From Blu-Ray.com


Blu-ray 3-D Technology Revealed - Active Shutter

Posted September 3, 2009 10:40 AM by Josh Dreuth

Blu-ray Disc While the announcement from the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) yesterday indicated that they were still examining candidates for implementation of 3-D on Blu-ray, moves by two primary Blu-ray companies - Sony and Panasonic - have given a glimpse into the future of Blu-ray: Active Shutter 3-D.

3-D presentations work by giving distance to otherwise flat images. Two visual perspectives are presented which, when combined, give distance to the image in the same way your eyes gauge distance. Try this: Hold a pencil a few inches from your nose. If you cover your right eye, the pencil will appear to be to your right. Cover your left eye and the pencil moves to your left. When your brain combines these two perspectives, it gives you a sense of distance – the third dimension. With film, two perspectives are presented to the viewer, and when combined, simulate distance. Thus, a 3-D effect.

You are likely most familiar with anaglyph 3-D presentations that require viewers to wear the now iconic red/blue glasses. The tinted lenses of the glasses act as color filters, restricting certain parts of the image specific to each visual perspective from reaching the viewer's eye. By presenting two different perspectives of the image to each eye, the viewer perceives a 3-D image.

Today, the majority of 3-D films are presented theatrically with an evolved version of the red/blue glasses which uses polarization to block images rather than color filters. Two polarized images are superimposed on the screen, one for the left eye and one for the right eye. Through polarization, the glasses allow each eye to only see the perspective intended for that eye. Similar to the red/blue presentations, two different visual perspectives simulate distance in the image.

While both the red/blue and polarized solutions are inexpensive, difficulties arise outside of ideal settings. If viewed at an angle or in lighter settings, the 3-D effect diminishes rapidly. In the home theater setting, it is unlikely that the majority of users watch films in the ideal settings, so an alternative was developed: active shutter technology.

Unlike the passive solutions described above, active shutter glasses literally block and unblock your view utilizing remotely activated LCD screens in the lenses. Here's how it works: Your HDTV sends a signal (via IR, Bluetooth, or other radio transmitters) to the glasses to sync them to the correct frame rate. The glasses - which are powered by rechargeable batteries - will send alternating electrical signals to each lens which activates an LCD screen in the lens, effectively blocking that eye's view of the screen.

At this same time, the HDTV is alternating visual perspectives (called "alternate-frame sequencing") at the exact same rate. When the right eye is blocked (and the left eye is viewing), the left perspective is displayed. When the left eye is blocked, the right perspective is displayed. By alternating visual perspectives to each eye it gives the perception of a 3-D image. And this all happens so fast, that you never realize your vision is being blocked.

If this all sounds too futuristic, you might be surprised to learn that it's being used commercially today. The main provider of this technology is XpanD, and they have installed these active shutter 3-D systems in many theaters across the globe (including the screening theaters for the majority of Hollywood studios). The glasses run about $100 a piece, which should reduce as consumer interest rises.

Panasonic has been parading their 3-D Blu-ray solution around the world since it was first revealed at CEATEC 2008, which features a 3-D plasma HDTV, a 3-D Blu-ray Disc player, and active shutter 3-D glasses. Likewise, Sony has recently announced their intention to integrate 3-D across their entire home entertainment line using active shutter technology.

Officially, the BDA has yet to bless active shutter 3-D technology as the delivery mechanism for 3-D Blu-ray, but with two top Blu-ray companies no on board, there can be no doubt that when a decision is eventually made, it will be in favor of active shutter 3-D.

Of course this part about the shutter glasses we already new.:mad:


I have been calling the Panasonic Hollywood Laboratory for a week, promised a call back, and nothing.

Is the output 1 hdmi, 2 hdmi, or 2 dvi?

Is the system triple flash or double flash, and is there 2/3 pullup involved.

Some simple questions that Panasonic is keeping close to their chest.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/09/pan-3d-28.jpg

One hdmi cable and 120 fps.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/09/pan-3d-32.jpg

What's this? Probably the prototype UniPhier Engine. :)

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/09/pan-3d-53.jpg

panasonic have a 3d demo at the
IFA Show in Berlin(the world biggest consumer show)
that open today.
they use there a 103" plasma with 2 times full hd with shutter glasses.

first repots say that the picture is very very good.
they are using a 3d bd player sample.


hdmi 1.3 can not do 3d only hdmi 1.4 can do it.

all infos from the show tells we will see late 2010 bd in 3d together with at least
sony with led tvs that can do 3d and panasonic with plasma that can do 3d.

both are using shutter so full resolution in 3d:)

jvc and philips use polarizer for there 3d led tvs so half resolution for 3d:mad:

I heard the series 2 Barco MAYBE is going to do 60 x 3 triple flash @180 but only though hdsdi. That could work with an hdmi 1.4 to hdsdi converter box.

Sounds like a trickle indeed.

Art

from Google news

BERLIN — Sony set the stage for a new battle this week with the unveiling of a 3D television, hoping to get a technology currently confined to a few cinemas into living rooms next year.

The Bravia LCD TV, presented at the IFA consumer electronics fair, will not only enable people to watch programmes in three dimensions, it will be the "centerpiece of Sony's 3D entertainment experience," Sony promises.

Users will also be able to plug in their PlayStation games consoles, allowing them to play games in 3D, as well as Blu-Ray disc players and computers, the Japanese firm says.

And to back up what it hopes what will soon become a major cash cow for it, Sony also makes the equipment needed to make movies and television programmes to play on the TV, which can also be used for regular, two-dimensional viewing.

"It is the perfect moment for an announcement like this, even if its plans are ambitious," Ralf Tanger, an expert on 3D technology at the Fraunhofer Heinrich Hertz research institute, told AFP.

3D movies have been around for some time, with the Lumiere brothers' "L'arrivee du train" filmed back in 1903, according to Sensio, one of the many firms looking to get a piece of the future 3D pie.

In 1946, the Soviet Union made "Robinzon Cruzo", the world's first talkie in colour and 3D, and in the 1950s there were more than 60 others including Alfred Hitchcock's "Dial M for Murder" before studios put 3D on the back burner.

In the 1970s and early 1980s studios tried with offerings like "Jaws 3D" and "Friday the 13th, Part 3", with cinemas issuing cardboard glasses, but it was not until the 1986 invention of the IMAX format that 3D came into its own.

The Cannes film festival kicked off this year with a gala opening ceremony that saw goofy spectacles foisted on tuxedo-clad celebrities for Disney-Pixar's 3D cartoon comedy "Up."

This year sees the eagerly awaited release in December of "Avatar" by James Cameron, the director of "Titanic". German director Wim Wenders is working on a film about choreographer Pina Bausch, who died earlier this year.

It is in the cinema that 3D has stayed, but Sony and its rivals are hoping that it will soon break out and one day replace 2D as the new standard.

