First, a little background info:

Last November, I decided to upgrade the HDTV in my living room. I had an old Sony rear-projection HDTV from 2002. It was a great TV for about 4 years, and then started to look really outdated. I ended up buying a 50" 720p Samsung plasma. Was able to get it for like $850 plus tax, which was a very good deal at that time. Anyways, when I get home with the TV and start unboxing it, I notice on the side of the TV box that it mentions "3D Ready" a number of times. I had heard a little bit here and there about various DLP TV's having a special 3D mode, but didn't know much about it. After going through the owners manual, I started reading more about the 3D feature. I started to get intrigued by it, and did more research. I heard that some companies were getting ready to have "true" stereoscopic 3D games for the 360 and PS3. I also heard rumors of a special Blu Ray player that could be compatible with Stereoscopic 3D.

I decided to purchase the Samsung shutterglasses and emitter that are recommended for this plasma. My idea at the time was that I was going to experiment with Stereoscopic 3D using my computer, until these games came out for the 360 or PS3, or until the special Blu Ray player came out. The glasses weren't exactly cheap. I bought 2 pairs of the glasses, because I wanted an extra person to be able to play with me, or be able to watch the movies. I also had to buy an emitter. It cost like $130.00 to get all that shipped to me. Anyways, I tried screwing around with my PC, and quickly realized that my PC was too old, and I would need to upgrade the PC. I put the glasses in storage and kinda forgot about them.



Flash Forward to now:

A couple of weeks back, I heard that Invincible Tiger: The Legend of Han Tao was about to release on Xbox Live Arcade. I remembered that this was supposed to be one of the first Stereoscopic 3D games on console. So I started bouncing around the net trying to find info on it. I discovered that for the 3D to work, you had to have an Xbox 360 with an HDMI port. I own two 360 machines, but neither has HDMI output. DAMN. So, I tried to get ahold of some friends of mine, to see if they had a 360 with HDMI that I could borrow for a couple of days. Finally, one of my buddies had a 360 with HDMI, and he said I could borrow it. I picked up his 360, took it home and hooked it up to my plasma. I had to use the HDMI 2 input on my plasma for it to work. I downloaded the free trial of Invincible Tiger. I went into the options and seleced the "Digital 3D" mode. I went into the advanced options and changed a few settings. The website for the game has recomendations for just about every 3D ready TV out there. They had some recomendations for mine, so I adjusted all the options for my particular TV. I hooked up my emitter to the back of the TV, and then put on my Samsung shutterglasses. I fired up the game, and wtf......?? The 3D wasn't working right... I was pissed off as hell. Then after about 20 minutes of trying to figure out what the problem was, I realized that the TV and game have to be synched up in terms of which eye to sync the signal to first. Either Left eye or Right eye. I had it set to Left eye in the game, but my TV was set to Mode 1, which turns out to be right eye. So I set my TV to Mode 2, and was good to go.


When you first start playing the game in 3D, you kinda wonder if it's actually working right. You wonder if you have it setup correctly, and if it's actually working in 3D. I think the reason for this, is that it take a few seconds for your eyes to get adjusted to the shutterglasses. But about 30 seconds later, I could definitely tell that the game was working in real, digital 3D. It was pretty freaking impressive. The first level of the game has you fighting these various guys, kinda Final Fight style, out in this courtyard. In the courtyard there are these leaves that are blowing around. When playing it in 3D, the leaves start blowing around, and it appears as though they are blowing out of your TV, it's pretty freaking sweet when you first see it. My immediate reaction was to yell for my sons or my wife to check it out. I had an extra pair of the Samsung shutterglasses and told them to put it on and check it out. They did, but didn't seem to be as blown away as I was. One of my sons friends was over, and he tried it, and he seemed to notice the 3D way more than they did. The 3D is a bit more subtle than you might imagine.


It's very hard to describe the 3D effect with words. The best way for me to explain it, is like this... Ok, you know how people have these model train sets, and they have a table that the train is on, with little houses, and little trees and buildings and stuff? Ok, well imagine that your TV is a three dimensional box, and inside that box is these little houses and little trees and buildings and stuff, and little characters running around. Well, basically, the 3D mode is like looking inside that box, and seeing the stuff being played out in 3D. Basically, you get a sense of depth looking into the box, and looking at the scene that is going on inside the box.

