Plenty of news in the 3000 plus forum, nothing posted here in the $20K plus, lets go people start spilling the beans

Most action starts from the bottom working up in that lower priced value products see the most action with the scale falling off as we get into the higher priced product.

Ill start:
Sim2 will have the new 5000 and a higher end 3 chip. Already a thread on the Barco being shown. DP will show its 3D ready model. Reminder: there's no 3D format yet. The Christie and PD have proven disappointments I wonder if they will be on display, does anyone care!
There will be a 8k Laser showing 4k content scaled to 8k and 2k 3D scaled to 4k each eye. Your high end home system will look like it was manufactured by "Mattel" after watching this one.
Meridian will probably have their JVC OEM 4k again at the show but we are hoping Sony will finally unveil theirs with built in scaler with several other welcomed features at 1/4th the price.

Tell us more about the new SIM units.

Art

Theta are working on an HDMI card for their CBIII! There might even be a working, but not hooked up to anything example there!!!! :eek:

;)

Procella will be showing off their speakers (but not on the show floor)

Many exhibitors will be showing off site to save money. Fortunately there are several hotels close by where they will be. attence is expected to be about 40% down from 2 years ago with show floor space and number of exibitors down significantly.

BTW. Its 3 weeks till, not two.

Dennis. I`ll be flying down in a 2 engine prop plane, six seater carrying five. Flying out of Leesburg, Va. Should be about 5 hours engine time RT.

Most action starts from the bottom working up in that lower priced value products see the most action with the scale falling off as we get into the higher priced product.

Ill start:
Sim2 will have the new 5000 and a higher end 3 chip. Already a thread on the Barco being shown. DP will show its 3D ready model. Reminder: there's no 3D format yet. The Christie and PD have proven disappointments I wonder if they will be on display, does anyone care!
There will be a 8k Laser showing 4k content scaled to 8k and 2k 3D scaled to 4k each eye. Your high end home system will look like it was manufactured by "Mattel" after watching this one.
Meridian will probably have their JVC OEM 4k again at the show but we are hoping Sony will finally unveil theirs with built in scaler with several other welcomed features at 1/4th the price.

What new Sim2 5000, and what higher end 3 chip DLP?

What new Sim2 5000, and what higher end 3 chip DLP?

Not sure it will be shown at Cedia, but the latest Sim2 5000 iteration (will not be called that) is more like the Pro5DL than the 5K. Supposed to be dual lamp and msrp at $100K. Not sure what they are doing to improve contrast, assuming they are on the dual lamp version, but it will not be the dynamic black found in the Lumis as that requires the Alphapath light engine. Doesn't work with the Delta engine in the 5K.


Jim

Procella will be showing off their speakers (but not on the show floor)

I think this name will become much more well known over the next 12 months or so. They are well worth a listen if you get the chance.

Not sure it will be shown at Cedia, but the latest Sim2 5000 iteration (will not be called that) is more like the Pro5DL than the 5K. Supposed to be dual lamp and msrp at $100K. Not sure what they are doing to improve contrast, assuming they are on the dual lamp version, but it will not be the dynamic black found in the Lumis as that requires the Alphapath light engine. Doesn't work with the Delta engine in the 5K.


Jim

Hmmm, makes the Titan 3D 1080P Dual look like a steal

Many exhibitors will be showing off site to save money. Fortunately there are several hotels close by where they will be. attence is expected to be about 40% down from 2 years ago with show floor space and number of exibitors down significantly.

Yup, the combo of the economy and being the shows first year at a new location will hurt a little.
I was told Cedia got wise to off site locations. This year if you want to be listed with Cedia you must pay the going fee as if you had a booth even if you are off site.

Lacelotlink:

So you are brand new to the forum?

Dennis. I`ll be flying down in a 2 engine prop plane, six seater carrying five. Flying out of Leesburg, Va. Should be about 5 hours engine time RT.

What type and where are you parking in Atlanta?

When I win the lottery, I'm going to buy a Cessna Mustang, a P51 D model Mustang, and a Ford Mustang. I'm going to park them all in a hanger and call it the Mustang Ranch. :)

I think this name will become much more well known over the next 12 months or so. They are well worth a listen if you get the chance.

They will be at the Westin. I can't speak to what we're doing with them; but, it will be a big surprise.

I was flying into a satellite airport. I said was because now it is unlikely that I will be attending. Very suddenly and urgently I am scheduled for exploratory heart surgery on Monday with the likely outcome because I am diabetic of having to have bypass surgery on Tuesday instead of multiple stints. I guess it all depends on what they find on Monday first. But if its bypass on Tuesday I will not be in any condition to go to Atlanta in 3 weeks.

Not sure it will be shown at Cedia, but the latest Sim2 5000 iteration (will not be called that) is more like the Pro5DL than the 5K. Supposed to be dual lamp and msrp at $100K. Not sure what they are doing to improve contrast, assuming they are on the dual lamp version, but it will not be the dynamic black found in the Lumis as that requires the Alphapath light engine. Doesn't work with the Delta engine in the 5K.

$100k for an HT5000 variant, I assume it must has some serious performance increase.

Realistically, I would be expecting it to have a slot that says "insert penis here".:D

I wonder if this is the "heavy metal" version, or if that's the one Lancelot is refering to.

I was flyig into a satellite airport. I said was because now it is unlikely that I will be attending. Very suddenly and urgently I am scheduled for exploratory heart surgery on Monday with the likely outcome because I am diabetic of having to have bypass surgery on Tuesday instead of multiple stints. I guess it all depends on what they find on Monday first. But if its bypass on Tuesday I will not be in any condition to go to Atlanta in 3 weeks.

Sorry to hear, get well soon

$100k for an HT5000 variant, I assume it must has some serious performance increase.

Realistically, I would be expecting it to have a slot that says "insert penis here".:D

I wonder if this is the "heavy metal" version, or if that's the one Lancelot is refering to.

No actually what it says in the Spec sheet is bend over and grab the soap please :D

No actually what it says in the Spec sheet is bend over and grab the soap please :D

I defer to your experience.:D

Wishing you the best Mark.


Jim

Very suddenly and urgently I am scheduled for exploratory heart surgery on Monday with the likely outcome because I am diabetic of having to have bypass surgery on Tuesday instead of multiple stints. I guess it all depends on what they find on Monday first. But if its bypass on Tuesday I will not be in any condition to go to Atlanta in 3 weeks.
This just happened to my Grandmother who is also diabetic. She was able to get 4 stinks this past Monday. She had 80% blockage in one area. She's doing fine and at home now. Best wishes and I hope you can avoid the bypass surgery.

I was flyig into a satellite airport. I said was because now it is unlikely that I will be attending. Very suddenly and urgently I am scheduled for exploratory heart surgery on Monday with the likely outcome because I am diabetic of having to have bypass surgery on Tuesday instead of multiple stints. I guess it all depends on what they find on Monday first. But if its bypass on Tuesday I will not be in any condition to go to Atlanta in 3 weeks.

Mark, as always,my very best. Get well live long and prosper, my good friend.

OMG, Mark. Very sorry to hear that and the very best to you.

I was flyig into a satellite airport. I said was because now it is unlikely that I will be attending. Very suddenly and urgently I am scheduled for exploratory heart surgery on Monday with the likely outcome because I am diabetic of having to have bypass surgery on Tuesday instead of multiple stints. I guess it all depends on what they find on Monday first. But if its bypass on Tuesday I will not be in any condition to go to Atlanta in 3 weeks.


Take care Mark, hope all goes well.

Art

Realistically, I would be expecting it to have a slot that says "insert penis here".:D



I've heard you guys ask where's the best place to mount your projectors but I was afraid to ask what you meant. Thanks for the clarification CM.

Art

Perhaps that's why he prefers to be known as coldmachine. After sticking willy in hotmachine and burning his nuts it just made more sense to stick with coldmachine.
Just kidding of course.

Thanks for the well wishes. You guys are going to have to be my eyes at the show. i can`t believe i will be missing a cedia but most of all I`ll miss seing you guys there. It us something I look very much forward to.

Art. Obviously I can no longer arrange the dinners for Friday and`or Sat night.

Mark, all the best, and here's hoping the tests are all negative and you're cleared to go. Regards, Norm

Mark - all my best wishes; whatever procedure(s) they decide on, I hope everything goes well and you're back on your feet soon...

Mark you bummed me out- I will meditate with positive vibes sent to you (my way of praying ;)). In keeping with your suggestion that we keep our eyes on the ball I will continue by stating welcome Lancelotlink and welcome the news of the 700,000 Laser unit being shown. E and S "You are going down...":D,:D, :D ....at least with 2d content. ;)

Those that will be looking at the Superkontrast at the Temple (and I wish the projector not being referred to as a Barco because a plain vanilla Barco certainly does not look anything like this,or even a contrast enhanced Barco at rec 709 either, nor will it ever get the level of support available on the SK version), I would like honest opinions about the Laser projector at $700,000 versus the Superkontrast which by that pricing logic I have been saying offers an $800,000 image. That projector is in fact what emboldened me to do the right thing and take the cat out of the bag at CEDIA.

Reminder: there's no 3D format yet.

True there are no formats, the big decisions are which frame rate.

Double flash for 50/60 is what most likely the prescribed format handles primarily with the possibility of triple flash retreival for 144 fps.

The connectivity will be an issue. Dual DVI is used in the Titan and is also the format for Video gaming (the format with by far the largest and most appealing high value content library at the moment).

The Barco Superkontrast Series 2 will accommodate triple flash 24, double flash sixty and 24, and possibly I cannot confirm yet a mind blowing triple flash 60.

Because the dci units are dual hs sdi fed, and the existing product is dual dvi, plus there is talk of a single hdmi connection being possible. expect a slew of pro grade black boxes to interface the different sources to the different projectors.

True there are no formats, the big decisions are which frame rate.

Double flash for 50/60 is what most likely the prescribed format handles primarily with the possibility of triple flash retreival for 144 fps.

The connectivity will be an issue. Dual DVI is used in the Titan and is also the format for Video gaming (the format with by far the largest and most appealing high value content library at the moment).

The Barco Superkontrast Series 2 will accommodate triple flash 24, double flash sixty and 24, and possibly I cannot confirm yet a mind blowing triple flash 60.

Because the dci units are dual hs sdi fed, and the existing product is dual dvi, plus there is talk of a single hdmi connection being possible. expect a slew of pro grade black boxes to interface the different sources to the different projectors.

The DP is a "gaming" machine for sure. I suspect they will launch a new model once we have a format.
Besides "connectivity" you cannot convert ( movies ) 24 to 30 or 60 without judder.

They are going to do 3-d pull up for film content played back on 120 fps displays. with 60 double flash you are looking at sports, broadcasts and gaming all originated at 30, not many displays handle 144hz. It is possible the double flash 120 handles double flash 24 for 96fps as an option, we really need the BD format to alllow for the original frame rate of 144fps, regardless the absence of projectors with that capability at the moment, except the sk's though hdsdi.

I will get the exact specification from Panasonic's Eisuke Tsuyuzaki at the show, if he is there I will drag him into the temple and explain the important issues for High End HT.

In the "US only" this judder may not be an issue we were raised with it:(

Yeah.Judder? What Judder? :D

Tell us more about the new SIM units.

Art

What new Sim2 5000, and what higher end 3 chip DLP?

Not specific on details but it is safe to say a new model will be on display at the show. Could it have the digits 6000 in it?

Thanks! :)

Will need to see that for sure.

Art

Mark Haflich,your PM box is full , I need to PM you.

Art

I heard about the HT6000 through the grapevine too....

What did you hear Max?

The name, and that it is a dual lamp. That it is very expensive.

I do not think it is 3-D ready. Nor I think it will have anything over the Titan Reference 700.

Some guyS are specking them already all over the place.

http://miamibadc.com/Images/superkontrast-back.jpg

http://miamibadc.com/Images/superkontrast-side.jpg

http://miamibadc.com/Images/superkontrast-1200-arrives-010.jpg

There is only One World, there is only One Projector. My latest Epiphany. :D

And let me introduce you to the new projector outfit in the scene:
http://miamibadc.com/Images/DGA-TECH-UPGRADE.jpg

CINERAMAX PARTNERS WITH MOVING IMAGE TECHNOLOGIES TO BRING DCI-COMPLIANT DIGITAL CINEMA TO HIGH END HOME CINEMAS
OPTIMIZED BARCO DCI PROJECTORS PROVIDE HEART OF COMPLETE REFERENCE SYTEM TO CEDIA HOME THEATER DESIGNER-INSTALLERS

Fountain Valley, Ca - Miami, FL (August 1, 2009)
CINERAMAX has partnered with Moving Image Technologies of Fountain Valley, CA to provide products and services to this high-end home cinema market.
Moving Image Technologies (MiT), the leading BARCO VAR, produces a full complement of motion picture equipment and services including: custom engineering, systems design, systems integration, digital technology solutions for 3D, digital cinema, pre-feature on-screen advertising and other components to support the cinema industry’s transition to digital. MiT provides design, procurement, installation and service to the creative and production communities for screening, digital intermediate and other critical viewing rooms.
CINERAMAX is a prominent ‘next generation’ screening room design firm catering to captains of industry and celebrity clientele through a series of limited edition internationally dispersed “Moons of Saturn” named cinema collection. The nom de plume CINERAMAX is also the blogging presence of CINERAMAX LLC’s technical director, a co-founder of CEDIA; with over 30 years experience and attributed to have used the term “Home Theater” for the first time in its technical context, he is considered worldwide a preeminent expert in the field of advanced screening systems’ engineering.
“Barco DP series projectors are the choice of the Hollywood creative community when it comes to high quality 2k projection. The product is engineered to provide the highest image quality along with the most flexible and user friendly software for customizing the projector configuration. Optimized for color, contrast and long term reliability, these projectors are simply the finest available.”- Peter Montoulieu, Technical Director, CINERAMAX, LLC.
“Because of the unprecedented success of incorporating the optimized BARCO DP-1500 in CINERAMAX’s recent HELENE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=908533) and PROMETHEUS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1021614) reference screening rooms, a technological barrier has been transcended and proof of concept has been achieved. With CINERAMAX’s 2 year experience in these most difficult CEDIA type jobs, the collaboration between MiT and CINERAMAX makes clear sense in order to bring this advanced level of screening room technology to the most exclusive homes the world over.” - Bevan Wright, VP, Operations at Moving Image Technologies. A growing network of BARCO certified cinema technicians will be available for local 24/7 field maintenance with complementing remote-monitoring and diagnostics capabilities.
A BARCO DP-1200 with the SUPERKONTRAST and the DEPTH FX dimensionalisation enhancements will be introduced at the SMX booth (6235) this upcoming CEDIA EXPO 2009 - September 9-13, 2009 ATLANTA, GA.
www.cineramax.com www.movingimagetech.com

Peter. Very nice.

ah Peter..the humility:D

You guys have no understanding as to the difficulting of being humble when you are perfect.

Peter. Very nice.

Thank you Mark. Many positive vibrations to you and your wife. Look forward to see you new & improved.;)

With the series 2 projectors arriving the first of 2010, we will have support for every conceivable double flash and triple flash iteration. With these modded projectors and the Dolby 3-D PERFECT platform, which unlike IMAX, IMAX3-D DigitaL & Real D do not have inherent crosstalk ghosting errors. Even the best of these formats including the 70 mm Imax 3-D suck by comparison to the Dolby (INFITEC LICENSED)system.

Thus when AVATAR comes out in BLU RAY 3-D, VIDEOPHILES will have a chance to enjoying the movie in BETTER THAN IMAX/REAL -D QUALITY. With regular unity gain screens devoid of the fake looking silver screen sheen and colander grit creating a volley ball net in the middle of the Percival zone of comfort (the virtual stage of a 3-D show, from the nearmost off the screen limit, to the furthermost backstage background pane.

THIS IS HUGE and it is not talked about because Movie Theaters don't care about image perfection that much.

To convery this reality I am working on a booth poster for the temple.

http://miamibadc.com/Images/Poster-1.jpg If Cameron sees his film on the SUPERKONTRAST with the DEPTH FX set to Far, he is likely to hug me.:D

I have just started watching the Blu Ray of the first Season of "Mad Men" which is on AMC. Talk about beautiful late 50's/early 60's scenery and video. I can just see Cineramax's dad puffing on cigars and cigarrettes back then doing ads to sell us all that unhealthful cigarettes!!!@@ And Max has sure got that "Mad Men" salesmanship, doesn't he? But I gotta admit he does produce!!!! His pictures and screens are as big and well endowed as his EGO!!!@@@ If only I could afford his charisma for my theater - I guess I will have to stick with the likes of Mark Haflich or
AVS and Alan Gouger for my video needs. I am too "small" for Max.

Well, he did have an offer of a 1200, plus some dolby headphones, and if you don't let him sell you onto those expensive seats, you might be able to get onto the Cineramax lifestyle;-).

I am sure he will have some used-Kontrasts around when the new 'model 2' ones arrive.

Yea, I bet you could strike a deal with Peter.

Art

Though, I doubt Steve is urging an upgrade, as he has been delighting in his Sim2 setup in several threads.

With the series 2 projectors arriving the first of 2010, we will have support for every conceivable double flash and triple flash iteration. With these modded projectors and the Dolby 3-D PERFECT platform, which unlike IMAX, IMAX3-D DigitaL & Real D do not have inherent crosstalk ghosting errors. Even the best of these formats including the 70 mm Imax 3-D suck by comparison to the Dolby (INFITEC LICENSED)system.

Thus when AVATAR comes out in BLU RAY 3-D, VIDEOPHILES will have a chance to enjoying the movie in BETTER THAN IMAX/REAL -D QUALITY. With regular unity gain screens devoid of the fake looking silver screen sheen and colander grit creating a volley ball net in the middle of the Percival zone of comfort (the virtual stage of a 3-D show, from the nearmost off the screen limit, to the furthermost backstage background pane.

THIS IS HUGE and it is not talked about because Movie Theaters don't care about image perfection that much.

To convery this reality I am working on a booth poster for the temple.

http://miamibadc.com/Images/Poster-1.jpg If Cameron sees his film on the SUPERKONTRAST with the DEPTH FX set to Far, he is likely to hug me.:D

I can just see it now, the next Indian Jones movie. "Indiana Jones, Cineramax and The Temple of Home Theater".

you might be able to get onto the Cineramax lifestyle;-).

Be careful there, the Cineramax lifestyle involves the wearing of assless chaps, frequenting the Blue Oyster Bar and a relocate to San Fransisco.:D

This has to be the least CEDIA discussion I've ever seen since I've been on the forum. I certainly hope that there ends up being more there than the discussion indicates. I've had to give up some important things to be able to get there and back sandwiched between other commitments.

Art

This has to be the least CEDIA discussion I've ever seen since I've been on the forum. I certainly hope that there ends up being more there than the discussion indicates. I've had to give up some important things to be able to get there and back sandwiched between other commitments.

Art

I'm just hoping that a lot of cards are being held close to chests.

[QUOTE=lancelotlink;17032250]There will be a 8k Laser showing 4k content scaled to 8k and 2k 3D scaled to 4k each eye. QUOTE]

e§s will show a 8k laser pr. thats true.

they will show native 8k in 2d (not upscale) and nativ 4k in 3d.

thats the first time as far as i know that there will be a public
demo of a 4k resolution 3d "running film" not stills.

this demo is a must see demo and no one that will be a cedea should
miss that!

Be careful there, the Cineramax lifestyle involves the wearing of assless chaps, frequenting the Blue Oyster Bar and a relocate to San Fransisco.:D

Everything beats the dessert :D.

Well Art,

After missing 2 CESs and CEDIA last year, I'm finally back to a tradeshow- and not working a booth for once! This year I can actually spend time on the floor looking at the products for myself, and at my own pace no less. Is Angela coming down with you this year, or are you solo?

Dan

Art has to come solo so he can pick up the dinner tab Friday!

Yup, the combo of the economy and being the shows first year at a new location will hurt a little.
I was told Cedia got wise to off site locations. This year if you want to be listed with Cedia you must pay the going fee as if you had a booth even if you are off site.

Watch out for this dude!!

In a year or two, he may be the next Cineramax!!!!@@@

Peter, after seeing your " Superkontrast " demo, all I can say is WOW!! What a projector !! Yours and the JVC RS 4000 4K machine were the best at CEDIA IMO ( in the Mega Spendy Division ) !!!! Unbelievable picture !!

e§s will show a 8k laser pr. thats true.

this demo is a must see demo and no one that will be a cedea should
miss that!I don't want to miss it, but I don't see them listed. If they are showing it I would appreciate it if somebody would let me know where to go to see it.

Thanks,
Darin

where's the 4k demo for jvc?

where's the 4k demo for jvc?In the Omni hotel. I think it is in the International Ballroom.

The JVC 4K demo was amazing. And the best part was that it look ed amazing on a big a## screen using upconverted Blu Ray as a source, according th the JVC rep showing it to us.

I'd need a bigger house for that sized screen though ! :eek:

I partially agree Craig. The native 4k content on the 4k pj was best in show. The scaled bluray looked nice, but I am not sure it was better than the the other JVCs. The 4k has 10k to 1 on/off and uses an analog back plane.

Ericglo
Analog backplane? I thought JVC had gone digital on all their panels by now. Who told you this as a fact.
Also did JVC intend to move to digital conntrol or stay with analog? Since the contrast was good for a big lumen projector it seems not to hurt contrast using analog.
I remember something from JVC stating the digital backplane was for the consumer market and the analog backplane would be reserved for professional products.

What about the control of their 8K panel is that going to be digital or analog? Which approach is easier to solve at that level of bandwidth?

Looking at the specs of the 4K JVC package (4K custom videoprocessor, special lens and calibrated) it must be the same as the Meridian 810 setup.

I was also wondering about the Analog Back plane. Was that chosen because it has some advantages or was it a limitation due to the 4k technology. I dont expect an answer only JVC knows but wanted to address
Mattias post.


Looking at the specs of the 4K JVC package (4K custom videoprocessor, special lens and calibrated) it must be the same as the Meridian 810 setup.

A year ago you could have bought the projector for 80k from JVC. Its looking like they are now OEMing back their own OEM.

With great trepidation, I donned my disguise and visited Peter's booth. He found me out ... I guess it was the name tag. In any case, that was a great picture.

Anyone get to experience the PMI/Triad "room"? Opinions?

It was one of the guys at JVC. Darin might be able to elaborate. Darin, Stacey and I spent over an hour at JVC. When we were at the 4k demo, I started to walk around going up to the screen and looking at it at different angles. Plus, I took some pics. I didn't know if we were allowed, so I was trying to be a little sneaky.:)

The 4k demo with 4k material was best in show. Period, in my opinion.

Here are some 4k pj pics with 4k material.

A close up pic:
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9130/class072custom.th.jpg (http://img245.imageshack.us/i/class072custom.jpg/)

(http://img245.imageshack.us/i/class072custom.jpg/)

Probably the best pic I took:
[IMG]http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7053/class073custom.th.jpg (http://img190.imageshack.us/i/class073custom.jpg/)

(http://img190.imageshack.us/i/class073custom.jpg/)

[IMG]http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7864/class074custom.th.jpg (http://img190.imageshack.us/i/class074custom.jpg/)

(http://img190.imageshack.us/i/class074custom.jpg/)

[IMG]http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3276/class075custom.th.jpg (http://img223.imageshack.us/i/class075custom.jpg/)

(http://img223.imageshack.us/i/class075custom.jpg/)

my best bluray shot:
[IMG]http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3523/class076custom.th.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/i/class076custom.jpg/)

[img=http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3523/class076custom.th.jpg] (http://img9.imageshack.us/i/class076custom.jpg/)

Anyone get to experience the PMI/Triad "room"? Opinions?
I sat through it.

It was a step up from the Genelec room (which I thought was pretty awful due to poor setup/material, etc.). For $106K worth of speakers and room treatment (no electronics), I didn't think it sounded great enough. Two doors down, the Wisdom Audio demo at $86K, inclusive of the amps (I think), sounded worlds better. This was helped with much better demo material though. The Martin Logan in stereo also cleaned its clocks (didn't hear it in stereo).

The room was also quite ugly with panels and speakers piled on top of each other in every direction. Other rooms sounded better with much less equipment and room treatment.

Overall, it was a good effort but not stellar. Maybe with more appropriate material it could have done better.

Anyone get to experience the PMI/Triad "room"? Opinions?

The PMI/Triad had little bass considering the size of the room and the fact that they were using 12 x 12" subs (three on each wall). I was told that they ran into an issue the morning I saw the demo and may have fried a speaker (oops!). I was told the tweeter was replaced but who knows if anything else suffered.

It was a good execution but the value proposition leaves a bit to be desired for the performance.

The room did look pretty bad with the panels on the wall.

Well that's certainly disappointing given the hype. 12 twelve inch woofers should've been able to rock the house you would think.

Well that's certainly disappointing given the hype. 12 twelve inch woofers should've been able to rock the house you would think.

to be fair, I have pretty ridiculous standards when it comes to bass but I would like to see more output.

to be fair, I have pretty ridiculous standards when it comes to bass but I would like to see more output.

lol. Iirc, you have a couple of Seaton subs. I followed the thread a while back. Even so, 12 subs of any reasonable quality should be impressive. Especially when they're being packaged as part of a pricey system.

I was told Cedia got wise to off site locations. This year if you want to be listed with Cedia you must pay the going fee as if you had a booth even if you are off site.Auydessy had a cute trick. Well 2 of them actually. They were listed on the floor but when I went to look for them, instead of a booth they had 2 cuties who escorted you to a private shuttle to the training :D.

Auydessy had a cute trick. Well 2 of them actually. They were listed on the floor but when I went to look for them, instead of a booth they had 2 cuties who escorted you to a private shuttle to the training :D.

Let me say that was disappointing. After looking all over for them, I finally found them at the Integra booth. They were listed at the NAD/PSB booth. I went into the demo room and listened to the music (Dolby bluray:eek:) playing. It seemed nice, but I wanted a movie. I thought that was the only demo, as the lady I asked didn't know of anything else.

Let me say that was disappointing. After looking all over for them, I finally found them at the Integra booth. They were listed at the NAD/PSB booth. I went into the demo room and listened to the music (Dolby bluray:eek:) playing. It seemed nice, but I wanted a movie. I thought that was the only demo, as the lady I asked didn't know of anything else.They must have been slacking. When I found them they were literally standing on the number that matched my map from the CEDIA Daily I was using. I was looking for the "booth" and was about to give up. I admit I didn't figure it out until they approached me and handed me the training schedule. I saw them before, but something must have distracted :o me so I didn't notice what was actually written on their fronts :). I went to the installer training and was able to take advantage of an excellent savings on my installer kit and a Sub-EQ. My "class" was pretty full, and they even fed us a decent sandwich. I was a happy camper over the whole thing in general. But my goal was to check out the software and kit so it fit me just right.

Hi guys, thank you so much for your warm reception to the SuperKontrast. We have some YouTube video impressions of the Temple.

DENNIS ERSKINE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk71d_qIChw)

ROBERT BLISS - BLISS HOME THEATERS AND AUTOMATION (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN97F0xrq4U)

MIKE MILES (MMILES) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21AuzzYWEgs)

HOISHIK CINEMAPLEX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk_oANpEnDs)

BEST SINCE CINERAMA PREMIERED (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQL-XbzZ4bM)

2PM SESSION (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6G2dkj0VpU)

ERICGLO & DARRINP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5aExv-zul8)

LOUDNESS CAVEAT EMPTOR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQAl-B9eXzE)

Peter, my favorite sparring partner, I am genuinely happy for you. You really seem to have impressed the visitors, many of whom would really know their stuff. You can only do that by doing one thing.........delivering.

Well done dude. Kudos Maximus.

Did you happen to notice a guy at one your demos, 6'4", buzz cut and wearing a bright yellow shirt?

The man in the yellow hat?

The PMI/Triad had little bass considering the size of the room and the fact that they were using 12 x 12" subs (three on each wall). I was told that they ran into an issue the morning I saw the demo and may have fried a speaker (oops!). I was told the tweeter was replaced but who knows if anything else suffered.

It was a good execution but the value proposition leaves a bit to be desired for the performance.

The room did look pretty bad with the panels on the wall.

I agree with you.
I was anticipating a stellar performance from the Triad booth especially with all of the high priced engineering of the room. I was disappointed with it's performance and with 12 x 12" subs, you would expect that room to rock!

The Cineramax/CINEPRO/SMX room had an outstanding picture (far better than any other) with the nicest AT Screen I have seen. The depth effects was clearly a feature that made you say WOW! Kudos to Peter!

I was never a fan of AT screens but SMX has changed my mind! Truly an oustanding screen that adds the Movie experience.

Being an Audiophile at heart It is the sound that wrapped up and sealed the deal! The sound was so clean, detailed and realistic it had me clenching my fists and moving in my seat. I was just as excited as I was watching my first movie in surround sound many, many years ago. I believe that room only had two subs and you felt impacts of the Hulk like he was actually at CEDIA. In my opinion it was the most impressive, engaging and musical performance I have ever experienced. They played a clip of a female vocalist which I would swear was in the room with me...musical and uncolored. The next clip..."The Hulk"..was oustanding playing at levels that truly brought the HULK to Life....SCARY! It was loud but crystal clear. I never experienced any distortion, compression or ringing in my ears. In two other demos I experienced ringing in my ears after leaving the demo.

Peter great job....you really lived up to all of you TALK! I now take you more serious

In defense of Genelec they claimed to have had a faulty BluRay player. I told them the Police demo was bass loaded out the wahzoo. Though not quite 100% it was much better Saturday after a recalibration.

Triad was OK but it did not live up to the hype. I was sorta confused by the close placement of diffusers and absorbtion panels as well as the speakers being pretty high on the wall.

Congratulations Peter.

Sounds like you put on a great show!

Cheers,

Sean

Anyone venture to hall B to the Procellia booth? I did but was not impressed based on all the pre show hype. Keep in mind they were in open air with no sound room but I pulled out a chair and sat 6-8' away then moved a bit further back. They needed a sealed room of sorts and surround demo.

It sounded OK but not outstanding for $18K [top of the line mid/high cabinet with 15" sub - active] for the pair. I'm posting here so not to hijack the Procellia thread...

MM,
I totally forgot about them. I probably walked past them two or three times, but didn't put two and two together. Unfortunately, the B Hall was kind of the Danny Devito hall from Twins. I am curious if the B hall was less expensive than C or if it was the luck of the draw. I am assuming that it was less expensive based on the companies that were over there.

I am not sure if anyone else noticed, but there was quite a bit of area that was unused in B. If it was less expensive, then was there really any excuse to have demos offsite?

Damn, I am fat in that video. Could you edit a couple of pounds off of me?:D

Anyone venture to hall B to the Procellia booth? I did but was not impressed based on all the pre show hype. Keep in mind they were in open air with no sound room but I pulled out a chair and sat 6-8' away then moved a bit further back. They needed a sealed room of sorts and surround demo.

It sounded OK but not outstanding for $18K [top of the line mid/high cabinet with 15" sub - active] for the pair. I'm posting here so not to hijack the Procellia thread...Yes. I stopped there, on my way to the Porsche/Burmester site, but didn't even bother with a Procella audition under the conditions. OTOH, the Burmester system had the advantage of the defined and comfortable space of the Panamera. :D

The PMI/Triad had little bass considering the size of the room and the fact that they were using 12 x 12" subs (three on each wall). I was told that they ran into an issue the morning I saw the demo and may have fried a speaker (oops!). I was told the tweeter was replaced but who knows if anything else suffered.

It was a good execution but the value proposition leaves a bit to be desired for the performance.

The room did look pretty bad with the panels on the wall.

The bass was flat to 15 Hz. If you are used to the bloated, one-note, 8 dB-too hot bass of shows, this demo would have disappointed you. The reason you use 12 subs isn't for "more bass" (more than reference), it's for even bass response, and consistent bass throughout the room. We achieved that. We could have had the same "amount" of bass with three new Platinum subs, but it would have hot-spotted. Apparently, some wanted a 10 dB boost at 20 Hz, which we had the headroom to do. :p

The demos on Thursday were not ready for prime time, but for the rest of the show, I thought it was exceptional, as did other speaker manufacturers who sat through it. I won't mention them by name, but these were heavyweights from notable speaker companies. Also, the reviewers with whom I spoke really liked it. One of the most famous and respected of all reviewers gave us an "A", with the next best demo at the show getting a "C-." I heard lots of too-loud, WAY too-loud one-note bass demos. Again, I won't mention any by name, other than Crestron, which used a Triad system. I thought it sound very good, but the five Gold DSP Subs were cranked about 6 dB too hot in a flimsy room. (Their new processor and amp are very, very nice.)

Thanks to any and all of you who dropped by and heard the demo.

to be fair, I have pretty ridiculous standards when it comes to bass but I would like to see more output.

What exactly does that statement mean?

Peter, my favorite sparring partner, I am genuinely happy for you. You really seem to have impressed the visitors, many of whom would really know their stuff. You can only do that by doing one thing.........delivering.

Well done dude. Kudos Maximus.

Did you happen to notice a guy at one your demos, 6'4", buzz cut and wearing a bright yellow shirt?

Thank you very much CM it means the world to me, now regarding the tall handsome guy in the yellow shirt, thanks for sending your protege over for his approval. :D :D

Thank you very much CM it means the world to me, now regarding the tall handsome guy in the yellow shirt, thanks for sending your protege over for his approval. :D :D

That was my, not very covert, intelligence agent.:D

He is actually a colleague who attended the show. Hes a high end dedicated theater owner, and was very complimentary.

Kal,

The BM demo even in open air was impressive. I can still hear... "no respit no santuary here"


P-Scrap,

Your room sounded good to me but I was confused on the placement of sound treatments. It looked like diffusers, defractors and absorbers in the same general area or stacked on one another or am I confused? I think what may have worked against you in some ways was that the room was hyped quite a bit on this forum pre-show. BTW, I sat next to the national sales manager of a large speaker company as well and he was impressed.

What tool [ software, mic, meter ] did you use to determine qty and placement of the sound treatment panels? At what SPL levels was the material played? What were the dimensions of your room, screen size and seating distance from screen?

I know that AVS does not like a lot of $$$ talk but for just general comparisom sake what was the ballpark retail cost of the package with electronics and room treatments?

I will also tell you it was pretty quiet waiting outside and once the door was shut inside to begin.

Many like BOOM and high level SPLs as for me I'd rather still have my hearing at age 70...

E-GLO said... "Damn, I am fat in that video. Could you edit a couple of pounds off of me?"

Hey that's my line!

The only other B Haller was to be Klipsch. I did not see them nor did I look. But I bet a 7.1 with all Klipsch LaScala's would be wicked nice!

Kal,

The BM demo even in open air was impressive. Who/what is BM?

Burmester

BurmesterNever heard of that abbreviation association. But, yes, I have commented that the the Burmester/Porsche system sounded good and benefited from a more appropriate sound space than all others. ;) Did not bother with the main stuff but I am familiar with Burmester and have low expectation of tradeshow floor demos, even in the so-called sound rooms.

What exactly does that statement mean?

The statement refers to my dual Terraform subs that are flat between 70Hz down to 11Hz in the room. They were setup and calibrated by Mark Seaton. After getting used to some incredibly articulate, dynamic bass that goes very low it sets a high bar.

My two cents ...
From what has been written here and from what I have heard from enthusiasts and professionals, the audio experience in the Genelec, Triad, and "Temple" rooms for each of them ranges all over the map from "best of show" to "unmitigated disaster". Not at all surprising considering the constraints and cramped spaces of shows like CEDIA, CES and EH Expo. I didn't go to either the Triad or Genelec rooms so no first hand comments from me on those rooms ... I know how their speakers perform and had no need to take a seat away from someone else. I did visit the "Temple" and have posted my thoughts elsewhere (too small a space for that kind of speaker design, but excellent results under the circumstances ... I didn't have a too loud problem since they turned the gain down for me). Procella, at the last moment was ready to show and tell at CEDIA (I've heard their prior to the redesign product in a better setting) but; I think it is a mistake to dismiss them based upon this show. In the end, judging speaker performance in a show like this is near impossible given the constraints of the environment. IMHO the absolutely best sound demonstration was at the Quest demo offsite where they were demonstrating their Quest Acoustic Lens product. Truly stunning, 3-dimensional...even better than their roll out at EH Expo. (The Quest Acoustic Lens is not a speaker system but rather a room treatment and calibration product.)

On the video side, the two memorable experiences were the Temple and the Runco LED projector. Peter (and you too Ruben) extracted an incredible picture out of his beast. (Peter, go sit in the corner and behave yourself...you made your point in grand style.) The Runco LED...interesting. The projector's color space is way outside REC 709. (It can be brought in to 709.) Using in house developed (patented) technology they've managed a CR of 21 million:1 (now listed as "infinity:1), color constrast adjustment. Flesh tones didn't turn purple with the expanded color space and it was the first time I've seen Coke Red for real on a display. I'd have liked to see the Claritin commercial on that. From a video purist perspective, that's a problem...but it is also way, way cool.

I'm disappointed that I that top drop out at the11th hour. I was served with an email from my professional study group saying that it was important for me to attend the Saturday morning.

Peter,I'm glad to hear that you held up your end in the temple.

Art

It was a good execution but the value proposition leaves a bit to be desired for the performance.


Can you be more specific as to your expectation of performance? How could it have been done differently in regards to the bass? Was it not "punchy" enough, not "loud", or did it just look like a "fast car" that did not go fast enough, haha. I am generally curious about how 12 subs could do anything but make your inners come loose. Where were the subs placed anyway?

Hey,
Whats the speaker sensitivity on those flat down to 11 subs?

Theta are working on an HDMI card for their CBIII! There might even be a working, but not hooked up to anything example there!!!! :eek:

;)

I gave up on that one.. :(

My two cents ...
On the video side, the two memorable experiences were the Temple and the Runco LED projector. Peter (and you too Ruben) extracted an incredible picture out of his beast. (Peter, go sit in the corner and behave yourself...you made your point in grand style.) The Runco LED...interesting. The projector's color space is way outside REC 709. (It can be brought in to 709.) Using in house developed (patented) technology they've managed a CR of 21 million:1 (now listed as "infinity:1), color constrast adjustment. Flesh tones didn't turn purple with the expanded color space and it was the first time I've seen Coke Red for real on a display. I'd have liked to see the Claritin commercial on that. From a video purist perspective, that's a problem...but it is also way, way cool.

Dennis,
What kind of screen size did Runco use for the LED demo ?

Art

Dennis,
Did you see the JVC 4k with 4k material?

Wow. Another current starved amp. Any amp that doesn`t double its wattage as the load is halved or come very close to doing so has no place in any truly high end HT system.

I have nothing against the south. Cedia believes its selection of Atlanta was a significant factorin the 2009 Expo attendence. At least that was what was reported to me. There was a believe that many west coasters had nodesire to travel to Atlanta. I think the economy had more todowith it with a cyclic effect,exhibitirs not showing causing less attendees.


My point re Texas.I think few people around the country few Houston or Dallas as a place they realy want to visit. Houston? Now I think San Antonio might be a decent location. Orlando In FL OK too.


Find good convention cities is not easy.Some because of the unions make exhibiting way to expensive. Pity. Vegas, Chicago, NYC. All out.


A city must have a good airport, lots of reasonable cost hotel space, decent restaurants, some other reason for visiting it, yada yada. Plus it must have a large convention hall that is available.

Not an easy thing to find. I dread Cedia when it goes back to Indianapolis.

I really liked Denver as a location for a variety of reasons.

I thought I would bring this over here instead of keeping it in Peter's thread.

If Cedia believes that Atlanta was the cause of poor attendance, then I would suggest they sign up for an economics class. The other shoe dropped this year with regards to mortgages. I bet that a lot of people that were planning HTs (probably a lot on this forum, as well) realized that it won't be happening this year. I mentioned to a couple of people that Saturday it looked kind of low, but everyone said it didn't look to bad.

As for location, I agree it is difficult to find a place. I mentioned that I thought South Beach would be great, if they did it in October. Unfortunately, it is a hump. San Antonio wouldn't be bad. The funny thing about extra curricular activities is that I didn't see anyone with the time to do anything. Darin was going to try to go to the Coke museum, but ran out of time.

Anyway, I think it is going to be awhile before Cedia attendance rises back to the heyday of the middle part of the decade.

Art:

58' x 105" 120" diagonal

Eric ... not at the show. Previously.

During the show itself there is little extra time. But one can arrive a few days early and see some sights and Sunday the show is deserted leaving Sunday as a nice sight seeing day. In Denver, I often came in four to six days early and headed with my wife to Western Colorado. She went home on Weds and I stayed for the show. I could just say, honey lets go to Atlanta 6 days early. Yea right.

Don't knock Atlanta, I thought it was a fine city. Missed you Mark.

http://www.digitalconnection.com/kei/images/cedia09.jpg

Mark, Stacy, Jerry, Ken, Itai, Kei, Eric, and Darin. (I edited off 2 lbs. for you Eric).

And Jerry Springer upper left.

Don't knock Atlanta, I thought it was a fine city. Missed you Mark.

http://www.digitalconnection.com/kei/images/cedia09.jpg

Mark, Stacy, Jerry, Ken, Itai, Kei, Eric, and Darin. (I edited off 2 lbs. for you Eric).


Too bad, looks like my friends had a good time without me.:(

My professional seminar sponsored by my study group just took presidence. The good news is that worked out well and it freed up Saturday afternoon for me to take Tyrus to the Michigan Notre Dame game .

Art

Yep, missed you Art, and Mark H.

Here's table 2:

http://www.companypostoffice.com/scott/cedia09/dinner1.JPG
Scott, Itai, Mark, Ruben, Ray, and Peter. Ms. Cathy taking the pictures..

Ken, here's that photo of Mr. Springer you wanted a copy of... sitting behind Kei. Didn't come out very well, but here it is..

http://www.companypostoffice.com/scott/cedia09/jspringer.JPG

Cheers,
Scott

Oops. Here's a little better shot I missed on the camera....
http://www.companypostoffice.com/scott/cedia09/jspringer2.JPG

Looks like a beautiful restaurant. How was the food ?

Art

Honestly. I have nothing against Atlanta.I was planning on attending until a medical emergency prevented me from attending. If its in Atlanta next year, I`ll attend and come a day early to sight see. I can fly in on a single or twin engine and flight time is less than 3 hours each way even with a the slower single engine. A commmercial flight is 50 to $100 and takes a little over one hour. What`s not to like? But Atlanta is no draw for west coasters and attendence next year won`t be much better than this year.

Looks like a beautiful restaurant. How was the food ?

ArtIt is in the old Georgian Terrace Hotel (http://www.thegeorgianterrace.com). The hotel is a vintage building, restored very nice. I stayed there a few years ago, my room was furnished with antiques. It's across the street from the classic Fox Theater (http://www.foxtheatre.org/photoGallery.htm):

I can't speak to the food though. I had already eaten at the AVS party, and and another party before that, so we just had drinks and a snack.