I recently moved into a new house and I'm working on creating an effective home theater system. I'm trying to keep the various parts relatively separate, as I think that'll help the whole thing to be stable and expandable.

First I'll start with an old desktop that will be converted into a mythTV backend. It's a P4 with 1G of RAM. It'll be updated with a new 1Tb SATA hard drive and a Hauppauge HVR-1600 which will connect to my basic cable service (no set-top box, don't anticipate upgrading cable to HD, using Comcast) to pull down local channels and the few channels I pay for along with my internet service. Mostly the backend will be designed to get Hulu, youtube, last.fm, pandora, or whatever other streaming service pops up. I'd like the backend to be able to timeshift shows, rewind live TV, and backup DVDs so I can watch anything from the library on either a computer or the main TV.

The main TV will be served by a new system I plan to build based around this newegg wishlist:
For completeness, the hardware is as follows:


Antec New Solution NSK2480 Black/Silver 0.8mm cold-rolled steel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case 380W Power Supply - Retail
ASUS P5N7A-VM LGA 775 NVIDIA GeForce 9300/nForce 730i HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Intel Pentium E5300 2.6GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80571E5300 - Retail
Kingston ValueRAM 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KVR800D2N5K2/2G - Retail
Possibly an SSD to boot from, maybe just use an old HD I have sitting around


This PC will sit with the 42" 1080p TV and serve up the content from the backend. I went with the P5N7A-VM because it has the GeForce 9300, which should be able to use VDPAU to decode the incoming video stream quickly. The E5300 is kind of overkill, but it'll allow me to easily web surf on this PC with a wireless keyboard/mouse combo. The RAM is just cheap, and does the job. The motherboard includes onboard 7.1 surround, which I'll somehow need to get connected to my in-wall speakers. Haven't figured that out yet.

Anyways, I wanted to post this and see if anyone saw any gaping holes in my methodology. My big questions for any seasoned HTPCers is

Will the Hauppauge be able to effectively capture my cable stream?
Do I need a beefier processor on the backend than my old P4?
Is there a smarter/cheaper way to do an effective front-end machine?
Will this be easily extensible? As in, should I want another frontend for a child's TV, would I need to consider other options?


Thanks for reading. I hope this helps anyone else looking at a similar solution.

You don't say what version of P4 you have, there is quite a difference between a Willamette 1.8GHz and a Prescott 3.2GHz P4.
The problem with the P4 I can see is power efficiency, if the box is on 24/7 it will draw quite a bit of power, especially if it's a Prescott P4, a Northwood (around 2.5Ghz) would be best (decently efficient and powerful), as long as you enable cpu-throttling.

Explain why your backend system will interface to Hulu? ie. I didn't think there was a way to scrape the video from Hulu.

Instead of the e5300, consider the 6300 instead... rough;y same price, but better specs and VT capable.

First I'll start with an old desktop that will be converted into a mythTV backend. It's a P4 with 1G of RAM. It'll be updated with a new 1Tb SATA hard drive and a Hauppauge HVR-1600 which will connect to my basic cable service (no set-top box, don't anticipate upgrading cable to HD, using Comcast) to pull down local channels and the few channels I pay for along with my internet service.

Do you already have cable plugged into the TV without a set-top box? If not, you should, so you will know which channels you will be able to receive without a STB.

Mostly the backend will be designed to get Hulu, youtube, last.fm, pandora, or whatever other streaming service pops up.

These tasks are handled on the frontend, not backend. For this reason, if you want to do streaming Flash-based video, a speedy CPU on the frontend is needed. I hear the E5300 should handle it fine, but I haven't tried it myself. NVIDIA's faster graphics cards, rather than built-in graphics, also helps with Flash playback.

I'd like the backend to be able to timeshift shows, rewind live TV, and backup DVDs so I can watch anything from the library on either a computer or the main TV.

Not a problem. Backing up DVDs will most likely be a little slow. That task will probably be significantly faster on your new frontend system you have spec'ed.

Hope this helps!
-- Kevin

Not a problem. Backing up DVDs will most likely be a little slow. That task will probably be significantly faster on your new frontend system you have spec'ed.


