I have no idea whether my wife or I will notice the rainbow effect. I'm also not sure if we'll have a chance to test out a projector before purchasing it.

So I'm worried about the Rainbow Effect. For those who see it, is it a major distraction or just a slight, ocassional annoyance?

I used to see it a lot. Now, even though I see it once in a while in dark movies, it doesn't bother me. You'll be fine.

or..... it will constantly distract you and possibly make you nauseous like it does me. I sold my DT-510 after suffering thru only a few movies. RBE is discussed in 100s of threads here, but answering your question won't really help. YOU or your wife, watching YOUR specific projector on YOUR sized screen with YOUR rooms brightness at YOUR seating distance will determine if YOU see them and how much they bother you. If you want reassurance, statistically, most people don't see them. Good luck.

or..... it will constantly distract you and possibly make you nauseous like it does me. I sold my DT-510 after suffering thru only a few movies. RBE is discussed in 100s of threads here, but answering your question won't really help. YOU or your wife, watching YOUR specific projector on YOUR sized screen with YOUR rooms brightness at YOUR seating distance will determine if YOU see them and how much they bother you. If you want reassurance, statistically, most people don't see them. Good luck.

+1

I had an HD65 that made me want to throw up after 15min. An HD20 that I could tolerate but could still see rainbows...no nausea. My wife could see rainbows on the HD65, no nausea..but couldn't see any on the HD20. Both went back and I have two LCD's now.

You really need to audition one, at least get it from a store with a liberal return policy.

Rainbow effects are generally not a big issue anymore unless you are extremely sensitive to them. Best way is to actually test out the projectors before you finalize your decision, as it may vary from projector to projector. Newer DLP projectors tend to have more color wheel segments instead of the traditional 3 (R,G,B), which lowers the tendency of the rainbow effect dramatically. You can find most new DLP projectors can have up to 6 or 7 color wheel segments.

What projector are you considering?

I have no idea whether my wife or I will notice the rainbow effect. I'm also not sure if we'll have a chance to test out a projector before purchasing it.

So I'm worried about the Rainbow Effect. For those who see it, is it a major distraction or just a slight, ocassional annoyance?

While I became sensitive to 2x/4x color wheels, I have not tried any of the newer designs for extended periods.

My observations:

For movies, as I became sensitive I could not watch more than a couple of hours. I can watch LCD/SXRD with out incident.

For gaming, this is where I had the biggest problems with the color wheel. I tend to suffer some fatigue from gaming already and the color wheel made it worse and the onset of fatigue quicker. I still have to take a break with LCD/SXRD, but not until after many hours of play.

You will definitely get used to watching DLP, but only time will tell if the experience will be comfortable. I still envy those who don't have problems because they have a broader range of projector options.

An aside... I once spoke with my eye Doc and he thought visual fatigue may be associated with the viewer's visual acuity and left/right acuity balance.

Good luck with your projector search.

tentaguasu -- Another factor is how bright you are displaying the image. The brighter the picture, the more noticeable (or nauseating) the RBE will be.

If you, or your wife, are sensitive to color separation due to astigmatism or are prone to motion sickness, then RBE may be a problem. As another member said, it also varies significantly from PJ to PJ, even within the same brand.

To summarize what other RBE discussions said, somewhere around 20% of the population will notice RBE and around 5% will be really bothered by it (I fall into the latter category). However, I did find one model (about 5 years ago) that was acceptable to me, as long as the brightness was set on the low side.

If I read a review that states that RBE is noticeable, then it is not a good idea to get that model. Art at www.projectorreviews.com is a good source for RBE on the various DLP models, since he is somewhat sensitve to the effect (and he has owned DLPs also).

I've had 1x, 2x, 4x ...

1x - Children will cry.
2x - Eh, too noticeable for movie enjoyment, frequent rainbows
4x - Good enough for me, but still the occasional rainbow. Generally a dark scene with a bright object such as a candle.

6x must be just dandy??

xorbe -- I agree with your 4x comment, as long as the color wheel has at least 6 segments (RGB+RGB = 2 RGB pairs). However, even some of those can be troublesome, since wheel speed specifications are not standardized (wheel RPM and number of segments).

What projector are you considering?

I'm thinking about the Optoma HD20.

My wife tends to be pretty sensitive to things in general....

Any thoughts on stores that will take returns on an item should RBE be a problem?

You might try to find someone near you that has a DLP.

It is no problem at our house with a Marantz Vp8600 and my wife is very bad about motion sickness.

