Is 15 ampere breaker enough for the home theater equipment in my room?
-Emotiva XPA-5
-Integra DTC-9.8
-Belkin PureAV PF60 power console
-Mirage OMD-28
-Mirage OMD-5
-Energy RC-LCR (Replaced soon with OMD C-2)
-Energy C-2
-JBL E250P which is 250 watt amp soon to be either a JL audio Fathrom 113 or the REL Britannia B1(CANT DECIDE). Primarily music listening but I'm 50/50 for music and movies, but would prefer to lean towards better music.
-Gaming computer, rigged to my system with an 850 psu probably drawing 500 watts.

Since the REL uses 500 watt amp I'm considering using that but I keep hearing rave reviews about the Fathrom 113 but I'm concerned about the 2500 watts rms 'short term' I hear it only uses 800 watts. If that is true Can my breaker support that?

Can someone please help?

Is 15 ampere breaker enough for the home theater equipment in my room?
-Emotiva XPA-5
-Integra DTC-9.8
-Belkin PureAV PF60 power console
-Mirage OMD-28
-Mirage OMD-5
-Energy RC-LCR (Replaced soon with OMD C-2)
-Energy C-2
-JBL E250P which is 250 watt amp soon to be either a JL audio Fathrom 113 or the REL Britannia B1(CANT DECIDE). Primarily music listening but I'm 50/50 for music and movies, but would prefer to lean towards better music.
-Gaming computer, rigged to my system with an 850 psu probably drawing 500 watts.

Since the REL uses 500 watt amp I'm considering using that but I keep hearing rave reviews about the Fathrom 113 but I'm concerned about the 2500 watts rms 'short term' I hear it only uses 800 watts. If that is true Can my breaker support that?

Can someone please help?

I can help you with the answer to your question for about $30. Use the $30 to buy a Kill-a-watt and use it to see what sort of current drain that your system is creating right now. If you can, break it down by individual component. Report your findings back here and we'll go from there.

For nothing, I can tell you that a 15 amp circuit done right won't cause a problem with *any* semi-reasonable home audio system.

as above....but what else is on the 15 amp circuit ? Are you sure it's just your room ? lights ? another ajoining room ?

Why not just run a new dedicated 20A circuit for your A/V gear?

...For nothing, I can tell you that a 15 amp circuit done right won't cause a problem with *any* semi-reasonable home audio system.

I have a 63" Plasma display, a Sherbourn 5 channel amp, NAD preprocessor, Directv HD DVR, Rega tt, phono pre-amp, Nintendo WI, BD player, AV123 MFW-15 sub, lights, and Precor eliptical machine all on a single 15 amp circuit. Never tripped a breaker in 10 years. I had an electrcian come in to give me an estimate for a dedicated 20 amp circuit and they said if I wasn't have any issues with it the way it was, then don't worry. Basically they said if it aint broke no need to fix it. :)

... all on a single 15 amp circuit.
Single or dedicated? That could make a difference. Also take into consideration that when "sharing" the circuit with dimmers, CFL's or perhaps appliances, you could introduce nasty stuff.

Either way... 15 or 20 amps, whatever it takes. ;)
But, I really am a "pro-dedicated" AC circuit for A/V gear. It can save you a lot of potential headaches down the road.

All one can do is try it (the existing circuit) and see what happens. If you have problems, you now know what to do. :D

But if I run a new 20A circuit won't it cost >$500 just to have an electrician rewire?

I also have another computer but i dont run it simulatenously with my other comp i use it to study off of, and i also have a printer, 28" lcd monitor, External harddrive, a standup fan, the lights in my room are controlled by a dimmer switch, and theres bathroom lights in the bathroom next to me, also a carbon monoxide detector, and a smoke detector.

But if I run a new 20A circuit won't it cost >$500 just to have an electrician rewire?

I also have another computer but i dont run it simulatenously with my other comp i use it to study off of, and i also have a printer, 28" lcd monitor, External harddrive, a standup fan, the lights in my room are controlled by a dimmer switch, and theres bathroom lights in the bathroom next to me, also a carbon monoxide detector, and a smoke detector.

Get some quotes and find out!


I would say that you should not have EVERYTHING on ONE 15 amp circuit.

But if I run a new 20A circuit won't it cost >$500 just to have an electrician rewire?

He won't have to "rewire" at all. Run a new circuit. Just gang two duplex outlets, box, wallplate, xx feet of 12/2 romex and a 20 amp breaker. Materials shouldn't be much more than $75. Labor is tough to judge, but >$500 sounds a bit high to me. I could be wrong...

I agree with the dedicated 20A circuit. You really don't know what else is run on the same circuit as your equipment receptacle, so as Ratman stated, just have an electrician run a new wire from the circuit panel. You can then use the existing 15A circuit for the ancillary equipment such as the computer.

All one can do is try it (the existing circuit) and see what happens. If you have problems, you now know what to do.

Best advice so far, IMO.

I try... :)

He won't have to "rewire" at all. Run a new circuit. Just gang two duplex outlets, box, wallplate, xx feet of 12/2 romex and a 20 amp breaker. Materials shouldn't be much more than $75. Labor is tough to judge, but >$500 sounds a bit high to me. I could be wrong...

yea, way too high, unless the electrician's kid has college tuition due... :p

assuming that it's not an impossible run, a capable electrician ought to be able to do it in about an hour...

