Hi, as of today I am the proud owner of a Panasonic 46g10 plasma TV. I don't have cable or satellite. Needless to say, I can no longer record on my old VCR. So how can I record OTA programs? What are my HD options? What are my non-HD options?

Thanks.

Nice post listing some of your choices. Post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17251356&postcount=6)

Hi, as of today I am the proud owner of a Panasonic 46g10 plasma TV. I don't have cable or satellite. Needless to say, I can no longer record on my old VCR. So how can I record OTA programs? What are my HD options? What are my non-HD options?

Thanks.

If you wish to continue recording with your old VCR use a good quality CECB connected to your VCR's RF or composite inputs. My CECBs are among the best, the Zenith DTT901 and Zinwell ZAT-970A. The Zinwell has eight event channel changing capabilities.

A DVD recorder with an ATSC tuner will record OTA signals. Most VHS/DVD combo recorders will not record ATSC signals to videotape, only to DVD.

Both these recording methods provide recordings in Standard Definition, not HD.

Hi thanks for your reply. I have a Tivax CECB, which I tried to hook up--I ran the antenna into the Tivax, went from the Tivax into the VCR, then from the VCR to the TV. I got only a few stations and the ones I got had a very poor picture. And I couldn't record anything. I think I need to set the VCR to channel 3 but I can't get the VCR menu to come up. I'm obviously doing something wrong; any suggestions?

Thanks.

-Antenna to CECB
-CECB to VCR
-VCR to HDTV connecting with yellow video, red/white audio cables

Turn tv to input channel to see vcr feed. Turn VCR to either ch 3 or it's line input-depending on how you've connected the CECB to the vcr, to see and record OTA signal feed.
VCR's menu should display whether you're watching ch3 or the line input.

Hi thanks for your reply. I have a Tivax CECB, which I tried to hook up--I ran the antenna into the Tivax, went from the Tivax into the VCR, then from the VCR to the TV. I got only a few stations and the ones I got had a very poor picture. And I couldn't record anything. I think I need to set the VCR to channel 3 but I can't get the VCR menu to come up. I'm obviously doing something wrong; any suggestions?

Thanks.

Try reorienting the antenna ? It will come in or not -- you shouldn't get a 'poor' picture .

Is it going from CECB into the VCR's LINE INPUT or are you using the RF ? I'd suggest going antenna to CECB, S-video (if there is one) or video RED WHITE and YELLOW standard cables to the VCR input, and then use the best possible output via video cables from the vcr to the TV. See if your vcr has a LINE 1 or AUX input and try using that rather than the RF(antenna in) on the VCR. You may be losing some of the signal = "poor picture" . OTA should be good, or off...

A side point here...

S-Video does not carry audio. It's video only.

The red and white RCA cables only carry audio, not video. Red for right audio channel, white for left.

The yellow RCA cables carry composite video.

Hi, as of today I am the proud owner of a Panasonic 46g10 plasma TV. I don't have cable or satellite. Needless to say, I can no longer record on my old VCR. So how can I record OTA programs? What are my HD options? What are my non-HD options?

Thanks.That is a very nice plasma -- tack sharp picture. It would be such a waste to buy such a display and then feed it with a VCR or even an SD DVD recorder. Once you start watching OTA HD you won't want to bother with SD recording devices. Look at the DTVPal DVR (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15369795#post15369795) for HD recording on the cheap. It works but it can have some bugs that most people who have one are willing to put up with. At the high end is the TiVo HD (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11126048#post11126048). It cost 2X the price of the Pal DVR but you get what you pay for -- extreme reliability, expandability and the ability to transfer anything you record OTA to your PC via it's network connection, for storage or burning to BluRay or DVD.

I bought a TiVo HD to feed my 50" Panasonic plasma OTA and have never looked back.

I too would strongly recommend the purchase of a OTA recorder with true HD output, such as the DTVPal DVR or the TivoHD. DVD recorder output is comparatively poor on displays like the Panasonic 46G10.