"Now the target is the living room," Tanger said.

This is helped by the fact that some firms are considering launching channels that will show 3D programmes.

"At the moment the big handicap is that we are lacking in material," Joern Ostermann, head of the Laboratory for Information Technology at Leipniz University in the northern German city of Hanover, told AFP.

"But that is changing."

However Sony is not the only show in town.

Other companies such as Japan's Panasonic and South Korea's Hyundai have also got in on the act, and there is the looming prospect of a so-called format war when rival technologies battle it out to become the industry norm.

Sony has a history in this area, and not always with a happy end. In the 1980s it bet on Betamax video tapes but lost out to JVC's rival VHS format. Last year though Sony's Blu-Ray format saw off Toshiba's HD DVD.

Sony's new TV alternates the image for the left and right eye, while special glasses open and shut in sync with the image on the screen, giving the impression of depth.

But the technology is moving so fast that the glasses may soon be a thing of the past.

Philips Cinema 21:9 3D spotted

http://www.electricpig.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/cinema-21-9-150x150.jpg

4/09/2009

cinema-21-9Philips’ Cinema 21:9 is one impressive TV. But now the Dutch maestros have decided to shovel in some extra goodies in the shape of 3D. So when can you lay your hands on this slice of next–gen kit? Read on and we’ll tell you.

Using its IFA press conference to tout the Cinema 21:9 3D, Philips said the TV itself pointed to a future where your home entertainment was served up on monster screens with an extra slice of reality chucked in.

The only issue? The Cinema 21:9 3D is only a prototype for now, with Philips saying the full on version won’t be hitting shelves for many years yet. That’s a shame as Sony and other big TV players gear up to wage all out 3D war next year.

We’ll be going hands on with the Cinema 21:9 3D here at IFA, so stay right here for some tasty shots of its sleek frame.

fromthe telegraph co uk
IFA 2009 round-up: 3D TV in 2010
As IFA closes down for another year, It seems as though 2010 could be the year of 3D TV.


Technology Editor, in Berlin
Published: 1:35PM BST 04 Sep 2009
IFA Show in Berlin: 3D TV in 2010 was this year's big talking point
3D in 2010: 3D TV and movies - such as the forthcoming James Cameron movie Avatar, dominated IFA this year

The technology calendar is book-ended by two key events: the vast, frenetic Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas that takes place every January; and IFA, a more sedate event held every September in Berlin.

Both shows this year have been united by a common theme: 3D television. At the start of the year, a host of manufacturers, including Sony, Samsung and Philips, confidently claimed that 3D TV would be the next big thing in home entertainment, the natural successor to high-definition television.

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Now, Sony and Panasonic have finally confirmed that they will be launching 3D televisions next year, to coincide with what is set to be a huge surge of interest in the technology; Sky will start broadcasting a 3D satellite channel, while film-makers are already retooling studios to shoot movies in this emerging format.

While IFA may have given technology fans a chance to see these 3D TVs in actions, and provided manufacturers with an opportunity to pledge support for the format across their whole range of devices, there are still some important unanswered questions.

Namely, will content creators and television makers be able to settle on a single standard for the technology? At the moment, some manufacturers favour 3D sets that require users to wear glasses with polarised lens; others prefer active shutter technology, whereby viewers wear electronic glasses that contain tiny shutters that flicker rapidly in sync with the on-screen image to produce a 3D effect.

Failure to agree on a common technology could prove off-putting for consumers; some have only just upgraded to full-HD television sets, and will be reluctant to splash out on a 3D TV for fear of backing the wrong horse in yet another format war.

There's also the question of whether consumers really want 3D television in their homes. Watching a 3D movie at the cinema is one thing, because the regimented seating arrangements and ambience are conducive to the immersive experience afforded by 3D; but whether people will be willing to wear glasses to watch TV at home, and position their furniture accordingly, remains something of a moot point.

Nonetheless, events at IFA have underlined the fact that, as Sony's chief executive Sir Howard Stringer put it, the 3D train is on the track, and it will soon be stopping at a station near you.

Away from the third dimension, IFA offers little in the way of groundbreaking technology. There's a decent selection of new products making their debut, including a Blu-ray DVD player from Toshiba (once a cheerleader for the defunct rival format HD-DVD), a smart four-thirds camera from Panasonic, and a slew of music-streaming devices from the likes of Logitech.

More and more manufacturers are also toying with internet-enabled televisions, which can bring catch-up TV services and web-based video sites such as YouTube to the big screen in your living room. However, as yet, none of the services demonstrated at the show have widespread support from broadcasters, and it's impossible to see consumers opting for more expensive internet-enabled televisions until the content is there to justify the extra outlay.

But it's clear that consumer electronics manufacturers, faced with the growing threat posed by internet-enabled mobile devices, are keen to explore new ways to keep the television the centre of the home. Panasonic, for instance, spoke of the “digital hearth”, a collection of electronic devices around which it hopes family members will cluster.

Ultra-portable laptops, known as netbooks, also have a strong presence at IFA, much as they did at CES at the start of the year. Samsung and Sony both unveiled impossibly thin and lightweight computers, but those announcements were to some extent overshadowed by Nokia's news that it would start selling its own 3G-enabled netbook.

The fierce battle for market dominance in this sector shows no signs of abating, although consumers are perhaps less willing to splash out on these netbooks than they were a year ago; the beauty of early devices, such as the £180 Asus Eee PC, was price, but more and more ultra-portable laptops are being marketed as midlevel machines and priced accordingly.

Overall, then, there's a pleasing consistency between the major themes and technologies unveiled over the course of this year. It seems as though 2010 could be the year of 3D TV, with dozens of manufacturers releasing expensive full high-definition, 3D sets by the middle of the year. Whether anyone will watch them, though, is a different matter.

TG Daily...

IFA and 3D Wars: Blu-Ray is Once Again Obsolete
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Hardware
By Rob Enderle, principal analyst, Enderle Group
Thursday, September 03, 2009 11:53
vote
nowBuzz up!
Column IFA is the big consumer electronics conference in Europe and it is vastly better timed than CES coming before the holiday season so you can get excited about stuff to buy rather than right after when you are trying to hide from your credit card bill.

There is a lot of cool stuff here at the show but something that immediately jumped out at me was that Panasonic and Sony were effectively announcing both the obsolescence of existing Blu-Ray and HD TV products but a new format war this time for 3D. The 3D demonstrations were hot but having two large vendors once again not in agreement as to which one will be adopted brings back bad memory of other format wars and I want to hide under my desk. This won’t show up until late 2010 and both vendors are showing both Movie and Gaming 3D content.

