The user review's I have read have been overwhelmingly terrible. Users have cited problems with the unit breaking down, no where to get it repaired, and an unresponsive customer service department at Dish Net. To make matters worse, the unit has been discontinued, presumably because of the magnitude of its problems. Has anyone had the DTVPal DVR for more than a year and would still recommend it? Thanks for your help.

I'll be interested in seeing the replies to this as well. I'm a TiVo fan, for sure, but if I've been recommending folks who don't care about recording cable to consider the DTVPal DVR, because it is so much less expensive. If, however, it is more trouble than it is worth, then perhaps I should add a caveat to my recommendations, to that effect.

I have had mine for about 8 months and have had zero issues. Its a great machine. Not a Tivo Killer but for me, who got rid of my cable, it is great. As for the issues people are seeing. I can not reproduce any of them. Mine never reboots. The guide always works. I will say people are more apt to complain the praise so you are going to see the issues glare out at you.

To make matters worse, the unit has been discontinued, presumably because of the magnitude of its problems. Has anyone had the DTVPal DVR for more than a year and would still recommend it? Thanks for your help.
The DTVPal DVR was not discontinued. Dish Network just limited distribution, presumably as a cost cutting measure.

The user review's I have read have been overwhelmingly terrible. Users have cited problems with the unit breaking down, no where to get it repaired, and an unresponsive customer service department at Dish Net.

Some issues remain, but the most serious issues (crashes, reboots, etc) were resolved with firmware updates. Many complaints were posted before those issues were resolved.

Reports on the DTVPal DVR will vary widely depending on user expectations. Expect rave reviews from those who were previously using VCRs and traditional DVD recorders. Expect less enthusiastic reviews from those who previously had a TiVo or a modern cable (ex: Passport) or satellite (ex: HR20, ViP622/ViP722) DVR. If one were going to stereotype:

Very satisfied with DTVPal DVR
previously used VCR or DVD recorder
extended guide information (TVGOS) available in market
doesn't mind missing the occasional show
doesn't mind regular timer maintenance
not overly bothered by tedious tasks
family records and watches just a handful of programs
doesn't need or expect technical support

Less satisfied with DTVPal DVR
previously used a modern DVR
expected TiVo-like functionality
demands 100% reliability; will not tolerate missed programs
expects DVR to always record every episode of their shows without any maintenance
does not tolerate tedious tasks
family records and watches many programs
needs or expects technical support

Please describe what you mean by "regular timer maintenance". I previously used a VCR. I would, indeed, expect technical support if the unit got squirrely or ceased to function.

Please describe what you mean by "regular timer maintenance". I previously used a VCR. I would, indeed, expect technical support if the unit got squirrely or ceased to function.If you currently using a VCR or a traditional DVD recorder, then you are accustomed to timer maintenance.

By regular timer maintenance, I'm referring the the general need to set and update timers as on any VCR or DVD recorder. Examples:

update a timer when a program changes the day of the week
update a timer when the program changes its start and end time
update a timer when the program duration changes (ex: 72min episode instead of a 60min episode)
remove a timer when your program isn't showing a certain week so you can add a new timer to record a different program
remove a timer when you have two timers set and want to record something different
remove a timer when a show is canceled
remove a timer when there are no more remaining episodes of a show
With modern name-based DVRs, you don't have to deal with any of these things. Had you used such a DVR for a few years, these things could drive you crazy. But since you're accustomed to a VCR, you should have no problem with it.

As far as technical support, Dish Network will send you a refurbished replacement if you have trouble with the unit in the first 90 days. That's about the extent of the assistance they offer for the product. For support, you'll have to rely on forums such as this one; members on this forum tend to be very helpful and the FAQ is regularly updated with known issues and workarounds.

I understand. Thank you. I still don't see anyone coming forward who has had a DTVPal DVR for a year or more and recommends buying one.

I understand. Thank you. I still don't see anyone coming forward who has had a DTVPal DVR for a year or more and recommends buying one.No one has had the DTVPal DVR for a year. Dish Network didn't ship the first units until late December, 2008.

Many of the early comments were negative, because a substantial number of DTVPal DVRs exhibited frequent reboots until the F206 firmware was released on April 9. With the F206 software, the DTVPal DVR would often lose the correct time, causing recordings to start and end at the wrong times; that issue was addressed with the F208 firmware on July 9.

Look through the DTVPal DVR thread and you'll find plenty of positive comments since July 9.

I understand. Thank you. I still don't see anyone coming forward who has had a DTVPal DVR for a year or more and recommends buying one.

As you were told yesterday in the other thread, this DVR has only been available for nine months, so you will see Sasquatch before you find someone who's owned it for more than a year.

Can any DTVPal DVR be updated with the F208 firmware by the user regardless of when the unit was manufactured? Any thoughts on whether buying a used unit on e-bay is too big of a risk? Thanks.

Can any DTVPal DVR be updated with the F208 firmware by the user regardless of when the unit was manufactured?Yes.

Beware of defective units on ebay, however, because Dish will not replace defective units after 90 days. If it were me, I would opt for a new unit from Sears, with the extended warranty for an extra $45.

Good point. I cannot find on the Dish webpage where they say they will replace the unit if defective up to 90 days. I'd like to see that in writing before ordering the unit from Digitalstar.

Good point. I cannot find on the Dish webpage where they say they will replace the unit if defective up to 90 days. I'd like to see that in writing before ordering the unit from Digitalstar.The product has a 90-day warranty.

They'll ship you a refurbished replacement if you have problems in the first 90 days.

Good point. I cannot find on the Dish webpage where they say they will replace the unit if defective up to 90 days. I'd like to see that in writing before ordering the unit from Digitalstar.

Based on everything you've posted, I would recommend you not buy a DTVPal DVR.

based on everything you've posted, i would recommend you not buy a dtvpal dvr.

+ 1

It's unfortunate that there are no competing products.  TiVo and Moxi units exist but aren't really comparable.