...assuming that it's not an impossible run, a capable electrician ought to be able to do it in about an hour...
And, I forgot to add, that a load center breaker space is available to add the 20A circuit. Otherwise, the electrician will need to ferret out runs, and junction what is available to free up a space, or add a sub-panel...something you may not want to get into.

That's why we get estimates. :)
(Or for those that are technically inclined... do it ourselves.)

And, I forgot to add, that a load center breaker space is available to add the 20A circuit. Otherwise, the electrician will need to ferret out runs, and junction what is available to free up a space, or add a sub-panel...something you may not want to get into.

yes, true... if the breaker box is maxed out, that turns into more work... easy enough to find out by going and looking though...

That's why we get estimates. :)
(Or for those that are technically inclined... do it ourselves.)

true dat... and again, an estimate is something that a competent electrician should have no problem providing...

cool... does that mean i can call on you next time i need one? ;) :p

cool... does that mean i can call on you next time i need one?

Nope. :p
One oops (not being licensed or insured) and my kids lose their inheritance after you try to sue my arse. :D

EDIT upon a re-read:
... an estimate is something that a competent electrician should have no problem providing.
Incompetent "electricians" also provide estimates. ;)

Wow awesome, thanks a lot. My friends' friend is an electrician, he said he will come have a look.

So pretty much a 20 amp circuit dedicated for my HT and the existing 15 amp circuit for everything else, right?

It would be a good idea to actually figure out what capacity you might need...

Look at the back of each piece of equipment with a power cord. Add up the watts on the rating plate. Divide by 125. That is the maximum number of amps that your equipment will ever draw (ignoring inrush current). Add to that whatever else is on the circuit and go from there...

Wow awesome, thanks a lot. My friends' friend is an electrician, he said he will come have a look.

So pretty much a 20 amp circuit dedicated for my HT and the existing 15 amp circuit for everything else, right?

Yes!

Your equipment listed above will not trip that 20 amp circuit ever!

Friends of friends that have a trade can sometimes do the work off hours, charge for materials at cost and would be more than happy to get cash and some beers for their efforts.

With a dedicated circuit for A/V gear:
1) with 20A, no concerns with existing gear or any additions in the future.
2) isolates (as best as possible) all A/V gear from potential interference/noise from other electrical stuff in the home.

As Ron Popeil would say, "set it and forget it". ;)

On a side note:
My neighbor just had a "friend of a friend" (licenced electrician) run a new 220 circuit for his daugter's new dryer. Took one hour and said, "no charge". Of course, my neighbor did encourage him to take monetary compensation as well as a pair of tickets (good seats too!) to a Phillies game. What goes around... comes around.

Another skinny, if you do run a 20 amp dedicated line to your setup

Sometimes the path from the main panel to the destination is so convoluted ,

1) one can run the 220 line through pipe on the walls in the garage, come out of the house and continue the run underground and then back through a wall to the destination room.

2) Other times you can get lucky and go through the attic and then to the destination.

3) Other times you can do a combination of 1 and 2 above.

I've dealt with many electricians over the years and they can get very

uncooperative when dealing with a home owner. As soon as they see

something different I've seen them balk and say the job in impossible. That's

BS and time to find another electrician with the right cooperative attitude.

The real sad part of the story is many if not most people unless they are

knowledgeable give up and stick with the status Quo.

Even friends may try to beg off for dubious reasons because after seeing the

job and the difficulties involved, they may start thinking, this is a lot of work to do for free or next to nothing.

The guy better be a very good friend and you shouldn't hesitate to jump in and help!

No need to make this discussion convoluted. It's as simple as getting someone to take a look and see what work is involved. May be simple, may be difficult. Then, you go from there.

Also... can you lose the "double spacing"? ;)

If you do end up having an electrician run new wire no sense just getting one 20a circuit. If there's room in the box might as well make it two so if you expand your interests in the future you'll never have to worry about it.

The cost of two circuits over one would be minimal.

Two 20A circuits in the same room is like killing a turtle with a hand grenade. Wa-a-a-ay overkill. And... he already has an existing 15A circuit for any "non-AV" peripherals.

They must be growing some good weed west of the Rockies. :)

No need to make this discussion convoluted. It's as simple as getting someone to take a look and see what work is involved. May be simple, may be difficult. Then, you go from there.

Also... can you lose the "double spacing"? ;)

OK Boss :rolleyes:

concerned about the 2500 watts rms 'short term'
Short term energies are drawn from large capacitors.

...Also... can you lose the "double spacing"? ;)
And the "carriage returns" at the end of the line. There's no reason to hit that key, this message board has word wrap!

Two 20A circuits in the same room is like killing a turtle with a hand grenade....
Not necessarily true if you have a higher end HT setup with large output power to subwoofer arrays such as PennGray or others. Granted, for the OP here, that is definitely "over armed".

OK Boss :rolleyes:
Thanks Pops.:p

Wow, you can thank people now on the forum. So, the first guy I thank is Ratman cuz I felt like it :)

thank YOU chu gai...

I feel just like Sally Field!
"You like me! You really like me!!!"

If you do end up having an electrician run new wire no sense just getting one 20a circuit. If there's room in the box might as well make it two so if you expand your interests in the future you'll never have to worry about it.

