SONY will present one, of his new projector at the IFA SHOW 2009 in Berlin, the VPL-VW 85

http://www.cinetson.org/phpBB3/projecteurs-f2/sony-vpl-100000-contraste-t30540.html#p488934

Here some specs :

100000:1 Contrast with D.I.
20 DB
Bravo engine 2
800 Lumens
Pannels alignment
2 Triggers
Horizontal and vertical motorized lens shift
Price TBE : 6000 euros

P.S. : A second one is also expected ;)

Wow! Great specs and looks like a VW60 price range instead of the VW70/80. I wonder what the second one will bring to the table.

SONY will present one, of his new projector at the IFA SHOW 2009 in Berlin, the VPL-VW 85

http://www.cinetson.org/phpBB3/projecteurs-f2/sony-vpl-100000-contraste-t30540.html#p488934

Here some specs :

100000:1 Contrast with D.I.
20 DB
Bravo engine 2
800 Lumens
Pannels alignment
2 Triggers
Horizontal and vertical motorized lens shift
Price TBE : 8000 euros
Cool - thanks! So VW80 60k:1 and VW85 100k:1. Native CR for the VW80 was measured around 11k:1. So I'd hope for 18k:1 or 19k:1 for the VW85. Still not a match for the native CR of the JVC HD750. But getting nearer.

P.S. : A second one is also expected ;)
Do you mean the HW10 replacement? Or do you mean a model above the VW85?

SONY will present two new projectors on the occasion of a press conference on September 2nd, 2009 in BERLIN. I still ignore which one but I hope and wait for the VPL-VW 300 or for the HW 20.

Cool - thanks! So VW80 60k:1 and VW85 100k:1. Native CR for the VW80 was measured around 11k:1. So I'd hope for 18k:1 or 19k:1 for the VW85. Still not a match for the native CR of the JVC HD750. But getting nearer.I could get 100k:1 dynamic with my VW80 through the service menu, but it was a big multiplier and still preferred the RS20's contrast ratio. I hope that Sony has upped native on/off CR a reasonable amount and didn't get there mostly with a bigger multiplier instead.

I wonder what companies like Panasonic will do after they speced 60k:1 last year and movie modes (not the Dynamic mode with color problems) were more like 2k:1 native on/off CR and 6k:1 dynamic on/off CR. That is, if they up their real on/off CRs 60-70% will they also claim 100k:1 on/off CR?

--Darin

My info is the native is up and the DI has not been made more aggressive. but only time willtell. If I say more, Jason would have to shoot me. man that guy can hit a bulls eye a mile away while riding a surf board.

http://www.eisa.eu/awards

Seeing is believing’ says Sony, and that has never been more true than with the new BRAVIA VPL-VW85. Using three latest generation SXRD panels with 1920x1080 pixels each, it produces smooth and crisp High Definition images. In conjunction with a revised dynamic iris control, these deliver a stunning in-picture contrast, resulting in lifelike and rich images of previously-unseen depth and clarity. Sony’s unique Motionflow algorithm offers the right mode of motion compensation for every source material and viewer’s taste, including the option to insert black frames for a really cinema-like presentation. The combination of all these technologies results in a picture performance that sets new standards in the home theatre experience.

Is the MotionFLow 120hz or 240hz?

My info is the native is up and the DI has not been made more aggressive. but only time willtell.

Reading through all the threads/available info a new/improved/revised iris does get mentioned so it may not all be native gain and if that's the case not much reason to upgrade from a VW80 especially if pricing info is correct at nearly twice what some of us paid for the VW80.

I hope and wait for the VPL-VW 300.

There has been rumor somethings coming this year or next. I hope its this year.

not much reason to upgrade from a VW80 especially if pricing info is correct at nearly twice what some of us paid for the VW80.

If Sony still enforces the Sure Policy that will keep its price right up there with the new high end JVC
which will native over 100,000:1
It will be interesting to see which ends up with higher ANSI.

http://66.196.80.202/babelfish/translate_url_content?.intl=de&lp=el_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.fullhd.gr%2f2008-03-05-02-02-27%2f1080p%2f1777-sony-vpl-vw85.html

According this website, the VPL-VW 85 will be available in Europe in September 2009. Expected price around 6000 euros

http://www.avmagazine.it/news/videoproiettori/nuovo-sony-sxrd-vpl-vw85_4571.html

According this website, the VPL-VW 85 will be available in Europe in September 2009. Expected price around 6000 euros

http://www.avmagazine.it/news/videoproiettori/nuovo-sony-sxrd-vpl-vw85_4571.html

Does that price include the VAT or not? Just curious as to what the price will end up being here in the US.

That price include VAT.

The VW80 started with an MSRP of about 6500 Euros, IIRC. So it seems that the VW85 will simply replace the VW80 at a roughly similar MSRP. That would make a lot of sense, of course. Here in Europe the VW70 never existed. So I'm not sure what this all means for you US guys...

If model numbers are any guide, I would not expect this to be much improved over the vw80. Previous Sony models have always been round numbers: vw40, vw50, vw60, vw70 and vw 80.

Now it may be that Sony sees that it is getting close to vw100 (which has already been taken) and is slowing down the progression because of that but from model numbers alone, the jump from a vw80 to a vw85 should not be very big.

This is the lowest form of analysis, of course. :)

Duh. They are running out of numbers. So. To make the numbering system last, they chose 85, leaving 90 and 95 available for future years.. I have been given a release to disclose this very valuable information.

As I reported in February, the US MSRP will be $8000, this is consistent with subtracting VAT from the Euros and applying the exchange rate. Things can always change.

Duh. They are running out of numbers.

In case you don't know, you can't run out of numbers. They go on forever.

Why not a vpl-vw800? That number signals something. From 80 to 85 sounds like an incremental improvement. Again, this is not a sophisticated analysis but that is exactly why it may be predictive with the corporate small thinkers who market these products.

I will of course try the 85 but I will also be trying the new JVCs to. At least the 950 and the 990. It's shaping up to be a fun Fall! :)

If we do not see the Qualia replacement then the VW200 will remain the flagship once again.

According this website, the VPL-VW 85 will be available in Europe in September 2009. Expected price around 6000 euros

http://www.avmagazine.it/news/videoproiettori/nuovo-sony-sxrd-vpl-vw85_4571.html

if you clicked to the next page on that link you can see that Anthem is bring out a line of projectors, rebagded JVCs though

http://66.196.80.202/babelfish/translate_url_content?.intl=uk&lp=el_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.fullhd.gr%2f2008-03-05-02-02-27%2f1080p%2f1716-anthem-ltx-300-a-ltx-500-.html

The VW80 started with an MSRP of about 6500 Euros, IIRC. So it seems that the VW85 will simply replace the VW80 at a roughly similar MSRP. That would make a lot of sense, of course. Here in Europe the VW70 never existed. So I'm not sure what this all means for you US guys...The VW70 has an MSRP of $6999 here according to projectorcentral.com, so we can figure out what that means if they also keep the VW85 in the same ballpark here.
If model numbers are any guide, I would not expect this to be much improved over the vw80.By that it should be 1.5 jumps from the vw70. :)

Whether it is a small jump or not around the world using the 85 does seem to imply that it is small to end users.

I wonder how many people who bought the vw70 in the US knew about the vw80. I'm guessing that many people who knew about both skipped the vw70 just because of the 2 models with lesser features in the US tactic Sony used.

--Darin

I am usually curious about most Sony PJs but didn't even look at the 70...

I am usually curious about most Sony PJs but didn't even look at the 70...

Me too cause it was'nt a VW80. Why did Sony not release the VW80 in the U.S.? & Why even make a VW70?

The 70 has gotten some pretty solid reviews. Granted it's missing the motion flow feature but what else was missing from it that is available on the 80?

The 70 has gotten some pretty solid reviews. Granted it's missing the motion flow feature but what else was missing from it that is available on the 80?

There are circuits in the VW200 that are not in the 85 and under still leaving it king again. I would like to see a new model form Sony but the rumor they are no longer interested in the HT arena may be true if this is it.
Could there be a surprise waiting at Cedia beyond this?

There are circuits in the VW200 that are not in the 85
Like what? Now don't tell me "some magical circuits which somehow make the image quality xx% nicer". Some technical details would be useful. Thanks.

So some circuits and motion flow are the only differences between the 70 and 80 then? I guess I can see the need for the motion flow feature for sports. However, it's just terrible with movies. That feature hasn't been on the JVC's (the RS20 etc) and it hasn't slowed their sales down at all. Not trying to pick a fight on the topic. Just trying to understand the signficance of the motion flow feature. Just seems like a very solid machine has been over looked for one possible feature being excluded in the US. When the top dog JVC's doesn't have it either.

I'm only saying this too because when the VW85 hits the streets there are better then average chances that more then a few 70's will hit some nice price points I'm sure. Would it still be worth not considering because of Motion Flow being excluded if it ends up significantly cheaper then the VW85 street price?

The 70 has gotten some pretty solid reviews. Granted it's missing the motion flow feature but what else was missing from it that is available on the 80?

MotionFlow and DFI was enough for me. Why get the 70 when we could just get a 80 from over there? :)

So some circuits and motion flow are the only differences between the 70 and 80 then? I guess I can see the need for the motion flow feature for sports. However, it's just terrible with movies. That feature hasn't been on the JVC's (the RS20 etc) and it hasn't slowed their sales down at all. Not trying to pick a fight on the topic. Just trying to understand the signficance of the motion flow feature. Just seems like a very solid machine has been over looked for one possible feature being excluded in the US. When the top dog JVC's doesn't have it either.

I'm only saying this too because when the VW85 hits the streets there are better then average chances that more then a few 70's will hit some nice price points I'm sure. Would it still be worth not considering because of Motion Flow being excluded if it ends up significantly cheaper then the VW85 street price?

Looks like JVC will have it on their new ones coming this Fall...

The VW200 also has the better colors due to the Xenon lamp. I still will be interested to see how the PJs look this Fall because I would like to see 240hz among a couple other specs. Still though, the VW200 will most likely be Sony's king for sometime to come...

Besides the Xenon lamp there are further color processing boards not in the 70/80
If anyone gets a chance to compare the 70/80 side by side with the 200 the 70/80 lack the rich saturation of the 200. The 200 appears to have more contrast although the specs say different. The circuits the 200 has missing in the others was covered on this forum a few years ago. A search may turn this up again. It is obvious by price the 85 ( not new but revamped 70/80 ) does not replace the 200.

MotionFlow and DFI was enough for me. Why get the 70 when we could just get a 80 from over there? :)

Is the warranty valid when you import an 80? It's something I've considered if I could find a reliable retailer...

Is the warranty valid when you import an 80? It's something I've considered if I could find a reliable retailer...

You can get a Mack warranty to service it in the U.S.

I looked into getting the 80 imported recently but couldn't find anyone still doing it. It was a steal of a deal earlier in the year when you could still get one. Especially before Sony adjusted the VW80 price to reflect the US VW70 price more. There was a time there for awhile where it was practically available for the price of an HW10 or VW60! Too bad that didn't last.

The 70 as a dumbed downed 80 for the US marked solely made to offer sufficiently less features to claerly make the 200 worth the price difference. The vast majority of the US market would not perceive only a zenon lamp a sufficient difference. Also the cost of a replacement zenon lmp would also act as a disincentive. It was a poor decision by Sony given the global market which made many aware of the 80, its addditional features only software based, and its essentially thye same cost.

The 300, which may indeed never come, is reserved for a higher end model. sony perceived the price points of about $3000 and $8000 as being the price point for sellable US models. These models will remain under 100 in model numbers. That`s i, You guys can speculate all you want, but that`s it. No 300 this year.

So why are they introducing two new models? They simply do not view the present economic situation as justifying a new $15K projector at this time. An expected number of sales to justify recoupment of the develpmental and production costs was not predicted. The biggest problem facing the future would be the high costs of developing and producing a new SXRD chip given the only use being for front projectors.

Mark I hope you are right. If they are planing on exiting the consumer projection market I hope it is not until we get the 300 or Qualia replacement first.

The 70 as a dumbed downed 80 for the US marked solely made to offer sufficiently less features to claerly make the 200 worth the price difference...My Sony contact said that the reason was limited availability/low yields of the then new 120Hz 15,000:1 SXRDs. The VW80 market ony required 100Hz parts which had much higher yields. He was expecting a 30,000:1 120Hz part in the VW90, lets hope that that made it into the VW85.

Its pretty clear that once the RPTV market died there is not enough justification for R&D investment in new SXRDs, The current parts in the pipeline were slow tracked and this is about it.

The more popular machine should be the the HW20 if it uses the 15,000:1 part.

If the 4K VW300 is not released the VW200 may also get the new 30,000:1 panel.

At least hat was the plan before the big bloodletting in the spring.

My Sony contact said that the reason was limited availability/low yields of the then new 120Hz 15,000:1 SXRDs. The VW80 market ony required 100Hz parts which had much higher yields. He was expecting a 30,000:1 120Hz part in the VW90, lets hope that that made it into the VW85.

Its pretty clear that once the RPTV market died there is not enough justification for R&D investment in new SXRDs, The current parts in the pipeline were slow tracked and this is about it.

The more popular machine should be the the HW20 if it uses the 15,000:1 part.

If the 4K VW300 is not released the VW200 may also get the new 30,000:1 panel.

