Hi guys,

I bought a Pioneer 5050 in 2005 with an extended warranty which expired in June 2009. I started having problems with the TV at the end of June. The TV started randomly turning off. I usually have to wait a few seconds to restart the TV.
Also, now, at times, I get Red/Green flashing Rectangles; this lasts for about 15 seconds then the TV turns off. I have to unplug and replug to get it to work. :mad:
I talked to pioneer customer support -- they are useless. Regardless, I'm having an authorized Pioneer repair shop pick up the TV tomorrow. The cost for pick up/diagnosis is $75. They will then give me a quote for repair and we'll go from there. Have any of you heard about these issues?

I fear I may need to replace the TV and so have begun a search. I was set on replacing my Pioneer with Panasonic V10 either the 58 or 65 inch coming out soon.

I spoke to the person who calibrated my TV back in 2006. He recommended a Pioneer 500M (Never even heard of it until he mentioned it). He told me his next preference for calibration is the Samsung then the Panasonic.

So I've opened up the search...Pioneer 600 M vs. Panny V10 58/65 or the Samsung PN58B850:confused:.

I want to get the 600 M. I believe one can get it for less than $3K at an authorized dealer. BTW, Is Monitor Outlet an authorized dealer and a forum Sponsor?

I hesitate to pull the trigger because, as we all know, Pioneer is no longer making this product. How long will they support it? Is the warranty worth anything? Is it worth buying the extended warranty? (Not in my example). I feel we are taking a big risk ($3K) drinking the Pioneer Kool-Aid. Don't get me wrong, I love my Pioneer and would not even discuss this topic today if my plasma was still working. I guess I need reassurance from my fellow Pioneer enthusiasts especially after reading this from a local high end home theater sales rep from whom I purchased my Paradigms:

"The defect you are describing has happened before in the Pioneer Elite as well. In some it was terminal and would require replacing the panel. In some it was a circuit board which was expensive to say the least.Let me know what they say as it may be two problems, power supply and circuit board.
In any event I would not buy another Pioneer knowing they are out of that business. parts and service will fall here very quickly. If you have not heard, pioneer is no longer making any video display products and have exited the industry. No plasma, no projectors and no lcd of any kind.
I believe the warranty requirements are only 5 years in fl. It varies with each state. There are large loopholes in that law. I went through that with 2 class action suits with Pioneer. Try to get a part on a there pro series that ended in 2003.
The new consumer reports is showing the Samsung as the better product for the third time. All I am saying is there is new plasmas out there with now better technologies. The new energy efficient plasma are now available. They will last longer."

To the current or future Kuro owners: Are you not worried about the reliability/warranty?

So if not Pioneer, which panel? Definitely not going with Consumer Reports' that's for sure.

Thanks for your time,

AH

I want to get the 600 M. I believe one can get it for less than $3K at an authorized dealer. BTW, Is Monitor Outlet an authorized dealer and a forum Sponsor?

I hesitate to pull the trigger because, as we all know, Pioneer is no longer making this product. How long will they support it? Is the warranty worth anything? Is it worth buying the extended warranty? (Not in my example). I feel we are taking a big risk ($3K) drinking the Pioneer Kool-Aid.

Forum Sponsors (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/advertisers.php). Note that it is difficult to actually determine if a vendor is authorized by Pioneer. Some people have reported success by calling Pioneer USA. There also a thread with a larger list of dealers than is currently posted on the Pioneer web site. The official list is widely believed to vary randomly for no apparent reason. Whether or not they can deny warranty support based on vendor depends on state law. This matters a bit because should you choose to buy a third-party warranty they will probably "require" a valid manufacturer warranty to extend (infant mortality).

Pioneer has made some level of committment to spare parts. Since it seems laws governing this are stricter in the EU they may get more parts. Although there is some model specificity the most expensive bit in a KRP (the panel) is common world-wide.

I try not to editorialize in the KRP FAQ but I am of the opionion that a purchase from a reputable dealer is safe.

I am not really concerned (knock wood). I have a 141. Parts should be available for at least another 5 to 7 years. If my panel should fail at that time, I would probably want to get a new panel as I am sure the quality of the 141 will be surpassed by then with an even larger size being much more affordable. Your set is over 4 years old. If you can get it repaired for under $400.00, do so. However, I am sure you will find that the new displays by Samsung are better than you old panel. The 500M is much better still. It will probably make more sense for you to just replace it.

The 600M should definitely be your top pick, as long as you are aware of the caveats that go with it. There has been a lot of chatter about Monitor Outlet on the M series thread, so try to do some reading there.

But I think you'd be extremely happy with any of the plasmas that you are looking at.