I don't agree with this bit, backing up DVDs (assuming no transcoding) depends purely on the speed of the DVD-drive, I used a P4 2.5GHz until recently, then moved on to a dual-core AMD4850e but the time it takes to back up a DVD stayed the same (9-12 minutes depending on the size of the movie).

I may have assumed too much. I assumed transcoding to h.264 when I wrote my reply, since that's what I do (using Handbrake). However, you are absolutely correct if you just want to create a VIDEO_TS folder or an ISO image.

Thanks for the replies


You don't say what version of P4 you have, there is quite a difference between a Willamette 1.8GHz and a Prescott 3.2GHz P4.
The problem with the P4 I can see is power efficiency, if the box is on 24/7 it will draw quite a bit of power, especially if it's a Prescott P4, a Northwood (around 2.5Ghz) would be best (decently efficient and powerful), as long as you enable cpu-throttling.


Sorry - that's because I didn't buy the processor and I'm not sure exactly what it is. I believe it's in the 2.4 Ghz range - it's definitely not over 2.5, nor do I think it's under 2.0. I'll have to see when I'm at home (instead of work). How would I enable CPU-throttling? In the BIOS?


These tasks are handled on the frontend, not backend. For this reason, if you want to do streaming Flash-based video, a speedy CPU on the frontend is needed. I hear the E5300 should handle it fine, but I haven't tried it myself. NVIDIA's faster graphics cards, rather than built-in graphics, also helps with Flash playback.


My hope was to rip Hulu/Youtube videos with the backend and store them. For instance, I believe that Hulu and CBS both have the latest several episodes of popular shows rotate through. I don't always watch TV fast enough to catch them all before an episode is phased out, so I wanted to have the backend grab shows as they become available and archive them for me. Of course, it would also be nice to have a frontend that is powerful enough to pull a show directly, if I don't want to archive it.


Explain why your backend system will interface to Hulu? ie. I didn't think there was a way to scrape the video from Hulu.


If boxee does it, there must be a technical way to do it. Figuring that way out shouldn't be too hard. Of course, taking that line of logic, if it plays on your computer, you can save the stream. I'd be very surprised if someone hasn't programmed a way to do it yet.


Instead of the e5300, consider the 6300 instead... rough;y same price, but better specs and VT capable.


VT = Virtualization Technology? What benefit would that provide?


I may have assumed too much. I assumed transcoding to h.264 when I wrote my reply, since that's what I do (using Handbrake). However, you are absolutely correct if you just want to create a VIDEO_TS folder or an ISO image.


I didn't realize I could transcode to h.264. I'll have to look in to that, thanks!

My hope was to rip Hulu/Youtube videos with the backend and store them. For instance, I believe that Hulu and CBS both have the latest several episodes of popular shows rotate through. I don't always watch TV fast enough to catch them all before an episode is phased out, so I wanted to have the backend grab shows as they become available and archive them for me. Of course, it would also be nice to have a frontend that is powerful enough to pull a show directly, if I don't want to archive it.

.....

If boxee does it, there must be a technical way to do it. Figuring that way out shouldn't be too hard. Of course, taking that line of logic, if it plays on your computer, you can save the stream. I'd be very surprised if someone hasn't programmed a way to do it yet

I wouldn't hold my breath.. if someone has figured it out, they are keeping it on the down-low... we would all LOVE to be able to scrape Hulu, not so much to avoid using Hulu, but to avoid having to use Flash as the player (of course then we'd all be bored without having the constant need to pick on how bad Flash is).

Please prove me wrong.. but I fear you won't on this.

Sorry - that's because I didn't buy the processor and I'm not sure exactly what it is. I believe it's in the 2.4 Ghz range - it's definitely not over 2.5, nor do I think it's under 2.0. I'll have to see when I'm at home (instead of work). How would I enable CPU-throttling? In the BIOS?

You should be able to see at least the speed of the cpu at the BIOS screen right after switching the PC on, anyway if it's in the 2.4-2.5GHz range then it's fine, those P4s were decently powerful, while at the same time not running too hot like the later Prescott models.
CPU-throttling is enabled in Linux, I'm not sure how you do it in Ubuntu as I use Mandriva Linux, but I'm sure once you get to that point, that someone with Ubuntu experience will tell you how to configure it.