The cost of two circuits over one would be minimal.
Believe me, I never shy away from overkill, but that would be waaaay overkill;)

I have a dedicated 20A with the following:
(4) LCD TVs ((1)42", (2)35", (1)23")
500W receiver
300W receiver
250W sub
(2) sat receivers
DVD player
Computer
Tivo
DVD recorder
Autopatch matrix
MediaMVP
...and I'm sure I'm missing some things, but under full load (not remember exact numbers) I know I draw 9-10A as measured via kill-a-watt.

Actually the weed out here is wicked good. Much better then midwest and east coast.

But I dont smoke weed lol.

I'm thinking of purchasing 2 JL audio Fathom F110s, my local home theater shop will give them to me for $2000 total, because I referred 3 clients to him that bought some top end systems. If you refer 3 or more clients that purchase $4k or more in equipment you get 50% off on your next purchase, so yeah, I'm thinking of either that or 2 JL audio Fathrom F113s. Also adding in 1 more pair of speakers to go 7.2 and using a Emotiva XPA-2 amp to run my mains. Would the 20amp breaker support that?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69779.0

They took my thanks away :(

I would assume that:
1) it's useless
2) it got abused

But... thanks!

I read in another section where Bott introduced it as a hack to the current program. But it took up a lot of real estate and since he didn't have time to work on the coding, he decided to drop it. But you can be sure that when it comes back, I'll just keep thanking you. And people think I'm a prick!

And people think I'm a prick!

ROTFLMAO!
There are a lot more than you and I that have earned that badge. :D

You gonna pay a visit to Quaddafi or however it's spelled in Englewood? Hang out in his tent? I hear he travels around with 40 very very attractive and armed female body guards and they ain't wearing bhourkas.

You gonna pay a visit to Quaddafi or however it's spelled in Englewood? Hang out in his tent? I hear he travels around with 40 very very attractive and armed female body guards and they ain't wearing bhourkas.

Pass. Aren't some of those Middle East ladies less than maintained body hair wise?

Plus any woman who wants to be around that ugly sumbitch ain't what I would want.

If I get a pic of 'em I'll post it. As to ugly, that reminds me of when Nixon & Kissinger went to China and Kissinger was asked how he, a rather ugly man was able to have such attractive women by his side. He replied that power is an aphrodysiac.

Aren't some of those Middle East ladies less than maintained body hair wise?

Aren't most North American men less than maintained body hair wise? (Other than a shaved head to cover up male pattern baldness... which is stylish/acceptable today and not tomorrow?)

How many "manscapers" out there that shave their arses, chests and backs. :D

ROTFLMAO!
There are a lot more than you and I that have earned that badge. :D

um.....me ! :D

Pass. Aren't some of those Middle East ladies less than maintained body hair wise?

Plus any woman who wants to be around that ugly sumbitch ain't what I would want.

Some yes, some NO!!! You have to visit Dubai to understand what Im saying. ;)

http://lisawallerrogers.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/qaddafibodyguard.jpg

You have the PF60 right? It should tell you on the display how many amps you are pulling. When all my gear is turned on and cranking 85db I'm maybe pulling 5 amps. I have never tripped the breaker. And it's not a dedicated one.

Panny 50" pdp
Outlaw 1070
samsung bdp
velodyne servo sub amp
nakamichi P5-PAII stereo amp

usually only pulls 4.5-4.7 amps according to the PF60.

1 Turn on entire system
2 Crank up said system to earschplittenloudenboomer level
3 observe if system continues to operate
4 deduce that if continues operation undeterred, power supplied to system is sufficient
5 deduce that if operation ceases with possible accompanying strange buzzing, humming or crackling sounds the power supplied is under the required quantity.
5 If system ceases to operate, several options are available.
A. turn down volume to reasonable levels(this preserves hearing, sanity, neighbors, and repair bills)
B Increase electrical power supplied to system to a max of 20amps per circuit
C look into a time payment plan for hearing aids and invest in them early

Question asked and answered.

Aren't most North American men less than maintained body hair wise? (Other than a shaved head to cover up male pattern baldness... which is stylish/acceptable today and not tomorrow?)

How many "manscapers" out there that shave their arses, chests and backs. :D

I said some. ;)

As to your point, there are different standards for women and men. Plus not all men want to look like an Olympic swimmer. Some of us are proud of our hairly chests. BOTOH, if a woman were proud of her hairy chest, or legs or underarms.........:eek:

You can figure 1700 watts for a 15amp curcuit and 2400 watts for a 20 amp curcuit.

You want to shoot for 80% max of amp capacity when figuring out your load calc.

Being it looks like you are getting the bug I would plan on a spare 20amp for future upgrades and 2 dedicated 20 amp for each fathom f110s sub. I would also use a dedicated 20amp for your 5 channel amp,that should be pluged directly into the outlet. This will also cover you if you go to a larger amp down the line and if needed you can convert it to handle 220 40amp needs for large pro audio amps? one more 20amp for the rest that will feed your power conditioner/surge that feeds the rest of your audio/blu-ray/games etc. I would also make all you HR's for your audio IG,meaning isolated ground.

You just need to add a floating ground bar in your panel and this is were you land all your new grounds and jump off of that with an 8gauge ground wire to a new 8ft ground rod that you will need to pond into the ground. If thats not possible you can use a cold water pipe and clamp the ground to it befor it comes into the house.