The Two Formats

Based on what both vendors showcased it appears that Sony is going the Dolby Real 3D route that uses polarized glasses and is most common in the best 3D theaters at the moment. Panasonic is using active shutter glasses which is a vastly more complex, but often better looking, alternative that requires much more expensive glasses and isn’t common in theaters. The active glasses approach does results in a better overall picture but the glasses have to be powered they have to receive a signal in order to synchronize their shutters and the glasses tend to be comparatively expensive.

The Polarized approach is vastly easier and less expensive to do but screen angle can be a problem and the result generally isn’t as realistic (at least not to my eye). In short the Sony approach is more affordable and the Panasonic is more interesting technically. Both technologies have come a long way and after watching both demos I think I would be personally very happy with either.

The good news is that the same recording equipment can generally be used to create either output format but it is likely that cameras tuned for one approach or the other will provide a better result when the film is shown in a similar fashion. Both Sony and Panasonic make cameras that favor their particular approach.

It is possible that one Blu-Ray player and one Blu-Ray disk could embrace both formats but neither camp talked about or demonstrated this. The market would clearly prefer this be the case because it would dramatically reduce the risk of buying into either technology.

Next Generation 3D Looks Great

As I said above the image out of both of these systems is stunning. In some cases it looks more like you are looking through a window than into a TV screen and High Definition 3D sports is really the closest to being there I’ve ever experienced. This is a short way of saying when you see this you are likely going to want it and want it badly.

Panasonic showed a trailer of the upcoming movie Avatar , not to be confused with another live action movie called Avatar the Last Airbender that will be coming out next year. I’m a big fan of the Airbender series but am looking forward to both movies as the first Avatar is solid Science Fiction and I live to see movies like this.

But just as it is confusing to have two movies that are vastly different coming out close together with the name “Avatar” having two 3D formats isn’t exactly a great thing for technology adoption.

Blu-Ray and HDTVs Are Now Obsolete

Both formats require high cycle rate TVs putting out 120Hz or better for smooth frame rates. In addition both vendors showcased new 3D capable Blu-Ray players suggesting existing players would once again be left behind and you can’t mix and match the solutions, once again, based on the presentations you will need TV compliant with Panasonic’s 3D standard to work properly with their new Blu-Ray player and the same will be true of Sony.

As with most things initially this will come in at the high end of the market and their will likely be a very small amount of available content in either format for awhile. We will probably go through a couple of years with the two vendor arguing which format is best, one will outspend the other and by something around 2012 to 2013 we’ll have something that looks like a common standard. Granted, by then, there will likely be several camps of vendors fighting over something else but this suggests you can wait this out for at least a couple of years.

Wrapping Up:

New technology is great and this 3D stuff is very compelling but with at least two large vendors fighting over standards it will likely be safest to sit this out for awhile and wait until the dust settles before jumping on the bandwagon for either camp. My hope is we get through this conflict relatively quickly because this new 3D technology is truly stunning and I can’t wait to have it in my home. My other hope is that at some point the industry will figure out that having these fights with products does the market scares away buyers and come to agreement on a common standard before going to market. I also hope for world peace which is probably more likely. One final hope; and that is that someone develops glasses for these things that don’t make you look like a total dork when you wear them. Now that I think IS doable.

In any case if you get a chance to see one of these 3D technologies demonstrated, take it, it will give you a feeling for where you might want to spend your money next decade.

Rob Enderle is one of the last Inquiry Analysts. Inquiry Analysts are paid to stay up to date on current events and identify trends and either explain the trends or make suggestions, tactical and strategic, on how to best take advantage of them. Currently he provides his services to most of the major technology and media companies.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of the writer.

WHAT HI FI...
IFA NEWS: Panasonic confirms 3D TV and Blu-ray for 2010, but details remain sketchy
YESTERDAY
Panasonic 3D TV
Panasonic 3D TV – due in 2010

Panasonic unveiled its Full HD 3D TV “extravaganza” at IFA in Berlin this morning, with 3D trailers of James Cameron’s forthcoming 3D film Avatar. The company even flew in Avatar producer Jon Landau – who produced Titanic with Cameron – to wax lyrical about 3D technology.

Once again, Panasonic confirmed it will launch 3D TVs and Blu-ray players in 2010, but specific details of models and launch dates are thin on the ground here at IFA.

And there was no mention of rival 3D TV formats from the likes of Sony and Sky TV, or how Panasonic’s system might integrate with those.

However, there was plenty of rhetoric about the “digital hearth” and how we’ll all soon be clustering round our 3D TVs rather than the fire, as we used to do in the olden days.

Laurent Abadie, the newly appointed CEO for Panasonic Europe, says: “All our R&D effort and all our enthusiasm has gone into developing 3D TV. Let’s step into the 3D world and live in it.”

Yoshiiku Miyata, vice-president of Visual Products and Display Business Group at Panasonic, adds: “One issue has not been resolved: real life is 3D, but TV pictures are still 2D. This is about to change forever. Today Panasonic is showing a new visual revolution.”

Panasonic Hollywood Laboratory
Miyata points out that Panasonic is the only AV manufacturer with its own 3D studio in Hollywood, capable of shooting and editing 3D footage. The company is working closely with James Cameron on Avatar, and using clips from the film – due out this December – to demonstrate 3D TV.

It is also demoing clips of the forthcoming 3D video game of Avatar, developed by Ubisoft, in one of two 3D cinemas here at IFA.

To view the clips in 3D you have to wear a set of special glasses, and we’ve just seen the full demo. Watching the film feels a bit like watching a video game, and while the 3D effect certainly works, it does give a slightly strange feel to on-screen motion.

Panasonic’s 3D system uses frame sequential technology to create two separate video channels, one for each eye, scanned at double the normal frame rate. The 1080p picture is processed using the company’s UniPhier engine.

On its roadmap for 3D TV, Panasonic also says it will develop 3D Blu-ray recorders and 3D home cinema in a box systems, but again precise details remain sketchy.

One things for sure: the battle for supremacy in the world of 3D TV has just begun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx8Op0IPC8g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfO8bTqnmA4

http://www.techradar.com/news/television/hdtv/10-things-you-need-to-know-about-hdmi-1-4-626951

You do realize that it will be 10 years before this makes any sense at all. Hell, Blu Ray still hasn't settled yet and caught on with the general public as of yet, soon though as players hit $100 it will.

More people are interested in NetFlix streaming in HD than they are about 3D, of which there are only a couple of films to watch anyway.

Don't get me wrong I am a BIG 3D proponent. However, it is like we are in the very, very early days and it will be a while before this will matter much in Home Theater. I expect there to be many problems and format issues before this one settles down.

after all that marketing posts still a big question will be
is it possible to see the 3d movies that are record all at 24 frames
judder free at 2x 48 hz or 2x 72 hz or will we see this 3d movies at 2x 60 hz
that have the motion bug 3:2 pulldown inside?

that question is importent but seams no one can confirm anything about it.

after we just get for the first time ever with bd a motion bug free 24p image
it will be a big step back if we get this motion bug back in 3d films.
at least for europe that never have with the pal system this kind of motion bug.

seams in us and japan people not care mutch about it as they get used to
it sice long time.