I suspect that there are no competing products because folks just don't care to spend the money for such products. They got used to cheap-o VCRs, and I guess they are happy enough with such devices.

I suspect that there are no competing products because folks just don't care to spend the money for such products. Well... I bought a KWorld ATSC340U from buy.com for $15 (after rebate), and I've been rather pleased with that purchase. It's not really competing with a DTVPal since one's computer cannot necessarily display on a TV. And it's way more trouble, and has zero WAF. But at least it can record programs right onto your hard drive, unencrypted, and in HD.

Yup, there are a lot of options if you're willing to compromise.

The user review's I have read have been overwhelmingly terrible. Users have cited problems with the unit breaking down, no where to get it repaired, and an unresponsive customer service department at Dish Net. To make matters worse, the unit has been discontinued, presumably because of the magnitude of its problems. Has anyone had the DTVPal DVR for more than a year and would still recommend it? Thanks for your help.

Biddle,

Around 8 months ago I briefly researched for a reasonably priced recording solution to replace wife's VCR due to the Digital transition.

I found much to her dismay VERY few OTA ATSC Non-Subscription *HARD-DRIVE based type recorders. The "story" being that the subsidized cable /satellite boxes had pretty much decimated the market.... so the mfg'rs pulled out of the market.

(I excluded Subscription (Tivo), GREY-MARKET, or "high-priced" units)
GREY-MARKET=Not sold or supported by the manufacturer for sale in the North American market.)

*Hard drive recording is light years ahead of recording to a dvd disc, RW disc holds 4.7gb.. which isn't much space. Additionally you can expect the dvd burner to burn out much sooner than a hard drive.

Sad thing is right now due to the digital transition, and with Canada going digital soon that there is a HUGE market that the manufacturers are ignoring. There are millions upon millions of persons with VCR's , and/or ANALOGUE type DVR's looking for a recording solution.

(Hint-Hint to all the manufacturer's /insiders who may run across this post...
1: Every person that has a VCR, and/or ANALOGUE DVR without a ATSC tuner is a potential customer.. Think about how many VCR's are out there with ANALOGUE tuners in them which are due to the digital transition pretty much useless.
2: There is a market "out there" that due to the digital transition should be viable now more so than before the cut-off.

EG: Due to the digital transition with the increased number of OTA stations /programing being transmitted in "crystal clear DVD like clarity " that rivals and surpasses what you get with cable or satellite and most being in HD people ARE looking for VCR and ANALOGUE DVR replacements. Due to these factors, people that would a few years ago who would have not have been interested in a OTA recorder looking to save money are seriously thinking about dropping their cable, going to OTA only.

Translation: There is a large numbers of potential customers out there who would buy hard drive based OTA recorders.)


***************

Philips 3575/3576 and Magnavox H2160
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940657

DTVPal DVR - 90 day warranty- Sort of tells you how much faith they have in the unit, eh?


Comparison Chart of available OTA recorders
(Compare these specs to what a PC running a SiliconDust HDHomeRun, or SEVERAL HDHomeRun tuners can do! NOTE: Each HDHomeRun has (2) tuners- So with a PC you can record 2,4, 6, 8? channels.... Additionally note: With a PC based solution hard drive space is unlimited /easily expanded)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17251356&postcount=6



*******************

After reviewing all the Pro's, and Con's I went with a PC based recording solution (and yes it is viewable via TV thru S-Video, and to the 61" Big screen Tv via HDMI/DVI.)

(*Note that most ALL TV's these days have HDMI, so PC to TV should not be much of a problem.)

Solution I arrived at was a SiliconDust HDHomeRun tuner and a PC running WIN7 Media Center which gives me GUIDE data, with detailed program info out to (2) weeks.

PS: Since the tuner plugs into your "NETWORK" ....The tuner(s) and guide programming are accessible via ANY computer on your network... Additionally note you can EXPAND your system (add tuners), and EXPAND HARD DRIVE SPACE VERY EASILY SINCE you are using a PC.

NOTE: If buying used, you want to try to find a REV 2 unit... On the bottom of the unit is a sticker... if if starts of 1013 (or above) I'm pretty sure it's a REV 2 unit.

To verify /get support check out the support forums:

http://www.silicondust.com/forum/


HDHomeRun® Networked Digital TV Tuner

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815327005

http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun_atsc

HDHomeRun® Networked Digital TV Tuner
One Box, Two Digital Tuners, Anywhere on Your Network

* Watch TV from any computer on your network.
* Record full 1080i broadcast resolution.
* Pause, rewind, fast-forward live TV.
* Schedule and record all your favorite TV shows.
* Expand with multiple HDHomeRun devices.

TV sources

* For use in United States and Canada:
o ATSC over-the-air digital TV.
o Unencrypted digital cable.
* For Europe, Australia, and New Zealand click here

Works with popular DVR software:

* Pause, rewind, fast-forward live TV.
* Record all your favorite TV shows by name.
* Integrated TV guide (provided by the DVR software).

Seamless operation with multiple computers:

* Run Vista Media Center on multiple computers sharing the pool of HDHomeRun tuners.
* Tuners are automatically allocated between computers as needed.
* Multiple HDHomeRun units can be used together to expand the number of tuners.
* Tuner pooling works with Windows Media Center, BeyondTV, SageTV, GBPVR, MediaPortal, and TotalMedia.
* Free software/firmware upgrade available for download.

Compatible With:

* Windows Media Center:
o MCE 2005 (32/64-bit)
o Vista WMC (32/64-bit)
o WMC TV Pack (32/64-bit)
o Windows 7 (32/64-bit)
* Elgato EyeTV - DVR for Mac
* MythTV - DVR for Linux
* SnapStream BeyondTV - DVR for Windows
* SageTV - DVR for Windows/Linux/Mac
* MediaPortal - DVR for Windows
* GB-PVR - DVR for Windows
* VLC - Multi-platform media viewer
* TSReader - MPEG-2 transport stream analysis

Specifications:

* 8-VSB (ATSC over-the-air digital TV)
* QAM64/256 (unencrypted digital cable TV)
* 100baseTX high speed network
* 1 year warranty

Requirements:

* 2.8 GHz Pentium 4 or better for HD playback
* 512 MB RAM (1 GB recommended)
* 1-4 GB per 1/2 hour of DTV recording
.

