I've heard he's a really reliable source too...

Super_Secret (http://forums.n4g.com/showprofile.aspx?memid=62638)

I promised you all an update on Cross-Game chat, so here it is.

And you're not going to like it.


As I told you before, Cross-game voice chat has been in the works for a while now. I mentioned last time that it was on target for 3.0 providing that we didn't hit any snags. Well guess what, we hit a snag! An all too familiar snag.

Time for a history lesson.

How many of you remember what it was like before FW 2.4? That's right - no in-game XMB. No custom soundtracks. In-game XMB was the most heavily requested feature at the time and we worked tirelessly in order to get it in (By "we", I mean Sony Japan - as I said before, FW isn't my department). It very nearly didn't happen, you have no idea how difficult it is to backport a feature like that onto a system (the game) that doesn't even know its there, but somehow we managed it. Well, for most titles. There are still the odd few titles out there that don't support in-game XMB ("black" titles).
Custom soundtracks was another one we had working in nearly every title. Obviously it was never going to work in black titles, but about 95% of the titles that worked well with the in-game XMB, had custom sountracks working as well.

So what happened? Why is it that titles HAVE to be developed specifically with custom soundtrack support when it was working more or less just fine?

Is it because Microsoft owns the patent on custom soundtracks in games?

This is something that makes me laugh every time I see one of the less educated ones spouting it off. That's an absolute fabrication. Patents don't matter, Sony as a while infringes upon thousands of patents through the whole company, both hardware and software. If you infringe a patent, you pay royalties to the owner or find a different way of doing the same thing that doesn't infringe. That's it. Microsoft infringes upon all kinds of patents we own but that's up to legal to sort out.

No, the reason we had to drop Custom soundtrack support like that has nothing to do with Microsoft. It does, however, involve a different company. A rather large company.
You see, one of their games happened to fall into the 5% that didn't support in-game custom soundtracks. And they did not like this.
When they found out that a new firmware update was going to suddenly make one of their games look inferior to just about every other game released, they protested. A lot.
They threatened everything, from legal action to dropping support for the PS3 all together.

What could we do? There was almost no way of getting it to work correctly due to the way their game was made (i.e. Poorly) and we certainly couldn't leave a broken implementation in there. That's when the hard decision was made to remove all support for older titles and instead adopt the "opt-in" approach that, to this day, most developers simply ignore. I have to hand this to Microsoft - they did their system right from the beginning and by completely separating it from the developers, they have universal support. Its very unlikely that you'll ever see mandatory support for custom soundtracks in games on our system, I'm afraid.
So yeah, lets nail this on the head: The next time someone starts blaming Microsoft for something the PS3 doesn't have, tell them they're an idiot, they don't know what they're talking about. Are we clear on this? This is a pet peeve of mine because while everyone's happy to go around blaming Microsoft, the real culprits are getting off scott-free. Of course, I can't actually name them directly or, should I get caught, I might even get done for slander (you can never be too careful), but you can figure it out - it's not Activision and they have a poor history with the PS3.

So what has this got to do with Cross-game voice chat?

Guess.

I warned you that we might hit a snag and we did. We've found a couple of titles that just don't like it. Similar to the custom soundtrack fiasco, it can cause lag, crashes, desyncronisation (very very bad when this happens), you name it. It can't be used in these games and it just so happens that some of these games are owned by the same company I've been talking about above.
So we're in a predicament: Cross-game chat is useless if only certain games support it. It's not too bad if its just the odd one that doesn't like it, but at this rate we'd have to drop support for the ENTIRE back catalogue, which would (As I said) make the whole thing useless.
Furthermore, we can't rely on developers to implement direct support for it. It didn't work with Custom Soundtracks, so why would it work here?
So right now, we're trying every little trick in the book to find a solution that works for everyone, but don't hold your breath on this one, so far it looks like the best you're going to get is a gimped implementation of it that only works with a handful of new games.

Now as I said, FW isn't actually my department and even I'm not supposed to know some of this stuff, but this is actually where we are right now. It sucks majorly, but there you have it. Depending on the end result, it could come in FW 3.1 or it could come in FW 4.0, hell it might not even come at all but rest assured they are working very hard on it. And if it doesn't come, you know who to blame.

As I said in the 3.0 Firmware thread -
From what S_S said there are certain games that don't work with in-game XMB. Lets figure out which ones those are. EA says it's a big deal if some of their older games don't work with it. Lets figure out which ones it could be, both to see if what this guy is saying is correct and to see if EA has a valid point about not wanting those games to look bad.

...

No.