At least hat was the plan before the big bloodletting in the spring.

I guess we could just send our 200s in for an update... :eek: If Sony is truly leaving the PJ biz I will really have to take a good hard look at the new JVCs coming...

The VW200 also has the better colors due to the Xenon lamp. I still will be interested to see how the PJs look this Fall because I would like to see 240hz among a couple other specs. Still though, the VW200 will most likely be Sony's king for sometime to come...

A xenon lamp does not improve color performance in these products. The VW200 excells at optical performance. High native contrast is a color advantage for the darker elements in a picture. This happens because the percentage contamination from light leakage is lower.

Sony is not leaving the projector business. In fact, Sony is making a big push in the commercial cinema market with its 4k machines. The problem is that the commerical space is the head and the home theater space is the tail. Things that drive us (higher contrast, for example) don't necessarily drive the commerical market. Thus, I wonder how much trickle down effect we can expect, although it is rumored that we will soon see 4k from Sony this year.

Sony's other problem is pricing inflexibility. You can't be inflexible with pricing if you have competition or else your product will not be bought. All you vw-70 owners speak up now. [crickets].

HoustonHoyaFan. Doesn`t your chip distinction mean that the 80s wouldn`t have done 120 with 60 sources in the US? Many were imported into North America and used on our video sources without problem.

A xenon lamp does not improve color performance in these products. The VW200 excells at optical performance. High native contrast is a color advantage for the darker elements in a picture. This happens because the percentage contamination from light leakage is lower.

Say what you want but with all the PJs I have had in my set up the VW200 has had the best color. The Xenon lamp provides equal brightness output levels for the primary colors. They are more natural, rich and accurate. I credit the Xenon lamp as does many others for the terrific color. Maybe what you mentioned is responsible to but I am sure the Xenon lamp has some role as well...

Say what you want but with all the PJs I have had in my set up the VW200 has had the best color. The Xenon lamp provides equal brightness output levels for the primary colors. They are more natural, rich and accurate. I credit the Xenon lamp as does many others for the terrific color. Maybe what you mentioned is responsible to but I am sure the Xenon lamp has some role as well...

Have you ever measured the vw-200 to see how accurate it is?

Have you ever measured the vw-200 to see how accurate it is?

Used a Sencore OTC1000... :)

Used a Sencore OTC1000... :)

So, how accurate is it?

You are more than welcome to come by anytime you want and see for yourself... ;)

You are more than welcome to come by anytime you want and see for yourself... ;)

The point is that the colors of the vw-200 in its most accurate color space, Normal, will look and measure identically to the colors in any other similarly measuring display. Xenon has nothing to do with it.

HoustonHoyaFan. Doesn`t your chip distinction mean that the 80s wouldn`t have done 120 with 60 sources in the US? Many were imported into North America and used on our video sources without problem.I asked my contact that question in the early spring when I was thinking about buying a VW80 and got a "maybe". A part certified for 100Hz may reliably do 120Hz most of the time but will do 100Hz 99.999% of the time.

VDC OEMed and sold to the simulation market a 120Hz VW70 in NA as the GH10.
http://vdcds.com/pdf/lcos/gh10.pdf

The plan was that the NA consumer market would get the HFR VW70 when yields improved.

The sales volume of the VW200 segment is so small that crippling a segment 10x bigger makes no sense.

Back on topic: I'm hoping that they do ship a 30,000:1 native/500:1 ANSI VW90 in the US. As much as I like my FPJ1(RS2), the motion handling is killing me.

A little update, according this website, the VW-85 will reach a Contrast of 120000:1 :

http://www.cinemotion.biz/noticia_detalle.php?id=988&ccat_n=0

The Sony.co.uk press centre is quoting a contrast ratio of 120,000:1.

The VW-85, which has just won the EISA 2009-2010 projector of the year award and the following info is supplied :-

BRAVIA™ VPL-VW85 (European Video projector 2009-2010): This home theatre projector uses three SXRD™ panels (RGB) to deliver stunning 1080p HD images with incredible 120,000:1 contrast. A full complement of Sony picture enhancement technologies includes all-digital BRAVIA Engine2 processing, Enhanced Noise Reduction and Motionflow with Dark Frame Insertion for incredibly smooth, fluid on-screen action.

If my math is correct
4 x 30K:1 = 120K:1, 5 x 24K:1 = 120K:1, 6 x 20K:1 = 120K:1

Sony has used a 3x to 5x DI algorithm in past models.

I would really be excited if it offered 240hz motionflow.

If my math is correct
4 x 30K:1 = 120K:1, 5 x 24K:1 = 120K:1, 6 x 20K:1 = 120K:1

Sony has used a 3x to 5x DI algorithm in past models.You mentioned 15k:1 panels before and maybe 30k:1 panels now. I think they claimed 60k:1 on the VW70 and now they are claiming 120k:1 according to the info above. I hope they have doubled the native. I recall measuring something like 10k:1 native on my VW80, but I think the starting native (iris open) may have been less.

--Darin

The point is that the colors of the vw-200 in its most accurate color space, Normal, will look and measure identically to the colors in any other similarly measuring display. Xenon has nothing to do with it.

Are you serious? :D

Are you serious? :D

Yup. Light is light.

You mentioned 15k:1 panels before and maybe 30k:1 panels now. I think they claimed 60k:1 on the VW70 and now they are claiming 120k:1 according to the info above. I hope they have doubled the native. I recall measuring something like 10k:1 native on my VW80, but I think the starting native (iris open) may have been less.

--DarinThe 1 VW70 I personally saw measurements on did 12K:1 open/15K:1 closed. I would be very surprised if the new pj did < 20K:1 open however with the LCDs claiming 15x to 20x multipliers you never know :(

Yup. Light is light.

So why then is the VW200 better with colors than most other PJs if light is light? I don't want to go off topic here (especially since I actually own one and you don't) but I will say I am looking forward to comparing the 85 and newer JVCs this Fall...

So why then is the VW200 better with colors than most other PJs if light is light? I don't want to go off topic here (especially since I actually own one and you don't) but I will say I am looking forward to comparing the 85 and newer JVCs this Fall...

You're right. Let's not go off topic.

The 1 VW70 I personally saw measurements on did 12K:1 open/15K:1 closed. I would be very surprised if the new pj did < 20K:1 open however with the LCDs claiming 15x to 20x multipliers you never know :(

Those numbers match what I get for my VW80 (and 70k:1 DI, no zoom) and hopefully Sony isn't going to go past the 5:1 gearing they use now but as I've said further up the thread there is mention of a revised iris setup so I suspect (hopefully wrong) that some of the on/off increase is native and some is a more aggressive iris. And those 3-4k LCD's panels that claim 50-70k on/off are something aren't they :)

I looked into getting the 80 imported recently but couldn't find anyone still doing it. It was a steal of a deal earlier in the year when you could still get one. Especially before Sony adjusted the VW80 price to reflect the US VW70 price more. There was a time there for awhile where it was practically available for the price of an HW10 or VW60! Too bad that didn't last.

It certainly was an interesting time. As an Aussie the VPL-VW80 came out exactly at the right time and the price was ridiculously low for the technology (I paid $5800:00AUD). The same Projector RRP is now about $8500:00AUD but I have seen it as low as $7990:00AUD on Ebay).

When I saw Sony's later price revision in 2008 I really breathed a sigh of relief. I think over 20 people here on AVS Forum imported one from Australia from the same guy I bought mine from (And he doesn't normally deal with Sony either!).

One of those instances where being in the right place at the right time really paid off. I've finally installed the VPL-VW80 and it's stunning (The second batch of photos in this thread are far better):

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=80905

Cheers

Blade

I'm getting to love this time of year coming along with new VPL models. Just when I think will they make enough of an improvement to justify the change, Sony keep managing to impress me. Better still given that great price scenario here late last year, I have even less qualms this year with upgrading. Not to mention that I finally went projection in my main home HT setup and now view that way nearly every day instead of around once a week. Let's hope for a genuine native CR ratio improvement, I'm getting tired of being a tad envious of the JVC native CR ;). A must say, if it did happen, a 300 model could temp me as well quite possibly. I say bring it on :)

Let's hope for a genuine native CR ratio improvement, I'm getting tired of being a tad envious of the JVC native CR ;). A must say, if it did happen, a 300 model could temp me as well quite possibly. I say bring it on :)

Sony has a long way to go on native but if JVC would only add a dynamic iris on top of its native we could really have something.
If the 300 happens the price will be well out of range to most in this thread
but it will be a welcomed technology ( hope its 4k and then some ) regardless.

Sony has a long way to go on native but if JVC would only add a dynamic iris on top of its native we could really have something.
If the 300 happens the price will be well out of range to most in this thread
but it will be a welcomed technology ( hope its 4k and then some ) regardless.

It wouldn't surprise me if Sony finally reacts to having been beaten in native CR by JVC for so long now. Mind you I've not been one to get that puritanical about the use of DI, I've been using it since the VPL-100 came out and appreciated the improvements in implementation since then. I did after hearing folks here get really picky about wonder if somehow it was just me, until I found that my calibrator (who started with me when I had a Qualia), shared the same view.

4k would be a sensation, upscaling the next generation woohoo! I don't know about it this year in 'mainstream' HT, but I sense it can't be that far off. Given the price points of the the mid range VPL models that most here have, I can understand why most here would not be 300 candidates. For me however having started at the pointy end of SXRD, back in '05, a 300 in my nowadays daily use setup is def not that hard a contemplation, that's if turns and is something special.

I think it's time for me to fire up those Sony contacts of mine again and see what info I can distill :)

In the UK they will soon discover the new sony's projector"S" :D

http://www.avforums.com/forums/projectors/1061034-you-invited-exclusive-projector-launch-thursday-27th-august.html

That`s quite a difficult requirement to get one in.

Mark when will you be able to talk about what you already know ? So this year we will have the VW 85 and the HW20 correct ?

Not for a while yet. there really have been a lot of personal changes at Sony and i feel very uncomfotable talking in advance at this point. Plus I don`t know all the final details

Local launch for Oz confirmed as Oct. Still awaiting confirmation on pricing and official spec sheet. Have also asked for confirmation of rumored VW200 replacement model.

VW85 very positive preview by Home Cinema Choice

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/reviews/new_reviews/sony%E2%80%99s+vpl+vw85+looks+set+shake+projector+market+%E2 %80%93+exclusive+preview+21+08+09

If that price is correct in that review - I'll be sticking with a VW70...

HCC not exactly known for accurate reviews, so i would take there report with a pinch of salt until real reviewers get some measurements done.

And at £5400, sony better make sure its amazing because the JVC 950 will be about the same price or most likely less. (Sony has tight price control these days)

If that price is correct in that review - I'll be sticking with a VW70...

Where's the price in that review, I can't see it? I tend to put aside UK pricing, it's fine if you work in pounds sterling, but for the rest of us it doesn't translate.

I was told yesterday also via Sony that down here in Oz there will be no VW200 replacement and it will still be produced.

...I was told yesterday also via Sony that down here in Oz there will be no VW200 replacement and it will still be produced.That indicates that Sony's second machine will be the HW20. If the the HW20 delivers last years VW80 light engine (15K:1 HFR panels) in the HW10 packaging and $3K price point it will be a killer deal!

How many times and for how many months have I`ve said no 200 replacement but a 70\80 replacement at $8000 US and a new cheaper machine at $3000 t0 $3500 US. I posted this in February.

Do these Sony's have full CMS controls for dialing in Rec 709 for all points (x, y and Y), like the RS20 has?

As I recall the Ruby had some somewhat weird RCP (?) processing that allowed some adjustment but was not an actual CMS.

I would certainly like to consider the VW85. However after spending so much time with the RS20 CMS I have become completely addicted to Rec 709 viewing and I could never go back. Therefore before getting too excited about the prospects of this unit I wanted to know what CMS support it has. Thanks!

It would have been nice if they mentioned if it was 120hz or 240hz. I guess I will have to find out on my own. For the record, I will keep my VW200 this time for comparisons. ;)

It would have been nice if they mentioned if it was 120hz or 240hz. It is a 120Hz machine. I just hope the US gets a HFR machine this time.

Sorry if this is a repeat, but as far as Sony's 2nd machine it looks like it will be the HW15 from this French site:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.cinetson.org/phpBB3/projecteurs-f2/nouveau-sony-vpl-hw15-2500-euros-t30567.html&ei=TSyQSpehB4SAswOI8pUM&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dcinetson.org%2Bhw15%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefo x-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3Dkuu

That says 60k:1 dynamic contrast ratio and available in October.

--Darin

It is a 120Hz machine. I just home the US gets a HFR machine this time.

I had high hopes the 85 would surpass the 200 but as I mentioned before my best bet would be to wait for a 300. Of course it wouldn't hurt to at least try one! :D

Sony has a long way to go on native but if JVC would only add a dynamic iris on top of its native we could really have something.
If the 300 happens the price will be well out of range to most in this thread
but it will be a welcomed technology ( hope its 4k and then some ) regardless.

I have alway wondered but never seen if there is a (known) reason why JVC does not use a dynamic iris?

Hi. This has been discussed in many threads.

The real reason is a conspiracy among projector manufacturers and JVC compassion for them. JVC has such a lead in one parameter, native on\off CR including with use of its adjustable iris, it would be unfair to the other manufacturers to trounce their collective behinds if JVC included a well executed DI. This is the true reasons and anything else posted here is utter BS and nonsense. BTW I don`t own a JVC myself.

