I've never really read a bunch of car audio posts here, so it got me to thinking: Does anyone here approach their car audio the way they approach their home system? I'm not talking overall volume the way the boom car guys do, but I'm talking a good overall sounding system, custom built, with detail given to acoustics, perhaps computer modeling, etc.

I know this is all available with high end stock systems, I'm talking a custom system that simply sounds good.

No. Any audiophile know the listening space is most critical for absolute sound quality. A car's interior is a terrible space (not to mention no cars I am ware of low NC30 noise levels):D

Curt, I'm sure its easy for you and your car to sound as good as your home theater given those multiple CRT projectors on at the same time in your theater.!!!@@@

For once I agree with Mr Bland fully!!!@@

I will say that when I purchased a Lexus LS430 with the Mark Levenson system, I had to upgrade my home system as a result. FM radio often sounded better than CD at home. (I didn't spring for ML components though...two kids in college)
Paul

When I was younger, I had an elaborate car stereo. It had separates, subs, parametric eq, and three different amps,mostly Alpine amps and Boston Acoustic separates. During my college years, there were parties called "all nighters." For 10.00 you could drink as much as you wanted and the party did not end to sunrise and sometimes 9 or 10 am. New Orleans is a 24 hour city with no curfew and at the time very very lax drinking laws. One of my fraternity brothers started the "all nighters." His dad owned a liquor store so he got the stuff wholesale. During one of these parties, my car was "hit" for the third time by the local radio thiefs. Finally I just got sick of replacing broken windows and running down and beating up, the bad guys who had stolen my stuff and gave up. My Jeep has an AM/FM radio and factory speakers.

I don't, but there certainly are people who do. They are far outnumbered by the boom car aficionados though, sadly.

I like listening to my stereo with my eyes closed. This is very difficult to do while driving a car. Not impossible, but... ;)

I am sure there are people who try, but it would be one difficult challenge. I recently saw a guy put a ribbon tweeter on his A pillar. Unfortunately, it was partially obscured by the driver's instrument console.

I will say that when I purchased a Lexus LS430 with the Mark Levenson system, I had to upgrade my home system as a result. FM radio often sounded better than CD at home. (I didn't spring for ML components though...two kids in college)
Paul

That's not saying much for your home system...:D

No. Any audiophile know the listening space is most critical for absolute sound quality. A car's interior is a terrible space (not to mention no cars I am ware of low NC30 noise levels):D

It's possible, just not easy. http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-build-logs/63757-1997-honda-accord-complete-damping.html

I run a full active system in my car and it sounds pretty good. The people that are really into car audio SQ compete in organizations like IASCA, USAC and MECA. The cars take 100's of ours to build some even more.

Check out this video of Scott Buwalda's IASCA presentation.

7sBaa61Uz3g

There are a few cars that sound as good as some high end 2 channel home systems but those cars have been completely rebuild from the inside.

Curt you should check out http://www.hzemall.com/main_page.htm (hzemall.com/main_page.htm) One of the few guys from Canada that has built a car that has one an IASCA world championship.

There are actually car audio hobbyists that do approach audio as scientists (I prefer that word to the word audiophile which typically means superstition). Look up the name Richard Clarke and include a term such as car audio.

Jeff is correct that the car is not a good audio environment but that is exactly what makes it a challenge to these guys. They do everything possible to create an environment where a person actually hears a good stereo (and/or surround) presentation and they go to all sorts of lengths to do it such as using center channels, building speakers into unique places in the dashboard and so on. For the real car audio guys it's not all about making their car shake as they drive down the boulevard any more than for the real audio scientist it's about using $3000 snake oil interconnects ;).

There are actually car audio hobbyists that do approach audio as scientists (I prefer that word to the word audiophile which typically means superstition). Look up the name Richard Clarke and include a term such as car audio.

Jeff is correct that the car is not a good audio environment but that is exactly what makes it a challenge to these guys. They do everything possible to create an environment where a person actually hears a good stereo (and/or surround) presentation and they go to all sorts of lengths to do it such as using center channels, building speakers into unique places in the dashboard and so on. For the real car audio guys it's not all about making their car shake as they drive down the boulevard any more than for the real audio scientist it's about using $3000 snake oil interconnects ;).
Q,
Richard Clark bought and "improved" an existing vehicle which was a perennial NACA/IASCA champion built by Eric Holdaway at Speakerworks.

I built and co-designed many competitive IASCA cars, but I haven't had any real components in any car since 2001.

