I am returning the optoma HD20 and the sales people at Projector People told me that Panasonic was not coming out with a new model to replace the ae3000. Anyone know if this is true? They seemed pretty confident that it was true and I would be surprised if they were lying or clueless about this fact.

Ttt

I would not be surprising, with sales down across the board and the AE3000 being a solid performer, they could skip the update cycle this year.

I have no information on this, but I doubt that Panasonic is sitting idle. Either they leave the market, or they bring an AE3000 replacement. That's my point of view. Because the competition is simply not sitting still. E.g. compare the AE3000 to the current Epson. The native contrast ratio of the Epson is so much higher that Panasonic simply cannot afford to skip a year. IMHO...

I havent got the scoop yet one way or another, but from the emails I have been getting from my contacts at Panasonic Japan, something seems to be coming down the pike. When i asked them about the replacement, they didnt tell me nothing was coming out and told me I should be hearing from them soon. I always see their new projectors before it come out

The rumor is it may show up at IFA, next month.

A dealer told me that production has stoped for the 3000 so that they can start on the next model. No specs were given.

I posted this in another thread but I will post it here too. Dealers are trying to take a cheap shot at consumers by raising the price because quantities are low and they are acting like they dont know that replacements are about to be released. One online store (^) told a friend that there are limited quanties of the AE-3000 and there are no anouncements for a replacement so they were forced to raise prices. B.S. they are just trying to scare people into buying now at an inflated price. I purchased my AE-2000 at just under $3,000 when it was first released. A friend purchased an AE-3000 at just under $2,500 shipping included when it was first released. And now dealers want to sell a discontinued projector for more than when it was a new release? Will the next projector street for $2,000? Why not they just released (2) 1080P projectors for under $1,000. IMHO if you buy now you will regret it.

i think i am with Mark on this one. the ae3000 price just went back up to $2700.

when i bought my panny bd35, bout 6 months ago. retail was a LOT higher then when they first came out. then they stopped selling em. i bought mine like new used. for about what they were new

A dealer told me that production has stoped for the 3000 so that they can start on the next model. No specs were given.

Panasonic has spent so little in R&D the past few years its definitely worth it for them to "update" annually (same case, same lamp, same light engine) with a minor tweak that they call an update. Maybe they'll change the case to white this year and ditch the smoothscreen...oh well, one may dream!

Speculation: Panasonic can't afford to hold off on a new model (a tweaked version of the AE3000, if nothing else). At least one competitor is coming out with a new model that has incremental improvements - higher lumens, better black levels, and a larger (advertised) contrast ratio.

IMHO Epson won't be standing still either.

I am sure Epson wont be standing still but the Epson came out several months after the Panasonic so it would seem that the Panny would release their new projector before Epson does

Expect 1920 by 1200 panels in the upcoming LCD's.

Maybe they'll change the case to white this year ...oh well, one may dream!

I would call that a nightmare.

I would call that a nightmare.

I'm not sure white would be so bad if it were a nice gloss white. Even a gloss black would help lessen the industrial look of the AE3000. (which BTW I don't mind as much as some folks do)

I would be happy just to see Panasonic change their ridiculous price-gouging practices in the Canadian market.

I'm not sure white would be so bad if it were a nice gloss white.

Anyone who has painted their ceiling a somewhat dark color or black would disagree. My wife has been after me to spray paint my beige Optoma.

Agreed, the black finish on the 3000u was one of the selling points for me. It’s big enough as it is without being a mass of stark white against a black ceiling.

Further, the rather boxy shape of it fits well up on my ceiling.

-Suntan

I posted this in another thread but I will post it here too. Dealers are trying to take a cheap shot at consumers by raising the price because quantities are low and they are acting like they dont know that replacements are about to be released. One online store (^) told a friend that there are limited quanties of the AE-3000 and there are no anouncements for a replacement so they were forced to raise prices. B.S. they are just trying to scare people into buying now at an inflated price. I purchased my AE-2000 at just under $3,000 when it was first released. A friend purchased an AE-3000 at just under $2,500 shipping included when it was first released. And now dealers want to sell a discontinued projector for more than when it was a new release? Will the next projector street for $2,000? Why not they just released (2) 1080P projectors for under $1,000. IMHO if you buy now you will regret it.

That's nuts. We always lower stuff as it is being phased out for the simple reason that people won't pay more for it than just a little while ago, especially when it is discontinued. They are being bully's.

" That's nuts. We always lower stuff as it is being phased out for the simple reason that people won't pay more for it than just a little while ago, especially when it is discontinued. They are being bully's."

I respect that Jason, you have my next purchase.

Much appreciated! :)

That's nuts. We always lower stuff as it is being phased out for the simple reason that people won't pay more for it than just a little while ago, especially when it is discontinued. They are being bully's.

It would appear they are taking their pricing policy for Canadians to the U.S. market now :(. Very sad.

