I'm doing some research about DVD recorders for a friend. She likes to record her favorite cable tv shows to VHS tape for long-term archiving. She's had some trouble with VCRs recently... sometimes a VCR will record tapes that can't be viewed by another VCR without distortion in the image or sound. Apparently it goes out of alignment. I keep helping her find another VCR to replace a flaky one, but I was thinking---since VHS is dying (is it?), maybe it's time to switch to recordable DVD.

I record DVD+/-R on my computer, but it hasn't been perfectly reliable. I've used several brands of media: Sony, Memorex, Maxell. I've gone through several DVD-recorder internal drives as I upgrade or an old one seems to become unreliable. The problem is that many of my DVD+/-R discs can't be read anymore. Or they are flaky, working on some drives or DVD players, and not others.

If DVD+/-R is this flaky, it doesn't seem to be a really good idea for long-term archiving.

I'm sure this issue has come up before, so if you could just point me to an existing thread. Also, I would welcome suggestions for ways to reliable archive stuff long-term---should we keep trying to use VHS and look for a better-built player, or switch to DV, or what?

Thanks,
Mike

I'm doing some research about DVD recorders for a friend. She likes to record her favorite cable tv shows to VHS tape for long-term archiving. She's had some trouble with VCRs recently... sometimes a VCR will record tapes that can't be viewed by another VCR without distortion in the image or sound. Apparently it goes out of alignment. I keep helping her find another VCR to replace a flaky one, but I was thinking---since VHS is dying (is it?), maybe it's time to switch to recordable DVD.

I record DVD+/-R on my computer, but it hasn't been perfectly reliable. I've used several brands of media: Sony, Memorex, Maxell. I've gone through several DVD-recorder internal drives as I upgrade or an old one seems to become unreliable. The problem is that many of my DVD+/-R discs can't be read anymore. Or they are flaky, working on some drives or DVD players, and not others.

If DVD+/-R is this flaky, it doesn't seem to be a really good idea for long-term archiving.

I'm sure this issue has come up before, so if you could just point me to an existing thread. Also, I would welcome suggestions for ways to reliable archive stuff long-term---should we keep trying to use VHS and look for a better-built player, or switch to DV, or what?

Thanks,
Mike

Just scroll down the page, there are several semi active discussions about this subject.

But since you brought it up, I've got multiple flaky discs from multiple manufacturers. Right now, I've got a computer that needs to be wiped and windows reinstalled. The Sony +RW with the operating system is no longer readable. I am really wishing I'd saved an ISO to hard drive.

I've started saving my video to DIVX mirrored to two 1 TB hard drives and skipping archiving to DVD. When I pull 3-4 year old DVDs, it's a crap shoot whether they will play or not. I figure I'll have about 2000 hours when they are full.

Thanks, I'll check out the discussions. But my question is more general than "which brands/recorder combinations are best?" (The title of my thread is a bit misleading, sorry about that.) I'm wondering if it's a good idea, under any circumstances, to treat DVD+-R as a viable long-term archival media. Given the problems I've seen discussed here, and my own problems, it would seem the answer is "No."

And also, if VHS is dying, what would be a superior media for archiving? My friend can't use a computer for this, so it would have to be a stand-alone player of some sort.

Thanks,
Mike

I'm doing some research about DVD recorders for a friend. She likes to record her favorite cable tv shows to VHS tape for long-term archiving. She's had some trouble with VCRs recently... sometimes a VCR will record tapes that can't be viewed by another VCR without distortion in the image or sound. Apparently it goes out of alignment. I keep helping her find another VCR to replace a flaky one, but I was thinking---since VHS is dying (is it?), maybe it's time to switch to recordable DVD.

I record DVD+/-R on my computer, but it hasn't been perfectly reliable. I've used several brands of media: Sony, Memorex, Maxell. I've gone through several DVD-recorder internal drives as I upgrade or an old one seems to become unreliable. The problem is that many of my DVD+/-R discs can't be read anymore. Or they are flaky, working on some drives or DVD players, and not others.

If DVD+/-R is this flaky, it doesn't seem to be a really good idea for long-term archiving.

I'm sure this issue has come up before, so if you could just point me to an existing thread. Also, I would welcome suggestions for ways to reliable archive stuff long-term---should we keep trying to use VHS and look for a better-built player, or switch to DV, or what?

Thanks,
Mike
The H2160MW9 manual actually states certain brands, types, and speeds of DVDs that work best in that unit.

It seems it depends on the specific make and model of recorder as to which DVDs might work best.

Even with computers, in the past I was surprised at how some "off brands" of blank DVDs worked very well while some well known brand names didn't work well.

I'm not an expert, but from my experience it would seem that first you need to decide which brand/model of DVD recorder you are going to get first, then research online what brands/types of DVDs works best in that model (if the manual does not specify it already).

Just my 2 cents worth :-)

For archival work I've settled upon Taiyo Yuden Premium Line 8x DVD-R media for use in my (two) Philips, (five) Magnavox and (fifteen) Panasonic recorders. TY media may be purchased here:

http://www.supermediastore.com/taiyo-yuden-silver-thermal-8x-dvd-r-media-100-pack.html

Since purchasing my first Panasonic DMR-ES30V in September 2005 I've home-recorded around 5,000 DVDs. For best results with Panasonics avoid using the "+" formats.

For stand alone DVD Recorders avoid the inferior 16x formulations found in retail stores. The 8x formulations are less demanding upon laser assemblies:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12298494&postcount=20

Some satisfactory Sony, Maxell and Verbatim formulations may still be found. Most other "name brand" media are inferior in quality to the "name brand" media of just a few years ago.

In late 2006 I made a mistake in purchasing a spindle of Memorex media. I found one in every six Memorex discs failed during recording or finalizing in my several Panasonics. When older TDK media was substituted these problems disappeared. In earlier days TDK made their own high quality media. Later TDK DVD-R discs are the same as Memorex DVD-R discs, CMC MAG. AM3, not good.

I use T-Y premium 8x DVD-R also. I also back up everything via my computer to an external hard disk. If I want to save the DVD intact, I simply copy the VIDEO_TS folder from the DVD into a suitably named folder on the hard disk. If the DVD contains syndicated TV show reruns that I want to put into original chronological sequence later, I extract individual titles (episodes) into separate MPEG-2 files and put them in a folder for the series, with subfolders for each season.

1-TB external hard disks at around $100 have a per-GB cost comparable to 100-disk cakeboxes of T-Y premium 8x from online sources.

In the digital world, the best way to ensure data longevity is to make multiple copies, preferably on different types of media.

VHS is indeed dead, for better and worse. Your friend has had unusually bad luck with tapes, though: shes probably using a combination of poor quality blanks, known-flaky VCRs, or the LP or EP/SLP recording speeds. VHS recorded at SP on decent-quality tapes on known-good VCR brands can last a very, very long time and be broadly compatible for playback on many different VCRs. I've been recording to VHS since 1981, and my tapes from 28 years ago still fire up and play nicely on an assortment of VCRs. The only thing thats prone to drift really badly is the hifi stereo tracking: this is a universal problem with VHS hifi, they were never able to truly standardize how the hifi tracks were laid down on different VCRs. So you can almost always get decent image tracking and mono sound, but the stereo may have to be switched off.