Another good option is a Sonicview 8000HD, it records in Hd, uses the EPG that the station sends out and uses external USB hard drives - works excellent and has unlimited storage capacity due to the usb hard drive.

Another good option is a Sonicview 8000HD, it records in Hd, uses the EPG that the station sends out and uses external USB hard drives - works excellent and has unlimited storage capacity due to the usb hard drive.Everything I see on the Sonicview HD8000 states that it is FTA DVR (i.e. for satellite signals from a 6' dish). The specs do not list an ATSC tuner, as necessary to record HD signals from an off-air antenna. Is OTA -- not FTA -- an unadvertised capability?

Edit: Interesting. I see it works for OTA too (http://www.ftaconcept.com/showthread.php?t=40936).

Yeah, on some of the dealer websites they indicate the ATSC tuner. Anyone ever use one of these personally? I have a friend who would like an alternative to TiVo and DTV Pal.

Yeah, on some of the dealer websites they indicate the ATSC tuner. Anyone ever use one of these personally? I have a friend who would like an alternative to TiVo and DTV Pal.

not sure this is accurate but found this on their 'official' site -
http://www.sonicview8000hd.com/sonicview-specs.html

says it has two tuners, one ATSC . Interesting item :cool:



QPSK Tuner (Sharp NIM)
RS232C, 3 RCA Output for CVBS Video, Audio L/R, 3 RCA Output for Composite
( Y,Pb,Pr), S-VHS Output, SPDIF Digital Audio AC3 Bitstream Output, HDTV Output
Fully Comply with ATSC HDTV (VSB) & DVB-S MPEG 2
Decodes All ATSC HDTV Standard Video Formats Including 576i / 576p / 720p / 1080i
Down - convert HDTV to SDTV
Selectable Output Video Format : 1080i / 720p / 480p / 480i
2 Tuners : ATSC Tuner (Sharp,NIM Type) & QPSK (Samsung, NIM Type)
USB 2.0 PVR Function Supported : 1 Channel Record & Play with an external HDD
EPG Supported, Channel Naming Supported
Full Colors & User Friendly GUI for Easy Control
Highly Speedy Channel Changing Time : Less than 1 Sec.
6,000 Channels Memory Capacity for TV & Radio Programs
8 Favorite Channel List Group Programmable
Channel Sorting by FTA, CAS, Satellite, Alphabetic Order & Network
Zoom In-Out Function for Watching Screen
Various Aspect Ratio with 4:3, Letter Box, Full Screen & 16:9
Background Graphic Display for Radio Program Channels
Parental Lock Function using Master PIN Code
Automatic NTSC / PAL Detection and Simple Video Converter (NTSC <-> PAL)
Blue VFD Display : 9 Character 1 Line
Real Time Clock
Low Power Consumption Supported : Less Than 5 W in Stand-By Mode
DiSEqC 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 & USALS / 22KHz Switching Control Supported
HDTV Output Connector
S/PDIF for Digital Audio AC-3 Bitstream Output
S-VHS Output Connector
Component Output with 3 RCA Jacks : Y, Pb, Pr
3 RCA Jacks for CVBS Video & Audio L/R Output
RS232C 9-PIN Connector : Twisted Cable
PC to Set S/W Downloading using Window based Specific Program
Set to Set S/W Downloading (Main Program & Channel List Data File)
Useful Luminous Universal Remote Control Unit

2 Year Manufacture Warranty via the manufacturer, www.sonicviewusa.com.. Made in KOREA

some kind of lawsuit going on with Dish see: http://www.sonicviewusa.com/

Yeah, on some of the dealer websites they indicate the ATSC tuner. Anyone ever use one of these personally? I have a friend who would like an alternative to TiVo and DTV Pal.Get one quick, they're being sued (http://www.sonicviewusa.com/) by DirecTV and EchoStar.