VT = Virtualization Technology? What benefit would that provide?


That's useful if you want to run virtual machines, it makes them slightly faster, but IMHO completely useless on a HTPC.
You should also bear in mind that the E6300 has a faster 1066FSB which means that the motherboard chipset will run hotter than with a E5300 too, and use more electricity.
I'm not advising against the E6300, it's a good cpu and with the Antec NSK2480 case (which has excellent cooling, that's why I recommend it in the HTPC mobo article (http://www.linuxtech.net/features/best_linux_htpc_motherboards.html)) the extra heat wouldn't be a major issue, but I don't see the necessity for it's extra power in a HTPC, unless you want to use it for transcoding (but don't expect a big difference).
You should also consider that overclocking a E5300 to 3GHz is trivial (with no drawbacks), so if you need more processing power than what the E5300 provides by default, you can get it without changing the cpu.


I didn't realize I could transcode to h.264. I'll have to look in to that, thanks!

I wouldn't recommend that for DVDs, only for HD material.
DVDs are already not that great if you watch them on a HD display, if you transcode them again, the picture quality will only get worse (I only do it with TV-episodes and with HD material).
For transcoding the P4 is unsuitable, to transcode a DVD to h.264 it will take 10-12 hours, while a E5300 will take 3-4 hours.
But as I said, I don't think it's worth the hassle with DVDs, even with a E5300 it takes far too long if you have hundreds of DVDs, the only advantage of transcoding is that you save some disk space but hard disks are so cheap these days anyway.

How would I enable CPU-throttling? In the BIOS?

Make sure SpeedStep is enabled in the BIOS. Then "apt-get install cpufreq-utils", then change the "ENABLE" line in /etc/default/cpufrequtils to "true". Set the "GOVERNOR" line to "ondemand". Leave MIN_SPEAD and MAX_SPEAD (if present) at 0. Then run "/etc/init.d/cpufrequtils restart" to make the settings active.

Run cpufreq-info to see the current CPU speed. There's a GNOME applet as well.

DVDs are already not that great if you watch them on a HD display, if you transcode them again, the picture quality will only get worse (I only do it with TV-episodes and with HD material).

You can use high settings in Handbrake to give excellent quality transcodes that still saves a lot of space. As for DVDs looking bad on HDTVs, they look fine to me, maybe I'm not as picky as some people. Of course they don't look as good as Blu-Ray. But they look a lot better than SD TV from Dish Network. Hell, they look almost as good as Dish's crappy over-compressed HD channels.

However, with transcoding, you do lose all the extra features on a DVD.

Hulu Downloader 3.23 on google. I'd post a link, but I can't yet - antispam

-Ender

Hulu Downloader 3.23 on google. I'd post a link, but I can't yet - antispam

-Ender

Its feeling very good to be very close to wrong...... anything that does the same under Linux? (so I can be totally wrong :D )

You can use high settings in Handbrake to give excellent quality transcodes that still saves a lot of space. As for DVDs looking bad on HDTVs, they look fine to me, maybe I'm not as picky as some people.

I have spend quite a bit of time in the last 6 months trying to get output from Handbrake that is indistinguishable from the original and have come to the conclusion that it's not worth the hassle.

I's not a fault of Handbrake, it produces excellent results that most of the time are indistinguishable, but 3 hours encoding time per DVD and then having to spend time checking the results as depending on the source material they are not always good enough, is just not worth it, when hard disks are getting cheaper and bigger all the time.

I'd rather add another few terabytes to my raid then spend countless hours encoding DVDs not to mention all that electricity used for encoding hundreds of DVDs probably doesn't make it a much cheaper solution either.

I'm still using Handbrake, but only for TV-series episodes, as those would take up too much space otherwise and I don't care much about perfect picture quality with TV episodes.

Fair enough!

Its feeling very good to be very close to wrong...... anything that does the same under Linux? (so I can be totally wrong )


There aren't any that I can readily find. Given that there are so many commercial entities that do it, I wouldn't be surprised if there was one. I know that Boxee has had an ongoing battle with Hulu over pulling their stream. Boxee seems to have a relatively easy time making it work too. So, it's quite do-able.

If I can't find an open-source solution, I'd be sorely tempted to write one myself.