All of that goes to hell with the LP or EP/SLP (4hr-6hr) speeds, however. If your friends is cramming four or six hours per tape, shes setting herself up for disappointment. The extended-play speeds were never all that compatible between VCRs, even of the same brand, and as the tapes age the compatibility becomes worse (SP ages better because it has more of a cushion against degradation errors). Also, if your friend has ever used VCRs made by JVC, that can be a big problem. JVCs are known to cause all sorts of weird tape issues, I gave up using them years ago when I discovered simply playing a tape in many JVCs can cause a permanent distortion of the image, very strange. If your friend wants to stick with VHS, get her a couple Panasonic or Quasar VCRs from the mid-1990s or a late-model Mitsubishi like the HS-448 or 449. They're all over Craigs List and eBay for $25-50 in mint condition. Many people also list their tape libraries after transferring them to DVD, you can pick up hundreds of good-quality TDK or Maxell tapes that were recorded on only once for free, simply by agreeing to come with your car and take them out of someones house.

But that cycles us back to the "VHS is dead" point. While tapes I recorded myself in 1981 or 1990 still play perfectly, I have noticed my pre-recorded Hollywood tapes don't fare so well. I often find my commercial studio tapes flaking oxide and mis-tracking. Granted, the studios used the cheapest junk tape stock they could buy, and our own tapes are almost always better, but it demonstrates tape does eventually decompose. I don't expect my 28 year old VHS to last more than another ten years, so I'm methodically copying everything to DVD-R.

Which brings us to the "is recordable DVD worth the plastic its made out of?" debate. Recordable DVD has had a far worse track record so far than recordable CD, which is odd because CD-R is a more fragile medium. Whatever the reason, recordable DVD very quickly became a junk commodity produced by only one or two conglomerates. Almost none of the famous media brands of old exists as anything but a shell name anymore. TDK, Maxell and especially Memorex are practically toxic. Store brands come from the same lousy factories. Sony's supplier has started selling the same junk, so they're off the "good" list now. The majority of DVD media now burns reasonably well in a PC burner, but very poorly in DVD recorders which use much slower, more picky optical drives. And even the stuff that seems to burn well in your PC can turn out to have been a borderline -lousy burn that drifts after a year or two in storage. People find this really hard to believe, but nearly all DVD media for sale in stores now is there strictly as loss-leader bait to get you into the store: no matter what the brand, most of it's below par. The eraseable RW stuff is a particularly bad risk for long-term storage.

The best bet is to use known-good media like DigaDo referenced. At this point, the best you can buy is Taiyo Yuden (TY) Premium 8x DVD-R and Verbatim DataLife 8x DVD-R. These use the older slower original Japanese dye formulation which is much easier to burn accurately, and are made under tighter quality control than stuff you see in stores.There are so few reports of these discs failing that its almost insignificant statistically. Data recorded to these two media should last at least 5-10 years, long enough to bridge us to the "next big thing" in digital media storage. Since DVDs are already digital, copying to the next storage format should be quick and uneventful. Thats the future most of us are banking on, meanwhile really precious DVDs can also be backed up to hard drives as additional insurance.

All of that goes to hell with the EP or SP (4hr-6hr) speeds, however. If your friends is cramming four or six hours per tape

I think you meant to say LP or EP(aka SLP), otherwise I agree with all you said. As you said, if a person used the 4 or 6 hr VHS speed or cheap no-name tapes(at one time Scotch had the reputation Memorex now does with DVDs) their bound for disappointment. My father did both sins and now his VHS tapes are basically landfill material.
I stuck to my guns with VHS and only used the 2hr SP speed along with HG or better brand name tapes. With DVDs I've cheapened to a the 3 hr speed(every once in a while I regret this for certain material) along with name brand(but probably too cheap) DVDs.
For whatever reason I had no problem spending 4-6 dollars(1980s dollars) for 2hrs of recording time, now I balk at spending more than 20 cents for 3hrs:rolleyes:
So far even my first recorded DVDs are playing fine as are my 1980 tapes(well the ones I've actually played lately:o)
If I were starting over with DVDs and I could easily buy Ty's locally I'd probably do that along with SP whenever possible. When I originally planned to convert my VHS to DVD I was under the false impression I could fit (2) 2hr VHS tapes to one DVD, after a few tapes I decided if one cared about PQ that wasn't really possible. Many of the newer movies I record are in excess of 2:20 so for those I'd have to use FR slower than SP and consider putting any extras on another DVD.

Oops! :o Thanks for catching that, jjeff- went back and fixed my post above. Damn alphabet soup we deal with in this hobby gets confusing sometimes.:D

Ya it sure does:D
Actually we have JVC to thank for the whole EP/SLP thing. As you know SP was the first speed but Matsushita (parent company of Panasonic and maker of most of the VHS VCRs in the early years) wanted a longer recording time. JVC the patent holder of VHS didn't want to sacrifice PQ for recording speed but did allow Matsushita to produce machines with the LP or 4hr recording speed.
JVC was getting trounced by consumers who desired longer recording speed over PQ so JVC came up with a 6hr speed and dedicated 2 separate heads to increase PQ, the early Matsushita machines used a compromised 2 head arrangement which suffered in SP picture quality but made the 4hr speed possible. IMO a JVC 6hr recording looked better than a Matsushita 4hr recording in fact I think the few SP/LP machines made were probably the worst picture quality VCRs made for many years.
I can't remember if their was ever a year when only JVC made the 6hr machines but for sure by the next year Matsushita was producing 2,4 and 6hr machines. AFAIK JVC never made a machine that recorded in LP(they'd play back LP(in an atrocious quality)but never recorded in the speed that they never wanted).
Back to my point, Matsushita's natural progression in speed was to call the 6hr recording speed SLP (or super long play) while JVC avoided the whole LP name and called the 6hr speed EP(for extended play).
SLP was the more common term years ago but I think in the later years more and more machines used term EP.

DVDRs even have different terms for recording speeds. Panasonic and I think most others use the term LP for the 4hr DVD recording speed and EP for the 6hr speed while Funai calls the 3hr recording speed LP, the 4hr speed is called EP and the 6hr is called SLP:eek:

In the digital world, the best way to ensure data longevity is to make multiple copies, preferably on different types of media.

SO true. TY Premium 8x discs go for about 30 cents a piece at Supermediastore. I figure that if something is worth copying to DVD in the first place, it's worth that much, versus, say, 17 cents or 20 cents or whatever the cheap media go for. And is it that big a deal to spend 60 cents and make two copies?

Of course, one has to factor in the wear and tear on the DVD recorder's burner, which is one of the reasons why I'm starting to think about investing in a simple 1-to-1 disc duplicator, as discussed in another thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17247027#post17247027).