Sorry, I didn't see this was being discussed in the 3.0 thread...

Mods you can lock, or if it's ok that this would be a better area than the 3.0 thread to discuss this..

If I knew this was true I wouldn't be buying anymore EA games, that's for sure. I don't feel bad about ripping them off and buying 30 10 dollar gift cards for 5 bucks a piece during that Best Buy promotion and then coning them out of 60 dollars worth of coupon codes when their website didn't work right now. Since I'm getting/got Maddon 10, NHL 10, dante's inferno, dragon age: origins, mass effect 2, and brutal legend all on day 1 for half price I'll have to start the boycott sometime next year.

it's ea, you know it. ea is a garbage company that only cares about money. look at the new madden. they had tons of community involvement, weekly blogs highlighting the development process, and what? the game is still a buggy piece of crap. i'm so glad that they only rarely come out with a game worth buying. actually, the only ea labeled games i have are burnout and skate 2.

It shouldn't be locked for being in the wrong thread. It should be locked for leading to the inevitable bickering that's about to start shortly. It should also be locked for concluding EA is the culprit. It should also be locked because the post you're linking to is obviously rumor-mongering, ****-stirring tripe linked from N4G. It may be true, but that doesn't mean its aim isn't to stir up trouble.

Worse, based on this rumor, I'm not sure why you'd conclude it's EA. Quite a few games don't support in-game XMB from various big publishers other than Activision and EA. Capcom, Ubisoft, Sega, Midway (now defunct) also have games that don't support in-game XMB. No reason (yet) to jump to conclusions.

This thread can only lead to heartache, strife, and endless ********.

It shouldn't be locked for being in the wrong thread. It should be locked for leading to the inevitable bickering that's about to start shortly. It should also be locked for concluding EA is the culprit. It should also be locked because the post you're linking to is obviously rumor-mongering, ****-stirring tripe linked from N4G. It may be true, but that doesn't mean its aim isn't to stir up trouble.

Worse, based on this rumor, I'm not sure why you'd conclude it's EA. Quite a few games don't support in-game XMB from various big publishers other than Activision and EA. Capcom, Ubisoft, Sega, Midway (now defunct) also have games that don't support in-game XMB. No reason (yet) to jump to conclusions.

This thread can only lead to heartache, strife, and endless ********.

I wasn't actually saying I was gonna boycott them, but its pretty messed up if a software company can muscle Sony into fcking it's customers. I could see this thread leading to strife and endless ********, but heartache? We're all adults here :P

It shouldn't be locked for being in the wrong thread. It should be locked for leading to the inevitable bickering that's about to start shortly. It should also be locked for concluding EA is the culprit. It should also be locked because the post you're linking to is obviously rumor-mongering, ****-stirring tripe linked from N4G. It may be true, but that doesn't mean its aim isn't to stir up trouble.

Worse, based on this rumor, I'm not sure why you'd conclude it's EA. Quite a few games don't support in-game XMB from various big publishers other than Activision and EA. Capcom, Ubisoft, Sega, Midway (now defunct) also have games that don't support in-game XMB. No reason (yet) to jump to conclusions.

This thread can only lead to heartache, strife, and endless ********.

:eek::confused:

I know I'm such a troll. You caught me.

:eek::confused:

I know I'm such a troll. You caught me.

No, I'm the troll ask anyone. I had the audacity to mention in another thread that blu-ray drives are slower than DVD drive and suggest optional HD installs could make up for the difference. I'm the king troll.

I wasn't actually saying I was gonna boycott them, but its pretty messed up if a software company can muscle Sony into fcking it's customers. I could see this thread leading to strife and endless ********, but heartache? We're all adults here :P

How is it EA's fault that Sony was so short sighted as to NOT include these features before launch? Sony took the reckless attitude that they'd patch in the functionality later and now it is only their own fault they can't get it to work in all games from the last 3 years. So sorry, too bad. In this case I WOULD take EA's side, assuming it is EA that is holding them up. Sony was in too much of a hurry to shove Bluray & media center capabilities down the publics throat that they skimped on forethought into what gamers might want/appreciate/pay for. Then they came to the game over a year late and still have the most expensive system on the market.

Oh, but the PS3 can play Bluray discs.... (<--dripping with sarcasm).

Given the choice, I would take blu-ray over cross-game voice chat & custom soundtracks anyday.

Given the choice, I would take blu-ray over cross-game voice chat & custom soundtracks anyday.+1. I've never really understood why we'd need to talk to folks that aren't in the same game we are in anyway... Isn't that why God made cell phones?