I purchased a DTVPalDVR from Dish Network in January 09'. It is actually an Echostar Technologies L.L.C., FC Model ID032. According to the embossed data on the actual plastic of the back cover.
dtvpal.com/
It died in mid September 09'. Dish Network refuses to replace it or repair it even for a fee. They can not even recommend a place to get it fixed. I am now told it had only a 90 day warranty which was not obvious at the time of purchase as you only find out once you read the manual that comes with the unit. I contacted EchoStar the original marketing outfit for the DTVPalDVR under the TR-50 model name.
At ces.cnet.com/8301-13855_1-9840910-67.html &
echostar.com/Products/TechSupport.aspx and pretty much I was ignored completely.

When it worked it did so very nicely, but I don’t want to buy a new one every ¾ of a year. Any suggestions on how to proceed to get it fixed. I’m thinking a computer repair shop might be in a position to do it, but I have not found one yet.
The bar codes are RRETAT02214L for the unit and RR67517T02110M for the Main Board.

OK I won't say yes get one or no don't but here is my story for you:
- I only watch OTA (HD for 10 years or so now with one of the first RCA DTC100)
- I have a replay TV 5080 which was the absolute best ever, but unfortunately became obsolete on digital transition
- I watched for months about a replacement, was aware of issues with the DTVpal DVR, watched over issues being posted pre F208, and finally made the move post F208 as there was no other satisfactory solution.
- I knew I was getting from better to worse (no recording by name, etc..)

So I think first that bfdtv has got it right on the money as to expectations/satisfaction.

This being said, my unit (F208- LA market) is a total POS. I'm having all the problems mentionned plus more, and Dish network is dismal in its customer service, to the point that I have no satisfactory solution.
The unit oes the following (documented for months):
- reboots often (several times a week, even 2-3 times a night while watching sometimes)
- Arbitrarily starts or cancels recordings on its own
- double record on its own (two recordings of the same show)
- Remote stops working right (buttons acquire different functionality), yet turning on or off doesn't solve, I have to unplug/replug
- Records shows without sound (only happened once or twice)

As far as Dish network:
- First call useless
- Second call, they will replace, ship me a new unit. I never got it, they couldn't show me tracking
- Fourth call, they will ship again. Again never received, no tracking
- Fifth call they said someone had given me a wrong process, that they would send me a box for me to ship the original unit back FIRST (before I checked everytime and they said I had to ship the broken one back AFTER I received the replacement, also there is no doubt about the model number and name I gave them so no unit confusion). Never received the box. Incidentally before someone makes another assumption, my shipping address was correct as since the first shipment I am getting their junk mail, account status mail,, etc, and it was verified many times already.
- Sixth call, with escalation, now I have to ship back on my own dime and believe that they will ship me one when they get the old one. Yeah right, so I pay for their crap, have to believe what they say with three proofs of utter ******** so far, and lose the use of my unit and hope I may get a refurbished one (or not and then be a at loss to find where it is when I don't get anything).
- I'm contemplating what to do, I have no trust in shipping it back first.

So basically like many people I'm screwed. Whether it was bad luck or too high expectations, my unit is a POS and I'm stuck with it. It still somewhat functions and is better than nothing or a VCR for that matter, so fine, but I so miss my replay TV 5080 (my CECBs are zenith 900 and DS 5500 so no luck controlling them either). Everyday I have to watch whether it's still recording what is planned, and eventually erase what it recorded unplanned. Then suffer a few reboots here and there, and/or unplugs/replugs. With that in mind it kind of serves its function OK I guess.
BTW a feature I'm not sure people have mentionned. The number of searches you can store is limited and I think it's like 10 or so (small anyway, I use a stored search to check if it cancels records I set up, or to set up again)
The other thing is that it can't be set with a static address (I still suspect that maybe the DHCP lease renewal may interfere, but no hard proof).

In short it's a POS, I will never deal with Dish Network if I can help it, but it's still my best option AFAIK. Some people seem extremely happy however.

Could Samsung make a PN63B650 with no buzz, PIP (or 2 tuners) and integrated DVR???? Please Mr Samsung?

maybe I'm one of the lucky ones. Are there things I'd like to see fixed/improved? sure. I have a VIP622 which is much better but for the most part my DTVpal DVR works fine. 1Tb drive is getting installed next week :)

I've had mine since Christmas day last year. I have used mine almost every day since then and I'm still very happy with the unit.

I did upgrade the harddrive from 250GB to 500GB with no issues - - - I think the extra space helps and I could upgrade it again to 1TB but see no reason to do that.

I started with firmware F201 and now use F208. Dish has fixed many small issues along the way - - - I think using the DTVPal DVR is very easy.

Do I think it is for everyone - - - NO - - - but for folks like me who either use OTA or FTA satellite for TV - - - the DTVPal is a great unit.

My brother also has one and he uses it every day - - - he loves his.

I purchased a DTVPalDVR from Dish Network in January 09'.

