Lots of people IN THIS DVD RECORDERS FORUM have been seeing strange channel behavior since the digital transition on June 12. Channels missing, two channels in same slot, etc.

Turns out the transition is transitioning again as transition problems make re-transition necessary for many stations.

Interesting info here. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32917495/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/)

some of them moved their digital signals from the UHF frequency band (channels 14 to 69) to VHF (channels 2 to 13). To most viewers, these channels are just different numbers on the remote. But as signals in the airwaves, they have very different characteristics. Of course no one would know this with those stupid 'virtual' channel numbers. Another NAB/FCC f**k up. Channel two is channel two, isn't it?? :rolleyes:Since then, at least 20 VHF stations have asked the Federal Communications Commission to move their digital signals back to UHF, and more would like to do so.Why? VHF has greater range. :confused:had the same problem with VHF stations when they were analog, but often suffered through it. They would get a poor, snowy picture and decent sound, and considered that good enough. Reminds me of certain forum members that 'whined' about (to the N'th degree) the supposed loss of their locals no doubt due the the above scenario. :rolleyes:TV consultant Peter Putman said a lot of reception problems for digital VHF channels can be attributed to the fact that VHF antennas need to be large.He means like the ones people use to have from back in thr 60's qnd 70's.

(Shouldn't this thread belong in the Reception or Techinical forum??)

At least by 2011, Canada will have all of this taken care of. :)

The problem, while legit, is being overstated in the press (and effectively, online). The message being put forward is that so many people are affected by this (again, legit) problem when the reality is that the number affected is relatively small. It surely isn't worth of the kind of over-the-top emotionalized and conspiracy-theory-like exhortations that the (again, legit) problem evoked.

Turns out the transition is transitioning again as transition problems make re-transition necessary for many stations.

Interesting info here. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32917495/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/)

The digital transitions (for both OTA and cable) have basically been unpleasant and at times a disaster, largely created by bean-counting technocrats and/or engineers who care nothing about anything other than what's possible; not what's intuitive, logical, simple, and/or enjoyable.

Your best solution is to just stop watching TV. :p

Sounds as more cheese is needed.

Quote:
Since then, at least 20 VHF stations have asked the Federal Communications Commission to move their digital signals back to UHF, and more would like to do so.

Why? VHF has greater range.

Ummm...no...UHF has the greater range and requires the antenna to not be as large...

(Shouldn't this thread belong in the Reception or Techinical forum??)

Yes it belongs in the HDTV Technical forum...

At least by 2011, Canada will have all of this taken care of.

And this is brought up why???

Rent tuners from who? A MSO?
Gee, another cash cow and you don't even have to be a cable subscriber.

Talk about a random comment...What are you talking about??? Who suggested "renting" anything??? Do you actually know what MSO even means???

Your best solution is to just stop watching TV.

Sounds as more cheese is needed.

Where are you getting these random comments from and why???

(Shouldn't this thread belong in the Reception or Techinical forum??)

A lot of these questions come up in this forum, though, as DVD recorders are often used to record OTA. wajo's just trying to be helpful.

Ummm...no...UHF has the greater range and requires the antenna to not be as large...



Actually VHF because of it's lower frequency and longer wavelength has the potential for longer range and along with that comes increased chance of ghosting/multipath although digital tuners handle this better than analog tuners did. If you're getting wide swings in signal strength it's a classic sign of multipath with digital.

You're right on your second point, UHF antennas have shorter elements and therefor can be smaller again due to it's higher frequency.
The easiest way to think of long distance reception or DX'ing is to think of AM vs FM. At night I can pick up clear channel AM stations from Nashville, Denver, Chicago etc. With FM, which is a higher freq, I'm lucky to get 100 miles unless conditions are right to cause skipping.
I agree since this subject effects DVDRs (for OTA people) it was nice of Wajo to put it here.

One of the problems is that crappy and cheap no-name flat panels of just 2 years ago have inferior DTV tuners that can't handle multipath or pickup signals on the edge.