And frankly, I view my recorded DVDs as simply a holding format until I dump everything onto a hardware based storage device......

She's using LP (6 hours/tape) so I bet that's the problem. Thanks for the help, everyone.

Mike

To the original poster:
Clean your heads. While playing problematic tapes try adjusting the tracking manually. Don’t use any recording speed other than SP!

-------
As mentioned by others, the slower (LP, EP/SLP) tape speeds tend to be more problematic. The reason is because the slower speeds use a narrower track width and if not perfectly aligned, the tape will mis-track in another VCR. Using anything but SP should be avoided.

Hi FI audio is laid using two separate rotary heads on the head drum and sometimes it may be tough to get older tapes recorded on a different recorder to track the video and Hi Fi audio at the same time. Switching to manual tracking and tweaking the up down tracking buttons usually makes it possible to view the tape AND listen to the Hi Fi tracks.

It is very important to keep the tape path clean. Sometimes even if the VCR is perfectly aligned, tapes can mis-track due to a dirty tape path. Along with the four video heads and the two Hi Fi heads on the rotary head drum – there are two stationary heads along the tape path. One is the mono audio head and the other head is called a CONTROL TRACK head. It is very important to keep the control track head clean.

As to using JVC VCRs, well I’ve been using a $150 dollar HR-S3911U – JVC – SVHS – ET - Hi Fi model since 2003 without any problems. This baby tracks my 1984 studio released Hi Fi tapes, and my entire home made VHS Hi Fi collection without a problem. I do keep the head path clean and all my recordings are in the fast SP speed. Out of the 225 or so VHS tapes I own, maybe 5 have a little problematic tracking issue. Those tapes are old studio releases and can be tweaked by manually tracking – even the Hi Fi sound works.

-------

Regarding the longevity of DVD-R, I’m scared. I’m hearing horror stories about discs failing after short periods of time. I’ve been archiving on DVD-R using a PC for about a year (about 100 discs) and using my brand new Sony DVD recorder for about a month. So far so good I’ve been using the dreaded CMC MAG. AM3 maxell and so far all work.

I think I’m going to keep my VHS library even after I’m done transferring to DVD-R.

Like many others, I’m going to buy an external 1TB HDD or maybe three 320 HDDs and back everything up.

Regarding the longevity of DVD-R, I’m scared. I’m hearing horror stories about discs failing after short periods of time. I’ve been archiving on DVD-R using a PC for about a year (about 100 discs) and using my brand new Sony DVD recorder for about a month. So far so good I’ve been using the dreaded CMC MAG. AM3 maxell and so far all work.

Earlier I pointed out that older Memorex 16x DVD-R CMC MAG.AM3 media was prone to frequent failures while writing or finalizing. With a small recent sampling of these Memorex discs burned three and four years ago I've found a few that are no longer functional.

Later I found that TDK 16x DVD-R media burned two to three years ago to be of the same CMC MAG. AM3 formulation. With a small sampling of these TDK discs I've found no functional problems. During the same period I also regularly rotated between Verbatim 16x DVD-R and Maxell 16x DVD-R media. Today I sampled a very few of these discs to check functionality and read their MITs. Those Verbatim discs I sampled were read as MCC 03RG20 and those Maxell discs I sampled were read as CMC MAG AM3. This small sample had normal functionality.

In the last year my main use discs have been Taiyo Yuden Premium Line 8x DVD-R media. My "backup" discs are Taiyo Yuden "Value DVD" 8x DVD-R media. Both "grades" are read as "TYG02" media. None of these Taiyo Yuden discs have been problematic.

I also have a very limited number of more recent Maxell 16x DVD-R "RITEKF1" media on hand for "backup" use. These Maxell discs function normally.

Ratsrcute, I'm not disagreeing with anything said here, but if you, or your friend, don't want to order your blank DVDs online, I recommend Verbatim 16x, which are often on sale at Office Max, and sometimes at Best Buy. I have used a couple of thousand, and had only one coaster. But, I would reiterate, for anything irreplaceable, make multiple copies.

Regarding backing up on HDD, especially an external drive that you might put on the shelf for years. I've read that you have to use the drives periodically. If not then the motor's lubricant dries out & the HDD may not spin, thereby causing a loss of data. I don't recall what was recommended, but it was something like once a month or once a year. As I'm typing this I also recall reading that you should access all your data on a HDD periodically because the drive can lose its magnetism. That the act of reading data also causes the drive to rewrite the data, thereby creating new & fresh magnetic data. Or something like that. IOW you should read all the data on your HDD every once in a while. I don’t recall where I’ve read this stuff, or if it really is a significant factor, but it makes me question the integrity of HDD storage. That being said, copying a HDD should be easier than copying hundreds of DVDs.

It is very important to keep the tape path clean. Sometimes even if the VCR is perfectly aligned, tapes can mis-track due to a dirty tape path.

How do you clean the heads? Use one of those cleaning tapes or do it manually somehow?

BTW, my first hi-fi VCR was a JVC. Got it in 1993, and it died almost exactly 5 years later. It did develop seriously tetchy tracking toward the last year or so, but I used the thing so much, I can't really blame it for not lasting longer.

I've used the wet cleaning tapes on occasion and they seem to do a decent light cleaning. You squeeze a few squirts of supplied cleaning solution(or generic tape head cleaner) through a hole in the cleaning tape. It then soaks into the porous tape where it finally gets fed through the VCRs tape path when inserted and played.
I said light because it's my belief a cleaning tape may keep a tape path clean if used regularly but it's not really meant to clean a very dirty tape path. For that I'd take the cover off the machine and use foam cleaning sticks or chamois wands.
I like to use the foam sticks sprayed(or soaked) with a heavy layer of tape head cleaning solution for the tape path and the flat chamois sprayed with the same solution for the delicate rotating video heads. For the heads I suggest holding the wand very still and gently rotating the head with your other hand. You'll feel a slight resistance when the actual video heads (only a couple MM in size) rotate under the chamois. DON'T move the want up and down(especially when the small heads are under the want) the actual video heads are very fragile and if you break them you might as well throw away the VCR. They're quite expensive and require special service tools to replace and calibrate.

I don't want to scare anybody away from the manual cleaning method, just be careful when cleaning the actual video heads(which reside along the lower part of the spinning video head assembly). I wasn't so careful with my first VCR and it cost me something like $200 to have it repaired. $200 was worth it since that VCR cost in excess of $1000 back in '82, I don't think it would be worth it with most current VCRs, maybe DVHS VCRs.
Cleaning the tape path itself is quite easy, just clean every area that the actual video tape touches. That would be the guides, idlers, mono audio head and control head. Don't clean the moving parts that require lubrication, if they're excessively dirty with things like cat hair etc. you could use a dry q-tip to gently remove the debris. I wouldn't really suggest re lubricating those parts but if you do a small amount of lubricating grease should suffice. The more grease you have the more it will attract dust and debris in the future.