I purchased the 500M knowing Pioneer had exited the industry. I don't regret it one bit. It could die tomorrow or in 5 years, who knows. The warranty is only 1 year and I don't think buying extended warranty is worth it for televisions. Save the money you'd spend on warranty for your next purchase.

Thanks to those that took the time to respond. A lot of times we look at these TV sets as an investment -- but I need to get rid of my emotional attachment and look at the TV for what it is: a commodity or perishable item.
Spending $5K, 4 years ago makes it hard to let go.
I'm wondering if its worth sending it to the repair shop at all at this point.

I purchased the 500M knowing Pioneer had exited the industry. I don't regret it one bit. It could die tomorrow or in 5 years, who knows. The warranty is only 1 year and I don't think buying extended warranty is worth it for televisions. Save the money you'd spend on warranty for your next purchase.One good argument for an EW on the 500M is that it would enable you to have the TV repaired during the next four years should it fail and you'd be able to keep that Kuro goodness, instead of discarding it because it's too expensive to repair out of pocket.

Even though Pioneer has sold it's Plasma Display Patents to the Panasonic Corporation, i don't think Panasonic will ever come up with a display as good as the KRP500M so i'd rather keep the 500M running instead of chucking it and buying a 2011-2013 Panasonic. To me, that would be worth the $130 cost of a Mack EW.

If Panasonic bought the patents, why wouldn't next year's Panny lineup be 500m clones or better?

well you need to decide whether you want to repair or upgrade. if you never thought about upgrading until you started having problems with your current set, then the best option is probably to get your set repaired, unless of course it would be beneficial money wise to go ahead and uprage depending on the repair cost. I have a 600m that ive owned for a few months now. its patched and it looks astounding with the isf modes. pure is no slouch either. im pretty sure if you had to upgrade the 600m is your best option out there.

One good argument for an EW on the 500M is that it would enable you to have the TV repaired during the next four years should it fail and you'd be able to keep that Kuro goodness, instead of discarding it because it's too expensive to repair out of pocket.


If you are really worried, 9G Pioneers have been available with cracked screens for pennies on the dollar. If you have the storage space, why not buy your own parts Kuro? I'd still get the EW. In that case, the only thing that can go bad is the panel. Once you get a year or two on it, the panel is not going to go bad on its own. It takes kids to kill a panel then!

Currently, ebay is a good source for these 'new' parts Kuros. Individual parts are also easily found at this time there. When the cost of a stand for a 600M or 141FD is about the cost of a new cracked 151 with stand (and you get the speakers and mounting brackets!), you get many of the same interchangable internal parts for nearly free, or at most, the cost of the shipping.

Just do not look at the ads and think you can buy a broken 151 and fix it cheaply. The panel costs over $4K from Pioneer and they won't sell it to just anyone. Your better off to buy new and keep a cracked one around for future parts needs.

Quick update.
The Pioneer Authorized TV repairman came to my house on the 17th to pick up my plasma. Well after a few minutes, he thought the problem was with the media receiver so he took it. $75 for pick up and diagnosis. I call him Thursday for an update and he tells me that he's waiting to hear back from Pioneer regarding a part. I call him Friday: he tells me Pioneer in California wants them to send the receiver to them?! However the repairman is trying to get Pioneer to send the part to save me money.
Today, I call and get a different story. The repairman states he'll be by the house Thursday and hook up a working receiver to see if the problem is: the panel, the receiver or the cord. (I'm thinking why didn't he do this last week!).
10 days without a TV. Wow. Honestly, its not bad during the week...but the weekends.....

Really thinking about replacing it at this point and even if it can be fixed, using it as a spare.

So...now I have to decide..

Really thinking about the 600M, 151, Panny 58 V10, Sammy 860 (58inch). The more I read the more confused I get.

My heart says 600M, but my brain says Panny or Sammy.

Sent Roman a PM but have not heard back. Sent Buy Best Plasma and e-mail..have not heard back.

Sent Cleveland Plasma a PM but have not heard back.

Anybody use AV in demand?

Quick update.
The Pioneer Authorized TV repairman came to my house on the 17th to pick up my plasma. Well after a few minutes, he thought the problem was with the media receiver so he took it. $75 for pick up and diagnosis. I call him Thursday for an update and he tells me that he's waiting to hear back from Pioneer regarding a part. I call him Friday: he tells me Pioneer in California wants them to send the receiver to them?! However the repairman is trying to get Pioneer to send the part to save me money.
Today, I call and get a different story. The repairman states he'll be by the house Thursday and hook up a working receiver to see if the problem is: the panel, the receiver or the cord. (I'm thinking why didn't he do this last week!).
10 days without a TV. Wow. Honestly, its not bad during the week...but the weekends.....

