I am at the point where I am done upgrading all my components, subs, ect.
I have a little money left over and I want to add some treatment to my room.

It is sort of an oddball room so Im not sure where and from what I would benefit the most. The right side of the room has three tall windows covered by a continuous curtain, normally closed but I opened them for better lighting. The right side is a short pony wall about 3.5-4' tall which opens up to the downstairs. The back wall with seating is not cenetred with the front wall because it is shorter. Below is a diagram with dimensions of the room.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll282/fosheezy-photos/room-Model.jpg

Here is a drawing of my recent build after I got a larger screen and replaced my tower speakers. I had to push the center channel down, which made the rack longer as well.
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll282/fosheezy-photos/AVRACK-new-Model.jpg

Here are some pictures I took of the old screen wall with tower fronts but I now have bookshelf fronts above the subs. I will take new photos soon. But you can get the idea of my room.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll282/fosheezy-photos/DSC06898.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll282/fosheezy-photos/DSC06899.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll282/fosheezy-photos/DSC06900.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll282/fosheezy-photos/DSC06902.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll282/fosheezy-photos/DSC06904.jpg

I am new to room treatments and have read some, but I am wondering with my room if there is even anything I can do to improve the sound. Or if the dimensions and layout of the room are such that there isnt much that can be done.

My primary question is there some obvious treatment that I should do first? What is the general consensus of first and most effective treatment that I should do? If I have money left over I can do secondary improvements and so on.

My budget is about $300-$500. Possible to save up more, if needed. Is there anything I can do with this budget to make an improvement and any recommendations of materials or products would be much appreciated. Also, I would be up to any DIY treatments.

Here's the short version which will get you 99 percent of the way there. All rooms need:

* Broadband (not tuned) bass traps straddling as many corners as you can manage, including the wall-ceiling corners. More bass traps on the rear wall behind helps even further. You simply cannot have too much bass trapping. Real bass trapping, that is - thin foam and thin fiberglass don't work to a low enough frequency.

* Mid/high frequency absorption at the first reflection points on the side walls and ceiling.

* Some additional amount of mid/high absorption and/or diffusion on any large areas of bare parallel surfaces, such as opposing walls or the ceiling if the floor is reflective. Diffusion on the rear wall behind you is also useful in larger rooms.

For the complete story see my Acoustics FAQ. (http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html)

There's a lot of additional non-sales technical information on my company's web site (http://www.realtraps.com) - articles, videos, test tones and other downloads, and much more.

--Ethan

It is a tough order as your room is not really a room. It is missing two walls with the left side opening to a huge space.

Thats why Im seeking advice on whether it would even be worth doing anything.

Bass traps are difficult in the front walls due to my speakers and back wall due to the seats and top back wall due to projector and heater vent and side wall because of the curtain rail/windows. The right wall has nowhere for panels, but it does have a curtain, which I would assume helps a little. The left wall(pony wall) can have panels but its only a half wall and back wall has posters, which I could exchange with panels if I knew it would give a noticable improvement. The floor is thick carpet and the ceiling has a fan, so Im pretty limited.

Its a tough room and thats why I didnt think I could follow the general recommendations. Im thinking there isnt much I could do thats worth the money, but I thought I would ask.

I would say a thick bass trap is needed behind the seating position as you are probably getting very heavy tiring bass back there.

Its a tough room and thats why I didnt think I could follow the general recommendations. Im thinking there isnt much I could do thats worth the money, but I thought I would ask.

It most likely would not be worth the expense.:o

I would say a thick bass trap is needed behind the seating position as you are probably getting very heavy tiring bass back there.

The triangular type at floor to wall behind the seats?

The triangular type at floor to wall behind the seats?

More likely he means move the couch out several inches and put a panel on the wall behind the listeners' heads.

I had a couch right up against the back wall for a while, and the booming reflections from within the wall were so bad that I avoided sitting there. Granted, my wall had thin wood paneling which would have exacerbated the problem.

Here's the short version which will get you 99 percent of the way there. All rooms need:

* Broadband (not tuned) bass traps straddling as many corners as you can manage, including the wall-ceiling corners. More bass traps on the rear wall behind helps even further. You simply cannot have too much bass trapping. Real bass trapping, that is - thin foam and thin fiberglass don't work to a low enough frequency.

* Mid/high frequency absorption at the first reflection points on the side walls and ceiling.

* Some additional amount of mid/high absorption and/or diffusion on any large areas of bare parallel surfaces, such as opposing walls or the ceiling if the floor is reflective. Diffusion on the rear wall behind you is also useful in larger rooms.