Rumor is true. Check out link from the Panny owners thread

www.cinetson.org/phpBB3/projecteurs-f2/nouveau-panasonic-ae4000-t30532.html

Looks like AE-4000 is on the way.

I just asked a dealer about the ae3000 (happened to be in Quebec, Canada) and they are currently asking pretty much list price but are throwing in a spare bulb. I'll be waiting for the 4000 though! Not in too much of a rush as the drywall is only due to go up in the next week or so....

EDIT : Google translation of lorjam's Link (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cinetson.org%2FphpBB3%2Fprojecteurs-f2%2Fnouveau-panasonic-ae4000-t30532.html&sl=fr&tl=en&history_state0=fr|en|)

Yes I would be surprised if they dont come out with the ae4000. If it gets good reviews and improved blacks and brightness close to the 6500ub Im going to upgrade from the ae2000. I guess we will know for sure in early september at the Cedia show?

"EDIT : Google translation of lorjam's Link"

Most annoying website ever - the content keeps disappearing, when you get near an ad I guess

"EDIT : Google translation of lorjam's Link"

Most annoying website ever - the content keeps disappearing, when you get near an ad I guess

It doesn't happen in original web site. Google translate messes it up.

I would suspect if they do have a new model it will be leaked in the next week or so...usually stuff is announced 1-2 weeks before the show.

I would suspect if they do have a new model it will be leaked in the next week or so...usually stuff is announced 1-2 weeks before the show.

Jason, are you trying to tell us something here? ;)

It would appear they are taking their pricing policy for Canadians to the U.S. market now :(. Very sad.

I just purchased a 6500UB for this very reason. It is literally $1000 (!!!) less expensive than the Panasonic up here right now. All things being equal, or even $2 - 300 more, I would have bought the AE3000.

Waiting for the new models is probably a good idea for most, I just couldn't pass up that big rebate.

Jason, are you trying to tell us something here? ;)

I know about everything coming out at the show (and played with several of them already...benefits of working for AVS). But, the Panny I will be as surprised as anyone.

The AX200 is still the current model Also Panasonic does not need to replace there model there awesome to start with:)

So Panasonic is not coming out with a new 1080p model and on top of that they raise the price of the soon to be outdated ae3000...Looks like Ill be purchasing an epson or some other newer model...ridiculous!!!:mad:

The AX200 is still the current model Also Panasonic does not need to replace there model there awesome to start with:)

No I dont agree with you.....Technology must advance and improve at a cheaper cost...I have the ax200 and yes they could improve it...deeper blacks, inorganic panels..etc etc.

"So Panasonic is not coming out with a new 1080p model and on top of that they raise the price of the soon to be outdated ae3000...Looks like Ill be purchasing an epson or some other newer model...ridiculous!!!"

The PT-AE4000 should be anounced soon.

Is the AE3K sales that bad and/or Panny forecast 2010 sales that weak? As far as I can remember, it has been traditional year after year since AE500, my first PJ, Panny will introduce a new PJ during the upcoming shows. I think it does not make much business sense that Panny won't come out one this year.

As far as I can remember, it has been traditional year after year since AE500, my first PJ, Panny will introduce a new PJ during the upcoming shows.My memory is the same. That they haven't missed a year since the AE500:

AE500 -> AE700 -> AE900 -> AE1000 -> AE2000 -> AE3000

I skipped the AX100 and AX200 as the above are just their top model. And I think it probably goes back to the AE300, so last year made at least 7 CEDIAs in a row with a new model from Panasonic. I don't recall what the timing was before the AE300.

--Darin

I agree...rare for the LCD companies especially not to make a change each year. Panny usually announces several replacements...though only 1 top end unit.

According to this the AE4000 is coming, no details though:
http://blog.kenthomecinema.co.uk/2009/08/panasonic-pt-ae4000-home-cinema-projector/

Another year I hope they delete smoothscreen, or make it an option when purchasing, another year I'm sure I'll be disapointed.

I'm waiting to see what Epson and Sanyo have in store.

Another year I hope they delete smoothscreen, or make it an option when purchasing, another year I'm sure I'll be disapointed.

I'm waiting to see what Epson and Sanyo have in store.

Doubt it would be an option due to cost. But I agree, they need to ditch it. Last Panny I used on a personal side was the AE900 and for that it made a tad more sense being 720p, but even still, I always had the feeling it was out of focus. In my playing with the newer generation of them (1000-3000) I find that same thing.

But I am sure they look at it as a unique feature that no one else has which could be twisted as a selling feature for dealers to touch on.

Doubt it would be an option due to cost. But I agree, they need to ditch it. Last Panny I used on a personal side was the AE900 and for that it made a tad more sense being 720p, but even still, I always had the feeling it was out of focus. In my playing with the newer generation of them (1000-3000) I find that same thing.

But I am sure they look at it as a unique feature that no one else has which could be twisted as a selling feature for dealers to touch on.

I have the ae900, ax200 and ae2000. Panasonic fixed the smoothscreen and it is no longer an issue. I agree the ae900 appeared to always be out of focus especially on videogames but this is not a problem with their newer models at least to my eyes however they really dont need smoothscreen for 1080p.

