ok lets try this for the kyle timeline explanation.

john told Marcus Wright that kyle reese was the his father. with this knowledge in his head he was downloaded at skynet. now skynet has this knowledge which was is downloaded to terminators that were sent into the past. the past terminatrix sends this information to skynet in the past when it comes to the present the knowledge is already there. since we dont know the future of skynets destruction is we dont know at what time the terminators were sent back in time, it might have been a last effort of survival of skynet. at that point in time skynet may have sent all the terminators at the same time to different points in time. we dont know enough about kyle if he was adopted or born from parents. if he was adopted the birthing parents names may not have been recorded. All skynet would know about kyle reese is that he was the father of john connor. he may not even have been of this country and been here with his adopted parents on a vacation of sorts or a runaway when everything broke loose. there is to much unknown to actually make any logical conclusions of skynets knowledge of kyle reese. kyle reese may not even be his real name :)

I have now seen the Terminator: Salvation BD and am even more ambivalent about it now than I was after I saw it in the theater. Its biggest virtue is that it both looks and sounds GREAT! The special effects and audio are spectacular. Unfortunately, that was not enough to overcome the terminal stupidity of most of the story. I felt sorry for Christian Bale, as John Connor. Bale was given such a slender story he was left to spew spittle, wince, shout, and growl in an attempt to breath life into it. It didn't work, it seems to me.

The only aspect of the film, other than its look and sound, that kept it from going onto my most boring films list, was the thread involving Marcus Wright, excellently played by by Sam Worthington. I thought it was original and often surprising. Because of that and only that I finally decided that Terminator: Salvation, while really not a good film, doesn't miss being one by much. It's still better that T3, I think, but is not in the same world as T1 and T2.

well they get another shot at it with Terminator 5 :D

It's still better that T3, I think, but is not in the same world as T1 and T2.

I'm not sure I would even put it above T3. To me, Salvation was about on par with Transformers Revenge of the Fallen - a lot of mindless action with little substance. It did look and sound greath though.

I'm not sure I would even put it above T3. To me, Salvation was about on par with Transformers Revenge of the Fallen - a lot of mindless action with little substance. It did look and sound greath though.
Yeah, as I was watching those mind numbingly stupid early war scenes in T4, Transformers 2 did come to mind. But Transformers 2 was stupid from beginning to end, whereas, I thought the Marcus Wright thread in T4 was quite well done. What both T4 and Transformers 2 have in common, though, is to prove that spectacular special effects and great audio were not enough to rescue either. As a wise man once put it, "You can't fix stupid.":)

ok lets try this for the kyle timeline explanation.

it might have been a last effort of survival of skynet.

We know that to be true. Kyle said so in the first movie. Kyle Reese: "It had no choice. Their defense grid was smashed. We'd won. Taking out Connor then would make no difference. Skynet had to wipe out his entire existence! " http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088247/quotes

I have now seen the Terminator: Salvation BD and am even more ambivalent about it now than I was after I saw it in the theater. Its biggest virtue is that it both looks and sounds GREAT! The special effects and audio are spectacular. Unfortunately, that was not enough to overcome the terminal stupidity of most of the story. I felt sorry for Christian Bale, as John Connor. Bale was given such a slender story he was left to spew spittle, wince, shout, and growl in an attempt to breath life into it. It didn't work, it seems to me.

The only aspect of the film, other than its look and sound, that kept it from going onto my most boring films list, was the thread involving Marcus Wright, excellently played by by Sam Worthington. I thought it was original and often surprising. Because of that and only that I finally decided that Terminator: Salvation, while really not a good film, doesn't miss being one by much. It's still better that T3, I think, but is not in the same world as T1 and T2.

Apparently it was Bale that ruined the movie by asking for his role to be changed, and that the end should be changed, and that he should have more screen time. Members of the Av Forums said that the original end was much better. I avoided searching for the original end however as I had not seen the film yet. Having watched the film I quite liked it, and still haven't looked for the changes that Bale made.

Apparently it was Bale that ruined the movie by asking for his role to be changed, and that the end should be changed, and that he should have more screen time. Members of the Av Forums said that the original end was much better. I avoided searching for the original end however as I had not seen the film yet. Having watched the film I quite liked it, and still haven't looked for the changes that Bale made.
Bale was, by far, the worst part of this movie. The rest of the movie was a masterpiece by comparison. Every scene with him in it makes me want to fast forward to the next part without him.

Bale was, by far, the worst part of this movie. The rest of the movie was a masterpiece by comparison. Every scene with him in it makes me want to fast forward to the next part without him.

I agree. I was a Bale fan before seeing this film but now I've become soured on him. He needs to be brought down a few notches.

I agree. I was a Bale fan before seeing this film but now I've become soured on him. He needs to be brought down a few notches.While I think he's a whining cry baby, I usually don't have a problem with him in any of his movies, and I happen to think he's a fine actor. I just thought he sucked the life out of this one.

I'm not sure I would even put it above T3. To me, Salvation was about on par with Transformers Revenge of the Fallen - a lot of mindless action with little substance. It did look and sound greath though.

Terminator Salvation is at least 100 times better than Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen if for no other reason than that its machines don't fart or have vestigial testicles. Or John Turturro in revealing undies... ;)

I'm really quite surprised that I enjoyed this movie as much as I did. I absolutely hated T3 and would have walked out of the theater had I not been at a drive-in. With Salvation I was glad that the filmmakers at least tried something new with the mythology. And while McG is certainly no auteur, I have to give him credit for stepping outside of his comfort zone. They had some interesting concepts and even though they couldn't make them all work right in the execution, at least they tried.

And I still use this disc to demo my HT... to myself. :D

TS was one of the biggest letdowns of 2009.

I didn't think it was. I thought 2009 was a bumper crop for sci-fi, actually.

TS was one of the biggest letdowns of 2009.

Agreed....and Watchmen.
I expected so much more from these two.:(

Agreed....and Watchmen.
I expected so much more from these two.:(
I liked Watchmen. Salvation was what I expected it to be, so I really wasn't let down.

I didn't think it was. I thought 2009 was a bumper crop for sci-fi, actually.

Really? Star Trek, Moon, District 9??? I thought it was a pretty good year for sci-fi, if you picked the right flicks!