I've used the wet cleaning tapes on occasion and they seem to do a decent light cleaning. You squeeze a few squirts of supplied cleaning solution(or generic tape head cleaner) through a hole in the cleaning tape. It then soaks into the porous tape where it finally gets fed through the VCRs tape path when inserted and played.
I said light because it's my belief a cleaning tape may keep a tape path clean if used regularly but it's not really meant to clean a very dirty tape path. For that I'd take the cover off the machine and use foam cleaning sticks or chamois wands.
I like to use the foam sticks sprayed(or soaked) with a heavy layer of tape head cleaning solution, for the tape path and the flat chamois sprayed with the same solution for the delicate rotating video heads. For the heads I suggest holding the wand very still and gently rotating the head with your other hand. You'll feel a slight resistance when the actual video heads (only a couple MM in size) rotate under the chamois. DON'T move the want up and down(especially when the small heads are under the want) the actual video heads are very fragile and if you break them you might as well throw away the VCR. They're quite expensive and require special service tools to replace and calibrate.

I don't want to scare anybody away from the manual cleaning method, just be careful when cleaning the actual video heads(which reside along the lower part of the spinning video head assembly). I wasn't so careful with my first VCR and it cost me something like $200 to have it repaired. $200 was worth it since that VCR cost in excess of $1000 back in '82, I don't think it would be worth it with most current VCRs, maybe DVHS VCRs.

Another quick trick is to fast forward and rewind a tape (while it's engaged so you can see the picture -- not just FF or << when it's inserted but not playing) That helps to loosen up some dust/gunk. Off the top of my head I cant remember if it was beta or VHS that always kept the tape engaged (I think Sony beta.... cause I also had an odd duck of a machine made by sanyo way back when that acted more like a VHS mechanism, engaging and disengaging for play/stop ... whereas the original betamax , if memory serves, was engaged ALL the time.

I've always been chicken to pop the lids on these, but nothing to lose now, I suppose. I still have one workhorse JVC that's at least 7 years old, and a less reliable 5 yr old Sony that are now eating tape, so maybe I'll give it a whirl.

Maybe an SLR sensor cleaner might work? I have some of those around - same principle, I think ... no fuzz, no lint. I've waited this long, I suppose it can wait a little longer :)


PS re media - maxell 16x sometimes has burning problems on my oldest dvd recorder - when I can find them, I prefer 8x . The maxells have been stable once burned, but sometimes there are blips and slowdowns - I'm sure it's because the spindle needs attention ... but for me, slower media speed seems to work best for the older recorders . Just got some TY and we'll see how that works --so far, excellent.

One other thought -- be careful how you store the discs -- I like Tyvec sleeves . I used some plastic sleeves a few years ago that ended up STICKING to the media and the entire surface of the disc "bloomed". Nasty business. (they still worked, but I copied them REAL fast to be sure I didnt lose the data)

PS re media - maxell 16x sometimes has burning problems on my oldest dvd recorder - when I can find them, I prefer 8x . The maxells have been stable once burned, but sometimes there are blips and slowdowns - I'm sure it's because the spindle needs attention ... but for me, slower media speed seems to work best for the older recorders . Just got some TY and we'll see how that works --so far, excellent.
8X media takes 40% LESS LD power to burn than 16X, so easier to burn with old equipment plus other benefits described here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12298494&postcount=20#DVDcare3)

Another quick trick is to fast forward and rewind a tape (while it's engaged so you can see the picture -- not just FF or << when it's inserted but not playing) That helps to loosen up some dust/gunk. Off the top of my head I cant remember if it was beta or VHS that always kept the tape engaged (I think Sony beta.... cause I also had an odd duck of a machine made by sanyo way back when that acted more like a VHS mechanism, engaging and disengaging for play/stop ... whereas the original betamax , if memory serves, was engaged ALL the time.

Yes Sony touted that as a advantage of Beta's superior tape path. Since more tape was pulled out of the cassette and the bends weren't as sharp they could keep the tape out even during FF and REW. This also had the advantage of being able to use chapters or index marks on the tape which could be accessed during FF and REW. With VHS's M loading tape path this was not possible until JVC figured out a way to simulate Sony's FF and REW while the tape is out of it's shell several years later.
It went that way for the whole B vs V war. Sony and Beta would come up with a feature but quickly JVC and VHS would counter with a equal feature. The only feature VHS really ever had the last say on was recording speed, which is all that most of the masses really cared about anyway.
I don't want to come off as a Beta guy, while I seriously considered a new Sony Beta back in '82 the lack of programming for Beta made me decide to go VHS and I never really looked back. Many years later I bought a used Sony Beta, my dream machine, but actually preferred the SP recording quality of my top of the line 4 head Matushita VHS. I really admired Sony's design and build quality though. This Beta had 200x visual search speed along with a jog shuttle dial in it's wired remote.


Maybe an SLR sensor cleaner might work? I have some of those around - same principle, I think ... no fuzz, no lint. I've waited this long, I suppose it can wait a little longer :)




I really found a wet type of cleaner was best for cleaning the tape path but anything is better than nothing. I think anything gentle enough for a camera sensor may not be able to dislodge the gunk on a video head but it sure can't hurt.
Oh and on your FF/REW trick, I think basically all VCRs from the mid 90's and on utilized the tape being loaded all the time during FF/REW so as long as you have a good tape (and one that's not old and shedding oxide) that wouldn't hurt either. One last trick, again from the 90's and on I think all VCRs had a little pad that would rest against the video head only when the tape was being ejected. Knowing this you may also want to try ejecting and reinserting the tape several times in a row to see if this might help. It's a dry cleaning system but again it's better than nothing.

You might want to check & see if your VHS machine has an automatic tape head cleaner. My Mitsubishi S-VHS has a small white "roller" that briefly touches the rotating head when entering certain modes. I don't know how effective this is, but if it cleans every time you use the recorder then the video heads may already be clean. Then it's a matter of cleaning everything else in the tape path, including the stationary heads. Of course if the video heads are clogged then you will need to clean then. I've never had chamois swabs available when it came time to clean so I used Q-Tips, but you have to be real careful because they may leave fibers behind, especially on the video heads. I've used denatured alcohol for the solvent.

Greetings, all. Noobiest of newbies here. I'm trying to make an intelligent decision about which discs to buy to make recovery discs for my new PC.

I understand that this thread is not specifically about dvd's and dvd burners in computers, but I'm unable to locate forums related specifically to my new laptop.

I wonder if you all would tell me if you think, generally, that the Taiyo Yuden Premium Silver Thermal Lacquer 8X DVD-R Media (Premium Line) in Cake Box would be a good choice.

In case it's useful info, my laptop is a Hewlett-Packard 15.6" G60-231WM Notebook with a LightScribe SuperMulti 8X DVD±R/RW with Double Layer Support.

Thanks for any tips.

Indeed, a good choice.

I wonder if you all would tell me if you think, generally, that the Taiyo Yuden Premium Silver Thermal Lacquer 8X DVD-R Media (Premium Line) in Cake Box would be a good choice.Yes, they are the best. In addition to video applications I use T-Y premium 8X for backing up my PC data -- the largest quantity being music and digital pictures from my camera. I have complete faith in the T-Y disks, but even so I make 2 copies of every archival backup and store them properly.