Hi. This has been discussed in many threads.

The real reason is a conspiracy among projector manufacturers and JVC compassion for them. JVC has such a lead in one parameter, native on\off CR including with use of its adjustable iris, it would be unfair to the other manufacturers to trounce their collective behinds if JVC included a well executed DI. This is the true reasons and anything else posted here is utter BS and nonsense. BTW I don`t own a JVC myself.

I think a cup of coffee before AM posting could be a good thing! ;)

This has been discussed in many threads.
Yes and with no definitive answer.

I guess if they are so far ahead in on/off without the dynamic iris there is no need for one.
as far as compassion...I bet if asked them for a free rs20 and they would have none for me ;)

OK sorry guys... Back to the Sony...

It would be a very good thing if they would add a good one. At least that`s my opinions. Others differ. One can draw their own conclusions based on the technical literature on DIs and how well some have implemented it. Making it switchable on\off should eliminate any objections except it might raise costs for all including those who in their misguided opinions think its a bad thing.

JVC has such a lead in one parameter, native on\off CR including with use of its adjustable iris, it would be unfair to the other manufacturers to trounce their collective behinds if JVC included a well executed DI.That is pretty funny. In truth the people the most happy that JVC hasn't done a DI are the other manufacturers they compete with (like Sony), other than people who think it would make their performance worse to have an item in the menu where they could choose to have the iris work dynamically or not.
I guess if they are so far ahead in on/off without the dynamic iris there is no need for one.From what Ekkehart of cine4home.de has said it sounds like this is the attitude of at least one person with JVC. As nice as their projectors have been, if the RS20 had everything it had and on top of that a DI that worked as well as Sony's or Planar's then there is no way I would have sold my RS20 and kept the Planar 8150 (until I sold it recently). And if the Planar hadn't had a good DI but was stuck with the native on/off CR it had then there is also no way I would have sold the RS20 and kept the Planar. As it was they were close enough overall IMO that I could keep either one for a while. That isn't to say that the Planar on/off CR is as good as the RS20's, but there are multiple factors that go into how good a projector is and if the RS20 had widened the on/off CR gap even more with a good DI then there wouldn't have been much of a contest for me.

And this time around I am still going to consider this VW85 over JVC's RS20 replacement. I want to know how things like the motion features compare. I'm leaning toward the RS20 replacement at the moment, but if JVC had also added a good DI or Sony didn't have their's (and was stuck with whatever native on/off CR the VW85 has) I would be leaning much harder in that direction.

--Darin

Darin:

You seemed to be pretty high on the dark frame insertion to improve panning shots with the vw-80. Is that correct? I was not pleased with the motion handling of the rs-20.

Did you ever try dark frame insertion and frame interpolation at the same time before you sold it?

Do you think the combination of good motion handling, on/of of around 20k, and ansi>400 would be very good combination for high apl hd sports?

Could you comment on the relative value of a dynamic iris vs high gamma for high apl scenes?

Thanks.

High on\off is needrd for low APL scenes. The higher the on\off regardless of how obtained, the higher the gamma that can be run. Most DLP DI assisted machines can handle a gamma of 2.4. Somewhat higher is needed for a gamma of 2.5. Assuming one has a CRT like on\off (for argument sake say 150,00 to one, gammas above 2.6 can be runwithout black crush but the image becomes too contrasty. While lower black ref levels are highly desirable, we are close to the point where running what many would consider an optimum gamma is possible without crush. I would say once you are at 40,000 to one you have enough to truly run a gamma of 2.5. My numbers are not exact.

In case you don't know, you can't run out of numbers. They go on forever.

Why not a vpl-vw800? That number signals something. From 80 to 85 sounds like an incremental improvement. Again, this is not a sophisticated analysis but that is exactly why it may be predictive with the corporate small thinkers who market these products.

Yes but when you are trying to shoehorn a new number in to an existng sequence, a VPL-VW87.444295 sounds rather clumsy...

;)

-sc

My info is the native is up and the DI has not been made more aggressive. but only time willtell. If I say more, Jason would have to shoot me. man that guy can hit a bulls eye a mile away while riding a surf board.

That's why I have 3 kids. :D

Darin:

You seemed to be pretty high on the dark frame insertion to improve panning shots with the vw-80. Is that correct? I was not pleased with the motion handling of the rs-20.

Did you ever try dark frame insertion and frame interpolation at the same time before you sold it?

Do you think the combination of good motion handling, on/of of around 20k, and ansi>400 would be very good combination for high apl hd sports?

Could you comment on the relative value of a dynamic iris vs high gamma for high apl scenes?

Thanks.

Sports with DFI on Low and MF 120hz on High. Eye candy at its best... :)

Oops. Sorry about the last one. :D

Thanks Joe.
I would think the 85 would give the 200 a run for its money with improved on/off and possibly improved ansi. You'd think there would be improvements in motion handling but we will have to wait and see.

It is not clear why Sony would not ship a quiet upgraded VW200 (VW200R1?) similar to what they did to the Q04 if they plan to continue to sell the VW200 model.

A VW200R1 with the VW80 15K:1 panels or better yet the new VW85 panels (25K:1?) and iris system would be a killer option even at the $15K price point.

It is not clear why Sony would not ship a quiet upgraded VW200 (VW200R1?) similar to what they did to the Q04 if they plan to continue to sell the VW200 model.

A VW200R1 with the VW80 15K:1 panels or better yet the new VW85 panels (25K:1?) and iris system would be a killer option even at the $15K price point.

While we're at it, why not have Vivatek make the LED version, VW200L with the VW85 panels for $20k?:D

It is not clear why Sony would not ship a quiet upgraded VW200 (VW200R1?) similar to what they did to the Q04 if they plan to continue to sell the VW200 model.

A VW200R1 with the VW80 15K:1 panels or better yet the new VW85 panels (25K:1?) and iris system would be a killer option even at the $15K price point.

If they did I would be sending mine in for an upgrade! :)

Hi,

more information here :

http://www.thehomecinemacentre.co.uk/projectors-Sony-VPL-VW85.html

The sheet product :

http://www.thehomecinemacentre.co.uk/Brochure/Sony%20VPL-VW85%20Specifications.pdf

Hi,

more information here :

http://www.thehomecinemacentre.co.uk/projectors-Sony-VPL-VW85.html

The sheet product :

http://www.thehomecinemacentre.co.uk/Brochure/Sony%20VPL-VW85%20Specifications.pdf

Is that a real Sony specs sheet? If it is, JVC got beat big time! 120,000:1 "NATIVE!!!" contrast? Huh? Wow! I hope that's true! Used in conjunction with the DI that'd mean ~480,000:1! :eek:

Is that a real Sony specs sheet? If it is, JVC got beat big time! 120,000:1 "NATIVE!!!" contrast? Huh? Wow! I hope that's true! Used in conjunction with the DI that'd mean ~480,000:1! :eek:
I'm quite sure that the "native" word is misplaced in the text. Later is says: "With a very high range of 120,000:1, Advanced Iris 3 can bring out the detail in darker sequences and prevent bright scenes from looking washed out". So I'm quite sure that 120,000:1 is the *dynamic* CR.

Hi,


I think you're right, same information here :

http://www.homecinemacentral.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=6298

Does the RCP function as a full CMS? It doesn't sound so from its description (mentioning that it allows control over "hue" but what about saturation and lightness of each color)? If not, how close to Rec 709 does the current line of SXRD's track?

does any one know the price on it and the release date, am looking at replacing my AX200 with a FULL 1080 panel.

Does the RCP function as a full CMS? It doesn't sound so from its description (mentioning that it allows control over "hue" but what about saturation and lightness of each color)? If not, how close to Rec 709 does the current line of SXRD's track?RCP was not a full CMS. VW200 is spot on Rec709 in Normal Mode, the other models are off.

Darin:

You seemed to be pretty high on the dark frame insertion to improve panning shots with the vw-80. Is that correct?It worked very well on some test images, but with real content I didn't notice much difference (other than strobing). Somebody else at one showing really liked the feature though.
Did you ever try dark frame insertion and frame interpolation at the same time before you sold it?I think so if it allowed both, but I don't recall anything specific about that.
Do you think the combination of good motion handling, on/of of around 20k, and ansi>400 would be very good combination for high apl hd sports?Could be. I didn't notice much difference with the motion interpolation with sports, but maybe it had to do with the VW80 only having chips that could handle 100Hz, or something like that. As far as ANSI, it is good, but MTF at full resolution or close to full resolution is probably a bigger deal for sports. That is more about fine detail than the ANSI CR test, which uses big blocks.
Could you comment on the relative value of a dynamic iris vs high gamma for high apl scenes?I think Mark largely covered that. The higher on/off CR from the dynamic iris can helped enable higher gamma numbers and then those higher gamma numbers could help in high APL scenes be creating more separation. Like 2.5 gamma having more contrast ratio between 80% video level objects and 20% video level objects than 2.2 gamma does. There are also shadow detail issues with high APL scenes though where high gamma may make shadow detail harder to see (which could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on that detail).

--Darin

Does the RCP function as a full CMS? It doesn't sound so from its description (mentioning that it allows control over "hue" but what about saturation and lightness of each color)? If not, how close to Rec 709 does the current line of SXRD's track?

Hi,

if the VW85 is the same as the VW80 on this point, I think you have an answer here :

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Sony-VPL-VW80-SXRD-Projector-1080-HD-Review.html

It' not a real CMS. On Rec 709, there are only information on x and y at 100 % on primaries and secondaries colors, not on Y and not on others saturation levels.

Hi,

if the VW85 is the same as the VW80 on this point, I think you have an answer here :

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Sony-VPL-VW80-SXRD-Projector-1080-HD-Review.html

It' not a real CMS. On Rec 709, there are only information on x and y at 100 % on primaries and secondaries colors, not on Y and not on others saturation levels.

Thanks. That was exactly the information I was looking for.

I wonder if they will add a full CMS to keep pace with that JVC added to the RS20. For me to consider the new Sony it would have to measure within a very small dE for all primaries and secondaries.

The UK price is being put at around 6,000 euros, or £5,400 sterling.
I think it will be released in the UK very soon, September, because the UK Sony website is no longer listing the VW-80. They usually try to get rid of their old models before releasing the new ones, (rather than price reductions), so no VW-80 looks like they have depleted their stock of the old model already, thus allowing the VW-85 to be released imminently.
It is being officially being announced in Berlin, (I think), on either the 1st or 2nd of September. I'm sure the Eurpean release date will be confirmed then.

No idea about US release dates. The price quoted in this thread is $8,000.

The UK price is being put at around 6,000 euros, or £5,400 sterling.
The price quoted in this thread is $8,000.

I think I may have been the one to suggest that US price of $8000 however I was assuming that number based on the suggested UK price. It has been mentioned that the US price could be all together different... (fingers crossed)...

U.S. msrp? There will be no U.S. release of the the VW85, just as the VW80. The VW85 will be a europe, aus, japan only release.

U.S. msrp? There will be no U.S. release of the the VW85, just as the VW80. The VW85 will be a europe, aus, japan only release.

Just kidding. I have no idea:p

I wouldn't doubt they would screw us over here again (VW70)... :D

An in depth test of the WV 85 test is published in the Norwegian magazine Hjemmekino today. Measured Native contrast over 20000:1 ANSI contrast have almost doubled (can’t remember the number but near 500:1). This calibrated with correct colours and gray scale. The higher ansi contrast makes a big difference in all scenes except the darkest. Higher light output than HD750 in calibrated modus.

The reviewer declared it the new reference projector and better than the HD750 (Witch he owns himself) after doing several side by side comparisons …

It is going to be an interesting few months!

An in depth test of the WV 85 test is published in the Norwegian magazine Hjemmekino today. Measured Native contrast over 20000:1 ANSI contrast have almost doubled (can’t remember the number but near 500:1).

Doubled from what may I ask as the VW80 does 450:1 and 20k:1 native isn't much of an increase considering the claimed dynamic on/off is now 120k:1.

Doubled from what may I ask as the VW80 does 450:1 and 20k:1 native isn't much of an increase considering the claimed dynamic on/off is now 120k:1.

Less agressive iris is a good ting in my view, and 20000:1 is an impressive number compered to earlyer native numbers....

If the 80 is 450 ansi it is not an doubling. I don't have the numbers in front of me, just out of my memory (wich seems not god enough :-)). I think maby the doubling ANSI numbers was compared to HD750...

An in depth test of the WV 85 test is published in the Norwegian magazine Hjemmekino today. Measured Native contrast over 20000:1 ANSI contrast have almost doubled (can’t remember the number but near 500:1). This calibrated with correct colours and gray scale. The higher ansi contrast makes a big difference in all scenes except the darkest. Higher light output than HD750 in calibrated modus.

The reviewer declared it the new reference projector and better than the HD750 (Witch he owns himself) after doing several side by side comparisons …

It is going to be an interesting few months!