I have the ae900, ax200 and ae2000. Panasonic fixed the smoothscreen and it is no longer an issue. I agree the ae900 appeared to always be out of focus especially on videogames but this is not a problem with their newer models at least to my eyes however they really dont need smoothscreen for 1080p.

Yes I would agree with you and I dont even mind if they remove smooth screen now we have 1080p. But truthfully all the reviews today on the 3000 say smoothscreen doesn't soften the image.

I hope there are some more models released that have the zoom memory feature.

I'd be nice to have 2 or 3 to choose from if you want to go that route.

Since there is an announcement that Panasonic are releasing a new 3D capable Blu Ray player next year for a new 3D format for the home and have also made a deal with Hollywood studio's for 100 movies in 3D i would hope all future Panasonic 1080p home cinema projectors have 120hz capability.

They have managed to secure a 3D deal for Avatar too so thats big news.

I have the ae900, ax200 and ae2000. Panasonic fixed the smoothscreen and it is no longer an issue. I agree the ae900 appeared to always be out of focus especially on videogames but this is not a problem with their newer models at least to my eyes however they really dont need smoothscreen for 1080p.

As I said, I have seen the AE1000, 2000 and 3000 and the AX100 and AX200. Though Smoothscreen has been improved, I still think it is not needed. My 2 cents.

I would be surprised if the AE4000 wasn't announced before year end. I have no hard facts to base this on but judging from the success of most other Pany projectors, why would they stop upgrading?

Let us not forget that Panasonic purchased the Kuro processing technology from Pioneer and that may be implemented in a new model.

Let us not forget that Panasonic purchased the Kuro processing technology from Pioneer and that may be implemented in a new model.

The Kuro technology was only used in plasmas though and I'm not sure if it would be helpful at all to front projection. Their only Kuro projector was just a rebadged JVC RS2.

Perhaps Epson is working on new panel with new resolution.........;)

As I said, I have seen the AE1000, 2000 and 3000 and the AX100 and AX200. Though Smoothscreen has been improved, I still think it is not needed. My 2 cents.

Jason,

Since you have seen all three how big of an improvement in picture quality is the ae3000 compared to the ae2000. I want to upgrade and was thinking of either the ae3000, 6500 or wait for the newer models coming out.

Would make more sense to wait imo as either you will want the new models or you can get the old models for cheaper than they are now.

Not sure if this has been posted yet:

http://www.kenthomecinema.co.uk/Panasonic-PT-AE4000.htm

Just a listing for the 4000 but no info. If it wasn't being released I don't see why they would put the product up on their site. So I think we can be safe in saying the 4000 is definitely coming out.

Not sure if this has been posted yet:

http://www.kenthomecinema.co.uk/Panasonic-PT-AE4000.htm

Just a listing for the 4000 but no info. If it wasn't being released I don't see why they would put the product up on their site. So I think we can be safe in saying the 4000 is definitely coming out.

Ha, I just dropped back into this thread to post that link too. Of course, it means nothing in reality - the web is so circular that it's possible that they've added the placeholder simply after reading this forum and in the hope of catching pre-orders.

In an exclusive Sony event on HW15 and VW85, Phil Hinton of Avforums UK mentioned that he has seen the AE4000 on wednesday and on first viewing he was impressed. To him it is definitely a step up and more.

In an exclusive Sony event on HW15 and VW85, Phil Hinton of Avforums UK mentioned that he has seen the AE4000 on wednesday and on first viewing he was impressed. To him it is definitely a step up and more.

Nice, thanks for the info. Do you know if they are going to release a preview video like they did exactly a year ago?

Yes, thanks anirbana. Very excited about this - I've already started on the spousal acceptance process. :p

In an exclusive Sony event on HW15 and VW85, Phil Hinton of Avforums UK mentioned that he has seen the AE4000 on wednesday and on first viewing he was impressed. To him it is definitely a step up and more.

How come the UK often sees these things before the USA does?:rolleyes:

Yes, thanks anirbana. Very excited about this - I've already started on the spousal acceptance process. :p

Ha ha! The "Spousal Acceptance Process". The old "SAP"! I totally know where you're coming from brother! :p

Ha ha! The "Spousal Acceptance Process". The old "SAP"! I totally know where you're coming from brother! :p

:D I thought I am the only one here.

Can't wait to get a hold of one but need to eBay the 3K first :p

you guys are sissys. if i want something, and have the cash. i buy it. if the wife objects, i buy 2.

if its YOUR money = MAN UP !

Perhaps Epson is working on new panel with new resolution.........;)

Or a new aspect ratio?

anyone have what may be possible specks?

anyone have what may be possible specks?
I think we have to wait one more day. On September 1 some people who have seen the AE4000 will be free to share.

If you really meant specks, follow these instructions. :p
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16241911#post16241911

you guys are sissys. if i want something, and have the cash. i buy it. if the wife objects, i buy 2.

if its YOUR money = MAN UP !