That car was a fully active a/d/s/ system with a/d/s/ amplification and separates with a JL 10w6 in an enclosure designed and (over)built by me, and an Alpine deck, and it sounded fabulous by ANYONE'S standards.

I always love a good car audio system, but they have their intrinsic limitations. At best, aside from background noise, it's like having a nice home system where I sit near one loudspeaker, someone sits near the other, etc., and we listen to music.

You can keep all your 1000w subwoofers, and all that other BS, for your Ricer douche wagons

The only sound I want to hear, in all its audiophile glory, is the roar of the Cavallino.

in Russo Rubino... :)
One of mine was white ... what a drag.

pre-restoration

Respect......to another member of the Tifosi.

i watched the episode of top gear recently where they drove the Pagini Zonda, the Ford GT and a ferrari (apologies for not recalling the model) across france. i would not even want a stereo with one of those!

However since the odds of me ever getting one is about the same as me spontaneously bursting into flames... i roll with the factory radio in my saturn ion baby!!!

I tried to get great sound in my car but those pesky fiberglass panels aren't easy to see through!

By the time I cut enough holes in the panels to see through they were useless! :eek:

It's ultimately a matter of what's realistic given the environment. My system in my car is virtually invisible, yet embarrasses many home systems that some take enormous pride in.

When people eschew car audio as a silly ricer hobby, that tells me they have no idea how or where to begin, in terms of developing a great mobile sound environment. Personally, I can't stand leaving the house and getting into my car, only to have terrible sound quality on the road.

Thanks JP, your approach (and others here) make sense. I spend far more time listening to music in the car than I ever do at home, I can't remember the last time when I sat down to listen to good 2 channel stereo, and one day I will actually build up something around my Martin Logans.. one day. :)

I am building up a cheapie system in my rebuilt Toyota Paseo, with equipment bought and repaired off eBay. I think I'll come in well under $500 total, for a system that should sound decent. I'm not the world's best car installer, but am working with what I have.

Thanks JP, your approach (and others here) make sense. I spend far more time listening to music in the car than I ever do at home, I can't remember the last time when I sat down to listen to good 2 channel stereo, and one day I will actually build up something around my Martin Logans.. one day. :)

I am building up a cheapie system in my rebuilt Toyota Paseo, with equipment bought and repaired off eBay. I think I'll come in well under $500 total, for a system that should sound decent. I'm not the world's best car installer, but am working with what I have.

Care to list what you bought???

I've never really read a bunch of car audio posts here, so it got me to thinking: Does anyone here approach their car audio the way they approach their home system? I'm not talking overall volume the way the boom car guys do, but I'm talking a good overall sounding system, custom built, with detail given to acoustics, perhaps computer modeling, etc.

I know this is all available with high end stock systems, I'm talking a custom system that simply sounds good.


My Alpine pre-amp/cd drive, Boston Acoustics( older pro series), a/d/s pq20's, and audiocontrol system is top notch sonics...and will play very loud/clean.

i have Focals, Audison Amp, JL small sub (stealthbox), and Alpine head unit in my car.

i spend so much time in LA driving, i consider it mandatory. its is very clean with no boom.

i really would like to try my Audison Lrx amp at home....it is very well built:

http://www.audison.eu/index_main.php?Section=LRX41k

Care to list what you bought???

Sure:

Sony deck (I'll edit with the model number later, the fiance has the car)- customer return unit on eBay, a few years old. Looked new except for the spliced wiring harness- $60
1- eBay mounting kit: $10.
1- Audio Control EQX crossover/eq: $100.00
3- Pioneer amps- 125 watts/chan into 4 ohms: $100 for three, defective. Easy repairs, 2 had a cracked PC trace, one had an open ground.
4- 6.5" Goldmund woofers from Parts Express: $160
4- Goldmund dome tweeters from Parts Express: $60
1- Eminence 15" subwoofer- may not need it- $150 a few years ago.
2- Aura bass shakers- years ago from Parts Express- $60 for two.

Almost everything above save for the PE stuff came from eBay.

The four 6.5" woofers are on a 1/2" plywood piece, with 4" of thick foam wedged between the rear deck and the wood. Not pretty, but gives excellent acoustical isolation. THey fire through the 6" stock grilles Two dome tweeters in the back deck are visible

15" woofer will fire through the back seats. I might not need it, it's not installed yet.

Front door speakers are stock for now, they are only fill anyways.

Two more domes in the upper door panels.

Aura shakers below each front seat.

Everything will be hidden save for the 4 dome tweeters.

Real time analysis will be done via the Goldline analyzer I have via the Audio Control unit.