Really thinking about replacing it at this point and even if it can be fixed, using it as a spare.

So...now I have to decide..

Really thinking about the 600M, 151, Panny 58 V10, Sammy 860 (58inch). The more I read the more confused I get.

My heart says 600M, but my brain says Panny or Sammy.

Sent Roman a PM but have not heard back. Sent Buy Best Plasma and e-mail..have not heard back.

Sent Cleveland Plasma a PM but have not heard back.

Anybody use AV in demand?
Yikes, this is why repairing electronics has become an almost extinct animal.

As for PIONEER reputability. Rest easy.. Pioneer will continue to manufacture parts for their displays for 7 years. They will honor their warranty without question. So don't fear that because they are exiting the PLASMA business that you are at a loss.

The repairman states he'll be by the house Thursday and hook up a working receiver to see if the problem is: the panel, the receiver or the cord.

If the panel is working and the MR is faulty, try connecting a DVD or BD player directly to the DVI port using a HDMI-DVI cable (or HDMI-adaptor-DVI): it should work. I've replaced the MR (which is working still) for my seven-year old 3G Pioneer with the DVDO Edge, even though the DVI port is non-HDCP compliant but it surely works!:)

My heart says 600M, but my brain says Panny or Sammy.



You mean your wallet, right?

Because if it's about picking the best product, the choice is clear. Aside from the panel buzz, the Pio has no defects in my eye and the picture is just flawless. Panasonic & Samsung have their issues... I loved my Panasonic but the KRP raised the bar significantly for me.

You mean your wallet, right?

Nope, I mean my brain.
I know the Pioneer is going to give me the best picture.
I love the picture on my current callibrated panel.
I worry about the reliability.
I spent $5K in 2005 hoping the TV will last me at least 7-10 years.
Here we are, 4 years later. Another $3K...
That's a lot of money.
I have no idea how people on this forum have 3 Pioneer panels!

Nope, I mean my brain.
I know the Pioneer is going to give me the best picture.
I love the picture on my current callibrated panel.
I worry about the reliability.
I spent $5K in 2005 hoping the TV will last me at least 7-10 years.
Here we are, 4 years later. Another $3K...
That's a lot of money.
I have no idea how people on this forum have 3 Pioneer panels!

Well, think about it like this...other manufacturers will come along that make products that equal the 600M, but most likely they will be charging quite a bit more than what you could snag one for now.

Also...Your only other comparable alternative in this size/price range is the 58V10, I believe. If you need a TV now, you might as well purchase the best you can get, especially if you're planning on keeping it for a while.

I personally wouldn't spend $3k on a TV, no matter how good it is. I would rather spend $1,500 now and use the other $1,500 get a new TV in 5 years that will almost certainly be far superior to anything available today.

I don't get why people think Pioneer is that great. I admit a few years ago they were in a class by themselves, but the new Panasonic and Samsung models have significantly closed the gap. It's not worth the extra cost or potential issues. No one can say for certain if and how pioneers will be fixed in the future.

I'm not a big fan of buying extended warranties. Even when something breaks, there's no guarantee it will be fixed properly or in a timely manner and it's usually a big hassle. I decided a decade ago to pass on them and I've never regretted it. Better to save the money for buying a replacement. At least that puts you in control.

I personally wouldn't spend $3k on a TV, no matter how good it is. I would rather spend $1,500 now and use the other $1,500 get a new TV in 5 years that will almost certainly be far superior to anything available today.

It's not worth the extra cost or potential issues. No one can say for certain if and how pioneers will be fixed in the future.

I'm not a big fan of buying extended warranties. Even when something breaks, there's no guarantee it will be fixed properly or in a timely manner and it's usually a big hassle. I decided a decade ago to pass on them and I've never regretted it. Better to save the money for buying a replacement. At least that puts you in control.

This is exactly what my brain says.
BUT, there's something about the Pioneer picture...and that's where the heart comes in. Its like driving a BMW. Yeah, their overpriced, unreliable, but man they really are the Ultimate Driving machine!

Maybe I need to see a calibrated Panasonic or Samsung...:confused:

BTW...thanks to all for responding to this thread.

This is exactly what my brain says.
BUT, there's something about the Pioneer picture...and that's where the heart comes in. Its like driving a BMW. Yeah, their overpriced, unreliable

Well let's fix the current premise. You shouldn't be spending three k. It should be substantially less. The BMW comparison is flawed because the KRP is neither overpriced nor unreliable. Multiple people with a broad range of experience continue to say the Kuro remains the best consumer display* (http://hdtvbychadb.com/reviews.htm) for serious viewing.