My reading of the specs suggests the EPG is from PSIP data. So unless this box can set the time manually and independently of PSIP time, I wouldn't touch it.

also, doesn't seem to have any auxilliary input options. Guess it has a very limited use, but if that happens to be what you need, it might be the perfect solution for someone.

And people wonder why more companies don't come out with non fee based HD DVRs:( Maybe Dish is trying to pass on some of the grief they've got from Tivo:D

And people wonder why more companies don't come out with non fee based HD DVRs:( Maybe Dish is trying to pass on some of the grief they've got from Tivo:DIt really isn't a DVR. It's primarily a satellite receiver with some PVR functionality if you add an external HDD to the USB port. For that price and given the guide is PSIP, it would seem a no-brainer to add the extra $70 and get a Pal DVR for OTA.

This caught my eye today too, after a few people were talking about slingbox. it seems to also function as a PVR --you can attach a USB drive and it has wireless. Might work for live tv recording ?

HAVA Titanium HD TV Device with Wi-Fi
Doesn't work with a mac (boo!) but it has some interesting features

# Input/output: HD input, A/V input, S-Video input, aux audio, HD output, A/V output, S-Video output, Ethernet (RJ-45), IR blaster, two USB 2.0 ports
# System requirements: Windows XP (Home, Professional, MCE) with SP2, Windows Vista (all versions); Pentium 1.2 GHz or equivalent processor (1.5 GHz or higher recommended); 512 MB RAM (Windows XP), 1 GB (Windows Vista); 75 MB disk space to install the HAVA software, at least 500 MB disk space for time-shifting, 10 GB disk space recommended for recording; available RJ-45 Ethernet port; wired/wireless router
# Video format: MPEG-2, MPEG4



http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000YQ6DIS/ref=cm_rdp_product

Think it could work to both stream AND dub to external HD with a variety of sources -- I know nothing about it or the company, but it did seem intriguing

This caught my eye today too, after a few people were talking about slingbox. it seems to also function as a PVR --you can attach a USB drive and it has wireless. Might work for live tv recording ?

Doesn't work with a mac (boo!) but it has some interesting featuresThe HAVA a Slingbox-type device that alows you to view re-encoded SD on any networked computer in your home, as well as over the Internet. You can set the HAVA to save this re-encoded SD as a recording to your computer or a USB-connected hard drive.

From what I understand, recording is setup with timers (no EPG of any kind) using the bundled Windows software, but once the timers are setup, the HAVA will record without a PC connection. That said, the HAVA cannot function as a standalone playback device as there's no video output (only video passthrough) for a TV; you can only view recordings on the drive from your Windows computer.

Disclaimer: I have no first-hand experience with this device.

How well does the SV Hd-8000 work for OTA HD recording, well it works flawlessly. I have been using mine for quite a long time now.

Has a built in ATSC tuner. Manual time can be set or auto, your choice.

I wouldn't worry about the Dish suit, these units are 100% legal to own and use. Some individuals modified them to receive signals illegally.

Not sure on scheduling recordings just using time, I haven't tried it but I think it can do it.
I can try if someone is interested.

A 500gig USB drive is about $69, that is alot of recording

Granted, there are not any inputs, but what would you input anyways???

I have it set to record a show for 9AM (on ch. 4, it is currently on ch2), no epg info avail.

So I want to see if
a. it will record as set via time only
b. change channels auto. for the recording

Anything else you guys want checked out?

While this forum does occasionally get into true HD recording devices talk, I think the best forum for discussions on the Sonicview hd8000 might be the HDTV Recorders (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=42) forum, right here on AVS.
A quick search only came up with 3 threads talking about the hd8000, the first one from 10/08 but none really covered the features of this box, or went anywhere.
If I were you and wanted to spread the word on this intriguing box I might start a thread in the HDTV Recorders Forum with a title something like "Sonicview 8000HD FTA ATSC STB-recorder" Since the box isn't a DVR out of the box but requires a optional USB HDD I don't know of you could call it a DVR(at least out of the box) but it sounds easy enough to upgrade to a DVR. People are frequently coming to the DVD recorders section looking for something to record in true HD(and on the cheap). It would be nice to be able to suggest something other than the DTV Pal DVR which hasn't had the best reliability track record so far. The OP of your thread would want to include all you knew about the hd8000 and links to various resources. If there's a lawsuit pending against Sonicview don't hide it but rather explain why you think it might not be anything to worry about.