As for stuff coming out of the screen at me, I didn't see many effects like that in the free trial. There are some things in the foreground that do appear to "pop" out of the screen. The status bar for your health, and the hud, seems to float out in space a bit. At the bottom of the screen, there are bushes and shrubs that kinda seem to pop out a bit, like they are coming out of the screen. It's quite impressive, but I didn't see anything that shot out of the screen at me, like you kinda see when watching some of the various 3D movies at Imax. Part of this, of course, could be the fact that I was just playing the free trial. If I owned my own 360 with HDMI, I would have probably dropped $15 on the game, even though the game itself (not considering the 3D aspect), is pretty lame. The free trial doesn't let you see very much of the game, so unfortunately, I can't give a better review on the 3D effects. Basically, the most impressive thing to me were these leaves from the trees that seemed to be blowing right out of the TV at me. That was the only 3D effect that really seemed to come out of the TV. The rest of it was just like looking in on a 3D world from behind a window, but it having true depth.

The game itself, was a mediocre final fight type game. To me, the game seemed too hectic, and I didn't really get into it. I'm not opposed to playing a good side scrolling brawler, ala Streets of Rage or something like that, but this game was just mediocre in my brief experience with it. Without the 3D factor, I wouldn't have had any interest whatsoever.


So, what's the conclusion to all of this??? Well, "true" Stereoscopic 3D does indeed work on the Xbox 360. The potential is there. You need a 3D ready display, and you also need a pair of shutterglasses and an emitter. But, it's definitely within reach. Based on what I've seen from this game, I wouldn't run out and buy a 3D ready TV and glasses and all that just yet. If you already happen to own a 3D ready display, then you might want to borrow somebodies shutterglasses and emitter, just to get a taste of what it's like. Other than that, wait for the Avatar game to come out. I think it's the second stereo 3D game coming out, and it's more of a full fledged retail game. Maybe that game will be a better showcase for "true" digital 3D than The Legend of Han Tao. I personally can't wait for a game like Need For Speed Shift to be in steroscopic 3D. I think that could be a real deal killer app for Stereo 3D. Unfortunately, besides the Legend of Han Tao and Avatar, I don't know of any other confirmed stereo 3D games coming down the pipe.

Good post, I was tigerdirect a month or ago and noticed a 24 (LCD) monitor and nvidia 3d glasses, I forget to look to into, as I do alot of my solo compettive gaming on a 24 LCD.
So by the sounds of your post it might good to wait year or so untill this has really taken off?

Sounds like something tailor-made for Natal.

It sounds like 3D could really change the way we play games, or at least how we'd experience them. I did a quick search and found a little 3D game info.

3D Avatar for Xbox 360 in the works. (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/3d-xbox-360-games-up-and-running-at-ubisoft)

A collective thanks for going through all of that to test out that game and then write the review.

-JR

So by the sounds of your post it might good to wait year or so untill this has really taken off?


Yeah, basically, we need to wait for a Stereo 3D killer App. Invincible Tiger isn't close to being a killer app. It's more of a curiosity. I'm going to be very interested in seeing how Avatar works out in November or December, whenever that game comes out. I'm just hoping that Avatar doesn't absolutely require a 1080p 3D display.

As for the forseeable future beyond Avatar, basically it's a wait and see situation. Sony recently made a major announcement about how they are going to get into 3D in a big way, and they are going to have alot of Stereo 3D games coming to the PS3, so hopefully Microsoft gets behind the whole S3D movement as well.


Update: Avatar has a release date of November 24th. Well see if it really comes out then.

I don't want to buy another HDTV. I really wish they could find a way to do it on all TVs.

Hi, you said that not much popped out of the screen.
I read in an interview somewhere that this was intentional. After doing plenty of tests and research, it turns out that it is generally things popping out of the screen that causes eye strain on users as it really stretches the focus of your eyes.