*A single, but interesting, data point

I personally wouldn't spend $3k on a TV, no matter how good it is. I would rather spend $1,500 now and use the other $1,500 get a new TV in 5 years that will almost certainly be far superior to anything available today.

I spent 3 grand on my Panasonic PV500 when it came out in 2005 and I loved it... yes, was a lot of money but it was worth it.

Then a couple of weeks ago I thought, I should get a larger screen and I had exactly the same idea like you: spend like 1500 bucks and get a decent TV with a great bang for the buck. No need to get fancy... or so I thought.

The problem is that when I looked at the panels that are in that price range, I was seriously disappointed by the progress Panasonic had made in 4 generations. So, I figured: is it really worth getting a new TV that still doesn't have great blacks etc?

When I saw the KRP, I knew that there will always be a premium product at a premium price. Yes, maybe KRP quality will be available for 1500 in a couple of years but then there'll always be something better. So it was KRP or stick with the old one because spending 1500 for a TV that isn't really conving seems pointless to me...

Looking at the quality of my "old" Panasonic and the newer cheaper ones, there's certainly a tradeoff in terms of quality of manufacturing. I mean, sure the PQ is better one the cheaper new panels, but especially the Pannys look very cheapish compared to a Pioneer or older Panny models. So like I said, there will always be premium... at least in some years to come. Maybe in 10 years, TVs will be so crazy cheap that there isn't any difference between models/manufacturers...

You mean your wallet, right?

Because if it's about picking the best product, the choice is clear. Aside from the panel buzz, the Pio has no defects in my eye and the picture is just flawless. Panasonic & Samsung have their issues... I loved my Panasonic but the KRP raised the bar significantly for me.

I'm not so sure I would say the KRP is flawless. Perhaps mine will get better as the phosphors wear in, but the screen still glows a bit on a totally black screen in a dark room. The screen is not uniform either, and looks a bit cloudy, with patches that are lighter than others, but this is only noticeable on an all-black screen in the dark. However, I am told that this is supposed to smooth out as the panel accumulates hundreds of hours. When watching in darkness, when a bright object just appeared and then the screen quickly goes all black, you can still see a slight after-glow for a fraction of a second, and it does distract from the beautiful effect of fading to a deep black screen. Once again, perhaps this will attenuate as the panel ages, so I am not stressing it.

The AR filter does an excellent job cutting the reflections (better than the Samsungs, which are like a mirror), but it definitely could be darker. The "Ultra High Contrast Deep-Black Stripe Filter" on my Hitachi Director's Series was darker, and the filter on the 8 series Samsung plazzys are darker as well, so they hold their blacks even better than the Kuros in very bright lighting.

I saw some mild phosphor trails last night, notably on the Pioneer demo "Sync of Beauty," which can be found here:
http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/high-definition-trailers.php

The scaling is ok, but I think the de-interlacing of the 480i coming out of the cable company's SD DVR leaves something to be desired. I bet if I fed the output from my cable box to the DVDO Edge, which is noted for its superb de-interlacing, I would get a lot less wavy white lines and jaggies. From memory, I think the 480i de-interlacing on my Hitachi was better.

So I wouldn't get carried away and call these Kuros flawless. They may be the best, but there is certainly room for improvement. I would give them an 8.5-9.0. If they were perfect then there would have been no need for a 10G Kuro, and OLED or some future technology would have to rate better than a 10...like an 11.

I did notice some major false contouring on an underwater scene in Planet Earth episode 11, Ocean Deep, around 34:40-35:00, but it's likely source-related, and not the Pioneer's fault.

As for PIONEER reputability. Rest easy.. Pioneer will continue to manufacture parts for their displays for 7 years. They will honor their warranty without question. So don't fear that because they are exiting the PLASMA business that you are at a loss.

I'm sorry but I do not agree. I expect them to honor the 2yr warranty on the Elites but after that it is a crapshoot. Pioneer is closing all manufacturing that is panel related. What they do plan is based on statistics they will manufacture parts now for future use. Right now if you have a less than 7 year old Elite rear projection remanufactured parts are what you can exchange for.

Also you are assuming that Pioneer will be in business in seven years - we shall see.

I don't get why people think Pioneer is that great. I admit a few years ago they were in a class by themselves, but the new Panasonic and Samsung models have significantly closed the gap. It's not worth the extra cost or potential issues. No one can say for certain if and how pioneers will be fixed in the future.

