An old release but it must be done. :)

The Image Entertainment DVD was released in 1997. Judging from artifacts on lettering and the fact that it opens with the Hemdale Home Video logo, I'm guessing it uses the laserdisc master. It's non-anamorphic so I cropped 60 pixels each from the top and bottom to make comparison easier.

MGM made a new film-to-video transfer for their 2001 Special Edition DVD. The European disc features some different color timings than the US disc, and the opening scenes are from a different transfer without the burnt-in texts. (They're player-generated in order to accommodate the different language options.)

Later, Europe got an "Ultimate Edition" DVD based on the same European SE master but with the burnt-in opening restored using the other transfer. Unfortunately this release also added automatic dirt/scratch removal, with associated artifacts throughout.

The Blu-ray uses the exact same master as the US Special Edition DVD released in 2001, just without the vertical stretch and SD downscale.

Now for my major complaint: every single one of these releases uses temporal DNR, in varying degrees. This is tough to demonstrate with screencaps but I did find one part of the movie that displays it in a way that's obvious with stills.

If you want your experience ruined as much as mine, see image set #3 below. ;) The "white" sky background seems to play hell with the filters used. Look at the power lines and lamp post. The downward camera movement coupled with the temporal filter causes duplication of these objects! If you watch those parts of the scene during playback you can actually see them accordion out and then slowly fade away...

The strength of the filter used on the EU discs is considerably lower than that used on MGM's US discs. The strongest DNR is actually on the Image DVD, but it doesn't have the duplication issue to the same degree.

Summary rant over. :)

..... Image DVD .......... vs MGM UE DVD (EU) vs MGM SE DVD (EU) vs MGM SE DVD (US) vs Blu-ray
#1: http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3585/00134a.th.png (http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3585/00134a.png)http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2672/00134b.th.png (http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2672/00134b.png)http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/5263/00134c.th.png (http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/5263/00134c.png)http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7738/00134d.th.png (http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7738/00134d.png)http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/2384/00134e.th.png (http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/2384/00134e.png)
#2: http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/5051/00617a.th.png (http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/5051/00617a.png)http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4308/00617b.th.png (http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4308/00617b.png)http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8171/00617c.th.png (http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8171/00617c.png)http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5669/00617d.th.png (http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5669/00617d.png)http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6631/00617e.th.png (http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6631/00617e.png)
#3: http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/2139/01235a.th.png (http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/2139/01235a.png)http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3584/01235b.th.png (http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3584/01235b.png)http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/946/01235c.th.png (http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/946/01235c.png)http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8106/01235d.th.png (http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8106/01235d.png)http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3404/01235e.th.png (http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3404/01235e.png)
#4: http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/8605/01717a.th.png (http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/8605/01717a.png)http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3607/01717b.th.png (http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3607/01717b.png)http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2308/01717c.th.png (http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2308/01717c.png)http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7167/01717d.th.png (http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7167/01717d.png)http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/6913/01717e.th.png (http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/6913/01717e.png)
#5: http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/3280/02639a.th.png (http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/3280/02639a.png)http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/4871/02639b.th.png (http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/4871/02639b.png)http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2625/02639c.th.png (http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2625/02639c.png)http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3118/02639d.th.png (http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3118/02639d.png)http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/674/02639e.th.png (http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/674/02639e.png)
#6: http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/7364/05939a.th.png (http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/7364/05939a.png)http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/2798/05939b.th.png (http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/2798/05939b.png)http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7103/05939c.th.png (http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7103/05939c.png)http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3816/05939d.th.png (http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3816/05939d.png)http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/2007/05939e.th.png (http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/2007/05939e.png)
#7: http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8517/10249a.th.png (http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8517/10249a.png)http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9650/10249b.th.png (http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9650/10249b.png)http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/3536/10249c.th.png (http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/3536/10249c.png)http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/51/10249d.th.png (http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/51/10249d.png)http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8742/10249e.th.png (http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8742/10249e.png)
#8: http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/89/13742a.th.png (http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/89/13742a.png)http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5616/13742b.th.png (http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5616/13742b.png)http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6019/13742c.th.png (http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6019/13742c.png)http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2486/13742d.th.png (http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2486/13742d.png)http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2919/13742e.th.png (http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2919/13742e.png)
#9: http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3949/14202a.th.png (http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3949/14202a.png)http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1825/14202b.th.png (http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1825/14202b.png)http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/6674/14202c.th.png (http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/6674/14202c.png)http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3218/14202d.th.png (http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3218/14202d.png)http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3571/14202e.th.png (http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3571/14202e.png)

Here's some comparisons of the effects of the DNR (and MPEG-2 compression) on the Blu-ray.

Since there's no DNR-free high definition version, I had to choose a DVD version to compare to. The strange compression of the European SE disc, with even I-frames containing smoothed-out blocks, rules that one out.

So I used I-frames from the European UE DVD, the one with scratch removal artifacts galore (try to ignore those). I cropped, scaled, and repositioned it to match the Blu-ray as best I could. Note that these are very much cherry-picked to show the best of the DVD and Blu-ray frames where detail loss is obvious.

DNR comparison mouseovers here (http://comparescreenshots.slicx.com/comparison/14283/)
(same as the images below)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/9757/00940a.th.png (http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/9757/00940a.png)http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/3715/00940b.th.png (http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/3715/00940b.png) http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2443/01335a.th.png (http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2443/01335a.png)http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/1205/01335b.th.png (http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/1205/01335b.png) http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/6175/02826a.th.png (http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/6175/02826a.png)http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/9206/02826b.th.png (http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/9206/02826b.png) http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3012/02831a.th.png (http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3012/02831a.png)http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/8935/02831b.th.png (http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/8935/02831b.png) http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/1160/02845a.th.png (http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/1160/02845a.png)http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1213/02845b.th.png (http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1213/02845b.png)
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8274/02903a.th.png (http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8274/02903a.png)http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5449/02903b.th.png (http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5449/02903b.png) http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1057/02915a.th.png (http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1057/02915a.png)http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6665/02915b.th.png (http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6665/02915b.png) http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8355/02919a.th.png (http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8355/02919a.png)http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6576/02919b.th.png (http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6576/02919b.png) http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9872/02920a.th.png (http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9872/02920a.png)http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/2466/02920b.th.png (http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/2466/02920b.png) http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/8866/02921a.th.png (http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/8866/02921a.png)http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2185/02921b.th.png (http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2185/02921b.png)

And here's a more esoteric comparison. Temporal bleeding at a scene change. It's basically imperceptible on the European DVDs. On the US discs you can see how the outlines of the pictures, bookshelf, and door bleed into neighboring frames then fade away.

MGM UE DVD (EU)
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/3430/02312b1.th.png (http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/3430/02312b1.png)http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5716/02312b2.th.png (http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5716/02312b2.png)http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7678/02312b3.th.png (http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7678/02312b3.png)http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/6831/02312b4.th.png (http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/6831/02312b4.png)http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9084/02312b5.th.png (http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9084/02312b5.png)

MGM SE DVD (EU)
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8841/02312c1.th.png (http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8841/02312c1.png)http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/2987/02312c2.th.png (http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/2987/02312c2.png)http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/980/02312c3.th.png (http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/980/02312c3.png)http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3713/02312c4.th.png (http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3713/02312c4.png)http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1539/02312c5.th.png (http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1539/02312c5.png)

MGM SE DVD (US)
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1973/02312d1.th.png (http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1973/02312d1.png)http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5707/02312d2.th.png (http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5707/02312d2.png)http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8168/02312d3.th.png (http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8168/02312d3.png)http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5710/02312d4.th.png (http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5710/02312d4.png)http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7825/02312d5.th.png (http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7825/02312d5.png)

Blu-ray
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4451/02312e1.th.png (http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4451/02312e1.png)http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4144/02312e2.th.png (http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4144/02312e2.png)http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/1160/02312e3.th.png (http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/1160/02312e3.png)http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1749/02312e4.th.png (http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1749/02312e4.png)http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3223/02312e5.th.png (http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3223/02312e5.png)

Bear with me if you think I've gone overboard on this one. ;)

Opening these in Firefox 3.5 and using your mouse wheel to scroll through them works well.

Arnold's hair leaving duplicate trails behind...

Blu-ray
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2333/hair1w.th.png (http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2333/hair1w.png)http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2746/hair2w.th.png (http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2746/hair2w.png)http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2595/hair3.th.png (http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2595/hair3.png)http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1769/hair4.th.png (http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1769/hair4.png)http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7052/hair5.th.png (http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7052/hair5.png)http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1836/hair6.th.png (http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1836/hair6.png)http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2262/hair7.th.png (http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2262/hair7.png)http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2522/hair8.th.png (http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2522/hair8.png)http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3117/hair9.th.png (http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3117/hair9.png)

Not to mention the problem with the audio. The original mono sound mix is not included on the Blu-ray. Instead replaced with a gimmicky surround remix with completely different sound effects at parts.

Really appreciate your enthusiasm msgohan. If the Studios take a dose of this enthusiasm I am sure we won't be ranting. Are we are asking too much out of these Studios ? I don't think so, at least, for deserving titles like Terminator.

Makes me glad I haven't "upgraded" on this title yet. Hardly any benefit can be appreciated. This one needs a remaster.

Van Ling mentioned a remaster is coming at some point.

That sound remix is ridiculous. The Blu-Ray not having it means I have not upgraded and will not upgrade until that problem is solved.

By the way, in looking at those screen caps this has to be a case of the BD showing so little improvement because of excessive DNR that it isn't worth upgrading. The DVD was really quite good for its time and still holds up today. They went all out to make sure the video was top notch.

I've heard of this remaster as well, and although it's not quite anywhere near coming out anytime too soon, the difference between the DVD and Blu-ray really look to be negligible. I'll keep what I've got for now.

Does the 2001 US MGM SE DVD have the original mono track?

Both US DVDs feature the original mono, as a 192kbps DD2.0 track.

Nice. I think I'm going to pick up the DVD. LOL.

So the BD looks like a HDNet broadcast.

The DVD's 192k bps track is shrill and empty, so even though it is there, it's a shell of what the PCM track on all the laserdiscs sounds like.

Basically, there has yet to be a release that satisfies me on DVD or Blu-Ray. Cameron needs to step in here and personally ensure this one gets a proper release.