For the complete story see my Acoustics FAQ. (http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html)

There's a lot of additional non-sales technical information on my company's web site (http://www.realtraps.com) - articles, videos, test tones and other downloads, and much more.

--Ethan

AWESOME FAQ... where have you been! I've been reading acoustic stuff around here for 2 years and could have used that long ago :)

More likely he means move the couch out several inches and put a panel on the wall behind the listeners' heads.

I had a couch right up against the back wall for a while, and the booming reflections from within the wall were so bad that I avoided sitting there. Granted, my wall had thin wood paneling which would have exacerbated the problem.

Yeah that's what I meant. But he doesn't even need to move the coach out (although a few inches would be nice) as long as he can fit some thick traps behind the listeners.

AWESOME FAQ... where have you been! I've been reading acoustic stuff around here for 2 years and could have used that long ago :)Ethan is irrepressible. I am surprised anyone has missed his posts. ;)

AWESOME FAQ... where have you been!

As Kal said, I'm everywhere. If you Google "acoustic treatment," my web site is usually first in the list. :D

--Ethan

as kal said, i'm everywhere. If you google bass traps, my web site is usually first in the list. :d

--ethan

as kal said, i'm everywhere. If you google "acoustic treatment," my web site is usually first in the list. :d

--ethan qed!

LOL, I meant to delete the first one, not edit a copy! I usually can work the forum software better than that. :eek:

Original post updated and pictures added.

Yeah, its been a while, but I have recently purchased some 2" Rockboard 60. I plan on making the panels myself with a thin wood frame wrapped in some AT fabric. I have convinced the wife to allow me to put some panels up. I plan on placing two panels on the pony wall, one panel on the rear wall behind the seating-about head level and a panel in each of the window sills that can be removed/replaced easily. The panels on the walls will be mounted with some common hanging hardware. I am hoping that treatment in these few locations (although not optimum) will give some improvement to the sound. I would like to install some corner bass traps, but it just aint gonna happen in this room.

I have also purchased an SMS-1 to help tame my pair of MFW-15s. I will post pics of the project once all the materials arrive.

So I got my SMS-1 today and I ran it. Here is a pic of my FR with Audyssey Multi EQ engaged. I just wanted to see how my setup was behaving before doing any tweaking:

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll282/fosheezy-photos/DSC08385.jpg

For the most part the response looks pretty good. Anything I may be missing here?

For the most part the response looks pretty good. Anything I may be missing here?

Measure again at high resolution using the Freeware Room EQ Wizard (http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/) program. Then measure again with the microphone a foot away, but without changing the Audyssey calibration. Only then will you know what you really have.

--Ethan

You ever get the feeling that the Velo uses like 1/2 octave smoothing?

Every graph I've ever seen posted is +/-3db. Never any sharp nulls or mountainous peaks. And full extension to 15hz and beyond. Only problem is that it's at 76db, not 110 where the curve gets squashed by the limiter. End of rant.

Unfortunately the best advice for a room like this, is use another room (or just live with it as is).

Unfortunately the best advice for a room like this, is use another room (or just live with it as is).

Every little bit counts-we will see if a few panels here and there help at all.


I received my rockboard 60 yesterday so I went to Lowes and got some wood for frames and Joannes for some AT fabric. I ended up getting the speaker grill fabric and some cheap cotton fabric for the backing. I got one panel finished last night. I need to do some measurements because a couple walls wont accomodate a full 2' x 4' panel. I will post some pics this evening.

My $0.02...

- Use the rockboard to create removable "plugs" for the windows which block out all light and improve acoustic symmetry. Right now you have a lot of HF reflection on the right with the windows, and none on the left with the pony wall. This will help balance things out, and you can stash them in a closet when you aren't watching movies.

- Move the couch out away from the wall at least a couple of feet and center it. Move the rear surrounds up above the posters so that they are creating a diffuse sound field instead of beaming into the listeners ears from 1 foot away. Move the surround speakers back so they are closer to a ITU arrangment instead of sitting in front of the listeners.

- Heavy curtain over the pony wall to block out stray light from the windows above the stairwell, and improve acoustic symmetry.

- Mount the rest of the rockboard behind speakers on the front wall and behind listeners heads on the rear wall.

Thanks for the input!


- Use the rockboard to create removable "plugs" for the windows which block out all light and improve acoustic symmetry. Right now you have a lot of HF reflection on the right with the windows, and none on the left with the pony wall. This will help balance things out, and you can stash them in a closet when you aren't watching movies.

This was actually something I was planning on doing. See above. I feel this will have the most improvement, as you have stated, the bulk of this wall is glass (highly reflective).