Your best solution is to just stop watching TV. :p

Sounds as more cheese is needed.

Cheesus; ain't that the truth!

I actually don't watch much TV, but in all honesty must disclose that all the newfangled stuff like remote controls and color don't make TV any better than an episode of I Love Lucy or The Honeymooners ever was. :)

I remember watching Karel Capek's R U R on live TV in the early '50's in glorious B & W, but can't find a Google reference for the production.

UHF has the greater range and requires the antenna to not be as large.That completely blows your credibility. You best do some research on RF propagation. Lower frequency= longer wavelength/greater distance. Higher frequency=shorter wavelength/shorter distance. Ever wonder why one can listen to a AM radio station thousands of miles away and microwave communication is only line of sight?And this is brought up why???As stated, by 2011 (which is their transistional date) I'm sure our neighbors to the west (north for the rest of you) will of learned from our test run. And because it was fitting to do so.Talk about a random comment...What are you talking about???The post by Rammitinski commenting on CATV companies (if I remember correctly) I was referring to was deleted after I posted mine. Can't control someone changing their mind.Do you actually know what MSO even means?Yes, would you like me to explain it to you?Where are you getting these random comments from and why?From fallingwater's previous post.

Any other stupid remarks?

A lot of these questions come up in this forum, though, as DVD recorders are often used to record OTA. wajo's just trying to be helpful.His helpfulness is more than welcome, but the subject has been discussed in all the displays forums also, along with more disscussed in the Reception and Technical forums.

Just like the TVGOS subject. There are at least three separatethreads on the same subject with the only difference is one deals with a specific piece of equipment. It would be more benificial to everyone if they were combined, but some seem to think their device is unique, which it is not.

Kinda makes it hard to do a search and gather information with it spread out all over the place. ;)

Any other stupid remarks?

No...You've made enough for this thread as is...:rolleyes:

Kinda makes it hard to do a search and gather information with it spread out all over the place. ;)

The search function is global. It organizes the terms into a nice general collection, while the posts in individual forums can tailor the discussion to the specific devices. In this forum, digital tuning of channels is very relevant to DVD recorders, having been important to those who don't want to rent a PVR or TiVo. If he was discussing a Wii or plasma display calibration, I could see the point of "Shouldn't this be in..." but to limit specific devices to specific forums and no exceptions seems way too anal.

Not only that, these forums often have their own little subsets that don't venture out to the other forums here. So there is bound to be a bit of repeated information. The extra discussions really don't hurt anything. It's not like we're immensely cluttered here.

No...You've made enough for this thread as is...:rolleyes:I wonder if his audio knowledge is as unimformed as his RF knowledge. Cymbols don't travel further than bass drum frequencies.
Don't let the door hit you on your way out!

The digital transitions (for both OTA and cable) have basically been unpleasant and at times a disaster, largely created by bean-counting technocrats and/or engineers who care nothing about anything other than what's possible; not what's intuitive, logical, simple, and/or enjoyable.

Your best solution is to just stop watching TV. :p

Sounds as more cheese is needed.

Cheesus; ain't that the truth!

I actually don't watch much TV, but in all honesty must disclose that all the newfangled stuff like remote controls and color don't make TV any better than an episode of I Love Lucy or The Honeymooners ever was. :)

I remember watching Karel Capek's R U R on live TV in the early '50's in glorious B & W, but can't find a Google reference for the production.

Sometimes info can't be accessed from Google.

A comprehensive article on the Golden Age of Television Dramas contains not a word about a production of Capek's R U R.
http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/G/htmlG/goldenage/goldenage.htm

Peripheral links derived from shows listed in the article came up with Dorothy Hart:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0366253/
Her Filmography's item #9, hits the jackpot:
"Broadway Television Theatre" (1 episode, 1953)
- R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots) (1953) TV episode

More about Broadway Television Theater:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044243/maindetails

The series' Episode List:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044243/episodes
Season 2, Episode 22: R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots)
Original Air Date—9 February 1953
WOR-TV (ch. 9) is listed as the production company.