Yeah, that is what I was trying to say. I didn't think 2009 was a bad year for sci-fi. I thought it was an unusually good year.

Terminator Salvation is at least 100 times better than Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen if for no other reason than that its machines don't fart or have vestigial testicles. Or John Turturro in revealing undies... ;)

I'm really quite surprised that I enjoyed this movie as much as I did. I absolutely hated T3 and would have walked out of the theater had I not been at a drive-in. With Salvation I was glad that the filmmakers at least tried something new with the mythology. And while McG is certainly no auteur, I have to give him credit for stepping outside of his comfort zone. They had some interesting concepts and even though they couldn't make them all work right in the execution, at least they tried.

And I still use this disc to demo my HT... to myself. :D

I'm in Gekkou's camp. I had low expectations based on McG as the director but I was pleasantly surprised. There are a number of scenes in this film that show off his ability as a director...in a good way.:D I've watched it several times already and will end up watching it again. No problems with Bale as Connor, and Worthington was great. Time travel usually ends up in a narrative train wreck so some, but not an excessive amount I thought, suspension of disbelief was in order. When we rolled over to 2010 a couple weeks ago, my son (11 yo) reminded me that it would only be 8 years until we would be doing battle with Terminators.

my son (11 yo) reminded me that it would only be 8 years until we would be doing battle with Terminators.

Might not be too bad.. Arnie's getting on a bit now! :D

Really? Star Trek, Moon, District 9??? I thought it was a pretty good year for sci-fi, if you picked the right flicks!
Yeah, that is what I was trying to say. I didn't think 2009 was a bad year for sci-fi. I thought it was an unusually good year.
I agree that 2009 was a very good year for Sci-fi. Moon was a well made, intriguing film and District 9 and the new Star Trek seem to be on their way to becoming sci-fi classics.

I think that Bale and his acting along with script/story changes he requested ruined this movie. While not completely bad, it could have been really good. Sam Worthington saved it. And McG is responsible for all this crap being allowed.

Bale is overated as an actor and lately all he does is yell.

I think that Bale and his acting along with script/story changes he requested ruined this movie. While not completely bad, it could have been really good. Sam Worthington saved it. And McG is responsible for all this crap being allowed.

Bale is overated as an actor and lately all he does is yell.

Anyway, on what site are these changes summarised?

and lately all he does is yell.
My 5 year old daughter walked into the room as
Bale was shooting the terminator in the beginning with the crashed helicopter gun,
and asked, "Why is he yelling?" I just told her it was Hollywood.

I liked Watchmen.

Me too. I thought the theatrical version was good but disappointing. However, the recently-released Ultimate Cut is exceptional. Superb filmmaking and one of my favorites of the year. But...the sex scene (and some of Malin Ackerman's line readings) remain terrible and laughable.

Me too. I thought the theatrical version was good but disappointing. However, the recently-released Ultimate Cut is exceptional. Superb filmmaking and one of my favorites of the year. But...the sex scene (and some of Malin Ackerman's line readings) remain terrible and laughable.Yep. Agree completely. I really wish she was replaced with another actress. Maybe one who could act and didn't have such a huge friggin' head.

The same can be said about one of my disappointments in Salvation. Moon Bloodgood just doesn't strike me as a believable post-apocalyptic Warthog pilot. Maybe I just don't get out enough...

Me too. I thought the theatrical version was good but disappointing. However, the recently-released Ultimate Cut is exceptional. Superb filmmaking and one of my favorites of the year. But...the sex scene (and some of Malin Ackerman's line readings) remain terrible and laughable.

I wish I could find the Ultimate Cut for rent:( Dont want to buy it, but would like to see it. I really enjoyed the theatrical version.

It could have been Charlie's Angels bad! :eek: Now if T4 turned out like that, no doubt I would have been disappointed.

I wish I could find the Ultimate Cut for rent:( Dont want to buy it, but would like to see it. I really enjoyed the theatrical version.

For the $30 bucks it, cost the UC is one of the most nicely packaged discs I own. After seeing it, I can never watch the theatrical cut again. With the 8-hr animated comic, and INSIDE THE MASK feature (brilliant)...it is probably the most bang-for-the-buck BD disc I've ever bought! But if the UC is out-of-the-question, try renting the Director's Cut at least. That one is also an improvement on the theatrical version.

I think that Bale and his acting along with script/story changes he requested ruined this movie. While not completely bad, it could have been really good. Sam Worthington saved it. And McG is responsible for all this crap being allowed.

Bale is overated as an actor and lately all he does is yell.

Well the Terminator franchise has never been about introspection as far as I'm concerned. ;) I think his next movie will show once again that he has quite a wide range. I'm not blindly defending him, I just like him a lot as an actor. But starring in an action sci-fi movie is one thing, and Rescue Dawn, Machinist, or the upcoming The Fighter is another.

Well the Terminator franchise has never been about introspection as far as I'm concerned. ;) I think his [Christian Bale's] next movie will show once again that he has quite a wide range. I'm not blindly defending him, I just like him a lot as an actor. But starring in an action sci-fi movie is one thing, and Rescue Dawn, Machinist, or the upcoming The Fighter is another.
I agree. Bale's John Connor character as written was flat and boring. I suspect that this is why Bale resorted to such an over-the-top, spittle slinging, growling, shouting performance. Despite how painful he was to watch in T4, I expect much better things from Bale when he is given more to work with. Let's face it, McG is just an action flick guy with limited skills. I guess that Bale saw that and tried to do something about it but saving T4 was beyond even Bale's formidable skills.

I agree. Bale's John Connor character as written was flat and boring. I suspect that this is why Bale resorted to such an over-the-top, spittle slinging, growling, shouting performance. Despite how painful he was to watch in T4, I expect much better things from Bale when he is given more to work with. Let's face it, McG is just an action flick guy with limited skills. I guess that Bale saw that and tried to do something about it but saving T4 was beyond even Bale's formidable skills.His character in T4 looks like it was written after they already finished the movie without him. Almost like an afterthought.

You just wait till Terminator: The Musical comes out... :confused:

His character in T4 was an afterthought. He was supposed to play the part of the Terminator and he decided to switch if I am correct. One reason Worthingtons role is so big.

