http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9430/12monkeyshdr1artpic.jpghttp://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8827/12monkeysbd3d.jpg

15.29Mbps VC-1 | HD DVD | United States | Universal | 2006-10-24
28.66Mbps VC-1 | Blu-ray | United States | Universal | 2009-07-28

HD DVD bitrate and frame size/type graphs
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7831/12monkeyshdbitrate01s.pnghttp://img25.imageshack.us/img25/1951/12monkeyshdframesize.png
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5975/12monkeyshdframetypecou.pnghttp://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7911/12monkeyshdframetypesiz.png
Blu-ray bitrate and frame size/type graphs
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3544/12monkeysbdbitrate01s.pnghttp://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3741/12monkeysbdframesize.png
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/4075/12monkeysbdframetypecou.pnghttp://img188.imageshack.us/img188/2905/12monkeysbdframetypesiz.png
Screencap comparison - Mouseovers here (http://comparescreenshots.slicx.com/comparison/14118/) (click Stop on this thread to not waste time downloading from both servers)
http://chidragon.thedessie.com/bdcomp/12mcomp/0-10-43_A.pnghttp://chidragon.thedessie.com/bdcomp/12mcomp/0-10-43_B.png
http://chidragon.thedessie.com/bdcomp/12mcomp/0-22-03_A.pnghttp://chidragon.thedessie.com/bdcomp/12mcomp/0-22-03_B.png
http://chidragon.thedessie.com/bdcomp/12mcomp/0-29-08_A.pnghttp://chidragon.thedessie.com/bdcomp/12mcomp/0-29-08_B.png
http://chidragon.thedessie.com/bdcomp/12mcomp/0-44-28_A.pnghttp://chidragon.thedessie.com/bdcomp/12mcomp/0-44-28_B.png
http://chidragon.thedessie.com/bdcomp/12mcomp/0-56-18_A.pnghttp://chidragon.thedessie.com/bdcomp/12mcomp/0-56-18_B.png
http://chidragon.thedessie.com/bdcomp/12mcomp/0-57-28_A.pnghttp://chidragon.thedessie.com/bdcomp/12mcomp/0-57-28_B.png
http://chidragon.thedessie.com/bdcomp/12mcomp/1-04-01_A.pnghttp://chidragon.thedessie.com/bdcomp/12mcomp/1-04-01_B.png
http://chidragon.thedessie.com/bdcomp/12mcomp/1-09-05_A.pnghttp://chidragon.thedessie.com/bdcomp/12mcomp/1-09-05_B.png
http://chidragon.thedessie.com/bdcomp/12mcomp/1-43-53_A.pnghttp://chidragon.thedessie.com/bdcomp/12mcomp/1-43-53_B.png

The Blu-ray is definitely better, but even its bitrate isn't high enough for this content. And the disc does still have over 7GB empty.

The HD DVD more consistently softens up the picture, while the Blu-ray sometimes has frames with blocking interspersed with softer frames. Also, it often pulsates between really grainy and sharp on one frame vs a softened picture the next - back and forth - every other frame. This seems to be related to the fact that it has some really small frame sizes immediately followed by 300KB+ to make up for it.

Better, but... could've been better still.

Better, but... could've been better still.
I'm thrilled that Universal isn't just recycling encodes and at least trying to use some of BDs extras muscle, and putting lossless audio on all titles(cough...Warner...cough), and that they stopped DNRing after the first wave(cough...Paramount...cough).

They might beat Disney this year for best BD releases.:D

The Blu-ray is definitely better, but even its bitrate isn't high enough for this content. And the disc does still have over 7GB empty.

Better, but... could've been better still.
The Blu-ray encode has a healthy average video bitrate, but I think the peaks are somewhat limited. Studio encoders have gotten stingier and stingier with encoding peaks as Blu-ray has matured. Discs used to regularly top 40 Mbps in momentary peaks, but more and more I see recent encodes that hit a wall near that figure. The relentless drive to include extras that suck up bandwidth might be a cause for this behavior.

Maybe, but the frame size graph shows plenty of large frames. There's also no PiP on this one to suck up bandwidth (I assume that's what you mean by extras, since separate special features wouldn't have an effect on bandwidth).

On the other hand, adding up the average bitrates of the many audio and subtitle tracks amounts to ~8.72Mbps so they may well be skirting the limits thanks to those.

WOW impressive improvements. This studio shall be rewarded with my cash.

Nice...hopefully we'll see similar (or greater) improvements for Waterworld.

Not unless they did a new transfer.