Well, if I had to choose for the image only I'd still be buying the blu-ray. However slight the upgrade, with the screenshots full size I do like the BD best of all. In fact with the low pricing at the moment for the BD I might buy it as a temporary add-on to my US SE dvd (what a dreadful stretch by the way).

I want to break the kneecaps of all involved with that ridiculous sound remix.

I have not heard the remix, but I am curious as to what the offensive parts are. I know that they replaced the sound made by the gun when the T-800 confronts the first Sarah, but what else is problematic?

Everything. The entire soundtrack has been redone, replaced, reworked. Nothing sounds the same. In addition, numerous music pieces are actually missing because the composer redid the entire score on modern equipment, but forgot to do some of the music.

It's a disaster. The worst remix ever done in Hollywood because it just throws out the original with no respect for it whatsoever.

The DVD's 192k bps track is shrill and empty, so even though it is there, it's a shell of what the PCM track on all the laserdiscs sounds like.

Basically, there has yet to be a release that satisfies me on DVD or Blu-Ray. Cameron needs to step in here and personally ensure this one gets a proper release.

Hrmmm, think I'll try to find the laserdisc, too :D

I still have the Image DVD for the original non-split 1.0 track.

Everything. The entire soundtrack has been redone, replaced, reworked. Nothing sounds the same. In addition, numerous music pieces are actually missing because the composer redid the entire score on modern equipment, but forgot to do some of the music.

And who is that guy again?:rolleyes::rolleyes: Nice job Brad... This is beyond me, I mean the guy scores Terminator, makes a new version, and forgets to do some of it?!?!?! He could be forgiven if it was for, I don't know, some random porn sapphire series update (I'd be curious to check EE and DNR on that!;))! But... Terminator!!:eek:hmmm...:rolleyes:

The DVD's 192k bps track is shrill and empty, so even though it is there, it's a shell of what the PCM track on all the laserdiscs sounds like.

Basically, there has yet to be a release that satisfies me on DVD or Blu-Ray. Cameron needs to step in here and personally ensure this one gets a proper release.

PCM tracks from laserdiscs often sound better. I don't know why they don't use them more often on Blu-rays.

Hmmm, think I'll try to find the laserdisc, too :D

I ended up getting rid of the (2001) DVD and keeping the LD: at least I have the original mono soundtrack. The extras were nice (kept a copy of those), but this is one of those movies (like RoboCop) I still like to watch on LaserDisc.

This was one of the first bluray titles I bought at the heavily bungled launch of the format. I had the 2001 special edition at the time and in comparing the 2 the difference was negligeble and this actually was one of the better looking blurays at launch.

excellent job on all those comprehensively done comparisons of yours :P

I ended up getting rid of the (2001) DVD and keeping the LD: at least I have the original mono soundtrack. The extras were nice (kept a copy of those), but this is one of those movies (like RoboCop) I still like to watch on LaserDisc.

I have a laserdisc copy on the way now :D

Has anyone ripped the fabled PCM mono track?

dvd producer van ling is working on a new special edition bluray of terminator 1. it suppose to come out next year sometime. lowery is doing the remastering of the movie.. they have done other movies too. I have the bluray and I thought it was fine.

Jacob

dvd producer van ling is working on a new special edition bluray of terminator 1. it suppose to come out next year sometime. lowery is doing the remastering of the movie.. they have done other movies too. I have the bluray and I thought it was fine.

Jacob

Didnt they do T2 Skynet edition aswell?

Didnt they do T2 Skynet edition aswell?

Even if they did, I'm sure T1 will still look a LOT better than the previous release.

he also did the t2:skynet edition.

THX did T2 (http://www.thx.com/t2/).

THX did T2 (http://www.thx.com/t2/).

Yes, but sometimes for the studios a remaster is just reusing the old master with some filtering.

I hoping they do a rescan for this new master.

Thank you for this great comparison msgohan. Too bad we can't say the same about the disc itself.

The Image/Hemdale DVD was my very first DVD title, way back in 1997 and the Sony BD was also among my first BD purchases.

Does anybody know how will be handling the next US realease, Sony or MGM?

Basded on the way Sony has been treating most of their catalog releases now, I really wish they would have a chance at it again.

Thank you for this great comparison msgohan. Too bad we can't say the same about the disc itself.

The Image/Hemdale DVD was my very first DVD title, way back in 1997 and the Sony BD was also among my first BD purchases.

Does anybody know how will be handling the next US realease, Sony or MGM?

Basded on the way Sony has been treating most of their catalog releases now, I really wish they would have a chance at it again.

It'll be MGM/Fox, with a new master from Lowry Digital.

This disc has been terminated!
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/11/terminator.html
Let's hope the replacement gets it right!
Original mono included in LPCM.

Pretty funny review by Bracke there.

This disc has been terminated!
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/11/terminator.html
Let's hope the replacement gets it right!
Original mono included in LPCM.

I think it was discontinued because Fox ended up with the rights and reissued it with a slipcover to coincide with the theatrical release of Terminator: Salvation.

The new edition is expected in 2010 for when the new master is ready and cast/crew members are available to contribute. Van Ling plans on putting the mono track on it when it happens.

Let's just hope that detail erasing DNR doesn't sneak in there (ie T2 Skynet Edition).

That review is a joke. What a load of crap.

Excerpt from review:
I'm not sure if Sony has made a new high-def master for 'The Terminator' or what, but the film looks more stable, sharper and smoother than I've ever seen it. Again presented in 1.85:1 and encoded at 1080p, the most noticeable improvement with this new transfer is how clean it looks. Sony must have used some extensive noise reduction technology on this one, because scenes that were marred by excessive film grain on the previous DVD (such as the Tech-Noir attack sequence) are now much cleaner.

So does that mean Cameron actually has time to supervise a new transfer, or will it be "remastered"?

So does that mean Cameron actually has time to supervise a new transfer, or will it be "remastered"?

They dont need Camerons approval for a new Terminator transfer. He wasnt that big in Hollywood at the time.

Let's just hope that detail erasing DNR doesn't sneak in there (ie T2 Skynet Edition). Well Lowry DNRs everything, but it's probably the least offensive form of DNR available.

Well Lowry DNRs everything, but it's probably the least offensive form of DNR available.

It depends on if they remaster from the orginal film elements or if they just do some cleanup of a previous digital master.

If Cameron wanted to step in, he could. However, the fact that Lowry is doing a restoration is a good signal that we will get something better soon. Most likely they will show it to Cameron and ask for guidance. They do tend to do that.

Now if Lowry is just cleaning up an old transfer, well, it ain't so exciting. Maybe someone can get clarification from Van Ling. Most likely they would at least strike a new print and go from there. That is something they normally want to do at the minimum.

I've been holding off buying The Terminator on Blu-ray just for all the reasons stated in this thread. I remember when I first bought my LaserDisc copy of the film in the late '80s--it was such a revelation compared to VHS. I really hope next year's Blu-ray edition will be an equivalent revelation compared to the SE DVD.

Not seeing any difference here as well.
I usually check the PQ thread when buying a movie to see where it ranks. Anything below gold (I have a few silver) I don't buy.

The gain in detail on the BD is ruined by the softening of the massive DNR job. Not to mention the strange artifacts it adds to the picture at times.

I've been wondering why my copy of "The Terminator" on DVD has some craptastic sound effects in it. Arnold's .45 longlside has some pathetic "pew-pew" sound, instead of the Dirty-Harry .44 Magnum blast. And Kyle Reese's 12 guage shotgun makes a very unsatisfying "thud" sound instead of a nasty, Terminator pounding "boom." Why did they ruin the sound on this?

And the T2 Blu-Ray was pretty disappointing too. No extras at all, and the PQ is barely better than the DVD. What a waste. I hope the "Skynet Addition" improves T2.

It's a shame that two of my favorite movies of all time have such poor HD representation.

Hrm... do T1 and T2 deserve frame-by-frame restorations?

The film prints seem to be in good shape so that shouldn't be necessary. Just an unmolested transfer would be enough for me.

Pretty funny review by Bracke there.

That Bracke dude is an odd reviewer, he has the tendency to highly overgrade certain movies, just look at American warewolf in London!!

I would say the HD DVD score is more on par with the actuall High def quality on hand!!:rolleyes:

The new remaster is said to be done at 4K (unless I'm mistaken). It's safe to assume T1 will look better than it ever did. I only hope the mono mix track is PCM or loosless. I agree the remix missed the mark on way too many things (musical, gunshots, sound effects missing etc). I hope they redo the 5.1 mix fixing the errors.

PCM tracks from laserdiscs often sound better. I don't know why they don't use them more often on Blu-rays.

In this case it would make sense, but many newer films had the "mixed down" 2 ch PCM on LD which may not be representative of the original MCH mix.

dvd producer van ling is working on a new special edition bluray of terminator 1. it suppose to come out next year sometime. lowery is doing the remastering of the movie.. they have done other movies too. I have the bluray and I thought it was fine.

Jacob
Ling also produced the MGM SE that everybody loves to hate here.
Gary Rydstrom did the sound design and restoration on that, probably at Skywalker ranch where he worked at the time. I have a feeling that Matt Stevens won't be on a visitor list anytime soon. :D

Thanks. I love these comparisons.

I have a feeling that Matt Stevens won't be on a visitor list anytime soon. :D

What no love fore me?! :eek:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8374/pacino.jpg

Could you guys please advise which one is better:

tem Description Price Quantity Total

The Terminator
The Terminator (1984) - Blu-ray Disc
(Lenticular Edition)
20th Century Fox Home Entertainment

Cover art looks different, how abt transfer.:confused:

If you believe internet hearsay, there's a new 4K master in the works. I'd wait for that release.

Have you gone to the store and looked at the lenticular version without the slipcover?

Without the Slipcover the case says Sony.:p Seriously. The slip is the only difference.

Have you gone to the store and looked at the lenticular version without the slipcover?

Without the Slipcover the case says Sony.:p Seriously. The slip is the only difference.

:eek:what a gimmick lol. why did they do that

:eek:what a gimmick lol. why did they do that

They just added a slipcover to make it stand out on shelves and get some of the Terminator: Salvation attention back during the summer. It's not a new edition of the film.

Little if any improvement over DVD (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1179159\) and no mono audio. Wait for the remaster.

I never would have thought the (original) mono audio soundtrack on the LD would still be in demand. I never liked the remastered 5.1 version on the original DVD (since sold).