And then to fix the switch they had to change the ending and therefore ruined the movie.

I really wish James Cameron would just buy the rights with all his new cash and just save the franchise. The rest of these suits are just going to continue to ruin what once a great franchise.

I really wish James Cameron would just buy the rights with all his new cash and just save the franchise. The rest of these suits are just going to continue to ruin what once a great franchise.

I read the other day the current price is 15m.

His character in T4 was an afterthought. He was supposed to play the part of the Terminator and he decided to switch if I am correct. One reason Worthingtons role is so big.

No, he was supposed to be killed off, and overall his role was supposed to be a minor one.

I thought he was supposed to play the Terminator and then when John Connor dies, they transplant his brain or something into the Terminator. That's what I read somewhere.

Watch this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA_jY_LIjtA

He Is Our Salvation.

No, he was supposed to be killed off, and overall his role was supposed to be a minor one.Whatever his original story was supposed to be, he was either miscast and/or written badly.

Really? Star Trek, Moon, District 9??? I thought it was a pretty good year for sci-fi, if you picked the right flicks!

Bumper crop means an excess of something. He was saying the same thing as you.

His character in T4 looks like it was written after they already finished the movie without him. Almost like an afterthought.
Just my $0.02 worth. Conner is supposed to be flat or boring. The guy would be burnt out given he's been fighting these things since he was a kid.

I am sure most of you have read online. But if you do a search and read the original ideas, some stuff was good and some stuff was absolutely crazy. But the only way to fix this franchise is to give it back to Cameron or it will NEVER be the same.

If they reboot it, they should look to the guys from Lost. They did a good job with StarTrek. But what ever they do, they should NOT give it back to McG. His idea for the next movie will completely destroy the whole franchise. It is absolutely stupid.

If they reboot it, they should look to the guys from Lost. They did a good job with StarTrek. But what ever they do, they should NOT give it back to McG. His idea for the next movie will completely destroy the whole franchise. It is absolutely stupid.
I agree that the new Star Trek is a remarkable picture, an instant sci-fi classic. I also agree that, at all costs, steps must be taken to insure that the semi-talented McG is not allowed to do any more damage to the Terminator franchise. In fairness to McG, though, the mess that T4 turned out to be was probably foreordained by the powers in charge having the same guys write the T4 screenplay who had written the ordinary at best T3.

In fairness to McG, though, the mess that T4 turned out to be was probably foreordained by the powers in charge having the same guys write the T4 screenplay who had written the ordinary at best T3.

I agree about T4. But his ideas for T5 are terrible. He wants to bring the whole war back to the present. IDIOT is all can say about him.

I agree that the new Star Trek is a remarkable picture, an instant sci-fi classic. I also agree that, at all costs, steps must be taken to insure that the semi-talented McG is not allowed to do any more damage to the Terminator franchise. In fairness to McG, though, the mess that T4 turned out to be was probably foreordained by the powers in charge having the same guys write the T4 screenplay who had written the ordinary at best T3.

This set the bar as to how well you can do a reboot. The Terminator franchise still has lots of good potential and, whomever does it, should set their expectation at the Star Trek level.

Just my $0.02 worth. Conner is supposed to be flat or boring. The guy would be burnt out given he's been fighting these things since he was a kid.I'm fine with the character being flat and boring. My issue is that Conner, in this movie, didn't even seem to belong here at all. Kind of like a fan made Youtube video cutting parts of different movies together.

I'm fine with the character being flat and boring. My issue is that Conner, in this movie, didn't even seem to belong here at all. Kind of like a fan made Youtube video cutting parts of different movies together.

ultimately, this was the biggest issue I had with the movie. The main premise in the first movies was JC was THE man that led the resistance to victory over the machines. But in T4 JC just did not seem integral to the resistance. MCG really whiffed when it came to showing the impact JC was having. It was assumed in the movie but never shown to make us buy into it.

ultimately, this was the biggest issue I had with the movie. The main premise in the first movies was JC was THE man that led the resistance to victory over the machines. But in T4 JC just did not seem integral to the resistance. MCG really whiffed when it came to showing the impact JC was having. It was assumed in the movie but never shown to make us buy into it.

Exactly right.
T4 was supposed to be about JC leading a successful fight against Skynet.
Instead, we got some sideshow about a different kind of Terminator that was about as threatening as my kitty cat.
WTF?!?
Where is the TENSION....THE DRAMA???

Way, way off....

The main guy in this was amazing.

They could of saved a good amount of money by just getting rid of Bale and keeping Worthington as Conner. And they could focus on a better story and stop trying to shock us with killing JC. We were told how he dies so why not come up with a good story based on the war against the machines. The Terminator doesn't need to be like Arnold. We already have seen that also.

Just spend sometime with a story and characters and get a good director instead of clowns like McG. If he wants to make movies based on his stupid ideas go and make them with out using the Terminator franchise.

They could of saved a good amount of money by just getting rid of Bale and keeping Worthington as Conner. And they could focus on a better story and stop trying to shock us with killing JC. We were told how he dies so why not come up with a good story based on the war against the machines. The Terminator doesn't need to be like Arnold. We already have seen that also.

Just spend sometime with a story and characters and get a good director instead of clowns like McG. If he wants to make movies based on his stupid ideas go and make them with out using the Terminator franchise.

McG was good in Charlie's Angels though. That time he showed the three girls walking together shoulder to shoulder like they were going to kick some serious tail. And then later they all fell down and then got back up. Genius.

The main guy in this was amazing.The problem with this movie is that we don't know who you're talking about: Bale or Worthington.

The problem with this movie is that we don't know who you're talking about: Bale or Worthington.

I would say most people think the "main guy" was worthington. he had much more screen time, and the movie certainly seemed to center on him more.

imho

I would say most people think the "main guy" was worthington. he had much more screen time, and the movie certainly seemed to center on him more.

imhoI think that way, too, but my point is that it's not clear. Who the villain is and who the hero is are two important aspects that need to be very clear, and they're just not. To say "Skynet" was the villain is too much of a generalization. It needed a more immediate threat.