It died in mid September 09'. Dish Network refuses to replace it or repair it even for a fee. They can not even recommend a place to get it fixed. I am now told it had only a 90 day warranty

When it worked it did so very nicely, but I don’t want to buy a new one every ¾ of a year. Any suggestions on how to proceed to get it fixed.Unless the unit is a total black-out, there is a chance the problem is hard disk failure. The HDD is user replaceable -- although not an easy task for someone who is not comfortable digging around inside a PC. If it is more than that then I'm afraid the unit is a total loss after 90 days. Dish does not offer in-house repair and does not have any 3rd party repair network for the DTVPal DVR, so no repair shop will be able to help you if they cannot obtain parts (I'm sure you could find a repair shop that will take your money to diagnose the problem). You bought the unit back in Jan '09 during the beta phase so you only paid $250 for it. Even if they could get parts, taking it to any repair shop out of warranty will incur a cost that would rival the cost of a new unit. In other words, like most sub-$300 units, the DTVPal DVR is throw-away electronics. There is a reason the Pal DVR costs half the price of a TiVo -- or rather, a TiVo costs 2X the price of a Pal DVR. Because of the substantial cost savings, a lot of people are willing to take a chance on the Pal DVR, compromise their expectations, accept the lower level of functionality and live with all the flaws. This gamble seems to have paid off for a large number of people here -- they have units that function good enough for them at a price point they are happy with. It's only a problem for those who get burned when their unit is a brick in less than a year.

Perhaps the new models sold at Sears have a little better build quality. In any event, if you buy a new DTVPal DVR you can and should buy the Sears 2yr extended warranty. The only real downer is that once you do buy your second unit + warranty from Sears, you realize you've essentially paid the cost of a TiVo HD and yet just have a Pal DVR.

Have been working with no issues at all (six months), have been at 206. Only minor issue was TVGOS was lost few months back and now with tip on this forum about factory reset, is has resurrected itself too, so I am happy like a clam.

It's unfortunate that there are no competing products.There are plenty of Sony DHG-HDD250 DVRs' on ebay. Prices run between $330 and $475 for the common 350 and around $600 to $800 for the less common DHG-HDD500 with dual HDDs'. As long as you live in an area that has TVGOS available without issues.
(BTW, this is about the only time I would recommend Sony. ;))

I'm very happy with the DTV Pal DVR after 6 months of ownership. I purchased it at the same time as a TiVO Series 3 HD with lifetime service. Both units are used exclusively with Over The Air (OTA) broadcast TV.

The TiVO is hooked up to broadband. The DTV Pal DVR is in a different city, hooked up in a place where it would be awkward to run an Internet or phone line.

I love the 'season pass' of the TiVo -- it just collects non-repeating episodes of shows (e.g. "Nova" or "American Experience"). But in every other important respect I prefer the DTV Pal.

DTV Pal Advantages

Better menus, cleaner fonts on screen, less button pushes
Faster channel surfing, better digital reception on fringe channels
Less electricity used
No advertisements
Easier to replace or upgrade hard drive (a notebook drive works great, and save even more electricity). Unlike TiVo the unit does not boot from the hard drive.

TiVo Advantages

Season Pass, "name based" recording.
Netflix Streaming (mostly old TV Shows, plus a few Movies).
Has more networking features (though I don't use any of them).


The TiVo's "Please Wait" clock icon is infuriating. The DTV Pal is just more pleasant to use day to day.

See also http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099071

-Bryce (http://www.obviously.com/)

As you were told yesterday in the other thread, this DVR has only been available for nine months, so you will see Sasquatch before you find someone who's owned it for more than a year.
So, you're saying I'll be able to see a Sasquatch about 3 (or 6) months from now? ;)

Perhaps the new models sold at Sears have a little better build quality.
Why would you think that?

It's unfortunate that there are no competing products.* TiVo and Moxi units exist but aren't really comparable.

I really don't see anybody competing with Dish in the OTA DVR market. If I'm not mistaken, Dish has an unlimited license to the EPG, in addition to already having the software and engineers in place from the satellite products. Not to mention all the sat customers subsidizing the development. That gives them a real leg up on the product.

Well, maybe so, but DirecTV also had huge advantages in the DVR market and so far has totally screwed up their HR2x project.

Why would you think that?I don't. Just trying to be positive.

I really don't see anybody competing with Dish in the OTA DVR market.You need to qualify that statement in terms of competing with Dish on unit price. TiVo does OTA very well but at 2X the unit price. And if one were to actually consider price/performance ratio, I would argue TiVo is the leader there.

Yeah, I thought about that after I posted. :( I would choose a TiVo HD over a DTV Pal if money was no object, or at the very least if I was looking to maximize my OTA recording experience. The TiVo does everything the Pal does and more.

Well, maybe so, but DirecTV also had huge advantages in the DVR market and so far has totally screwed up their HR2x project.

Yeah, but that's DirecTV. I've never heard a peep from them regarding OTA.

My experience with the DTV Pal DVR has been quite negative. When it worked, it met my expectations. However, it tends to freeze every few weeks, cancels recordings, and at times records the soundtrack for the visually impaired rather than the normal soundtrack. Now, after six month, it has died completely.

Even though I loath subscription models, I took the plunge and bought a TiVo. Paying $12 a month beats dealing with the constant frustration caused by the DTV Pal DVR's behavior.

Similar to other people, I found Dish's customer service appaling. I called twice, spent over an hour on the phone, and was given the run around. On the positive side, I learned from this experience that, if at all avoidable, I will never again become a Dish customer (or any successor company it merges into).

Clearly, I cannot recommend this product. The TiVo is more attractive now (they are running a Christmas time special of $250), and the Sears version of the DTV Pal DVR is $300.

I've had the PAL for a few weeks. So far, so good. If it lasts a year (?) and turns into a brick, I've spent about $270 and watched a whole bunch of great shows I otherwise would have missed (I live in a location with a relatively rich OTA selection). If I'd had Tivo or satellite/cable for the same (hypothetical) year, I'd have spent about $500 for a similar privilege. This doesn't mean I'll be happy if my PAL dies young, but there is some rationale to owning one, even it it ain't perfect.

Easier to replace or upgrade hard drive (a notebook drive works great, and save even more electricity). Unlike TiVo the unit does not boot from the hard drive.


Are you saying you replaced a hard drive yourself after a failure? Tell us more

Dan

I've been trying to help my mother out with getting a HD OTA recorder. This unit sounds perfect, but I don't care for all the troubles it causes.