Could you guys please advise which one is better:

tem Description Price Quantity Total

The Terminator
The Terminator (1984) - Blu-ray Disc
(Lenticular Edition)
20th Century Fox Home Entertainment

Cover art looks different, how abt transfer.:confused:

These are all the exact same disc. MGM switched distributors from Sony to Fox. Fox reissued the disc in new packaging. Otherwise, it's identical.

From Van Ling:

"I've kind of been put on hold on working on the "Terminator" Blu-ray for over a year now, and as far as I can tell, "Terminator" will [remain] in limbo for the foreseeable future, most likely due to the fact that MGM (which owns the rights to "The Terminator") has been sorting out its financial/corporate issues... as you may know, they have been dealing with bankruptcy and this has affected the James Bond and The Hobbit films as well.
So the future is not set..."


http://www.jamescamerononline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&p=21955#p21955

No suprise, but sad none the less

Dang. What's funny/sad to me about the Terminator on Blu-ray is that it was the original Terminator LaserDisc that convinced me to get an LD player of my own. I still remember how amazingly colorful and realistic the cop car lights looked when watching my friend's LD compared to my VHS. We still don't have a Terminator Blu-ray worthy of the format, and it seems it may be quite a bit longer until we do.

Now we've come full circle in 20+ years, wanting to get LD-quality original sound mix on a Blu-ray. Just funny.

Can someone please buy MGM, this is getting silly

The Mpeg2 transfer is beautiful- the sound while "Awesome" is not the actual soundtrack.

Dang... Now we've come full circle in 20+ years, wanting to get LD-quality original sound mix on a Blu-ray. Just funny.
We don't have LD-quality audio on the Blu; just sadd!

can someone please buy mgm, this is getting silly

+1

Grabbed the trailer off the Carrie BD since the Terminator BD has none. They threw a filter on it to lessen the black specks but I thought it still made a worthwhile comparison.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8262/00408a.th.png (http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8262/00408a.png)http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8433/00408b.th.png (http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8433/00408b.png)
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/4431/01904a.th.png (http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/4431/01904a.png)http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/7986/01904b.th.png (http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/7986/01904b.png)
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/8453/02911a.th.png (http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/8453/02911a.png)http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/2527/02911b.th.png (http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/2527/02911b.png)
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7782/03514a.th.png (http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7782/03514a.png)http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/897/03514b.th.png (http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/897/03514b.png)
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7919/03718a.th.png (http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7919/03718a.png)http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6020/03718b.th.png (http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6020/03718b.png)

Not wasting my money on this sorry excuse for a Blu-ray. I'll gladly wait for a remaster.

Ok, I have a few questions for you experts here:

1.) Which version of The Terminator on laser disc (LD) had the best picture and best sound?

2.) Can the PCM audio track be ripped from the laser disc?

3.) Can this original mono PCM sound rip from the laser disc be combined with the Blu-Ray's video? I have the Blu-Ray version, if this can be done, can one of you LD owners rip this PCM track? We can combine the two and have the best of both world. I'm willing to rip and provide the Blu-Ray's video.

Ok, I have a few questions for you experts here:

1.) Which version of The Terminator on laser disc (LD) had the best picture and best sound?

2.) Can the PCM audio track be ripped from the laser disc?

3.) Can this original mono PCM sound rip from the laser disc be combined with the Blu-Ray's video? I have the Blu-Ray version, if this can be done, can one of you LD owners rip this PCM track? We can combine the two and have the best of both world. I'm willing to rip and provide the Blu-Ray's video.

1) THX, though honestly the one prior to that is so close IMO it's negligable.

2) I've never done it myself but I don't see why not.

3) I believe this has been done before. I would be interested in a combination of the two. I own the Blu and the THX LD.


I'll say that the current BD does have better PQ than the MGM DVD, though you probably wouldn't notice it unless you A/B compared them.

Does anyone know how to import the raw data from laser disc to computer?

Does anyone know how to import the raw data from laser disc to computer?

Laserdisc video is analog, so it's not something you can "rip". As for the PCM audio, I'm not aware of any way to extract it. I think you'd have to record it in real time, and edit the side break out.

Yeah, if you play it back and your LD player has an SPDIF output you can record the PCM data into a computer with the appropriate inputs.

I bought a bracket for my Gigabyte motherboard with coax and optical inputs. No LD for me but I have recorded 2-channel PCM from other sources fine. Dolby is another story..

Still, that sounds like an awful lot of work when the current Blu-ray doesn't even look that nice.

I'll just stick with playing the laserdisc until a proper Blu-ray comes out.

The text is so much clearer on the trailer that it's depressing. The compression is worse, but it was just there as marketing fluff anyway.

"Patching" audio tracks into a ripped BD with freeware isn't too hard. Synching the 44.1kHz PCM track? Now that's some time-consuming tedium.

Honestly, I'm thinking of selling this POS and picking up the DVD at a loss. (I got it in a cheap two-pack with Predator, anyway.) I'd rather have more extras and a compressed mono track than the barely-better transfer the BD has to offer.

Not sure about other programs but TSMuxeR won't accept 44.1khz LPCM tracks, they have to be 48 (or 96 or 192).

If done properly, would resampling a 44.1khz track to 48khz have any negative effects? Would things like Dolby Surround encoding still be intact?

The Terminator happens to be my absolute all time favorite film. What they did with the soundtrack on the special edition DVD's and Blu-Ray makes me more upset than just about anything else I can think of.

Anyone willing to record and send me the PCM soundtrack from the laser disc? I will attempt to either merge it with the special edition DVD, or with the Blu-Ray and make sure to make everyone a copy who's interested :) The only cost will be the disc itself and shipping.

What's wrong with the DD2.0 mono of the DVD that the laserdisc LPCM is required?

The problem with the laserdisc LPCM is that it is encoded as 44.1kHz (same as CD), so conversion would be required for Bluray (I think), meaning possibly some loss or artifacting.

It is possible to record the laserdisc LPCM audio as analogue and digitise it on-the-fly to 48kHz LPCM, but it means that it goes through 2 stages of decoding and encoding before arriving at the digital data and also possibly some loss.

Hopefully one day a decent Bluray will be released with all extras, but it's real disappointing that the studios treat the consumer with such contempt for this franchise so far.

I have Sony Vegas Pro 9 and Sony Sound Forge 9. These are the programs that I will attempt to use. If anyone is familiar with these programs and know how to work with them efficiently, I will send them to you so you can properly synch the audio.

Hasn't Van Ling already confirmed that there's a new Terminator Blu-Ray in the works; that they've had Lowry working on it and that the old mono mix may end up on it?

Hasn't Van Ling already confirmed that there's a new Terminator Blu-Ray in the works; that they've had Lowry working on it and that the old mono mix may end up on it?

There was but MGM ran out of money

Well that's utterly disappointing.

Not sure about other programs but TSMuxeR won't accept 44.1khz LPCM tracks, they have to be 48 (or 96 or 192).

If done properly, would resampling a 44.1khz track to 48khz have any negative effects? Would things like Dolby Surround encoding still be intact?

Answering my own question here:

At least for me, Dolby Surround is not intact after copying an LD PCM 2.0 track via digital coax and then resampling to 48khz (using Soundforge 6). I got full surround when playing the original LD with Dolby Prologic IIx, but nothing out of the center or surrounds when playing the copied track.

edit: this turned out to be a problem with the firmware of my playback device (the Popcorn Hour A-200) which caused LPCM/FLAC 2.0 tracks in mkv files and ts files to be output as 7.1 with all channels other than L/R silent, rendering my amp unable to properly apply Prologic decoding. So 48kHz PCM from LDs should still have the Prologic information unless there's some other problem I haven't noticed.

Answering my own question here:

At least for me, Dolby Surround is not intact after copying an LD PCM 2.0 track via digital coax and then resampling to 48khz (using Soundforge 6). I got full surround when playing the original LD with Dolby Prologic IIx, but nothing out of the center or surrounds when playing the copied track.

I used to rip LD's all the time when I first got a dvd burner, I have a few about somewhere its pretty easy really

NagysAudio, I might have what you are looking for, but your profile is not accepting PMs.

Not sure about other programs but TSMuxeR won't accept 44.1khz LPCM tracks, they have to be 48 (or 96 or 192).

Neither DVD nor BD spec are designed to handle 44.1khz, so most compliant authoring software chooses to either resample it to 48khz, or reject it outright.

Resampling can screw up the synch, because of the way the samples are read; resampling while keeping the same constant playback rate can cause artifacting, depending on the software you use. It's impossible to create a compliant BDMV folder with the literal LD audio intact, but it should be possible to create a reasonably close 48khz copy. Terminator should be mono, anyhow, so I doubt Dolby Surround encoding will be a factor here.

dvdmike007 - Can you rip The Terminator LD to DVD for me?

Terminator should be mono, anyhow, so I doubt Dolby Surround encoding will be a factor here.

Yah, the surround part of the discussion lost me.

If they ever succeed in remastering and rereleasing this film on Blu-ray, it better contain the original mono sound in lossess.

dvdmike007 - Can you rip The Terminator LD to DVD for me?

Don't own the LD and sold the capture capture card sorry

Yah, the surround part of the discussion lost me.


There was another film I was thinking of using the LD audio with the BD video besides Terminator.

Neither DVD nor BD spec are designed to handle 44.1khz, so most compliant authoring software chooses to either resample it to 48khz, or reject it outright.

Resampling can screw up the synch, because of the way the samples are read; resampling while keeping the same constant playback rate can cause artifacting, depending on the software you use. It's impossible to create a compliant BDMV folder with the literal LD audio intact, but it should be possible to create a reasonably close 48khz copy. Terminator should be mono, anyhow, so I doubt Dolby Surround encoding will be a factor here.

Yeah, I wasn't specifically referring to Terminator, although I did recently get the THX LD for the purpose of using its audio with the BD.

I'll have to read up on surround encoding software, maybe something like BeSweet could keep or restore the surround encoding. LMK if you have any suggestions, though.

Didn't have any apparent artifacting or synch issues, though (used the highest level of interpolation accuracy in SoundForge, didn't use an anti-aliasing filter since I believe that's only necessary when downsampling), so at least that shouldn't be a problem.

Sonic Foundry's Softencode has an option for Surround encoding - I've never had to use it, though.

I'm not sure if any of the freeware/consumer level encoders allow 2.0 surround matrixing or not, and the "Pro" software out there is not cheap.