So 5 dedicated 20amp IG curcuits would be perfect!!!!

Keep in mine just because your breaker is not tripping doesen't mean your curcuit is not overloaded and the wire will heat up to the point were it will melt and catch on fire and burn your house down:eek: Use the guide lines above and you won't need to count on the breaker to save your life. Breakers do go bad and you won't know untill it's to late. Thousands of people die yearly from overloaded curcuits that burn there house down so be safe and remember there only one way to do electrical and thats the right way.

Scott

You have the PF60 right? It should tell you on the display how many amps you are pulling. When all my gear is turned on and cranking 85db I'm maybe pulling 5 amps. I have never tripped the breaker. And it's not a dedicated one.

Panny 50" pdp
Outlaw 1070
samsung bdp
velodyne servo sub amp
nakamichi P5-PAII stereo amp

usually only pulls 4.5-4.7 amps according to the PF60.

YEAH I LOOKED AT THIS, and it said only 4 amps. I have my computer plugged into it, the whole hometheater and my external harddrive and even my LCD monitor and its only says 4-4.2 amps. how is that possible? If thats true then I'm going to buy the Epik Dynasty, I heard that thing smoked a JL audio Fathom f113 from a few friends of mine that did a direct comparison in both music and home theater. Still deciding between that or the REL Brittania B1.

If its only using 4 amps then hell yeah I'm upgrading. My Mirage are really driving my Emotiva XPA-5 hard and my Integra, both run really hot so I bought a cooling system for both, and now they run cool. Since its 3.5 to 6 ohm load its pulling 275-370 watts.

I went ahead and bought some energy efficient light bulbs for my room, hope that helps too. Went from sucking 540 watts down to 135 watts. My lights don't flicker anymore when I turn my equipment on.

EDIT: I'm also running 4 dimmable energy efficient light bulbs, i hear running dimmable bulbs on the same circuit as your hometheater can damage both the HT equipment and the breaker is that true?

You can figure 1700 watts for a 15amp curcuit and 2400 watts for a 20 amp curcuit.

You want to shoot for 80% max of amp capacity when figuring out your load calc.

Being it looks like you are getting the bug I would plan on a spare 20amp for future upgrades and 2 dedicated 20 amp for each fathom f110s sub. I would also use a dedicated 20amp for your 5 channel amp,that should be pluged directly into the outlet. This will also cover you if you go to a larger amp down the line and if needed you can convert it to handle 220 40amp needs for large pro audio amps? one more 20amp for the rest that will feed your power conditioner/surge that feeds the rest of your audio/blu-ray/games etc. I would also make all you HR's for your audio IG,meaning isolated ground.

You just need to add a floating ground bar in your panel and this is were you land all your new grounds and jump off of that with an 8gauge ground wire to a new 8ft ground rod that you will need to pond into the ground. If thats not possible you can use a cold water pipe and clamp the ground to it befor it comes into the house.

So 5 dedicated 20amp IG curcuits would be perfect!!!!

Keep in mine just because your breaker is not tripping doesen't mean your curcuit is not overloaded and the wire will heat up to the point were it will melt and catch on fire and burn your house down:eek: Use the guide lines above and you won't need to count on the breaker to save your life. Breakers do go bad and you won't know untill it's to late. Thousands of people die yearly from overloaded curcuits that burn there house down so be safe and remember there only one way to do electrical and thats the right way.

Scott

That sounds like overkill from what I have read in earlier posts. I think i will just get a 20 amp dedicated circuit running to my PF60 and leave the rest on the 15 amp circuit.

EDIT: I'm also running 4 dimmable energy efficient light bulbs, i hear running dimmable bulbs on the same circuit as your hometheater can damage both the HT equipment and the breaker is that true?
No... you won't damage anything. It just introduces "noise". Get your electrician to check things out.

[QUOTE=riiaku;17132096]

I hear that bulbs on the same circuit as your hometheater can damage both the HT equipment and the breaker is that true?

Man oh man, what will they think of next?

Will CFL's damage breakers or other equipment on the same circuit?

Short answer: no.

Converting major appliances from electric to gas can be an effective way to free up breaker slots if your panel is maxed out. Converting the dryer to gas saves 2 breakers and costs less to run, same with stove and water heater.

Is the panel maxxed out?
If the stove, heater, hot water and dryer are fairly new, would that be cost effective to replace?
Installation of new pipe can be costly. Especially if the home is 100% electric and no gas main to the home.

Why convert major appliances when there are simpler solutions? ;)

Do you work for a gas company? :)

On a couple of lighter loads, install a tandem breaker- 2 breakers in one slot. This is completely legal and done all the time. The expense of retro piping a home for gas FAR outweighs even installing a new panel which is overkill to pick up one or two more breaker spots.

The even simpler solution is...
get a licensed electrician to evaluate.

...Do you work for a gas company? :)
Maybe not, but he is looking for service work!!! :rolleyes:

Florecents are the worse and will inject (EMI) into the line and blow it out your speakers,unless you have a good line conditioner:D

Ya a little over kill is good when it comes to getting every last watt out of your high dollar amps and one of the most inportant parts is haveing clean power to feed all the elecronic toys. Electronics are very sensitive to dirty power. It's one of thoes upgrades to your system that most put off but it should be the first thing you do. Not only for safty reasons but to insure you get the best performance out of you equipment.