I think that way, too, but my point is that it's not clear. Who the villain is and who the hero is are two important aspects that need to be very clear, and they're just not. To say "Skynet" was the villain is too much of a generalization. It needed a more immediate threat.
I thought that the very ambiguity of the Marcus Wright character, played by Sam Worthington, saved the movie from being a complete disaster. He seems to be a hero -- sort of -- and then not. By the end of the movie, it was clear that he was far from a hero but he was a sympathetic fellow, nonetheless. In stark contrast, the John Connor character, played by Christian Bale, was a one note, vanilla, hero, who I thought was about as interesting as Clark Kent without his cape or Bruce Wayne without his cowl. Bale apparently realized it, too, which led to his over the top performance.

ultimately, this was the biggest issue I had with the movie. The main premise in the first movies was JC was THE man that led the resistance to victory over the machines. But in T4 JC just did not seem integral to the resistance. MCG really whiffed when it came to showing the impact JC was having. It was assumed in the movie but never shown to make us buy into it.

I took it that JC was eventually to become the head of the resistance, but you don't just get to be "that guy" right off the bat. So this was more of a look at JC's rise to that position. Now that the senior leadership has been defeated, there is only him left to keep the movement going. JC's impact is that he managed to survive by his unconventional sensibilities, which the machines just cannot figure out. The senior leadership was wiped-out because the machines knew exactly how they operate and how to exploit that.

I thought that the very ambiguity of the Marcus Wright character, played by Sam Worthington, saved the movie from being a complete disaster. He seems to be a hero -- sort of -- and then not. By the end of the movie, it was clear that he was far from a hero but he was a sympathetic fellow, nonetheless. In stark contrast, the John Connor character, played by Christian Bale, was a one note, vanilla, hero, who I thought was about as interesting as Clark Kent without his cape or Bruce Wayne without his cowl. Bale apparently realized it, too, which led to his over the top performance.As hard as I sound like I'm being on the movie, I still thought it was watchable. Certainly not my favorite, but the combination of Worthington, picture quality, and sound quality make it decent enough. Worthington was pretty much the ONLY redeeming human element in this film, which is ironic, given his character.

I took it that JC was eventually to become the head of the resistance, but you don't just get to be "that guy" right off the bat.

What is missing from the story is what Kyle tells Sarah about in the first film. That all the surviving humans (after the war we now know as Judgement Day) were rounded up (some to kept alive to work) in camps for termination and Conner rebelled, rose up and stormed the camps froming the resistance. Given that the war happened in 2004 (acording the time line in T3), all this good stuff has been skipped in favour of focusing on restoring the original Terminator from the first film.

As hard as I sound like I'm being on the movie, I still thought it was watchable. Certainly not my favorite, but the combination of Worthington, picture quality, and sound quality make it decent enough. Worthington was pretty much the ONLY redeeming human element in this film, which is ironic, given his character.
Oh, you bet! I agree that it was watchable, thanks almost entirely to Sam Worthington's performance. Come to think of it, "watchable" is probably the best we could have expected from McG. What a hack!

I took it that JC was eventually to become the head of the resistance, but you don't just get to be "that guy" right off the bat. So this was more of a look at JC's rise to that position. Now that the senior leadership has been defeated, there is only him left to keep the movement going. JC's impact is that he managed to survive by his unconventional sensibilities, which the machines just cannot figure out. The senior leadership was wiped-out because the machines knew exactly how they operate and how to exploit that.


Exactly! You have to save something for T5:cool:

Thats the problem with T4. The main character is Worthington and not Connor. By the end of the movie you are invested in Worthington's character and they off him in favor of Bale.

Even though the movie is about JC, I could care less about him after two hours. Unlike Arnold I doubt they will bring him(Worthington) back in the next films. He is more like Darth Maul, which is very unfortunate. And right now I couldn't care less to see another movie with Bale and McG's script.

What is missing from the story is what Kyle tells Sarah about in the first film. That all the surviving humans (after the war we now know as Judgement Day) were rounded up (some to kept alive to work) in camps for termination and Conner rebelled, rose up and stormed the camps froming the resistance. Given that the war happened in 2004 (acording the time line in T3), all this good stuff has been skipped in favour of focusing on restoring the original Terminator from the first film.

Yes im missing that to. Also it seem strange to build machines that harvest surviving humans one by one and take them to death camps, to have them killed. Wouldnt it be easier just to kill them on sight?

How Reese tells the story in T1, seems possible. But not how they show it in this movie.

Also it seem strange to build machines that harvest surviving humans one by one and take them to death camps, to have them killed. Wouldnt it be easier just to kill them on sight?

The humans were being rounded up for use in medical experiments to perfect the organic outer shell of the T-800 model. They weren't just being killed.

Yes im missing that to. Also it seem strange to build machines that harvest surviving humans one by one and take them to death camps, to have them killed. Wouldnt it be easier just to kill them on sight?


That all depends if you buy the idea that they are harvesting something about the humans before inevitably killing them off.

It is also suggested that they were searching for specific persons (to ensure their destruction, of course). So maybe it was just easier to round-up survivors en-masse and then profile them later? Make sure you kill the specific persons as you find them, as opposed to just killing everybody on-sight w/o any ID'ing process? I dunno- I'm not Skynet! :p

Just finally saw this and MAN what a ride. For all the shortcomings in story and direction, they certainly made up for it in wonderful action sequences and cinematography. Excellent Blu-Ray production values as well.

However, I couldnt help but be disappointed. I mean.. we've spent 3 movies leading up to Judgement Day and all of the sudden we're 20 years passed it? Disappointing. Even with that in mind, this movie seemed to introduce more questions than it answered. That would be fine if it wasn't the 4th movie in franchise that should be nearing a climax. It was like we got a few "oh cool thats what that meant" or "oh so thats what that looked like or was supposed to be" moments, and the rest of the time were scratching our heads waiting for the relevance to the first 3 films. Sam Worthington did an incredible job in this film, but his character is one of the main points I'm mentioning here. Nowhere in the last 3 films was there even an allusion to a cyborg-human with a beating heart.. and yet he's arguably the central character in a film thats supposed to be about John Connor! I thought the idea of an infiltrator unit was really interesting and was presented well enough, but it also seemed out of place for the tone of the franchise so far and a replacement for the story we actually should've been given. Obnoxious.