Ok, I have the original THX laser disc's 44.1KHz LPCM track. But merging it with Blu Ray, or even DVD is proving to be a much more difficult task than I thought it would be. Is there anyone capable of doing this? I have just about any sound/video editing program ever made on hand.

I also registered on the Doom9 forum earlier this week and will be asking for help there as well. I can't post a new thread until I've been registered for 5 days.

Can you send me a link to the LPCM? Megaupload or something. I own the Blu-ray and several DVDs, obviously.

Is it true that Cameron is supervising a new HD transfer???

Is it true that Cameron is supervising a new HD transfer???

Yes. Done by the folks at Lowry, just like Aliens. Abyss is next.

Yes. Done by the folks at Lowry, just like Aliens. Abyss is next.

If you read the thread you will see it was cancelled as MGM cannot afford it

If you read the thread you will see it was cancelled as MGM cannot afford it

Really? Dammit. :(

Based on the info that MGM is in a dire financial situation, I saw this at Wal-Mart the other night for $8, and for $8, I'm willing to bite and take the ever so slight improvement in quality (although it's almost negligible), as well as to fix the stretch that appears on the DVD. I'll hang on to the DVD for now, depending on how butchered the audio track is but, I'm not sorry I spent $8 on this.

I bought my copy on sale at BB for $7.99 a while back. I don't regret it, even if it was a marginal improvement. I hope MGM wins the lottery or something, though. I want to see T1 receive the attention Aliens did!

I don't believe the current BD is that bad. It's not great, but it looks fairly film-like and doesn't have that overly processed look to it that I hate.

Did anyone else get around to copying and re-synching the Laserdisc PCM with the Blu-ray video? I finally got around to doing so myself the other night and watched the results (muxed to mkv, so no need to resample from 44.1kHz to 48kHz but I made a 48kHz copy of the PCM just in case).

In addition to the reel change points (which I was able to pinpoint with the non-THX LD since that used a release print) and the LD side change, there seemed to be a few other points where the audio went out of sync for a few frames, but I think I did a pretty good job. There certainly weren't any points where the audio seemed out of sync (other than bit-part actors who had lines that were obviously dubbed over, but that's a part of the original audio of course).

I don't believe the current BD is that bad. It's not great, but it looks fairly film-like and doesn't have that overly processed look to it that I hate.

If they had only included the original audio on the BD, it would be in my collection. It was on the DVD. I don't know what it isn't there on the BD.

Same here, QGJ. I personally think that the PQ is pretty bad, but I'd still own it if the mono track was there. I lasted all of 5 minutes before I took the BD out of my player and listed it on ebay. I despise that 5.1 mix, I really do.

In addition to the reel change points (which I was able to pinpoint with the non-THX LD since that used a release print) and the LD side change, there seemed to be a few other points where the audio went out of sync for a few frames, but I think I did a pretty good job. There certainly weren't any points where the audio seemed out of sync (other than bit-part actors who had lines that were obviously dubbed over, but that's a part of the original audio of course).
There are about 15 points in the Bluray that have an extra frame or two, compared to the LD, mainly at scene changes: this makes it a little more complex to match the soundtrack.

It's been a long time. Has anyone been able to account for the 15 frames in order to merge the laser disc's LPCM original mono soundtrack with the Blu-Ray? I have failed so far and have pretty much given up.

If the laser disc is ripped to a DVD, can the high quality LPCM audio be preserved? If not, then what kind of rip would it have to be (.mkv, etc.) in order to preserve the LPCM track? Can this type of laser disc rip be put onto a DVD disc as a data file(s) and played back on something like the PS3?

Would anyone with a laser disc version of The Terminator be kind enough to make a complete high quality rip? I would be willing to pay for all of the expenses, blank, DVDs, shipping, etc. And would be extremely appreciative :)

It's been a long time. Has anyone been able to account for the 15 frames in order to merge the laser disc's LPCM original mono soundtrack with the Blu-Ray? I have failed so far and have pretty much given up.

I didn't actually notice the differences when watching my re-authored disc, only at a few points when playing my re-edited LD audio simultaneously with the BD audio. And even then, it was just a slight occasional echoing.

If the laser disc is ripped to a DVD, can the high quality LPCM audio be preserved? If not, then what kind of rip would it have to be (.mkv, etc.) in order to preserve the LPCM track? Can this type of laser disc rip be put onto a DVD disc as a data file(s) and played back on something like the PS3?

If you want to preserve the 44.1kHz rate of the LD audio, I believe you have to use mkv. If you resample to 48kHz, then you can re-author as a Blu-ray video (or DVD video if you wanted to re-encode the video) or PS3-compatible format like mp4. (edit: the PS3 can't play files over 4GB unless they're from a BD-R or DVD-R though, but I think there's software like multiAVCHD that lets you get around this).

edit: This is assuming that you rip the LD audio to a PC using a sound card with SPDIF input (I use an M-Audio 2496). If you just use the analog input of a PC or USB recording device or DVD recorder or whatever, then it should be automatically set to 48kHz or allow you to set whatever sampling rate you want.

At this point I've simply given up on having the Blu-Ray's video and LD's LPCM audio track. I would just be interested in obtaining a high quality LD copy on either a DVD disc, or a Blu-Ray disc, preserving the LPCM audio track. If this .mkv file is copied to a Blu-Ray, or a DVD disc, will the PS3 play it? Even if it's over 4GB? Are there any other reasonable ways to copy the LD with LPCM and play it on a PS3?

And a question off topic... How can one play DVDs ripped to a hard drive on a PS3? For example, the DVD's folder has an Audio_TS and a Video_TS sub folders. The PS3 will not recognize the Video_TS folder. It can however play each of the .vob files separately, but there's many of them and that's no way to watch a movie. Besides, it makes it impossible to go to the menu, or switch audio setting, etc.

How does one back up a DVD to a hard drive and watch it on a PS3? With no loss of quality and minimum headache?

At this point I've simply given up on having the Blu-Ray's video and LD's LPCM audio track. I would just be interested in obtaining a high quality LD copy on either a DVD disc, or a Blu-Ray disc, preserving the LPCM audio track. If this .mkv file is copied to a Blu-Ray, or a DVD disc, will the PS3 play it?

No. No mkv support on the PS3 whatsoever (last I checked). Other types of files may work.

Even if it's over 4GB? Are there any other reasonable ways to copy the LD with LPCM and play it on a PS3?

The PS3 can play mp4 files, but I'm not sure if mp4 supports LPCM. I think you can make a big vob file though. Pretty sure multiAVCHD allows for encoding to a PS3-compatible file on a thumbdrive or external HDD.

And a question off topic... How can one play DVDs ripped to a hard drive on a PS3? For example, the DVD's folder has an Audio_TS and a Video_TS sub folders. The PS3 will not recognize the Video_TS folder. It can however play each of the .vob files separately, but there's many of them and that's no way to watch a movie. Besides, it makes it impossible to go to the menu, or switch audio setting, etc.

How does one back up a DVD to a hard drive and watch it on a PS3? With no loss of quality and minimum headache?

Try multiAVCHD.

Jeez! Cameron could easily whip out his check book and pay for the complete restoration and remixes of The Terminator and T2... if he wanted to, that is.

I'm sure he's still a bit miffed that the rights to Terminator were pulled out from under Lightstorm's control by Linda Hamilton.

Though, I'm sure at the time she thought it was ample punishment for his cheating ways. I have read that she now regrets doing that after the fans have had to endure two sh-tty remakes at the hands of complete hacks.

Terminator 5 is supposedly being directed by another low-rent director of one of the Fast and The Furious sequels and has no script. That's just great. :rolleyes:

Jeez! Cameron could easily whip out his check book and pay for the complete restoration and remixes of The Terminator and T2... if he wanted to, that is.

I'm sure he's still a bit miffed that the rights to Terminator were pulled out from under Lightstorm's control by Linda Hamilton.

Though, I'm sure at the time she thought it was ample punishment for his cheating ways. I have read that she now regrets doing that after the fans have had to endure two sh-tty remakes at the hands of complete hacks.

Terminator 5 is supposedly being directed by another low-rent director of one of the Fast and The Furious sequels and has no script. That's just great. :rolleyes:

Mostow and Justin Lin are far from hacks

Bashing Fast Five, is like admitting to war crimes. ;)

Bashing Fast Five, is like admitting to war crimes. ;)

there was noting wrong with the direction

Will there be a new Terminator blu-ray or not?

there was noting wrong with the direction
Don't gotta tell me, dood, I loved it.

Don't gotta tell me, dood, I loved it.

Fair play, Justin Lin is this generation's John McTiernan

Fair play, Justin Lin is this generation's John McTiernan

If you like movies for ADD sufferers. :D

I'd rather have Cameron as director and a good screenwriter (Cameron could supervise or consult on the script, but his writing, ala Titanic and Avatar, has been clunky and too derivative).

Mostow directed T3 and that was complete sh$t, just like T4 with Mc "Charlie's Angel's" G's laughably simplistic attempt.

A lot of Terminator fans are screaming at the top of their lungs to make T5 the real T3 and make it as if those two turkeys never happened. It can be done... just don't wait until Schwarzenegger and Hamilton and Biehn are using walkers.

Shoot the darn thing with a great cinematographer like John Toll or Roger Deakins. For one, they don't do 3D... thank God. I'd say shoot it in Panavision 65mm and convert it to IMAX 70mm for special screenings and downconvert for the other theatrical formats. 7.1 audio. Strip the story down to the basics again (great suspense and drama and character development using only a handful of main characters) with minimal digital special effects (practical effects and stunt work instead).

Two casting choices I'd go for right off the bat are these:

Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Conner, age 30. Watch The Lookout as one great example of his dramatic range and he actually looks similar to a grown up 10-year-old Eddie Furlong from T2.

Summer Glau as one of the main Terminators, not necessarily Cameron again. Though, I would make her the love interest to shake things up and create an instant built in conflict... John Connor is in love with an advanced... Terminator?? It would certainly be a leap forward from his friendship with a T-800 in T2.

And it follows in the footsteps of the powerful James Cameron "love, friendship, and a modicum of moral values -- "good" Terminators can still kick the snot out of someone without killing them -- can perhaps save humanity from our deadly mistakes" motif set forth in the Terminator franchise.