---
While WOR-TV's transmitter was atop the Empire State Building as were all NYC TV stations, its affiliated WOR-AM transmitter was in Carteret NJ, about two miles from where I lived. At that distance WOR's 50KW signal was extremely strong and was the only station the first crystal set I built could receive!

WOR, besides Rambling with Gambling, featured evening radio dramas and at midnight, Long John Nebel's tales of Flying Saucer contactees and the Shaver Mystery's Deros underworld, reachable only through a mysterious NYC skyscraper's elevator.
'Who knows what evil lurks...' :eek:

I think he was referring to searching within these forums. My point is, a single thread for a common feature, whether it be tuning digital channels or TVGOS. While there might be slight difference between manufactures and models, the basic subject is the same.

If it's that big a bother, PM a mod. They'll merge the threads if necessary.

They do it all the time in the DVD forum, where twenty threads about the Dark Knight or whatever get condensed.

The post by Rammitinski commenting on CATV companies (if I remember correctly) I was referring to was deleted after I posted mine. Can't control someone changing their mind.Actually, it wasn't a matter of "changing my mind" It was of "catching my mistake". I originally thought that you were talking about cable. When I quickly realized you weren't, I deleted it (it wasn't even up for more than a minute or two, and I figured hardly anyone would've even seen it).

I thought you'd probably figure that out and erase your follow up right away, too (because it made no sense then), but apparently you didn't catch on, or you were gone by that time.

My point is, a single thread for a common feature, whether it be tuning digital channels or TVGOS. While there might be slight difference between manufactures and models, the basic subject is the same.Depends on what the specific TVGOS question is. There are differences between the versions, although not really any much if any between the same versions in different models. The difference between v7 and v8/v9 can be pretty big - like in the way v7 only has a limited amount of memory for channels in the guide, and v8/v9 doesn't, for example.

What uses TVGOS v9? TVs only?

Also the Panasonic EH55, EH75, and the last Toshiba HDD/DVD recorder with TVGOS (whatever the model number was). That's all I know of offhand.

A listing of devices with TVGOS and versions.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15882735#post15882735

I see that Toshiba recorder I mentioned isn't listed there. I'm 100% positive it existed, though (they also have older models with older versions of the guide).

I'll try to see if I can find any info on it online. I guess what you'd have to do first is find out the last model they made.

(edit: Wow - now that I really look at it, I see that list is woefully incomplete. There are also various Pioneer and Sony DVD/HDD recorders that had TVGOS that aren't listed. Not to mention all the old VCR's and TV's that had earlier versions of it, like "Guide+ Gold" and "Guide + Silver". I think it'd be like a full-time job researching it, though - so I'm not volunteering.)

Hey, cool! I realize this may not be the proper place post this, but my AT&T home page just informed me that some Sanyo LCD's sold at Wal-Mart have TVGOS!

Yes bwall23 has only been updating the OP as people make him aware. I've PM'd him with everything I know about TVGOS devices(mostly Panny DVDRs and newer Sony LCDs).
Nice to see newer TVs are still coming out with TVGOS. Hopefully it means at least the digital version will be around for a while.

apparently you didn't catch on, or you were gone by that time.I only cought it when a ceratin whiner brought it to my attention. The comment did seem a little odd, but unlike others, I sort of figured it out.

In case you haven't figured it out; Wine (whine) with cheese......... ;)

Other than Sony, and a limited version of 'TVGOS Daily' from Mits, what other manufactures have TVGOS now?

A really huge mistake of Panasonic with their current lineup of DVD players/recorders.

Your best solution is to just stop watching TV. :p

Sounds as more cheese is needed.

In case you haven't figured it out; Wine (whine) with cheese......... ;)OK, now I finally get it. You did have me scratching my head for a while.

Thaks ok, it was done purposely. ;)