- Move the couch out away from the wall at least a couple of feet and center it. Move the rear surrounds up above the posters so that they are creating a diffuse sound field instead of beaming into the listeners ears from 1 foot away. Move the surround speakers back so they are closer to a ITU arrangment instead of sitting in front of the listeners.

This I cant do. The room is already so small and the entrance of the room would be blocked if I moved the seating any more forward. The surround speakers have a mode swith on them for bipole/dipole/direct. I forget if I have them bipole or dipole but neither really blow away the listeners. The direct setting would, but I dont use that.

- Move the surround speakers back so they are closer to a ITU arrangment instead of sitting in front of the listeners.

Again, the room simply doesnt allow for optimum positioning of these speakers. Ive actually considered taking them out completley and just running a 5.1 system. Still need to do some comparisons.

- Heavy curtain over the pony wall to block out stray light from the windows above the stairwell, and improve acoustic symmetry.

I actually do this. I have installed hooks above the pony wall and during day time viewing I hang the curatins to help seal off and darken the room. This will never be a permanent solution due to WAF. I have alctually talked to her about building the wall all the way up, but she didnt go for it. And I somewhat agree. It is nice to have the loft open to downstairs but from an HT acoustic perspective-it sucks.

- Mount the rest of the rockboard behind speakers on the front wall and behind listeners heads on the rear wall.

This is where some of the rockboard will be going. I will play with placement and try to put some wherever it can fit.

So I made another panel tonight. Here are some pics:

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll282/fosheezy-photos/DSC08400.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll282/fosheezy-photos/DSC08399.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll282/fosheezy-photos/DSC08401.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll282/fosheezy-photos/DSC08404.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll282/fosheezy-photos/DSC08405.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll282/fosheezy-photos/DSC08412.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll282/fosheezy-photos/DSC08413.jpg

Some thoughts:

The current issues with your room include the L/R speakers being placed into the corners. While there are some treatments which would assist with that problem, 1" materials are not enough. At the minimum you'd need two layers of 1" material with a membrain between the two layers.

Your center channel speaker needs to be pulled forward so the face of the center channel cabinet is aligned with, or slightly in front of, the shelf it sits on.

Your seating position against the back wall is a considerable problem and any solution to that would require you to remove your movie posters and install a combination of treatments including absorption and diffusion.

If you're wanting rear channels, placement would almost certainly require an in ceiling location.

From a low frequency response perspective, you have a huge room and any subwoofer, or combination of subwoofers suitable for the volume of the open space would certainly over power your other speakers.

You have your screen resting on the upper shelves of the equipment stand. Those two top shelves will need to be covered with black material unless you want to see three copies of your movie.

Your sound environment can certainly be improved within the constraints you've given; but, it will be a challenge. I would not permanently attach any panels you make or purchase until you've had the opportunity to move them around and pick those locations which give you the best results.

Some thoughts:

The current issues with your room include the L/R speakers being placed into the corners. While there are some treatments which would assist with that problem, 1" materials are not enough. At the minimum you'd need two layers of 1" material with a membrain between the two layers.

This is actually two inch rockboard. Would the one inchers with membrane been better? The fronts are actually going to be placed on shelves that I am going to build to bring them up a few inches off the subwoofers. But, they will still be in the corners.

Your center channel speaker needs to be pulled forward so the face of the center channel cabinet is aligned with, or slightly in front of, the shelf it sits on.

Would it also be good to angle it up towards viewers or is that not neccesary?


Your seating position against the back wall is a considerable problem and any solution to that would require you to remove your movie posters and install a combination of treatments including absorption and diffusion.

If you're wanting rear channels, placement would almost certainly require an in ceiling location.

As far as the back wall goes, I am pretty limited. The best I can do is fit a panel behing the listeners' head below the posters. But I guess that would be better than nothing.

Your sound environment can certainly be improved within the constraints you've given; but, it will be a challenge. I would not permanently attach any panels you make or purchase until you've had the opportunity to move them around and pick those locations which give you the best results.

Yeah, I know Im not going to be able to do everything one would like to do, but hopefully panels at the first reflection points along the side walls and a couple more here and there will help. Thats the most I can hope for.
But yes, they are all hanging on a couple small nails, so its nothing permanent.

Two panels done-Four more to go. Hopefully this weekend I can get em done and have some more time to play with the SMS-1.

This rockbord doesnt seem to shed fibers or anything like fiberglass does. I'm wondering if I should just leave the back open and not cover it with the cotton. There is about a 1/2" gap behind the panels and it may be good to leave the back exposed for a little extra absorption.
Or is it recommended to have these completely wrapped-from a safety standpoint?