My goal was to do this on the dirt cheap with eBay bought stuff. THe only thing I bought at retail were the Parts Express speakers, as I didn't like what I saw at the time on eBay.

I have several other eBay bought amps, a Kenwood, a couple of original Rodeks currently in my Rav 4, and a 4 channel high power Alpine, so I'm not lacking power availability.

My plan was to work on this over the summer, but then I got sidetracked. With luck, I'll have the amp box built this weekend so we can have tunes again in the car. I will mount 3 amps and the crossover in a sealed carpeted cabinet, power in one side, speakers out the other. I'm mounting forced air fan cooling on one side, which will blow through the amps, as overheating amps are always an issue in car stereo installations. Fans will turn on with the ignition wire of the deck. Everything will be located in the trunk, with the amp box being removable in case of a flat tire. :)

When I get it done, I'll post pix. It won't be the prettiest installation, but it will be fully functional. It's far from a show car with a 3 year old in the mix, but I like to crank it once in a while.

Sure:

Sony deck (I'll edit with the model number later, the fiance has the car)- customer return unit on eBay, a few years old. Looked new except for the spliced wiring harness- $60
1- eBay mounting kit: $10.
1- Audio Control EQX crossover/eq: $100.00
3- Pioneer amps- 125 watts/chan into 4 ohms: $100 for three, defective. Easy repairs, 2 had a cracked PC trace, one had an open ground.
4- 6.5" Goldmund woofers from Parts Express: $160
4- Goldmund dome tweeters from Parts Express: $60
1- Eminence 15" subwoofer- may not need it- $150 a few years ago.
2- Aura bass shakers- years ago from Parts Express- $60 for two.

Almost everything above save for the PE stuff came from eBay.

The four 6.5" woofers are on a 1/2" plywood piece, with 4" of thick foam wedged between the rear deck and the wood. Not pretty, but gives excellent acoustical isolation. THey fire through the 6" stock grilles Two dome tweeters in the back deck are visible

15" woofer will fire through the back seats. I might not need it, it's not installed yet.

Front door speakers are stock for now, they are only fill anyways.

Two more domes in the upper door panels.

Aura shakers below each front seat.

Everything will be hidden save for the 4 dome tweeters.

Real time analysis will be done via the Goldline analyzer I have via the Audio Control unit.

My goal was to do this on the dirt cheap with eBay bought stuff. THe only thing I bought at retail were the Parts Express speakers, as I didn't like what I saw at the time on eBay.


.

With most of your speakers at the back your imaging is going to suck. You should ditch the speakers in the rear altogether.
You should read this first:
http://www.teamaudionutz.com/tutorial/2/SQ_system_Set-Ups_and_the_Theories_Behind_Them

and than this:
http://www.teamaudionutz.com/tutorials

If you ever want to sell your Rodeks let me know.

www.diymobileaudio.com

Zero BS, focuses on install and not silly tales kids tell each other.

I actually got into home theater after learning to design, plan and install car audio. It has been many years but with good sound deadening material, custom kick panels, custom subs and mid bass...add eq and enough power...it can be very rewarding. My last system used Focal drivers (supposedly same as the grand utopia), JL amps and subs.

If anyone gets a chance, you should check out the Burmester system that's an option in the new Porsche Panamera.

I used to discount car audio until I heard this...just incredible.

I must divulge that I do some work for Porsche and have been in Panameras for several months now. I even got to spend time with Dieter Burmester. He accomplished the result by being around in the initial design stages of the car for not only speaker placement, but structural integrity for how the speakers are mounted as well as the volume an type of space behind the speakers.

I cannot argue being biased, but I truly feel this is the best car audio system I've heard, and bests most home systems that my friend think sound great (not saying much there though).

You should take your own demo disc to evaluate properly - just like any home audio piece. Using Sat or radio just doesn't have the same impact.

I always love a good car audio system, but they have their intrinsic limitations. At best, aside from background noise, it's like having a nice home system where I sit near one loudspeaker, someone sits near the other, etc., and we listen to music.

It's not the same; a properly setup car audio system will have center vocal imaging at the center of the windshield and the soundstage will spread from A-pillar to A-pillar for both the passenger and the driver, WITHOUT a center channel. The speaker drivers themselves are not localized as a sound source as they would in your example "scenario".

Mike, I have to agree with others here, unless you're going to build a car where the driver sits right in the middle of the vehicle, you're never going to get ideal imaging.

NO, I"m absolutely not into car audio at the level of the guys that spend $1000s of dollars, and I'm sorry, a TUBE amp in a car? I think even the most seasoned audiophiles here would agree, that's just silly. No question it got the installer/designer a LOT of publicity though, and that's most likely exactly what he got.