Just better husbands :) Once you say "I do" it becomes "our" money.....

Just better husbands :) Once you say "I do" it becomes "our" money.....

+1

-Suntan

have to disagree. Many people break up over money issues because it is"our money"

I dont have a clue how much money my wife has in the bank, and she has no clue what I have.

As long as we are responsible for our parts everyone is happy.

I dont have a clue how much money my wife has in the bank, and she has no clue what I have.

As long as we are responsible for our parts everyone is happy.

While this is just fine for your current situation, it doesn't really contribute much to asset management, investing and retirement planning.

At a minimum I hope you both max your contributions to retirement plans at work. In addition it would be good for you both to agree on a fixed percentage of your respective income that goes into a retirement investment portfolio.

Or a new aspect ratio?

Just tea for two
And two for tea........

From avforums.com:

Videos Coming Soon
Exclusive JVC DLA-HD550 and DLA-HD950 Launch
We give you an exclusive video introduction to the new JVC DLA-HD550 and DLA-950 projectors from JVC, as well as information on the high-end HD990.
Click here to subscribe to the mailing list and receive an email notification when this video is published.
Exclusive Panasonic PT-AE4000 Launch
We give you an exclusive video preview of the new PT-AE4000 projector from Panasonic, launched today.
Click here to subscribe to the mailing list and receive an email notification when this video is published.

From avforums.com:

Videos Coming Soon
Where did you get this from? I don't see that when going to avforums.com.

From avforums.com:
Exclusive Panasonic PT-AE4000 Launch
We give you an exclusive video preview of the new PT-AE4000 projector from Panasonic, launched today.
Click here to subscribe to the mailing list and receive an email notification when this video is published.
I also had trouble finding this on avforums. I did find it on a cached page in the Bing search engine:

http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q="pt+ae4000"&d=76646780064302&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=a09564b7,97f4baf4

They might have jumped the gun and pulled it back, I didn't know it was officially launched today? Nothing in the Panasonic press releases. Clicking on the subscribe link doesn't work. Guess I'll have to be patient.

I also had trouble finding this on avforums. I did find it on a cached page in the Bing search engine:

http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q="pt+ae4000"&d=76646780064302&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=a09564b7,97f4baf4

They might have jumped the gun and pulled it back, I didn't know it was officially launched today? Nothing in the Panasonic press releases. Clicking on the subscribe link doesn't work. Guess I'll have to be patient.

Exactly what I did!

I couldn't find it by going to the page but used the cached version and found it.

I thought that on Sept. 1st they could talk about the 4000 and I guess the JVCs as well.

Panny's press conference at IFA, is on Thursday (9-3-09), at 4am-5am ET.

At a minimum I hope you both max your contributions to retirement plans at work. In addition it would be good for you both to agree on a fixed percentage of your respective income that goes into a retirement investment portfolio.

That would be great in a perfect world, but many people fight just to get by month to month without placing 15%+ into retirement. (That, BTW, would have lost a lot of value the past year.)

Can't wait to see the reviews for the new LCDs. I purposely waited to upgrade until after CEDIA this year.

Art

That would be great in a perfect world, but many people fight just to get by month to month without placing 15%+ into retirement. (That, BTW, would have lost a lot of value the past year.)

Can't wait to see the reviews for the new LCDs. I purposely waited to upgrade until after CEDIA this year.

Art

My 401k has lost 40% in the past 2 years and 30% last year before rebounding to only losing 10% this year. Yeah, I agree with you.

Anxiously awaiting this projector news as I am very convinced that the 3000 is the way that I want to go. If it improves on features and stays at this price point, I'll get the 4000 instead.

"We give you an exclusive video introduction to the new JVC DLA-HD550 and DLA-950 projectors from JVC, as well as information on the high-end HD990."

Sounds like maybe they're just going to talk about them, not view/review them.

While this is just fine for your current situation, it doesn't really contribute much to asset management, investing and retirement planning.

At a minimum I hope you both max your contributions to retirement plans at work. In addition it would be good for you both to agree on a fixed percentage of your respective income that goes into a retirement investment portfolio.

My wife and I keep our money separate as well, it works perfectly. We have the bills split down the middle and split our housing cost. As far as retirement, we both work for the local government, we get a pension. On top of that we each have a 457 account, we only put $200 each month into that, but we will have a couple hundred thousand each when we retire, as well as our pension. I also qualify for Social Security, she does not. I think it is better to keep the money separate if both people in the relationship are working. If only one works, then I could see having joint acounts.

Talk about going off topic.......................of course, I guess I'm going off topic by making that observation. Sigh.

Dick Fogg

I could care less about whose $$ goes where! I just want to be feed info on the new AE 4000!!! :D

I would hope they include electronic blanking to deal with overscanning on 2.35:1 screens.
I would also be dissapointed if they didn't include THX mode as they have included that on most of their new plasma and lcd tv's.

