I am trying to start up a video announcement group at my middle school. We are using iMacs for the editing. I don't know their specs off the top of my head but they are a least a year old.

Anyways I am looking to buy a camcorder to use to film activities such as football games, choir concerts etc. So lighting for indoor and outdoor is needed. HD is not necessary especially if it is going to complicate things for the kids.

I have a Panny PV-gs300 that seems to work great, should I just pick up a gs320? Are 3CCD cameras obsolete compared to the huge 1CCD cameras now?


What type of recording media should I want? HDD, Flash, MiniDV. (my buddy has my camera with the miniDVD and he hates it so I am staying away from DVD)

I have about $500 dollars to spend

Thanks

I would get an AVCHD camcorder. iMovie '08 and '09 handles them just fine. You do need Leopard or Snow Leopard OSX. But HD is definitely worth it.
Sony HDR-XR500v.

I concur. Definitely get a AVDHD camera. I'm using iMovie09 on my iMac and Macbook Pro. Shooting in AVCHD using SDHC memory thru a card reader makes for an efficient system to import, edit and export and then stream through iTunes or burn the AVCHD to a BR or DVD at full resolution. I'm using a Canon HF-S100 cam which is stunning in good light.

Canon HF-20
i use it with FCS-2/3
it work fine with iMovie '08 & '09

The HDR XR500V is a great camcorder, but as far as I can find, it is at least $250 over the $500 budget. For a Sony camcorder you will, O think, have to make some compromises to get AVCHD for $500. Such as the $499 HDR CX100. A small (1/5 inch) sensor, only 10x zoom and no optical image stabilization.

You should be able to pick up a refurbished Canon, like an HF200 for under $500, and get a slightly larger sensor (1/4 inch), 15x zoom, and optical image stabilization. Just keep an eye out and refurbs pop up periodically.

As you recognize, your other option is SD. They are typically available with much longer optical zooms, so if the children can use a tripod, the extra zoom (30x or more) is a big advantage for capturing the "up close and personal" aspect of sporting events and concerts.

Another benefit of SD is in the editing. iMovie and your iMacs can handle SD pretty easily. The biggest issue will be that it will strip out every other line from the interlaced video, so the image quality will be diminished. There are workarounds using other programs to convert the video from interlaced to progressive, but it sounds like you don't really need that trouble. You can read about it in more detail on the iMovie forum at Apple.com.

In comparison, there are several issues with AVCHD and the Mac. Reading an AVCHD file into a Mac can take a while, depending upon the cpu. iMovie or Final Cut Express can't work with AVCHD files directly. They have to convert them to Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC), and that can take a while (I've used an 8 core 2.8 gHz Mac Pro to import about 10 minutes of AVCHD video, and it took about 25 minutes...so you can guess what it would take on even a Core 2 duo iMac). Also, AIC is 10-15x larger than AVCHD, so a 5 gig file on the camcorder will blow up to ca. 50-75 gig on the computer when it is imported! If you have 20 students, each with one video of this size, that is 1-1.5 Terabytes of storage space. Then you have to decide on how you export the video. I will defer to Coolrda if he explains how he exports AVCHD from iMovie, but as I understand things it is not simple to do that without either losing quality or using other programs and extra steps. As I understand things, if the HD video is interlaced (as almost all 1080/60 camcorders are), iMovie will strip out every other video line and it will lose image quality just like interlaced SD files do (but still look better than the stripped-out SD). Like SD, you can avoid that problem with extra steps and other programs in the export. Whatevery happens, exporting back to AVCHD will require another conversion back from AIC to AVCHD. I see about an even split between people online who claim the two way conversion from AVCHD to AIC and back to AVCHD results in a material loss of video quality, and those who say it is negligible. Again, maybe this is something that Coolrda can expand upon.

As for recording medium, my vote is solid state memory cards for robustness and speed. Remember MiniDV will import in real time. So a 1 hr video will take 1 hr to import to the computer. You already know about DVD. Hard drive is large and fast, but can have problems when the camcorder is jostled. I even got advice from someone who claimed that when he used a hard drive camcorder to record his rock band perform, that the hard drive would sometimes have issues with very loud bass drum hits. With memory cards, each student can have their own and it provides capacity only limited by your budget. If you buy a high quality, $350 SD camcorder, you can use the extra $150 to buy a great deal of SDHC capacity.


I concur. Definitely get a AVDHD camera. I'm using iMovie09 on my iMac and Macbook Pro. Shooting in AVCHD using SDHC memory thru a card reader makes for an efficient system to import, edit and export and then stream through iTunes or burn the AVCHD to a BR or DVD at full resolution. I'm using a Canon HF-S100 cam which is stunning in good light.

Coolrda, can you provide more detail on how you import AVCHD into iMovie, edit it, and then burn the edited video as AVCHD to a Blue Ray disc or a DVD? I'm sure that it would help the OP, and I would love to find out that I misunderstand the issues around AVCHD and Macs.