So, after six moths more of waiting, it's still down to Tivo and this unit? Embarrassing, if you ask me. But, what can I do? My mother is really bugging me for a solution. It looks like this is the only choice, since she wont pay for a monthly service fee. Problem is, I HATE Dish Network. I filled a police report of credit card fraud against them when I caught them charging my credit card for programs when, get this folks, I WASN'T EVEN A CUSTOMER! I had DirecTV, so I don't know how or why they tried this stupid stunt.

I demanded a refund of the charges and they only gave me the runaround. Called the police and then filed a fraud claim with my bank who refunded my money. So, you can see why I'm not willing to go with this machine either, but it appears I have no choice. Besides, it's not my money, but still would hate to provide Dish with a new customer.

I don't. Just trying to be positive.

Realistic is better.

Realistic is better.Always! http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon14.gif

Realistic is better.

Always! http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon14.gifDon't want to get branded as a hater. A little bit of positivity makes the realism more palatable.

We learned that from Mary Poppins.

I've been trying to help my mother out with getting a HD OTA recorder. This unit sounds perfect, but I don't care for all the troubles it causes.

So, after six moths more of waiting, it's still down to Tivo and this unit? Embarrassing, if you ask me. But, what can I do? My mother is really bugging me for a solution. It looks like this is the only choice, since she wont pay for a monthly service fee. Problem is, I HATE Dish Network . . . So, you can see why I'm not willing to go with this machine either, but it appears I have no choice . . . but still would hate to provide Dish with a new customer.It's somewhat less of a risk to buy one now that they are retail. You get it from Sears for $300 + $50/2yr extended warranty, set it up and let your mother try it out for a month. If it starts to go wonky, skipping recordings and the like, you can return it to Sears for a refund and apply it to the purchase of a TiVo with lifetime service ($600, no fees). The only issue I don't know about is whether or not the $50/2yr extended warranty is also refundable if you return the unit. You should check with Sears at the time of purchase -- I would never sanction purchase of this unit without the 2yr warranty.

I've had mine since December 24th, 2008. I'm thinking about selling after putting a dual tuner card in my HTPC.

My issues in the past year.

1) 1 missed recording (out of about 4-6 a week)
2) One local channel (KVUE) always has a breif glitch about every 3 minutes. This doesn't exist on any of my other tuners connected to the same antenna.
3) Doesn't always obey the start early / end late commands even with no recordings around it anywhere.
4) Tuner seems weak when compared to my 3 year old Vizio TV connected to the same antenna
5) Won't tune 9.2, however, it will tune 9.1 with no issues (all other TV's tune 9.2)

Likes
1) TVGOS time is rock solid in my area (Austin, TX)
2) Dual Tuners is really nice
3) Commercial Skip (not simply a 30 second fast forward)
4) Changes channels at about the same speed as other HD DVR's (I.e. PC based)
5) No lockups, freezes, etc. (Using FW F208 now)

I think I got too spoiled with my Sony DHG-HDD250 and the name based recording, so I'm going to test run the HTPC dual tuner for a month and if all goes well, will probably sell the DTVPal DVR. It has been a solid unit and operated as advertised, so I can't really fault the machine.

Commercial Skip (not simply a 30 second fast forward)

:confused: "Commercial Skip"? What's that...? (Sounds cool!)

:confused: "Commercial Skip"? What's that...? (Sounds cool!)

You press the button and it immediately jumps 30 seconds without having to watch the previous commercial. Some VCR's would FF for you 30 seconds (and some TiVO's had the functionality limitation), but this unit immediately jumps ahead 30 seconds. Kind of like clicking 30 seconds ahead on a time bar on a video on your PC.

As another FYI, I never have connected mine to the internet, opting to do the updates via USB.

You press the button and it immediately jumps 30 seconds without having to watch the previous commercial.

Oh, now I get it. You mean it skips 30 sec rather than fast-scans through the recording 30 sec. (Yes, I can be dense.) I use that a lot. I thought maybe you were referring to some undiscovered (by me) feature that would hop right past a cluster of commercials to the next starting point in the program. Now that would be cool. :)

Don't want to get branded as a hater. A little bit of positivity makes the realism more palatable. We learned that from Mary Poppins.Positivity in Mary Poppins' context means seeing the good in what is available, not expecting something better than what is "realistic".

So specifically "positivity" in this context would be something perhaps like, "It delivers a lot of great functionality (as it is)," rather than "Maybe it'll be better quality than it was before," (in the absence of pronouncements that the device was indeed redesigned).

FWIW.

:confused: "Commercial Skip"? What's that...? (Sounds cool!)
You press the button and it immediately jumps 30 seconds without having to watch the previous commercial. Some VCRs would FF for you 30 seconds (and some TiVO's had the functionality limitation [sic]), but this unit immediately jumps ahead 30 seconds...
Oh, now I get it. You mean it skips 30 sec rather than fast-scans through the recording 30 sec. (Yes, I can be dense.) I use that a lot. I thought maybe you were referring to some undiscovered (by me) feature that would hop right past a cluster of commercials to the next starting point in the program. Now that would be cool. :)
No, IMO Sivartk is misusing the term "Commercial Skip". The term was introduced by a VCR manufacturer (whose name I forget) to refer to their machine's ability to skip to the end of a block of commercials, and was adopted by ReplayTV to refer to their own similar function. With ReplayTV, you'd have to watch no more than 5 to 10 seconds of the last commercial in the block. It worked most of the time, but led to lots of legal trouble for ReplayTV. It was, indeed, quite cool.

I think Sivartk should've said "30-second skip" instead.

Some VCR's would FF for you 30 seconds (and some TiVO's had the functionality limitation), but this unit immediately jumps ahead 30 seconds. Kind of like clicking 30 seconds ahead on a time bar on a video on your PC.TiVo, ReplayTV, and Dish Network satellite DVRs all support an instant 30sec skip without any delay or scanning, and have for much of the past decade. Only DirecTV's boxes do something different, a 30sec "slip" that scans very quickly through 30 secs, but even those DVRs can be set to do 30sec skip with a special key code.