I still plan to mach it up against the VW200. The VW85 should give it a good run for the money... Of course it does get a point deduction since it doesn't appear to have the nice lighted Sony logo. :D

Of course it does get a point deduction since it doesn't appear to have the nice lighted Sony logo. :D
You mean the lighted Sony logo which is increasing ambient light and thus reducing black level and contrast? :p

Yes, that lighted logo. To its credit it does help tall people not bump into it... :D

Yes, that lighted logo. To its credit it does help tall people not bump into it... :D
Well, to be fair, the VW200 needs this logo to serve as an excuse for the elevated black levels. The VW85 probably doesn't, that's why it doesn't have the lighted logo... :D

Good points. The lighted logo also will help if it is about to fall on somebody's head. At least you might be able to get out of the way... 44 pounds would hurt! :D

An in depth test of the WV 85 test is published in the Norwegian magazine Hjemmekino today. Measured Native contrast over 20000:1 ANSI contrast have almost doubled (can’t remember the number but near 500:1). This calibrated with correct colours and gray scale. The higher ansi contrast makes a big difference in all scenes except the darkest. Higher light output than HD750 in calibrated modus.

The reviewer declared it the new reference projector and better than the HD750 (Witch he owns himself) after doing several side by side comparisons …

It is going to be an interesting few months!

Thank you for this great information! Certainly if Sony nearly doubled ANSI CR that would be a great achievement after a few years of little progress in this area by the SXRD/LCoS camps. And if that is the case I would anticipate JVC made significant progress in this area as well.

Did the reviewer make any comments about any lens quality and sharpness improvements? Also any comments about how well the DI worked or improvements there?

And yes I would anticipate that the 85 would best the HD750, afterall it is a next gen vs. current gen comparison. The more interesting side by side test will be comparing the 85 for the JVC HD990. That aside it is at least reassuring that the 85 has raised the bar. Interesting times indeed!

Thank you for this great information! Certainly if Sony nearly doubled ANSI CR that would be a great achievement after a few years of little progress in this area by the SXRD/LCoS camps. And if that is the case I would anticipate JVC made significant progress in this area as well.

Did the reviewer make any comments about any lens quality and sharpness improvements? Also any comments about how well the DI worked or improvements there?

And yes I would anticipate that the 85 would best the HD750, afterall it is a next gen vs. current gen comparison. The more interesting side by side test will be comparing the 85 for the JVC HD990. That aside it is at least reassuring that the 85 has raised the bar. Interesting times indeed!

Agreed. :)

I think price wise the VW85 should be compared to the HD950, no? The HD990 is more expensive than the VW85, IIRC.

Do we expect that this is a precursor to discontinuance of the VPL-VW200? Or is that just an unknown at this point?

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

I think price wise the VW85 should be compared to the HD950, no? The HD990 is more expensive than the VW85, IIRC.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/09/09/sony-brings-projectors-for-everyone-with-vpl-vw85-and-vpl-hw15/

Well, hell... It's official... about $8000USD MSRP... Hope I can find a better deal online or I might have to stick with my original plan to pick up a VW70...

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/09/09/sony-brings-projectors-for-everyone-with-vpl-vw85-and-vpl-hw15/
Well, as I said, that price matches the HD950 and not the HD990.

A Norwegian Home Theater Magazine has tested new VW-85 and says that it clearly is better than both VW200 and JVD HD750 (which they also have tested of course).

A Norwegian Home Theater Magazine has tested new VW-85 and says that it clearly is better than both VW200 and JVD HD750 (which they also have tested of course).

Of course I would expect the VW-85 to be better than the HD 750. That is comparing a new gen projector to an old gen one. The real comparison I am interested in is to see how the VW-85 compares to the HD 990.

Of course I would expect the VW-85 to be better than the HD 750. That is comparing a new gen projector to an old gen one. The real comparison I am interested in is to see how the VW-85 compares to the HD 990.

Well, pricewise its competeing with the HD950. The 990 is a 950 with cherry-picked parts. Its got a few people quite angry that because of this the 950 will get the 'leftovers'.

Well, pricewise its competeing with the HD950. The 990 is a 950 with cherry-picked parts. Its got a few people quite angry that because of this the 950 will get the 'leftovers'.

It also have a few people quite excited that they can pay a premium to get a unit with hand pick parts.

how do you know that is a completely correct statement? is it by reading what everyone is saying on the jvc thread? c'mon, no one knows what the 990 will be like and if it does indeed use a superior lens than the 950. that would make for a price increase. and yes, hand picked parts can yield a significantly better picture and may warrant an even higher price tag than $2k. we should wait and see until making such assertions. those in the jvc thread are mostly trying to defend their purchase of the rs20 and complaining that the rs25 "won't be better". the same thing happened a year ago from the rs2 to rs20. same people trying to defend their purchase. they can be angry all they want, but in the end they end up selling their pj and move up.

The JVC press release seems to indicate the 990 is essentially hand picked parts and final adjustments by technicians. I was hoping for more - they don't even mention the "new" wire grid polarizer that was being talked about a few weeks back.

http://www.jvc.com/press/index.jsp?item=720&pageID=3&PressKitID=18

So anyone at CEDIA that can compare the VW-85 with the 950/900, post away!

I plan to compare both... :)

I plan to compare both... :)

Remember I paypaled you $2 for your old Onkyo connection, so I want first dibs on the info :)

Curious about sports/fast motion performance, along with the boring contrast color stuff...:eek:

FYI according to UltimateAV: "Tom Norton has already conducted a review of a pre-production unit for Home Theater, and he liked it very much"

I spent some time watching the VW 85. Hard to really evaluate since they ( Sony ) only had animation movies on ( which make anything look good ). It looked pretty good though.

A Norwegian Home Theater Magazine has tested new VW-85 and says that it clearly is better than both VW200 and JVD HD750 (which they also have tested of course).

Does anyone have an English version of this?

An in depth test of the WV 85 test is published in the Norwegian magazine Hjemmekino today. Measured Native contrast over 20000:1 ANSI contrast have almost doubled (can’t remember the number but near 500:1). This calibrated with correct colours and gray scale. The higher ansi contrast makes a big difference in all scenes except the darkest. Higher light output than HD750 in calibrated modus.

The reviewer declared it the new reference projector and better than the HD750 (Witch he owns himself) after doing several side by side comparisons …

It is going to be an interesting few months!
Sounds like a print only magazine.

Sounds like a print only magazine.

http://www.hjemmekino.no/database/projektorinfo.aspx?katalognr=164

Sony VPL-VW85 is a SXRD-projector. The projector has a resolution of 1920 x 1080 pixler (full HDTV-resolution), and the has provided a contrast ratio of 120000:1. Brightness is provided to 800 ANSI lumens in the maximum brightness
Connections
projector is well-prepared for the digital future with 2 HDMI inputs. It also has 1 item komponentinngang and in addition own S-video/komposittingang. It also has VGA input for PC connection.

The projector is based on SXRD technology developed by Sony. This is a technology that gives a fantastic sortnivå and kontrastnivå. Read more about this teknolgien in our projektorguide.
Already
the projector supports the new x.v .Color standard. X.v .Color doubles almost workspace that can be reproduced exactly, so that red-, Blue- and grønnfarger may be reproduced more precise and living

This projector satisfies HD-ready 1080p standard, which means that it supports HDTV-standards 720p, 1080i and 1080p. This includes support for 1080p/24Hz which provides the most credible movie playback when film is recorded with this speed. This format you get from most HD DVD and Blu-Ray players.

Placement

depending on the location of screen and innstillningen on zoom can be the projector even produce a picture from 40" to 300". With zoom on maximum can cope with the projector to create a 100" picture (220 cm wide) from approximately 3.1 meters high, and with minimum zoom can cope with the same image size from approximately 5.3 meters. This gives a zoomforhold at approximately 1:1.71 something that is is relatively good and makes it quite plasseringsvennlig when it comes to distance from canvas. Adjustment of the zoom and focus is done to the actual manuellt projector.

The projector is equipped with vertical linsevinkling which means that the picture can exalted and made in relation to the projector without that it will lose image quality. The picture can be exalted with 65% and made with 65%. This means that, with 100" image size (125cm height) will be able to place image nerkant between approximately 143 cm under linsesentrum to 19 cm of linsesentrum. This flexible høydejusteringen makes possible a breeze. In rooms with normal takhøyde (approximately 240 cm) and with a canvas on 100" will be fine could place canvas in a comfortable height even though the projector will be placed absolutely firm under the ceiling. Linsevinklingen is manual and adjusted to the actual projector

Kalibreringsmuligheter

Projector has that virtually all other projector, setting for fargemengde and tone.
For adjustment of correct gammakurve has projector own controls for this.
If you want to learn more how you even can adjust projectors to the best possible result, you can read our guide about calibration with the help of DVE or guide for calibrating with the help of HCFR.

Lamp

Guaranteed lifetime on the lighthead is 3 participation This is a very bad Bulb guarantee from the producer and means in practice that you can risk having to pay for a new bulb after just 3 months even though the pæren only is used 100 hours.
So far, we have not registered some shops that sell this model.

For all technical details, see specifications.

Perhaps there's more than this, but I couldn't find it. Didn't see any comparison to any other brand, such as JVC. By the way, I've always maintained that SXRD renders a fantastic sortnivå ;)

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THE VW-200 IS BEING DISCONTINUED?

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

very funny - fantastic sortniva is how i base all my projector decisions

:D Well, maybe you're not far off the ball. "Sortnivå" is "black level" and that is definitely something many here on AVS base their buying decision on. :)

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THE VW-200 IS BEING DISCONTINUED?

Thanks,

Nick :cool:[/QUOTE]

Last we were told the answer is no. It will remain in their line up as their flagship...

The test is unfortunately print only. This is their afiliated Web pages product description for the VW 85, not the test.

http://www.hjemmekino.no/database/projektorinfo.aspx?katalognr=164



Perhaps there's more than this, but I couldn't find it. Didn't see any comparison to any other brand, such as JVC. By the way, I've always maintained that SXRD renders a fantastic sortnivå ;)

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THE VW-200 IS BEING DISCONTINUED?

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

Google translation of the Norwegian test:

Like most Sony-connoisseurs NOK already implied in the model designation,
VW85 is not a
new platform, but rather a modified
projector, built on the platform from
VW80. There is, however, made grip that gives
radical improvements, which far surpasses
our expectations. Thus appears not
VW85 only as an upgraded VW80. About
predecessor, we wrote something like "best
Sony ever ", which is not saying interest
little. The essential in today's upgrade,
is a tremendous expansion of the contrast area,
and especially the projector's ability to
render dynamic images. There are in fact not
so high on / off contrast is synonymous
with good image dynamics, too often results
the only good dynamics in the darkest scenes.
Take, for example, JVC's top model
HD750. It has by far the highest market
contrast (without the use of dynamic iris),
resulting in the best dynamics
available anywhere in dark scenes. In light
scenes, however, is the projector's ability to
to choke unwanted light (internal flare) that is
importantly, that so-called ANSI contrast. ANSIkontrast
is the contrast between the measuring
bright and dark spots in a checkerboard pattern.
While the JVC HD750 measures just over the
200:1 ANSI contrast, Sony has managed to squeeze
out twice, that is ANSI contrast levels
with good DLP projectors. This gives therefore
a completely different experience of light and the dark
scenes, we actually found most of the
film collection.
No kid in town
Model selection for Sony does not strictly
of the two SXRD-based projectors. The upcoming
mid-range model VPL-HW15
(replaces HW10), and high-end projector
VPL-VW85. There is also an "ultra HighEnd
"Model called the VPL-VW200, but this
is now outdated in relation to the HW15 and VW85.
As a result, we are left with two relevant
models, both of which are actually among the most
interesting projectors in today's market.
We can not call VW85
something other than a projector.
It weighs just over 12
pounds, and measures nearly a
halvmeter both in breadth
and length. The advantage of
size is that it allows
an advanced cooling system,
with low air resistance.
It is known that air resistance
are most likely to
causing the noise from the cooling system,
and when VW85
are among the quietest projectors
in the market, it becomes easy to f. size
on the projector. It is made modifications
in the cooling system in relation to the VW80, and
VW85 is noticeably quieter than its
predecessor. In the test period, we had VW85
placed right behind his position, only marginally
above head height. The undersigned has well
never been less plagued by noise, and even when
light went on full voltage, it was never
significant fan noise from the projector. With
Considering that it blows cool air out in front,
it is quite impressive.
Its appearance is not the projector
so grandiose that the goals
would suggest, something we can ascribe
a successful design.
Put the right front projector has
form of an eye, the
lens forms the pupil.
The chassis seems solid, and
it gradually so familiar
blue metallic paint give the
in high style. Front
Of course mate, so that the
does not reflect light against the canvas.
Technically, Sony
truly been a pioneer in projection development
In recent years, which kullminerte
in the top model VW200, and its
advanced image processing, Bravia Pro. Anything
This is now further developed, and ensure that
VW85 has some of the best in image processing
in its class. There are processors with marginally crisper image, but
no one who retains the peace we experience from
Sony's Bravia Engine. The latter operates
up to 120 hertz, which allows
interpolation, the better the image flow. Sony's
unique convergence adjustment is taken from
cinema machines in the professional market, and enables
individual adjustment of the convergence down
in small areas at a time,
so perfect convergence
can be achieved over
absolutely wide viewing angle.
Other properties
I want to emphasize, is
improved contrast, and
opportunity to enter the light or
dark images between the images in the source material,
for in this way to make the projected
image lighter or darker. When it comes to
contrast level, so this is where Sony really
has had a breakthrough with the VW85. As
most other manufacturers, Sony gradually
got better and better control of unwanted
flare in the optical device. This
they get to the increasingly improved control of
polarization and filtering of unwanted light. That
that makes VW85 unique, is that Sony also has
managed to increase the contrast in bright scenes, so that
ANSI contrast is almost doubled compared to
main competitor. We set up an HD750
and VW85 side by side, and it was drastically
difference in perceived image dynamics (ANSIkontrast)
in bright scenes. HD750 is marginally
better in the very darkest scenes, but these
stages constitute the an infinitesimal
small part of our film archive.
Once it is introduced
a little light in the scenes, has
VW85 much lower proportion
flare leaking over
in the dark areas,
so that black appears far
sort. The total experience of contrast
is therefore better, and the perceived image depth
increased significantly.
Location wise the VW85 nice to have
making. The motorized optics gives
opportunity to move the image 65 percent each
way in the height direction (percentage of image height),
and 25 percent in each direction sideways.
With optics centered throw projector
the picture straight on, ie, the optimal placement
the VW85 is aligned with the center in
canvas. The maximum shift of 65
percent, meaning that the projector can be placed
anything from 15 percent (of image height) of the canvas,
to 15 percent below. Zoom area
is 1.6:1, and is based on a 100
inch screen, the projector can be placed all
from 3.3 to 4.8 meters away.
Calibration
The device we are testing this time is a
preproduksjonsenhet, where color and gamma setup
not yet fully developed. As
EISA representative in Norway, we are often in
products for evaluation long before they reach
store shelves. The disadvantage is that the products
are not always 100 percent fine-tuned, and so is
Thus, the case with the VW85. For this reason,
I do not put too much weight on the calibration
of the projector, but chooses to see more on
potential.
The first thing that strikes me when the projector
be calibrated, is that it now has far more
color space to choose from. Wide1 correspond
well with the standard for HDTV, so the
forms the basis for further calibration.
Color temperature need some adjustment,
and since the gamma set in the projector
not yet fully developed, so I end up
with a small deviation in the color temperature at 70
percent intensity (70IRE). This I choose
not to emphasize, when Sony announced this
even before we mottokk projector. This
According to Sony will be optimized prior to production units
leaves the assembly line.
After gråskalajustering also
secondary colors found his choir-direct position in color space and color reproduction
perceived correctly. It seems that Sony
also have control of the color red, and the
nor the orange as before (at
100 IRE). Shadow Details No, I had to
work a little to get to, and I ascribe it
unfinished gammakalibreringen the projector.
However, it was relatively easy to obtain
in place this parameter as well, and after
completing the calibration, it is a new projection reference
I contemplated. Shadow details are
better than the HD750, although the dynamics
in the very darkest sequences NOK has little
more punch on the latter. As soon as we move
us over the scenes with some more light snuff
relationship, and black appears suddenly cried on
JVC projector, while the VW85 seems to have
infinite contrast ratio.
The dynamic iris of the VW85 works
very well, and is clearly directed toward
how our eyes adjust to transitions
between light and darkness. VW85 has
also got a new iris and gamma compensation,
called "Advanced Iris 3. This helps
better dynamics in dark scenes, than the
we could achieve with the VW80. The fact
that because the contrast of the projector is doubled
compared to the VW80, and now measures up against
20.000:1 (measured after calibration), is also
contributing to the dynamic iris
becomes less pronounced. With the iris of his most
active mode (auto1) lifted the contrast level
to well over 70.000:1, and when it should not
much imagination to guess that this is perceived
awesome. That because the contrast is increased by
100 percent compared to the VW80 is nothing
than impressive. Black level from VW85 can
not be described as another one very well,
and without the detail in dark areas
suppressed. In addition, it is possible to
customize blacks entirely their own preferences
in the rich menu. The Experts Menu
is therefore "black-level correction"
first parameter out, and this is certainly
an interesting feature. When autoirisen is
disabled, helping setting "low" to something
improved black level and without compromising
over details no. Black is only noticeable
darker. When autoirisen is active suppressed
However, the darkest shadow detail,
so here should feature disabled.
Another way to improve black level
found in the Motion Flow menu. "Film Projection
"Sony calls the feature that is intended
To reduce blurring of fast motion
(motion blur). This is done exactly as in
cinema, by introducing black spot between
images on film roll. At the cinema closes the lens
between each image on the film roll, and VW80
do (if desired) the same thing digitally. I
may therefore choose to introduce dark images
between each image in the source material, and in
also decide how dark it paid
image should be. I found the moderate
Modus3 that the only interesting, there
update rate and double the
paid in the picture is a darker copy of the
foregoing. This contributes to additional fullness
in black, without the brightness of the light areas are reduced
too much. In Modus1 it is paid
image completely black, thus reducing
also the brightness significantly. The disadvantage of
so-called black frame insertion, is a little flap
in the picture ala what we're used to from cinema, and in addition
reduces the dynamic somewhat.
In the said Motion Flow menu, we also find
feature "motion enhancement". That
are 120 hertz image processing is
to its right, in that all source material to
could run in the double (or triple) refresh rate,
with interpolated
images between each original image
from the source material. This provides better
flow in the picture, especially with fast motion
or pan. Unfortunately, introduces
it is also a lot of strange artifacts and noise in
image, so yours truly prefer to live
with the drawbacks 24 Hertz source material
causes, rather than images full of artifacts
reminiscent of the poor de-interlacing. That
only exception is in cases where it is important
to get with the text that pan. With
feature set to "high" are namely the total
pan unreadable text suddenly aware
that day.
Image Most of the rare
There is always a pleasure to test projectors
Sony, for they have a separate row over
film reproduction. It is difficult to put
finger on exactly what it is we find
most attractive, if it is the lack of
noise and turbulence, or whether it is the soft
panning. Image sharpness is not
a say in, not even side by side with the
Reon image processor in HD750 drives up
with. Color reproduction is superb on both
projectors, but the VW85 has a little more
natural glow of the colors. It can be quite
simply be that there is more pressure in the image, and
that this creates a more realistic representation
of the colors? I can of course not measure
experience, since both projectors measures
virtually identical color coordinates. When
For noise, or so-called "movie
grain ", so this is far more important
the HD750, and it even without the noise reduction
in VW85 is enabled. The projector has
also noise reduction for both block noise and
moskitostøy, which can make
wonders when the DVD collection
recalled. HD-media prefer
I without any
Noise, then VW85 at no
way emphasizes such unrest.
One of the things I find most
attractive with the VW85 is the dynamics
in daylight scenes. The
is on par with what we feel
from good DLP projectors, but
then without any turbulence in the color wheel
latter technology to introduce.
VW85 is simply
first projector we've tested that
combines high ANSI contrast
with good on / off contrast. This
is clearly a success recipe
I hope more manufacturers
will emphasize. We are now over
model change from most manufacturers,
and it is very
interesting to see if competitors
continue chasing after higher
on / off contrast (looks best on
paper), or whether they also emphasize
dynamics in bright scenes. In
test period, I have retrieved
all source material from the test of
predecessor VW80, and it is
little doubt that the two are built on the same
platform. Image processing seems
identical to what I experienced from the VW80,
and it is not a bad reference to have. Red
appears, as previously mentioned, some more
naturally, but otherwise there is little to distinguish
the two. The only thing is the glow
that conjure up in the daylight scenes
from the VW85, which I have chosen to
crediting the powerful upgraded
image dynamics.
Conclusion
Now was not just Sony far
behind in the field from before, but VW85
may have been just that little
fine tuning as needed to
secure place of honor, namely hanging
the ceiling in your home theater
among the most hardened video file.
There is little doubt that this
is king of the hill right now,
and it will be interesting to see what they
nearest competitors respond
with. The first impressions appear
well up around the same time with
that this issue of Home Theater
when the store shelves (the IFA).
Currently, Sony VPL-VW85 our
new projector reference, and the
is also obvious winner of this year's
EISA Award in High-End segment




Measurements

It is a bit of an upgrade Sony has performed with the VW85. The contrast is doubled compared to the outgoing VW80, and
this was, in general, among our clear favorites in the high-end segment. However, it is the increase in the ANSI contrast we
find most attractive, for it says little about the dynamics of the projector are available in everything from light to medium dark scenes.
Or in other words, how well the projector is able to choke the light in dark areas, when it is otherwise a lot of light in the picture. For
example, where the dark shaded alley appears in the scene that is otherwise characterized by daylight.
Contrast measurements are made with both the lens and zoom close to the center position. The contrast measures the higher the maximum
zoom, but we represent the numbers we achieve in the test setup (projector placed about 4.2 meters away from a 100-inch big screen).
Lamp Control
High Low
Calibrated Cinema mode, manual iris (50%) 19.620:1 18.650:1
Calibrated Cinema mode, with dynamic iris 65.523:1 57.080:1
ANSI contrast (contrast of checkerboard pattern) 403:1 398:1
Color and gråskalakalibrering is really no point to comment, for this preproduksjonsenheten is not
100% pre-calibrated from Sony's side. What we can mention is that the color space seems improved compared to the VW80, and that
red now do not burn out at full intensity.
The brightness is impressive in terms of specification, for the specified 800 ansilumens delivered by a wide margin. With
maximum zoom, I measured 835 ansilumen, and adapted our test configuration provided the appropriate 751ansilumen. Both measurements
is done after calibration.

Conclusion
We like
• Good dynamics (high ansi contrast)
• Color management
• Low noise
• Extremely good shadow detail
• Imaging
• Bright in relation to specification
• Good optics
• Pixel density
We don’t like
• stray light from the cooling channel

Google translation of the Norwegian test
Thanks much!!

The one part of the review I didn't understand was this bit about sharpness:

> Image sharpness is not
> a say in, not even side by side with the
> Reon image processor in HD750 drives up
> with.

What does that mean?

From the review this looks to be one of the best projectors on the market at just about any price. The thing that kills it for me is the poor frame interpolation so Ill be looking elsewhere. According the Cine4Home both Epson and Panasonic have very good FI for 2009.

Neither Panasonic nor Epson have Dark/Black Frame Insertion, which I find more interesting for films than Frame Interpolation. For sports Frame Interpolation is probably better, though.

I find the on/off contrast ratio quite impressive. If I calculated correctly, the numbers in the review are from middle throw. So with long throw they should be even higher.

It's as sharp if not sharper than the HD750.


Thanks much!!

The one part of the review I didn't understand was this bit about sharpness:

> Image sharpness is not
> a say in, not even side by side with the
> Reon image processor in HD750 drives up
> with.

What does that mean?

Wow...I hope someone does a shootout between the RS-25/35 and the VW85. As it stands now the VW85 was only compared to last year's JVC king, the RS-20. It seems as if if Sony made a big jump in quality to the VW85, so JVC would need an equally big jump in the RS series in order to keep pace.

From the review this looks to be one of the best projectors on the market at just about any price. The thing that kills it for me is the poor frame interpolation so Ill be looking elsewhere. According the Cine4Home both Epson and Panasonic have very good FI for 2009.

Interesting - Joerod, can you comment on the what the Norwegian review might be talking about - presuming for the moment the motionflow technology is the same on the 85 and the 200, which you own, do you notice a lot of artifacts when watching TV/Sports with FI on (no dark frame insertion)?

Thanks

Interesting - Joerod, can you comment on the what the Norwegian review might be talking about - presuming for the moment the motionflow technology is the same on the 85 and the 200, which you own, do you notice a lot of artifacts when watching TV/Sports with FI on (no dark frame insertion)?

Thanks

Greg

Hi. I actually do not see what they are talking about. Of course I only use MF with DFI for Sports (mainly football). The picture in Dynamic Mode has vibrant colors with plenty of depth. Of course the most important feature for me is the sharpness remaining during a play. And I use DFI on low mode. Any higher and it will darken the picture to much. Not sure which sources they are using. I can't talk (NDA) about the source (VP) I have just started using this week but the VW200 has never looked better in my theater. I have been sending computer levels (PC levels are my favorite for sports) with upconverted 36 bit color depth. Doing so has made the football field's turf/grass, helmets and cheerleaders look that much better! As an eye-candy extremist I go all out for games. Tomorrow I am looking forward to week 1. But the picture has also improved with all programming. I can't say anymore beyond that.

I should point out that I still plan to test drive the VW85 and the JVC 990...

I should point out that I still plan to test drive the VW85 and the JVC 990...
I will most definitely be looking out for that comparison! :)

Hi. I actually do not see what they are talking about. Of course I only use MF with DFI for Sports (mainly football). The picture in Dynamic Mode has vibrant colors with plenty of depth. Of course the most important feature for me is the sharpness remaining during a play. And I use DFI on low mode. Any higher and it will darken the picture to much. Not sure which sources they are using. I can't talk (NDA) about the source (VP) I have just started using this week but the VW200 has never looked better in my theater. I have been sending computer levels (PC levels are my favorite for sports) with upconverted 36 bit color depth. Doing so has made the football field's turf/grass, helmets and cheerleaders look that much better! As an eye-candy extremist I go all out for games. Tomorrow I am looking forward to week 1. But the picture has also improved with all programming. I can't say anymore beyond that.

I should point out that I still plan to test drive the VW85 and the JVC 990...

Thanks joerod...

I thought dark frame insertion was more for film based content, and plain old motionflow more for video based content. Curious if you have a chance to watch some sports with motionflow on, and DFI off, if there any artifacts. Or perhaps my understanding of how the two technologies intertwine is not accurate.