For people coming from DVRs I can see the single tuner and lack of reliable guide as being a problem(PSIP isn't reliable in many areas) but for someone coming from a VCR or DVDR that shouldn't be as much of an issue if one can manually program start/stop times and channel. Reliability is a key though, for most people used to VCRs and to a lesser degree modern DVDRs they're not used to bugs or missed events, that's where I have a hard time suggesting the Pal DVR.

Also depending on how much you want to get involved you might want to think about having Ken H (administrator of the HDTV Recorders forum) adding a line about FTA recorders and including the Sonicview in his Official AVS HDTV Recording Synopsis thread. He has Dish and Direct listed but not FTA. This is the thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1061644) I'm thinking about, just another thought on what you might want to do to spread the word about this rather unknown box. To have Ken add FTA to his thread you could pose the question in the thread and let him decide if he deemed it appropriate. Although I think your first step should be to start a nice thread on your device, if it catches on Ken H may add it on his own to his sticky thread.
For a look at a great OP check out either bfdtv's Tivo HD (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11126048&postcount=2) thread, or even Wajo's 2160 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940657) thread, not that you'd have to go to the extent that either of these people did on their great OPs, but it gives you an idea to build on.

An HTPC is always an option, especially if you happen to have a suitable spare PC laying around. Just add a dual tuner card. I have not done this yet, but have been tempted several times.

An HTPC is always an option, especially if you happen to have a suitable spare PC laying around. Just add a dual tuner card. I have not done this yet, but have been tempted several times.

I record OTA to my mac all the time using a usb EyeTv 250 Plus, which offloads some of the processing to the external box... the results are fine for viewing on a 17 inch laptop screen. I think the original question here was about digitizing for viewing on a 46 inch plasma. No idea how well something like that would scale up. I imagine it would take a lot of processing power for high res at that size, so not sure a "spare PC laying around" would have the requisite RAM, storage capacity, etc for processing really HQ video. It might have some hidden costs to beef it up? But, that said, recording to the computer is definitely a good option.

I record OTA to my mac all the time using a usb EyeTv 250 Plus, which offloads some of the processing to the external box... the results are fine for viewing on a 17 inch laptop screen. I think the original question here was about digitizing for viewing on a 46 inch plasma. No idea how well something like that would scale up. I imagine it would take a lot of processing power for high res at that size, so not sure a "spare PC laying around" would have the requisite RAM, storage capacity, etc for processing really HQ video. It might have some hidden costs to beef it up? But, that said, recording to the computer is definitely a good option.


From what I've read on the HTPC forum I got the impression that recording & playing back of OTA HD was not a major problem. And that many people were using the on-board graphics chip set for playing back through the included HDMI output. Yes you needed some kind of CPU & GPU power, but not high end stuff unless you want to play Blu-ray. Some people were using the $399 Dell studio slim with a Dell installed $69 tuner card. IOW it could be done for less than $500, and that includes a decent size hard drive. Or put in your own dual tuner card & it would still be about $500.

Everytime a Comcast promo offer expires I think about going that route. I would use two dual tuner cards. Not that I would necessarily record 4 programs at once, but this would help if you wanted to start recording a minute early so you did not miss the beginning. Or sometimes programs run over a minute or two. having an extra tuner would handle this overlap.

Again, I'm just going by what I've read & may be way off base, but an HTPC seems like a reasonable way to go. I suggest anyone who is interested to go to the HTPC forum as there is a tremendous amount of information there on buying or building a HTPC.

