Ok, so I have a home theater with a HD65, Onkyo 606, Klipsh 5.1, and 112 inch screen. I also have basic cable and internet.

I want to watch the bengals on my big screen on Sept 13th. (Insert bengals joke here...)

I want my cable to get routed through the projector. The problem is, we're paying $24 a month for basic (it's very basic) and roadrunner TOGETHER right now. The problem is, if I call the cable company (Time Warner) to get a cable set top box, I have to upgrade to a package that is going to cost my $85 per month. I'm really not into that. It's not that I don't have the money, it's that I don't want to spend it. :)

I figure I have a few options. One is to get an old vcr, hook the coax cable into it and them run component video to my pj out of it. Not cool.

Another option is to get a DVR with a ATSC tuner in with the appropiate antenna to pick up a free OTA channel. I need a "red" antenna for this, I think. I like in 45177 and the bengals are on WKRC 12.1.

What other options do I have? Is there any way that I can route my cable through the pj and get a HD signal on the screen? Or, is the OTA route the only way to get an HD picture on the screen?

HELP! I am running out of time. ha ha ha

Jeremiah

Another option is to get a DVR with a ATSC tuner in with the appropiate antenna to pick up a free OTA channel. I need a "red" antenna for this, I think. I like in 45177 and the bengals are on WKRC 12.1.

Something with an ATSC tuner may have QAM capabilities also and be able to pick up local HD stations from the cable without needing an OTA antenna. There are lots of variables: local cable company design, specs on potential DVR, etc.

I have a JVC DVD Recorder with an ATSC/QAM tuner connected to a small Plasma via HDMI. I don't know, however, if it sending true HD to the TV or if it downconverts to SD (480i) then upconverts back to HD (720p). Even if it converts, the result will be DVD quality even if it's not full HD which is still better than composite from a VCR.

The burning question is, is my cable in this instance totally worthless? Or, will I be able to use it without going to a set top box from the cable company?

Maybe.
Your basic cable package might carry the unencrypted HD feeds from your local stations so that you can use it (the cable) rather than an antenna, connected to a receiver with a ATSC/QAM tuner. You won't know for certain until you connect the cable to a receiver (tuner) and try a scan. Someone on your local forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=45) might know for certain.

There are a few HD ATSC/QAM tuners available (some under $100.). Check the "Set-top Box" sticky thread in the "HDTV Technical" sub-forum (even if the QAM tuner doesn't pick up what you want, you'll still have the ATSC to work with).

If you really want to settle for an SD DVD recorder, consider the Panasonic EZ28 (http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/486738270/panasonic-dmr-ez28k), as it has excellent PQ (and a clear QAM/NTSC/ATSC tuner). It also uses DVD-RAM, which is like having a "mini-hard drive", as far as for time-shifting (do stay away from the DVD/VHS combo model EZ48, though, as it's not really very reliable).

Still, don't expect SD - even digital - to look all that great on a 112" screen. Downscaled HD will, of course, look better than the 480i channels, but still not as good as the real thing.

If you want a QAM/ATSC/NTSC SD DVR instead, there's the Magnavox H2160A (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10104532). But the PQ is not as quite as sharp as the Panny's from it's digital tuner (which would be especially noticable on a 112" screen). Also, their QAM tuners have occasionally been known to be kind of futzy, and sometimes have problems picking up or holding onto all of the clear QAM channels.

The thing that's good about the Magnavox, though, is that you can order it online and pick it up at the store - and if you want or need to return or exchange it, you can bring it right back to the store - no big hassle just to try it.

The H2160A and the EZ28 are actually the two most reliable digital-tunered SD recorders out there these days - it's pretty slim pickings now.

A used LG LST-3410A or a Sony DHG-HDD500/250 HD DVR might not be a bad choice in your case, too - if you can find one.

Otherwise, there's the TiVo HD with lifetime service.

If I go with that magnovox, I have a question. If I use the ATSC tuner, I'm assuming that I need an antenna. That antenna is getting screwed into the Antenna In coax hook up.

If I use my cable via the QAM tuner, doesn't the cable have to screw into the same port? So would I be switching back and forth between the two depending on what channel I'm trying to get?

Plus, I'll be putting this in the basement. How is that going to affect the process?

Just asking, because I don't know, but I'm getting better.

If I go with that magnovox, I have a question. If I use the ATSC tuner, I'm assuming that I need an antenna. That antenna is getting screwed into the Antenna In coax hook up.