Wolfgang,

This is the person that can point you to the right answer:

reillyj@us.panasonic.com - Jim Reilly

never has so much been so speculated that so few will care about :)

Well, I care, and I intend to setup the SuperKontrast 3-D lab with the necessary encoders, transcoders, decoders to be able to play all hd content on the series 2 Barco Platform, if possible with the Infitec/Dolby color system that does not suffer from the .002% L/R crosstalk that EVERY OTHER FORMAT DOES. And without the annoying perforated silver screen that looks like a giant colander /volleyball net.

My back probably has more arrow scars than anyone else when it comes to HT so I guess 3-D will be a cake walk in comparison.

Wolfgang,

This is the person that can point you to the right answer:

reillyj@us.panasonic.com - Jim Reilly

thanks i had send him already a mail with some nice pictures:)

let me know when you see the 3d picture i had send to you.

Oh I did on the small monitor not on the dp-1200. Fantastic parallax with the handle bars, and lovely kinder models.

BTW if you are keeping score who has more Barco's, Bayern:2 Everglades: 3 :D

i have a feeling it is more related to Self-flagellation than anything else.

I wish you well in your 3D endeavors. it is like Dbox. if you are building an ultimate toy room, then it cannot be missed. and should not be as an option. but the reality is that most people would not use it and those who have it will barely ever use it.

But hey, those who own a Pagini Zonda do use it for going to the market.


(hmmm.... Top gear in 3D!!!!! that could drive some adoption!)

Hm... So it looks like no matter what display methodology is going to be used, the transmission format will be 120hz alternating l/r images, yes? As much as I hate it (since I own a dual proj setup I just upgraded from polarized to infitec), I have to admit it is the most sensible methodology. Existing hardware (i.e., ps3) is allowed to join the game that way, and two cables = consumer confusion. However, there are enough dual-projector setups out there now, I can't conceive of them *not* coming up with some way to de-multiplex the 120hz pageflip signal into a dual 60hz output... Shouldn't be too technically difficult.

We are talking about home 3D here right ?

Art

I'm sort of surprised that commercial-quality home 3D might be coming soon. I thought one of the main reasons Hollywood is pushing new 3D technology these days is to keep selling movie tickets. That is, with the proliferation of home theater and people "cocooning" to stay home to watch movies, Hollywood wants to offer a new experience you can't get at home - hence the bandwagoning for 3D by the studios.

But if we are going to get this at home that seems to undercut that strategy.

(I'd also note that while 3D may be occasionally cool to experience, I'm not fond of the idea of having to put on special glasses to view movies very often in my set up).

Yes, and yes dual-projectors are relatively rare in home. But rare still translates to a lot, and I would bet it's enough to justify someone making a demultiplexer. They exist right now for other formats, and those other formats don't have nearly the adoption a truly universal format (as this should become) would. I can hope anyway! :D

I think the main issue with 3D will be the lack of content (i.e. BR 3D discs) for some time. How quickly are studios going to start filming in 3D and then selling 3D Br discs? That is the real question. Obviously there will be a 3D format war of sorts, so it is best wait on this for a couple years. See if the content arrives en masse.

I have some concerns over comfort....glasses and nausea. I am sure they will work out the nausea part pretty well, but I cant see me and my family wearing glasses while we watch.

I am more interested in LED and cheap BR discs!

3D will probably go the route of 3 strip Cinerama. Avatar will be the "HTW3" of 3D, but it will ultimately be a niche format.

I think the way Hollywood is pushing 3D along with the gaming industry, it has the potential to be more than a niche. Once the 3D Blu-Ray movies start rolling out in Q4 next year, that will start the availability of the content. The 3D glasses at $100 a pop are relatively cheap and leaves room to purchase 4 per household on average. Projectors and Televisions are constantly improving in all aspects so the introduction of 3D sets is inevitable in the mainstream.

I am quite sure that the next X-Box and Playstation systems will have HDMI 1.4 and the provision for 3D gameplay.

HDMI 1.4, 3D sets, 3D capable source, 3D Glasses is possibly where it may start to stabilize with focus on improvement rather than introduction of newer technology.

The only question in my mind right now is that 3D capable displays are going to be more or less in parallel with the introduction of LED Projectors. While 3D requires high brightness, LED is still quite far off from high brightness.

There are obviously a lot of factors that still need to be clarified like a set standard for the specs, the default AR for 3D movies and minimum refresh rate.

Saying that, I think after the next 5 years we will reach a point where there will be a hault to new technology for some time and a strong focus on improving and perfecting the 3D technology for the ultimate experience at home.

The industry needs 3D so that there is constant investment in the industry by the consumer. New projectors, new Blu-Ray players, double-dip for the existing Blu-Ray movie library in 3D (where applicable), 3D compatible screens (as odd as that sounds) and 3D glasses etc. That's a lot of kit to get on the 3D train. In the start it will be the early adopters but 3D guarantees that the purchases in a variety of areas is there. I can't see the whole industry not backing it with full force. It is beneficial to every type of manufacturer.

That's my thought on it for what it's worth.

we will see 3d products next year at a quality everyone like as it was
2x full hd and this is a improvment.
as i post here already this improve "beside the 3d" the visible resolution as both
frames (l+r) show not 100% the same image.
this + the 3d and guys we talking not about this funny ugly red any cyan glasses
or other copromise 3d system will bring us a biger stepp up in picture qualty than for sampe a 4k picture.

i know tests with normaly people.
they show them:
-2d full hd content
-4k content
-3d full hd content
all the same source material.

you know what most people say?
3d full hd is the best.

and for people dont like it or have doubts this system is backwards compatible.
if you not like to see 3d just use the 2d version.

3d tvs or 3d pr. will have in some time 3d inside at almost no extra costs.

as always early adaptors will have to pay a bit more at the beginnig.

so for 96% of the people(about 4% cant see 3d) it will be a huge stepp up.

problem "in the past" was the bad 3d technology and the wrong films
as the only story in most of this films are "he see how close i can come to
your eys":mad:

and believe me there is no way back when you get used to """perfect 3d""".

with perfect 3d i mean the you forgeth after 5 min. that you wear a
3d glass and you are in the middle of the movie and you never feel
discomfort.

i say this after i do 3d sice over 30 years.

There is no going back to br sure. The aspect ratio is another story, MVA proved that good Cinemascope is achievably.

There are some CinemaScope, framed inside a1.77 that uses the black borders on top and bottom (gforce) for fly out effects.