How is it EA's fault that Sony was so short sighted as to NOT include these features before launch? Sony took the reckless attitude that they'd patch in the functionality later and now it is only their own fault they can't get it to work in all games from the last 3 years. So sorry, too bad. In this case I WOULD take EA's side, assuming it is EA that is holding them up. Sony was in too much of a hurry to shove Bluray & media center capabilities down the publics throat that they skimped on forethought into what gamers might want/appreciate/pay for. Then they came to the game over a year late and still have the most expensive system on the market.

Oh, but the PS3 can play Bluray discs.... (<--dripping with sarcasm).

See? This is a real troll. Noone could reasonably think its a good thing that a single software developer can cause reduced functionality for every person who bought a Playstation 3 unless they had some type of psychotic need for the Xbox 360 to be a better system.

And another thing, I doubt buy this whole "article". If EA threatened to pull support for the PS3 over this its a complete bluff. EA would lose massive amounts of revenue in an idiotic move like that, whatever you want to say about the PS3 they have plenty of units out there to sell software on. I can't imagine their shareholders standing for that type of stupidity.

Sony shoulda called them on it and just released the patch, if it is true.

+1. I've never really understood why we'd need to talk to folks that aren't in the same game we are in anyway... Isn't that why God made cell phones?

Cross-game voice chat I couldn't care less about. Custom soundtracks are another story though. I've got about 75 gigs of music sitting on my PS3 just waiting for this feature! Come on Sony, make it happen!

Universal in game music is far more appealing (to me) than cross game voice chat. If you're playing one game and your friend's playing another, call him on your cell and put it on speaker phone...or your BLUETOOTH!

Custom soundtracks is a far more useful option, and one that will likely continue to be limited in its implementation.

Ditto, might use it now and then, but I don't play games to sit and gossip on what happened in HS today while we all play different games.

Also, if you talking up a storm (a real convo) and playing a game and winning, congratulations, it's a crappy, mindless FPS. They're about the only ones where you can get away with both and still be good.

+1. I've never really understood why we'd need to talk to folks that aren't in the same game we are in anyway... Isn't that why God made cell phones?

ever try holding your cell phone with your head cocked over while trying to race? or frag someone on a good FPS?

This isnt a make or break feature for me but just last night I was playing COD4 on the 360 and was in a live party with several of my friends that were playing wolfenstein, along with a couple other games..pretty nice feature if you ask me.

Worse, based on this rumor, I'm not sure why you'd conclude it's EA. Quite a few games don't support in-game XMB from various big publishers other than Activision and EA. Capcom, Ubisoft, Sega, Midway (now defunct) also have games that don't support in-game XMB. No reason (yet) to jump to conclusions.

It could also be 2K.

ever try holding your cell phone with your head cocked over while trying to race? or frag someone on a good FPS?

This isnt a make or break feature for me but just last night I was playing COD4 on the 360 and was in a live party with several of my friends that were playing wolfenstein, along with a couple other games..pretty nice feature if you ask me.Regarding holding the phone to your head...as someone mentioned above, you could always use a BT headset or the speaker phone option. Still, I don't see why I'd ever want to use this feature. Maybe I'm too old to want to talk to people in other games. To each his/her own.

I hadn't given the in-game music feature much thought. I have used it in KZ2 a few times, but it distracts me from hearing the sounds in-game...which are useful at times. I guess I'd appreciate it in other games where in-game audio clues aren't there.

See? This is a real troll. Noone could reasonably think its a good thing that a single software developer can cause reduced functionality for every person who bought a Playstation 3 unless they had some type of psychotic need for the Xbox 360 to be a better system.

I have NEVER touched an XBOX360 in my life nor do I plan to if I can help it. I even pointed out my own sarcasm at the end for the learning disabled. :D

I don't care about in game chat, not like I can hear people anyways... stupid PSeye... and only one of my real life freinds has a PS3 so its not a big deal because if I wanted to chat while playing i'd get on my cell phone.

I've never used custom soundtracks in anything but racing games, and probably never will. Lots of great videogame music out there.

The party chat system is awesome, and makes it incredibly easy to setup games with friends, as it should be on a console. It also mutes everybody but your friends when playing together. It's an excellent feature, and Sony obviously sees the value in adding it.

Regarding holding the phone to your head...as someone mentioned above, you could always use a BT headset or the speaker phone option. Still, I don't see why I'd ever want to use this feature. Maybe I'm too old to want to talk to people in other games. To each his/her own.