The shootout between the 85 and 990 will be very interesting. i love my HD-750 in every way except for fast motion blurring and edge breakdown - since I watch a lot of sports this is more of an issue than someone who is watching 1080p/24 most of the time.

The early lean here seems to be toward the 85, as it appears JVC didn't make a lot of HW changes for this year. If the 85 can get to the HD-750 black levels or better, along with excellent FI and sharpness, this will be the one to beat I think.

Also, is the convergence feature a real benefit, or more gimmicky?

Thanks

DFI does work well with movies (especially Black and White). I have not seen any artifacts using DFI on its own. I only use MF with sports and I do set it to high. Using the DFI with MF during sports really seems to help with contrast and motion. I am anxious to check out the 990 since we all knew how I felt about the RS20. I loved it except for the motion handling.

The pic below is with the DFI (on low) on (MF as well). With it off the grass goes to a lighter shade and seems to lose some sharpness.

...The early lean here seems to be toward the 85...

What are you basing that on? I seem to be leaning the other way, but with the HD 990 (not HD 950).

What are you basing that on? I seem to be leaning the other way, but with the HD 990 (not HD 950).

I'm certainly not making a final decision, and there's a lot more head to head comparisons and measurements that I'm awaiting, but some of the early testing we've been reading about seems to indicate the black levels and contrast exceed that of the RS20/HD750 (I'm not too hung up on native vs dynamic at this point - having the Epson 7500 with DI side by side with the HD750 proved how close they were in real-world viewing) - not sure how much more would be discernible to me in my 90-95% bat cave; potentially better calibrated brightness; Sony's two or three year head start with frame interpolation technology and their use of of DFI; convergence controls (if they are not gimmicky); prior reputation of fast panels with minimal blurring/edge breakdown (based also on Jeff Meier's review of various projector technologies he's worked with over the years); and, compared to the 990, thousands less!

It's only a lean, not a decision... :), as JVC will address some of these issues with the new models - but at the end of the day, if they don't exceed the performance of the VW-85, I'm not sure what would compel me to spend the additional money on the 990.

I'm certainly not making a final decision, and there's a lot more head to head comparisons and measurements that I'm awaiting, but some of the early testing we've been reading about seems to indicate the black levels and contrast exceed that of the RS20/HD750 (I'm not too hung up on native vs dynamic at this point - having the Epson 7500 with DI side by side with the HD750 proved how close they were in real-world viewing) - not sure home much more would be discernible to me in my 90-95% bat cave; potentially better calibrated brightness; Sony's two or three year head start with frame interpolation technology and their use of of DFI; convergence controls (if they are not gimmicky); prior reputation of fast panels with minimal blurring/edge breakdown (based also on Jeff Meier's review of various projector technologies he's worked with over the years); and, compared to the 990, thousands less!

It's only a lean, not a decision... :), as JVC will address some of these issues with the new models - but at the end of the day, if they don't exceed the performance of the VW-85, I'm not sure what would compel me to spend the additional money on the 990.

I agree. Sony seems to have made some nice improvements since last year. It is nice news with an otherwise pretty slow CEDIA. The Sony seems to have increased theire native on/off to the point where it will be good enough in real world viewing as compared to the JVC king, and it appears they may still have the ansi advantage. It also seems like a relatively good deal money wise.

I would love to see the VW-85 come shining through and become a viable option for me over the RS35. However one major hesitation is the lack of a full CMS on the Sony. Since dialing in the colors on my RS20 exactly to Rec 709 standards there is no going back for me. Even if the VW-85 gets it "close" out of the box, it may not be close enough. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

I would love to see the VW-85 come shining through and become a viable option for me over the RS35. However one major hesitation is the lack of a full CMS on the Sony. Since dialing in the colors on my RS20 exactly to Rec 709 standards there is no going back for me. Even if the VW-85 gets it "close" out of the box, it may not be close enough. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Good point....

I'm certainly not making a final decision, and there's a lot more head to head comparisons and measurements that I'm awaiting, but some of the early testing we've been reading about seems to indicate the black levels and contrast exceed that of the RS20/HD750 (I'm not too hung up on native vs dynamic at this point - having the Epson 7500 with DI side by side with the HD750 proved how close they were in real-world viewing) - not sure how much more would be discernible to me in my 90-95% bat cave; potentially better calibrated brightness; Sony's two or three year head start with frame interpolation technology and their use of of DFI; convergence controls (if they are not gimmicky); prior reputation of fast panels with minimal blurring/edge breakdown (based also on Jeff Meier's review of various projector technologies he's worked with over the years); and, compared to the 990, thousands less!

It's only a lean, not a decision... :), as JVC will address some of these issues with the new models - but at the end of the day, if they don't exceed the performance of the VW-85, I'm not sure what would compel me to spend the additional money on the 990.

I am curious why you are not considering the Epson 8500? You liked Epson's motion handling on the 7500 and it seems they have improved the motion handling even further with a new chip. Do you have that much faith in the Sony's or JVC's motion handling that one of them will get it right?

Football pics from tonight's game... I will post the rest in the VW200 thread... :)

Don't miss the last pic! ;)

Football pics from tonight's game... I will post the rest in the VW200 thread... :)

Don't miss the last pic! ;)

Amazing pics Joerod. You know how to get my front projector juices a-flowin'!:D

Thanks. :) It's that crazy time of year again.

Thanks. :) It's that crazy time of year again.

This will be the year I jump into the front projection game. Both the VW85 and JVC RS25 are at the top of my list.

This will be the year I jump into the front projection game. Both the VW85 and JVC RS25 are at the top of my list.

I think they are both superb products. Would be nice to see them side by side to see if one could really tell if there were any significant advances of one over the other; more likely, each would be marginally better than the other in different parameters/features.

We got our Vw85's friday and I set one up right out of the box and its just sitting on my roll around cart... On our Stewart 123" Firehawk G3, I have never seen a picture like this ever.. The Blacks are unreal and it for sure it superb to the 200's I have setup.. The colors are at a level that I think are much more vibrant than the 200 as well. Believe me I love the 200 and i installed more than 40 of the but I am quite positive that this smokes the 200 by alot.. The overall picture is vibrant , colorful and very very sharp. It looks like 1080P should look..Very very accurate and it has me putting in movie after movie waiting to see what I am going to see next..

I am seeing alot of things I have never seen before in the way of oh my god picture quality.

I am installing this monday at one of my customers homes and removing his Sim2 30K piece, he has had 5 major failures with the Sim2 and he wants me to dump it and replace it with a reliable Sony.. As usual I am more than glad to make my customer happy.

More to follow after the install..

I am going to do a A/B comparison before I remove the Sim2 but I know already this Sony Smokes it...

craig

We got our Vw85's friday and I set one up right out of the box and its just sitting on my roll around cart... On our Stewart 123" Firehawk G3, I have never seen a picture like this ever.. The Blacks are unreal and it for sure it superb to the 200's I have setup.. The colors are at a level that I think are much more vibrant than the 200 as well. Believe me I love the 200 and i installed more than 40 of the but I am quite positive that this smokes the 200 by alot.. The overall picture is vibrant , colorful and very very sharp. It looks like 1080P should look..Very very accurate and it has me putting in movie after movie waiting to see what I am going to see next..

I am seeing alot of things I have never seen before in the way of oh my god picture quality.

I am installing this monday at one of my customers homes and removing his Sim2 30K piece, he has had 5 major failures with the Sim2 and he wants me to dump it and replace it with a reliable Sony.. As usual I am more than glad to make my customer happy.

More to follow after the install..

I am going to do a A/B comparison before I remove the Sim2 but I know already this Sony Smokes it...

craig
Awesome feedback. I was starting to get a bit nervous about the new JVC options potentially pulling me away from Sony. However, it sounds like I may not be all that tempted after all. Sounds like it would look great on my Studiotek 130 G3.

It's too bad that the vw-85 doesn't have a CMS. It sounds like a very nice package otherwise.

LG,

But do you really need a full CMS to get it spot on?

Sony is known to be really good OOTB and you still have adjustment capability even without the full CMS. Maybe an experienced calibrator can chime in? Someone with experience of the VW70/80 for example? ;)

I am hoping to get my hands on one of these shortly... :)

We got our Vw85's friday and I set one up right out of the box and its just sitting on my roll around cart... On our Stewart 123" Firehawk G3, I have never seen a picture like this ever...
craig

Thanks for the report.

Its hard to put this into context, not knowing what other pjs you have seen in the past. In particular, are you very familiar with the RS20 and if so how do you think it compares?

LG,

But do you really need a full CMS to get it spot on?

Sony is known to be really good OOTB and you still have adjustment capability even without the full CMS. Maybe an experienced calibrator can chime in? Someone with experience of the VW70/80 for example? ;)

With a description from VGI (Craig) of "The overall picture is vibrant , colorful..." it sounds like a CMS would be needed. Rec 709 colors are typically not described as vibrant. That is usually how oversaturated colors are described.

My understanding is that the color adjustments in the Sony's are available only on 2 axis (xy) and do not allow adjustment of Y, which is just as important.

If it turns out that with the right color mode selected all primaries and secondaries are spot on Rec 709, than a CMS would not be necessary (except for folks that purposely wanted to oversaturate the colors - but for that they could just use the wider gamut setting).

However due to variances in bulbs and screens it would be hard to image having perfect Rec 709 colors OOTB. Perhaps it would be close enough, but for me that would have to be just about perfect.

But do you really need a full CMS to get it spot on?

I think so. Colors change as the lamp ages. These may not be radical changes but for people who want to keep their display calibrated, a full CMS is required.

I think so. Colors change as the lamp ages. These may not be radical changes but for people who want to keep their display calibrated, a full CMS is required.
Not really, Lawguy. A full CMS is definitely preferable, but not necessary IF the RGB color coordinates are at very least close to where they are supposed to be AND the color decoder is working as it should. In that case, one only needs RGB bias and gain controls to calibrate and to keep the projector calibrated throughout the life of the lamp.

A full CMS becomes necessary when the color points are way off the mark (like the RS-1 ;) ) and need to have either saturation or hue adjusted (or both) to bring them into place. In that case, it is common that Y (luminance) will need to be adjusted as well because the saturation and hue controls, when adjusted, can also throw off luminance.

But if the color points are reasonably accurate to begin with, they should not move over the life of the lamp, nor should the color decoding, so all that is necessary to keep the projector calibrated is a good, working set of RGB gain and bias controls.

If I were really concerned about having my projector tweaked perfectly all of the time, then I would just buy a Radiance and be done with it, as its controls are quite a bit more extensive and useful than even a well designed CMS. And then you would never have to limit your projector choice again...;)

Does AVS carry/sell the Sony Projectors?

Does AVS carry/sell the Sony Projectors?

Yes.

Yes.

Will the VW-85 fall under Sony's "Sure" pricing (locked at MSRP)?

Anyone know of a group buy for this projector?

Will the VW-85 fall under Sony's "Sure" pricing (locked at MSRP)?
If it is locked at MSRP, then I will most definitely cross it off of my list. Is this "sure" pricing something new?

If it is locked at MSRP, then I will most definitely cross it off of my list. Is this "sure" pricing something new?

It's been around for a year or so, but I've seen "flexibility" applied by many retailers despite this - not sure if AVS has to remain strict on this point or not...

It's been around for a year or so, but I've seen "flexibility" applied by many retailers despite this - not sure if AVS has to remain strict on this point or not...

That's what I understand as well... Hopefully the flexibility is there for this one as well... If not, it may be a no go for me...

...But do you really need a full CMS to get it spot on?...The VW200 is spot on dE < 2 in "normal" mode. The early reports indicate that the HW15 and VW85 has a "normal" mode which is also very accurate. No CMS required.

A wide mode is also available for the oversaturated look lovers!

The VW200 is spot on dE < 2 in "normal" mode. The early reports indicate that the HW15 and VW85 has a "normal" mode which is also very accurate. No CMS required.

A wide mode is also available for the oversaturated look lovers!

Great to hear. Can I ask where these early reports came from regarding the VW85? I wonder if this was actually measured or whether it just looked accurate by-eye.

Not really, Lawguy. A full CMS is definitely preferable, but not necessary IF the RGB color coordinates are at very least close to where they are supposed to be AND the color decoder is working as it should. In that case, one only needs RGB bias and gain controls to calibrate and to keep the projector calibrated throughout the life of the lamp.

My experience with the RS20 is that its colors drifted over time and I needed the CMS to makes some adjustments. Has anyone checked Sony projectors at various times and verified that colors do not drift?

I am not saying that colors moved a lot but they did move.

I still can't understand how people put up with ANY PJ that has a DI, it just makes me go nuts when watching a movie with the DI on..and I'm not talking about the noise of it either I'm talking about the shift in the dark scenes or ANY scene for that matter it is just so obvious it doesn't make any sense.

Maybe I'm more sensitive than the average Joe like some are with rainbows but rainbows are hard to spot, the DI working its magic is not, even my wife and kids see it & tell me they don't like it...but hey, what do we know, maybe todays PJ's with DI's are impossible to spot..but I doubt it.

I still can't understand how people put up with ANY PJ that has a DI, it just makes me go nuts when watching a movie with the DI on..and I'm not talking about the noise of it either I'm talking about the shift in the dark scenes or ANY scene for that matter it is just so obvious it doesn't make any sense.