Thanks, plplplpl and Kelson !

I have complete faith in the T-Y disks, but even so I make 2 copies of every archival backup and store them properly. I've read about keeping the disks away from sun and heat and dirt. I see that artwire recommends Tyvec sleeves to store disks in. Are there other types of storage that will also do a good job?

Thanks again.

Thanks, plplplpl and Kelson !

I've read about keeping the disks away from sun and heat and dirt. I see that artwire recommends Tyvec sleeves to store disks in. Are there other types of storage that will also do a good job?

Thanks again.

My storage solution are albums, somtimes called "wallets." Of course these "wallets" don't fit in a pocket or purse. The pictured discs are Taiyo Yuden Premium Line 8x DVD-R media. Mija, our cat, doesn't care what brand DVDs I use. She regards the ironing board as one of her regular locations for taking a nap or watching birds, squirrels or other neighborhood goings-on through the adjacent window. In the early July photo there are around 4,700 home-recorded DVDs in the "wallets."

These online sellers have "wallets" of various capacities:

http://www.shop4tech.com/z/CD_DVD_Wallets/1_97_284/

http://www.supermediastore.com/regular-cd-dvd-wallets.html

I just purchased two of these:

http://www.supermediastore.com/cd-dvd-wallet-wallets-cd-holders-cd-storages-organizer-epv-416.html

The wallets are a great idea--inexpensive, not too bulky, an portable. I ended up with a bunch of good-quality ring binders from a previous employer, so I've been ordering the 3-ring inserts and creating my own storage albums for DVDs and CDs. They work fine, but the inserts do extend a bit beyond the edge of the binder, potentially exposing the edges of the discs to damage if they were stored in a more "adverse" environment.

Mija, our cat, doesn't care what brand DVDs I use.

But even though she's cat-napping, she's keeping one eye on the classic movie archive!! (My cat just steals my chair when I get up to change DVDs....)

I just purchased two of these:

http://www.supermediastore.com/cd-dvd-wallet-wallets-cd-holders-cd-storages-organizer-epv-416.html

Great price! Just a little over 4 cents/disc for storage. That beats my $1.99 wallets I get from Microcenter that hold 40 discs which boils down to ~5 cents/disc.
Man they must weigh a ton when filled with 416 discs:eek: Can you imagine 416 VHS tapes;)

DigaDo, thanks for the blank media info. Good to know.

As I'm typing this I also recall reading that you should access all your data on a HDD periodically because the drive can lose its magnetism. That the act of reading data also causes the drive to rewrite the data, thereby creating new & fresh magnetic data. .

I wonder if doing a virus scan on the drive would read/rewrite the info? If so, doing that over night every other month may be sufficient enough to keep the data from disappearing. By just backing up video and virus scanning every other month – the HDD might last for 10 years, or is that wishfull thinking? Thanks for the info Mike99.

--------
A lot of people provided good info regarding cleaning your VCR heads.
jjeff wrote that you have to be very careful not to break off a head. That is very true but if your VCR isn’t functioning properly, and a cleaning tape won’t solve the problem, you may as well open up the top cover and try manually cleaning the heads. If you break one off you can always go to a thrift shop and buy a working VCR for a few bucks.

I was just perusing this thread and read...

One other thought -- be careful how you store the discs -- I like Tyvec sleeves . I used some plastic sleeves a few years ago that ended up STICKING to the media and the entire surface of the disc "bloomed". Nasty business. (they still worked, but I copied them REAL fast to be sure I didnt lose the data)

I had a similar experience. I was refiling some DVDs I had stored in plain white paper sleeves with plastic "windows" and in one case, the "window" had somehow become stuck to the DVD front! I peeled off all the plastic I could, then copied the DVD. It worked, whew! I "rehomed" all the DVDs that were in similar sleeves (mostly I put DVDs back on spindles) and tossed out most of those particular sleeves. I took the rest (clean ones) to work for temporary use.

DigaDo, thanks for the blank media info. Good to know.

I wonder if doing a virus scan on the drive would read/rewrite the info? If so, doing that over night every other month may be sufficient enough to keep the data from disappearing. By just backing up video and virus scanning every other month – the HDD might last for 10 years, or is that wishfull thinking? Thanks for the info Mike99.

You might want to Google and see what results you get re this. I tried & did not get a lot of relevant hits. Hopefully with the proper set of search parameters some meaningful info will show up, such as a article written by a drive manufacturer.

DigaDo, thanks for the blank media info. Good to know.

In recent months I’ve averaged around 160 finalized DVDs per month.

My primary DVD media is Taiyo Yuden Premium Line 8x DVD-R for use in my Panasonic, Philips and Magnavox recorders.

For backup recordings I use Taiyo Yuden Value Line DVD-R media.

Up to now I’ve had no performance issues with any Taiyo Yuden media.

In the last year I’ve probably recorded 400 trouble-free TY Value Line discs.

In an earlier post in another thread I reported a visible irregularity with one TY Value Line disc. That disc evidenced what I now refer to as “dye smearing into hub area” but the disc recorded, finalized and plays satisfactorily. (That earlier disc has been re-examined, now found to be from the GH000197 lot. That Value Line stack may have had discs from mixed lot numbers.) The earlier post is found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17017463#post17017463

Several days ago I opened a new stack of TY Value Line DVD-R discs. This stack is also from lot number GH000197, with a TYG03 MIT (indicating a 16x DVD-R disc). So far, nine of these discs have been recorded. Two of these discs have been problematic, the first one while high-speed dubbing with a Magnavox 2080 HDD/DVD recorder and the other following a timer recording with a Panasonic DMR-EZ17 recorder. (The error appeared upon the next power-up of the EZ17.) Eight of these recorded GH000197 discs have been finalized. The disc recorded with the Magnavox 2080 does not fully “load” (it hangs on the last “loading bar”) on Magnavox or Philips recorders so it may not be finalized. That failed disc and an unused DVD are pictured in the attached photo. Notice the pink-appearing splotches at the right just at the edge of the recorded portion of the disc at the left and several pink-appearing splotches at the right of the unused DVD. (While attempting to take this photo some dust managed to settle on the discs.) In the following description I will characterize these splotches as “raindrop-like.”

The successfully finalized GH000197 discs all show some combination of dust-like spots or streaking marks on the silver (label) side or clouding in the hub area.

I’ve now visually examined the whole TY Value Line stack of GH000197 discs. While I may not describe appearance anomalies according to their appropriate technical terms, I will describe the conditions as they appear to me.

Of the 100 disc stack of GH000197 DVDs only 3 DVDs appear as normal.

There are one or more raindrop-like splotches appearing on the purple (recording) side, 25 DVDs.

Dull streaking appears on the silver and purple sides, 3 DVDs.

There is outside edge or hub clouding (possible integrity issues?), 11 DVDS.

There are small spots or streaks that sparkle in the light on the silver side, 12 DVDs.

