I got to thinking about this thanks to a post by Les Auber at another thread here:

Steve, Take this for what it's worth as it's extremely subjective and unfortunately not always controlled circumstances. For SACD it always seems like the comparable Sony player sounds better. I've never found confirmation but it always seems like Sony kept the secret to the 'secret sauce' to themselves. This leads me to wonder if this had something to do with Theta dropping their program to create onboard SACD, DVD-A decoding for the CB III using a Theta proprietary link from players like the Compli. IIRC the old Compli has a port for such that went unused.

While certainly not a complete test the Denon 2900 player I had was less musically involving playing hybrid SACD's through the SS than the LPCM track through the Superior I DAC in the CB. I've came to similar conclusions listening to Sony vs the competition in other systems. I realize the 2900 was a notable underachiever in the analog realm and would have discounted it if I hadn't heard similar results elsewhere.

Sony keep secrets to themselves, couldn't be.

Back about 2002 I had a Sony SCD-777ES player. I also had a then Theta Casablanca 2 with Superior DACs (before the Extreme DACs came out). And a Theta Voyager LD and CD transport. The Sony on SACD was clearly better sounding than my Theta Voyager to Superior DACs.

Then I demod a Granite Audio 657 tube CD player, using its DA conversion and analog out into the CB2 analog inputs (pre Six Shooter). The tube CD player on rebook was clearly better than using the Sony on SACD.

Then 2005 upgraded to CB3 with a Six Shooter preamp and a Theta Compli DVD and CD player/transport, ditching the Theta Voyager. Had recently got the Extreme DACs, too. Found that CD from the Compli via the Extreme DACs was the equal of the tube CD player, sold tube CD player.
But also found that SACD via Compli using its DA conversion analog out to Six Shooter was clearly superior. And of course Six Shooter much better preamp than using analog inputs on the back of the CB3.

Now have an Oppo BDP-83. Its digital out, converting DSD to PCM, isn't in the same league with the Compli.

Might also add that recently got the PS Audio PerfectWave Transport CD player and on redbook alone is sounds better than the Compli on SACD, both using the Six Shooter.

What are your experiences?

Does Sony have the secret sauce? They didn't for me the first time around?

Interesting idea. Wonder what others experience is in this? Though I wasn't so much thinking in the vein of SACD vs redbook CD sound quality as the sound of Sony SACD players vs other SACD players on SACD. I've never had any reason to believe that Sony had it for everything, just that they might have held back some secrets to decoding SACD.

I did find it interesting that the Denon 2900 SACD decoding was not as good as its PCM SPDIF out to the CB with hybrid SACDs that presumably had the same master recording as the source. Not sure if this showed that Denon couldn't decode SACD as well or just scrimped on the 2900 analog stages.

Les, one thing we need to keep in mind with the SACD player doing the DA conversion and analog out is that this is dependent on the quality of the surround processor analog direct/bypass or preamp used.

I would think that the Theta Casablanca's onboard analog direct/bypass is about as good as it gets for analog on board. But the Six Shooter is way better,in the class of much more expensive separate preamps.

Back when I ended up ditching Sony SACD vs tube CD, I then did not have the Six Shooter. So my then Casablanca was in effect degrading the sonics coming out of the Sony player. Notwithstanding this, that demo was "Even Steven", not only because I did it with Don of Granite Audio and using our ears and his test gear we were perfectly level matched
(Hello Chu where are you?), but both the Sony SACD and the Granite Audio tube CD players were doing the DA conversion with analog out to my then CB2.

Agreed. The Denon 2900 was with SS vs Superior 1 DAC. Levels were as close as I could get them. The other players were competitive in pricing when doing the other comparisons which hopefully means the designers had similar constraints/choices to make.

The other comparison were in a couple high fi shops around town with the only difference being the player. Again as level matched as possible. It just surprised me that the better Sony's SACD playback was generally better than the others. One of the store managers had noticed something similar when we were comparing notes. Just one of those odd bits that stuck with me making me wonder if Sony was holding out.

Once you get into the best sound possible from a silver disk the possible permutations for system matching and tradeoffs get so large that I've never tried for a who's best other than noting that Theta was in general pretty darn good however you sliced it. Though as mentioned the onboard analog does not hold up to SS or the better two channel gear out there. This might have something to do with all the digital noise generators in the same box.

Marantz SA-7s1. If there is better than that for SACD, I do not want to know. The sound stage front to back depth and and width with the Six Shooter is incredible. I run it balanced. I like that player so much that it stopped me from even investigating other players. Only thing I would like to see is way to connect an external source,use it as a dac. The Xtreme dacs are way beneath the Marantz.

Marantz SA-7s1. If there is better than that for SACD, I do not want to know. The sound stage front to back depth and and width with the Six Shooter is incredible. I run it balanced. I like that player so much that it stopped me from even investigating other players. Only thing I would like to see is way to connect an external source,use it as a dac. The Xtreme dacs are way beneath the Marantz.

Are we talkin' stereo or multi-channel?

What other SACD players have you tried and your "findings".

I got to thinking about this thanks to a post by Les Auber at another thread here:


The quote from Les Auber was specific to SACD players; for that my vote goes to the Denon 5910ci universal player, but the closeout deals appear to be gone.

FWIW, I see that amazon is still offering the closeout deal on the Denon 2930ci at $199 thru Vann's. Search amazon for: denon sacd player

For SACD discs, my vote goes to Linn SACD discs. I suggest that you make some random purchases of used Linn SACD discs on amazon.

In my experience, the amazon user reviews are a very good indicator as to whether a disc is worth buying.

Cheers

Are we talkin' stereo or multi-channel?

What other SACD players have you tried and your "findings".

Marantz is stereo. I have tried the Sony XA-777, Sony XA-9000, Esoteric SA-60, Marantz SA11s2, Marantz SA-7s1 at home and owned most of them. I like the Marantz players the best. Best deal was the XA-9000.

BD,
What do you mean by that the XA-9000 was the best deal? Cheapest, best sound per dollar, or??

I've heard the latest Marantz universal transport though under much less than ideal conditions. Room was optimized for theater and nothing else to compare to so I'm reluctant to draw any conclusions.

BD,
What do you mean by that the XA-9000 was the best deal? Cheapest, best sound per dollar, or??

I've heard the latest Marantz universal transport though under much less than ideal conditions. Room was optimized for theater and nothing else to compare to so I'm reluctant to draw any conclusions.Via analog, mebbe, but SACD output via HDMI is limited to 16/44.1.

BD,
What do you mean by that the XA-9000 was the best deal? Cheapest, best sound per dollar, or??

I've heard the latest Marantz universal transport though under much less than ideal conditions. Room was optimized for theater and nothing else to compare to so I'm reluctant to draw any conclusions.

XA-9000 had the best price to performance ratio, buying used. Do not know anything about the universal transport. The SA-7s1 was an Absolute Sound product of the year. Secret's Johnson, "The Marantz SA-7S1 is the smoothest sounding SACD player I have ever heard." http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/sacd-players/657-marantz-sa-7si-sacd-player.html?start=4 I believe it's a stellar player. Best player I have ever had by a very wide margin. Check out the Secrets measurements.