Maybe I'm more sensitive than the average Joe like some are with rainbows but rainbows are hard to spot, the DI working its magic is not, even my wife and kids see it & tell me they don't like it...but hey, what do we know, maybe todays PJ's with DI's are impossible to spot..but I doubt it.

I had an Epson 7500 UB for several months along side the HD-750 which I still own. I never experienced any visual pumping of the black level at all with the Epson - there was a noise issue, but after the third unit (yes, great quality control from Epson :eek:), the noise issue was a non-issue.

The HD-750 was still better overall in terms of black level and color, but the Epson was surprisingly close for substantially less. But I had to sell one (and now the HD750 will go up soon), in advance of the fall technology mating season that was making me hormonally unbalanced...Thus I await the reviews of the VPL-VW85 and the JVC HD-990

I still can't understand how people put up with ANY PJ that has a DI, it just makes me go nuts when watching a movie with the DI on..and I'm not talking about the noise of it either I'm talking about the shift in the dark scenes or ANY scene for that matter it is just so obvious it doesn't make any sense.
Then you have been watching some very poorly designed DIs. I well implemented DI is next to impossible to detect in normal viewing.
Maybe I'm more sensitive than the average Joe like some are with rainbows but rainbows are hard to spot, the DI working its magic is not, even my wife and kids see it & tell me they don't like it...but hey, what do we know, maybe todays PJ's with DI's are impossible to spot..but I doubt it.
That's one of the good points about a DI - If you don't like it, then just turn it off. But for those of us who appreciate what it can do, it is a plus for any given projector regardless of its native contrast.

I still can't understand how people put up with ANY PJ that has a DI, it just makes me go nuts when watching a movie with the DI on..and I'm not talking about the noise of it either I'm talking about the shift in the dark scenes or ANY scene for that matter it is just so obvious it doesn't make any sense.

I never see the DI on my Lumis ( except sometimes with the end credits ) and I couldn't see any pumping with the new Sony VW 85 or the Epson 8500.

I am curious why you are not considering the Epson 8500? You liked Epson's motion handling on the 7500 and it seems they have improved the motion handling even further with a new chip. Do you have that much faith in the Sony's or JVC's motion handling that one of them will get it right?

I may, but I had to go through three 7500's - Epson's quality control was particularly bad, so this makes me hesitate...

I never see the DI on my Lumis

Nor does anyone else.:D

As of yet, best ever DI implementation. A ton of clever stuff going on there, not all of it fully disclosed.

I clearly remember it freaking out Alan, myself and Wolfgang.

Not really, Lawguy. A full CMS is definitely preferable, but not necessary IF the RGB color coordinates are at very least close to where they are supposed to be AND the color decoder is working as it should. In that case, one only needs RGB bias and gain controls to calibrate and to keep the projector calibrated throughout the life of the lamp.

A full CMS becomes necessary when the color points are way off the mark (like the RS-1 ;) ) and need to have either saturation or hue adjusted (or both) to bring them into place. In that case, it is common that Y (luminance) will need to be adjusted as well because the saturation and hue controls, when adjusted, can also throw off luminance.

But if the color points are reasonably accurate to begin with, they should not move over the life of the lamp, nor should the color decoding, so all that is necessary to keep the projector calibrated is a good, working set of RGB gain and bias controls.

If I were really concerned about having my projector tweaked perfectly all of the time, then I would just buy a Radiance and be done with it, as its controls are quite a bit more extensive and useful than even a well designed CMS. And then you would never have to limit your projector choice again...;)

I still can't understand how people put up with ANY PJ that has a DI, it just makes me go nuts when watching a movie with the DI on..and I'm not talking about the noise of it either I'm talking about the shift in the dark scenes or ANY scene for that matter it is just so obvious it doesn't make any sense.

Maybe I'm more sensitive than the average Joe like some are with rainbows but rainbows are hard to spot, the DI working its magic is not, even my wife and kids see it & tell me they don't like it...but hey, what do we know, maybe todays PJ's with DI's are impossible to spot..but I doubt it.

I agree with Bob there. I've owned a slew of SXRD pjs and rearpro since the Qualia and had all of them professionally calibrated. It seems CMS has become popularised and I can understand it's handy. But so far it has certainly not been a showstopper for me the way some people here have been making out. As far as lamp aging goes leading to color shift, In the case of both my current VW80's, even the one I use more or less every night would(installed in April) would be lucky to have enough hours for any perceptible change by the time I do the whats come to be a regular process of upgrading pjs to the latest versions. I know this is not the case for everyone, so CMS may play more of a part there. Also though, most people are not geared up to sit there and use CMS properly anyway, which means a visit from their calibration person which generally comes with a cost.

As far as DI goes, again since the days of VW200, which mainly only bothered me occasionally with brightness compression, I have never been able to perceive the operation. The single time I did was with my rearpro one time when I was manually tweaking the iris control in the service menu to optomise black levels. No doubt poor DI on a pj would be a total nuisance and defeat the purpose. But Sony seems to really be getting it down pat having paved the way with them.

I still can't understand how people put up with ANY PJ that has a DI, it just makes me go nuts when watching a movie with the DI on..and I'm not talking about the noise of it either I'm talking about the shift in the dark scenes or ANY scene for that matter it is just so obvious it doesn't make any sense.

Maybe I'm more sensitive than the average Joe like some are with rainbows but rainbows are hard to spot, the DI working its magic is not, even my wife and kids see it & tell me they don't like it...but hey, what do we know, maybe todays PJ's with DI's are impossible to spot..but I doubt it.


I'm with you on this. I had a VW60 for a while and the black level fluctuations drove me mad after a while. The particular movie that best illustrated it was Pan's Labyrinth in some of the underground scenes.

Hence I now have an RS2.

Yes its on Sure but we all know what that means :).. Ask joerod , he's always SURE about these things :)

I'm with you on this. I had a VW60 for a while and the black level fluctuations drove me mad after a while. The particular movie that best illustrated it was Pan's Labyrinth in some of the underground scenes.

Hence I now have an RS2.

Rob McDonough,Sony's lead projector technician indicates a significantly improved DI algorithm on the VW 85. Great blacks on the demo at CEDIA.

My concern with a DI is not necessarily that you will see it in operation. Good DIs will mostly be invisible. My concern is that the DI will operate to change a given scene (either through brightness compression or general gamma manipulation) so that you will either not see things that you ideally should or that things will look different from how they should look. Thus, people make claims that their DI is invisible, but they are ignorant of how a scene should ideally look.

Someone may claim that people under those circumstances are none the wiser but it troubles me.

For example, I was watching some horror movie with Liv Tyler last night on cable and there was a scene that was mostly pitch black and then very bright headlights became visible. Putting aside the issue about whether a DI might reveal a change in black levels as the bright lights entered the dark scene (I suspect it would), the scene was pretty amazing on the RS20. The lights were incredibly bright and the darkness was incredibly dark. I am quite sure that this scene would not have looked anywhere near as good on a projector with lower native contrast and a DI. I would love to compare them though.

I'm with you on this. I had a VW60 for a while and the black level fluctuations drove me mad after a while. The particular movie that best illustrated it was Pan's Labyrinth in some of the underground scenes.

Hence I now have an RS2.
Interesting... I never noticed DI on my WV50 including Pan's Labyrinth. Which setting are you using?

I'm with you on this. I had a VW60 for a while and the black level fluctuations drove me mad after a while. The particular movie that best illustrated it was Pan's Labyrinth in some of the underground scenes.
Steve, your DI was malfunctioning. It would drive me nuts also if that was the status quo for DIs.
For example, I was watching some horror movie with Liv Tyler last night on cable and there was a scene that was mostly pitch black and then very bright headlights became visible. Putting aside the issue about whether a DI might reveal a change in black levels as the bright lights entered the dark scene (I suspect it would), the scene was pretty amazing on the RS20. The lights were incredibly bright and the darkness was incredibly dark. I am quite sure that this scene would not have looked anywhere near as good on a projector with lower native contrast and a DI. I would love to compare them though.
That is one of the classic (and quite rare) cases where the high native contrast will be noticeably superior to the DI. If the headlights were at a lower level (like maybe 60%), then the DI would work better because it would have higher intrascene contrast (see Mark Petersen's excellent contrast project thread for the explanation). And if the scene had a higher percentage of 100% white objects in it (like approaching 50%), the projector with the higher ANSI contrast would look better. We can always go back and forth to cite examples of when a DI would work better and when higher native contrast would look better, if you have to choose one or the other. With JVC's excellent native contrast, a well implemented DI would allow the best of both worlds, but it seems that JVC is adament not to go in that direction. And as I continue to remind people, if you don't like the DI you can always turn it off.

As of this morning, Tech Data (which is now, I believe, Sony's exclusive US distributor), shows zero inventory of the VPL-VW85 in all their warehouses, with no ETA. This has been the case for several days.

VGI, just curious how did you source yours???

...there was a scene that was mostly pitch black and then very bright headlights became visible. Putting aside the issue about whether a DI might reveal a change in black levels as the bright lights entered the dark scene (I suspect it would), the scene was pretty amazing on the RS20...LG

Any current (better) DI projector will have no issues with such a scene for the following reasons:

1) If shot on film the scene contrast is likely < 300:1, HD Video < 200:1, and SD Video < 100:1. The vast majority (99 of 100 scenes) shot on commercial film is lit, setup and captured at an intra scene contrast of < 300:1!

2) There is not likely a large bright segment contrast range in addition to significant dark areas. The DI can drop light output to get the correct black level while simultaneously boosting the headlight video levels to maintain correct overall image brightness and CR without BC concerns. The larger (> 6,000:1) native engines provide enough headroom to do both.

While the result may look more dramatic on a RS20, one could argue that it looks closer to what the telecine operator saw on her ~10K to 12K:1 monitor. :D

I do agree native CR is better, all things equal.

I do agree native CR is better, all things equal.

I do too but I have not spent a great deal of time with any of the Sony projectors.

I do too but I have not spent a great deal of time with any of the Sony projectors.

I had a Ruby years ago which I really like a LOT. I used it with the DI on all the time. It never bothered me and I rarely noticed it, although at times I could detect the brightness shift. But I am also sure its been perfected a lot more since then.

What type of gamma adjustments do you anticipate the Sony will have, based on what's available in its similar lines? For instance does it have a full 11 point WRGB user adjustment?

My VW200 (which does have the latest firmware) works very well. I am also anxious to see how the VW85 works... And the 990 (without one) to. :)

What type of gamma adjustments do you anticipate the Sony will have, based on what's available in its similar lines? For instance does it have a full 11 point WRGB user adjustment?The VW85 will have Image Director3 which is a full multipoint PC based system which can produce fully customizable including S shaped IIRC curves! The HW does not support ImageDirector IIRC.

The VW85 will have Image Director3 which is a full multipoint PC based system which can produce fully customizable including S shaped IIRC curves! The HW does not support ImageDirector IIRC.

So you use the PC to create the custom gamma curves and then load these back into the pj, or do you have to keep the PC connected to use it (like an HTPC)? I think the former, but just want to be sure.

Also do you just define the curve and the pj sets the light levels accordingly? Or can you actually calibrate everything to the exact Y you want for R, G and B individually at 5% thru 95% at 5% steps?

...Also do you just define the curve and the pj sets the light levels accordingly? Or can you actually calibrate everything to the exact Y you want for R, G and B individually at 5% thru 95% at 5% steps?Like you, the last Sony SXRD I owned was the Ruby and I played with Image Director on it. IIRC it had a PC interface with the ability to drag with the mouse anywhere along the gamma curve to modify it. Seperate WRGB settings were available. The PC remained connected to it through the process. Thats all I recall. I don't know what features the current version adds.

I had a Ruby years ago which I really like a LOT. I used it with the DI on all the time. It never bothered me and I rarely noticed it, although at times I could detect the brightness shift. But I am also sure its been perfected a lot more since then.

I notice it on my VW60 every now and then, but I have it on fast so it's zip and move on. I think it's like DLP rainbows; I see them because I know to look for them. No one else has ever said a thing about the iris shift.

But it's never an issue.

Spoke with Sony again today and more incredible news.. Rob McDonough of Sony said this is the best projector Sony has ever produced..

Looks like quantities will start to arrive in 3 weeks..

As we saw with the VW60 , Sony owned the market for about a year and I am pretty sure from what we are seeing and what my friends at Sony are telling me this is going to be a Sony year again..

Judging from the Pdf cur sheets i got today from Sony, the hole layout for Brackets stayed the same and a Chief RPMA020 as we always have used should work just fine..

More to follow..

Craig Shumer

Spoke with Sony again today and more incredible news.. Rob McDonough of Sony said this is the best projector Sony has ever produced..

Looks like quantities will start to arrive in 3 weeks..

As we saw with the VW60 , Sony owned the market for about a year and I am pretty sure from what we are seeing and what my friends at Sony are telling me this is going to be a Sony year again..

Judging from the Pdf cur sheets i got today from Sony, the hole layout for Brackets stayed the same and a Chief RPMA020 as we always have used should work just fine..

More to follow..

Craig Shumer

Yeah, well, I'm sure JVC, Epson, SIM and everyone else is pretty sure their new models are also the best they've ever done too. :rolleyes:

I'm interested in the 85, but really, who cares how the manufacturer hypes their product? We are all interested in performance, on its own and in comparison with comparable competing models.

