I see the three HD camcorders are all $499 @ Tiger:

SAMSUNG HMX-R10BN (Flash)
Canon VIXIA HF100 (Flash)
Canon HG10 (40 GB HDD)

Doing the comparrison, they all seem pretty similar feature wise. The difference between HDD & Flash is moot because I never tape in more than 15-20 minute bursts (gymnastics, marching band competitions, vacation, etc). In fact, I almost prefer flash beacuse working in IT, I know how spinning disk can decide to seize up on occasion. :-)

The biggest differences I see (between the 2 flash options) are:

Sammy HMX-R10BN:
4000 x 3000 image resolution
5x Optical Zoom
No digital zoom mentioned (8x "smart" zoom ??)
230,000 pixels
weight 8.2 oz.
12 month warranty
no card included
Format: AVI

Canon HF100:
1920 x 1080 image resolution
12x Optical Zoom
200x digital zoom
211,000 pixels
weight: 13.4 oz.
3 month warranty (refurbished)
Format: AVCHD

Anyone have experience with either? I know there is a lot of chatter about the Cannon line, but any opinions you guys can share about any of these three - or other options that can be had for around $500...

I have the HG10, great camcorder, But I would get the HF100 Flash based..No HD and a 32Gig SDHC card will give you nearly 4 hours of HD footage...It has a better zoom and a bit smaller than the HG10, I really like my HG10 as well as my HG21 both are HD based camcorders which have never given me any issues, but for my video needs the more space the better....

samsung is not .AVI, samsung is .mp4 with h.264 inside, virtually same as AVCHD...Intellizoom captures 5.1 mil pixels and scales them digitally to 2 mil for final FullHD frame, Canon calls this TeleC I think...sensor is pretty big 1/2.33", but optics are certainly worse than Canon's...:D advantage is that it's a true hybrid 9 mpels for photos...is photos are important to you...

These are refurbs.

I bought a refurb HG10 from Amazon ... for $399.00 ... looks like its still available at that price.

IMHO ... HG10 at $399 is a better deal than a refurb HF100 for $100 more. Save and spend it on a real DSLR-based camcorder when they come down in price in the next few months.

These are refurbs.

I bought a refurb HG10 from Amazon ... for $399.00 ... looks like its still available at that price.

IMHO ... HG10 at $399 is a better deal than a refurb HF100 for $100 more. Save and spend it on a real DSLR-based camcorder when they come down in price in the next few months.

Has anyone had any experiences with HDD issues with the refurb cameras?

Has anyone had any experiences with HDD issues with the refurb cameras?

Not that I know of. Mine works fine. Others have had their HDD drive-based ones work for years. Remember that HDD on a camcorder logs lot less hours than, say, a HDD on a laptop or a PC. And these HDD can take a beating. Folks have dropped their cams and the HDD still work fine.

But the bottom line is that a HG10 or a HF100 or a HF1000 (assuming its in the pipeline) ... incl. the Sony/JVC/Panasonic etc. flavors ... all suffer from the same constraint ... a very tiny sensor. A DSLR camcorder capable of 1080/60p is going to be in a affordable price range very soon. At that time ... dump the current gear and jump ship. Thats the reason why I am advising against investing a whole lot on a HD camcorder at this time.

To be completely honest, I'd go with the HF10. HDD based camcorders seem to be phasing out. Regardless, I'd definitely not go with the Samsung.

To be completely honest, I'd go with the HF10. HDD based camcorders seem to be phasing out. Regardless, I'd definitely not go with the Samsung.
If it was not for the large cmos, superb battery life and the viewfinder on the HG10 ... I would have gone with the HF10. Video Quality wise the HF10 is graded slightly better than the HG10. Thats relatively speaking - both suck bad compared to a DSLR cam.

check out circuitcity.com with bing cash back - it can be worth it for the purchase.

Don't worry about the lack of internal memory on the HF100. New SDHC cards can transfer faster when connected directly to a PC (My HF10 gets 6mb/s) and have the advantage of being swapable, etc.

A DSLR camcorder capable of 1080/60p is going to be in a affordable price range very soon. At that time ... dump the current gear and jump ship. Thats the reason why I am advising against investing a whole lot on a HD camcorder at this time.

So I just bought a HF10 two weeks ago, and now I read this. Google isn't very helpful I just find bags that fit both. Can you point me in the right direction? How long would I have to wait and spend? I'm <500$ at the moment.

How long would I have to wait and spend? I'm <500$ at the moment.

The Pentax K-x (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09091703pentaxkx.asp) is already available in the $500 range ... but it only does 720p@24fps. But ... I say, in about 6-12 months you should see 1080p@30fps in that price range.

I have an HG10. I like it. It takes great video and has an excellent antivibration system but getting the files out of the HD and into the computer is a pain in the ass. When I bought it two years ago it was to get away from tape. Today, any camcorder I considered would have to have removeable storage. I have a Sanyo HD2000 in addition to the Canon HG10. It is so much easier to just pull the SDHC card out and stick it in the card reader and copy the files to the computer.

Anyone film indoor / outdoor sporting events? I am shopping around because I am looking to improve the picture quality of my current 5 year old Mini-DV camcorder for things like indoor gymnastics meets and outdoor high school football & halftime shows...

Anyone film indoor / outdoor sporting events? I am shopping around because I am looking to improve the picture quality of my current 5 year old Mini-DV camcorder for things like indoor gymnastics meets and outdoor high school football & halftime shows...

