View Full Version : What might be wrong/could be done, the "black" isn't as black as it could/should be?


Nighthog
09-16-09, 08:30 AM
I don't really know if this should go here but I feel it should as it's into the calibration but I have no tools to use but my eye to calibrate using some images. (using a image lcd calibration pack called "Lagom-lcd-test" and something called "reference calibrator 1280x720" made by Mark Sydow for brightness and contrast(Mark's images were better/easier to work whit than the comparing ones in the lagom pack)

I have a LG L245WP-BN LCD 24" 1920x1200 HDMI computer monitor that can do 60hz, 50hz, 25i and 30i at 1920x1080p 1:1 whit black bars to the native 1920x1200. 1920x1200 only works in 60hz.

I use this screen as my main movie watching screen. There are 2 modes that the screen can be in, one being the PC mode and the other the Video mode.

I have tried to "eyeball calibrate" it as good as I can using the standard settings in the monitor menu in PC mode. They being Contrast, Brightness, Red, Green and Blue and then also using CCC(ATi catalyst control center) Color settings to adjust contrast and Brightness on there as well for little extra more tweak.
The Brightness setting only adjusts the back-lighting in PC mode on the monitor controls. It works a little different in Video mode I've seen. But the controls are different overall there anyway.

I use the 1920x1080 50hz when watching stuff, 24p stuff included(using Reclock to speed-up to 25hz)

Though I found and saw a issue whit the black level in PC mode 1920x1080 50hz, 0 black isn't as black as the black bars at the top off the screen and bottom. CCC settings won't give me as black no matter where I slide contrast or brightness messing everything up included as the black bars where nothing is actually displayed.

When in 60hz 1920x1080 I can get the 0 black to have as black as the black bar whit ease. The 1920x1200 60hz looks to be the same result as whit 1920x1080 60hz but can't be sure as I can't get a area whit "nothing" displayed on when screen is fully used in native resolution.

Well I can actually get the empty PiP(Picture in Picture) screen into the screen but that thing is even "more black than the black I have black at in 1080p 60hz and 1200p 60hz"

What is the problem really? I'm mainly right now concerned whit the 1080p 50hz setting not giving me that same black as the black bars, it's something I more easily spot.
I reckon it's something to do whit colour profiles maybe? CCC using 2 sligthly diffrent ones or such for the 60hz and 50hz? But switching between the 2 whit exact same CCC and monitor settings I only notice the diffrence at the black side where 50hz isn't as black or dark, it looks the same otherwise(it doesn't deviate all that much and can only really be spotted whit the black)

I've read that AMD/ATi usually mess whit the black levels constantly in their drivers, this something I should take up whit them instead? For them to correct in the drivers?

And a question about the "blackest black" I seem to get when turning up the PiP picture into the screen in that window, can I get as good black like that without any calibration tool? Or is is a full requirement if I want to mess whit the eventual color profile my computer uses to "tweak it" to match the PiP picture whit no input into it.

I found some more setting sin CCC. Hue and Saturation, should I tweak these also? But I seem not to have any good "picture" to test it whit but maybe just set them to preference how correct or incorrect that might put that into.

And then final question about the Brightness and Contrast settings in CCC. Should I leave them be as much as I can and do as much as I can in the monitor settings first. Currently I kinda "tried diffrent" contrasts in the monitor setting and then also tweaked it in CCC switching around both after each other. I seeminly got "better" contrast ratio from black to white than just doing it in the monitor and minimally/not touching it in CCC but I get the feeling it isn't correct. the White falls really fast into white in the 253-255 range.
Kinda can describe it like white-gray walks along straight but just a little downward and then suddenly falls off a cliff edge at 252 to start accelerate into the white abyss off 255.

Doug Blackburn
09-17-09, 03:40 AM
The only controls on the TV that will control black are Brightness, Backlight, and maybe turning on the Room Light Sensor (some TVs have this, some do not).

The Backlight should be low for good black, but that will make White darker also so you may have to increase Contrast - you can only tell when Contrast is set correctly if you have a meter - using your eye, all you can do for white (contrast control) is set the Contrast control so you do not have eye-strain when you watch TV in a dark room.

Some room light sensors will make black too light - and there may be other bad settings like Dynamic Contrast or other "Dynamic" or "Automatic" controls that should all be off.

If the TV is doing the right things and the settings are good, computer video can be difficult to get right with movies. You should look for owner forums for your video system to see if there are settings that will help for movies.

There is also the question of computer video (0-255) and consumer video as used in movies (16-235) - if the computer or TV are not set for the same values, you can have problems with black level.

Nighthog
09-18-09, 06:25 AM
This isn't a TV. It's a computer monitor which has a secondary purpose to be possible to act somewhat like a tv in it's video mode, a budget TV in that case. (a computer monitor which was designed so you might plug in your game consoles into it also, not really meant for straight tv watching, but it's possible if you have external speakers and some box whit remote in which you switch channels as this has no built in tuner)
But i use it as a computer monitor anyway.
Though I watch all my own movies and series on it though. It's better than all the older CRT TV screens we have in the house (though some of them are bigger though but I like the picture best on my computer monitor) The CRT's are mostly cheaper variants whit "black" looking gray and I don't watch TV shows mindlessly on whatever might be on etc. I find what I want to look and fetch it.

Well I figure the problem whit 50hz just needs/could to be solved with tweaking the contrast and brightness some more, though I feel it should have not been needed.
If I set the contrast brightness and all now different for the 50hz. It won't look close to the same I have it in 60hz(currently exactly same settings for both, picture looks identical but the slight deviance in the black for the 50hz setting, would say 95% picture match between the two, but I would have liked a 100% match as that should be possible(well to my eyes at least, not sure what any calibration tool would want to say about that statement).)
You don't want the image to change depending on what refresh rate you run it in! You want the image as close to identical across whatever refresh and resolutions you set it into!

about the colours for movies etc. I have that all worked as good as it can whit correct settings in players etc to expand into 0-255 range all content whit best quality setting conversions my computer could handle.

I might figure I may go to the ATi support forums and their driver feed back and mention this difference in black levels for the 60hz and 50hz settings, if that now is the problem though.But I feel that is where my problem should be fixed and is. I might try some other catalyst versions if they have messed whit it earlier or broken it in the progress somewhere. As mentioned earlier, they have messed whit black levels consistently for their drivers, breaking and fixing it as they go forward. In my case it seems their 50hz 1920x1080 is not dark enough here.

Ah... calibrating is "fun" on a computer which so many variables that can mess whit the picture.

But better check all resolutions and refresh rates on the computer if I will go to ATi. So I can mention all eventual differences in one go.

What I can figure it's not a fault whit the monitor but that the graphics card sends out the picture whit slightly different "colour profiles" depending on what resolutions or refresh rates you choose.
I figure this could also have been fixed if I had some tools whit which to create my own custom colour profiles and specific for my own monitor. But I have none such things.
And it's good/better for Ati to know that their drivers don't create identical images for some reason depending on refresh&resolution so they might fix it.