I am in the market for a new HD solid state only camcorder (internal and/or SD) for home use only. The TM300 was the only one in my sights until I now see the Canon cameras getting a lot of good reviews. And now the Sony CX500 and CX520. Seems that color quality goes to Canon is most reviews... but I see that the Canon cameras do not have 5.1 audio like the TM300 and CX's. Is this just a gimmick and not very good from a single point mic or is it really a big asset in the TM300 & Sony's?

Anyone know anything about the S11? What does it have over the S10 other than more internal memory like the 520 over the 500?

I like the nightshot on Sony's (my last 2 have been Sony's)...

It appears that the TM300 is the only 3 CCD camcorder in the group?

If you never use manual settings the Sony might be a good choice. Best OIS and probably best full auto behaviour... I haven't tried it myself. Avoid harddisks, though!
I own a TM300 that I'm very happy with. It has both good point and shoot setting (iA) anf full manual control if you prefere that. Video quality is fantastic if you use a good editor. The in cam decoder is so and so when played back on a TV where you get some decoder artefacts and ugly oversharpening but this is of no importance as long as you plan to watch your videos on a computer/BD player.

Sony and TM300 both has a built in viewer, important in bright sun light.
The 5.1 audio is no gimmic. If you have a surround system (and an editing program that can handle it!) it's really nice. You get a quite good representation of the room where you recorded. Note that the TM300 has a built in small fan that can be heard on very quiet recordings. It's there to cool the sensors for less video noise btw.

TM300 has 3mos sensors not CCD's. It has the same problems with wobble etc as other CMOS cams but there are workarounds available if you want to stabilize in post etc...

Imho the only reason to choose Canon would be the 24Mbit/sec recording but I have yet to see any problems when recoring flowing water etc. with my 17 Mbit/sec TM300. All you get is larger files that has to be archived... In almost all other aspects Canon has less to offer.

I have a whoe bunch of TM300 videos on http://www.vimeo.com/user422709/videos . Some are shot in iA but most in manual modes. Note however that you get really low quality in the Vimeo online viewer. If you want to check videos from different cams you really should register on the site. Then you can often download exatly the file that was uploaded to Vimeo. On my full-HD TV 1080 resolution is clearly better compared to 720 versions on Vimeo.

Kenneth... thanks for the info... some very nice videos there! Were they all taken with the TM300?

I, too, dislike hard drive camcorders... Much prefer no moving parts and better battery life of solid state.

So, it appears that all three have some unique features:
- TM300: Only one with 3cmos, one of two with 5.1 audio
- CX500/CX520: Only one with NightShot IR mode, one of two with 5.1 audio
- S10/S11: Only one with 24mbps

Dislikes:
- CX500/CX520: No view finder, MemStick only/no SD support
- S10/S11: No view finder
- TM300: Only 32GB, no 64GB model like Sony/Canon

Did I miss anything above?

I did see some comparisons of the TM300 and the Canon and it showed vastly different colors in default mode samples... but all your videos look amazing... I think the view finder is a potential deal breaker... seems like it would give back the battery gains had by giving up the hard drive... having to have the large LCD on when shooting would suck up more power than a small view finder.

The successor to the TM300 is the TM350 and that camcorder has 64 gig of flash memory and it’s said to have an updated stabilizer. I don’t think it’s available in the US yet.

I think the Canon S11 also has an updated stabilizer.

Somebody should test the stabilizer on all of them.

Interesting... I see the 350 was released in Japan back in June... I find no info about when it will be in the US. Anyone know anything more? It seems like Canon and Sony have released their upgraded models... but not Panasonic.

Kenneth... thanks for the info... some very nice videos there! Were they all taken with the TM300?Thank's alot! They are tagged "TM300".

- CX500/CX520: No view finder, MemStick only/no SD supportTo me "Memory Stick" equals "Do not buy".

- TM300: Only 32GB, no 64GB model like Sony/Canon
Is this really a limitation? I tend to use SDRAM and internal memory is there just in case I would run out of card space. You might also want to compare 32 GB SDRAM price vs. the extra you have to pay for more internal RAM.

I did see some comparisons of the TM300 and the Canon and it showed vastly different colors in default mode samples... but all your videos look amazing...White balance is a delicate matter. The TM300 auto WB is a little too neutral for my taste. It's nice in bright sunshine but but if you shoot later in the afternoon video will still look like the same. If you check http://www.vimeo.com/4138145 at 4'30" I'm shooting right into the sun just above the roofs in the background and the colour tone is far too cold. From what I have seen Canon defaults to a slightly warmer tone, perhaps to get a more "filmic look".
My little "secret trick" is simply to set WB to "Cloudly" to get an "afternoon feeling" and keep the exposure down to get more rich colours. Both http://www.vimeo.com/6545769 and http://www.vimeo.com/6330235 where shot like that.
Note that I have not done any colour corrections at all in any of my online videos. The clips are simply stabilized in post and put together with Avisynth.