All things considered it was definitely a better film than T3 (though I enjoy T3 more than most here I'm sure), and a great thrill to watch, but it left me somewhat confused and disappointed overall.

This is what made the film worthwhile for us:

The giant robot's attack at the gas station and the ensuing motorcycle/robot chase

Lee

This is was made the film worthwhile for us:

The giant robot's attack at the gas station and the ensuing motorcycle/robot chase

LeeIt doesn't hurt.

This is was made the film worthwhile for us:

The giant robot's attack at the gas station and the ensuing motorcycle/robot chase

Lee

I liked the gas station scene. Very well done and upped the impact of the movie for me.

The Gas Station scene and the following sequences with the motos are a sonic assault.

The Gas Station scene and the following sequences with the motos are a sonic assault.


+1 Since I'm a Saab owner I was happy to see that a Saab had survived Judgement day only to be killed by the harvesting robot! haha

I took it that JC was eventually to become the head of the resistance, but you don't just get to be "that guy" right off the bat. So this was more of a look at JC's rise to that position. Now that the senior leadership has been defeated, there is only him left to keep the movement going. JC's impact is that he managed to survive by his unconventional sensibilities, which the machines just cannot figure out. The senior leadership was wiped-out because the machines knew exactly how they operate and how to exploit that.

I agree with what you are saying. As a matter of fact I think you have a better handle on it than the movie did. :) We were shown JC was a leader of his group. We were shown that he did the radio call out to connect with other resistance groups. We were shown that he was important to the senior leadership. But as an audience we never grew to be invested or buy in that he was that important. Seemed like Bale was constantly telling folks how important he was but, emotionally, I just did not feel it. At the end I did not really care that much if he made it or not. I found myself more let down that he was going to make it, at the expense of Worthington, who I had grown attached to.

Well, I didn't get that impression as I watched it. It's all written out in pretext that JC is the Man on this scene (per every movie that preceded this one and SCC). So that is how I perceived it. It was not necessary for the character to prove this out to me in some way (I think I get that after 3 movies before TS).

Whether or not CB played a convincing JC, I didn't have a problem with what we got. JC may be the resistance leader, but he still just "A" man trying to deal with this armageddon like everybody else (an impression I believe comes from later Terminator movies and SCC). I wasn't expecting some prolific Patton hero character.

Thats the problem with T4. The main character is Worthington and not Connor. By the end of the movie you are invested in Worthington's character and they off him in favor of Bale.

Even though the movie is about JC, I could care less about him after two hours. Unlike Arnold I doubt they will bring him(Worthington) back in the next films. He is more like Darth Maul, which is very unfortunate. And right now I could care less to see another movie with Bale and McG's script.

Sorry to go off topic for a moment, but I am wondering if the Americans have a differen't take on "Could care less." over "Couldn't care less.".....

http://www.avforums.com/forums/general-chat/1180030-could-you-care-less-poll.html


Back on topic.. I think that Worthington's role was great, and I'm ready to watch the movie again already after 2 weeks.

I found myself more let down that he was going to make it, at the expense of Worthington, who I had grown attached to.Yep.

Yes im missing that to. Also it seem strange to build machines that harvest surviving humans one by one and take them to death camps, to have them killed. Wouldnt it be easier just to kill them on sight?

How Reese tells the story in T1, seems possible. But not how they show it in this movie.

As someone else said, they weren't killing them, but using them as guinea pigs for the T800 development.

As for the second part, if you recall, Connor says that "This isn't the world my mother told me about" or something to that effect. The effects of T2 and T1 and time travel altered the course that Connor's world would take. So it makes sense that some things are now how Reese explained to Sarah in the first film.

Personally I really liked the film. I also love the previous movies (although I still think T3 wasn't all that great). I didn't mind very much that Marcus "died" at the end, since he was already such a great character. The fact the movie focused on him rather than Connor was a nice refreshing break from the formula thus far. I thought it was really well done.

Sorry to go off topic for a moment, but I am wondering if the Americans have a differen't take on "Could care less." over "Couldn't care less.".....

http://www.avforums.com/forums/general-chat/1180030-could-you-care-less-poll.html



http://www.incompetech.com/Images/caring.png

^ That's awesome. I need to post that all over the walls at work.

The Gas Station scene and the following sequences with the motos are a sonic assault.

Those are the 2 best action scenes in the movie IMO.
The only 2 worth remembering...;)

As someone else said, they weren't killing them, but using them as guinea pigs for the T800 development.

As for the second part, if you recall, Connor says that "This isn't the world my mother told me about" or something to that effect. The effects of T2 and T1 and time travel altered the course that Connor's world would take. So it makes sense that some things are now how Reese explained to Sarah in the first film.

Yes I know that its not the same world, and thats half the disappointment. The Reese backstory is totaly changed in this one. The deathcamp story he told had been a much better movie. Here he is just having a sightseeing, not even a weekend.

Maybe some people think this is a prequel, when in fact it is a sequel. If you think it is a prequel then you will think it is wrong. If you think it is a sequel then it works.

I couldn't care less to see another movie with Bale and McG's script.

Christian Bale nor McG wrote the script. John D. Brancato and Michael Ferris did.

J
However, I couldnt help but be disappointed. I mean.. we've spent 3 movies leading up to Judgement Day and all of the sudden we're 20 years passed it?

All things considered it was definitely a better film than T3 (though I enjoy T3 more than most here I'm sure), and a great thrill to watch, but it left me somewhat confused and disappointed overall.

Uh...T3 is pretty much all Judgment Day from the early AM hours.

I know they didn't write the script. I am talking about McG's ideas for the next movie. If he gets that chance. His next idea is far worst then any of the previous movies so far and will certainly ruin the whole franchise to this point. Hopefully someone stops him.

Unfortunately, this movie helped put the final nail in the Terminator coffin. With two fairly lousy sequels after two classic, though somewhat imperfect films I think many a studio and audience member will be very skittish about a fifth installment.

If McG or this crappy band of screenwriters and script doctors (there were at least 6 trying to polish this turd) has anything to do with a T5, I will absolutely think the new owners of this franchise are complete morons.

To have Halcyon (now defunct) actually choose McG and those writers for T4 after the critical drubbing T3 got over more highly qualified candidates says a lot already as to why Halcyon, as a production company, failed after only their first film. That bone-headed decision was the kiss of death for this particular movie.