Many associate the term "commercial skip" with commercial advance, which would skip all commercials automatically without the user having to do anything. Currently, that capability is only available with PCs (ex: Windows Media Center) using third-party software, and it's not 100% accurate / reliable.

no, imo sivartk is misusing the term "commercial skip". The term was introduced by a vcr manufacturer (whose name i forget)...I seem to remember that RCA was the first one to have it.

They were also the only ones I know of who had it in an HDD/DVD recorder, too.

Positivity in Mary Poppins' context means seeing the good in what is available, not expecting something better than what is "realistic".

So specifically "positivity" in this context would be something perhaps like, "It delivers a lot of great functionality (as it is)," rather than "Maybe it'll be better quality than it was before," (in the absence of pronouncements that the device was indeed redesigned).

FWIW.LOL . . . dude, it's Mary Poppins. You know -- "spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down". Don't fracture your brain over-analyzing.

Indeed, that's good advice for you. Like I said, "It delivers a lot of great functionality (as it is)."

Simple, sweet.

No, IMO Sivartk is misusing the term "Commercial Skip"....

I think Sivartk should've said "30-second skip" instead.

Sorry, I got stuck with the term when I bought my Panasonic HDD / DVD recorder (E80H) back in 2003 and that is what they called it.

Kind of like people setting their DVR's to "tape" their favorite program :p

I've been trying to help my mother out with getting a HD OTA recorder. This unit sounds perfect, but I don't care for all the troubles it causes.

i wasnt going to post anything until i read this and decided to stop

im not sure how old your mother is - or how tech savvy she is - but if she's anything like my mother, i definitely would NOT recommend the dtvpal

ive had mine for a few months now (maybe 4-5) - to me, its a BARE BONES hd recorder that i paid $300 for - my girlfriend (who LIVED by her vcr before we started dating) has trouble figuring out exactly whats going on

i thought time-based recordings would be fine for me - im fairly technically savvy and my girlfriend had been using vcr's for years so i figured it was a no brainer - boy was i wrong

im running the newest firmware (f208, as im sure youre aware) - i dont believe ive EVER had a lock up/freeze/reboot - but ive had plenty of problems with various different recordings:

- the "start early / end late" feature only seems to work sometimes
- ive had MANY occasions where the time of the recording would just change - and i would record something either 30 minutes before or 30 minutes after what i had wanted to record
- ive had plenty of occasions where a timer was just skipped altogether (even though nothing else was recording)
- daylight savings changes WILL change all of your recordings and you WILL have to go through every single timer and re-set it accordingly (think about your poor mother having to do this)

if youre a tech-savvy person who is comfortable sitting in front of the menu every single day to ensure that youre recording the correct shows at the correct times and dont mind missing a show here or there - then this thing is perfect

today - i ordered a tivo hd

today - i ordered a tivo hd

I've had my Tivo HD a little less than a year and it's never missed an event, it's not cheap but I trust you'll like it:)
Upgrading the internal to 1TB was quite painless and now I never have to worry about running out of space.

You certainly get what you pay for in this case. You want Kmart-like prices for electronics, you get Kmart-like performance, functionality, reliabilty and support. ;)

You certainly get what you pay for in this case. You want Kmart-like prices for electronics, you get Kmart-like performance, functionality, reliabilty and support. ;)

you know - in this instance - that definitely appears to be the case

and believe me - i WANTED to love the dtvpal (i dont want anyone to think im a "hater" or a troll - i truly gave this thing a shot) - i made more excuses for that thing than i should have

Yeah, many will tell you they are perfectly satisfied with theirs - but then, every so often, they will respond to posts of other people having problems by saying "Yeah - mine does that, too, on occasion".

So I guess it's a matter of what you can tolerate.

So I guess it's a matter of what you can tolerate.

I wonder what the actual statistical failure/dissatisfaction rate is for this product. People are known to be more likely to state their dissatisfaction with an item than their satisfaction with it, so by nature the 'average' observable public comment on the PAL unfortunately would not necessarily be very positive. I'm sure Sears (or other resellers) won't tell us their stats on complaints/returns, but it would be very interesting to know.

So I guess it's a matter of what you can tolerate.That's really the key and the thresholds vary widely. Some people are willing to tolerate a lot to save a couple hundred dollars. It's like people with large-screen HDTV's who are willing to record in SD on DVD recorders for time-shifting. I don't get that one either.

I was really happy with my DTVpal DVR for the whole 9 months I owned it. My wife would record all the kid programs for the kids and we would record all the stuff the kids can't watch and watch it after they went to bed. I would put probably 4 to 6 hrs of use in on it every day it was also my DTV tuner since my TV is only DTV ready. This last Tuesday my wife called me at work and said the DVR isn't working I came home and searched for answers to fix it online and tried upgrading the hard drive to no avail I am now DVR less. We are addicted and are going to go with a Tivo next time the 300 dollars I spent on this were a loss. I would be better off now if I would have just gone with the Tivo from the beginning but now that the Tivo has dropped in price I will gladly pay 2x the price for it with the lifetime sub. I just don't know how we can put up with this box I am willing to fix it myself but Dish will not sell parts and doesn't offer any kind of repair services. Again I didn't even make it a whole year with this product I still have VCR's and TV's that are like 12 years old and function like new and that is what I used to use everyday instead of the DVR. So if you are looking to save money, from my stand point your money is better spent going with the Tive I think it will first last longer that 9 months and if not it comes with a 1 year warranty and Tivo also has a repair shop for anything after that time. Any comments on this I am curious to know if I am the only one to have this issue we should get a running tallie. I know there are 4 other people at my work that we all thought this was a good idea and they haven't had any problems yet but the box has only been out a year I am currious to see if they start to drop with them as well see if this is a 1 in 10 kind of thing or more like 1 in 3 kind of deal. I did notice that my box ran hot and the other guys at work agree. When I opened it up it looked like it needed a bigger fan on it and could possible be saved by adding extra fans on the outside as a precausion to keep this box alive.