There is more under the hood than meets the eye. ;)

I'm sorry but I do not agree. I expect them to honor the 2yr warranty on the Elites but after that it is a crapshoot. Pioneer is closing all manufacturing that is panel related. What they do plan is based on statistics they will manufacture parts now for future use. Right now if you have a less than 7 year old Elite rear projection remanufactured parts are what you can exchange for.

Also you are assuming that Pioneer will be in business in seven years - we shall see.

I think this is a great point. We are not protected by a law here. Pioneer can tell us one thing and do another.

Toshiba told us they will never make a Blu Ray player...

I agree that Pioneer gives you the best picture in the business. But they do not make bullet proof TVs. So lets say Documaker's panel never evens out. Or you buy the Panel and 9 months later you have dead pixels or some other issue. The panel needs replacing and the worst case scenario has occurred...Pioneer can't fix it. You need a replacement...but they don't have an equivalent next generation panel. What do you do?

However, I am told that this is supposed to smooth out as the panel accumulates hundreds of hours.

It should. My 111 had the blob factor and the other night I finally checked it out and the screen is uniform now. Not a hint of blobbiness. Still that damn glow exists, though. ;)

Yikes, this is why repairing electronics has become an almost extinct animal.
sent u a pm.
alan

I'm not so sure I would say the KRP is flawless. Perhaps mine will get better as the phosphors wear in, but the screen still glows a bit on a totally black screen in a dark room. The screen is not uniform either, and looks a bit cloudy, with patches that are lighter than others, but this is only noticeable on an all-black screen in the dark. However, I am told that this is supposed to smooth out as the panel accumulates hundreds of hours.

Yeah, you're right it's still not perfect...

I noticed the glowing patches too after I've been watching and the screen goes totally black... I guess it's just the phosphor glowing. Never had it on the Panny, I hope this effect has something to do with the "new" Phosphor so it will go away with time?

Yeah, you're right it's still not perfect...

I noticed the glowing patches too after I've been watching and the screen goes totally black... I guess it's just the phosphor glowing. Never had it on the Panny, I hope this effect has something to do with the "new" Phosphor so it will go away with time?

I had that on my first 111. I noticed it more along the edges of the panel. Seemed to get better but I returned the panel for other reasons.

So lets say Documaker's panel never evens out.

After running it about 30 hours or so, and checking a 0 IRE late at night in the dark, it looks like it's already getting a bit better. Still has a ways to go, but unless I am imagining things, the uniformity on an all-black screen in the dark is improving--which is what people said would happen.

I still see plenty of phosphor trails though. I really do hope that improves over time as well.

Just got my 5020FD. All I can say is WOW. What a difference vs my old Sammy DLP. I can't wait to have it calibrated in a few weeks after the 150 hour burn in. It will be even more spectacular. Plus it has no buzz. In a totally quiet room, I could not hear it.

Quick update.
The Pioneer Authorized TV repairman came to my house on the 17th to pick up my plasma. Well after a few minutes, he thought the problem was with the media receiver so he took it. $75 for pick up and diagnosis. I call him Thursday for an update and he tells me that he's waiting to hear back from Pioneer regarding a part. I call him Friday: he tells me Pioneer in California wants them to send the receiver to them?! However the repairman is trying to get Pioneer to send the part to save me money.
Today, I call and get a different story. The repairman states he'll be by the house Thursday and hook up a working receiver to see if the problem is: the panel, the receiver or the cord. (I'm thinking why didn't he do this last week!).


Last update:
The repairman left an Elite Media Center with me for the weekend. Worked like a charm. The panel did not turn off. No red/green rectangles. No problem.
Called them today, and told them the problem has to be in the Media center. Apparently, they are unable to fix it. Pioneer has requested the Media Center to be shipped to California. Keep in mind there's no warranty.
The repair estimate.....please sit down.....$960!

So, I'm gonna get my old Media center back...and replace the TV...
What do I do with this panel?
Can I buy a used Media Center?

Thanks guys

Last update:
The repairman left an Elite Media Center with me for the weekend. Worked like a charm. The panel did not turn off. No red/green rectangles. No problem.
Called them today, and told them the problem has to be in the Media center. Apparently, they are unable to fix it. Pioneer has requested the Media Center to be shipped to California. Keep in mind there's no warranty.
The repair estimate.....please sit down.....$960!

So, I'm gonna get my old Media center back...and replace the TV...
What do I do with this panel?
Can I buy a used Media Center?

Thanks guys

Put a "favorite search" on Ebay. Not a very common item, but maybe someone will list a media center if their similar Pioneer screen is bad or broken. You might want to try someone else to repair your media center. Not all service techs are created equal.