I am trying to start up a video announcement group at my middle school. We are using iMacs for the editing. I don't know their specs off the top of my head but they are a least a year old.

Anyways I am looking to buy a camcorder to use to film activities such as football games, choir concerts etc. So lighting for indoor and outdoor is needed. HD is not necessary especially if it is going to complicate things for the kids.

I have a Panny PV-gs300 that seems to work great, should I just pick up a gs320? Are 3CCD cameras obsolete compared to the huge 1CCD cameras now?


What type of recording media should I want? HDD, Flash, MiniDV. (my buddy has my camera with the miniDVD and he hates it so I am staying away from DVD)

I have about $500 dollars to spend

Thanks

Given that your budget is $ 500; consider this:

No HDD hi-def camcorder is going to fit your budget; you will need SD cards (most likely_; 2 X 16 Gig cards will cost you about $ 70 or a 32 GB about $ 80. Most stock batteries will not last beyond an hour so keep $ 80-100 for a battery.

You may want to consider the Sanyo VPC-FH1A; it is MP4 which works fine with most older computerss (AVCHD is more CPU hogging). I got my FH1A from Frys for $ 449. The stock battery lasts a couple of hours recording with the LCD open.

Apple sells it: http://store.apple.com/us/product/TX058LL/A

Amazon reviews: (FH1 is the older model; FH1A is the later one with iFrame support; no other difference); see the ratings: http://www.amazon.com/Sanyo-VPC-FH1-Memory-Camcorder-advance/dp/B001Q3M9PY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1259210632&sr=8-1

Best value camcorder for 2009 select awards; Camcorderinfo: http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Camcorderinfo-com-Select-Awards-2009-37268.htm#

Considering your needs; this is a good camcorder. Don't sweat if someone tells you that the FH1 has electronic image stabilization (no OIS) - use a tripod or a monopod. I purchased this after actually hands-on testing with the Canon HF200, Sony XR200 and JVC HM200. I also tested the Canon HF S100, Panasonic TM300 and Sony XR500/ 520 in-store. I loved the Sonys but the FH1 provides much better value and better PQ than the HF200, HF S100, TM300 & XR200. The FH1 had the second best lowlight performance after the Sony CX/ XR 500/ 520 (the Sonys cost at least a grand)

You will be able to compare camera test sample & spec comparison at http://camcorder-test.slashcam.com/

Also search for FH1 sample videos shot by users on www.vimeo.com

Don't worry about the editing side too much. About all that really matters is the speed / efficiency of the computer "IF" you want to playback in realtime UNedited. There's tons of mostly functional editing software out there. Get whatever camcorder fits your needs and your budget. They're roughly the same on the backend. Baring something fancy with some "new" codec never heard of before. AVCHD is several years old now. As long as your computers and editing software is younger than it, you should be okay. If not, i.e. you're still on Win95, have issues with SD playback, or other things, you're in trouble with HD.

Along those lines. You might give SD video a try. HD requires a lot of TIME to process and a lot of SPACE to store. 4GB for every 20 minutes of footage or less. X3, original, temp work file, final result. And bluray authoring software is still kind of in it's infancy. Not to mention outrageous bluray licensing issues. And the backend of SD video might help keep you on budget. Or at least in the constraints of a 1 hour class structure. Versus 4 hour classes at the university.

As far as recording medium. If you go flash, what's the likelihood of the kids walking off with the flash cards? And still being able to use them at home for non-school things. HDD might be a better option, tons of onboard capacity, so no brain farts of taking everything except the recordable media with you. Tape might also be advantageous, the ability to keep on chugging on the cheap. And a medium that most kids probably don't have any use for at home. Although some will.

Beyond that whatever camcorder works. FH1 is kind of nice for indoor stuff on the cheap. For that matter most P&S camera do decent in video, although not always perfect. The biggest issue with low light that I've seen is can the device focus in low light. The FH1 can, albeit a little sluggish. My Kodak Z1085-IS cannot focus in low light. It goes into a constant state of trying to focus. Sometimes you even have to slightly shake it to get it to RE-focus. But hey, it was slightly more than $100 for that thing.

I'm using a Canon HF-S100 cam which is stunning in good light.

yourrealdad also needs good indoor lighting; the HF S100 did a poor job under low light in my tests (washed out video, dark and noisy video; the HF S100 was actually darker than the HF200 under low light). Mind you I tried cine mode, spotlight, shutter as well as aperture priority; no change.

I have three Canon SLRs (2 DSLRs) & a variety of lenses; I love Canon products but their HF200 or HF S100 did not meet my needs of low light photography.

I'd also suggest looking at the sanyo. In my limited research before opting for an hd2000a, I found dealing with its mp4 files much easier than canon's mts files. If you don't specifically care about HD, then iframe does work as advertised--very quick ingestion and no intermediate rendering time. It edits and plays back nicely on my aging core duo MacBook. You still have the option of shooting full HD then if you want or need it...