Again sorry for the grip session but I am angry and I don't usually get thsi way I just feel like I have been taken.

I wonder what the actual statistical failure/dissatisfaction rate is for this product. People are known to be more likely to state their dissatisfaction with an item than their satisfaction with it, so by nature the 'average' observable public comment on the PAL unfortunately would not necessarily be very positive. Good points, Bill. Beyond even that, there is no reason to believe online comments have any relation to the actual level of satisfaction for a product and service. There is way too much of a bandwagon mentality online -- some suppliers are favorite targets of vitriol, while other suppliers seem to get a pass even in light of obvious failings. It's a essentially a popularity contents. The AVS Forum tries to be a bit better than that, though, but I think we would have to agree with you that it isn't immune from those effects.

I know everyone wants a TiVO with lifetime service, but what if TiVO dies before your unit dies. (Never know in these times). Can you still make a manual recording with no guide info? The DTV PalDVR will work even if Dish and TVGOS go out of business. My HTPC tuner card will also still work assuming I download the software before they go out of business.

I know everyone wants a TiVO with lifetime service, but what if TiVO dies before your unit dies. (Never know in these times). Can you still make a manual recording with no guide info? It is impossible to answer the question, "What happens if TiVo ceases to exist?" until it occurs. The way our nation's laws are precludes an answer, since the law provides the courts the power to do things in such a situation that would nullify any answer to that question that might have been provided in advance.

If you're asking whether, right now, today, can you make a manual recording without a valid service contract on a TiVo HD, the answer is 'no'. A current subscription in good standing is necessary for setting up even manual recordings.

However, you're asking the wrong question. More specifically, you're presupposing part of the answer, i.e., that TiVo would "die". If TiVo reaches the point where it financial challenges are more than it can handle, then it will very likely be acquired by another company, who will consequently also acquire all of TiVo's liabilities and obligations, including those related to providing you service.

I'm just waiting for the inevitable post with the customary "This isn't a TiVo thread - it's a DTVPal one - so can we please stop with the TiVo talk?". :D

Hehe... and of course that would be posted right after the poster posting it posted a nasty piece about TiVo, eh? LOL! ;)

I'm just waiting for the inevitable post with the customary "This isn't a TiVo thread - it's a DTVPal one - so can we please stop with the TiVo talk?". :D

Sorry, I was trying to understand how the TiVO works in order to determine if you have a "Pro" to recommend the DTVPal DVR. :p

So, yes the DTVPal doesn't rely on any external service to exist in order to make a manual recording where the competition does.

Sorry, I was trying to understand how the TiVO works in order to determine if you have a "Pro" to recommend the DTVPal DVR. :p

So, yes the DTVPal doesn't rely on any external service to exist in order to make a manual recording where the competition does.When Replay went out of business and stopped selling/supporting their boxes, the ownership was still able to get guide data and continue using their equipment because someone picked up that piece of the business and continued to make money selling the guide data. I think it very likely the same would happen with TiVo were it to go down. Also the fact that you cannot make a manual recording without a valid account is a software limitation. If TiVo went down and no one were to pick up the guide data, a final software update could be sent to unlock the manual timer. I think holding out the possible failure of the company as a reason to not buy a TiVo is a straw dog.

Now that it is available at retail with a 2 yr warranty, buying a Pal DVR is much less of a risk than it was while the beta phase was going on. So now at $350 (including Sears warranty) it is $250 less than a TiVo HD ($180 less if you buy your TiVo lifetime activation on eBay; $150 less if you already have a TiVo and you are looking to buy a second DVR). So the question a prospective buyer has to ask their self is whether that cost savings is worth it. If they can tolerate the more limited DVR functionality and the recording unreliability, they will be happy with the Pal DVR and the money saved -- unless it dies in 25 months.

So the question a prospective buyer has to ask their self is whether that cost savings is worth it. If they can tolerate the more limited DVR functionality and the recording unreliability, they will be happy with the Pal DVR and the money saved -- unless it dies in 25 months.

Mine will probably be up for sale in a few weeks. A one year old unit that has had zero lock ups and 1 missed recording during that time. I guess I got lucky...I just like Windows 7 Media Center better and it eliminates a device from the rack.

I was really happy with my DTVpal DVR for the whole 9 months I owned it. My wife would record all the kid programs for the kids and we would record all the stuff the kids can't watch and watch it after they went to bed. I would put probably 4 to 6 hrs of use in on it every day it was also my DTV tuner since my TV is only DTV ready. This last Tuesday my wife called me at work and said the DVR isn't working I came home and searched for answers to fix it online and tried upgrading the hard drive to no avail I am now DVR less. ...
Would you describe status of the failed Pal DVR in technical terms ?
What you see on screen when you reconnect power cord ? What LED is one ? Etc.

So, yes the DTVPal doesn't rely on any external service to exist in order to make a manual recording where the competition does.However, the DTVPal does rely on an external service (TVGOS) for program guide data. Not the same, I know, but still a reliance on an external service that folks should be aware of, especially in light of how many complaints I see have seen posted about TVGOS being lost from some market. Does the DTVPal allow you to direct its program guide toward another source -- an Internet source perhaps?

However, the DTVPal does rely on an external service (TVGOS) for program guide data. Not the same, I know, but still a reliance on an external service that folks should be aware of, especially in light of how many complaints I see have seen posted about TVGOS being lost from some market. Does the DTVPal allow you to direct its program guide toward another source -- an Internet source perhaps?

You can't use an external source for guide data, but you can schedule a recording with no guide data.
It looks at the following:

TVGOS data
PSIP data (required by FCC for stations to transmit)

Even if both of those don't exist (one sub-channel in my area), you can still schedule a recording just like a VCR. Choose channel, start time and duration.