I'm a retired journymen electrician so this is just common sence for me. The bottom line is on the back of each piece of equipment you will find the power requirements and thats what you use to figure out the load you can put on a curcuit. I just got done draging 3-30amp and two 20amp curcuits for my system and it's not overkill it's just what was required. You need to look at your equipment and figure out what is needed. Be safe not sorry and use the 125watt equals 1amp rule when figuring out your load and you will be good to go.

If you want list the power requirements for each piese of equipment and I'll help you figure out what you need more accurately and help you split the load up and we can figure out what you need and MAYBE help others.
Scott

4 -30 a and 2- 20a circuits. Question 1: how big a concert hall are you filling? How did you terminate the 30 amp circuits? (Very curious on this answer).

100w=1A (approx)

160 available amps (in a home system?) =16,000watts

This is the amount of power we would order to fill a convention hall sound system requirement.

Florecents are the worse and will inject (EMF) into the line and blow it out your speakers,

Fluorescent lamps don't inject Electromotive Force (measured in Volts) into anything.

Electronics are very sensitive

Only if you have no clue what a DC power supply does.

Be safe not sorry and use the 100watt equals 1amp rule when figuring out your load and you will be good to go.

Or you could be accurate and use Watts law, algebra isn't that hard is it?

I just got done draging 4-30amp and two 20amp curcuits for my system and it's not overkill it's just what was required.

You require 160 Amps?

How did you terminate the 30 amp circuits? (Very curious on this answer).

You could always go with something like a NEMA L5-30P.

You require 160 Amps?

Usually multiple circuits for AV gear are done for the potential reduction in noise on the AC rather than push the total current handling capacity or at least in residential installations.

30 amp curcuits are terminated to R5-30 plugs and feed crest 8200 pro amps:) These amps come with a 30amp power cord with a 30amp twist lock cord cap. Check out northern sound for better details.

Just trying to help out guys:eek:Don't shoot the messenger. I diden't wright the code book.



Scott

30 amp curcuits are terminated to a dryer plugs and feed crest 8200 pro amps:)

That can't possibly meet code. I'm no electrician but that just sounds wrong. I suppose it's probably not quite as dangerous as putting a 110V outlet on a 220V circuit.

Florecents are the worse and will inject (EMF) into the line and blow it out your speakers,unless you have a good line conditioner:D


That has to be a giant joke.

At home, we've got compact fluorescents and regular fluorescents all over the place. Not a click or a pop when they are switched, not a peep out of any audio gear when they run.

At church we have 48 8 foot fluorescents overhead in the sanctuary. We also have over 32 highly sensitive mic lines running 150'. We run 6 stage monitors off an amp stack on stage via 6 more 150' lines. On top of that we have another 48 compact dimmable fluorescents in chandeliers, and another dozen more 500 watt spotlights. See previous comments about absence of clicks pops and noise.



Ya a little over kill is good when it comes to getting every last watt out of your high dollar amps


You will see that the joke is on you if you actually monitor the power going to those big amps. When you play music through amps and not clipping it, you are only running them at 1/10 of their steady-state power capacity or less.


and one of the most inportant parts is haveing clean power to feed all the toys.


Good toys don't pollute the lines, and good toys don't care if the line is a little less than perfect.


Electronics are very sensitive:rolleyes:


Yes, I'm rolling my eyes at someone who overbuilds to this extent and then has zero facts to back up their claims.


It's one of thoes upgrades to your system that most put off but it should be the first thing you do.


Yes having adequate power is important, but you don't need to go as far overboard as you have. I have a 30 amp 230 volt dryer outlet in my lab for testing power amps, but I have also tested many amps to see what sort of power they need to run even just below clipping into tough loudspeaker loads. It is only a tiny fraction of what I see in my steady-state tests that I pulled the dryer circuit to support.


Not only for safty reasons but to insure you get the best performance out of you equipment as possible.


Putting in a dedicated 15 amp circuit for the whole system is one thing, putting in multiple power lines rated for electric dryers is way overboard.


I'm a journymen electrician so this is just common sence for me.


If that's your idea of common sense... Well if you can sell that sort of thinking to your customers, then its money in the bank for you, eh?

I'm an EE but I know code. The power cords on those amps you've connected up to dryer sockets are familiar to me. They aren't code but its what I have to do these days to test power amps for a specific purpose.

Long term residential use of wiring like that is simply not code, and it also provides zero real world performance advantage. You're not a EE so you need not have any experience at all in the area of power needs for audio equipment.


The bottom line is on the back of each piece of equipment you will find the power requirements and thats what you use to figure out the load you can put on a curcuit.


Actually, the nuimbers on the back of each piece of equipment generally signfiicantly overstate the actual power needs of your equipment if you use it to listen to music and you don't clip it out. They are worst case numbers based on usage that generally only happens on the test bench.


That all said, it is unlikely that the power usage numbers on the back of your power amps justify your 30 amp wiring. Name the makes and models and I'll post the manufacturer's specs and you will be proven wrong.

Usually multiple circuits for AV gear are done for the potential reduction in noise on the AC rather than push the total current handling capacity or at least in residential installations.

The only audio gear that is sensitive to the usual amounts of noise on a power line are incompetently designed.