Two casting choices I'd go for right off the bat are these:

Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Conner, age 30. Watch The Lookout as one great example of his dramatic range and he actually looks similar to a grown up 10-year-old Eddie Furlong from T2.

Summer Glau as one of the main Terminators, not necessarily Cameron again. Though, I would make her the love interest to shake things up and create an instant built in conflict... John Connor is in love with an advanced... Terminator?? It would certainly be a leap forward from his friendship with a T-800 in T2.

Sounds worse than T3 and 4 combined. :eek:

Sounds worse than T3 and 4 combined. :eek:

Leave T3 alone, and they have not made T4 yet

Leave T3 alone, and they have not made T4 yet

T3 is pants.
:p

It it was not called Terminator people would have gone nuts for it, the crane chase alone is amazing action cinema

You must also be a fan of the fabulous Michael Bay. He makes the same garbage. :)

Michael Bay wishes.

You must also be a fan of the fabulous Michael Bay. He makes the same garbage. :)

God forbid anyone is entertained

Now come on Mike; you know im just giving you a hard time. ;)

T1 needs a remaster. Can anyone state all the differences between the original audio track and the current?

Sounds worse than T3 and 4 combined. :eek:

I think if they went for a good mix of suspense, action, and drama it could work. According to James Cameron himself the films are supposed to be and were meant to be a kind of morality play, and not just straight action and stunt pieces and popcorn fluff with no message whatsoever. He considers that, especially with what the various serious subjects the Terminator films are dealing with, as irresponsible filmmaking. I'd agree with that.

Personally, if I just wanted to turn off my brain completely and watch the orgasm of digital SFX and split second edits like a drooling zombie, I'd go see Transformers, but I don't like to do that very often. ;)

I'd definitely want to make T5 as if T3 and T4 never, ever happened no matter what. :D

Now come on Mike; you know im just giving you a hard time. ;)

T1 needs a remaster. Can anyone state all the differences between the original audio track and the current?

Too many changes to really list, but if I were I'd mention how every gun sounds completely different.

Now that Sony might distribute MGM films we might actually get the chance to see the new 4k remaster that Lowry did. I'm really hoping so anyway. Personally I love the new 5.1 mix. It's one of my favorites to listen to just because there is so much going on in the sound stage.

As far as changes go for the audio track, there are numerous foley changes as well as missing music left out of mix.

The changes that I can remember off the top of my head are,
- Missing music riff in the opening 2029 sequence. If you watch Reese's first dream you'll hear the missing music. That little riff was left out for nothing more than forgetfulness on the part of the composer apparently.
- In every future flashback scene the sounds that the HK plasma weapons make have been replaced with the sound they used in Terminator 2. Actually there's a mix of both the original T1 plasma gun sound and T2's sound. So you're kind of getting the best of both worlds and it helps continuity between the two movies.
- During the theme song, the original mix contained the sound of metal being scraped against metal. This is missing in the 5.1 mix.
- Probably the most noticeable and spoken about is the massive change to the sound of the Terminators hand gun as he assassinates the first Sarah Connor. In the original mix the gun sounded very Dirty Harry-esque. The 5.1 mix has, as described before, a very "pew-pew" silenced gun sound.
- Also stated in the thread before, a startled Reese wakes from his dream and cocks the shotgun really fast. In the original mix this was very loud and in your face. In the new mix it gets kinda lost in the music.
- There are some changes to the Terminators rifles sounds as he assaults the Police Station. Though not really noticeably so. Not to me anyway.
- The last missing music that I can remember is near the end where the tanker blows up. In the original mix, there was a very high piercing music que as the spark burned down to ignite the pipe bomb which built up the tension of the scene. This que is completely missing from the 5.1 mix.

There are probably more changes than that, but that’s what I can remember off the top of my head. If this new remaster turns out to look spectacular (and hopefully approved by Cameron in same way as Aliens was) then I have high hopes for it. If they make the effort to fix the 5.1 mix and include the original mono mix in lossless then we’ll have a real winner here, finally.

Now that Sony might distribute MGM films we might actually get the chance to see the new 4k remaster that Lowry did.

MGM has renewed its distribution deal with Fox. Sony is out.

Now that Sony might distribute MGM films we might actually get the chance to see the new 4k remaster that Lowry did. I'm really hoping so anyway. Personally I love the new 5.1 mix. It's one of my favorites to listen to just because there is so much going on in the sound stage.

As far as changes go for the audio track, there are numerous foley changes as well as missing music left out of mix.

The changes that I can remember off the top of my head are,
- Missing music riff in the opening 2029 sequence. If you watch Reese's first dream you'll hear the missing music. That little riff was left out for nothing more than forgetfulness on the part of the composer apparently.
- In every future flashback scene the sounds that the HK plasma weapons make have been replaced with the sound they used in Terminator 2. Actually there's a mix of both the original T1 plasma gun sound and T2's sound. So you're kind of getting the best of both worlds and it helps continuity between the two movies.
- During the theme song, the original mix contained the sound of metal being scraped against metal. This is missing in the 5.1 mix.
- Probably the most noticeable and spoken about is the massive change to the sound of the Terminators hand gun as he assassinates the first Sarah Connor. In the original mix the gun sounded very Dirty Harry-esque. The 5.1 mix has, as described before, a very "pew-pew" silenced gun sound.
- Also stated in the thread before, a startled Reese wakes from his dream and cocks the shotgun really fast. In the original mix this was very loud and in your face. In the new mix it gets kinda lost in the music.
- There are some changes to the Terminators rifles sounds as he assaults the Police Station. Though not really noticeably so. Not to me anyway.
- The last missing music that I can remember is near the end where the tanker blows up. In the original mix, there was a very high piercing music que as the spark burned down to ignite the pipe bomb which built up the tension of the scene. This que is completely missing from the 5.1 mix.

There are probably more changes than that, but that’s what I can remember off the top of my head. If this new remaster turns out to look spectacular (and hopefully approved by Cameron in same way as Aliens was) then I have high hopes for it. If they make the effort to fix the 5.1 mix and include the original mono mix in lossless then we’ll have a real winner here, finally.

Thanks a ton. This sounds like a bunch of things, with some small improvements here and there. Sounds like they should just redo the 5.1 mix with the original elements.

The VQ is definitely lacking. It looks minutely better than the DVD, but not much.

But for $9.99, I really had to get this. Looking forward to any future re-releases.

My love for the original has grown whilst my love for T2 has waned. I would love to get this on BD, however as the current version is only marginally better than the DVD version, ill pass and hope for a remaster at some point.

My love for the original has grown whilst my love for T2 has waned. I would love to get this on BD, however as the current version is only marginally better than the DVD version, ill pass and hope for a remaster at some point.

I am the same as T2 has disappointed me time and time again on home video.
Oh I now have laserdisc capturing methods, and looking at the three releases I own the waveform looks exactly the same, they just made it twice as loud

I dispise the T2 transfer more than the T1 transfer.

At-least the T1 transfer PLAYS right away.

With the T2 transfer, it feels like a bloated pig...takes about 5 minutes for the movie to start. Plus, the transfer is just processed and fugly. Sold mine awhile ago, and I'm just waiting on a remastering of both Terminators.

I dispise the T2 transfer more than the T1 transfer.

At-least the T1 transfer PLAYS right away.

With the T2 transfer, it feels like a bloated pig...takes about 5 minutes for the movie to start. Plus, the transfer is just processed and fugly. Sold mine awhile ago, and I'm just waiting on a remastering of both Terminators.

Its an old, old, old below 2k scan from a damaged tired print

I'm also waiting for a T1 remaster along with the original mono track which I miss due to selling the DVD years ago.

I hate the T1 5.1 mix with a passion. It sounds nothing - nothing - like the movie which I love so much. Every gun effect has either been replaced, dialled down or is missing completely, and the music is either off in the timing or again missing outright.

I don't care how good the remastered PQ turns out 'cause if it doesn't have the mono, or at the very least a re-worked 5.1 track, then count me out.

I hate the T1 5.1 mix with a passion. It sounds nothing - nothing - like the movie which I love so much. Every gun effect has either been replaced, dialled down or is missing completely, and the music is either off in the timing or again missing outright.

I don't care how good the remastered PQ turns out 'cause if it doesn't have the mono, or at the very least a re-worked 5.1 track, then count me out.

I hate that and the T2 mixes, it's criminal how both of them are treated

I hate the T1 5.1 mix with a passion. It sounds nothing - nothing - like the movie which I love so much. Every gun effect has either been replaced, dialled down or is missing completely, and the music is either off in the timing or again missing outright.

I don't care how good the remastered PQ turns out 'cause if it doesn't have the mono, or at the very least a re-worked 5.1 track, then count me out.

Yes, it would be horrible if they didn't include the original mono with the next version. Not sure why they can't since they included it with the friggin' DVD!

The mono track should be done in DTS-MA or LPCM too. I don't want a Dolby 1.0 track.

Yeah, count me in for new and improved 7.1 mixes of both films done with TLC and released on Blu in 24 bit lossless, with the original theatrical mixes in lossless as well.

Cameron and his DP's had best supervise the transfers all the way to the consumer Blu-rays. There are so many ways that even quality restorations can get messed up in the chain. I think we've all seen that happen.

Dan,

5.1 music addict? What! Music is best heard in stereo...you know this!

Except for concerts maybe...

Cameron and his DP's had best supervise the transfers all the way to the consumer Blu-rays.
So we can see another Blu in teal?!?!

Man, I so hate revisionism unless the original is also offered as an option with the same care and attention as lavished on any revised version.

We might see the Lowry/Lightstorm remaster of The Terminator on Blu-Ray sooner than we thought. Possibly within the next 6-12 months. This is what Van Ling had to say on 01-21-2011, just six months ago:

"the hope is that Terminator will get back on track soon... I was put on hold back in 2009 because many of the desired key participants were a bit busy doing stuff like environmentalism, picking up awards and trying to run California; if we're lucky, there might be a chance of a new release later this year. My understanding is that Lightstorm has been working on a Lowry restoration of T1 for a while now."

The complete thread can be found here: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/274676/terminator-1-2/600

Seems like the wildly speculated MGM financial issues are not at play at all. My personal guess is that, with all that he has on his hands at the moment, Jim Cameron just needs more time to approve the new transfer and supervise the entire restoration process. Very good news indeed!!!!!!