There are dust-like spots with or without cloud-like streaking following the disk rotational direction on the silver side, 39 DVDs.

There are dust-like spots on the silver side as well as hub clouding, 3 DVDs.

Following this examination of the GH000197 Value Line stack I opened and examined my other Value Line stack.

This other Value Line stack is from lot number GG000293 with a TYG02 MIT (indicating a 8x DVD-R disc). Some of the same anomalies were observed in this Value Line stack. Most of these anomalies did not appear as serious as with the Value Line GH000197 stack.

Of the 100 disc stack of GG000283 DVDs 55 appear as normal.

There is a raindrop-like splotch on the purple side, 1 DVD.

There is dull streaking appearing on the silver side, 5 DVDs.

There are minor outside edge or hub clouding or related defects, 5 DVDs.

There are small spots or streaks that sparkle in the light on the silver side, 7 DVDs.

There are minor dust-like spots, sometimes with dull cloud-like streaks on the silver side, 22 DVDs.

There are severe dust-like spots sometimes with heavy radial or lateral cloud like streaks on the silver side, 3 DVDs.

There are severe dust-like spots with radial streaks and an outside edge integrity issue, 1 DVD.

There is dye smearing into hub area (similar to that mentioned in the linked post), 1 DVD.

Certainly the raindrop-like splotches on the purple (recording) side indicate functional defects. Other anomalies may or may not indicate functional defects.

Comments are welcome.

Comments are welcome.As has been mentioned previously, "Value Line" are T-Y rejects that are sold in bulk to jobbers who repackage them for sale to the unsuspecting. T-Y has never marketed a "Value Line". I never felt the small price difference between rejects and Premium product was worth it. But then for someone like yourself who burns large quantities of disks, that difference could add up to real money in the long run.

Practical experience has shown that in the past the quality of these rejects usually exceeded that of the chinese junk in stores -- this was especially true when 4X T-Y media was still being manufactured. But there is no guarantee of minimum quality these rejects must meet. Quite the opposite -- they are rejects because they don't meet the minimum T-Y quality standards. How far below that standard is an open question and I suppose anything goes as long as the jobber thinks he can still sell them. Apparently, you got hold of a couple of really bad batches of reject media. Sorry for your loss. I suppose you'll keep those in reserve for burning give-away disks.

I purchased some Taiyo Yuden disks recently from Amazon---I had a little trouble finding something that clearly had the word "Premium" in the title in all locations that they listed the title, so it was ambiguous. What they finally shipped me had this label on it. Are these the premium disks?

Taiyo Yuden
Part# DVD-R47ZZ100SB
Description: -R LACQUER 8X
MID: TYG02

Thanks,
Mike

The place to buy Taiyo Yuden Premium Line 8x DVD-R media at the best price, with free shipping, is supermediastore:

http://www.supermediastore.com/taiyo-yuden-silver-thermal-8x-dvd-r-media-100-pack.html

I've just ordered two more spindles of TY "Premium Line" 8x DVD-R discs to replace the two problematic stacks of "Value Line" discs described in my 10/13/2009 post.

Okay, but I'd still like to know if what I got already is the Premium line. Does anyone have a box of Premium they can check the label of?
Thanks,
Mike

Okay, but I'd still like to know if what I got already is the Premium line. Does anyone have a box of Premium they can check the label of?
Thanks,
Mike
AFAIK, if the TY part# DOESN"T have "VAL" in it, it's Premium.

Okay, but I'd still like to know if what I got already is the Premium line. Does anyone have a box of Premium they can check the label of?
Thanks,
Mike

You asked for it so here is what you wanted to know about Taiyo Yuden packaging:

Taiyo Yuden discs come in shipping boxes containing 600 discs.

Value Line boxes are smaller than Premium Line boxes as the discs are shrink wrapped in 100 disc stacks without a spindle. Value Line boxes have a box-end sticker that reads "DVD R47VAL600SK." See the first photo. The stacks are shipped on their sides, as seen in the photo in my next post. Shrink wrapped stacks of 100 Value Line discs have a label reading "Value DVD." See the second photo.

Premium Line boxes are larger than Value Line boxes as the discs are packaged in "cake box" spindles of 100 discs shipped in an upright position. The Premium Line box shows part number "DVD-R47ZZ100SB." See the third and fourth photos. Premium Line cake box spindles have a label that folds over the cake box base to seal the spindle, as seen in the third photo.

I used to keep around a cheaper grade of blank discs for less-than-critical recordings. Then I decided that if it was worth preserving on disc at all, it's worth the relatively small extra cost for T-Y Premium.

Well, Kelson's signature, "Life is too short to drink bad wine or burn "cheap" media . . . " sums up the issue, at least as far as media goes.:D

:D:D:D

600 pack! :eek:

... I have found that even if libraries take them, they actually never use them. I've never seen them on the floor, anyway...

You mean to tell me that some libraries use DVDs as floor coverings?

Hey, Rammitinski, don't be so shocked! I have to admit that I currently have THREE of these boxes of 600 T-Y premium DVD-R blank disks, unopened. I learned from a professional archivest where I work that they make multiple copies of everything. He convinced me that if it were worth my time to make a disk, then it's worth my time to make a copy. With media at 30 cents a piece, is it worth your time not to make a copy. So I bought a duplicator and started in. I am around 900 copes so far and I'm not yet half way through. The price break on the 600 packs (one box) is fine by me. They don't even open the box, just slap a shipping label on it and send out.

Hey, Rammitinski, don't be so shocked!Not shocked - just weirded out. That post is easily over a couple months old, and it's not even from this thread. :p

(Or maybe it was and I erased it - but if so, how in the heck did he dredge it up?)

I know it's not unusual for guys like you two to order that many, because you generally use them - I just wonder where in the heck you store them.

Hey, Rammitinski, don't be so shocked! I have to admit that I currently have THREE of these boxes of 600 T-Y premium DVD-R blank disks, unopened.

I know it's not unusual for guys like you two to order that many, because you generally use them - I just wonder where in the heck you store them.

Here are three of my TY Premium 8x DVD-R boxes sitting under the table in my home office. The two TY boxes at the left are unopened and the current box at the right above the Panasonic DMR-ES46V box has four unopened "cake boxes." The Magnavox combo recorder is a refurbished ZV450MW8 originally manufactured in March 2007.

Not shocked - just weirded out. That post is easily over a couple months old, and it's not even from this thread. :p

(Or maybe it was and I erased it - but if so, how in the heck did he dredge it up?)



It seemed to me that TY Value Line discs with splotches on the recording side might have some other use. Then I remembered your comment and my response in the Media Deals thread. This presented an opportunity to revisit the humor of May 2009.

I purchased some Taiyo Yuden disks recently from Amazon---I had a little trouble finding something that clearly had the word "Premium" in the title in all locations that they listed the title, so it was ambiguous. What they finally shipped me had this label on it. Are these the premium disks?