I dont have a clue how much money my wife has in the bank, and she has no clue what I have.

As long as we are responsible for our parts everyone is happy.

so you guys got married not having a clue what the other person had? Riggghht!

have to disagree. Many people break up over money issues because it is"our money"

I dont have a clue how much money my wife has in the bank, and she has no clue what I have.

As long as we are responsible for our parts everyone is happy.

Since we are OT waiting on announcements :)

WOW - lets see I access all the bank accounts, my wife doesn't at all. She opens all the mail - I don't read any of it besides pays the bills and well she makes way more than me but it doesn't matter because it gets split over the same accounts etc

Not sure how you do it, but maybe it is simpler or works for you so congrats on finding something that works for you. For us - our family our money - we both spend I say when we can afford things and when we can't. She says when I need to figure out how we can afford things :D

Well it's the first now. Any news on the AE4000 yet.

I'm really really interested to see if Panasonic will incorporate 3D technology into there next Flagship projector.

I give them credit for keeping the new projectors under wraps this long. Usually we have more info on the LCD offerings before the shows.

Here's a list of machines being shown off in Germany in November. I'm sure most will be at Cedia.

Up-to-date the following models are planned: JVC HD550, JVC HD950, Panasonic PTAE4000, Sanyo Z4000, Mitsubishi HC3800, Mitsubishi HC6800, 4 EPSON powerplant of models, SONY HW15,… depending upon availability further models.

Thanks for the list. I wonder if any are going to copy Panny's memory zoom?

Also tomorrow avforums.com is uploading a preview video for the ae4000.

3d capable would be nice

Thanks for the list. I wonder if any are going to copy Panny's memory zoom?

Also tomorrow avforums.com is uploading a preview video for the ae4000.

Hi Mike, does avforums say that somewhere on their site?

Hi Mike, does avforums say that somewhere on their site?

http://www.avforums.com/forums/projectors/1070949-ifa-projector-news-exclusive-projector-videos.html

Info starting to trickle in!!!!!!!!!!!

Interesting quote here that I am more than intrigued by...wonder what they mean??

-"These include the second iteration of Panasonic's Lens Memory technology, which aims to eliminate the Cinemascope issue and offer a true 2.35:1 aspect cinema experience"

http://www.trustedreviews.com/home-cinema/news/2009/09/03/IFA-2009--Panasonic-PT-AE4000-Cinemascope-Projector-Unveiled/p1

-"These include the second iteration of Panasonic's Lens Memory technology, which aims to eliminate the Cinemascope issue and offer a true 2.35:1 aspect cinema experience"


It seems that there are pretty minimal improvements other than whatever is improved on the Cinemascope front...(don't get me wrong, I am putting in a 2.35 screen so I'm hoping for a real cool improvement on this front, but I thought we'd see larger improvements on the other stuff).

http://www.trustedreviews.com/home-cinema/news/2009/09/03/IFA-2009--Panasonic-PT-AE4000-Cinemascope-Projector-Unveiled/p1I thought this was one of the funnier things I've read in a review:
We're not in the habit of handing out full marks and Editor's Choice Awards all that often, but the Panasonic PT-AE3000 we reviewed in February got just that treatment and it now has a successor, the PT-AE4000 - which if we go by the product number alone, should be about 1,000 times better!First time I've seen that 4000 should be 1,000 times better than 3000. :)

I am hoping that in going from 60k:1 to 80k:1 for claimed on/off CR they actually did something significant about usable on/off CR, where they seemed to be about 2k:1 native and 6k:1 dynamic without going into a messed up color mode and only getting the darkest blacks after the images are dark for quite a while with the AE3000. Or in other words, that they basically aren't exaggerating their capability as much as they did last time. They were one to brag about their iris being able to change at 60Hz and then went with a very slow dropping of the black level in getting even close to their high spec number.

--Darin

Darin,

Granted, we know nothing, yet, about actual implementation, but mightn't a "redder" lamp help, after calibration, with the skewed colors in dynamic mode? At the low end? Thusly providing high contrast in an actually usable Dynamic mode?

Darin,

Granted, we know nothing, yet, about actual implementation, but mightn't a "redder" lamp help, after calibration, with the skewed colors in dynamic mode? At the low end? Thusly providing high contrast in an actually usable Dynamic mode?

A few were once testing RED filters in Dynamic mode on the PT-AE3000

Granted, we know nothing, yet, about actual implementation, but mightn't a "redder" lamp help, after calibration, with the skewed colors in dynamic mode? At the low end? Thusly providing high contrast in an actually usable Dynamic mode?Yes, that is a good point. It could also help so that the low end doesn't have a skew toward blue. While blue at the low end doesn't hurt the on/off CR measurements that much it can hurt the visual perception of on/off CR because our eyes tend to see blue well in very dark stuff, but not red. The redder lamp could mean less reason to move the internal filter into place, although on the AE3000 that filter seems to be to move primaries out more than it is to balance the color from the lamp.

