Panasonic 54V10 & PS3.
When adjusting black level DVE HD and AVIA give me the same result with the below black bars blending into the background. The same brightness setting in AVS HD 709 using the APL Clipping Pattern will result in 18 being invisible and requires the brightness to be turned up a lot to have 17 barely visible. Even if I set it by getting inches from the screen so 17 just turns invisible my black level seems too high and the below black bars on the previous calibration discs are clearly visible. Which is right? I suspect DVE HD and AVIA but why would AVS HD 709 be off by so much for me? Thanks.

I wouldn't suggest being able to see 17 flash on the APL pattern. Maybe the PDF isn't clear, but 19 flashing on the APL clipping pattern is probably reasonable and generally in line with DVE or AVIA. Going by the "18 being invisible" comment, it seems to me that when you use the same brightness setting the APL pattern is in line with what I would expect.

Generally I'd suggest setting brightness with the first Black Clipping Pattern if using AVS HD 709, and then just double-check to see where the APL pattern begins flashing. I think Avia or DVE have the first level above black somewhere around 19 to 21, so that's the sort of range I would expect to see flashing on the APL Clipping pattern. There still can be differences in the general descriptions for setting brightness on some displays, as further explained at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15579057#post15579057, but in your case it sounds like all three discs suggest very similar settings.

Sorry I was referring to the Black Clipping Pattern not the APL pattern...my bad. I assume then by your linked post that I need to get my gamma a little flatter because 18 should be visible with the Black Clipping Pattern. Would my assumption be correct judging by my gamma graph? Thanks.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=153685&d=1254025338

The DVE HD DVD version and AVIA discs don't have the same black level...

The DVE disc uses % white patterns with 0% white represented by a digital 16 pattern on the disc.

The AVIA discs use TRUE IRE levels. Avia's 0 IRE pattern is digital 0 and their 7.5 IRE pattern is digital 16 (same as 0% white on the DVE disc).

If you are not changing settings on the PS3 when you change discs, you should see very different black levels unless you are correctly using AVIA's 7.5 IRE pattern to be the same as the 0% white pattern on the DVE disc.

If you want to know ABSOLUTELY whether your display is representing each digital level correctly (the jump from 0% white (digital 16) to 1% white is 2.2 digital steps), you need something like one of the "higher" versions of DisplayMate or you could create your own test pattern using PhotoShop or Paint.Net (free) with single digital values (i.e. digital 16, digital 17, digital 18, etc.) so you can have a higher level of precision that is available on the DVE or Avia discs.

I don't know the other disc so I can't comment on it.

The PS3 should be set to YCbCr with Limited selected for RGB range and Super-White turned ON. Those settings will show clear differences between AVIA's 10% pattern and DVE's 10 IRE pattern (for example). If you have some PS3 setting on Automatic, it MAY be doing something you don't want it doing when you are messing with calibration discs. Super-White ON only allows the PS3 to pass digital levels higher than 235 (which it should to avoid clipping white highlights).

Even if I set it by getting inches from the screen so 17 just turns invisible my black level seems too high and the below black bars on the previous calibration discs are clearly visible.

One reason the APL pattern is included is to look at if the display might vary depending on the average picture level of the image, which could be possible with some displays. My computer decodes the below black bar as 7 for either DVE or Avia II. Since below black is so low on those discs I'd think the APL pattern would also flash below blacks at similar settings. Using the AVS HD 709 patterns you might want to look at the APL Clipping Pattern and go no higher with brightness than where no flashing can be seen for 2-15, in order to make sure you're not raising the TV's black level. Ideally at that same setting 19-25 would flash on the APL pattern.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/pv6tib is an AVCHD of just the Basic Settings that use darker text, which was requested to make the Black Clipping Pattern easier to read on Plasma.

I assume then by your linked post that I need to get my gamma a little flatter because 18 should be visible with the Black Clipping Pattern. Would my assumption be correct judging by my gamma graph?

Raising brightness a bit might tend to flatten the low gamma if the TV begins increasing in brightness above black. Raising the brightness will also tend to drop the overall measured gamma. If you wanted you might try raising brightness a bit and then adjusting a gamma control for a higher gamma.

For what it's worth, I personally prefer the Avia pattern for setting brightness out of the commercial discs. The first level above black is lower and there's motion to make the bar easier to see, so the Avia pattern is just a bit more instructive in my option. Trying to hammer out exactly where a digital display begins increasing in brightness beyond what AVIA offers will not really apply to the majority of video content.

Thanks guys, much appreciated!