30 amp curcuits are terminated to a dryer plugs and feed crest 8200 pro amps:)


According to the Crest web site, the 8200s draw no more than 15.7 amps at 1/8 power. Since unclipped audio has a crest factor of 10 or more, even 15.7 amps is significantly more power than the amps will draw in actual use.

BTW, the above is for steady state use into 2 ohm resistive loads, which is still far more than one sees in actual use as audio amps. It corresponds to 2250 watts per channel.

http://www.crestaudio.com/assets/images/additional/CFA-8200-AB_4.jpg

shows an IEC320-C19 16A power socket on the back of the 8200. Connecting this to a 30 amp circuit is a violation of the uniform electrical code. Even connecting it to a 20 amp circuit is questionable.

First, as mentioned, it is against code to use a 220 volt dryer outlet on a 120volt device. The L5-30P would be the correct connector. Second, the reason for multiple power feeds to a large array of AV gear is not noise reduction as mentioned, it is primarily to avoid voltage drop/fluctuations caused by heavy and variable loads.
In addition. MBCs (multiwire branch circuits) can be very problematic on this due to the serious variations in loads between phases.

In the professional audio visual presentation field, we will use maybe 5- 20 amp circuits, occasionally 6 for powering the amp stacks used for line arrays in a convention hall. Obviously, for multiple arrays or program material with exceptional dynamics we will use more amps/circuits.

Our projection equipment or anything with xenon light sources is usually put on a separate primary phase/transformer as that does generate substantial noise especially during striking and it can produce a strong RF noise field for several feet around the unit.

The dimmer packs are also not on the audio system power distro.

I just cannot imagine how a home-based system could possibly justify the amount of current suggested.

That can't possibly meet code. I'm no electrician but that just sounds wrong. I suppose it's probably not quite as dangerous as putting a 110V outlet on a 220V circuit.

The Crest amps can be factory-wired for 200-250 volt operation. However, the power socket on the amp is rated at only 16 amps. There is no external power fuse.

Usually multiple circuits for AV gear are done for the potential reduction in noise on the AC rather than push the total current handling capacity or at least in residential installations.

The circuits are all in parallel. There is no isolation unless the breaker has tripped.

I diden't make the code book.

You sure 'diden't' read it either.

Second, the reason for multiple power feeds to a large array of AV gear is not noise reduction as mentioned, it is primarily to avoid voltage drop/fluctuations caused by heavy and variable loads.

Uh, what is noise if not voltage drops or fluctuations away from ideal voltage? Voltage noise does not necessarily have to have some predefined profile, IMO, but is rather any deviation from ideal. Each piece of gear which shares an AC circuit sees noise due to other gears operating current creating voltage due to the shared line impedance.

Usually multiple circuits for AV gear are done for the potential reduction in noise on the AC rather than push the total current handling capacity or at least in residential installations.

The circuits are all in parallel. There is no isolation unless the breaker has tripped.

Sure there is. Parallel loads don't have to share line impedance of the lines to the breaker boxes. Among those that work in the business, isolation is spoken of in terms of its magnitude. Equipment utilizing parallel circuits is isolated by line impedance. A usually fairly small magnitude of isolation to be sure but isolation nonetheless. It can make a difference for gear with less than robust power supply designs.

I diden't make the code book.

You sure 'diden't' read it either.

I did not write this last statement that you have quoted there and put under my name. I'm not sure if you made a mistake or are being puposefully misleading. This is not a quote of something I said. This seems in poor taste even for you.

BTW I have spent plenty of time reading the NEC books.

The only audio gear that is sensitive to the usual amounts of noise on a power line are incompetently designed.

I happen to agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly and yet despite us both the AV gear isolation and filtering industries are thriving. The thing to note here is there is a vast amount of gear on the market which can be noticeably bettered by power conditioning products, ie is incompetently designed by our standards.

I'm The Wiz! Nobody beats The Wiz. :D

The Crest amps can be factory-wired for 200-250 volt operation. However, the power socket on the amp is rated at only 16 amps. There is no external power fuse.

I believe this amp model sold into US markets are all wired for 110V. Unless this guy is running imported Euro models, not impossible but a bit unlikely, something still sounds fishy.

I did not write this last statement that you have quoted there and put under my name. I'm not sure if you made a mistake or are being puposefully misleading. This is not a quote of something I said. This seems in poor taste even for you.


You're a sensitive little snowflake aren't you?
I didn't attribute the quote to you, sorry, but you're not always the center of attention.

This seems in poor taste even for you.


This constant whining is pathetic, even for you.

There are several types of electrical noise that are NOT primary voltage fluctuations. For instance, in the presentation biz, as I mentioned. Xenon lamp power supplies operate at a very high frequency and during the striking sequence, a scope on the primary AC supply will show very strange and non symmetrical wave patterns as an electric arc is being generated. The strike voltage of the lamp will be on the order of between 500 to 1,000 volts and as son as the arc is established the current draw becomes steady. These units use switching power supplies and generate RF fields with component frequencies in the 15khz range. This is not a frequency normally found on a primary power feed. This noise filed is easily induced in adjacent equipment.

When we use different transformers (feeders)for lighting and audio, the neutrals are not the same as the neutral is derived from the CT of the transformer secondary and is NOT common to another transformer. The primary phase legs on a three phase feed are also not tied to the secondary neutral anywhere so there is no common tie point between transformers.
This is how we avoid the noise issue.