I hadn't given the in-game music feature much thought. I have used it in KZ2 a few times, but it distracts me from hearing the sounds in-game...which are useful at times. I guess I'd appreciate it in other games where in-game audio clues aren't there.

I'm with you on this!

Regarding holding the phone to your head...as someone mentioned above, you could always use a BT headset or the speaker phone option. Still, I don't see why I'd ever want to use this feature. Maybe I'm too old to want to talk to people in other games. To each his/her own.

I hadn't given the in-game music feature much thought. I have used it in KZ2 a few times, but it distracts me from hearing the sounds in-game...which are useful at times. I guess I'd appreciate it in other games where in-game audio clues aren't there.
+69 bajillion

+1. I've never really understood why we'd need to talk to folks that aren't in the same game we are in anyway... Isn't that why God made cell phones?

I don't see much need to talk across games, but I think it's dumb that if I am playing Madden online with a friend we can only talk to each other when we join each other's game. Once the game ends, you can't talk to each other until you rejoin the game.. if you are doing an online franchise you can't talk to each other unless you are actually playing each other. It seems a little silly and backwards.

It could also be 2K.

BTW, one more thing. I didn't say it WAS EA, I said apparently.

Definition of apparently.
3. Seemingly; in appearance; as, a man may be apparently friendly, yet malicious in heart.

I'm not sure where I said it was 100% for certain it was EA.

Some of you on here need to take a chill pill or not get so butthurt and activate defense mode the minute you see something negative.

This isn't directed specifically towards you Sundull.

it's ea, you know it. ea is a garbage company that only cares about money. look at the new madden. they had tons of community involvement, weekly blogs highlighting the development process, and what? the game is still a buggy piece of crap. i'm so glad that they only rarely come out with a game worth buying. actually, the only ea labeled games i have are burnout and skate 2.

Madden may be garbage, but then again look at FIFA or NHL. With FIFA they literally threw it all out after 06 and rebuilt the game focused around the core mechanics. FIFA 10 might end up as one of the best sport games of all time.

It's the same company, sooooo... it's all about the priorities. Don't blame the entire company for that. Especially a company of EA's size.

I'd just like to be able to play my own music while playing non storydriven games, where the game's audio isn't too necessary...such as playing any fighting, sports or racing games...especially when I have friends over to the house to play. I also get so tired of the same menu music in most games, so that's another reason it'd be nice to play my own tunes.

It could also be 2K.

The company in question is definitely EA.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17308103&postcount=697

This thread is 'tarded...

I said it before and I'll say it again. 3rd party developers don't care about dumb cross game chat and custom soundtracks. No one is going to make a decision to not buy a game because of these reasons, especially not PS3 owners. If they did they'd get it on 360, so either way 3rd party wins.

Also it's not like EA uses the same developers for every game. How does it make sense that it would effect any major developer across the board. Do you guys think EA has some base code they force everyone to add in?

Oh I get it... the BIG EA symbol at the beginning! That's the KEY!!

Universal in game music is far more appealing (to me) than cross game voice chat. If you're playing one game and your friend's playing another, call him on your cell and put it on speaker phone...or your BLUETOOTH!

Custom soundtracks is a far more useful option, and one that will likely continue to be limited in its implementation.

Terrible logic. If you want to say I can just use a cell phone to talk to the other guy I want to talk to and that crossgame voice chat is useless (for you), but then you claim you want custom soundtracks more? Hey man, just put the stereo on and we don't have this problem anymore.

Usefulness for just one person shouldn't be the deciding factor. I personally would like both, not because I NEED them, but because they would be convenient for me personally.

Terrible logic. If you want to say I can just use a cell phone to talk to the other guy I want to talk to and that crossgame voice chat is useless (for you), but then you claim you want custom soundtracks more? Hey man, just put the stereo on and we don't have this problem anymore.

Usefulness for just one person shouldn't be the deciding factor. I personally would like both, not because I NEED them, but because they would be convenient for me personally.

I've got about $1000 poured into a sound system (same system the PS3 is hooked up to), but I'm supposed to listen to my music through a stereo instead while I play games? No thanks.

Have you all not seen already this was debunked by both EA and Sony?

I personally have used cross game chat on the 360 quite a bit. I talk to my brother all the time while we play different games. It'd be a nice feature on the PS3 but I don't really understand the point of someone posting "I don't see what the big deal is, I wouldn't use it". It's obvious people care and it's a big enough deal to generate tons of conversation about it so enough already lol.

Sony felt compelled to win the Blu-Ray - Hd DVD war which they did. Had nothing to do with load times only had to do with money and Sony won, M$ lost get over it.

Toshiba lost not MS.