Taiyo Yuden
Part# DVD-R47ZZ100SB
Description: -R LACQUER 8X
MID: TYG02

Thanks,
Mike


The SuperMediaStore.com web site lists the following for "Taiyo Yuden Premium Silver Thermal Lacquer 8X DVD-R Media (Premium Line) 100 Pack in Cake Box":

"Mfr part #: DVD-R47ZZ100SB8"

Looking at a few T-Y items it appears the "100" indicates the quantity & the "8" the speed.

Not shocked - just weirded out. That post is easily over a couple months old, and it's not even from this thread. :p

(Or maybe it was and I erased it - but if so, how in the heck did he dredge it up?)

I know it's not unusual for guys like you two to order that many, because you generally use them - I just wonder where in the heck you store them.
Well, as usual, you are quite correct. The post was not recent (05-04-09), and it was from the very old, but still current, "Media deals this week" thread.

Where do I store them? They are pretty small really. They fit behind the DVDs on a shelf quite easily.

My question is: Do these things have good shelf lives, or just make good shelves?

According to National Archivists Org, 5-yr shelf life... but then, they have "national treasures" to archive.

Hi I bought a Toshiba DVR620 a couple of weeks ago, and I'm trying to decide which blank DVDs to buy for it.

Reading here, and everywhere else on the internet, the best choice is Taiyo Yuden Premium Line 8x DVD-R.

I bought some Memorex DVDs when I bought the recorder. Some have worked, some not. When they don't work, 1 1/2 hour after I start recording, I find out I have a bad disk. Is there a way to test, or find out sooner if the disk is good, or not?

I can not find any TY -rw disks. Do they make them? I like the idea of reusing the disks over, and over. Most recording is just to watch a TV show we missed. Also my DVD recorder has a cool feature that I would like to use. You can start watching what you recorded, WHILE it still records the rest of the show. So if Bones starts at 7:00, and my wife gets home at 7:20 we can start watching it right away, and not have to wait till 8:00, when it's done recording. We don't have a Tivo, so I'm excited to use that. The only disks that let you do that are -rw.

So should I just give up on the -rw, buy the much cheaper -r, then throw them away, and not get to watch while recording, or can you suggest a second best brand that makes -rw?

I can not find any TY -rw disks. Do they make them?No. They only make CD-R, DVD-R,+R,-R DL & BD-R (http://www.yuden.co.jp/ut/product/disks/index.html?__utma=1.999572502.1255706811.1255706811.12557068 11.1&__utmb=1.2.10.1255706811&__utmc=1&__utmx=-&__utmz=1.1255706811.1.1.utmcsr=taiyo-yuden.com|utmccn=%28referral%29|utmcmd=referral|utmcct=/&__utmv=-&__utmk=109812229).

I like the idea of reusing the disks over, and over. Most recording is just to watch a TV show we missed. Also my DVD recorder has a cool feature that I would like to use. You can start watching what you recorded, WHILE it still records the rest of the show. So if Bones starts at 7:00, and my wife gets home at 7:20 we can start watching it right away, and not have to wait till 8:00, when it's done recording. We don't have a Tivo, so I'm excited to use that. The only disks that let you do that are -rw.

.....can you suggest a second best brand that makes -rw?

I'm not familiar with your machine, but the feature you are referring to is called "chase play" and is common on Panasonic machines. However, Pannys require DVD-RAM discs for chase play. Are you sure that your machine will do chase play on RW's?
I have had much success with Sony DVD-RWs. Make sure you get the discs made in Taiwan. They can be found at Walgreens and
K mart.

Even though I don't have one I've read that certain Toshibas allow the chase play feature on RW discs. At one time I also thought chase play was restricted to RAM discs but I guess not on Toshibas for one.
I agree on the Sony RWs as well as Verbatims.

I'm not familiar with your machine, but the feature you are referring to is called "chase play" and is common on Panasonic machines. However, Pannys require DVD-RAM discs for chase play. Are you sure that your machine will do chase play on RW's?

Even though I don't have one I've read that certain Toshibas allow the chase play feature on RW discs. At one time I also thought chase play was restricted to RAM discs but I guess not on Toshibas for one.On -RW, VR mode recording on a UDF 2 formatted disk is required for chase play. That is the native format and recording mode for RAM disks. Panasonic records all disks other than RAM in DVD video mode -- you can't chase play with a DVD video mode disk. If he can chase play on his Toshiba with a DVD-RW then it must be recording in VR mode. Pioneer could record -RW in VR mode/UDF 2, so I presume you could chase play with -RW on those units.

Before I switched to network streaming through my TiVo, I used -RW disks a lot to burn image copies of DVDs that I only wanted to keep until I watched. I've used Ritek -RW and kept track of how many full burns I could perform on a disk before I would see an error in the verify step. Once I got a verify error, the disk was trash and would alway fail a verify from that point on. The bad news is I rarely got more than 20 full disk burns before the disk failed. On the other hand I have 5 year old Panasonic RAMs that are still good (haven't lost a RAM yet). So if you are planning on using -RW disks for time shifting, buy them by the 25 pack.

Before I switched to network streaming through my TiVo, I used -RW disks a lot to burn image copies of DVDs that I only wanted to keep until I watched. I've used Ritek -RW and kept track of how many full burns I could perform on a disk before I would see an error in the verify step. Once I got a verify error, the disk was trash and would alway fail a verify from that point on. The bad news is I rarely got more than 20 full disk burns before the disk failed. On the other hand I have 5 year old Panasonic RAMs that are still good (haven't lost a RAM yet). So if you are planning on using -RW disks for time shifting, buy them by the 25 pack.

I thought I lost a few Panny RAM discs, but that probably was because the recorder itself was having problems (needed spindle cleaning, etc) and I blamed the media or dust bunnies for the blips. It would stutter and stall when playing back recorded programs. If I can dig them up I may try reformatting them. I've been using mostly cartridge-housed RAM discs for my pannys, but now I'm wondering if those discs (removed from the cartridge) may be useable in a different player -- or in the DVD drive of my computer which I believe reads UDF formatting. Can RAM discs be 'finalized' the way that other media can? I've never used them that way, just for time shifting.

I'm also a little confused about the 'full disk burn' you mentioned above- for RW, I didn't think you had to finalize' before playing -- was it done this way because you were using disk images? (by "full burn" -- I assume you mean makingi a disc copy on the comnputer, but maybe you mean just 20 recording sessions?)

I thought I lost a few Panny RAM discs, but that probably was because the recorder itself was having problems (needed spindle cleaning, etc) and I blamed the media or dust bunnies for the blips. It would stutter and stall when playing back recorded programs. If I can dig them up I may try reformatting them. I've been using mostly cartridge-housed RAM discs for my pannys, but now I'm wondering if those discs (removed from the cartridge) may be useable in a different player -- or in the DVD drive of my computer which I believe reads UDF formatting. Can RAM discs be 'finalized' the way that other media can? I've never used them that way, just for time shifting.