As far as the messed up colors in Dynamic mode with the AE3000, it isn't just gray color balance. They seem to have messed up conversion. Like on one test pattern I can see all the above reference white steps (above 235) in gray boxes, but not in red, blue, or green boxes. And even the waveform monitor in the AE3000 will claim that the source for those boxes with the individual primaries doesn't have an steps above 235. But I know they do on the test disc itself and if I switch to a cinema mode the waveform monitor will then correctly show that the single primary boxes do have values above 235. So, hopefully Panasonic addressed that.

They could also give people a mode with a little bit more aggressive iris, but not as extreme as the DI is in their Dynamic picture mode. At the moment I think it is mostly not that aggressive or super aggressive, with nothing in between.

I do think the dynamic iris in the modes other than Dynamic picture mode works well on the AE3000.

--Darin

By "aggressive," regarding the DI, you do mean in terms of max iris closure, not in terms of time? I.e. perhaps you/we would actually prefer having the iris close fully more quickly in truly dark scenes, given your comments about the slow-acting setting Panny used to arrive at their on/off contrast specs (several seconds to close fully)? Or is this, like, a zero-sum game?

By "aggressive," regarding the DI, you do mean in terms of max iris closure, not in terms of time? I.e. perhaps you/we would actually prefer having the iris close fully more quickly in truly dark scenes, given your comments about the slow-acting setting Panny used to arrive at their on/off contrast specs (several seconds to close fully)? Or is this, like, a zero-sum game?I meant it more in terms of how far the iris closes, or the multiplier from native to dynamic on/off CR. I wouldn't want them to go to a 20x multiplier by going faster than they do in Dynamic mode. More like if native is 2k:1 and you can get 3x that in Cinema mode or 20x that in Dynamic mode, maybe have one setting that is 5x-7x from native on/off CR. I didn't really think about too many specifics of what they would need to do to keep the artifacts down with a little bit higher multiplier and I'm not sure I would use a more aggressive mode, it might just be nice to have some middle ground.

Also, I use my AE3000 on a 15'+ wide outdoor screen and it might be nice to have an option in the Dynamic picture mode to enable the DI, but not have the huge multiplier. More like 3x to 5x or so. I realize the Dynamic mode has bad color balance on the AE3000, but for the big screen outdoors I think it is the best trade-off.

--Darin

Darin,

I didn't realize the "multiplier" would be so simple as to be that fixed...I just assumed (when I thought about it, which hasn't been much) that the algorithm was highly complicated, and the "multiplier" itself constantly varied on a curve depending on a lot of other variables (just guessing), like total light per frame, preceding and following frames, the gamma curve, etc. And, come to think of it, maybe it does...still, if it's a linear curve given these relationships, should be easy enough to change. Or to make user-adjustable.

Related question: how is it Epson, using nominally the same chips, can get noticeably better black levels than Panasonic? Are the chips themselves somehow optimized, or selected as "cream of the crop" from the batches (given that Epson actually makes 'em), is it a better/more sophisticated iris? More aggressive algorithm? They're claiming like 120,000:1 max contrast on the new 8500...

I know, I know, take the specs with a grain of salt. But given their PJs' past performance relative to each matching generation of Panasonics'--and the assumption that Panny would max-inflate contrast numbers for marketing purposes (plus Epson's historically more conservative, real-world figures, at least in years past), I'd think the numbers would be closer, no? Just curious on what you surmise about this, thanks,

Will

Looks like engadget is chiming in on the 4000.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/panasonic-issues-mildly-revamped-pt-ae4000-1080p-projector-at-if/

I didn't realize the "multiplier" would be so simple as to be that fixed...I just assumed (when I thought about it, which hasn't been much) that the algorithm was highly complicated, and the "multiplier" itself constantly varied on a curve depending on a lot of other variables (just guessing), like total light per frame, preceding and following frames, the gamma curve, etc.You are right that it is much more complicated than I put it there. I was talking about basically the multiplier for how much dimmer absolute black could go with the DI enabled. In other words, the biggest multiplier across all material for a particular mode. The projector still does all sorts of things in between the extremes. For instance, it could close the iris 20% for one scene, 30% for another, etc., all while adjusting gamma or input to the display chips/panels to compensate for the iris closing down. The multiplier is one indicator of how aggressive a DI is in total range, but not in time or how soon it starts going to its fully closed iris position as content gets dimmer.
And, come to think of it, maybe it does...still, if it's a linear curve given these relationships, should be easy enough to change. Or to make user-adjustable.The projector designers need to test each option and there algorithms may be such that it isn't that easy to make parameters to the DI system user-adjustable in general. But they could have one more level of aggression that they could let the user choose.
Related question: how is it Epson, using nominally the same chips, can get noticeably better black levels than Panasonic?I don't know, but according to the measurements on the cine4home.de site (can be translated from German to English with babelfish.yahoo.com or Google) the Epson 6500UB has significantly more native on/off CR than the Panasonic AE3000. So, it is just by making the iris more aggressive.

In one test of the TW5000 (I think this is the European version of the 6500UB) they got 5k:1 native and 22k:1 dynamic in Hp mode (D65 calibrated) and 6k:1 native and 78k:1 dynamic in Alive mode.

--Darin

JohnRockets: If you hit the "Read" link, you'll see that they're just relying on the Trusted Reviews link, above. No new info; in fact, it's even murkier, second- or third-hand. I.e. what cinemascope issues are they talking about? The zoom needing to be adjusted over time as it slips? Black bars off the screen top and bottom being eliminated somehow? (BTW: couldn't they implement a slide-in frame that physically would block light from these bars in 'scope mode? A la the red filter? Update: I guess that would scatter light back in the lightpath...darnit.) Or, are they just generically referring not to an improvement over the 3000, but just to their zoom/memory function in general, over other brands, yet again in this new generation, just as with the 3000?

Qustions? I got a million of 'em! ;)

willdao -- Correction, per the latest on PJC (http://www.projectorcentral.com/projector_news.cfm?2009-09-02-Upcoming-Home-Theater-Reviews&entry_id=287), the new Epson is claiming "200,000:1". If the AE4000 doesn't do better than a, close to, real 80,000:1 (with the advertised # even higher), then it's going to be behind the curve.

Hi, Claus,

Long time no read! Thanks for the update; I'm not sure where I saw the 120,000:1 spec...I've been all over the web trying to glean some info. these last few days (haven't we all?! :)

Wow, 200,000:1. If they get even close to that, should be a brilliant PJ--if this spec translates into somehing dramatically better in a calibrated mode.

Thx,

Will

From another thread here (I haven't checked these links yet, just throwing it up first):

[EDIT: Because the link gets truncated by AVS, the What Hi-Fi page won't load. I'll grab it a replace it...EDIT2: The pageis dead, 404, at the moment, no clue why.]

A few more details

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.whathifi.com/News/Panason...-home-cinemas/

a new optical system
100Hz Intelligent Frame Creation
an enhanced Lens Memory 2 system, able to store up to six zoom/focus positions
automatic switching between 16:9 and 2.35:1 content using signal aspect detection
Advanced Gamma Adjustment
intelligent power management system, able to reduce lamp output in scenes where full brightness isn't required


And:

AVForums over in Britain has their video up now:

"Exclusive Panasonic PTAE4000 Projector Launch" video now available here:

http://www.avforums.com/tv/

Cool: 2 I/O triggers. Never could figure out why Panny didn't include triggers on the 1000-3000...

From another thread here (I haven't checked these links yet, just throwing it up first):

[EDIT: Because the link gets truncated by AVS, the What Hi-Fi page won't load. I'll grab it a replace it...EDIT2: The pageis dead, 404, at the moment, no clue why.]

A few more details

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.whathifi.com/News/Panason...-home-cinemas/

a new optical system
100Hz Intelligent Frame Creation
an enhanced Lens Memory 2 system, able to store up to six zoom/focus positions
automatic switching between 16:9 and 2.35:1 content using signal aspect detection
Advanced Gamma Adjustment
intelligent power management system, able to reduce lamp output in scenes where full brightness isn't required


And:

AVForums over in Britain has their video up now:

"Exclusive Panasonic PTAE4000 Projector Launch" video now available here:

http://www.avforums.com/tv/

Thanks for the link and now we can confirm 4K is on the way.

I like the boost red, 50%, in cinema 1 mode and 2.35 auto detect features...

Time for me to go to storage and get my 3K box, pack and ready to eBay as soon as they release the 4K :D

Info starting to trickle in!!!!!!!!!!!

Interesting quote here that I am more than intrigued by...wonder what they mean??

-"These include the second iteration of Panasonic's Lens Memory technology, which aims to eliminate the Cinemascope issue and offer a true 2.35:1 aspect cinema experience"

http://www.trustedreviews.com/home-cinema/news/2009/09/03/IFA-2009--Panasonic-PT-AE4000-Cinemascope-Projector-Unveiled/p1


Count me in as someone who will pony up for one of these if they actually incorporate an internal animorphic lense, how bas@$$ would that be? (plus it would make it an extra several thousand dollar value, not that it needed it). Wonder what they'll include in th AE5000, an automasking 2.35:1 screen?

Count me in as someone who will pony up for one of these if they actually incorporate an internal animorphic lense, how bas@$$ would that be? (plus it would make it an extra several thousand dollar value, not that it needed it). Wonder what they'll include in th AE5000, an automasking 2.35:1 screen?

I fear that there is a difference between Panasonic Marketing and most of the people on this forum when it comes to the meaning of "a true 2.35:1 aspect cinema experience".

Cool: 2 I/O triggers. Never could figure out why Panny didn't include triggers on the 1000-3000...

Nice find on the video Will...if I had one thing to wish for an upgrade to the AE3000 it would be higher brightness in best mode...looks like with their redder lamp tachnology they will achieve that (and probably make dynamic mode much more watchable), as always, in addition to better perceived black levels which should come from closing down the iris a bit further.