Yes.

Beware of defective units on ebay, however, because Dish will not replace defective units after 90 days. If it were me, I would opt for a new unit from Sears, with the extended warranty for an extra $45.

You can still get a warranty if you buy on eBay. Here's how:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/warranty/buyer_overview.html

Would you describe status of the failed Pal DVR in technical terms ?
What you see on screen when you reconnect power cord ? What LED is one ? Etc.

What I noticed is that it started to have more lock ups and was missing more recordings in the last 2 weeks or so. But when it finally failed it would try to turn on the screen it would flicker then it would just shut off with no LED's on. Once you unplugged it and tried to turn it on it would boot to the please wait screen then it would try to display the tuned data but instead it would either be black or would lock with the blue banner and a black screen. During boot it would have both red and green LED's on then it would go to green only and this would flicker when you would press button's on the remote. I think main chip got to hot and the majority of it is ok since it can boot as far as it does or the software some how got dumped on the floor but I don't know how to reload that. If you or anybody has any other suggestions I will try anything out?? I have nothing to loose.

First you could open it and see if a fan still working; then check the main CPU's temp after removing HDD and metal can's cap. Try disconnect HDD interface/power cable and run it disk-less.

I certainly cannot recommend the Pal DVR. I owned two of them one I received Dec.24th 2008 and the other I got in late Jan. 2009 the software, as most know was pretty terrible and by the time very early April came around(and after multiple live chats from two weeks after I received the second box) they agreed to swap my box only to find out by the time I had packed it up and shipped it that a new firmware was available that most likely would have fixed the rebooting/freezing. So got the replacement and they both worked for a while although I really disliked the timer type recording functionality. Then in Aug the same one I had swapped the tuner went out on:mad:. Then after over a week of multiple calls and incorrect info they said they would fix it so I called back to get the shipping tags sent out to me and was told that the RMA# I was given was over two years old and then she pretty much accused me of lying.

Later that same day someone else said he would see what he could do and that he would call me back on Monday;he did call and I was finally able to send it in. Much more drama and a month and a half later they tell me that it is to be sent back to me unfixed:mad::mad::mad:. I told them just how unacceptable that was and he asked me to hold so he could look something up. Then three minutes later or so a woman picked up and identified herself as elevated customer care or something similar then she told me she would do her own inquiry and get back to me.

Four days later she called and said the reason it was to by sent back to me is that Dish no longer sells or supports that product. So then almost feeling like a smart ass I asked "So do I just get issued a refund then?" and to my total surprise she said "we can do that." ((((And had I known that it would have taken this much effort and cause this much stress I would have just sold it as broken on Ebay for $20.00.:rolleyes:))))

With that I knew what I had to do so once my refund came in I bought a TiVo HD then quickly sold my working Pal DVR and once I got that money I bought another TiVo HD.

Yes they cost more but you don't have 60% of the thread based completely on problems and TiVo has name based recording.:D:D:D:D

And I can vouch for the above person that our market (MSP) has a good working TVGOS provider, WCCO CBS digital 4.1, so the problems can't be caused by a poor TVGOS stream.

First you could open it and see if a fan still working; then check the main CPU's temp after removing HDD and metal can's cap. Try disconnect HDD interface/power cable and run it disk-less.

I took out the fan and plugged it into my CPU's mother board and it was turning just fine so, now I am not thinking bad fan. I did remove the metal can on the CPU and it was warm and I tried booting with hair dryer set on cool on it made not difference. I tried to put the Hard Drive in my pc today and it didn't like it I was just trying to reformat it and had some difficulty but I will continue to work at it I will keep you posted if I have any real improvement.

hello, i've had my dtvpal for about 9 months - it has been working great - its a f202 version (i'm afraid to upgrade to the f209, i've heard of many problems after doing a upgrade) - as i said its been working great, then a couple of weeks ago it started rebooting itself, not to often sometimes twice a day, somedays not at all - then yesterday the remote seemed to stop working - i have a sony tv working on pals remote also, everthing was working fine - then as i said the remote seemed to quit - i soon realized that i could only turn pal off\on if the tv was off (if tv was on, i could not turn pal off\on) - and most of the time all the buttons would not work on pal but would operate the tv just fine - then i realized the the remotes buttons for operating the pal would work if i had the remote about an inch away from the pal recievers window - it seems like, somehow the sony tv is overpowering the pal - i've put knew batteries in remote, i am useing pal's remote - i'm wondering if somehow the infered signal between the tv and pal somehow crossed - is there away to remove my tv's info from my pal remote - i've tried redoing the tv to the remote, it didnt change anything - anyone else haveing this problem, any idle of a way to fix this - i really like this unit - i've phoned the rep's, they are useless - thanks for any and all help

hello, i've had my dtvpal for about 9 months - it has been working great - its a f202 version (i'm afraid to upgrade to the f209, i've heard of many problems after doing a upgrade) - as i said its been working great, then a couple of weeks ago it started rebooting itself, not to often sometimes twice a day, somedays not at all - then yesterday the remote seemed to stop working - i have a sony tv working on pals remote also, everthing was working fine - then as i said the remote seemed to quit - i soon realized that i could only turn pal off\on if the tv was off (if tv was on, i could not turn pal off\on) - and most of the time all the buttons would not work on pal but would operate the tv just fine - then i realized the the remotes buttons for operating the pal would work if i had the remote about an inch away from the pal recievers window - it seems like, somehow the sony tv is overpowering the pal - i've put knew batteries in remote, i am useing pal's remote - i'm wondering if somehow the infered signal between the tv and pal somehow crossed - is there away to remove my tv's info from my pal remote - i've tried redoing the tv to the remote, it didnt change anything - anyone else haveing this problem, any idle of a way to fix this - i really like this unit - i've phoned the rep's, they are useless - thanks for any and all help

You should try the dedicated DTVPal DVR thread. You'll probably have better luck there.:)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099071

thanks, i'll check it out