It's feeling a little shilly in here.....:)

Yeah, well, I'm sure JVC, Epson, SIM and everyone else is pretty sure their new models are also the best they've ever done too. :rolleyes:

I'm interested in the 85, but really, who cares how the manufacturer hypes their product? We are all interested in performance, on its own and in comparison with comparable competing models.

It's feeling a little shilly in here.....:)

Rob McDonough is not a salesman. He is usually at the shows to provide technical information about new introductions. Having discussed new product introductions with him at dozens of events,this is the first time he has ever mentioned "best ever" when describing a new projector. At least to my recollection.
This set is a stand out. Perhaps JVC has something comparable or better,but Sony has upped the ante here, IMHO.

Rob McDonough is not a salesman. He is usually at the shows to provide technical information about new introductions. Having discussed new product introductions with him at dozens of events,this is the first time he has ever mentioned "best ever" when describing a new projector. At least to my recollection.
This set is a stand out. Perhaps JVC has something comparable or better,but Sony has upped the ante here, IMHO.

I have no reason to hope otherwise, as I'm leaning this way myself. But I think we're all pretty much awaiting independent detailed reviews and comparisons more than anything else.

This PJ is still too dim imo, I'd like to see an LcOS/SXRD/DILA Pj with 1500 calibrated lumens to get excited but none have stepped up to the plate this year too bad.

The new Infocus 8602 and the new Optoma look promising though.

That is one of the classic (and quite rare) cases where the high native contrast will be noticeably superior to the DI. If the headlights were at a lower level (like maybe 60%), then the DI would work better because it would have higher intrascene contrast (see Mark Petersen's excellent contrast project thread for the explanation). And if the scene had a higher percentage of 100% white objects in it (like approaching 50%), the projector with the higher ANSI contrast would look better. We can always go back and forth to cite examples of when a DI would work better and when higher native contrast would look better, if you have to choose one or the other. With JVC's excellent native contrast, a well implemented DI would allow the best of both worlds, but it seems that JVC is adament not to go in that direction. And as I continue to remind people, if you don't like the DI you can always turn it off.
It kind of depends on what your eye is sensitive to, and how the DI is implemented. I have zero tolerance for DI to enhance blacks in low APL scenes because it also compresses highlights. As a cinematographer, contrast is a huge part of what we try to control, or in the case of something we can't control (a night shot of a city), we know what the analog film is going to give us. There is a "trained eye expectation" (for lack of a better term). The difference between digital projector high native on/off and DI is very obvious to me. The high native on/off contrast pj renders a low apl, high contrast scene the closest to what is photographed...to my eye.

The advent of the RS1 blew me away, and I was tolerant of many shortcomings to gain what I regarded as a huge advance: high sequential contrast. Of course, they've only gotten better since the RS1.

I would love to see technology come along that somehow used a DI or other technologies to improve infra-scene (ansi) contrast, but leave strong native sequential contrast alone. Does the Sony do this?

I have zero tolerance for DI to enhance blacks in low APL scenes because it also compresses highlights.
Hi Cam Man. Yes, I give you this scenario. High native contrast will look better for the reason that you just mentioned. But in my other examples, the DI wins in one and higher ANSI wins in the other. If you have a low APL scene and the brightest object is no higher than 60% (my example), then no brightness compression takes place, so the DI provides more intrascene contrast due to the reasons cited in Mark Petersen's contrast project (too much too explain in a single post). And in scenes where there are 0% and 100% objects in the same scene, the closer the scene looks to the standard ANSI checkerboard, the more that ANSI contrast will prevail over on/off CR, as the blacks will be elevated by the scattered light that reduces ANSI contrast in the first place.

What would you have against having a JVC with a really well designed DI? At very worst you would always have the JVC's native contrast, so you would lose NOTHING to a JVC that does not have a DI, yet you could benefit from the DI under certain circumstances. Also, the higher the native contrast, the less aggressively should the DI be used, and it follows that its use would be even less noticeable than it is now. Have you watched a projector with a really well implemented DI, like the Planar 8150 or the Sim2 Lumis? Or are you basing your opinion on some of the really poor DIs of the past?

...I would love to see technology come along that somehow used a DI or other technologies to improve infra-scene (ansi) contrast, but leave strong native sequential contrast alone. Does the Sony do this?The VW85 from early accounts has greater static contrast than the RS1, maybe more that 2 times as much.

The VW85 from early accounts has greater static contrast than the RS1, maybe more that 2 times as much.
Yes, it should be interesting to compare the RS-25/35 with the VW-85. The early rumors seem to indicate that the Sony will have native on/off of somewhere between 20k and 30k (depending on where you get your info), a DI on/off of up to 100k (I guess it depends on how aggressively the DI is used), and an ANSI CR that may be significantly higher than the JVC's. I for one would love to see a shootout between these 2 projectors to see for myself how the 2 compare using a wide variety of real world material.

Cam Man
What you are asking for is 4-panel technology. This is tried and tested technology now only available in the simulation market. We hope it is coming to the home theater market. JVC is already doing this in prototype for shown at events like CEATEC. The downside is losing light output but how much I don´t know.

I wonder if the lcos companies are waiting for lasers and decide not to go the easy way with a 300W UHP. We have become too used to silent projectors and would complain about something need a hush box.

Yes, it should be interesting to compare the RS-25/35 with the VW-85. The early rumors seem to indicate that the Sony will have native on/off of somewhere between 20k and 30k (depending on where you get your info), a DI on/off of up to 100k (I guess it depends on how aggressively the DI is used), and an ANSI CR that may be significantly higher than the JVC's. I for one would love to see a shootout between these 2 projectors to see for myself how the 2 compare using a wide variety of real world material.

agreed - I think we should assume that the 85 will be better than 2 year old JVC projectors (i.e. RS1). The real comparison will be the 85 and the RS35 as they seem to be price comparable from a street pricing standpoint

The real comparison will be the 85 and the RS35 as they seem to be price comparable from a street pricing standpoint
Street price will be the other determining factor for my decision. If the Sony lists for $8k and sells anywhere near or at that price, then it will be a no go. For me the street price will have to be comparable to the RS-25's street price, not the RS-35's, since both the RS-25 and VW-80 have the same MSRP.

my experience is that Sony does not discount off of MSRP that much - maybe it is because they have their own store - not quite sure - and I am not sure if that translates to projector sales.

my experience is that Sony does not discount off of MSRP that much - maybe it is because they have their own store - not quite sure - and I am not sure if that translates to projector sales.

Sony has their "Sure Policy" that contracts all Sony Dealers to sell at MSRP. If they do not Sony will pull the line. The contract is detailed enough to cover any work around.

So no power buys for the VW85?

Thanks for the replies. I was so impressed by the JVCs that I became a dealer, and have sold a number of them to folks in the movie business, and even AVS members before AVS really got on the band wagon. Sony is a cranky company. One thing nice about JVC is the accessiblitliy and freedom for dealers to price (affordably) as desired. Sony is not easy to access as a low volume specialty dealer.

Given the RS1 on/off is about 15K, the natvie of the Sony at twice that is impressive. If the ansi contrast is significantly better, then it is going to be quite impressive. It sounds like one could consider the DI optional.

Sony has their "Sure Policy" that contracts all Sony Dealers to sell at MSRP. If they do not Sony will pull the line. The contract is detailed enough to cover any work around.

This makes sense. Sony has a company store - and the popular products I can only get about a 15% discount on - from my employee friends.

This makes sense. Sony has a company store - and the popular products I can only get about a 15% discount on - from my employee friends.

Yep, that was a benni when doing a project at the Sony lot. Panasonic has a store on the WB lot.

The VW85 has shown up on kakaku. Just a handful of dealers, starting at what I believe is the MSRP of 630,000 JPY. Not sure of the in-Japan ship date. http://kakaku.com/pc/projector/ma_76/ At that price its going head to head with the JVC 750 or 950. The 950 has not shown up on kakaku yet. http://kakaku.com/pc/projector/ma_83/

I think the VW85 out of the gates will be positioned from a pricing standpoint right where the JVC 950 is price positioned. The JVC 750 will be price/positioned just south of the VW85. Now all we have to do is get all three of them calibrated and in a good demo room with the same screen for a face off. I can not wait!

I think the VW85 out of the gates will be positioned from a pricing standpoint right where the JVC 950 is price positioned. The JVC 750 will be price/positioned just south of the VW85. Now all we have to do is get all three of them calibrated and in a good demo room with the same screen for a face off. I can not wait!

Agreed - I would like the 35/990 included in the faceoff, since it is not clear how much the value of the hand-picked parts/tweaking is equating to viewable picture improvement. If it DOES, I might not mind the extra $2k...

I think the VW85 out of the gates will be positioned from a pricing standpoint right where the JVC 950 is price positioned. The JVC 750 will be price/positioned just south of the VW85. Now all we have to do is get all three of them calibrated and in a good demo room with the same screen for a face off. I can not wait!
Street prices will be closer to 990/35, because Sony took care that dealers can't sell VW85 for less. (Isn't Sony evil: first their lame CMS then this :))

One must remember JVC street prices.The 990\RS35 will not be very much more expensive than the RS25. Nothing like $2K more.

Street prices will be closer to 990/35, because Sony took care that dealers can't sell VW85 for less. (Isn't Sony evil: first their lame CMS then this :))

well in the uk you can order the VW85 at the price of the HD750, so no not at HD990 levels.

well in the uk you can order the VW85 at the price of the HD750, so no not at HD990 levels.
Is that because the VW85 is cheaper, or is that because the HD750 is costier?

Sounds like the street price for JVC in the UK is not very good or you are getting Sony product for less than I can get it for from the Sony Employee store

Sony prices are quite acceptable in Europe compared to USA. With most other manufacturers, European consumers have to pay much more of penalty for not being USA citizens. Here are some prices from a quick online price search here in Germany:

Sony VW80: 4839 Euros
Sony HW10: 1725 Euros
Panasonic AE3000: 2319 Euros
Epson TW5000: 2900 Euros
JVC HD350: 3926 Euros
JVC HD750: 5549 Euros

Quick look around on uk pricing i have the

HD950@ £5795 (best price online)
VW85 £4495 (best price online)

Some places are doing a quick sale on the HD750 at £3495 but others are sticking with the retail of £4495.

When did/does the USA pricing get officially released?

When did/does the USA pricing get officially released?Prices were released as part of the CEDIA press release also see http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=8198552921644515290&N=4294966122

Already accepting pre-orders with expected release on Oct 22
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665968176

Thanks Guys - Guess I should open my eyes a bit - huh? :)

Rob McDonough is not a salesman. He is usually at the shows to provide technical information about new introductions.

Rob is a great Sony Contact. Rob has provided very helpful support on all of my Sony projectors, starting with the LCD 720P VPL-50/51.

His primary function has been support of Home Theater installers and I have always found him ready to lend support, especially when it comes to calibration or working through a technical issue on a Sony projector.

I recall him saying last year how the HW10 was just a little too good at it's price point. I am still amazed to see Sony push the envelope even more, especially in this business climate.

Bravo Sony.

This PJ is still too dim imo, I'd like to see an LcOS/SXRD/DILA Pj with 1500 calibrated lumens to get excited but none have stepped up to the plate this year too bad.

The new Infocus 8602 and the new Optoma look promising though.

JVC and Sony "stepped up" a long time ago, JVC's newest one the 3500 lumens DLA-RS4000: http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2009/cedia/dlars4000.html

Sony's 1 of many projectors over "1500 lumens", try 11,000 lumens:

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product-SRXT110/

<sound of crickets....>



So has anyone placed an order for one? Availability still looks very constrained...

<sound of crickets....>



So has anyone placed an order for one? Availability still looks very constrained...

I will most likely do so this week via my contact at Sony Pro Div.

<sound of crickets....>



So has anyone placed an order for one? Availability still looks very constrained...

Last I heard - preorders only... Availability in about 1 month....

Price range? As I want to significantly upgrade.... Using a VPL-VW50 with a Dalite Screen with great results. Tempted on the new VPL-VW15 as the price is right, but the 85 is suppose to be pretty darn good from what I have heard at CEDIA.

I am hoping for late next week or early the following week. Review coming... :)

If it is locked at MSRP, then I will most definitely cross it off of my list. Is this "sure" pricing something new?

I highly doubt with this economy there going to lock in pricing. They will not sell a lot of them then, there are plenty of other options for less money as I am sure JVC will be aggressive at discounting. I never go off of MSRP, ever! For instance you go to Sony Style and they have there new SACD/CD Player XA-5400ES for $1500 bucks, well I know several dealers that can get them for $1100/1000.... So I doubt it will be locked. Screw sure pricing. ;)

joerod: You have good tastes on all fronts, cool looking theater and of course Projector and lets not forget Supernatural... Great show...

Thanks Garman! :)

Thanks Garman! :)

When you test the 85 let me know, as I am looking to get one of these or maybe even the HW15. I heard they didn't have this at CEDIA this year because it is very good at its price point. I just hope the street price on the 85 isn't too flipping high.

http://www.dreamhardware.com/store/product/index.php?product_id=1476435 I don't know if this place is legit. I hope these prices go down from here

When you test the 85 let me know, as I am looking to get one of these or maybe even the HW15. I heard they didn't have this at CEDIA this year because it is very good at its price point. I just hope the street price on the 85 isn't too flipping high.

Pretty sure we can find "legit" places with decent pricing... ;)