Almost all the videos I uploaded to youtube are in HD with the HG10 ...

This one for example ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P87UXaRtGXw

The HG10 is currently $399 @ Tiger Direct. If you shop through bing.com, you can get 5% cash back from Bing...

Not that I know of. Mine works fine. Others have had their HDD drive-based ones work for years. Remember that HDD on a camcorder logs lot less hours than, say, a HDD on a laptop or a PC. And these HDD can take a beating. Folks have dropped their cams and the HDD still work fine.


I have a few problems with HDD. While they are better than ever, they certainly can be the weakest part of the camera... people do kill them with a drop. When they're full, you're done, unless you have a hybrid model with some alternate bit of storage. And HDDs don't generally work above 9500ft... not a problem for some, but don't take it backpacking in the Rockies (where my HDV camcorder worked just dandy... though today, I'd take a flash-based model).


But the bottom line is that a HG10 or a HF100 or a HF1000 (assuming its in the pipeline) ... incl. the Sony/JVC/Panasonic etc. flavors ... all suffer from the same constraint ... a very tiny sensor. A DSLR camcorder capable of 1080/60p is going to be in a affordable price range very soon. At that time ... dump the current gear and jump ship. Thats the reason why I am advising against investing a whole lot on a HD camcorder at this time.

To date, while the DSLRs with video do offer a spectacular picture, none of them are very good general purpose camcorders, for a variety of reasons: lack of autofocus during video, limited recording time, etc. This will certainly improve.

But I'll wager that someone solves it from the other side of things... with the price of DSLRs dropping, it can't be that long before someone puts one of those APS-sized sensors into an otherwise normally usable video camera. That will proceed to blow away much of the competition, at least based on quality (optics and size become more of an issue there).

Another reason to wait before going for a very serious new flash camera... this years' models (except Sony, anyway) use SDHC cards, which have 4GB file limits based on FAT32, and have a 32GB spec limit (arbitrary, but it's there). Next year's models (except Sony) will use SDXC cards, with the exFAT file system and no 4GB limits. This is why I picked up a relatively cheap Sanyo VPC-FH1 to add to my collection of HD camcorders, rather than the Panasonic TM300/350 or Canon S10/11. At that price, I can think of buying another next year.

It is, of course, true that, as soon as you invest in something new, something far better will replace it overnight. That never changes. But it's useful to look for obvious big changes like these both (potentially... the flash memory thing is Real Soon Now, probably next CES).

I have a few problems with HDD. While they are better than ever, they certainly can be the weakest part of the camera... people do kill them with a drop. When they're full, you're done, unless you have a hybrid model with some alternate bit of storage. And HDDs don't generally work above 9500ft... not a problem for some, but don't take it backpacking in the Rockies (where my HDV camcorder worked just dandy... though today, I'd take a flash-based model).



To date, while the DSLRs with video do offer a spectacular picture, none of them are very good general purpose camcorders, for a variety of reasons: lack of autofocus during video, limited recording time, etc. This will certainly improve.

But I'll wager that someone solves it from the other side of things... with the price of DSLRs dropping, it can't be that long before someone puts one of those APS-sized sensors into an otherwise normally usable video camera. That will proceed to blow away much of the competition, at least based on quality (optics and size become more of an issue there).

Another reason to wait before going for a very serious new flash camera... this years' models (except Sony, anyway) use SDHC cards, which have 4GB file limits based on FAT32, and have a 32GB spec limit (arbitrary, but it's there). Next year's models (except Sony) will use SDXC cards, with the exFAT file system and no 4GB limits. This is why I picked up a relatively cheap Sanyo VPC-FH1 to add to my collection of HD camcorders, rather than the Panasonic TM300/350 or Canon S10/11. At that price, I can think of buying another next year.

It is, of course, true that, as soon as you invest in something new, something far better will replace it overnight. That never changes. But it's useful to look for obvious big changes like these both (potentially... the flash memory thing is Real Soon Now, probably next CES).



Im dumb here what do you mean by 4 gig file limit. Say i have a 32 gig card i cannot save 32 gigs or each file can only be 4 gigs?

Im dumb here what do you mean by 4 gig file limit. Say i have a 32 gig card i cannot save 32 gigs or each file can only be 4 gigs?

Each file. The 4gb limit is in relation to what the operating system on the computer you are using to process the video can handle as a max file size...

I have a few problems with HDD. While they are better than ever, they certainly can be the weakest part of the camera... people do kill them with a drop. When they're full, you're done, unless you have a hybrid model with some alternate bit of storage. And HDDs don't generally work above 9500ft... not a problem for some, but don't take it backpacking in the Rockies (where my HDV camcorder worked just dandy... though today, I'd take a flash-based model).


Till the tape transport freezes up or the tape gets brittle due to the cold;-).

All the HG series have an SDHC card slot, so if one can pick one up cheaply...

Prefer chip based storage aswell. But since you stress obsoleteness, buying short-term, an HDD model at four or five hundred might make sense. Same budget as the Sanyo 2000, but it allows one to wait for a great deal on flash card.

Each file. The 4gb limit is in relation to what the operating system on the computer you are using to process the video can handle as a max file size...

That's about 23 minutes between hitting the record and stop button.

Next year's models (except Sony) will use SDXC cards, with the exFAT file system and no 4GB limits. This is why I picked up a relatively cheap Sanyo VPC-FH1 to add to my collection of HD camcorders, rather than the Panasonic TM300/350 or Canon S10/11. At that price, I can think of buying another next year.

I hold the same strategic view.