If I use my cable via the QAM tuner, doesn't the cable have to screw into the same port? So would I be switching back and forth between the two depending on what channel I'm trying to get?

Plus, I'll be putting this in the basement. How is that going to affect the process?

Just asking, because I don't know, but I'm getting better.

When setting up a any "digital tuner" recorder one needs to choose the type of service connected to the RF input, ATSC (antenna) or clear QAM (cable), not both, and then run the channel scan. These are the only options for recording "digital" signal sources.

In order to have both antenna and cable services recorded on a single "digital tuner" recorder one has to use a second tuning device, either a Coupon Eligible Converter Box (for ATSC antenna reception) or a cable company converter box connected to composite or S-Video inputs (as well as audio input connections) to provide those signals. These connections provide for recording "analog" signals.

A dual-source connection is seen in the first photo. An analog tuner Panasonic DMR-ES35V combo recorder has a Zinwell 970A CECB connected to a composite line input and an unseen Comcast cable converter box is connected to the RF input. When recording from the cable box the recording channel is set to (analog channel) 3; when recording from the Zinwell CECB the recording source is set to Line IN 1. The finger points to the composite output that feeds an unseen TV.

With a "digital tuner" recorder, like the Magnavox ZV450MW8A seen in the second photo, only one external tuning device is necessary for dual-source recording. The Magnavox is connected directly to the Comcast coax cable for clear QAM tuning and recording digital sub-channels. The Zenith DTT901 CECB, connected to an antenna for ATSC reception, is connected to a composite line input on the Magnavox. The Zenith CECB tunes local sub-channels that Comcast does not carry.

An earlier variation of the dual-source setup, with two Zenith CECBs connected to the front and rear composite line inputs of an analog tuner Panasonic DMR-ES15 DVD recorder, is seen in the third photo. Actually a three-source connection could have made use of the Panasonic's RF input.

Will your cable company allow you to rent an HD box without upgrading your service?
This will enable you to pick up the unscrambled QAM channels that normally include the major networks.
If you haven't asked it's worth a try.
At about $10 a month to rent (non DVR) you can always return it after football season!!

That's exaclty what I asked, can I rent one. They said, nope, you're not eligible to rent one unless you upgrade your service.

I'll look for a NTSC/QAM tuner today. Do you guys recommend one? I could really use model numbers and prices.

Thanks!

That's exaclty what I asked, can I rent one. They said, nope, you're not eligible to rent one unless you upgrade your service.

I'll look for a NTSC/QAM tuner today. Do you guys recommend one? I could really use model numbers and prices.

Thanks!
Get a Samsung DTB H260F. As Zaphod wrote, your cable system may (probably does) carry your HD locals unencrypted. If so, you're all set. If not use an antenna, as it does both QAM and ATSC.

Some have recommended this:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4283255&CatId=4641

Ratman, the only knock my uneducated eyes see on that one is that the only audio available would be white/red composite, right? The Samsung in the thread above has hdmi and optical conections for audio. I don't know if the price difference is worth it or not for the samsung?

What else will the samsung do that this one won't, if anything?

It's up to you to decide the importance of digital audio.

$75 for QAM/8VSB tuner w/analog audio (and use Dolby Pro-logic for surround)
$200 for tuner w/digital audio.

Personally, @ a $75 price point, I wouldn't fret over the importance of digital audio when viewing broadcast TV. DPLII does an adequate job for "surround" proccessing.

Can it do DPLII with only one red and and one white output jack? I thought you needed red/white's for front, mains, and surrounds in order to do that?

If you can, the $75 tuner with annolog audio would be just fine! Heck, it might be fine anyways for just tv watching.

Thanks for you help.

Red/White analog audio outputs only stereo. When connected to an audio receiver with DPL, you can get acceptable "surround sound". No one but you will know the difference. :)

Can it do DPLII with only one red and and one white output jack? I thought you needed red/white's for front, mains, and surrounds in order to do that?


ProLogicII is a processing algorithm built into most receivers. It's designed to take stereo signals and make them into a surround sound. I use it (well, ProLogic IIx for my 7.1 system) for every stereo source and it works quite well.

ProLogicII is a processing algorithm built into most receivers. It's designed to take stereo signals and make them into a surround sound.