Try gently washing the RAM discs with dishwashing soap & gently drying with a soft cloth. I previously read about this & tried it with a problematic RAM disc & it now works like new. For some reason a few people had this situation & washing cleared things up. Later on I had to do a spindle cleaning because of missed recordings. And once again everything works fine. I know RAM discs do not need to be finalized and do not know what happens if you try. I'm guessing that function will not be allowed.

. . . Several days ago I opened a new stack of TY Value Line DVD-R discs. This stack is also from lot number GH000197, with a TYG03 MIT (indicating a 16x DVD-R disc). So far, nine of these discs have been recorded. Two of these discs have been problematic . . . Notice the pink-appearing splotches at the right just at the edge of the recorded portion of the disc at the left and several pink-appearing splotches at the right of the unused DVD . . .

Of the 100 disc stack of GH000197 DVDs only 3 DVDs appear as normal.

There are one or more raindrop-like splotches appearing on the purple (recording) side, 25 DVDs . . .

Following this examination of the GH000197 Value Line stack I opened and examined my other Value Line stack.

This other Value Line stack is from lot number GG000293 with a TYG02 MIT (indicating a 8x DVD-R disc). Some of the same anomalies were observed in this Value Line stack. Most of these anomalies did not appear as serious as with the Value Line GH000197 stack.

Of the 100 disc stack of GG000283 DVDs 55 appear as normal.

There is a raindrop-like splotch on the purple side, 1 DVD . . .

Certainly the raindrop-like splotches on the purple (recording) side indicate functional defects. Other anomalies may or may not indicate functional defects.

As a follow-up to that earlier post, I've set aside all the Value Line discs with raindrop-like splotches on the purple (recording) side. I've experimented with a few of the discs with silver (label) side imperfections by using them to burn copies of earlier discs with a computer. Those few computer burned disc copies seem to function normally. Perhaps some of those label-side imperfections are merely cosmetic while the recording-side raindrop-like spotches render a disc unusable.

Not shocked - just weirded out. That post is easily over a couple months old, and it's not even from this thread. :p

(Or maybe it was and I erased it - but if so, how in the heck did he dredge it up?)

I know it's not unusual for guys like you two to order that many, because you generally use them - I just wonder where in the heck you store them.
Well, if you think a 600 pack is excessive, then check THIS (http://www.supermediastore.com/product/u/taiyo-yuden-silver-thermal-8x-dvd-r-media-500-cake-box-9600-pack?max=15&brand=TAIYO+YUDEN&offset=0&filter=Package%3DCake+Box%7CSurface%3DSilver+Thermal%7C) out. It is implying that it comes in a (one) cake box. I think it is more likely that it comes in 96 cake boxes. That is 16 boxes of 600, so I assume it must arrive on a pallet! A single cake box would be about 624 inches long -- 52 feet! Imagine the difficulty in getting the disks off the spindle?

9600 pack:eek:

Well, if you think a 600 pack is excessive, then check THIS (http://www.supermediastore.com/product/u/taiyo-yuden-silver-thermal-8x-dvd-r-media-500-cake-box-9600-pack?max=15&brand=TAIYO+YUDEN&offset=0&filter=Package%3DCake+Box%7CSurface%3DSilver+Thermal%7C) out. It is implying that it comes in a (one) cake box. I think it is more likely that it comes in 96 cake boxes. That is 16 boxes of 600, so I assume it must arrive on a pallet! A single cake box would be about 624 inches long -- 52 feet! Imagine the difficulty in getting the disks off the spindle?Not so much getting them off the spindle, it's getting the cover off the cakebox that is the real challenge. You'll have to make use of the neighbors yard.

9600 pack:eek:But note: it's eligible for free shipping -- woohoo.

To paraphrase Marie Antoinette, "Let them eat cake boxes..." :eek:

Earlier on, I mentioned some TY Value Line discs that had raindrop-like "splotches" on the purple recording side of the disc. It was found that when a recording would encounter the first splotch the recording would fail, rendering the disc useless.

Is there a workaround to salvage "splotch" discs? In some cases, yes.

I made a close examination of each of these discs under a bright light or sunlight. Beginning from the center and moving outward, I estimated the duration of usable recording space at the Panasonic LP recording mode (four hours per disc) before a recording would encounter the first splotch. That estimate was then noted on the label side of the disc with a Sharpie fine point and the discs were stacked on a spindle in the order of their "usable recording time." I've labeled this spindle as "partials."

I've started using some of these "partials" for recordings that will fit well within the estimated "usable recording time."

I've now used three of these discs in this manner. The first has two LP recordings (including a TCM movie, a promo and a short) totalling around 2:19; the second has four recordings (Cheyenne and Maverick episodes from Encore Westerns) a mixing of LP and EP recordings (with a total playing time of around 3:24) but these mixed recordings are estimated to occupy around 2:55 of LP space; and the third (a TCM movie) a single LP recording of 1:16.

If I were not so thrifty (cheap), I would have tossed these discs.

So far, so good.

9600 pack:eek:
Yeah, 9600 pack! Supermedia.com says they are out of stock. I wonder how many of those they sell?

If I were not so thrifty (cheap), I would have tossed these discs.


If you cared at all whether the recordings would last, you would have tossed those discs, or better yet, asked for refund/replacement.

My concern with using the "splotched" discs, even if you stop recording before the burned area reaches the first splotch, is that the splotches may be a corruption that spreads over time to the good areas.......

eggsackly!.

My concern with using the "splotched" discs, even if you stop recording before the burned area reaches the first splotch, is that the splotches may be a corruption that spreads over time to the good areas.......

That is certainly a valid concern.

Since these Value Line discs are being used for non-essential or backup recordings, problems appearing in the future should be of little consequence.

Since recording/finalizing the first three "splotched" discs there are now an additional six that have been recorded/finalized. So far, there have been no complications.

One of the "splotched" discs estimated to have 1:30 of "usable recording time" (at the Panasonic LP 4:00 per disc recording mode) was used in a Philips 3575 for the high speed-dub of a 1:19 movie (recorded at the Philips LP 3:00 per disc recording mode). Due to the difference between these recording modes the 1:19 Philips recording came very close to that disc's first "splotch."

Since these Value Line discs are being used for non-essential or backup recordings, problems appearing in the future should be of little consequence.

Since recording/finalizing the first three "splotched" discs there are now an additional six that have been recorded/finalized. So far, there have been no complications.

A more recent update appeared in another thread, where I "encounted two Value Line spindles that had some discs with imperfections in the recording media. Where those imperfections occured toward the outer portion of a disc I determined how much useful recording space was available and made notations on the disc's label. I placed these flawed discs, in the order of their available recording space, on a spindle designated as "partials." To supplement my tandem recording strategy, or through selective dubbing, or computer use, I've been dwindling this spindle down with one or two recordings that fit within the available recording space. Within a few days this spindle of "partials" will be history."

With this usage of "imperfect" Value Line discs I've since found only one disc that was problematic. At the moment there are a dozen of these Value Line discs left.

I've also found a use for the empty Value Line box, storage of two Panasonic DMR-EZ17 "clunkers," i.e., parts machines: