do with Sony or anything like that, but rather due to the fact that the VW-85 hasn't actually been released yet.

The second the JVC PJs were announced there were threads going. We have plenty of other "anticipation" threads for other product here. Either way if I were to post my review here I would start an "Owner's" thread. And if that was deleted...

I am not sure I will do it here since any 85 thread that seems to get started is deleted.
Ok, guys, I am not the one who deleted those 2 threads (and only 2 were deleted), but after reading the initial posts in those threads, I understood why they were removed. The threads were started to generate sales and were not from your typical AVS forum members in anticipation and excitement of the new unit. 'Nuff said.

Trust me, once the VW-85 is actually released, there will be no problem with threads being started to discuss what promises to be a very fine unit and a worthy competitor to the JVC lineup. I am sure that we all want to hear about its performance - the good, the bad, and the ugly...:)
Either way if I were to post my review here I would start an "Owner's" thread. And if that was deleted...
Joe, if you get your hands on a VW-85, by all means start "the official" thread. I assure you that it will not be deleted...;)

I look forward to your review - although I have not witnessed any deletions of Sony threads. Sony seems to get a lot of attention here

+1 can't wait :)

Ok, guys, I am not the one who deleted those 2 threads (and only 2 were deleted), but after reading the initial posts in those threads, I understood why they were removed. The threads were started to generate sales and were not from your typical AVS forum members in anticipation and excitement of the new unit. 'Nuff said.

Trust me, once the VW-85 is actually released, there will be no problem with threads being started to discuss what promises to be a very fine unit and a worthy competitor to the JVC lineup. I am sure that we all want to hear about its performance - the good, the bad, and the ugly...:)

Joe, if you get your hands on a VW-85, by all means start "the official" thread. I assure you that it will not be deleted...;)

Awesome! Thanks Bob, I will be more than happy to post my Review and start the thread here... :)

A couple of days ago the VPL-VW85 was on sonystyle.com site, and then it disappeared. Has it really not been released yet?

Sony does appear to have pulled the VW85 from SonyStyle. Strange????

Could have been as simple as some typos that they are fixing. Once crap gets out, if it is wrong, it can be a nightmare for manufacturers to rectify.

The funny thing is that I ordered one, and received it last week. Hence my confusion in regards to the actual release date.

The funny thing is that I ordered one, and received it last week. Hence my confusion in regards to the actual release date.

So how do you like it?
Paul

Could have been as simple as some typos that they are fixing. Once crap gets out, if it is wrong, it can be a nightmare for manufacturers to rectify.

So if I post my review here without any commercials will it be safe? :)

I have been on this forum for nearly 10 years and the moderators are quite liberal - leave out politics, religion and sales pitches and you are good to go

So if I post my review here without any commercials will it be safe? :)

Please, please, please post your review!

And if you have any idea why the 85 no longer appears on Sony's web site, let us know.

Thank you for all your great reviews!

So how do you like it?
Paul

I like it quite a bit. The projector is pretty large, but the picture quality is a huge improvement compared to my old projector. Unfortunately that doesn't really say too much, because my old projector is a Sanyo PLV-Z2000. The Sanyo isn't anywhere near the same league as this new Sony.

That said, the picture is absolutely gorgeous. I feel it's easily competitive with the plasma and lcd televisions I've looked at recently. So I guess that sums up as "I like it" :)

Edit: I was sort of expecting the overall PQ improvement over the Sanyo, but the one thing that struck me was how much brighter the picture was compared to the Sanyo. The Sanyo's lamp is still in good shape, but the Sony throws a much brighter picture.

whats your screen, size, throw, etc.

whats your screen, size, throw, etc.

The screen is a Do-Able board, so the screen size is approximately 100". Currently the projector lens is 15.5' away from the screen, and that seems to be the minimum distance given the screen size; this projector seems to be intended for much larger screens.

Overall the viewing environment is fairly challenging for a projector, with some white walls adjacent to the screen and a somewhat less controlled lighting.

The HD video source is an Oppo BDP-83, which feeds HDMI to a Sony STR-DA6400ES receiver, which in turn feeds HDMI to the projector.

So if I post my review here without any commercials will it be safe? :)

Yup. But if you have to have a commercial in it, make sure it is about deodorant. :)

Yup. But if you have to have a commercial in it, make sure it is about deodorant. :)

Just for you I will. :D

Awesome. I prefer a solid.

"AVScience - where our prices don't stink and neither do our employees"............

Dick Fogg

Awesome. I prefer a solid.
AhHa! I always thought Jason was a "Secret" kind of guy:D

:)