Well, actually ProLogic II and IIx are matrixing methods, to pack additional channels into a stereo audio mix (up to 5.1 for PLII, 7.1 for PLIIx). You don't get full channel separation, since the additional channels are added out of phase (so same signal, different phase - typical channel separation is somewhere around 20 dB). Due to the way it's implemented, it also has the (handy) side effect of expanding plain stereo content into a pseudo-surround mix, but some material explicitly adds ProLogic II information into the stereo mix (see: many games for the Nintendo Wii) to provide surround effects without using a digital audio connection for something like DD 5.1/DDLive or DTS/DTS Interactive formats.

But anyway, enough of my derail...

Here's a quick fix for the Bengals' game: http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-nfl-blackouts11-2009sep11,0,1023339.story

So what is the best way to get a game showing online up on the wall? Can that even be close to high def? Can you record it somehow and play it later? This is a completely different ball of wax, isn't it?!

The bengals have a huge consecutive sell out streak going right now. But, they haven't sold out the second home game of the season yet, so I have my fingers crossed.

It's probably on par with Hulu's feeds, or maybe a bit less. You can rig it up to your projector if you can connect your computer to it, but no, it won't be high def. I'm sure there is software that can record it if you want to, but expect something like VHS quality at best.

Ratman, the only knock my uneducated eyes see on that one is that the only audio available would be white/red composite, right? The Samsung in the thread above has hdmi and optical conections for audio. I don't know if the price difference is worth it or not for the samsung?

What else will the Samsung do that this one won't, if anything?
The Samsung has composite, S-Video, Component, and HDMI outputs, with resolutions being 480i, 480p, 720p, & 1080i. The optical audio gives you DD5.1 surround sound. Just the press of 1 button toggles you between ATSC and QAM.

Composite and S-video are useless (for HD resolutions).

As suggested in post #13, $75 or $200 for digital audio? Personal choice.

As for HDMI? The extra $125 may or may not provide a dramatic benefit in picture quality. Especially with a FPTV with a native resolution of 720p @ 112".

Also of note:
The DTB H260F is discontinued. So... be careful. You may get a used/refub box if you find one. Caveat Emptor. ;)

The Samsung has composite, S-Video, Component, and HDMI outputs, with resolutions being 480i, 480p, 720p, & 1080i. The optical audio gives you DD5.1 surround sound. Just the press of 1 button toggles you between ATSC and QAM.


How can you toggle with just one button? Wouldn't you need to switch the cable hook up? Go from cable coax to antenna coax along with toggling between atsc and qam? Or, is there two Antenna In ports on the samsung?

$75 or $200 for digital audio? Personal choice.

No, it's $75 - $125 for HD video and digital audio.

480i to 720p is a rather noticeable improvement.

How can you toggle with just one button? Wouldn't you need to switch the cable hook up? Go from cable coax to antenna coax along with toggling between atsc and qam? Or, is there two Antenna In ports on the samsung?
Flipping an A/B switch on the input of the box and one-button toggling on the remote, so, it is a 2 step process. It would be nice if it did have 2 inputs. It does have a pass through antenna port.

No, it's $75 - $125 for HD video and digital audio.

480i to 720p is a rather noticeable improvement.

No... it's a question of:
Is the extra $125 worth it to the OP for digital audio?
Is the extra $125 worth it to the OP for HDMI?
Personal choice. ;)

I don't understand the 480i to 720p comment. Component video supports 720p/1080i, which is HD video.

To note:
The box I suggest does have a DVI-D output, which will provide the same digital video as HDMI when using the proper cable/adapter. :)

I didn't look closely enough to see that the KWORLD STB was was an HD box.

I shall now go away from this thread.

How can you toggle with just one button? Wouldn't you need to switch the cable hook up? Go from cable coax to antenna coax along with toggling between atsc and qam? Or, is there two Antenna In ports on the samsung?

One can't just toggle between ATSC and clear QAM reception with an A/B RF switch. ATSC and QAM are different technologies. Toggling would require a device with two separate and independent tuners.

With an antenna connected to one side of an A/B switch and a raw cable coax feed connected to the other side of the A/B switch would require a new channel scan every time the switch is thrown. A channel scan might take around ten minutes for ATSC sub-channels and twenty or more minutes for clear QAM sub-channels.

One can't just toggle between ATSC and clear QAM reception with an A/B RF switch. ATSC and QAM are different technologies. Toggling would require a device with two separate and independent tuners.

I would agree with that line of thought. Most "single tuner" devices, whether internal or external, do not allow/provide seamless integration of OTA and cable channels. A re-scan is typically required.

So what is the best way to get a game showing online up on the wall? Can that even be close to high def? Can you record it somehow and play it later?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=1431208#post1431208

I would agree with that line of thought. Most "single tuner" devices, whether internal or external, do not allow/provide seamless integration of OTA and cable channels. A re-scan is typically required.

I never have to rescan either my Samsung STB or my TV set.

Probably not... since (I'll guess) the Sammy is actively used for QAM tuning.

Through use of a A/B switch and "antenna passthrough" of the Sammy, you use the Internal ATSC tuner in your TV for OTA.

Therefore... two tuners and no need to re-scan. Feel free to expand or correct my assumptions.

Just trying to get a better understanding about your setup and (exactly) it works for OTA and digital cable.

Probably not... since (I'll guess) the Sammy is actively used for QAM tuning.

Through use of a A/B switch and "antenna passthrough" of the Sammy, you use the Internal ATSC tuner in your TV for OTA.

Therefore... two tuners and no need to re-scan. Feel free to expand or correct my assumptions.

Just trying to get a better understanding about your setup and (exactly) it works for OTA and digital cable.
Alright. To correct your assumptions; I do not use the antenna pass-through on my STB. It's in my A/V closet connected via HDMI to a matrix switch for distribution to all of my TV sets.

My Hitachi TV set, in addition to HDMI, has component (no longer used but you never know...) and r.f. cabling. The r.f. cable comes from an A/B switch, where I can select either OTA or Comcast. Same with the input to my Samsung STB.

"With my TV set to HDMI and my matrix switch set to input 4 (STB) and my A/B switch on "A," I can tune to any of my local ATSC channels via my Samsung. Flip the A/B switch to "B" and toggle the input of the Samsung to QAM, and I tune to any of Comcast's digital channels. Flip back to OTA and ATSC and not only can I tune to any of my local ATSC channels, but it goes right back to the channel I was on prior to toggling the input to QAM.

Exact same thing with my TV set. Never need to rescan.

Both my STB and my TV are usually on OTA (ATSC), not Cable (QAM).

Oh my...
Okay, you have a setup that works for you.

Let's try to bring this to the simplest setup so I can be clear.

The OP has an antenna and a cable feed. How does the Sammy differentiate between OTA and cable RF assignments/frequencies without overlap?

Antenna coax to "A" input on switch.
Cable coax to "B" input on switch.
One coax from output of switch to Sammy.
HDMI from Sammy to TV.

When "A" is selected, you get QAM, when "B" is selected, you get OTA.

No rescanning? Is this essentially how you say it works?

If I go with that magnovox, I have a question. If I use the ATSC tuner, I'm assuming that I need an antenna. That antenna is getting screwed into the Antenna In coax hook up.

If I use my cable via the QAM tuner, doesn't the cable have to screw into the same port? So would I be switching back and forth between the two depending on what channel I'm trying to get?

Just asking, because I don't know, but I'm getting better.

Here is the tuner equipment on a Magnavox 2160 of December 2008 manufacture:

The Magnavox 2160 remote (at the top) has a DTV/TV button (beside the red power button) for switching between "digital" tuning and "analog" tuning.

In the Auto Channel Scan one must specify Antenna (analog and digital signals), Cable (Analog) or Cable (Analog/Digital).

Antenna coax to "A" input on switch.
Cable coax to "B" input on switch.
One coax from output of switch to Sammy.
HDMI from Sammy to TV.

When "A" is selected, you get QAM, when "B" is selected, you get OTA.

No rescanning? Is this essentially how you say it works?
Cable is QAM and OTA is ATSC. In your description, you listed them backwards.

Other than that, you are correct. No rescanning needed regardless of what the input is.

Yeah okay... typo. You know what I meant.

I guess we'll have to take your word that the Sammy has an integrated "single" tuner for cable and OTA simultaneously.

On a single input (being the coax/RF input)... Scan once for OTA/ATSC on A setting, scan again for NTSC/QAM on B setting and the Sammy can seamlessy remember/differentiate between the two by merely flipping an external switch.

That's one great box! I wonder why it's been discontinued?

Yeah okay... typo. You know what I meant.

I guess we'll have to take your word that the Sammy has an integrated "single" tuner for cable and OTA simultaneously.

On a single input (being the coax/RF input)... Scan once for OTA/ATSC on A setting, scan again for NTSC/QAM on B setting and the Sammy can seamlessy remember/differentiate between the two by merely flipping an external switch.

That's one great box! I wonder why it's been discontinued?
Forgot about the line in post #22 where I wrote "Flip the A/B switch to "B" and toggle the input of the Samsung to QAM, and I tune to any of Comcast's digital channels. Flip back to OTA and ATSC and not only can I tune to any of my local ATSC channels, but it goes right back to the channel I was on prior to toggling the input to QAM."

One tuner can't differentiate between the two since, as you had written earlier, cable and OTA share some frequencies.

Ok, so I have a home theater with a HD65, Onkyo 606, Klipsh 5.1, and 112 inch screen. I also have basic cable and internet.

I want to watch the bengals on my big screen on Sept 13th. (Insert bengals joke here...)

I want my cable to get routed through the projector. The problem is, we're paying $24 a month for basic (it's very basic) and roadrunner TOGETHER right now. The problem is, if I call the cable company (Time Warner) to get a cable set top box, I have to upgrade to a package that is going to cost my $85 per month. I'm really not into that. It's not that I don't have the money, it's that I don't want to spend it. :)

I figure I have a few options. One is to get an old vcr, hook the coax cable into it and them run component video to my pj out of it. Not cool.

Another option is to get a DVR with a ATSC tuner in with the appropiate antenna to pick up a free OTA channel. I need a "red" antenna for this, I think. I like in 45177 and the bengals are on WKRC 12.1.

What other options do I have? Is there any way that I can route my cable through the pj and get a HD signal on the screen? Or, is the OTA route the only way to get an HD picture on the screen?

HELP! I am running out of time. ha ha ha

Jeremiah


If you want you should PM me with your phone number and I can set you up with a HD box that also outputs 5.1 DD and we'll work out a deal...You can have it ready to go...It integrates everything you want...

Also you will want to use WHIO out of Dayton anyway for one it is closer and the second they broadcast in 5.1 :cool:...WKRC only broadcasts in 2.0:(...

Also I am in Blanchester and can show you how everything works and how to set up...It will be to your advantage to contact me ASAP...I just had knee surgery so will be home this weekend to get the Bungals...errr...Bengals for you...Personally we are going to catch the Vikings/Browns game ;) ...But I'll probably jump to see the Bungals...errr...Bengals just to see how they are doing...

Whoever was the one who said the Bengals SECOND home game is not sold out is mistaken...That is the Bengals/Steelers game and has been sold out for quite some time now...There is also 1 other sold out in advance home game but I can't think of the team we are playing right now...

Super... clear as mud now! Hope the OP finds solution that is easy and inexpensive.

Especially now that Splicer010 is starting a side business (and the meds have kicked in). :)

My head is spinning!!!

Splicer, pm me immediately! I have a family reunion in Chillicothe tomorrow afternoon/evening, that follows the soccer game my son has in the morning. Then, I have an Ohio Concealed Carry Training class I have to teach on Sunday at the Clinton County Farmers and Sportsmen Association that will be all day long (12 hour course). If you could pm me your phone number, I'll give you a call during one of the hours I'm in the car tomorrow and we'll try to get something set up!

From what I seen, the game was just going to be on WKRC from Cincy until Krogers and WHIO went in together to buy the rest of the tickets so the game wouldn't be blacked out. I agree, if the game is on WHIO, that station is a little closer to me.

Later, Jeremiah.

Alright I'll PM you...But if you have a 12 hour course you'll miss the show...

And it was Krogers & WKRC that bought the tickets out...Had that not have happened the game would have been blacked out on any CBS station with-in a 75 mile radius including BOTH WKRC & WHIO...WHIO will give the superior audio track for the game...You DO have an antenna setup already yes???

Ratman...;)...Yeah the meds kicked in just fine thanks...:D...But I thought I made it clear enough & Jeremiahm seemed to grasp it fairly well...;)

Alright I'll PM you...But if you have a 12 hour course you'll miss the show...

And it was Krogers & WKRC that bought the tickets out...Had that not have happened the game would have been blacked out on any CBS station with-in a 75 mile radius including BOTH WKRC & WHIO...WHIO will give the superior audio track for the game...You DO have an antenna setup already yes???

Ratman...;)...Yeah the meds kicked in just fine thanks...:D...But I thought I made it clear enough & Jeremiahm seemed to grasp it fairly well...;)


That's what I get for listening to second hand info...

I scheduled the class yesterday after the 1:00 Thursday deadline for selling out to avoid the blackout. The deadline got extended until 1:00 today, and guess what. ha ha

Now, off to my pm's....