Also, it would get a bit messy when a popped out object moves off the side of the screen, because it will look like it is nearer to you than the screen, yet it will start to get cropped to the edge of the screen (as obviously the image can not render off the edge of the screen), and so the illusion of depth is broken.

Hope that makes sense. If I can find the interview I'll come back and post the link.

Hi, you said that not much popped out of the screen.
I read in an interview somewhere that this was intentional. After doing plenty of tests and research, it turns out that it is generally things popping out of the screen that causes eye strain on users as it really stretches the focus of your eyes.

Also, it would get a bit messy when a popped out object moves off the side of the screen, because it will look like it is nearer to you than the screen, yet it will start to get cropped to the edge of the screen (as obviously the image can not render off the edge of the screen), and so the illusion of depth is broken.

Hope that makes sense. If I can find the interview I'll come back and post the link.

Well, when those leaves were blowing around, especially the white colored leaves, they really did come out of the screen in the traditional 3D way that you would associate with an Imax 3D movie, or a RealD 3D movie in theaters. It was a "wow" effect the first several times it happened. Personally, I would love to play a Halo type game, where somebody had a rocket launcher, and they are firing rockets at you, and if you quickly move to the right to dodge the incoming rocket, you see the rocket in 3D on your left side practically zipping right past you're head. That would be really awesome. Or in a game like Oblivion, when somebody is shooting arrows at you or something.


I don't want to buy another HDTV. I really wish they could find a way to do it on all TVs.


Well, even though my plasma is 3D ready, I'm still probably going to need to upgrade it to truly take advantage of 3D when it really does go mainstream. Already I can't play Invincible Tiger on PS3, because it requires 1080p. I read something about Avatar requiring 1080p as well, hopefully that is just the PS3 version, but if it's the 360 version as well, then I'm screwed. I'm not that upset about the whole situation though, because when I bought my plasma for $850, I would have had to spend an extra $450 for 1080p, and at my viewing distance, I would have been throwing that $450 away. There might be a point when I'll wish I ponied up that extra $450 for 1080p anyways, but I had no idea that it would be a factor for 3D.

The good news, is that the $450 I saved can basically go to my next upgrade, and I can always sell my currrent plasma for some decent coin. That plus the $450 I saved before should get me pretty close to a 1080p at the new lower prices. My actual plan though is to try to wait until this whole 3D thing shakes itself out a bit, cause it's hard to know what type of 3D display is truly going to be ideal. The longer we wait, the more likely we are going to get a more future proof HDTV in terms of any upcoming 3D standard. The last I heard, if buying a new TV, HDMI 1.4 is an absolute must. I don't think any of the HDTV's right now have HDMI 1.4, so basically nobody has a HDTV right now that is fully up to par with the future of 3D.

I also have a projector room, and right now I'm slumming it with an older 720p projector. I was planning on upgrading to a 1080p projector in the near future (1080p is mostly overrated unless you're talking about a really huge screen, so with projectors, 1080p actually makes a big difference), but was going to try to wait until new gaming consoles were released that really benefit from 1080p. Right now, with the 360 and PS3, 720p pretty much does everything you'd need it to. Very few games on PS3 or 360 are "true" 1080p. Most of them are PSN or XBLM games. Even the true 1080p ones haven't really impressed me. I've seen them on true 1080p displays, and they look good, but not what you'd expect from nearly double the pixels. Anyways, with all this 3D stuff on the horizon, I'm also going to be watching very closely on how it's going to shake out on the projector side of things. It's a good thing that I haven't already upgraded to a 1080p projector, cause I would have likely not looked into 3D projectors at all. Now, it's pretty much mandatory that if I'm getting a new projector, it must have 3D capabilities as well.

Theres a great big thread about this over on the PS forum for people interested in the one side of the future of gaming 3d
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1097647

Already I can't play Invincible Tiger on PS3, because it requires 1080p. I read something about Avatar requiring 1080p as well, hopefully that is just the PS3 version, but if it's the 360 version as well, then I'm screwed.

Because of the way the 360's scaler works, I doubt any games for it will ever require a 1080p display.