Christian Bale can act, and has shown he is quite capable of doing so... but he's very temperamental (as his famous rant shows) and needs a superior director who can handle difficult actors and a script that can bring out his talents. Otherwise, he will simply get quite lazy and phone in his performance (first probing his director and then knowing he can get away with it), as shown here. Another couple very capable actors with this same stubborn willfulness and freakishly big ego to go with it who come to mind are Anthony Hopkins and Russell Crowe.

It should have been James Cameron, if he had the interest to write or farm out a very, very good script.

To have Halcyon (now defunct) actually choose McG and those writers for T4 after the critical drubbing T3 got over more highly qualified candidates says a lot already as to why Halcyon, as a production company, failed after only their first film. That bone-headed decision was the kiss of death for this particular movie.

That's not quite how it worked out. Jonathan Mostow was attached to direct Terminator 4 in 2005, and Brancato and Ferris were writing the script for C2 Pictures. When C2 sold the rights to Halycon, that script went with it. So Halycon hired McG and they worked on heavily rewriting it, bringing in Paul Haggis, Jonathan Nolan, etc. Brancato and Ferris didn't actually work on it after 2005.

And Terminator 3 didn't receive a critical drubbing.

Christian Bale nor McG wrote the script. John D. Brancato and Michael Ferris did.



Uh...T3 is pretty much all Judgment Day from the early AM hours.

Bale did work on the script and changed the ending among other things

Bale did work on the script and changed the ending among other things
Bale did indeed force a significant rewrite of the Terminator Salvation script to beef up his role. (http://current.com/entertainment/movies/90036843_christian-bale-forced-a-rewrite-on-terminator-script.htm) Bale's meddling did significant damage to the finished product I thought. Although the movie didn't stink, it had far too much of John Connor and too little of the much more interesting Marcus Wright. Connor seemed like a routine action hero and was largely boring, while Marcus was a genuinely tragic figure. Bale should have stuck with his day job.

Bale didn't meddle. They offered him Marcus but he thought Connor held more potential, so they brought in Jonah Nolan to beef up Connor's part (hence the whole Skynet signal suplot). It's not as thought Bale was making demands.

Bale didn't meddle. They offered him Marcus but he thought Connor held more potential, so they brought in Jonah Nolan to beef up Connor's part (hence the whole Skynet signal suplot). It's not as thought Bale was making demands.
Did you look at the link I provided in my earlier post? Here's the money quote: "British actor Christian Bale forced a rewrite of upcoming action movie "Terminator Salvation," because his star had grown too big for the small role of John Connor he chose, the filmmakers said on Friday." [Emphasis added.] That sounds like meddling to me.

The conventional wisdom is that Bale is a pretty bad guy with an anger management problem. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/4508022/Christian-Bale-rant-Full-transcript.html) Couple that with what a mess his overstuffed role made out of Terminator Salvation, and it has seemed to me to have been a case of an egomaniacal actor having had too much say in the writing of the film.

I know a few people who worked that shoot. Bale didn't force anything. Halycon didn't think it was worth hiring him if he only appeared in three scenes.

I know a few people who worked that shoot. Bale didn't force anything. Halycon didn't think it was worth hiring him if he only appeared in three scenes.
If that is what people you trust told you, I understand why you believed them. Nevertheless, published reports about the rewrite and Bale's prima donna ways have convinced me, at least, that Bale did indeed "force" a rewrite. I suspect the whole truth of the matter will never be known.

If that is what people you trust told you, I understand why you believed them. Nevertheless, published reports about the rewrite and Bale's prima donna ways have convinced me, at least, that Bale did indeed "force" a rewrite. I suspect the whole truth of the matter will never be known.

You must be new to the filmmaking game if you think this is the first time a star helped shape a script. For the most part, actors have more to lose in their careers from a bad movie than does a director or writer. Stars are the ones with their face out there, the director and writers are just names on a screen people sometimes read. To call Bale a "prima donna" for doing what is basically an accepted practice in Hollywood is a bit disingenuous.

You must be new to the filmmaking game if you think this is the first time a star helped shape a script. For the most part, actors have more to lose in their careers from a bad movie than does a director or writer. Stars are the ones with their face out there, the director and writers are just names on a screen people sometimes read. To call Bale a "prima donna" for doing what is basically an accepted practice in Hollywood is a bit disingenuous.

Beyond that if he DID ask for script changes, he most likely had a contract specifying script approval. He's a big enough star to command that privilege. Also, the fact that his presence in the film caused a script rewrite doesn't mean that he personally demanded it. Quotes out of context could be mis-read making it seem that he demanded it when in fact it was the studio's call based on his higher salary and box-office draw.

The conventional wisdom is that Bale is a pretty bad guy with an anger management problem. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/4508022/Christian-Bale-rant-Full-transcript.html) Couple that with what a mess his overstuffed role made out of Terminator Salvation, and it has seemed to me to have been a case of an egomaniacal actor having had too much say in the writing of the film.

CB isn't the real problem IMO.
It's the "lets make a template A1 action flick", and "lets put some stupid CGI sequences that might work in a videogame but looks really really stupid in a movie". The T's are like the nazis in old 2:nd world war movies.

I can come up with stuff that points to why T3 and T4 are vastly inferior to T1 and T2 but I'm not going to do that.
I'll just ask one question.
Do you get any feeling of menace in T3 and T4 ?

Didn't think so :), if you do....where, which sequences did I miss ?


That kind of wraps it up for me, T3 and T4 is just a matter of stringing action sequences (more or less stupid) together.
T1 and T2 actually had a story, the T's are efficient killing machines that is very tough to escape and to kill.

The only thing that was pretty cool in T4, is the giant robot at the gas station sequence. On the other hand, one clip doesn't make a movie.
Very dissappointed.

You must be new to the filmmaking game if you think this is the first time a star helped shape a script. For the most part, actors have more to lose in their careers from a bad movie than does a director or writer. Stars are the ones with their face out there, the director and writers are just names on a screen people sometimes read. To call Bale a "prima donna" for doing what is basically an accepted practice in Hollywood is a bit disingenuous.
You and I are talking about different things. To me at least, the issue isn't whether Bale or some other powerful egomaniac, ruined a potentially good film with his hubris. The real question is whether it's right for a big time star to do such a thing.