It may be another big year for Panasonic pjs...

...also, all the talk about making black bars on 2.35:1 material makes me wonder if they are implementing an option like the old Sharp 3000 DLPs used to have where there was something physically place in front of the light engine (or whatever its called on DLP) to block the grey bars completely out. I don't know what it was but it worked, I wouldn't put any amount of "video magic" past Panasonic after the lens/aspect ratio memory thing, they seem to be out to take the other kids lunch money in the front pj market.

Count me in as someone who will pony up for one of these if they actually incorporate an internal animorphic lense, how bas@$$ would that be? (plus it would make it an extra several thousand dollar value, not that it needed it). Wonder what they'll include in th AE5000, an automasking 2.35:1 screen?

I think they are still using the zoom method.

I think they are still using the zoom method.

I bet they are in the near future.

But I just can't imagine in 2011 and beyond, they can't make a PJ that able to have 2 chips, 1.85 & 2.35:1, inside and able to send native size of the materials w/o lens & etc. Wouldn't be the ultimate machine we've been waiting for ;)

Nice find on the video Will...if I had one thing to wish for an upgrade to the AE3000 it would be higher brightness in best mode...looks like with their redder lamp tachnology they will achieve that (and probably make dynamic mode much more watchable), as always, in addition to better perceived black levels which should come from closing down the iris a bit further.

It may be another big year for Panasonic pjs...

Thanks for the kudos, but it wasn't me, it was madshi, in THIS THREAD:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1176184

You'll want to check this out, too--and mods, we may need some thread consolidation...:)

(Meanwhile, I'm gonna keep on postin'!) :)

Will

...also, all the talk about making black bars on 2.35:1 material makes me wonder if they are implementing an option like the old Sharp 3000 DLPs used to have where there was something physically place in front of the light engine (or whatever its called on DLP) to block the grey bars completely out. I don't know what it was but it worked, I wouldn't put any amount of "video magic" past Panasonic after the lens/aspect ratio memory thing, they seem to be out to take the other kids lunch money in the front pj market.

pottscb, earlier this morning (in post 103, above)--before all the deets were out--I wondered whether this was possible...then I thought about it. I would bet this would throw reflected light back into the lightpath, ruining contrast it was trying to help...do you think?

Will

Ekki, a.k.a. Cine4Home, will have a preliminary test of the PJ up very soon:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Whitefield
http://www.whathifi.com/News/Panason...-home-cinemas/
a new optical system
100Hz Intelligent Frame Creation
an enhanced Lens Memory 2 system, able to store up to six zoom/focus positions
automatic switching between 16:9 and 2.35:1 content using signal aspect detection
Advanced Gamma Adjustment
intelligent power management system, able to reduce lamp output in scenes where full brightness isn't required

Auto switching between aspect ratios! Now that's a feature my wife will love.


The main features of the 4000 are not mentioned: A special new lamp and color filter. We are finishing right now our full detailed preview with first measurements...


This is from the other AVS thread, linked above, where I got the links for What Hi-Fi (still dead) and the AVForums vid. Again, the other AVS thread is HERE:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1176184

Ekki, a.k.a. Cine4Home, will have a preliminary test of the PJ up very soon:It's up. Looks like about 3000:1 native on/off CR in one mode. Here is one way to get to it translated to English:

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

--Darin

OOTB (out of the box) grayscale tracking looks good in "calibrated" mode; brightness increased significantly. (In the AVForums vid., the German Panasonic rep said light output offered "up to 150% more brightness" in the calibrated Color1 mode...what he must have meant was "increased 50%, for up to 150% of [the 3000's] brightness" in this mode.)

Native contrast of 3000:1 is an improvement, but still way below, say, Epson's. Still, if the subjective picture--given higher calibrated brightness--is good, then...well, there you have it! Maybe a lot of pop and good perceived contrast to boot will make for a compelling picture. I'm thinkin' esp. for very large 'scope screens...

Me.... Yes! ill put my 3000 up for sale when they come out! :)

Me, too. Planning for Feb./March or so--right in the peak middle of the availability AND rebate cycles! :D

Me, too. Planning for Feb./March or so--right in the peak middle of the availability AND rebate cycles! :D

Me.... Yes! ill put my 3000 up for sale when they come out! :)

Oh no price war already :D

So what are you all going to sell your ae3000u for? What is the msrp for the ae4000?

So what are you all going to sell your ae3000u for? What is the msrp for the ae4000?

Not sure we can talk about price here...

Please PM me for my price.

I hope 4k will be less than $3k.

Is there a big picture difference on the ax200 vs ae2000

vid53 -- You are in the wrong thread! The simple answer is "Yes". See the reviews, on those two PJs, at: www.projectorreviews.com.

Is there a big picture difference on the ax200 vs ae2000

I had both.Yes their is a difference.Sharpness being one of them/and image Depth