Also modern TRIAC dimmers do not generate the noise factor on the neutral that SCR dimmers do. This noise can easily be heard in many poorly designed power supplies of sound reproduction gear. It ranges from a slight buzz to a high pitched whine. We eliminate this by using totally isolated transformers.

You're a sensitive little snowflake aren't you?
I didn't attribute the quote to you, sorry, but you're not always the center of attention.



This constant whining is pathetic, even for you.

Mmmhmm. Putting my name above the quote isn't attributing it to me? Weaslyness in it's extreme going on up in here. You are a real work of genius and integrity.

There are several types of electrical noise that are NOT primary voltage fluctuations. For instance, in the presentation biz, as I mentioned. Xenon lamp power supplies operate at a very high frequency and during the striking sequence, a scope on the primary AC supply will show very strange and non symmetrical wave patterns as an electric arc is being generated. The strike voltage of the lamp will be on the order of between 500 to 1,000 volts and as son as the arc is established the current draw becomes steady. These units use switching power supplies and generate RF fields with component frequencies in the 15khz range. This is not a frequency normally found on a primary power feed. This noise filed is easily induced in adjacent equipment.

When we use different transformers (feeders)for lighting and audio, the neutrals are not the same as the neutral is derived from the CT of the transformer secondary and is NOT common to another transformer. The primary phase legs on a three phase feed are also not tied to the secondary neutral anywhere so there is no common tie point between transformers.
This is how we avoid the noise issue.

Also modern TRIAC dimmers do not generate the noise factor on the neutral that SCR dimmers do. This noise can easily be heard in many poorly designed power supplies of sound reproduction gear. It ranges from a slight buzz to a high pitched whine. We eliminate this by using totally isolated transformers.

Don't get me wrong, I can definitely see the value in distinguishing the various noise profiles as clues in how to eliminate the noise.

...This constant whining is pathetic, even for you.

...You are a real work of genius and integrity.
Calm down children, you are ruining a good thread, and disobeying Forum rules by attacking one another!

I happen to agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly


It's not a sentiment. It's the natural order of things.


and yet despite us both the AV gear isolation and filtering industries are thriving.


A testimonial to "hope springs eternal".


The thing to note here is there is a vast amount of gear on the market which can be noticeably bettered by power conditioning products, ie is incompetently designed by our standards.

I doubt that. I think that there is a perception that equipment is being bettered when in fact the owner is just being ripped off by hype.

Putting my name above the quote isn't attributing it to me?

Your name's not above the quote in question, get over it, whiner.

^^ How come every thread you participate in goes to hell complete with insults and other childish behavior?

I doubt that. I think that there is a perception that equipment is being bettered when in fact the owner is just being ripped off by hype.

Spoken like a true American spoiled with reasonably high quality utility power. ;)

Since all gear will be sensitive to it's supply power quality at some level, I guess it all depends on the definition of "the usual amounts of noise on a power line" whether a given noise profile will produce audible artifacts. Well, that and how well the user in question is capable of hearing.

I know my father, for example, who lives in Malawi definitely hears it when his power feed takes it's nearly periodic and nearly consistently daily trip to 0V for hours at a time. Filtering of this "normal" amount of noise , while possible, would be way to expensive to be justified for what my father is trying to accomplish even though the effect is quite audible.

It is also quite possible that the AC supply is coming through poor grade transformer with overloaded windings and no voltage clamping on the primaries. In addition, the power supplied may be chopped sine wave, pseudo sine wave, non frequency regulated, and with substandard phase balancing and neutral to ground connections may be seriously lacking in connective integrity.

I wonder if the OP has evaluated/tested his electrical requirements. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwHWbsvgQUE

You could always go with something like a NEMA L5-30P.

When I pulled my 30 amp circuit, I realized that by pulling 33% more copper, I could obtain 100% more power. This is not just a theoretical answer, as there are readily-available power amps that plug directly into 120 or 240 volt volt power and take what they can get.

[QUOTE=riiaku;17132096]

I hear that bulbs on the same circuit as your hometheater can damage both the HT equipment and the breaker is that true?

Man oh man, what will they think of next?

Will CFL's damage breakers or other equipment on the same circuit?

Short answer: no.

little late man, ratman answered it. But thanks anyways.

Ratman seems to be one of the few people to provide the no nonsense advice. I'll just get my electrician friend out here, and check it out. Running a 20 amp dedicated circuit seems like the best thing to do.

Thank you for the recognition. :)

Right. All you need is an additional 20 amp circuit. Leave all your low draw items -- everything except the various amps -- on the 15 and put all the power/sub amps on the 20.

The sonic benefit from this will be slight, and occur on bass peaks where the sudden impedance drop of all your amp output stages simultaneously can cause a very brief voltage sag on the power line. The filter caps in your amps are supposed to store enough electrons to cover this, but many manufacturers are not overly generous with the relatively expensive large capacitors, and many sub amps have caps about the size of the end of your thumb -- way too small.

While the electrician is there, have them take a look at the clamps connecting your ground wires to the ground rod. These clamps corrode, and wires get knocked loose by mowers. A good ground connection is key to reduced RF noise and surge protection.