I believe thats one of the better advantages of the stereoscopic and shutter glasses. Whenever there are edges to an image the brain has a hard time interpreting the edge or how deep it is(I'm talking about the 16:9 edges of the screen cutting of images). But with the newer shutter glasses the 3D effect is from the edges of your screen and "Deeper" inside your TV, this eliminates some confusing for the brain and just looks like you looking through a 16:9 cut out. With big screen and projectors it will be incredibly immersive. I can't wait till they become main stream. The Miami - Florida State game last Monday was broadcast live in 3D to both campuses to show off how cool its going to be. I for one am incredibly excited by what live sporting events in the future will be like with this technology, and gaming for that matter.

Maybe it was USC - Ohio State this weekend I can't remember.

I would love to have a 3d projector and content.

Long term, I think for 3D to really hit the mass market, where everybody eventually has a 3D tv they need to figure out a way to do it without any glasses at all, and it has to look right. I've heard they can do it now without glasses, but the big problem is that you have sit in a certain spot. and if you're slightly off kilter it doesn't work. So basically, you can't have 3 people sitting on a sofa watching it. Only one person would be the "ideal" spot.

I wonder if 3D ultimately will ever become ubiquitous, or if it will be some other future technology like holograms. Has anybody seen that Sprint commercial (or some other cellphone service company) where it shows a football field, and little players running around on it, and it kinda looks like a hologram? That might end up actually being the way things go. Especially for sporting events. I'm not sure we'll watch movies like that though, cause I don't think an overhead type perspective for movies is something anybody wants. I kinda wish I could travel about 50 years into the future and see what the future of TV is like.

I was kinda thinking of a killer app and wouldnt it be cool if the Demo game for Natal worked in 3D. Its kind of a breakout game that you play with your body. It seems like it would be the perfect app to demonstrate 3D capabilities and Natal at the same time.

I was kinda thinking of a killer app and wouldnt it be cool if the Demo game for Natal worked in 3D. Its kind of a breakout game that you play with your body. It seems like it would be the perfect app to demonstrate 3D capabilities and Natal at the same time.

I thought that was already in the works for NATAL? :confused:

Great potential for RPGs i Think. 3D Oblivion or Fallout 3 would be sweet.

What about racing games? Or tight corridor shooters? They require alot of depth perception. I can't count the number of times I just slightly misjudge a piece of cover in COD and get blow to bits.

At PAX they were handing out red/cyan Invincible Tiger branded anaglyph glasses. I'm still digging through my swag and finally got around to trying them out with this game.

Overall? Quite impressive. In anaglyph mode, the leaves that flutter far out in front of the screen are evident. Also, your character will sometimes kick a bad guy out toward your living room. As far as depth goes, yes, the whole scene does have that "model train" feel, though the colors are screwed up. This is of course something that shutter-based 3D fixes.

I sure as hell wouldn't upgrade just to experience a better version of 3D gaming, but there is something to it. There is a certain level of connection that you feel when the 3D is produced by a character that you are controlling, something that you don't get when watching 3D film.

As an aside, back in maybe 2002, the last time that 3D was trying to make a comeback, I picked up a set of shutter glasses for my PC on the cheap. Running a CRT back then, I was able to do 120hz 800x600 with the shutter glasses in 3D shooters. Aside from the fact that aiming is damn near impossible in shooters with 3D applied, it was still a nifty little feature then too. Nothing that was really worth holding on to apparently though, as 3D was then abandoned for another 7 years, and my glasses ended up in the garbage.

In other words: 120hz shutter glasses and 3D-in-the-theater are just the latest 3D fads that will be forgotten about in a year or two. It's nifty, but there are very good reasons that 3D hasn't taken off the other 8 times that the film, game and comic industries have tried to introduce it.

anthony so you only tried out games? how are these glasses for movies?

I would love to try this. I am one of those people that has never been able to see anything 3d. It's like my brain doesn't know what do to with these darn 3d glasses. It's just nothing but flashing images to me. Still, sounds neat. Add in head tracking technology and totally get messed up.

anthony so you only tried out games? how are these glasses for movies?


Well, here is the thing.... Right now, you can't see any Blu Ray movies in 3D, and I'm pretty much addicted to watching HD movies. It would be very difficult for me to watch a regular DVD type movie, just to see some 3D effects. Having said that, I wouldn't mind checking it out at home, just to see how it looks. The problem is, the amount of "true" Stereoscopic content that is available right now is downright embarrassing. There really isn't much out there to see. The only way you can see it is by using your PC. You have to use this special movie player, and then also use a special version of the stereoscopic movie with that player. It's not exactly plug and play.

I've heard that the most impressive movie out there right now is a "true" Stereoscopic version of Journey to the Center of the Earth. The Brendan Fraiser remake. The problem is, the only way to get that movie is to pay like $30 to some website, and then they send it to you on disk, and then you have to use this special PC program on your computer to watch it, and it's just too many damn hoops to have to jump through. If I could somehow just rent the thing, and check it out, without having to jump through all these damn hoops, I would.

Back when I bought the glasses and emitter, there were rumors regarding a specially designed Blu Ray player that could do "real" Stereoscopic 3D. The problem with this theory, is that the studios would actually have to make a special Blu Ray disk that also offered the true stereoscopic version on it. It's the classic Chicken and the Egg scenario. Studios aren't going to go to the trouble to appeal to like 100 people worldwide that would actually care about this. Nobody is going to buy one of these special players unless there is some compelling content. So, it's one of those catch-22 situations. Eventually, I think there will be a real 3D standard that will happen, and there will be Blu Ray players that are certified to work with this standard, but we might still be about 5 years away.

I would love to try this. I am one of those people that has never been able to see anything 3d. It's like my brain doesn't know what do to with these darn 3d glasses. It's just nothing but flashing images to me. Still, sounds neat. Add in head tracking technology and totally get messed up.

Maybe you have an undiagnosed issue with your vision? A friend of mine has a problem where he has one lazy eye. I'm not sure what the exact medical term is, but he can't see any of the 3D stuff either. It just doesn't work for him at all. He can't go to the 3D movies in the movie theater, or try any 3D games. He doesn't really care too much about it, because rarely has it even become an issue for him. Most of the 3D movies in the movie theaters are kid movies, and he has no kids, and isn't interested in those movies. The first time it's really going to affect him is when Avatar comes out, and there is a bunch of hoopla around it. He can still see the non-3D version. Also, if consoles eventually go the 3D route, that could be a real problem for him. Of course, you have to assume that if future consoles do go 3D, they will have to take into consideration the percentage of the population that can't experience 3D.

I could be wrong but this Samsung "3D Starter Pack" seems to indicate that a HDTV Plasma and a linked PC can make the TV 3D.

Here is the link:

http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/tv-video/televisions/television-accessories/SSG1000X/XAA/index.idx?pagetype=acc_detail&subsubtype=3d-kit

Sony is putting major work into 3D. It will certainly be a major part of the PS4. Hell some have speculated (like on Digital Foundry) how they could pull it off on PS3, paired with a Bravia set.

I could be wrong but this Samsung "3D Starter Pack" seems to indicate that a HDTV Plasma and a linked PC can make the TV 3D.

Here is the link:

http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/tv-video/televisions/television-accessories/SSG1000X/XAA/index.idx?pagetype=acc_detail&subsubtype=3d-kit

Yeah, that's the exact kit that I have, although I basically skipped the worthless software that they give you, and got an extra pair of glasses for $20 less. I think that package is like $150, and I got two pairs of glasses and the emitter for $130 ordering just the parts directly from Samsung Parts.

I'm using the Samsung PN50A450 plasma with it. There are free drivers you can use on the PC for either ATI or Nvidia based graphics cards, that will allow you to play most games in Stereoscopic 3D. Certain games tend to be more impressive than others. Only reason I haven't played any of those, is because my PC is old and lame and can't run any of the modern games. I've been wanting to upgrade my PC, but I mostly play games on consoles, and I'm not really looking forward to going back into the constant upgrade cycles that you have to deal with if you go with PC gaming. I used to be a PC Gamer from late 1996, till the launch of the Dreamcast. Then I switched back to consoles and never looked back. Got too tired of always upgrading the CPU, GPU, memory and sound card.