I did have some vintage JBL components in an old Toyota, the 2405 bullets were sweet, and survived when someone tried to rip them off.

I like my car audio, but my goal usually is to get a decent sounding system for as cheap as possible. I have yet to finish off the Paseo, I guess I'll dive into it next spring again.

I read 2 reviews where Lincoln's received positive feedback about their sound quality. I believe one was in C-Net and the other was in Sound and Vision. Conclusion in both reviews was identical: Sound is as good as it is achievable in a car. I believe their equipment is also THX-certified for what it is worth.

Then there is also Lexus with Mark Levinson equipment in it. However, C-net reviewer found Lincoln's sound to be slightly superior in comparison.

Reading these reviews made me curious. My car's acoustics is so bad, I don't even listen to music in it. I use my high end IEMs when I want to listen to something. And I know before someone jumps, it is not a good idea!

I used to think good sound in a car was impossible. But this set-up in the Panamera completely changed my opinion. And yes, it even images! I don't know how, but it does, although not to the degree of my home set-up.

I was blown away on all different genres. There are some algorithms or "effects" which I also think are completely useless, but what Burmester did, these effects have a pretty desirable effect. He told me one of them just got approved for a patent.

I asked Burmester the how's and why's, and his answer wasn't all that simple, but the jist of it is that he was there from the early design stages of the base car which gave him a good foundation, and that it is mostly near-field listening, whereas in a home set-up you are much farther away from the speakers, which then makes the room a potential spoiler.

All I know is that when I get a Panamera, it'll have the Burmester system in it. It's a $4K option - what else can you get from Burmester for that cheap?

Please don't blast me until you hear it for yourself. I have already divulged my potential bias, but I have been in home audio/video for many years now and have gone round and round with different gear and different theories. I'd like to think I'm objective, which is why I say you always need to judge things for yourself.

In the $20K+ forum I guess I expect something a little different.

All I know is that I completely discounted Auto Audio until hearing the Panamera's Burmester system (not the Bose).

If you've got $20K to dump in your audio (this forum), I kinda figured the Panamera was on the radar. 20K in audio is way out there for the general public listening to iPods and happy with them. Since the Panamera's base price is +89K+, and $132+ for the turbo, it's sort of about right so I thought...I guess I'm off base...sorry I mentioned it...I'll move on now.

I have custom one off sytems in both my BMW's. It is utter nonsense for someone to say one cannot get good imaging/sound in a car. I also have a friend with a 997 TT. He has a custom 4x6" stealth subbox, Morel speakers and Audison amps and prosessor. Gary S., who has won numerous Acadamy awards for sound engineering, tuned the car. It sounds almost as good as my $60,000.0 home stereo.

I have custom one off sytems in both my BMW's. It is utter nonsense for someone to say one cannot get good imaging/sound in a car. I also have a friend with a 997 TT. He has a custom 4x6" stealth subbox, Morel speakers and Audison amps and prosessor. Gary S., who has won numerous Acadamy awards for sound engineering, tuned the car. It sounds almost as good as my $60,000.0 home stereo.

I installed Oz Audio speakers after they won a perfect score @ IASCA. JL Audio subs in a custom tuned box in the trunk with Dynamat. I went the Alpine route to get a DVD player and 5.1 processing. The problem is the center channel. This is where you need a custom designed dash. You can tune the timing just like a home processor, and parametric EQ to assist with your seating position. It sounds really nice I must admit, acoustics in a car and home are totally different. No real nulls to deal with in such a small area. Buildup is in the trunk with the rear seats acting as absorbers to some degree. I found if you spend $5-10K on the car it should sound like you spent over double that in your home. Now if I could just get my Genelec speakers into my car. LOL

I think it take that kind of commitment (above), and even then the tough part becomes the resultant rattles and other stress on all the many interior parts in such a small "room".

I installed Oz Audio speakers after they won a perfect score @ IASCA. JL Audio subs in a custom tuned box in the trunk with Dynamat. I went the Alpine route to get a DVD player and 5.1 processing. The problem is the center channel. This is where you need a custom designed dash.

The Alpine SBS-05DC center sounds great in my Kenwood 5.1 car system.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500SBS05DC/Alpine-SBS-05DC.html?tp=108
I use PLII music decoding on stereo sources to produce surround sound.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3522/3978486494_405a853489.jpg

I think it take that kind of commitment (above), and even then the tough part becomes the resultant rattles and other stress on all the many interior parts in such a small "room".