I continue to say that until one has not seen a Dolby wheel fitted Superkontrast playing triple flash 144 on a woven white screen, that one cannot opine about 3D for HT. That ladies is the very possible best to be achieved.

The panasonic giant plasma may be great too despite only double flash.

They have parked a huge triple width truck theater inside the Cedia show floor that is under constant monitoring from me to sneak an early demo. :D

With 1.4 HDMI output for 3D, what happens to TV's and projectors with dual DVI for 3D, do they become obsolete?

Well, I care, and I intend to setup the SuperKontrast 3-D lab with the necessary encoders, transcoders, decoders to be able to play all hd content on the series 2 Barco Platform, if possible with the Infitec/Dolby color system that does not suffer from the .002% L/R crosstalk that EVERY OTHER FORMAT DOES. And without the annoying perforated silver screen that looks like a giant colander /volleyball net.

My back probably has more arrow scars than anyone else when it comes to HT so I guess 3-D will be a cake walk in comparison.

I hope Dolby licenses Infitec for HT, or that Infitec themselves get something to the market at reasonable prices.
Buying directly from Infitec right now hikes the prices up so much that it would limit the tech for just the very high end HT's.

I personally have an "Infitec" setup with two projectors, (basically i just bought 5 pairs of Dolby 3d glasses and i'm using one pair as filters.) It looks perfect 90% of the time, but the lack of a color correction box (or really, just a proper ICC profile, since i use it for PC only.) makes the primary & secondary colors stand up too much in one eye and look too dim on the other, this is only on the brightest colors though. other than that it looks amazing.
The nice thing about Infitec is the viewing angles, and i'm using an Da-lite high power to compensate for the light loss and the results are very good.

I do get a bit of ghosting on the left eye, but i'm sure this is just because i'm using the glasses as filters, the "filters" are too curved and this gives a little bit of ghosting noticeable only really dark scenes.

I hope we get this tech available at the consumer level, i think it's by far the most appealing:
-No crosstalk
-No need for a special screen
-Good color (allmost perfect, very close to the original triangle once calibrated)
-Very good viewing angles.

Cons i guess are that glasses are a bit expensive and heavy since they're made of glass (not really a problem IMO.) and the fact that Infitec charges an arm and a leg if you buy from them directly, which is why i hope Dolby Labs. gets this to the market ASAP.

Infitec should only get better once we get RGB LED & laser light sources, since supposedly you need less color correction the wider the color space.

If i had color correction ICC profiles i'd be a really happy man (and bigger, less curved filters would be nice too i guess, but that's not really that big of a deal)

I hope some one brings this in time for Bluray 3d, it really is the best possible experience IMO.

Any chance of 3-D and no glasses?

no if you like to see a "good" 3d image.

all this talking about "without glasses" you should forgeth the next years
if you like a high quality 3d picture.

i know tests with normaly people.
they show them:
-2d full hd content
-4k content
-3d full hd content
all the same source material.

you know what most people say?
3d full hd is the best.

and for people dont like it or have doubts this system is backwards compatible.
if you not like to see 3d just use the 2d version.

i say this after i do 3d sice over 30 years.

Wolfgang,
You have identified some very nice and strong points in favour of 3D from your own experience which I feel will mostly become the majority opinion. People will inevitably prefer "3D Full HD" rather than "4K" in 2D because the "wow" factor is much more in a 3D plane. The feeling of being there is magnified.

The added advantage is the backwards compatibility which leaves the option to view 3D in 2D without any hassle.

This time Hollywood is going to do 3D properly IMO taking advantage of the technology. And this is not the old lame 3D effects where things just fly out of the middle of the screen thereby forcing 3D effects for the heck of it. It is more subtle and well blended within the storyline and action on-screen to make it more natural and smooth. The result is a more natural effect as if you were in the movie. Tron Legacy in Disney Digital 3D next year should be excellent amongst many other movies in the pipeline.

-> 30 years of watching 3D is way more than cool. :cool: I can't find an adjective to describe it aptly. Keep leading the way. Thumbs up! :)

With 1.4 HDMI output for 3D, what happens to TV's and projectors with dual DVI for 3D, do they become obsolete?

I can't imagine this will be anything but all new hardware pretty much across the board.

Art

To sum up (some of) the 3D systems;

RealD > In front of the lens polarizing attachment + silver screen + passive glasses.
New; RealD-XL explained here; The RealD-XL 3D system. Better, brighter 3D. (http://www.cinetechgeek.com/2009/07/06/the-reald-xl-3d-system-better-brighter-3d/)

Dolby 3D > Modification of lightpath/projector + normal screen + passive glasses + Light loss.

Infitec > Dual projectors filtered + normal screen + passive glasses + Light loss.

XpanD (http://www.xpandcinema.com/) > No modification of projector + normal screen + activ glasses & Ir emitter + No light loss.
(for some DLP equipment, ir emitter is not necessary)

Sony 4K projector can only do 3D in 2K with a dual lens version of RealD + that they work on their own 3Dtech. for BD (passive glasses)

Demo of XpanD active glasses (by cinetechgeek) here;
3D cinema brief overview and demo of XpanD 3D system. (http://www.cinetechgeek.com/2009/02/01/39/)
3D Glasses – LCD system by XpanD. (http://www.cinetechgeek.com/2009/02/10/3d-glasses-lcd-system-by-xpand/)

XpanD Can be used for many existing PC/Xbox games> XpanD 3D Gaming Station. (http://www.xpandcinema.com/products/gaming-station/)
Similar approach to 3D as Panasonic BD 3D tech and Nvida PC 3D system.

As the Dolby3D seems to be the preferred here for high end systems (or at least by Cineramax), are there anybody here that has tested XpanD and can tell why Dolby3D should be preferred over the XpanD system in a home theatre?

(in comercial cinemas the price of glasses becomes an issue, but from what I've heard, the XpanD glasses in large quantities has similar price as the Dolby glasses.)

With 1.4 HDMI output for 3D, what happens to TV's and projectors with dual DVI for 3D, do they become obsolete?

3-D and associated electronics will go through phases. With Panasonic and Sony being the early bird there is the battle being fought in the cinema. In the end I hope everything migrates to "one" winning system. In the meantime all our early adapter purchases will bring back memories of the HDDVD/Blue ray battle. Someones going to lose.

With 1.4 HDMI output for 3D, what happens to TV's and projectors with dual DVI for 3D, do they become obsolete?


Companies like gefen will make interface boxes.

How does this all play out for people like me who wear prescription glasses? (I am allergic to contacts.) I enjoy going to 3-D movies and tolerate wearing two pair of glasses simultaneously for a couple of hours. However I don't look forward to the day when I need to wear two pair every time I want to enjoy my system at home. At least with the cross-polarized version, I should be able to get a pair of prescription cross-polarized glasses to use in my theater and it probably wouldn't be prohibitively expensive in the overall cost of a home theater. But at the moment I don't see a path to a pair of prescription 'active' 3-D glasses.