I'm thrilled that Universal isn't just recycling encodes and at least trying to use some of BDs extras muscle, and putting lossless audio on all titles(cough...Warner...cough), and that they stopped DNRing after the first wave(cough...Paramount...cough).




Its so simple isn't it?

Whats with the blocking in the car window on the BRD ?

Honestly, I can't tell the difference in most shots and for the others Blu-ray looks very slightly better and sometimes HD DVD does.

Perhaps it will be more clear in motion rather than static screen caps.

Not much of an improvement, in my opinion. I'll be keeping my HD DVD copy on this one. I'm viewing the shots on a 42" 1080p LCD at 2 feet.

I can see a difference but its so minute. I do prefer my movies not to be DNR'd but its definitely not worth spending the extra money (at least for me).

Why are the size of the .png files different?

Why are the size of the .png files different?

It's lossless compression, so the smaller files are more efficiently compressed by the algorithm due to differing image content. It's not necessarily a hard-and-fast rule, but the less detail, the smaller a PNG file should be. A mostly-black frame will be very small indeed.

Whats with the blocking in the car window on the BRD ?

That is most strange; outside of that, though, it is abundantly clear that the grain is so much better resolved throughout on the BD.

Whats with the blocking in the car window on the BRD ?

I double-checked this with my disc on my setup: I cannot spot something like this on my setup. So it's definitely not the disc, that causes this blocking.

Did you pause it on that exact frame?

As I stated, one frame will have the blocking and the next will be smooth with my PC decoders.

Did you pause it on that exact frame?

As I stated, one frame will have the blocking and the next will be smooth with my PC decoders.

Yes, I'm pretty sure I did, and really double-checked. I checked it with my Oppo player, but I don't know if it skips frames though. I also checked it with PowerDVD, but there I wasn't able to stop at exact that frame - PowerDVD sucks in this regard... But besides that I couldn't spot something like that with PowerDVD either. Maybe it's your "PC"? I encountered pixelation/blocking with PowerDVD on some other discs, too, that didn't occur on my Oppo or on the PS3...

But maybe someone else might want to check this too.

EDIT: I checked it one more time now (for the third time), to make sure it's exactly that frame: It is - no such blocking on that frame on my setup.

and putting lossless audio on all titles(cough...Warner...cough)

warner has gotten alot better about that... the last movie i can find from them without lossless was "spring breakdown" back in june and they already released one tv season (supernatural season 4) without lossless

and they have kept to their promise of lossless for all future catalog titles (i don't think we can really count the non-UCE casablanca since it's just a re-packaging of an existing disc)

warner has gotten alot better about that... the last movie i can find from them without lossless was "spring breakdown" back in june and they already released one tv season (supernatural season 4) without lossless

and they have kept to their promise of lossless for all future catalog titles (i don't think we can really count the non-UCE casablanca since it's just a re-packaging of an existing disc)

The Sarah Connor Chronicles Season 2 releasing next week only has DD5.1. Guess that promise only applies to their movie division.

Back on topic I'm glad Universal stopped running scratch and dirt removal on their older transfers which removed a layer of grain and detail along with the dirt (Gladiator not included since we don't know who screwed that up). Hasn't been a Mummy-like downgrade in a while.

The keyword is catalog. New releases can still get the shaft so they can double dip.

Not unless they did a new transfer.
Indeed. Waterworld needs so much work that just improving the bit rate won't bring that much of a visual improvement.

It needs to be remastered with the extended scenes inserted a la Gladiator (minus the DNR :p).

<snip>
EDIT: I checked it one more time now (for the third time), to make sure it's exactly that frame: It is - no such blocking on that frame on my setup.

Thanks for checking it out.

I guess I spoke too rashly by saying "decoders" plural. It appears to be a libavcodec bug, or something. Here's the same frame taken with another decoder:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6006/05728bsonic.th.png (http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6006/05728bsonic.png)

It seems that ffdshow/libavcodec isn't deblocking some frames of this stream. Others are visually identical.

On the other hand, adding up the average bitrates of the many audio and subtitle tracks amounts to ~8.72Mbps [correction: 10Mbps+] so they may well be skirting the limits thanks to those.

Also, duh, I could've just checked the total bitrate which is 39.69Mbps, so they probably couldn't have increased the video any more without dropping some audio tracks. Or they could've just lowered that wasteful 24-bit audio down to 16-bit. ;)

Thanks for checking it out.
You're welcome.

Here's the same frame taken with another decoder:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6006/05728bsonic.th.png (http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6006/05728bsonic.png)
That's what it looks like on my setup. So after all, it's good to know, that the disc is fine :).