Folks,

I spent some time playing with HCFR last night. I have a dip at 30% Gray where the Red bounces between 97-98%. The rest of the scale is pretty flat. I increased low end Red from 500 (factory) to 501, then 502, then 503 with no change. In fact, it almost seemed to be moving the other way. To check that, I increased low Red all the way to 510, and HCFR actually gave a reading of around 92%. Blue dropped as well. Is that how it's supposed to work? In other words, should I have been decreasing the low Red setting to increase the amount of low Red?

Thanks,

poormxdad

The control works backwards from what you expect - and it doesn't do much above 10% anyway so if you make a change large enough to see at 30% it could be royally messing up your 10% and perhaps 20% steps. Unless you have a freakin' fantastic meter, you're not going to get readings you can rely on at 20% or 10% anyway so most people using typical home/enthusiast meters and not pro-quality meters should probably just leave the "Low" controls alone. The % you have at any step is not particularly important. dE is what is important... if your software is not providing dE numbers for each step, you can download the calibraiton calculator from www.accupel.com (http://www.accupel.com) and manually enter your readings to see what the dE values are. Shoot for 4 or less for every step, 3 or less is even better. Either way you're at the threshold of human perception and the errors will be so small you won't be able to see them even if red is at 97% (though this might produce a dE higher than 3 or 4, but you'll never know until you see the dE numbers. So if 40% is at dE=1 and 30% is at dE=6, you could make a move with the High controls that moves 40% to dE=3 but brings 30% down to dE=3 and even though the error at 40% is higher, it will still be invisible while the formerly visible error at 30% is now made invisible.

Doug,

Thanks. My highest dE is only 1.9 at 20%. The picture is fantastic. I was messing around trying to see if I could tweak the color and tint to get the color triangles to line up better, but when I did that, the xy values moved noticeably. Makes sense, but I didn't think the picture was better.

Is there anything I can tweak to raise my gamma or better align the color triangles?

Thanks again,

poormxdad

I would leave the RGB low at the defaults, as your meter is not very accurate in that range. For that reason take those measurements with a grain of salt. These Kuros calibrate so easily and FLAT that if everything else looks OK the low end should be fine too.

You won't get any better than the results you posted. I calibrated a few 9G NE and all of them end up with a flat 2.1 gamma, thats just the way it is. Enjoy the picture.

One last thing you could do is calibrate Standard mode + PC:OFF to 65k using the 60hz table. That way you can choose this brighter mode for cable TV or sports and switch over to Movie + PC: Advanced for cinema viewing.

wrinklefree,

I'm running the ControlCAL 6020 profile, v.8. I don't have v.10.

poormxdad

wrinklefree,

I'm running the ControlCAL 6020 profile, v.8. I don't have v.10.

poormxdad

Contact Turbe and def get the .10 profile, that way you can at least copy the 60hz values to the 72hz modes for 24fps blu-ray.

It has been my experience that you can't just "copy" the 60Hz highs/lows to the 72Hz memory. 72Hz doesn't MEASURE the same as 60Hz on the TVs I've measured so 72Hz needs unique settings that won't be the same as the 60Hz settings.

You CAN get 72Hz calibrated, but copying 60Hz settings isn't the means to do it - you have to measure the grayscale with a 24p source (not in service menu mode), decide what corrections are needed for 72Hz mode, enter service menu mode, make the slider adjustments you want (bearing in mind that the sliders will all be set to "500" each time you enter 72Hz service mode), follow ControlCAL instructions to exit. Remeasure the 72Hz grayscale using a 24p source, decide if more adjustments are necessary... if so, re-enter 72Hz service menu mode, make additional adjustments... repeat as many times as necessary to get the 72Hz memory accurate.

Doug,

That was how I did my initial calibration. When I switched to the SM, the picture became noticeably redder, so I took all my measurements outside the SM.

However, would my 60Hz DIY calibration values be a good starting point for the 72Hz calibration? In other words, would I be tweaking, or should I start from scratch with a new calibration?

Thanks,

poormxdad

it has been my experience that you can't just "copy" the 60hz highs/lows to the 72hz memory. 72hz doesn't measure the same as 60hz on the tvs i've measured so 72hz needs unique settings that won't be the same as the 60hz settings.

You can get 72hz calibrated, but copying 60hz settings isn't the means to do it - you have to measure the grayscale with a 24p source (not in service menu mode), decide what corrections are needed for 72hz mode, enter service menu mode, make the slider adjustments you want (bearing in mind that the sliders will all be set to "500" each time you enter 72hz service mode), follow controlcal instructions to exit. Remeasure the 72hz grayscale using a 24p source, decide if more adjustments are necessary... If so, re-enter 72hz service menu mode, make additional adjustments... Repeat as many times as necessary to get the 72hz memory accurate.
+1

It has been my experience that you can't just "copy" the 60Hz highs/lows to the 72Hz memory. 72Hz doesn't MEASURE the same as 60Hz on the TVs I've measured so 72Hz needs unique settings that won't be the same as the 60Hz settings.

You CAN get 72Hz calibrated, but copying 60Hz settings isn't the means to do it - you have to measure the grayscale with a 24p source (not in service menu mode), decide what corrections are needed for 72Hz mode, enter service menu mode, make the slider adjustments you want (bearing in mind that the sliders will all be set to "500" each time you enter 72Hz service mode), follow ControlCAL instructions to exit. Remeasure the 72Hz grayscale using a 24p source, decide if more adjustments are necessary... if so, re-enter 72Hz service menu mode, make additional adjustments... repeat as many times as necessary to get the 72Hz memory accurate.