My personal guess is that, with all that he has on his hands at the moment, Jim Cameron just needs more time to approve the new transfer and supervise the entire restoration process. Very good news indeed!!!!!!

Not so good news if you know James Cameron's history. He has put off approving new transfers for The Abyss and True Lies for over a decade now because he's had "too much on his hands."

Not so good news if you know James Cameron's history. He has put off approving new transfers for The Abyss and True Lies for over a decade now because he's had "too much on his hands."

Yeah. I'm still waiting for True Lies.... on dvd. :rolleyes:

I'll take the BD now, thankyouverymuch! :D



Ugh. The sad part is that TL is on Netflix in HD and looks WWAAAAYYYYY better than my non-anamorphic dvd. What gives? GIMMEH MAH BLU RAY!!!! :p

Ugh. The sad part is that TL is on Netflix in HD and looks WWAAAAYYYYY better than my non-anamorphic dvd. What gives? GIMMEH MAH BLU RAY!!!! :p
That's what happens when a laserdisc master is used for DVD (see also The Abyss). The R1 True Lies DVD is so bad it's tragic. The anamorphic R2 disc (which crept through uncut before being recalled) looked superb though.

What's doubly frustrating about True Lies is that HD versions are out there! It's available on demand as you say, it was released on 1080i DVHS, it's been broadcast on TV etc etc. IMO the subject matter is still working against it.

There are no such worries about The Abyss, unless they don't want to offend soppy underwater aliens. I don't care if Cameron is living on board the freakin' Titanic in a submersible while shooting Avatar 2, 3, 4 and 5 back to back to back to back; how hard can it be to spare a few hours here and there to check a new video master?

I'm very aware of Jim Cameron's history. True Lies and The Abyss are both not at the same stage as The Terminator right now. Cameron had no problem approving the new master for Aliens Blu-Ray by the way.

The Terminator has been worked on extensively for the past 3 years in house at Lightstorm, where Cameron is overseeing the entire process personally. As soon as the remaster is done and as soon as they can finish all of the interviews and extras that Van Ling has been working on, the film will be released to Blu-Ray.

As for The Abyss remaster that was done some years ago, maybe Cameron is just simply not excited, or interested in it. Aliens was also shown in HD on TV, but the master that Cameron approved was the brand new, Lowry 4K one that he personally supervised.

Jim Cameron did Aliens, The Terminator is being worked on as we speak at his own studio, Lightstorm. He is also finishing Titanic for next years re-release. In all of the interviews that he has made, he said The Abyss and True Lies will be next. My guess is that they will start real work on them later next year.

The only movie that will be left with an old master is Terminator 2, which Lowry just did and was released as the Skynet Edition. My take on this is as follows... Cameron still hasn't decided if he wants to convert it into 3D. He said Terminator 2 was the only other film of his that he would consider. Now he has to wait an see how profitable Titanic's 3D re-release will is and then make the decision. If Titanic is successful, Terminator 2 will take a year, or two to convert. If he decides not to, then a new master will not be made until after The Abyss and True Lies.

I'm very aware of Jim Cameron's history. True Lies and The Abyss are both not at the same stage as The Terminator right now. Cameron had no problem approving the new master for Aliens Blu-Ray by the way.


"Cameron had no problem approving the new master for Aliens Blu-Ray by the way."


Butt LOOK at IT!!

Butt LOOK at IT!!

Teal > Pink... just sayin'. :)

I hated the pink look of Aliens. It reminds me of the first series of Star Trek TNG, that was bathed in pink light too.

The Terminator has been worked on extensively for the past 3 years in house at Lightstorm, where Cameron is overseeing the entire process personally. As soon as the remaster is done and as soon as they can finish all of the interviews and extras that Van Ling has been working on, the film will be released to Blu-Ray.

Jim Cameron did Aliens, The Terminator is being worked on as we speak at his own studio, Lightstorm. He is also finishing Titanic for next years re-release. In all of the interviews that he has made, he said The Abyss and True Lies will be next. My guess is that they will start real work on them later next year. This is all great information for me. Unlike a lot of folks around here, I love the new Aliens BD--I find the color timing works very well for the feel and location of the film--dim artificial lighting on a space ship and alien world. Then again, I haven't watched Aliens since I saw it in the theater and bought the Special Edition LD box set, so I never got acclimated to the pinkified DVD versions. I'm sure all of Cameron's back catalog will be well worth the wait whenever these new masters finally make it to BD.

No love for the Aliens BD?
Sheesh.:rolleyes:

Although it doesn't look as good as Alien, still, it's pretty damn satisfying (assuming one is a fan of the film).

If Mr. Avatar "totally de-grains"* "TT" like he said he did for "Aliens"...
then it will be just as smeared as well.

* http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=68820
Check out from 5:40 mins onward.
We all know he didn't "totally de-grain" it, however that is what he said & the results are DNR smearing.

I hated the pink look of Aliens. It reminds me of the first series of Star Trek TNG, that was bathed in pink light too.

It isn't that we liked the pinkish push of the old transfers. However, at least they had some other colors in them than just teal. There were blues and grays and reds and greens, etc. The Blu-ray is one flat, monotonous teal with practically no other colors in it.

No love for the Aliens BD?
Sheesh.:rolleyes:

Although it doesn't look as good as Alien, still, it's pretty damn satisfying (assuming one is a fan of the film).

In all respects other than color, the Aliens Blu-ray looks fantastic. It's much sharper, more detailed and less noisy (without sacrificing the "gritty" look with a decent amount of grain) than ever before. Unfortunately, the teal tinting is flat-out hideous, IMO.

And that's all it is, opinion. We all moan when we don't get discs that are representative of the 'director's intent', yet when we get a director approved release - a release that looks better than any other version of the film previously available on a home format - people still moan because it doesn't look like they want it to look. The filmmakers/studios/distributors can't win.

I think it looks great, but again that's just an opinion.

No, the issue of contention is the revisionism to the current -Trend- of shifting color grading/timing to teal.

It seems that damn near every movie in the last ten years has taken on this color palette and now far too many older classics are being "modernized" with the same thing. Ten years from now everyone will be scratching their heads to why this pervasive proliferation of monotonicity.

Since it has been so extensively abused many find it normal and no longer appreciate how foolish it is.

I am of mixed opinion of the choice made for Aliens; Cameron's films tend to be cooler in over all palette but that is has been typically reinforced more by production choices rather than solely post color timing.

I am certain more people would be more up in arms if the current trend was to make everything more desaturated amber like a lot of period films have been done in.

My vote is for a pristine optimal presentation of Terminator without any overt modernization which is accompanied by the original mono mix and a better 5.1 mix.

Best Regards
KvE

Just watched 5 minutes of Scott's Robin Hood for the first time and the colors were so hideous and ugly I didn't bother watching it. This trend has to stop.

And that's all it is, opinion. We all moan when we don't get discs that are representative of the 'director's intent', yet when we get a director approved release - a release that looks better than any other version of the film previously available on a home format - people still moan because it doesn't look like they want it to look. The filmmakers/studios/distributors can't win.

So I take it that you think the purple-tinted French Connection disc is fine and dandy? After, the director approved it and says that it's what he always wanted. Never mind that his own cinematographer publicly called him a liar and described the transfer as "atrocious."

What directors like Cameron and Friedkin want now unfortunately has little relation to what they wanted when the films were actually made.

So I take it that you think the purple-tinted French Connection disc is fine and dandy? After, the director approved it and says that it's what he always wanted. Never mind that his own cinematographer publicly called him a liar and described the transfer as "atrocious."

What directors like Cameron and Friedkin want now unfortunately has little relation to what they wanted when the films were actually made.

Do you think Lucas is largely responsible for starting this revisionist trend, or would it have happened without him? No question the age of digital tools made it so easy for directors to start fiddling around with their films years later.

It isn't that we liked the pinkish push of the old transfers. However, at least they had some other colors in them than just teal. There were blues and grays and reds and greens, etc. The Blu-ray is one flat, monotonous teal with practically no other colors in it.

This (http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/index.php?art=full&image=10&vergleich=aliens&action=1&lossless=1#vergleich) shot begs to differ. I won't deny that there's some level of teal pushing gray towards green, but prior transfers weren't exactly glowing technicolor marvels to start with. Even the HDTV release of Aliens was pretty flat looking and had that same annoying pink cast as the DVD (if slightly less so due to higher color resolution).

Don't get me wrong, you've got my support 100% on blatantly problematic restorations like Suspiria, Dracula and The French Connection. But I really do think any issues with Aliens are minor, and just a bit overblown. (But what do they say opinions are like? Everybody's got one, and all that...? :D )

For everyone who'd rather Cameron not color time the films as he sees fit, I ask this: If the director can't be "trusted" to restore the film, who the hell can be? A salaried colorist who doesn't know the first thing about the movie, and has no solid references to work from except for maybe an extremely limited color-graded IP from 20+ years ago? Is that really better?

Do you think Lucas is largely responsible for starting this revisionist trend, or would it have happened without him? No question the age of digital tools made it so easy for directors to start fiddling around with their films years later.

Charlie Chaplin heavily revised The Gold Rush 17 years after its original release, so Lucas is hardly the first:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0015864/alternateversions

There is a 1942 re-issue version, prepared by Chaplin himself, which uses his own narration, music score, and editing (running time: 72 minutes). This version is the only one which has its copyright owned by the Chaplin Film company. Many scenes of the 1942 version derived from an alternate camera that was shooting simultaneously. This explains some of the very slight differences in camera angle, although Chaplin also deleted some footage in order to tighten the pacing (such as Big Jim and the Tramp's near-encounter in the Gold Rush town and the shot of a woman comforting another woman during the singing of "Auld Lang Syne".

So I take it that you think the purple-tinted French Connection disc is fine and dandy? After, the director approved it and says that it's what he always wanted. Never mind that his own cinematographer publicly called him a liar and described the transfer as "atrocious."

What directors like Cameron and Friedkin want now unfortunately has little relation to what they wanted when the films were actually made.
Never seen it so I can't comment, but if you think that Aliens looks bad there's no helping you.

... but if you think that Aliens looks bad there's no helping you.
If you think "Aliens" on Blu looks like the film released in 1986 "there's no helping you"#.

Badd is of coarse subjective; you can watch "Aliens" on Blu, its not that badd.
Just what does it look like & what doesn't it look like.
Whether that's good or badd is open too debate.