On a related note, I am curious to see Fuji's upcoming stereo camera and the associated LCD picture frame that does 3-D without glasses. Perhaps if it works well, someone will eventually scale the technology up.


Duane

How does this all play out for people like me who wear prescription glasses? (I am allergic to contacts.) I enjoy going to 3-D movies and tolerate wearing two pair of glasses simultaneously for a couple of hours. However I don't look forward to the day when I need to wear two pair every time I want to enjoy my system at home. At least with the cross-polarized version, I should be able to get a pair of prescription cross-polarized glasses to use in my theater and it probably wouldn't be prohibitively expensive in the overall cost of a home theater. But at the moment I don't see a path to a pair of prescription 'active' 3-D glasses.

On a related note, I am curious to see Fuji's upcoming stereo camera and the associated LCD picture frame that does 3-D without glasses. Perhaps if it works well, someone will eventually scale the technology up.


Duane

Lasik.:)

Fortunately, my home theater obsession isn't that severe and I can still draw the line at body modifications! (Okay, I looked into Lasik a few years ago and at that time they wouldn't guarantee better than 20/80 with my extremely bad vision. It didn't seem worth the risk to just end up with thinner glasses.)


Duane

Wouldn't using 3D glasses be like wearing sunglasses indoors? Wouldn't this degrade the picture quality of the TV, and perhaps require you to crank up the brightness, etc? If so, wouldn't an LCD, with its brighter picture be better suited for this purpose?

On a related note, I am curious to see Fuji's upcoming stereo camera and the associated LCD picture frame that does 3-D without glasses. Perhaps if it works well, someone will eventually scale the technology up.

this is a pefect sample for what i post already.

a nice toy but if this is 3d people will not care about 3d.
since 30 years i hear "we have a system without glasses.

at ifa in berlin at the biggest consumer show for sample a company promis very good 3d without glasses.
“Charisma”
60" for only 32500 euro about 45500$!!!

again today no good 3d without glasses.

i think that the future anyway will be to have inside the glasses 2 monitors at each
full hd.


yes plasma gets dim when using it with shutter.
led have a lot more lumen but problems with ghosting.

DPI just released this press release, appears to be a gaming computer, but perhaps there is more to it?



Digital Projection Introduces Turnkey 3D Solution for Home Entertainment
Digital Projection International (DPI) and Mechdyne Corporation, the world's largest immersive visualization solutions company, have developed a turnkey 3D entertainment system, complete with custom media server, designed to provide a range of 3D content for home cinema applications. A powerful Windows based server is the heart of the Total 3D Experience System, which also utilizes the most advanced active 3D glasses, IR emitter and powerful graphics adapter. When paired with one of Digital Projection's 3D displays, the Total 3D Experience System presents 1080p images at 120Hz, creating the most dynamic, large scale, high resolution 3D entertainment imaginable.

Powerful 3D entertainment has long been a dream for the consumer market, but a standardized delivery system has not been available. The Total 3D Experience System fills that gap. The pre-configured packages are customizable, but every system includes:

• A TITAN or LIGHTNING 1080p 3D display, suitable for the scale of the home cinema
• The Dimension 3D server - a commercial-grade ultra high bandwidth multi-media powerhouse
• A high performance graphics adapter - capable of rendering 1080p gaming and HD content at frame rates up to 120 Hz
• Latest generation Blu-ray Drive - compatible with future Blu-ray 3D releases and current active stereo 3D movies
• Preloaded stereographic viewers, 3D games and 3D demonstration movies
• Active 3D glasses - for the highest quality 3D available
• Infra-red emitters to synchronize the server, projector and 3D glasses
• A pre-programmed iPod Touch™ that acts as a touchscreen system controller, complete with simple user interface
Combining all the hardware, software and media in one system, not to mention crafting a straightforward user interface to make 3D entertainment easy for anyone to enjoy, has been impossible until now. Recognizing the need for such a system, the display experts at Digital Projection turned to the 3D system experts at Mechdyne Corporation. With decades of experience integrating high performance 3D displays, servers and software for advanced commercial and military applications, Mechdyne has been integral in the development of this seamless, high performance 3D system for the high-end home entertainment market.

The beauty of the Dimension platform, the Mechdyne crafted 3D server that is the heart of the Total 3D Experience System, is its flexibility. It can be used as an engine for 3D gaming, as a source for streaming pre-loaded 3D media or as a tool for downloading new 3D content via 3D oriented websites on the internet. The Dimension server additionally includes a latest generation Blu-ray DVD drive that will support future 3D Blu-ray movies, which are expected to be plentiful in the near future. Furthermore, the Dimension server incorporates an advanced application that renders existing 2D DVD's as virtual 3D entertainment.

The Total 3D Experience Systems will be sold and delivered by Digital Projection. Home cinema enthusiasts investing in the Total 3D Experience System will receive customer support from both companies, with DPI supporting the projection displays and Mechdyne providing support on the balance of this advanced system. To assure Total 3D Experience customers can begin enjoying their 3D system right away, numerous 3D movie clips and games are provided pre-installed on the server. In addition, customers and integrators who purchase the Total 3D Experience System will receive periodic updates on newly released 3D content and how it may be obtained and enjoyed via the Dimension 3D server.

Acknowledging in advance that integrators will want an in-depth assessment of the 3D system, Mechdyne and DPI will be conducting 3D training workshops in the Digital Projection booth (#519) each day of the CEDIA show. These sessions will cover the essentials of 3D technology and delivery, as well as provide integrators the opportunity to ask questions of some of the most innovative 3D pioneers in the AV industry. The Workshops are expected to fill up quickly, so reserve your space via email by clicking here.

All of the necessary components have finally aligned to deliver the highest quality, truly immersive 3D home entertainment to the home cinema venue: server, content, user interface, and a DPI 3D display for the ultimate presentation. The Total 3D Experience System brings the latest 3D movies, games and events home, for an extraordinary entertainment experience.

Back to Headlines

To sum up (some of) the 3D systems;

RealD > In front of the lens polarizing attachment + silver screen + passive glasses.
New; RealD-XL explained here; The RealD-XL 3D system. Better, brighter 3D. (http://www.cinetechgeek.com/2009/07/06/the-reald-xl-3d-system-better-brighter-3d/)

Dolby 3D > Modification of lightpath/projector + normal screen + passive glasses + Light loss.

Infitec > Dual projectors filtered + normal screen + passive glasses + Light loss.