Yeah I've noticed copying the 60hz settings into the 72hz table gets you close, but a few adjustments are needed to make it perfect. I've calibrated 2 NE and both times it was just a matter of 1-2 clicks of RH or BH.

Hi guys, I thought I would post up my Calibration Report. The Pio 5020 was done by Michael Chen. Here are the results. However he could only seem to get the settings to stick under the "Film" = Off Setting or Film = "Smooth" settings. He couldnt seem to lock in the numbers under the Advance film setting. He said he will get back to me on that one. If anyone has any idea why please chime in.

Hun, I'm on it with Michael.. :)

sounds great, interested to see what was causing the "non saving" of the settings.

Well Michael Chen came back to my house and fixed up teh confusion as promised! Really please to deal with Michael and recommend him to all.

Well Michael Chen came back to my house and fixed up teh confusion as promised! Really please to deal with Michael and recommend him to all.

What was the problem?

the problem was stated in my first post above.

the problem was stated in my first post above.

Right, what I actually meant was: What was the solution for not being able to save into the 72hz tables?

Yeah I've noticed copying the 60hz settings into the 72hz table gets you close, but a few adjustments are needed to make it perfect. I've calibrated 2 NE and both times it was just a matter of 1-2 clicks of RH or BH.

I'm not finding that to be the case at all. I am finding that the uncalibrated 72Hz mode measures over 7000K while the uncalibrated 60Hz measures around 6200K and calibrated 60Hz measures almost exactly 6500K. So for me, 72Hz cal is a like a completely different calibration.

I'm not finding that to be the case at all. I am finding that the uncalibrated 72Hz mode measures over 7000K while the uncalibrated 60Hz measures around 6200K and calibrated 60Hz measures almost exactly 6500K. So for me, 72Hz cal is a like a completely different calibration.Are you doing these measurements while in the SM? If so, are you forcing the panel into Movie mode while you setup the 72VS table's RGB controls? If not, your 72VS table readings are based off of the SM default "Factory" video mode.

Apparently Michael had to set the TV to 1080i mode for the information to be saved correctly. however, he states that those saved settings still will be there in 1080p mode.

Are you doing these measurements while in the SM? If so, are you forcing the panel into Movie mode while you setup the 72VS table's RGB controls? If not, your 72VS table readings are based off of the SM default "Factory" video mode.


I don't measure anything while in service menu mode. I use the ControlCAL sliders to display the white pattern, set movie mode, set 72Hz mode, set Advance mode, etc. - I adjust the sliders as the non-service menu measurements suggest, use Send send button for each slider, prss Save, and exit the service menu per the ControlCAL instructions.

(After SAVING the changes you made in the service menu, do you REALLY have to turn off power with the switch on back which forces you to wait through the TV searching the entire analog channel tuner range and the entire digital channel tuner range before you make measurements again? Using the "Off" button in ControlCAL won't work? I never tried skipping the back-panel Off control step as I didn't want to take a chance with a customer panel - if I had one at home, I'd have tried that a long time ago.)

To get my "before calibration" measurements for 72Hz, (not in service menu mode) in the user menu I select Movie mode, check that the right color temperature option is selected, put my signal generator in 1080p/24Hz mode, and set Pure Cinema to Advance - that's when I measure 7000K+. I do that after 60Hz mode is already calibrated with P.C. Off and the signal generator in 1080p/60 mode with the grayscale xy coordinates almost perfect at dE=2 or less. zAfter using ControlCAL to make 72Hz adjustments, I measure 72Hz mode the same way as above after exiting ControlCAL & service mode and waiting for the TV to go through finding all the channels.

Folks,

I started this thread about Low end RGB numbers, but we talked about some other stuff--the v0.10 profile and calibrating PC:Advance--so I thought I'd follow up here.

I'm home sick and decided to play with the 72Hz calibration. I only did gray scale for Movie mode with PC set to Advance. I used HD DVE through a PS3, into an Onkyo 805 via HDMI, and HDMI to the panel for this morning's festivities. My PS3 indicated it was pumping out 1080i with the AVS 709 disk, so I put the HD DVE disk back in. I'll have to check that again when I have more time.

I put my Movie mode/PC:Off numbers in first (earlier in the week) and watched some of The Fifth Element. It really looked great. I'm not sure, however, what I'm really doing with the 5020. Set to Movie, in both PC modes--Off and Advance--the upper right corner of the screen tells me I'm in 1080p, 36 bit when watching a BD.

There is a difference in the calibration numbers, however.

My earlier calibration in Movie mode with PC:Off
R 446
G 512
B 518

This morning's results (attached) in Movie Mode with PC: Advance
R 452
G 507
B 520

At the start, Green read higher in HCFR than the PC:Off calibration, about 102%, with Red and Blue below 100%, measuring outside of the SM. I started bringing Red and Blue up slowly, then decided to drop Green a bit. As I tweaked the 72Hz numbers with the v0.10 profile using Turbe's instructions, each time HCFR showed the incremental changes as I would have expected. Yeehah!

I could use some help with theory here. Should I have continued to increase Red and Blue and left Green alone instead?

The other thing I noticed, Red drops off at the lower percentages of gray a little more than it did with the PC:Off calibration. I assume I can add Low Red with the new profile. I know my meter (i1 Display 2) isn't known to be great down low, but this one seems very consistent. My understanding is I go the other way--down (lower numbers) from the factory setting of 500 to increase the low readings.

I went back into v0.08 and checked for my earlier calibration numbers. They were still there. I do plan to take wrinklefree's advice and calibrate Standard mode with PC: Off. However, I would like to know how to confirm when I'm in 72Hz. I only spent about an hour with it this morning, than ran out of darkness.

Thanks much for all the great info.

poormxdad