It's badd if you had hoped it would be representative of the '86 film & its good if you wanted it too look like 2010 video.
Mr. Avatar wanted it too look like modern digital video; he got he's way.
However, the film fans don't have too be force fed that digital manipulated "totally de-noised, de-grained, up-rezzed, and color corrected"* product.

Just don't say the "1986 Aliens" on Blu looks GREAT! Cause it doesn't.
This is more like "Last of the Mohicans" on Blu too me. That release was the "directors" movie; not what was seen & heard back-in-the-day in the theater.

I would hope (that's all I can do), that "TT" will look like its old gritty gray self.
Not, green, or teal, or pink, or orange!!!!
[and the original soundtrack would be GREAT/is that REALLY asking too much!]

# your words; not mine!
* his words; not mine!

Just don't say the "1986 Aliens" on Blu looks GREAT!
Okay, I won't. I'll say it looks 'frikkin great'. ;)

If you think "Aliens" on Blu looks like the film released in 1986 "there's no helping you"#.

Badd is of coarse subjective; you can watch "Aliens" on Blu, its not that badd.
Just what does it look like & what doesn't it look like.
Whether that's good or badd is open too debate.

It's badd if you had hoped it would be representative of the '86 film & its good if you wanted it too look like 2010 video.
Mr. Avatar wanted it too look like modern digital video; he got he's way.
However, the film fans don't have too be force fed that digital manipulated "totally de-noised, de-grained, up-rezzed, and color corrected"* product.

Just don't say the "1986 Aliens" on Blu looks GREAT! Cause it doesn't.
This is more like "Last of the Mohicans" on Blu too me. That release was the "directors" movie; not what was seen & heard back-in-the-day in the theater.

I would hope (that's all I can do), that "TT" will look like its old gritty gray self.
Not, green, or teal, or pink, or orange!!!!
[and the original soundtrack would be GREAT/is that REALLY asking too much!]

# your words; not mine!
* his words; not mine!
Apparently you have reading comprehension issues to compliment your spelling problem. Please direct me to the post where I said it looks like the 1986 release. The point I was making was that Cameron was never happy with the way the film looked, so he took the opportunity to deliver what he considers to be his preferred version of the film (which is vastly superior to any other home video release) and all some people can do is bitch. Some people on this forum are all in favour of director intent as long as it doesn't differ from their own preference.

He didn't approve a sub-par BD with terrible image quality. He didn't go back and add CGI xenomorphs. The integrity of the film is intact, it just looks a bit different (better) than it did on VHS/laser/DVD. In spite of this all some people can do is moan about how it has different colour timing. Cry me a river...

Charlie Chaplin heavily revised The Gold Rush 17 years after its original release, so Lucas is hardly the first:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0015864/alternateversions

There is a 1942 re-issue version, prepared by Chaplin himself, which uses his own narration, music score, and editing (running time: 72 minutes). This version is the only one which has its copyright owned by the Chaplin Film company. Many scenes of the 1942 version derived from an alternate camera that was shooting simultaneously. This explains some of the very slight differences in camera angle, although Chaplin also deleted some footage in order to tighten the pacing (such as Big Jim and the Tramp's near-encounter in the Gold Rush town and the shot of a woman comforting another woman during the singing of "Auld Lang Syne".

I do know even others than Chaplin modified their films later which is why I used the words "largely responsible" with Lucas. The Special Edition Star Wars movies got a lot of attention as digital tweaking was reaching new heights and a lot of notoriety was given to these new versions. It seems other directors started deciding they could do the same in different ways. I just wonder if it helped facilitate a greater tendency (for directors) to use these readily available digital tools to go back and make changes.

Apparently you have reading comprehension issues to compliment your spelling problem. Please direct me to the post where I said it looks like the 1986 release. The point I was making was that Cameron was never happy with the way the film looked, so he took the opportunity to deliver what he considers to be his preferred version of the film (which is vastly superior to any other home video release) and all some people can do is bitch. Some people on this forum are all in favour of director intent as long as it doesn't differ from their own preference.

He didn't approve a sub-par BD with terrible image quality. He didn't go back and add CGI xenomorphs. The integrity of the film is intact, it just looks a bit different (better) than it did on VHS/laser/DVD. In spite of this all some people can do is moan about how it has different colour timing. Cry me a river...

Perfectly said. This whole issue that some people have with Aliens is getting very tiring.

Besides, this is about the Terminator and if Cameron can make the Terminator look as good as Aliens does than I'll be very happy.

Do you think Lucas is largely responsible for starting this revisionist trend, or would it have happened without him? No question the age of digital tools made it so easy for directors to start fiddling around with their films years later.

Lucas is the worst offender, but I think this trend would have happened without him. Digital tools make it too easy for filmmakers to "tinker" with projects that were long-since completed, just because they can. That temptation is very hard for some people to resist.

This (http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/index.php?art=full&image=10&vergleich=aliens&action=1&lossless=1#vergleich) shot begs to differ.

Ah, so there's both teal AND orange. So much better! :)

Let me qualify my previous statement. The early parts of Aliens have teal spinkled in liberally, but are not overly dominated by the shade. However, once the marines land on LV-426 (which is, what, a half-hour in?), teal is practically the only color you'll see again for the rest of the movie. Every shot is doused in it, with only a little bit of orange from muzzle flashes and explosions to break it up.

For everyone who'd rather Cameron not color time the films as he sees fit, I ask this: If the director can't be "trusted" to restore the film, who the hell can be? A salaried colorist who doesn't know the first thing about the movie, and has no solid references to work from except for maybe an extremely limited color-graded IP from 20+ years ago? Is that really better?

There is no perfect answer here. Generally, you think you'd want to side with the filmmaker. However, filmmakers are not gods. They are fallible people, just like everyone else. Sometimes they make bad decisions. And when they do, they deserve to be called out on it.

Aliens stands out as such an obvious revision because movies of the time period simply were not teal. The teal fad is a recent development this decade. The Blu-ray doesn't look like anything that was made in the 1980s. It has clearly been tealed up to "modernize" it, and I find that really distasteful.

Ah, so there's both teal AND orange. So much better! :)

Let me qualify my previous statement. The early parts of Aliens have teal spinkled in liberally, but are not overly dominated by the shade. However, once the marines land on LV-426 (which is, what, a half-hour in?), teal is practically the only color you'll see again for the rest of the movie. Every shot is doused in it, with only a little bit of orange from muzzle flashes and explosions to break it up.



There is no perfect answer here. Generally, you think you'd want to side with the filmmaker. However, filmmakers are not gods. They are fallible people, just like everyone else. Sometimes they make bad decisions. And when they do, they deserve to be called out on it.

Aliens stands out as such an obvious revision because movies of the time period simply were not teal. The teal fad is a recent development this decade. The Blu-ray doesn't look like anything that was made in the 1980s. It has clearly been tealed up to "modernize" it, and I find that really distasteful.

It is a shame, really. I recently watched Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (for probably the twelfth time or something) and my eyes felt like they caught a lucky break. The colors were digitally tweaked for sure with a bit of desaturation going on and whatnot but they weren't bathed in teal and orange. No such luck when I plugged in Deathly Hallows but I had honestly started to forget how nice a modern movie can look without that obnoxious color scheme. I can personally live with it on Aliens, but on Alien it is really distracting.

Ah, so there's both teal AND orange. So much better!

O-ho! Caught me on a juice-related technicality. :D

Aliens stands out as such an obvious revision because movies of the time period simply were not teal. The teal fad is a recent development this decade. The Blu-ray doesn't look like anything that was made in the 1980s. It has clearly been tealed up to "modernize" it, and I find that really distasteful.

If Aliens is "distasteful", how would you describe stuff like The French Connection and Dracula? :eek:

While I won't argue that it's there, I honestly don't think THIS (http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/index.php?art=full&image=8&vergleich=aliens&action=1&lossless=1) is nearly as damaging as many people are making it out to be. Aliens has always been a dim, poorly saturated film, and that monotone shifting from slightly blue to slightly green has far less impact on me than the DVD fleshtones shifting regularly towards pink, or the fact that highlights are no longer being blown out. The color timing is only part of the puzzle anyway - surely you'd not want studios to go back to scanning IP materials at lower resolutions, just to ensure that the Blu-ray has that "classic" look of a duplicate theatrical print?

Mind you, I can see making a case for only using original "finished" optical elements. Personally, I can forgive erasing Lance Henricksen's lower body sticking out of a hole being erased digitally - it's certainly no CGI Jabba, and if that's something that's always bugged Cameron, I can't say I'm overly fussed with him erasing it for his modern director-approved-version. It's not as if he's erasing all of our DVRs and stomping on our DVDs if we prefer the older versions either, so it's far less a damning situation than titles that have never had a proper release of their "Original" versions. (Honestly, I'm kind of amazed THAT hasn't gotten half as much scrutiny as the color temperature...)

But this may be where we agree to disagree, and that's fine. I think Aliens is - broadly speaking - a good use of modern tools to present a film that's 25 years old as the director may well have always wanted it to. If the sets looking a little green around the gills is the worst thing we have to complain about, we should probably count ourselves lucky... heck, weren't we all petrified when Cameron was talking about "Uprezzing" and "Degraining" the whole film? ;)

If Aliens is "distasteful", how would you describe stuff like The French Connection and Dracula? :eek:

Absolutely horrific.

While I won't argue that it's there, I honestly don't think THIS (http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/index.php?art=full&image=8&vergleich=aliens&action=1&lossless=1) is nearly as damaging as many people are making it out to be. Aliens has always been a dim, poorly saturated film, and that monotone shifting from slightly blue to slightly green has far less impact on me than the DVD fleshtones shifting regularly towards pink, or the fact that highlights are no longer being blown out.

Let me ask you this: What if, instead of teal, the next big fad in color grading is to make all movies bright glowing neon fuscha? Just because, one day, someone decides that fuschia looks cool, and everyone in Hollywood jumps on board the bandwagon. Would you be OK with Cameron re-doing Aliens with a new all-fuschia transfer? Or would you look at it and say, "That's hideously inappropriate. Why would anyone think this is a good idea?"

Teal is just as arbitrary a color to re-grade the movie to as fuschia. And frankly, it's barely any less gaudy or obnoxious.

Fuscha, Teal, Puce, Robin's Egg, Putty, Salmon, whatever. If the final results are as minute and and inoffensive as Aliens, I could care less what push colorists arbitrarily decide is the "in" pallet.

Now if Aliens looked like THIS (http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/index.php?art=full&image=5&vergleich=saw&action=1&lossless=1), or THIS (http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/index.php?art=full&image=6&vergleich=splice&action=1&lossless=0#vergleich)... yeah, we'd have a big problem and I'd be behind you 100%. But Aliens (thankfully) looks nothing like that.

So, uh... how's about that there Terminator movie? ;)

Are some of you serious?? Aliens on Blu-Ray is one of the best remasters in the history of film! Some of the comments on here are simply insane!

I'm one of the biggest movie preservation fans out there. I HATE what was done to some of the classic films like the original Star Wars trilogy, E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial, Jaws, The Terminator, etc.

But the Aliens remaster which was 100% supervised by Jim Cameron (one of, if not THE most talented filmmaker ever) is flawless. This is a statement piece and a showcase of what modern technology can do to a 25 year old film.

Yes, there is a teal push to make it look a bit more modern. But this new color timing is significantly superior to what was done in 1986 in every possible way. The talk that it hardly has any other colors besides teal is complete nonsense and is laughable at best.

Everything else with the transfer is perfection, film like grain, moderate DNR, no EE, no black crush, etc. And amazing lossless original soundtrack.

Of all the classic films that have been mistreated over the years, you guys have the nerve to pick on this one?

James Cameron is a master filmmaker and from this master came Aliens on Blu-Ray, which is now an absolute reference quality film, to showcase the very best state of the art technology for home theater.

If The Terminator is anywhere near this type of reference quality, we will all be in for a treat.

I thought the teal push worked for Aliens because it's an alien planet, mostly indoors, and needs to feel creepier than the color temperature of your average Best Buy showroom. Bluish white in the egg nest just didn't look right.

Fuscha, Teal, Puce, Robin's Egg, Putty, Salmon, whatever. If the final results are as minute and and inoffensive as Aliens, I could care less what push colorists arbitrarily decide is the "in" pallet.

I don't find the teal push to be either minute or inoffensive. It takes me instantly out of the movie. Your mileage may vary. But whether you agree or not, the fact remains that this is not how the movie was originally photographed. It's revisionism.

James Cameron is a master filmmaker and from this master came Aliens on Blu-Ray, which is now an absolute reference quality film, to showcase the very best state of the art technology for home theater.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome James Cameron's publicist to the forum. :rolleyes:

So I've asked Mr. Van Ling for an update on The Terminator Blu-Ray and he replied on 07-24-2011 with this:

"I don't have any more current info on the status of the T1 disc; I can only say I'm still on hold in my work on the title and have been so for literally years now. I surmise that it's not only Jim Cameron who will need to find the time to put some attention to it, but Arnold as well. As it seems that our former governor has had some other issues to contend with lately, I'm sure that will impact the forward movement of the disc too. Obviously, I think that these two gentlemen's participation is worth waiting for, and I would expect that most fans would agree."

Full conversation can be found here: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/274676/terminator-1-2/630

****, I forgot about all that recent hullabaloo surrounding Ahnuld. That'll definitely put a spanner in the works as far as True Lies and T1 are concerned.

That just leaves The Abyss. Come on Jimbo, there are no excuses left. I don't care if you colour the damned thing in neon fuchsia, just give us an anamorphic version already!

"Obviously, I think that these two gentlemen's participation is worth waiting for, and I would expect that most fans would agree."

Hmm... I'm not sure that I do. This movie is now 25 years old. There has been a lot of "making of" material about it available for a long time now. Yes, I'd like Cameron to be able to guide the transfer process, but I don't think Schwarzenegger will have any input on that part of the process. As much as getting some first-class new supplements made would be nice, the movie's the priority and I'd like to see a nice transfer on Blu-ray before the format is washed up.

I never thought Arnold's sexual peccadilloes would affect a Blu ray release!

Hmm... I'm not sure that I do. This movie is now 25 years old. There has been a lot of "making of" material about it available for a long time now. Yes, I'd like Cameron to be able to guide the transfer process, but I don't think Schwarzenegger will have any input on that part of the process. As much as getting some first-class new supplements made would be nice, the movie's the priority and I'd like to see a nice transfer on Blu-ray before the format is washed up.
That's the logical way of looking at it, but the studio will no doubt want some new features to shout about (which is of course what Van started working on several years ago) and getting Arnie on board will be a big part of that.

Aaanuld not being able to keep it zipped has put the kibosh on a new Terminator film as well. He was supposed to star in it, though it still doesn't mean it will be any good.

They need an A-grade direct and writer, not B, C, D, or F as the last two were (trending more towards F).

Rumor was buzzing that William Wisher, co-writer of T2, wanted a crack at the new script. Don't know how much input he actually had on T2 since he was commenting to Cameron that most of his screenwriting contributions and ideas were cut out by Cameron on the audio commentary. Though he didn't seem too upset.

Wisher would probably be the closest person besides Cameron to know how the continuing storyline was supposed to go if they did a T3 until it got derailed by being sold off to a bunch of hacks.

Hell, I'd love it if Cameron at least directed a really good script. Say what you will about his latest efforts in script writing (Titanic and Avatar), but he is a gifted director and visualist and has an eye for detail (he did do most of the conceptual design work for his movies himself).

I never thought Arnold's sexual peccadilloes would affect a Blu ray release!

I highly doubt it would really affect it. Most people could not care less who or what Arnold bangs.

Aaanuld not being able to keep it zipped has put the kibosh on a new Terminator film as well. He was supposed to star in it, though it still doesn't mean it will be any good.

They need an A-grade direct and writer, not B, C, D, or F as the last two were (trending more towards F).

Rumor was buzzing that William Wisher, co-writer of T2, wanted a crack at the new script. Don't know how much input he actually had on T2 since he was commenting to Cameron that most of his screenwriting contributions and ideas were cut out by Cameron on the audio commentary. Though he didn't seem too upset.

Wisher would probably be the closest person besides Cameron to know how the continuing storyline was supposed to go if they did a T3 until it got derailed by being sold off to a bunch of hacks.

Hell, I'd love it if Cameron at least directed a really good script. Say what you will about his latest efforts in script writing (Titanic and Avatar), but he is a gifted director and visualist and has an eye for detail (he did do most of the conceptual design work for his movies himself).
Not just concept art.

For example, he wrote a 10+ page worksheet detailing every little nut and bolt about the spaceship you see at the beginning of Avatar

I dont think theres another director in hollywood as detail obsessed as him.

Not just concept art.

For example, he wrote a 10+ page worksheet detailing every little nut and bolt about the spaceship you see at the beginning of Avatar

I dont think theres another director in hollywood as detail obsessed as him.
David Fincher?

David Fincher?

Guillermo del Toro. I enjoy his illustrations in the arty "Making Of" books that come out whenever he releases a new film as much as the movie itself.

If I may bump this old thread, I recently did a comparison of the Blu-ray master and the original TV airing on NBC which is in 4/3.

I found the DVD / Blu-ray master is framed a bit too tight, cutting off, especially on top, things that clearly must have been framed to be seen in the picture (like a wall clock in the police precinct).

Here's a comparison. I think instead of masking top and bottom, the new Blu-ray / remaster should be in 1.77 format, opening up a bit the top and bottom, so that the framing look proper.



Cameron loved his 4:3 back then so shot safe

Yes, I'd like Cameron to be able to guide the transfer process, but I don't think Schwarzenegger will have any input on that part of the process. As much as getting some first-class new supplements made would be nice, the movie's the priority and I'd like to see a nice transfer on Blu-ray before the format is washed up.

Absolutely keep Schwarzenegger out of the transfer process: we don't want any of his facial DNR to rub off.

Cameron signs off, this was confirmed

JC signs off on masters, not encodes, hence the T2 Skynet DNR debacle.

JC signs off on masters, not encodes, hence the T2 Skynet DNR debacle.

That master is crap no matter how you filter it, I think you need to look at Aliens if you are making a comparison

Wow, for a moment thought we are going to see the Holy Grail edition of T2 featuring a properly remastered picture.:(

Wow, for a moment thought we are going to see the Holy Grail edition of T2 featuring a properly remastered picture.:(

We are, just after Terminator and The Abyss

The Japanese T2 is probably the best we will have for the next eight years.

The Japanese T2 is probably the best we will have for the next eight years.

Dog food by another name...

That master is crap no matter how you filter it, I think you need to look at Aliens if you are making a comparison
Heh. There's a bit of baked-in EE, but apart from that T2 still looks pretty darned good for what is now a 9 year old transfer. (If Universal came up with "crap" like that on a regular basis I'd be over the moon.) The extra dirt removal/DNR pass is what did for the Skynet edition.

T2 is okay for the moment. And The Terminator mightn't look great, but at least it's 16:9. The Abyss STILL hasn't been afforded that basic technical requirement, which is a disgrace.

Heh. There's a bit of baked-in EE, but apart from that T2 still looks pretty darned good for what is now a 9 year old transfer. (If Universal came up with "crap" like that on a regular basis I'd be over the moon.) The extra dirt removal/DNR pass is what did for the Skynet edition.

T2 is okay for the moment. And The Terminator mightn't look great, but at least it's 16:9. The Abyss STILL hasn't been afforded that basic technical requirement, which is a disgrace.

There is little fine detail and the colour reproduction is far from perfect.
I am also wanting the Abyss before anything.
Plus there is print damage and poorly resolved grain.

The plot thickens

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003BNY6YY/ref=cm_sw_r_an_am_ap_am_gb?ie=UTF8

The plot thickens

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003BNY6YY/ref=cm_sw_r_an_am_ap_am_gb?ie=UTF8
Perhaps just trying to better match with the T2 Skynet Edition cover art? I'm not getting my hopes up.

Perhaps just trying to better match with the T2 Skynet Edition cover art? I'm not getting my hopes up.

It has never been released in the UK before, this is the first UK release.

The plot thickens

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003BNY6YY/ref=cm_sw_r_an_am_ap_am_gb?ie=UTF8
That's the US digibook artwork, innit.

http://www.nt2099.com/J-ENT/blu-ray/terminator-b.jpg

Yes, the point is not the art. The point is that it is finally getting a UK release and it may not be the same transfer, chances are that is is the same one, but why would they wait this long to finally release the old transfer?

I'm proceeding with caution.

I'm proceeding with caution.

As am I