You can use spray foam, and other sound deadening materials. Just don't spray it where moving parts are like windows and door locks.. lol.

One thing that is different between when I was 18 and now, is that I want accurate bass. I remember riding in Harrisburg, PA and a decent sized Biker Gang rode up next to me at a red light. I distinctly remember the rider next to my window start to groove and wiggle on his bike. Obviously it was to poke fun at my loud obnoxious music that I shared (forced) on everyone. It was humorous to watch. I used to ride with ear plugs in my ears. Oh how crazy and stupid kids can be.

Now I don't want anyone to know what is in my car. Don't need people following me home to break into my car, etc. So the whole point is that having an excellent audio room in my home has allowed me to enjoy my car without rattles and without sounding like a roaming disco.

The Alpine SBS-05DC center sounds great in my Kenwood 5.1 car system.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500SBS05DC/Alpine-SBS-05DC.html?tp=108
I use PLII music decoding on stereo sources to produce surround sound.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3522/3978486494_405a853489.jpg

I have the alpine center speaker only because it fits in my car. It's crap compared to my other speakers. I don't watch movies unless power is out after a hurricane. And the past 2 years we have been lucky. The center channel is better than nothing (for movies). I listen in 4.1 for everyday music on Sirius.

Hello,
I used to have an audiophile system in my previous car. I was running dual component sets of Focal 165K2 Poly Kevlar speakers, a JL Audio 12W7 Prowedge, JL 1000/1 subwoofer amplifier and two JL Audio 300/2 amplifiers to drive the Focal's. The Source was an Alpine CDA-7949 and also used multiple capacitors and an Ultima Yellow Top Battery.

My new car Infiniti M45 made it all but impossible to incorporate any of my prior gear. About the only thing I could do was tap the rear deck speaker leads from the Blose system to send a signal to the 1000/1 and use the Prowedge.

I ended up selling off all of my gear to a friend and listen to talk radio in the car. After having a high resolution system in your car, it is difficult to listen to music in a Blose OEM system.
Cheers,
AD

Tips:

1. If you want really good sound in your car, do not waste money on a "premium" factory setup. 99% of these are still polished turds. Take it to a true custom shop and spend less for better sound.

2. Avoid listening to "experts" here that have never heard a good mobile system, relying on old wives' tales about the limitations.

If you care about sound, you care about it in the car. We all spend way too much time there. Do not be scared off by silly nonsense and consult a pro. Even better, learn your vehicle and DIY the sucker. Just please read up on tips and techniques, remembering you will also have to learn your vehicle's electrical system as well.

There is a car audio forum where this topic might be better served.

I've heard many very good car audio systems, but they still suffer from near-side bias. Would anyone put together at home a stereo "audiophile" system comprising four loudspeakers arranged in a rectangle, and then put a chair in front of each speaker? "Here, I'll sit near this speaker, you sit in front of that one …"

I've heard many very good car audio systems, but they still suffer from near-side bias. Would anyone put together at home a stereo "audiophile" system comprising four loudspeakers arranged in a rectangle, and then put a chair in front of each speaker? "Here, I'll sit near this speaker, you sit in front of that one …"

That's an easy one. You have to groove to the music in a circular pattern while you're driving. Singing is optional. ;) Or Drive a McLaren F1 for the optimal single seated position in the middle.

There is a car audio forum where this topic might be better served.


No, I specifically wanted input from audiophiles, not guys that put $10K worth of woofers and amps into a Honda, crank it up and call it 'stereo'.*







*playing hard core rap or hiphop is NOT optional with those systems. Word. :D

It's not the same; a properly setup car audio system will have center vocal imaging at the center of the windshield and the soundstage will spread from A-pillar to A-pillar for both the passenger and the driver, WITHOUT a center channel. The speaker drivers themselves are not localized as a sound source as they would in your example "scenario".

To a person seated in the middle of my back seat, yes, it would be imaged at the center of the windshield.

To persons seated elsewhere, near side bias would indeed distort the imaging. That's not to say that you can't enjoy listening in the car; I do all the time. As long as you can deal with the elevated background noise and near side bias--and the human brain is pretty adaptable at that--it can be very pleasurable, even if less than ideal.

Singing is optional. ;)

When I drive, I'm Ian Gillan, Jon Lord, and Richie Blackmore all rolled into one. Even though I'm a bass player. ;)

I put over $10k into a '96 Camaro a long while back. It is still my reference for what I strive to do (and will spend a lot more money doing) in my home. The car had:

- Illusion audio CH-1 horns (helped imaging a lot, but sacrified some tonality which had to be cured by 1/3rd Octave EQs). Power, Zapco C2K 2.0.

- DLS 6.5" mid-bass in each door - originally Image Dynamics, but they weren't efficient enough and couldn't keep up with the horns without overheating the VC. I went through a few of them before the DLS brand released a set that would work. Pity, I only had them in there for the IASCA nationals competition (in which I took 3rd in the novice SQ 600+ class) before everything was stolen :(. Power, Zapco C2K 6.0.

- 2 Image Dynamics ID-MAX 12's in a sealed enclosure where the t-tops would have gone. Power, Zapco C2K 9.0.

- Lots of Dynamat throughout the doors, trunk, firewall, and floor.

I had a full active setup with 2 Zapco 1/3 Octave EQ-30s to tame the response and a SX-SL crossover. Sub at 40Hz, mid to horns at around 3 Khz.

The car could hit 150 DB @ 60 HZ (measured with an Audio Control analyzer), which was greatly tamed when the EQs were engaged to actually listen to the thing; but it was capable. And this, for some in the DB Drag competition is low, but I wasn't in it for just bass, I wanted clean music.

In fact, the Zapco C2K 9.0 (class D sub amp) had a power limiter so it was only allowed to draw so much before it started soft clipping. For a competition one time, we disabled it. I drove home that evening wondering what the heck happened to all my bass response. The stock alternator in the car couldn't keep up, in fact my headlights were dimming at 70 MPH on the highway and the car could barely keep the ignition going. I turned everything off, and then realized we forgot to disengage the power limiter. A new, beafier, alternator went in within weeks - problem solved, limiter removed, bass was even better than ever.

It was mean, and it imaged very well, IMO. I would get goose bumps listening to anything with substance, something no home system has done to me yet (alas). It could also rattle your teeth loose if I wanted it to.

Now, I'm not saying you couldn't acheive this and better in a home, you certainly could. What I'm saying is, I don't think I could do it with 10k, hell I don't think I'd get speakers and a sub for 10k that could come close to the sound quality. Not to mention come near delivering even 140 DB at any frequency in room. So...anything is do-able if you have the right mind-set, drive, desire, and knowledge. The guy that built my system had them all, and I sorely miss his creation.

When I drive, I'm Ian Gillan, Jon Lord, and Richie Blackmore all rolled into one. Even though I'm a bass player. ;)

How can you be? 'Lazy' has no vocals until about 3 minutes into the song,. :p

A friend and I did a 'quickie' 24 hour installation into a 1962 Nova for the second large car audio competition in Vancouver, about 1986 I think.

That was when the Technics 'CD Walkman' had that huge NiCad pack underneath it. We left the stock AM radio in the dash, and put the CD player in the glove compartment. In the trunk was a metal chassis with my custom made 12 db/octave 3 way electronic crossover that I built on breadboard, along with 3 Alphasonik amps. 125 watts X 2 for the two 15" EV woofers, 125 X 2 for the mids which consisted of 4 Philips 8" speakers... firing through the rear deck via three 6X 9" grilles. They were completely invisible, as were the woofers that were firing into the back seat. We had a smaller 40 watt a side Alphasonik for the 4 Philips dome tweeters.

WE had soft dome Philips mids in the doors, and two Philips dome tweets in the back deck, and two in the front air vent corners, wire tied to the underside of the vents.

So all you could see was the two Philips dome tweets in the back deck. The third (middle) 6X9 grille took the place of the rear defogger/blower that they used back in 1962. It was a complete sleeper car.

We entered into the '400 watt +' category. While everyone around us was blasting their deck, our car stayed off, and everyone ignored it.

THe local engineer from the rock radio station had an Audio Control spectrum analyzer that he measured frequency response and db level with.

When he got to our car, he scratched his head as to why we had entered into the 400w + category, and he told us to turn the system on. We told him to put on his hearing protectors, and he refused. We insisted that he put them on. He finally did. At the time the song of choice was 'Sledgehammer' by Peter Gabriel, and the tech almost had a bowel movement once the song kicked in past the soft intro. We hit 125 db, very respectable at the time, and a crowd of 100+ gathered around the car, insisting that we pop the trunk.

We finally did, and then noticed that the one woofer wire had fallen off during the drive. We managed to convince the tech to remeasure, and we hit 128 db.

They had some guy that played rap listen to the sound quality, and he put us into the top 3. Our db measurement hit the top 5 of cars tested.

We lost out with our poor install, but we never expected to place at all.

As for overall sound quality, the system had a pile of punch, the Philips speakers sounded great, but we also had a LOT of ignition noise. 24 hours later, we had the system back out of the car.

In my 08 Corvette Z06, I installed :

- Kenwood DNX8120 GPS/DVD/Stereo head unit w/ IPOD interface.
- Dynaudio 7" Component midrage/tweeters in front doors.
- Alpine 600Digital Amp
- JLAudo Subwoofer ib Stealth Box
- DynoMat in the doors.

Great Sound!

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r264/gfroman/VETT10copy.jpg

To a person seated in the middle of my back seat, yes, it would be imaged at the center of the windshield.

To persons seated elsewhere, near side bias would indeed distort the imaging. That's not to say that you can't enjoy listening in the car; I do all the time. As long as you can deal with the elevated background noise and near side bias--and the human brain is pretty adaptable at that--it can be very pleasurable, even if less than ideal.

In YOUR back seat yes. You obviously don't know much about real car audio, so I wouldn't expect you to know how to install one to image properly either.

Yup, I hear that this Bob Lee character is a real hack.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

What is this QSC company he speaks of? Never heard of it. :D

Yup, I hear that this Bob Lee character is a real hack.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

What is this QSC company he speaks of? Never heard of it. :D

PA amplifiers. Does that mean he has expertise in high end car audio?? (which he obviously doesn't) That makes a lot of sense.

No, I don't have "expertise" in "high end" car audio. I've always preferred performance more than an end, and as is often the case in audio, the best performance is usually neither one end nor the other.

No, I don't have "expertise" in "high end" car audio. I've always preferred performance more than an end, and as is often the case in audio, the best performance is usually neither one end nor the other.

mark eldridge's Nascar one of the best sounding cars in the world.

http://www.motormusicmag.com/uploads/images/Car_Club/car-club-eldridge/eldridge-nascar-exterior.jpg

You can use spray foam, and other sound deadening materials.
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That and other modifications are a problem if you want to keep the non-audio part of the car stock. I upgraded the system in a fairly pricey car and was limited by not wanting to alter the interior. Watching the interior of the car removed is, in itself, stressful.

Steve

I have been moving roughly the same car audio hardware from car to car (even an RV at one point).

Alpine ribbon tweeters (not sold in years), Dynaudio mids (front), Focal hex wire honeycomb mids (rear doors - where applicable), the two 10" woofers name escapes me (starts with a "W" and competed with Dynaudio at the time), Hifonics Zeus sub amp, some other Hifonics "God" name amp for mids and Hifonics Gemini amp for tweets. Hifonics adjustable Q 3 way electronic crossover, and currently a JVC DVD head unit (this seems to keep changing vehicle to vehicle). Digital audio are via a Rockford Fosgate car hard drive system.

Been through lots of variations, but the above what has stayed tried and true. The key has always been a solid sub cabinet with the correct volume for the speakers and lots of attention to wiring to avoid noise.

Full CarPC systems have been in the mix as well, including "OBD2" vehicle command and control through a custom software we developed called "TOBD2" connected via bluetooth serial connection from car to PC via custom hardware interface. When the CarPC has been incorporated, Digital audio gets run from the PC.

System is currently in my Jeep but alas needs a full day of attention. One of these days...

I spend more time in my car than in my Theater now a days, so maybe I'll prioritize that day :)

I know this is all available with high end stock systems, I'm talking a custom system that simply sounds good.

My main focus for car installs has always been sound quality, invisibility to prying eyes, and to make sure I don't take up any more of the limited space available than necessary. I've never understood installs that take up the entire trunk, making the car impractical for daily use, unless you actually compete and don't use the car as a daily driver. I retain stock grills on all speakers, mount any equipment under seats, or in the trunk so the only thing anyone would see if checking out my car is the aftermarket CD player. I can remove the face of that as well, and attach a blank cover plate that I made with ABS. Completely stealth.

Current system:

JVC head unit
Pioneer 9 band EQ
Soundstream 5 channel amp 45wx4, 180wx1
Infinity speakers (older models with silk dome tweeters) front and rear
Image Dynamics IDQ-10 DVC Subwoofer
Cliff Designs silk tweeters in dash to raise the image

Does it sound as good as my home system? Not a chance, but it still sounds better than any stock system I've heard, and all for around $1000. Retail is probably double that, but many pieces were bought as closeouts when new models were introduced. Some of the equipment, like the tweeters and amp have been transfered from car to car since the early 90's. I'm shopping for a new car now, and anything that will fit will be transferred into that one as well. I just can't see spending big bucks on car audio, with the inherent limitations of the listening environment.

Who here will agree that factory installed systems have improved tremendously during the past fifteen years. There is a big difference in the sound quality and system capabilities.

You guys and your kid's stuff :-)

Set the wayback machine...

I had a complete home system in my car, including an integrated amplifier run from a 12v/115V inverter and an Eico reel-to-reel tape deck, built from a kit, in the back seat. (I got pretty adept at threading tape while driving.) Speakers (I don't remember the brand) were mounted on the deck behind the rear window. A home-type FM tuner was connected to a small omnidirectional outdoor antenna whose mast was clamped to the rear bumper.

Of course, I was just a dumb college kid and the year was 1968... ;-)

You guys and your kid's stuff :-)

Set the wayback machine...

I had a complete home system in my car, including an integrated amplifier run from a 12v/115V inverter and an Eico reel-to-reel tape deck, built from a kit, in the back seat. (I got pretty adept at threading tape while driving.) Speakers (I don't remember the brand) were mounted on the deck behind the rear window. A home-type FM tuner was connected to a small omnidirectional outdoor antenna whose mast was clamped to the rear bumper.

Of course, I was just a dumb college kid and the year was 1968... ;-)

Before anyone laughs, trust me when I tell you that many people still think mobile systems like this have never been eclipsed.:rolleyes:

Who here will agree that factory installed systems have improved tremendously during the past fifteen years.
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Maybe the better the exhaust sound the cheaper the audio system. I am not that particular about car audio but I had to replace the system in my 575M; it was terrible.

Steve

Before anyone laughs, trust me when I tell you that many people still think mobile systems like this have never been eclipsed.:rolleyes:

I can beat that, but only slightly due to what happened....

IN grade 10, back in 1979 before the first Sony Walkman existed, I decided I wanted a stereo on my 10 speed. (sheesh,I"m dating myself right there!). I also decided that I wanted to remove the stereo, as it would get stolen if left on the bike at school.

So... I inherited a very small car stereo cassette deck from a buddy, I had to repair the bad solder joint on the PC board, and mounted that to one of those old 8 track deck quick removal mounting brackets that were used to mount an 8 track player under car dashboards. I inverted the bracket so that the part that mounted under the car dash was bolted to the top of the handlebars dead center, and the deck was mounted on top of the quick removal bracket. Radio Shack at the time carried some 3" surface mount speakers with massive magnets, and I bolted those to the top of the cassette deck.

As for power, that's what I was most proud of. After searching for a month, I found a bike light generator that put out 12 VAC instead of 6 VAC, and use a diode and capacitor to convert the AC to DC, and ran a wire to the deck. THe bike frame was ground. As long as I pedaled over about 6MPH,and didn't crank the stereo too loudly, I had a self contained bike-o-blaster.

I had it on the bike for months, until one fateful day. The high school was situated on the edge of a ravine, and the fastest way to my home was to cross the bridge at the bottom of the ravine. One day I got to the top, and looked down, and there were three guys hanging around on the bridge. Being a wimp, I didn't want a confrontation or to get the stereo stolen, so I decided to ride the long way around the school.

Behind the school, I made a left hand turn, the last thing I remember was seeing the front bumper of a 1976 Honda Civic, thinking 'oh shiiiiiittttttt'.. and then I woke up on the road with blood in my eye, and the bike bent in half.

I hit the Civic dead on, landed on the hood, and my head hit the top of the windshield. My head crumpled the roof and windshield, and last I heard, the repair bill to the car exceeded $1500. I had a concussion and 2 stitches, and the ambulance attendants said that it was the most damage to a car that they had seen by a body, where said body more or less walked away from the accident.

Worse, the guy that I hit had taken a sick day off of work from way out of town for a job interview in town, and was just picking his sister up from school when I came out of nowhere. Then he had to explain to his current boss why he was in Vancouver when he was supposed to be sick, now without transportation for a few days.

Anyways, that was my almost contribution to the Darwin awards. :)

On another semi off topic note, there was a guy that entered his mega 1970s American sedan in a car stereo competition. His back seat was taken out, and in its place was a 3/4" piece of plywood with 2 EV 15s, 2 8" mids and horn tweeters taken out of a couple of EV 1503 cabinets. He refused to open the trunk until the end of the competition. In it were two BGW 750 amps, bridged mono, all powered off a gas generator. He didn't come close to wining, but he sure took the prize for most insane installation.

And people bitch about drivers talking on cell phones. what they really needed to concentrate on were guys that threaded their reel to reels while driving. :D