XpanD (http://www.xpandcinema.com/) > No modification of projector + normal screen + activ glasses & Ir emitter + No light loss.
(for some DLP equipment, ir emitter is not necessary)

Sony 4K projector can only do 3D in 2K with a dual lens version of RealD + that they work on their own 3Dtech. for BD (passive glasses)

Demo of XpanD active glasses (by cinetechgeek) here;
3D cinema brief overview and demo of XpanD 3D system. (http://www.cinetechgeek.com/2009/02/01/39/)
3D Glasses – LCD system by XpanD. (http://www.cinetechgeek.com/2009/02/10/3d-glasses-lcd-system-by-xpand/)

XpanD Can be used for many existing PC/Xbox games> XpanD 3D Gaming Station. (http://www.xpandcinema.com/products/gaming-station/)
Similar approach to 3D as Panasonic BD 3D tech and Nvida PC 3D system.

As the Dolby3D seems to be the preferred here for high end systems (or at least by Cineramax), are there anybody here that has tested XpanD and can tell why Dolby3D should be preferred over the XpanD system in a home theatre?

(in comercial cinemas the price of glasses becomes an issue, but from what I've heard, the XpanD glasses in large quantities has similar price as the Dolby glasses.)

couple of clarifications:
-dolby = infitec, basically. Dolby licenses the tech from infitec and sells to theaters. They don't actually market or sell directly to consumers (though I REALLY hope they will start!)

xpand :
- xpand is active shutter from what I can tell. If that's correct, there is some percieved light loss (since each eye is "shut off" half the time), just as with infitec.
- You mention that the xpand system would be compatible with existing projectors - I bet that's not correct (or the system is inferior, either way...). The reason I say that is, a shutter system would need a double-speed display (120hz), and most existing projectors/displays are not capable of that. A shutter system can sometimes be slowed to more 'normal' refresh rates, but that generates flicker problems.
- looking at the gaming stuff you pointed out, I believe it's only PC games, not xbox. They mention providing xbox controllers, but xbox controllers can be connected to a PC - and making an xbox or xbox 360 render in 3d would require modifying the actual firmware, something I'd be very surprised if they did :) unfortunately, their list of supported games is rather ... paltry. I think if PC gaming is what you're looking for, Iz3d or Nvidia are much better solutions (both simply layer on top of Directx, so both support almost any modern 3d pc game). Nvidia also uses shutter glasses, whereas iz3d has two options - their monitor (which is using polarized, but is rumored to switch to circular like reald soon), or their driver (which supports many types of outputs, including dual-monitor, meaning you can use it with - for example - infitec/dolby :) )

Comparing the two --
I think the biggest two things are cost (theoretically), and that some people claim to be bothered by shutter glasses (headaches, apparent flicker, etc). I personally have no problem with them, but some do. I say cost is a theoretical advantage - Dolby glasses are reputed to sell at around $25 to theaters, but I've yet to find *any* means of acquiring them as a consumer. I tried for months to find anyone who would sell them at all, and could not. So that price may be completely meaningless... And infitec glasses are much heftier at $100+, putting them near the price of active. If dolby glasses can be found for consumers at that price or similar, I'd be VERY surprised if any active shutter glasses could come anywhere close.

having said that, I'm rapidly becoming convinced that the color correction hardware actually is necessary. I've tried using the color correction settings in my projector as well as the color correction settings of my ATI card, and the ranges simply aren't wide enough to properly correct for infitec filters.

As for light, I believe infitec/dolby probably has similar light loss compared to an active shutter system, but I also think light loss is an over-analyzed concept in 3d. For watching a movie/game/whatever, the important thing is comparative light. For example, if the room is bright, you want a brighter display. Nearly every 3d system I'm aware of dims both ambient light (via the glasses) and displayed light (via filters or shutters) to a similar degree, meaning the light from your display should still be similarly brighter than the ambient light of your environment.



so basically, dolby has a greater initial cost (slightly if you don't need color correction, significantly if you do), but a lower glasses cost (if you can find dolby glasses). Both have excellent separation and don't need special screen. Both can be done with gaming systems (I just played some wolfenstein and the arkham asylum demo on my infitec system :) ).

So which is better has a lot of variables - can you find dolby glasses? Do shutters hurt your eye/head? Given what you want in a projector, what's the cost comparison between a 120hz projector (still a bit rare and expensive) and two 60hz projectors? how many people are you going to want to watch at once (if only one, glasses price is almost irrelevant)?


heh - I started this post meaning to explain why dolby/infitec is better, ended up convincing myself that unless color correction is completely resolved and dolby glasses become readily available, shutters are better for many people. In retrospect, myself included :) But having said that, I love my infitec system, and I believe both systems work brilliantly.

DPI just released this press release, appears to be a gaming computer, but perhaps there is more to it?



Their system is for gaming. Im temped to build a machine and pick up a few sim games. Id love to drive around in a GT3 in 3D:eek:

Wolfgang,

This is the person that can point you to the right answer:

reillyj@us.panasonic.com - Jim Reilly

till today no any answer.
seams he dont know or not can tell.

to bad.

couple of clarifications:
-dolby = infitec, basically. Dolby licenses the tech from infitec and sells to theaters. They don't actually market or sell directly to consumers (though I REALLY hope they will start!)

right but dolby develop under the license a mutch better system.

as i was in contact with the boss from infitec since long time(he vist my cinema as well several times)
i can tell you that the dolby version have

-better color
-more light
-better extinction in the corners

reason is the infitec system are a universal system that works with most pr. that
have all the kinds of lamps inside and it was develop to work with led dlp and lcos pr.

the new dolby was a new development "for only 3 chip dlp cinema pr. with xenon".
so it will work only in this combination and not with other pr. or lamp tech.

every 3d technic have there pro and con but important is where they use the system.

for sample in a privat cinema the 3d glasses costs are not that important
in a cinema it will be very important.

shutter kills more light (at least the very good one) as compare to polarizer.
at home for a small screen its may not a big problem but at a 16m wide screen
it is a huge problem.

So which is better has a lot of variables - can you find dolby glasses?

If it wasn't for Dolby, i would have never tried Infitec.
Infitec is obviously targeting the profesional market only, and the prices on their stuff is more like paying a "license" than anything else.

The color correction box goes for about 2k, the filters another 2k, cheap glasses (smaller than the Dolby ones.) are 100 bucks, and "pro" glasses (considerably bigger than the Dolby ones.) are ~400.

Enter Dolby 3d... you can't find the glasses anywhere online, so you have to call a cinema equipment dealer. (they will in turn, contact Dolby and Dolby themselves can ship any number of glasses, apparently there is no minimum.)

And all of a sudden it becomes a lot cheaper, around $26 a pair.

I think that if Dolby gets a a License for HT it would be the best solution available for the end user IMO. (i don't know if Infitec would have the infrastructure required to do meet the consumer market needs.)