We went HTPC about 6 months ago, best thing we ever did. OTA recording is easy, Dual tuner card is $60 (Avermedia Duet). Plus you can play your DVD's/online video/photos/MP3's etc. For the OTA crowd it's a one box solution.

We went HTPC about 6 months ago, best thing we ever did. OTA recording is easy, Dual tuner card is $60 (Avermedia Duet). Plus you can play your DVD's/online video/photos/MP3's etc. For the OTA crowd it's a one box solution.


Did you buy or build the HTPC?
Which CPU are you using?
On board graphics or separate graphics card?
Has it ever missed a recording or has it been 100% reliable?

Thanks in advance for any information.

Thanks for the feedback jjeff.
Like alot of people, I wanted to record OTA shows and watch them later OR had 2 on at the same time but different channels. I had to have HD recording though and while this isn't a fancy option, anyone that has ever used a VCR can use the sonicview.

I'll have to take the time to start a new thread in the right area :)

Check this out, from the HDTV Technical Forum.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1192114

Be sure to read message number 28.

I read that post and it made me sooooo mad. I loved the selling Manhattan for $24 worth of beads analogy;)

We went HTPC about 6 months ago, best thing we ever did. OTA recording is easy, Dual tuner card is $60 (Avermedia Duet). Plus you can play your DVD's/online video/photos/MP3's etc. For the OTA crowd it's a one box solution.

Yep. Some threads around here question why anyone wants/needs an HTPC over standalones for Blu-Ray playing and perhaps satellite, but for OTA HD, it's sweet.

You can play anything, etc, but, for TV, use as many tuners as you want, use as many hard drives and sizes you want, have it auto-re-encode shows if you want, view recordings in other rooms via media extenders.... It's basically a souped-up Tivo with no monthly fees, and also doubles as an actual computer if you need it.

Sure, the initial setup is a bit harder than plugging a few cables into a standalone, and they're not for everybody, but hey.

Not sure what someone meant about upscaling to a TV that big. If you record a show in 1080, it plays in 1080. Don't know why TV size would matter.

my media center with windows 7 does a excellent job of recording hd i bought a cheap hdtv tuner card and works great can only record one program at a time but can start watching from begining while it is recording havent bought the dvi to hdmi cable to run to my lcd tv but will this month, hope it looks as good as my monitor.

Thanks for all the insight on this thread. I was not even looking at a TiVoHD - just wanting to get a tuner card to a PC. But because of the download capability to PC using a TivoHD and the reliability factor and good interface (even at a high price with lifetime sub), I am now actually leaning on a unit myself. I would forego the initial savings of buying parts to get HDTV and instead invest the money on a unit that will get me my OTA HD recordings, spit it out in mpg and use my PC intead to store all the programs I need.

But because of the download capability to PC using a TivoHD and the reliability factor and good interface (even at a high price with lifetime sub), I am now actually leaning on a unit myself. I would forego the initial savings of buying parts to get HDTV and instead invest the money on a unit that will get me my OTA HD recordings, spit it out in mpg and use my PC intead to store all the programs I need.Once you go TiVo+PC don't forget it works both ways. I have a bunch of DVD movies that I have ripped, converted to .mpg and stored on a disk farm in the TiVo directory. They are available for instant playback by streaming through the TiVo. And don't forget the TiVo streams NetFlix -- and now with the new search function you can search the NetFlix streaming library right from the TiVo and select content to stream without having to go into one's NetFlix account and load them into your streaming que. The DVR capability is only half the functionality. The price is high because the TiVo is high-end equipment -- you get what you pay for.

While researching further about Tivo, I came across RatShack's SiliconDust HomeRun dual tuner sale for less than 100 so I just purchased one for pickup. I'll check this out with Windows 7 and see how this goes for now.

You mean this? Yeah, like the glib geek says, it does look cool. You can send HDTV to every computer on your home network for minimal cost and hardware clutter -- especially practical for laptops.

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