Leave all your low draw items -- everything except the various amps -- on the 15 and put all the power/sub amps on the 20.
Why? That defeats the purpose of "dedication" (isolation) for A/V gear.

While the electrician is there, have them take a look at the clamps connecting your ground wires to the ground rod.
That is good advice.

I took his comment to mean a dedicated 15A line to power the various players, and a 20A dedicated to the amps. His "low draw" term leaves some interpretation.

I was thinking that he meant powering low draw gear with the existing 15a circuit powering everything in the room.....lights and what have you.

If thats the case then Ratman is correct.

Eggzackly...

Oh, by the way I talked to a friend of mine recently. He's an industrial electrician, works on big oil refineries, skyscrapers, etc... He used to do houses a long time ago but told me, that the rated specs are usually never achieved. He told me to buy a clamp meter and find out how much I'm using with everything turned on. He's in Cali for a project so he won't be around for a year.

So far, based on my 5 channel amp and my speakers, my Mirage OMD-28s and OMD C-2 draw between, 300-375 watts each because its ohm impedance is between 3.5 and 6. My rear Energy C-2s are drawing 200 watts each because they are 8ohm loads. Then I have my Integra DTC-9.8, which I'm not sure how much and then my subwoofer which draws 250 watts rms, but probably much lower seeing as how I only play low-medium volumes. Then I have my gaming computer with an 850 watt psu but I assume its only drawing 500 watts max, then my printer, 28" lcd monitor, alarm clock, Ott-lite, Belkin PF60, and then I have 9x 15 watt cfl bulbs in my room, walk in closet and bathroom.

Do I have to get an electrician to rewire or can I just throw in a 40amp breaker and be done with it?

I was doing some gaming and checked the amps and the max it hit was 5 amps. Am i reading it right or what? thats 5.1 running with my gaming system and intense gaming session so how is this possible? Should I go ahead and purchase the Epik Dynasty? Because I dont think its using much power.

The OP will be in the market for some hearing aids soon as well.

Do I have to get an electrician to rewire or can I just throw in a 40amp breaker and be done with it?

For a 20A circuit you must use 12/2. Typically, 15A circuits use 14/2. To add a dedicated circuit, you have to run new wire.

As for the breaker... absolutely NOT!

Go buy and install your Epik Dynasty. If you have problems, get an electrician. (Many will provide free estimates.)

Yeah, just throw in the breaker, and then get out the sticks and marshmallows, create some Smores, and wait for the fire trucks to get there! Seriously, don't mess with that if you need to ask that question. Get a pro to do the work for you and remain safe. Electricity is not something to mess with if you are learning on the job.

It is also quite possible that the AC supply is coming through poor grade transformer with overloaded windings and no voltage clamping on the primaries. In addition, the power supplied may be chopped sine wave, pseudo sine wave, non frequency regulated, and with substandard phase balancing and neutral to ground connections may be seriously lacking in connective integrity.

In which third or fourth world country might this be a reasonable possiblity?

In which third or fourth world country might this be a reasonable possiblity?

I've not been there myself and so can only guess about what sins have been committed. My father isn't capable of analyzing the system even at a basic level. I would expect any and all things wrong based on the descriptions of how this government gets "run".

In which third or fourth world country might this be a reasonable possiblity?Any place serviced by Florida Power & Light.

I've not been there myself and so can only guess about what sins have been committed. My father isn't capable of analyzing the system even at a basic level. I would expect any and all things wrong based on the descriptions of how this government gets "run".

Your state commerce commission should be involved in making sure that consumers are supplied with reasonably acceptable power. If you have problems with the supply, contact the utility and the state commerce commission.

I was doing some gaming and checked the amps and the max it hit was 5 amps. Am i reading it right or what? thats 5.1 running with my gaming system and intense gaming session so how is this possible? Should I go ahead and purchase the Epik Dynasty? Because I dont think its using much power.

Yes, you are reading it correctly especially since you applied the speaker power draws incorrectly;):D

Does this seem like a good idea:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=94682-82364-BR1520&lpage=none

or

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=151343-82364-CHNT2020&lpage=none

or 2 of these

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=292487-82364-CH120CAFCS&lpage=none

Please contact an eletrician.

Oh, by the way I talked to a friend of mine recently. He's an industrial electrician, works on big oil refineries, skyscrapers, etc... He used to do houses a long time ago but told me, that the rated specs are usually never achieved. He told me to buy a clamp meter and find out how much I'm using with everything turned on. He's in Cali for a project so he won't be around for a year.

So far, based on my 5 channel amp and my speakers, my Mirage OMD-28s and OMD C-2 draw between, 300-375 watts each because its ohm impedance is between 3.5 and 6. My rear Energy C-2s are drawing 200 watts each because they are 8ohm loads. Then I have my Integra DTC-9.8, which I'm not sure how much and then my subwoofer which draws 250 watts rms, but probably much lower seeing as how I only play low-medium volumes. Then I have my gaming computer with an 850 watt psu but I assume its only drawing 500 watts max, then my printer, 28" lcd monitor, alarm clock, Ott-lite, Belkin PF60, and then I have 9x 15 watt cfl bulbs in my room, walk in closet and bathroom.

You really want to know, get a Kill A Watt meter for $35. I did.

My receiver draws under 200 watts of power at any volume I am going to listen to. I forget the exact number, but probably quite a bit less than 200 watts.