Just an update....

Avatar, the next "true" Stereoscopic game is going to be released this Tuesday. (supposedly). I'm not sure if it's going to work with my Samsung PN50A450 or not. I've heard that it requires 1080p, and if that is the case, then I'm SOL. :( I'm hoping that only the PS3 version will absolutely require 1080p.

With the game Invincible Tiger, the PS3 version required a 1080p 3D display to work, but the 360 version didn't. I was able to play the 360 version of Invincible Tiger on my Samsung PN50A450 with no problems whatsoever. It would be a damn shame if I'm not able to check out Avatar first hand, because I've heard absolutely amazing things about the 3D in this game.

This one website called "Bitmob", ran by former EGM Editor in Chief Dan "Shoe" Hsu, has a podcast called "Mobcast". In Episode 28, one of their guys talks at length about seeing the game in 3D, and being totally blown away by it. Basically he was ranting and raving about it, saying that he must have the technology now, and that he couldn't wait for this to become more mainstream and for more games to feature 3D. They talk about 3D pretty early in the podcast, so if you want to check it out, you can download the podcast here:

http://bitmob.com/index.php/podcast/910-mobcast/4566-mobcast-episode-28


Also, there is this weekly video podcast called "Co-Op", that is basically the spiritual successor to "The 1up Show". They had an episode in which they discussed Avatar and 3D gaming in general. It's towards the very end of the video. Fast forward to 21:22 to get to the Avatar part. Obviously, they can't really show what it looks like in 3D, but they showed some sections of the game, and the game looked pretty decent, even without any 3D. This is definitely going to be a much better experience than Invincible Tiger, and this could be much closer to "killer" app status for a 3D game. At least, as close as we are going to get until a AAA developer decides to make a stereoscopic focused game.

You can check it out here:

http://bitmob.com/index.php/podcast/909-co-op/4594-co-op-gta4-the-ballad-of-gay-tony-avatar-torchlight


Well, at this point, all I can do is wait for Tuesday, and find out if my dreams are realized or shattered. Little did I know that my decision between a 1080p and a 720p TV was going to have serious ramifications for my ability to play games in 3D. Had I known what I now know, I would have ponied up the extra $475 and sprung for the 1080p. I just had no idea at that time.

I have a question regarding your Invincible Tiger game (Xbox360) 3D experiment.

--> When you used the Samsung PN50A450 plasma to watch the game in 3D, was Xbox306 outputting 720p resolution or 1080p resolution?

The reason I am asking is that I have read somewhere that Samsung PN50A450 can only display 3D (checkerboard) signals correctly on when it receive the signals through HDMI only in 1360x768 resolution. If you were able to display the standard 720p output from Xbox360, then it opens few possibilities for PN50A450 owners to try 3D blu-ray content.

I have a question regarding your Invincible Tiger game (Xbox360) 3D experiment.

--> When you used the Samsung PN50A450 plasma to watch the game in 3D, was Xbox306 outputting 720p resolution or 1080p resolution?

The reason I am asking is that I have read somewhere that Samsung PN50A450 can only display 3D (checkerboard) signals correctly on when it receive the signals through HDMI only in 1360x768 resolution. If you were able to display the standard 720p output from Xbox360, then it opens few possibilities for PN50A450 owners to try 3D blu-ray content.

The only reason that the Xbox would work with the PN50A450 for 3D on both Invincible Tiger and Avatar the game, is because both of those games support DLP Checkerboard. While the PN50A450 is a plasma, it's 3D is compatible with the type used by DLP Checkerboard.

The only way it works is if the Xbox 360 communicates with the PN50A450 via the HDMI port, and then the 360 will output a native 1360 x 768 resolution. If you go into the Xbox dashboard, and go to console settings, and video settings, one of the options will be to have the 360 communicate with the TV via the HDMI port. This allows the 360 to determine the native resolution of the display, and then the 360 will automatically change it's output resolution to the native resolution of the display.