You and I are talking about different things. To me at least, the issue isn't whether Bale or some other powerful egomaniac, ruined a potentially good film with his hubris. The real question is whether it's right for a big time star to do such a thing.

First, it's unfair to characterize Bale as an egomaniac. For the most part, he shuns the spotlight. He prefers smaller, meatier roles to the leads. That's why he chose the Purvis role for "Public Enemies" and his supporting role in the upcoming "The Fighter". He pretty much is a pragmatist when it comes to doing the leads in "Batman" and "Terminator" under the idea that his kid's gotta eat, so he does those for money.

Also, to use his onset altercation with the DP as a case for him being an egotist or prima donna is also unfair. Go back and listen to it. He's yelling at the guy because he got in the way of Bale doing his job. He's not refusing to come to set because the wrong flavor of chewing gum is on the craft services table.

But as to your assertion that stars should have no say regarding the content of the script, we do disagree. Films are collaborative. They are a million different details that require a bunch of creative brains making them. No one person can possibly make them all. The best films involve creative input from everyone on the set.

This film was not ruined by one person. Primarily, it was ruined the same way most movies are - a set release date and not enough time to work out the kinks before then. This movie was ruined by the writer's strike. It was ruined by producers trying to appease the masses. It was ruined by a director with a muddy vision. It was ruined by a script that wanted to change the dynamic of what made this series work in the first place, i.e. an unstoppable killing machine hunting one person. And yes, it was ruined by Bale for agreeing to do it when he didn't have the heart for it. He turned it down at least twice before agreeing to do it, probably just to get one more paycheck before the looming actor's strike that didn't materialize. Lots of things went wrong here, not just one.

I think the story would have worked better in a Band of brothers form factor. It gives you a much better creative freedom then the movie format gives you.

First, it's unfair to characterize Bale as an egomaniac. For the most part, he shuns the spotlight. He prefers smaller, meatier roles to the leads. That's why he chose the Purvis role for "Public Enemies" and his supporting role in the upcoming "The Fighter". He pretty much is a pragmatist when it comes to doing the leads in "Batman" and "Terminator" under the idea that his kid's gotta eat, so he does those for money.

Also, to use his onset altercation with the DP as a case for him being an egotist or prima donna is also unfair. Go back and listen to it. He's yelling at the guy because he got in the way of Bale doing his job. He's not refusing to come to set because the wrong flavor of chewing gum is on the craft services table.

But as to your assertion that stars should have no say regarding the content of the script, we do disagree. Films are collaborative. They are a million different details that require a bunch of creative brains making them. No one person can possibly make them all. The best films involve creative input from everyone on the set.

This film was not ruined by one person. Primarily, it was ruined the same way most movies are - a set release date and not enough time to work out the kinks before then. This movie was ruined by the writer's strike. It was ruined by producers trying to appease the masses. It was ruined by a director with a muddy vision. It was ruined by a script that wanted to change the dynamic of what made this series work in the first place, i.e. an unstoppable killing machine hunting one person. And yes, it was ruined by Bale for agreeing to do it when he didn't have the heart for it. He turned it down at least twice before agreeing to do it, probably just to get one more paycheck before the looming actor's strike that didn't materialize. Lots of things went wrong here, not just one.
I appreciate your point of view but it differs markedly from mine. Anyway, recall, I said in an earlier post that I suspected the whole truth of the nature and extent of Bale's meddling would ever be known.

I agree that no one person can ruin a film. The semi-talented McG was probably at least as much to blame as Bale was for Terminator Salvation's poor, to me at least, shooting script.

I have lost a lot of regard for Bale's talent as a result of his recent films. Since his bravura performance in The Prestige, and his almost equally impressive appearance in 3:10 to Yuma, I have been less than impressed with his work in The Dark Knight and Public Enemies. I thought his Terminator Salvation performance, though, was his worst to date. That said, I have not yet given up on Bale, he showed me too much earlier in his career for that to happen. Actors, even the successful ones, are slaves to the parts they are given. Good parts are springboards for good performances, and great parts often produce great performances. Unfortunately, there are some parts so poorly written, think John Connor in Terminator Salvation, that they are beyond redemption by even the finest actor.

i also wouldn't trust much things 'filmmakers' say in regards of laying blame of why their movie ended up being bad. Everyone wants to point fingers and say its the other guys' fault.

CB isn't the real problem IMO.
It's the "lets make a template A1 action flick", and "lets put some stupid CGI sequences that might work in a videogame but looks really really stupid in a movie". The T's are like the nazis in old 2:nd world war movies.

I can come up with stuff that points to why T3 and T4 are vastly inferior to T1 and T2 but I'm not going to do that.
I'll just ask one question.
Do you get any feeling of menace in T3 and T4 ?

Didn't think so :), if you do....where, which sequences did I miss ?


That kind of wraps it up for me, T3 and T4 is just a matter of stringing action sequences (more or less stupid) together.
T1 and T2 actually had a story, the T's are efficient killing machines that is very tough to escape and to kill.

The only thing that was pretty cool in T4, is the giant robot at the gas station sequence. On the other hand, one clip doesn't make a movie.
Very disappointed.

I'm with you, there. Though, I didn't even like the giant Transformer-ish robot sneaking up on the gas station with nary a peep sequence (just as ludicrous as the cell phone in the sneaky Sizemasaurus in Jurassic Park 3). Besides, machines, especially an advanced AI like Skynet, wouldn't build such clunky, inefficient models as we saw in T4.

I'll go with [gasp!] Michael Bay on this gripe: they put those particular T's in the movie for the very fact that Transformers 2 was coming out the same year.

He pretty much is a pragmatist when it comes to doing the leads in "Batman" and "Terminator" under the idea that his kid's gotta eat, so he does those for money.

Not the case, at least re: Batman. He lobbied very hard for the role (and his wasn't the highest salary) and the feral characterization was all his.

Sorry if this has been asked already but was there a US version of this blu ray that didn't include a digital copy? Mine didn't have one inside, thanks.

Sorry if this has been asked already but was there a US version of this blu ray that didn't include a digital copy? Mine didn't have one inside, thanks.

Digital Copies are a limited time offer type of extra with Warner. At some point they run out and they are no longer available. If you check on Amazon now for this title, you will see that is now is listed as:

Terminator Salvation (Director's Cut)

Previously it said something like:
Terminator Salvation (Director's Cut) [Blu-ray [B]+ Digital Copy]

Look up the of the Lord of the Rings Trilogy Blu-ray on Amazon now. You will see both a [Blu-ray + Digital Copy] and a plain [Blu-ray] version. Soon, the Digital Copy version will go away.

Digital Copies are a limited time offer type of extra with Warner. At some point they run out and they are no longer available. If you check on Amazon now for this title, you will see that is now is listed as:

Terminator Salvation (Director's Cut)

Previously it said something like:
Terminator Salvation (Director's Cut) [Blu-ray [B]+ Digital Copy]

Look up the of the Lord of the Rings Trilogy Blu-ray on Amazon now. You will see both a [Blu-ray + Digital Copy] and a plain [Blu-ray] version. Soon, the Digital Copy version will go away.

Well, my problem is I bought it the second week it came out, not like a week ago. So that's why I have the question. I don't understand if costco didn't offer it somehow or did I get screwed.

Has anyone had problems with this disc causing lots of vibration in their player and/or the appearance of video artifacts like fleeting bright blue lines across the screen? Thinking I probably just got a bad one, but who knows....

This movie and BD ROCKS!! Everyone on here knows this. McG did a super job with T4 and I wish he could return for another go. I picked up this disc the other day and i've already watched it twice. Just a super job. I put this BD up there with Star Trek and Avatar.

Does anyone like this film as much as me? I've been a fan of the Terminator series since the original decades ago. I know Cameron is a god but, I think the last two films were equally as entertaining as Camerons especially T4.

Once again, This BD ROCKS!!!

I thoroughly enjoy T4.

I do, Xerowarp! It was good enough to give me hope that there is indeed life left in the franchise, after what T3 turned out to be.

I thoroughly enjoy T4.

I do, Xerowarp! It was good enough to give me hope that there is indeed life left in the franchise, after what T3 turned out to be.

So glad i'm not alone. All i've been reading(not just here) seemed to be real negative towards what I thought was an adrenaline shot into a dying franchise. I've gotta say, when I first heard McG was directing I let a big WTF!!!

So to recap...T4 BD ROCKS!!!

I like it more every time I watch it. I LOVE the audio on the disc though! :eek:

t3 and t4 both miss the human element that t1 and t2 had...it's hard to care about anybody in t3 or t4.

t4 got it right with the special effects, that's for sure..the chase scene out of LA (?) is one of the best I have ever seen.

t3 and t4 both miss the human element that t1 and t2 had...it's hard to care about anybody in t3 or t4.

t4 got it right with the special effects, that's for sure..the chase scene out of LA (?) is one of the best I have ever seen.

Agree with you on T3, piss poor casting. Besides Ahnuld, T3 had some of the worst casting in a major franchise film ever.

I thought T4 had a lot of human element/connection. I cared more about the characters in T4 than I did T3. I think the kid that played Kyle Reece could lead his own Terminator spin off. The Kyle Reece Chronicles?:)

Or maybe I just like T4 because the AQ is so damned good.

I think the novel detail of T4 was that it focused on the human element of "believing" you are human despite circumstances to the contrary. I connected to that element just fine. Maybe the bigger message in this movie was that it isn't so much the physicality of being a flesh and blood human that makes it a valuable trait, rather it is the notion of being righteous in your heart as a driving force to your actions that makes you human?

Haha, Xerowarp!! Or should I say McG? ;)

I really liked T4. I thought all the Terminator models looked fantastic. The BD audio shook my house down. I'm really hoping they continue on doing the planned trilogy.

Haha, Xerowarp!! Or should I say McG? ;)

I was waiting on that.:) No i'm not. I would have done a better job with Charlies Angels.:p

I really liked T4. I thought all the Terminator models looked fantastic. The BD audio shook my house down. I'm really hoping they continue on doing the planned trilogy.

Yes more please. I hope they continue in the same vein T4 started. Could you imagine Chris Nolan directing one or JJ Abrams?

Yeah, this film surprised me because I thought it was going to just be another franchise with a crappy sequel. I hope they continue with the war on machines...

yes more please. I hope they continue in the same vein t4 started. Could you imagine chris nolan directing one or jj abrams?

+1

Yeah, this film surprised me because I thought it was going to just be another franchise with a crappy sequel. I hope they continue with the war on machines...

Where the hell are the laser/pulse rifles?

I will evoke alternate/altered timeline on that one. :D Maybe those things emerge at a later point past J-day (now that even the date of J-day is moving around in response to specific alterations in a given timeline).

Just watched this on a Netflix rental last night - wow! The special effects and soundtrack were very impressive. I also thought it was a pretty good movie in spite of some of the comments I read here. In fact I liked that it wasn't another Terminator versus human one on one, but broadened the perspective somewhat into humans versus Skynet. I will probably purchase this, although I will admit to the sound being an influence - this has to be the the most impressive soundtrack I have yet heard on BD. The whole chase sequence starting at the 7-11 was incredible. The final sequence with the T-800 in the Skynet base was almost anti-climatic, partly due to being so similar to earlier T movies.

I liked this movie also. Previously saw it at a Muvico theater in Rosemont, IL. The sound was off the chart then and I look forward to checking it out on BD (when I get the chance).

i enjoyed T4 much more than the abomination of a Terminator sequel that T3 was (spoiler alert.... a virus....). I occasionally watch it in the style of mystery science theater by picking out all the blatantly obvious or inconceivable physics the filmakers used to move the plot line.... "a crane that can operate everything mechanically from the driver's cabin = wrong"...

I liked this movie also. Previously saw it at a Muvico theater in Rosemont, IL. The sound was off the chart then and I look forward to checking it out on BD (when I get the chance).

I've been to the Rosemont Muvico as well, but I have a feeling that if you have a great setup at home the BD will eclipse the theater experience! My house was really shaking...had to turn down the volume lots of times for fear of physical damage to my living room.
The gas station attack and opening battle are amazing! :D