...you have to call a cinema equipment dealer. (they will in turn, contact Dolby and Dolby themselves can ship any number of glasses, apparently there is no minimum.)
You've had success with that method? I tried who knows how many different dealers - some wouldn't return calls, some said they'd check and call me back, some said they just wouldn't deal with consumers... Any advice on which one(s) will actually sell to consumers? I only have 2 pr of glasses now, and I'm needing about 6, so trying to hold out until I find someone who'll sell dolby! :)


I think that if Dolby gets a a License for HT it would be the best solution available for the end user IMO. (i don't know if Infitec would have the infrastructure required to do meet the consumer market needs.)

Completely agreed! :)

I was at IFA, and all the major CE manufacturers had some 3D demo, some more impressive than others. the Panny demo was imho much hyped but quite lack lustre. Sony had a decent demo using LCD TVs. Over a quarter of their show floor was dedicated to 3D demos covering both games and movies, full details not yet out, however the enginners from Japan, expect their solution to be available in Spring 2010 with a possible PS3 type solution. 3D on the FP side primarily still involves using 2 projectors with a polariser and software, JVC had a decent demo with 2 HD950 however diminished light output appeared to be an issue.

Looks like 2010 will see the rollout out of 3D solutions, in the home, I think the biggest challenge at the moment is having a solution that doesn't invole users changing their current displays. I think Sony's proposed firmware upgrade solution to the PS3 is very promising.

On the broadcast side, Sky the UK satellite company is planning a 3D rollout on it HD set up boxes by summer 2010, details are still sketchy on progamme content, however on the hardware side their intention is to use existing HD boxes with a firmware upgrade.

From the demos I saw, it seemd the options were

1. Using new display technology with or without the need for glasses, Samsung had an interesting prototype.

2. Using a kind of set top box solution that contained the 3D chip and plugging that into existing displays

3. Firmware upgrade of existing hardware.

Whatever the chosen route it does seem like effective 3D for home vewing will start to become available to consumers in 2010.

"I have GOT to get me one of these"
I went to a large local store today to browse for a new projector.Panasonic had a truck in their parking lot with their 3D demo, playing on a very large plasma. It used LCD glasses that synched with the TV and a Blu-ray player. They played demo material including sports from the recent Olympics and a trailer for Avatar. The picture was spectacular. It actually made me strongly reconsider getting a new projector, until this equipment is available. While I have read that there will be fornat wars, I have to say that this format is an absolute winner.

David
__________________
DES

Saw the panasonic demo on 60 Fps olympics it is fantastic, on 3/2 Pullup 24 frame per second UP and GrandCanyon Imax played at 120 it looks like garbage. The bda 3d comitee is considering all options it is time for us to take this matter in to our owns hands.

Let's start a petition and email campaign. We need to have the option of triple flash 24 at home.

Wolfgang,

This is the person that can point you to the right answer:

reillyj@us.panasonic.com - Jim Reilly

almost a month and still no answer!

Yes it turns out that they cannot give any information because the BDA is in comitee and there is no final standard agreed to. I met someone at Panasonic CEDIA that explained that the studios representative want to accommodate 24 fps (maybe with triple flash), so it could happen. I am afraid that these negotiations are behind closed doors and that 120hz 3/2 pullup is going to be forced down consumers throats. That is the way UP and Grand Canyon were shown(120hz) and they looked quite bad compared to the 3-D Winter Olympics which looked fantastic.

So the reason no one from Panasonic can share their technical spec at the moment is because it is still being defined by the 3-D committee of the BDA. I wish we had the email address of this committee because 120 hz for 24fps originated content is a crime.

So the reason no one from Panasonic can share their technical spec at the moment is because it is still being defined by the 3-D committee of the BDA. I wish we had the email address of this committee because 120 hz for 24fps originated content is a crime.Keith Jack posts in various 3D threads in the HDTV Software Media discussion forum answering questions about the BDA's selected format, which is based in major part on Panasonic's proposal but not exactly the same. Keith is now with Sigma Designs, a BD, IPTV, HDTV decoder supplier, but is better known for his book "Video Demystified." Why not post a question there for him on this exact issue?

my guess is that the final bd 3d specs will hava a 24p 3d out standart.

may first 3d displays are not can do this in triple flash(2x 72 hz).
the next gereration displays can do it for sure.

at the moment only plasma is fast enough to display 2x 72 hz beside the
dci barco nec and christie dlp cinema pr.:)

but may panasonic will all surprise us.

seams we have to wait and see......

So the reason no one from Panasonic can share their technical spec at the moment is because it is still being defined by the 3-D committee of the BDA. I wish we had the email address of this committee because 120 hz for 24fps originated content is a crime.kjack addressed that this is not within the realm of what the BDA is addressing here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17187872#post17187872

As I see it the BDA will address what comes out of the player. You need to address it with the display manufacturers if they choose to take that 24p 3D content and display it at 120Hz instead of things like 96Hz, 144Hz, or 240Hz.

--Darin

The output is definitive hdmi 1.4, but the panasonic rep said there may be adapter boxes for dual dvi and others....

Maybe something like this:
http://www.doremilabs.com/pdf/GHX3D3.pdf

Im going to guess next year Cedia we will hear some more marketing about 3D on a larger scale but no delivery of hardware or content because the battle will still be raging the D Cinema. By time the dust settles we will all find ourselves needing to up date our equipment again.

at the moment only plasma is fast enough to display 2x 72 hz beside the
dci barco nec and christie dlp cinema pr.:)


I recently visited DP in Manchester, and I was told the DP Titan 3D models, can also display 2 x 72 Hz. Strange, they don't mention it in the spec sheet on their website.

I recently visited DP in Manchester, and I was told the DP Titan 3D models, can also display 2 x 72 Hz. Strange, they don't mention it in the spec sheet on their website.

yes also older cinema pr. can do it but the question is can they do 2x 72 hz
at full resolution in 2048x 1080?

as dp use the 1920x 1080 dms i doubt the can do it as till today
the only the 0,98 cinema dms can do it and sice some weeks
the older 1.2" dms that get a upgrade.

if not the simply shrink the resolution to about 1600x 900.

thats how 95% of all cinemas show 3d at the moment.

I am in favor of stereoscopic 3D although my vision probably would not benefit much from this advancement in technology.
However do we want to be stuck with 24p origination forever. I would love to see extremely sharp 3k or 4k 48p-72p origination whatever works best technically.

And I want to see not 24, not 48, not 60, not 72, not 240, but at least 480, preferably 600 or even 720 frames per second origination. Clean frames without the need for motion blur, even at 4K or 8K resolution.

I have found it quite remarkable that our resident MTF evangelist is still promoting 24P;-).

yes also older cinema pr. can do it but the question is can they do 2x 72 hz
at full resolution in 2048x 1080?


No, the DP machines are 1920 x 1080. Which is fine for BD playback (maybe I missed something, but the threat title is "BD 3D details start to trickle out..." ;) ), but you're right, it is not well suited for use in Cinemas.