I think the view finder is a potential deal breaker... seems like it would give back the battery gains had by giving up the hard drive... having to have the large LCD on when shooting would suck up more power than a small view finder. I have read somewhere that the difference is not that significant. But, in addition to better visibility in bright light you also get more stabile shots if you use the viewfinder.

Hi guys, I am really undiceded between the canon HFS11 and the TM350.

What do u suggest ?

thank you

Do u think that the canon and panasonic can do better that the sony under these conditions or lower light conditons that we can see in the video below ?

http://www.motionbox.com/videos/7a9ed9b01818e5c4f5

Can ANY of these cameras do what the video above shows? That night video looks great!

Yes. See for instance HF-S11: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yuxbDtVFwE.
Note in the Sony example video it's not pitch dark which is why it's a little bit brighter.

That said to get similar low-light perf you'd have to use progressive mode and with cinemode you get a bit more details with very low noise (see comparison http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yuxbDtVFwE).

The best quality you'd get out of the Canon using 24p but note that comprises motion. See this video for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcM4Vm4hmN8

Regarding differences between S10 and S11:

- 64GB instead of 32GB internal memory (16GB SDHC is around $35 so not that important)
- New stabilization mode (big improvement in walking shots, checkout on youtube)
- New low-light nightscene mode (not that important since you could achieve it on S10 as well using proper manual settings).
- Optional remove control adapter

The 5.1 sound in my tests have poor seperation (but granted stereo seperation on most camcorders is also not that great). I'd prefer little bit more volume which Canon has and also adjustable recording volume (which is needed in loud recordings like concert).

Yes. See for instance HF-S11: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yuxbDtVFwE.
Note in the Sony example video it's not pitch dark which is why it's a little bit brighter.

That said to get similar low-light perf you'd have to use progressive mode and with cinemode you get a bit more details with very low noise (see comparison http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yuxbDtVFwE).

The best quality you'd get out of the Canon using 24p but note that comprises motion. See this video for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcM4Vm4hmN8

what about these :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7Z48HI29lo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8flIJaIrlJ8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFyKsuRF5o4&NR=1

Do u think that the canon is noisier than both sony and panasonic ?
Would u rate this video 1 lux ?
Thank you

I'm in the same boat as the guy who started the thread: trying to decide between the reigning Canon, Panasonic and Sony camcorders.

Given the examples shown below, and the NYC street scene, the Sony really seems to look best in low-light conditions. Or am I missing something?

what about these :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7Z48HI29lo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8flIJaIrlJ8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFyKsuRF5o4&NR=1

I'm also comparing Canon and Sony. I noticed something that nobody discussed, Sony HDR-CX520V has a 37mm filter diameter, and Canon Vixia S11 - 58mm. That's a hell of a difference. But does it mean anything, isn't it better if the lens is "bigger" ("wider"?) in Canon?:confused:

Regarding differences between S10 and S11:

- 64GB instead of 32GB internal memory (16GB SDHC is around $35 so not that important)
- New stabilization mode (big improvement in walking shots, checkout on youtube)
- New low-light nightscene mode (not that important since you could achieve it on S10 as well using proper manual settings).
- Optional remove control adapter

The 5.1 sound in my tests have poor seperation (but granted stereo seperation on most camcorders is also not that great). I'd prefer little bit more volume which Canon has and also adjustable recording volume (which is needed in loud recordings like concert).

Is the low light improvement on the S11 just a scene or did they do some fiddling with the firmware? I'm getting mixed information on this and am trying to get to the bottom of it.

If you compare the S10, s11 and tm350 on slashcam.com, they show a significant improvement on the S11 over the s10 at 12 lux. Any direct comparisons between the S10 and s11?

I'm also comparing Canon and Sony. I noticed something that nobody discussed, Sony HDR-CX520V has a 37mm filter diameter, and Canon Vixia S11 - 58mm. That's a hell of a difference. But does it mean anything, isn't it better if the lens is "bigger" ("wider"?) in Canon?:confused:

I'm guessing it's not a direct indication of quality or capability but more of an engineering form-factor decision. I think my Sony HC90 had a larger filter diameter and its picture (and video storage format) can't compare with the CX520V (I have a CX500V). The CXs are also meant to be very compact so having a bigger barrel to support a larger diameter doesn't match the design point.

You can probably use marketing spec sheets to check things like the focal lengths, zoom equivalents, etc. I know they're all listed on the Sony sheets, so they're probably on the Canons too.