I have no idea whether my wife or I will notice the rainbow effect. I'm also not sure if we'll have a chance to test out a projector before purchasing it.

So I'm worried about the Rainbow Effect. For those who see it, is it a major distraction or just a slight, ocassional annoyance?

Impossible to tell. It's like asking how affected you are by motion sickness, but you've never been riding in a car, on a roller coaster, or out on a boat. It bothers some people a lot, and some people not at all. Impossible to say without you actually trying it for yourself.

Unfortunately, that's not the answer you were looking for, but it's the true answer. Still, I find it hard to believe that there is no opportunity for you to view any single-chip DLP to see what it looks like to you. There may be AVSers who live near you who might be able to help you out if you can't find a dealer of any kind?

tentaguasu -- Another factor is how bright you are displaying the image. The brighter the picture, the more noticeable (or nauseating) the RBE will be.

Thats when i tend to notice it also, when there are bright scenes and fast action.

The color bars affect me more then the LCD screen door effect does on LCD projectors specialy at the distance i sit. I like how much better the image is on my SP4805 but i still use my LP250 more.

I am on my second DLP and neither the wife or myself have yet to see a rainbow.. neighbors, brother-in-law, cousins and mother have all watched movies with us and have never seen a one.. projectors were IN72 and HC3000 Both have 4x 6 segment color wheels ..

My girlfriend and I haven't been affected by RBE on either of the 2 DLPs I've owned, the HD70 and VP4001. The chances are good that you won't be affected by them either but you should definitely try to demo a DLP before you jump in head first. I jumped in head first but it worked out... :D

The brighter the image the faster the eye/brain will process it, if the eye/brain is faster than the colorwheeel you may see rainbows.
Lumens devided by screen size in square feet, times screen gain (1 for matt white) equals foot lamberts. The recommended foot lamberts is 12-16ftL, with some people prefering as low as 8ftL in batcaves and others as high as 24ftL. Manufactures quoted lumens are usually upto 2x what you will get, with the projector on low lamp mode, calibrated and not using any white segment or white peaking during spoke time if options, and the lamp has aged a bit. Lamps tend to dim rapidly over the first couple of hundred hours then slowly. Quoted lamp life is for half of the lamps still working producing at least half of their originally quoted lumens. A camera neutral density filter can also be used to reduce projector brightness.

I use white subtitles on the Mummy films to see if image brightness is too high, if the text is not glaring to read, I know the image is not too bright. If the desert opening scene in Fifth Element or the many desert scenes in the film Sahara look bright I know it is not too dim.

Rapid eye movement increases the likelyhood of seeing rainbow effect, as the eye misses color refreshes, in effect lowering the colorwheel speed. The eyes naturally keep track of bright moving objects, so high contrast moving images are the most likely to induce rainbow effect. A worse case image is the THX test screen for geometry, the white circle on a black screen, the eyes naturally trace the circle round, moving.

I see rainbows on the THX circle but do not see them in films. A exception is one point in Jurassic park during the scene with the children and the raptors in the kitchen, when light strikes the silver pots and pans in the dark room.

Proper calibration of brightness (black level) and contrast (white level) and color is important before determining if rainbows are a problem. As these settings will determine image brightness and contrast.


With RGB colorwheels the Green is the brightest color and Green/Red difference dictates rainbow effect. For colorwheels of the same speed a larger red segment will reduce rainbow effect, the presence of a neutral density dark green segment in addition to a normal green segment will significantly increase rainbow effect.

With colorwheels containing a Yellow segment, yellow is the brightest color and Yellow/Blue difference dictates rainbow effect. Yellow is closer to white and Blue closer to black so in theory rainbows are less likely. But with lamp based projectors Yellow is alot more light efficient than Green so produces alot brighter image, up to 50% brighter in the midtones.

With colorwheels containing a White (clear) segment or with the option of white peaking during spoke time, you will probably want to turn the white segment or peaking off, which is usually a menu option. White is obviously very light efficient and increases brightness greatly, it also desaturates the color of the image.

Like others suggested, audition a DLP PJ to see if u are prone to rainbows or not. I have a VP4001 (same as convexion above) and have put over 2700 hours on it and to this day, I've never noticed rainbows on it and I do a LOT of gaming on it as well. My wife and guests have never pointed it out either.

There are tons of people that own DLP PJ's but u won't find a thread titled "Great..I don't see rainbows on my new DLP PJ". It's simple....if u are prone to it, u'll see it ...if u don't, good for u.

I had the same concerns, I just purchased the HD20 and was worried I would be bothered by it.

I do notice them once in a while, but it doesn't bother me at all. I never even mentioned the possibility of rainbows to my wife and she is yet to say anything.

The only time I really see them is if I look down to grab my drink or something and my eyes move quickly.

Well, according to projector central the Optoma HD20:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-HD20.htm

Has 6 wheel segments and rotates at 4x (wheel speed), which is quite standard for the HD20 competitors, quite universal. 4x is standard, but some would consider it leaning towards the slow side.

I agree with ChrisWiggles, it is true, you can't really explain it. I personally have not had RBE issues, and I've only been using DLP projectors, so I would assume I would experience them by now if I did, so sorry, don't really have any experience with them = /

But, to be honest, the best advice would be to borrow a friends or family's and test it out. OR buy it from the store, MAKE SURE, they have a 7 - 14 day FULL REFUND, no questions asked return policy. Buy it, go home, test it out through numerous types of movies (bright, dark, fast, slow, etc), try watching whatever you would on it. If you notice something uncomfortable then return it, no loss what so ever :)

Does that help?

You need to find a way to borrow / rent a DLP PJ to test for sensitivity. Some people with a mild sensitivity have been able to retrain their brain after a period of time. Others who truly are sensitive get splitting headaches and strong nausea.

Nobody in my family and none of my friends have compained of RBE so it doesn't seem to be common.

Yeah, borrow it or try buying it with the 7 day no question refund policy :)

I have a dlp projector and a dlp hdtv and have never seen a rainbow. I also have 20/10 vision so I am not sure if this has anything to do with it.

When I got my first DLP projector, the Infocus SP4805, I saw no rainbows at all, and I thought people were crazy when they said they could see them. Then, I got the mitsubishi HD1000u. When I first got it set up and everything, I was killed by the RBE. Now, I cant see them nearly as much and it does not bother me at all. I have many 720P dlp projectors with colors wheels ranging from 4x and 5x. At 5x I pretty much never notice the RBE, and with 4x I notice it more often. I have noticed that screen brightness is the number one thing you can change to decrease or increse the RBE, which is why I think I never saw it on the 4805, since it is a low lumen projector that I had on a huge screen. I personaly would rather deal with slight RBE then have to feel like I am watching a movie through my sliding screen door. I dont see how people can deal with the SDE on LCD, its just terrible. The panasonic 720p and 1080p units have smooth screen technology which completely eliminates the SDE, even on their 720p units, however as I have said that technology makes me feel like the picture is soft and out of focus. I only had the ax200u for 2 days before I returned it becuase of that reason. I was however impressed with the ax200u's picture, especially black level for an LCD. It did not come near the DT-500 though, but definently good. I would get a DLP projector from one of the forum sponsers like projector people or visual apex that have the return policy so that you can atleast try a DLP before you completely disregard it. DLP is an amazing technology and I feel it comes out on top of LCD by a good amount.

I have looked at several dlp projectors. I have seen the effect in a few of them. My problem was I did not notice it at first but then about 25 min into a movie I started to get eye fatigue. And started to see the RBE. But dont look for it what ever you do once you find it you wont be able to see anything else when you look at the screen.

For me 4x is absolute minimum.

4x has somewhat distracting RBE for me, however I prefer the DLP look over LCD so much that I would accept RBE on a 4x.

I went and saw the optoma hd82, and it has a 6x and that certainly is the way to go for me personally. Thinking back now I am not even sure I saw even one RBE at any time during a Transformers demo.

I had my wife out to audition as she hadnt seen DLP before and she didnt notice RBE on 4x - lucky her :)

When I got my first DLP projector, the Infocus SP4805, I saw no rainbows at all, and I thought people were crazy when they said they could see them. Then, I got the mitsubishi HD1000u. When I first got it set up and everything, I was killed by the RBE. Now, I cant see them nearly as much and it does not bother me at all. I have many 720P dlp projectors with colors wheels ranging from 4x and 5x. At 5x I pretty much never notice the RBE, and with 4x I notice it more often. I have noticed that screen brightness is the number one thing you can change to decrease or increse the RBE, which is why I think I never saw it on the 4805, since it is a low lumen projector that I had on a huge screen. I personaly would rather deal with slight RBE then have to feel like I am watching a movie through my sliding screen door. I dont see how people can deal with the SDE on LCD, its just terrible. The panasonic 720p and 1080p units have smooth screen technology which completely eliminates the SDE, even on their 720p units, however as I have said that technology makes me feel like the picture is soft and out of focus. I only had the ax200u for 2 days before I returned it becuase of that reason. I was however impressed with the ax200u's picture, especially black level for an LCD. It did not come near the DT-500 though, but definently good. I would get a DLP projector from one of the forum sponsers like projector people or visual apex that have the return policy so that you can atleast try a DLP before you completely disregard it. DLP is an amazing technology and I feel it comes out on top of LCD by a good amount.

Hahaha, I agree with you, I prefer DLP as well. Fortunately, I never had a problem with RBE, guess I'm not affected!

I have a Mit. HC3100. Cannot see RBE in 5x speed but yes on 4x.

However, I don't know if the wheel speed is the same with 3800 or the BenQ W6000 ?

Well the BenQ website says it uses a 6 segment color wheel with high speed.....

I'm not exactly sure if that helps :(

http://www.benq.us/products/Projector/?product=863

Well the BenQ website says it uses a 6 segment color wheel with high speed.....

I'm not exactly sure if that helps :(

http://www.benq.us/products/Projector/?product=863

I think after a month, he's already made a decision.

I think the issue on RBE is over discussed on these threads and forums and since the audience is mainly in to Audio/Video as a hobby, we almost train ourselves to look for them. I know I am not affected, but I have found myself straining to see them as a result of overanalyzing my setup.

Just my $.02.

I am RBE sensitive and own a DLP. So far nobody else has said anything about it on the screen. I once viewed a RP DLP on a sales floor and the whole screen was solid violet and green looking to me and I asked the sales person what it was and he looked puzzled at first, then explained it was DLP. Changing the speed on my projector does not seem to improve it also. What I do find helps is if I get saturation and color near accurate then the RBE goes from looking like blue and red lines bowing around to more a rather less intrusive pink and purple highlights that sort of glow on objects when it occurs.... I would say it is less a problem than rainbows that I saw on my previous CRT fp not to mention the hallows, scan lines, and other issues when watching that. Before I owned that I also tried a CRT RP but again...rainbows.

Of the 3 new DLP the HD20 is best if your sensitive to rainbows or not sure.

Ive never seen RBE and I've owned about 10 DLP's (just ordered the new Vivitek) and every time someone has came over to watch including lots of friends and family I always ask them if they see it and no one has ever seen it. I think RBE is like Bigfoot...

Ive never seen RBE and I've owned about 10 DLP's (just ordered the new Vivitek) and every time someone has came over to watch including lots of friends and family I always ask them if they see it and no one has ever seen it. I think RBE is like Bigfoot...

Right on dude. Makes since to me! :rolleyes: ;)

I think after a month, he's already made a decision.

Answering a question late is better than never, right?

I'm just trying to be helpful = )

A friend of mine has a 4x DLP PJ. I went out to his place to watch a movie and after about 20 minutes I thought I was going to throw up. I didn't want to be rude so I struggled through the rest of the movie and ended up with a migraine headache that lasted for about 3 days. I am not particularly prone to migraines, but this one was so bad that I could HEAR light - seriously. I am looking at a projector upgrade in the next few months and have completely ruled out DLP at this point. I hear that the 3-chip models don't do rainbows, but they're too expensive for me. I'm now looking at the Panny 4K or maybe the Sony HW15 SXRD. Long story short, I'd make darn sure that you are not susceptible to rainbows before taking that plunge - it could turn out worse than you can imagine.

It's even worse when using such a projector to play a game like Halo, where you are moving the image around very quickly and in all directions.

6x wheel speed will be better than 5x or 4x for rainbow effect?

I have not seen any rainbow on DLP projectors, but I noticed that I had eye fatigue and light headache on DLP projectors. I am not sure if such eye fatigue comes from color wheel spinning or long hour movie watching. Maybe I am too sensitive... Anyhow, assuming that rainbow effect causes such eye fatigue or light headache, 6x wheel speed willl alleviate such symptons? Any idea or experience?

I can see rainbows, but I agree that fewer people would notice them, if they didn't know about them. And even CRT, SXRD and LCD have their own motion artifacts that some people are more sensitive to than others. But they don't get as much press because they're usually only objectionable with specific, and uniquely stylized material like Underworld 2, the beginning of Space Cowboys, or the nighttime boat landing in Apocalypse Now. And even there, with someone that does notice it, they may not always see it. I've found that how tired your eyes are, also factor into the equation.

You can't test drive DLP in a store to find out if you're sensitive to rainbows or not. It was at least 50 hours before I noticed rainbows. They were horribly annoying for the next 100 hours or so after that. I was finally able to acclimate by teaching myself to ignore them, as they're just an optical illusion, not something that's really there and thus not something I want to pay attention to. It took me awhile to teach my brain that, but since I reviewed most of the movies I watched, I was a more analytical viewer.

That said, I think rainbows are less of a concern than other aspects of the technology that's associated with causing eye strain. Personally, I could never watch much over 90 minutes on single chip DLP without experiencing eye fatigue and I virtually never watched two movies back to back because of it. Mild headaches were the worst case-scenario for me personally, but as I understand it, for some, headaches can get nasty and even result in nausea in severe cases. With SXRD (an LCD derivative) I've played videogames on the PS3 all night over the holidays without noticing any ill effect that couldn't be attributed to normal lack of sleep and constant focus on a screen for 10+ hours.

Eye strain is supposedly induced by the nature of the mirrors flashing on and off in the DLP chip rather than the color-wheel. Like rainbows, not everyone may see it. And, they say that even for those that do, the brain can adjust over time. But, personally, after years of use, I never found single chip DLP to be as relaxing to watch as other technologies in long viewing sessions, and I've never been convinced that it's something I want my brain to adjust to, not to mention the risk of a guest not enjoying themselves because they fall into that 10% of the population (according to TI I believe) that can have a more severe reaction than I do. I'm still willing to give DLP another go, if the price is right and the picture offers a dramatic enough improvement over what I can get with other technologies. But, I haven't seen either scenario yet, much less both together and I've given up hope on there ever being an affordable 3-chip DLP design.

...Anyhow, assuming that rainbow effect causes such eye fatigue or light headache, 6x wheel speed willl alleviate such symptons? Any idea or experience?

8 times out of 10 the PJ is too bright when people don't see rainbows but still suffer from a DLP. Calibrate for brightness and contrast and you will be fine. 1.5 times out of 10 they are sitting too close and 0.5 times out of ten, you really do see rainbows.

A friend of mine has a 4x DLP PJ. I went out to his place to watch a movie and after about 20 minutes I thought I was going to throw up.
Anyone considering a DLP w/color wheel for their HT needs to think about this post from VanMark, because if you ever intend to invite others to spend time looking at your DLP, there is a good likelihood that someone is going to start hallucinating! ;)

I am susceptible to the effect myself and see rainbows within seconds with most DLPs.

Dunno why people even bother with it. It's so "50s" anyway--c'mon, a color wheel? :rolleyes:

I am susceptible to the effect myself and see rainbows within seconds with most DLPs.



I am in the same position, my eyes are very sensitive to RBE, I haven't seen a projector yet where I can't easily detect the shifting of the color. I won't watch it long enough to let a headache set in.

I went for a 3 LCD, but had to go through 3 projectors (of the same model) to find one with good convergence. It was worth it for the nice solid image it presents (at least to these hyper-sensitive eyes)

I can see the rainbows even on the higher end DLPs with color wheels. I've trained my brain to ignore it. Basically I can see them when I want to and when I don't..their gone. I really like the look of DLP..so its worth it for me.

Anyone considering a DLP w/color wheel for their HT needs to think about this post from VanMark, because if you ever intend to invite others to spend time looking at your DLP, there is a good likelihood that someone is going to start hallucinating! ;)

I am susceptible to the effect myself and see rainbows within seconds with most DLPs.

Dunno why people even bother with it. It's so "50s" anyway--c'mon, a color wheel? :rolleyes:

Less than 5% of the population is even susceptible.

Like the B-52, the color wheel may be old tech but it is extremely effective and lasts much longer than the yellowing panels in an lcd PJ.

I just had over 50 people over tonite and NONE saw any rainbows or had any problems watching my excellent DLP.

Could somebody kindly answer my question if 6x wheel speed vis-a-vis 5x or 4x wheel speed may lessen eye fatigue or headache or nausea?

My thinking from Chad Varnadore's comments above is that if eye fatigue or nausea is caused by rainbow effect, the answer may be yes, but if such sympton is caused by flickering of light of DLP projector, then the answer may be no.

I can watch several movies in a row with LCD or SXRD projectors, but with DLP projectors (with 5x wheel speed), it is difficult to view more than one movie, even though I cannot see rainbow effect on any DLP projectors (with same 5x wheel speed).

Could somebody kindly answer my question if 6x wheel speed vis-a-vis 5x or 4x wheel speed may lessen eye fatigue or headache or nausea?

My thinking from Chad Varnadore's comments above is that if eye fatigue or nausea is caused by rainbow effect, the answer may be yes, but if such sympton is caused by flickering of light of DLP projector, then the answer may be no.

I can watch several movies in a row with LCD or SXRD projectors, but with DLP projectors (with 5x wheel speed), it is difficult to view more than one movie, even though I cannot see rainbow effect on any DLP projectors (with same 5x wheel speed).

6X can lessen the effect if you see one but your condition is more likely from the 5X being too bright.

No way would I consider buying a single chip DLP projector. Even if I did not see RBE, I am convinced that this technology can lead to eyestrain, headaches, and nausea in some people and I would not want to take that chance with my family or friends.
Plus, a spinning color wheel is to me a bit of a kluge. That technology went out with Kinemacolor in 1915!

No way would I consider buying a single chip DLP projector. Even if I did not see RBE, I am convinced that this technology can lead to eyestrain, headaches, and nausea in some people and I would not want to take that chance with my family or friends.
Plus, a spinning color wheel is to me a bit of a kluge. That technology went out with Kinemacolor in 1915!

Troll...

I'm RBE sensitive. But I've pretty much trained myself to not see it. Batman Begins on Blu-ray is a huge test for it. It takes about a month or two to get used to. Now I barely see it. Maybe once or twice in a movie.

I will buy nothing other than DLP. I cannot afford SXRD. And until LED DLP is cheaper, single chip DLP is it.

I can watch for hours and not have eyestrain or headaches. Never did have headaches but had minor eyestrain. What you need to do is calibrate the proector and turn down the brightness and contrast as soon as you get it. It's set too hot from factory.

In my case it was nearly a month before I saw any RBE - that's probably WAY longer than anyone will give you to try out a unit. Once I saw it, it drove me crazy for a couple weeks and would cause headaches if I watched for too long. Once my eyes and brain adjusted, I rarely see them anymore and can watch all day without eyestrain.

I would also never go to an LCD projector. I've never seen a single one that would satisfy me in terms of black levels and colors.

Part of the "adjustment" period for some folks is related to the initial break-in period on the lamp where it will dim down after 100 to 200 hours of use. The less bright image reduces the obviousness of the effect and makes it easier to ignore/adjust to.

Part of the "adjustment" period for some folks is related to the initial break-in period on the lamp where it will dim down after 100 to 200 hours of use. The less bright image reduces the obviousness of the effect and makes it easier to ignore/adjust to.

Not entrely. I'm on my 2nd HD70. My first one was at 600 hours and stores were clearing out the HD70 at $500. So I sold my old one for around the same price and picked up a new one.

The new one was brighter but I didn't notice any more or less rainbows. It's 90% your eye and brain getting used to it than the brightness.

For example, my brother has the Mitsubishi HC1500 in his basement. It is almost 2 years old and has about 11 hours (he never uses it). The bulb is still new. We watched Gladiator Blu-ray (real mess, Universal!!) on it the other day. I had no issues with it. I remember when he first got it (in fact I made a thread about it here) and I could not look at it. Nothing has changed other than me having 2 years of DLP experience. It's more than new bulb brightness.

Could somebody kindly answer my question if 6x wheel speed vis-a-vis 5x or 4x wheel speed may lessen eye fatigue or headache or nausea?

My thinking from Chad Varnadore's comments above is that if eye fatigue or nausea is caused by rainbow effect, the answer may be yes, but if such sympton is caused by flickering of light of DLP projector, then the answer may be no.

I can watch several movies in a row with LCD or SXRD projectors, but with DLP projectors (with 5x wheel speed), it is difficult to view more than one movie, even though I cannot see rainbow effect on any DLP projectors (with same 5x wheel speed).

I had a 3x Opoma Hd65 that was really bad for rainbows, I felt nauseous and could barely make it through a movie. I also experienced eyestrain, after about 15min my eyes felt fatigued. Later, I auditoned an HD20 with a 4x color wheel, still saw rainbows but the effect was lessened. I didn't get as much eyestrain or fatigue either, although I did feel "spacey' after 30min or so. For me, less RBE meant less fatigue, although it was still too bothersome and I ended up with an LCD.

Now I had both projectors for almost a month, are pretty equal in lumen output, and I had calibrated them for contrast and brightness on the same screen in the same room, so I don't think that played any significant part in the difference

I just had over 50 people over tonite and NONE saw any rainbows or had any problems watching my excellent DLP.Or they were too polite to mention it to you.

Glad you've had good luck with your DLP, but for my part I would never recommend a single-chip DLP with spinning color wheel to *anybody*.

Not entrely. I'm on my 2nd HD70. My first one was at 600 hours and stores were clearing out the HD70 at $500. So I sold my old one for around the same price and picked up a new one.

The new one was brighter but I didn't notice any more or less rainbows. It's 90% your eye and brain getting used to it than the brightness.

For example, my brother has the Mitsubishi HC1500 in his basement. It is almost 2 years old and has about 11 hours (he never uses it). The bulb is still new. We watched Gladiator Blu-ray (real mess, Universal!!) on it the other day. I had no issues with it. I remember when he first got it (in fact I made a thread about it here) and I could not look at it. Nothing has changed other than me having 2 years of DLP experience. It's more than new bulb brightness.

Exactly, but it does "contribute" to the problems experienced with DLP PJs.
Each person affected in any amount should be sure to eliminate this contribution when evaluating whether they can live with DLP.

I've had the Optoma H79 and Planar 8150, I've never seen a rainbow and I refuse to read any directions that propose to teach me how to spot one.

Or they were too polite to mention it to you.

Glad you've had good luck with your DLP, but for my part I would never recommend a single-chip DLP with spinning color wheel to *anybody*.

Within my friends and family circle of about 50. Only my brother, myself and my aunt saw rainbows. Anyone who comes in, I explain how the RBE works and how to see it. No one has complained since. And this is with them knowing how to detect it.

Simply play the Carriage sequence from early chapter of Gladiator when the Prince and his sister are arriving to Germania. That is RBE hell, due to the flikering lights that dance around in the background.

Or they were too polite to mention it to you.



Uh, yeah. right. :rolleyes:


Funny now that you mention it I should have noticed that behavior since I did notice how they were too polite to mention the color misconvergence, screen door, vertical banding, and yellowing panels on my LCD PJ....

Uh, yeah. right. :rolleyes:


Funny now that you mention it I should have noticed that behavior since I did notice how they were too polite to mention the color misconvergence, screen door, vertical banding, and yellowing panels on my LCD PJ....

Jeepers, what kind of crappy LCD projector did you have? I've had my LCD projector for 5 years and see NONE of the problems you mention. Maybe you should take another look at a good 1080p LCD projector hooked up to a blu-ray source. They are as good as DLP with none of the RBE and spinning wheel issues. Much easier on the eye and brain.

Jeepers, what kind of crappy LCD projector did you have? I've had my LCD projector for 5 years and see NONE of the problems you mention. Maybe you should take another look at a good 1080p LCD projector hooked up to a blu-ray source. They are as good as DLP with none of the RBE and spinning wheel issues. Much easier on the eye and brain.

Agreed 100%, I've had both dlp and lcd and veiwed many of them and Lcd Is superior in pretty much every way IMO, especially in this day and age, look at what most of the companies are offering, LCD is definetly getting praised by the public and profesional reviews. LCD has come along ways in the last several years.

Jeepers, what kind of crappy LCD projector did you have? I've had my LCD projector for 5 years and see NONE of the problems you mention. Maybe you should take another look at a good 1080p LCD projector hooked up to a blu-ray source. They are as good as DLP with none of the RBE and spinning wheel issues. Much easier on the eye and brain.

No kidding eh? I mean, there's DLP cheerleading, and then there's DLP cheerleading! ROFL.

Jeepers, what kind of crappy LCD projector did you have? I've had my LCD projector for 5 years and see NONE of the problems you mention. Maybe you should take another look at a good 1080p LCD projector hooked up to a blu-ray source. They are as good as DLP with none of the RBE and spinning wheel issues. Much easier on the eye and brain.

Troll

Actually, I am stuck in between.

I think from my experience that DLP projectors (Samsung 500AK and Mits. HC2000) cause eye strain and mild headache (or light nausea) even though I do not see rainbows.

With LCD projectors (Mits. HC5500), though, I had problems of repetitively returning dust blobs, which drove me nuts.

Even though I am currenting using Sony HW10 (SXRD), I want to have broader option..... I miss "pop" 3D colors of DLP projectors and deep blacks (on/off contrast) of LCD projectors.

I find the Epson Ultra Black models to offer good pop. They are IMO, the closest DLP looking LCD.

This thread was started by someone asking about what might be the result if by chance the OP experienced rbe. While most posters have been helpful, a few, as always, have popped in and slammed the technology they don't prefer while conveniently ignoring the faults they ignore in their own. Masters of hyperbole and ignorance, they provided a skew in their posts that needed to be corrected and balanced. While both technologies work well, there are drawbacks for some viewers from either.

Just ask any CRT PJ owner.

This forum is chock full of posts about all the possible drawbacks of both technologies and the people who are even now suffering from them, even in the newest models. Just because YOURS does not supposedly demonstrate a problem does not mean it doesn't exist.

You like your PJ? Good for you. Go enjoy it and try to restrain yourself from being unhelpful by indulging in misleading and useless hyperbole designed more to make you feel more confident in your own decision than in trying to help someone else in making their decision.

This thread was started by someone asking about what might be the result if by chance the OP experienced rbe. While most posters have been helpful, a few, as always, have popped in and slammed the technology they don't prefer while conveniently ignoring the faults they ignore in their own. Masters of hyperbole and ignorance, they provided a skew in their posts that needed to be corrected and balanced. While both technologies work well, there are drawbacks for some viewers from either.

Just ask any CRT PJ owner.

This forum is chock full of posts about all the possible drawbacks of both technologies and the people who are even now suffering from them, even in the newest models. Just because YOURS does not supposedly demonstrate a problem does not mean it doesn't exist.

You like your PJ? Good for you. Go enjoy it and try to restrain yourself from being unhelpful by indulging in misleading and useless hyperbole designed more to make you feel more confident in your own decision than in trying to help someone else in making their decision.


But somehow, someway, posts like this:

Troll...

are helpful? Wait..what?:rolleyes:

But somehow, someway, posts like this:

are helpful? Wait..what?:rolleyes:

Yes, that's an identifier that helps people know who to put on their ignore list so the forums are a lot more informative and the clutter of useless is removed from your screen.

Quite helpful for those who might otherwise waste time reading that person's comments.

Did that clear things up for you and help in any way?

Yes, that's an identifier that helps people know who to put on their ignore list so the forums are a lot more informative and the clutter of useless is removed from your screen.

Quite helpful for those who might otherwise waste time reading that person's comments.

Did that clear things up for you and help in any way?

So you are the decider of what is ,and what is not, relevant opinion in this forum?
As I recall, you really slammed LCD technology several posts back when another poster offered his negative experience with DLP. When I jumped in and registered my own ACTUAL experience with LCD, and my own reasons for not using DLP, you resorted to a childish and insulting post by calling me a Troll. I consider my experience and opinion every bit as good as yours. So please quit the personal attacks, which incidentally are against the rules of this forum.

So you are the decider of what is ,and what is not, relevant opinion in this forum?
As I recall, you really slammed LCD technology several posts back when another poster offered his negative experience with DLP. When I jumped in and registered my own ACTUAL experience with LCD, and my own reasons for not using DLP, you resorted to a childish and insulting post by calling me a Troll. I consider my experience and opinion every bit as good as yours. So please quit the personal attacks, which incidentally are against the rules of this forum.

+1...nuff said.

+1...nuff said.

I did not slam any technologies. I couched my response in similar terms to the way DLP was being treated for it's rare but known deficiencies. Do not pretend to engage in one-sided and inaccurate hyperbole and not expect to see others correct those kinds of statements.

I did not call a viable and excellent technology obsolete since the early 1900's, and, I also didn't repeat that narrow-minded opinion AGAIN with an even earlier date after it was already opined by a one-sided post that would obviously not help the OP make an INFORMED decision.

No, I am not the decider, however I do from time to time provide helpful information, helpful alternative opinions, and sometimes a helpful label for those who would like to try to find information and not drivel.

I am apparrently susceptible to RBE on the new Optoma HD66. I thought it was somewhat mythical as well until I saw it myself and it is annoying the poop out of me.

I like my HD66, but it is not something that I can live with. I may go with Epson 705HD. I had a home 20 some years ago, and I liked it, but the dustblobs used to kill me.

I also really like the black levels with DLP. I have just replaced an Acer PH530 with a 7 segment color wheel which gave me ZERO problems, but I think the combination of going from 1000 lumens to 2500 lumens and from a 7 segment to a 5 segment color wheel did it for my eyes.

Are there any ways to reduce the RBE?

I don't really see it much with the light on, but it is terrible at night with the lights off and high contrast scenes. Anytime a high light source such as a headlight or something comes across a dark scene it sets me off. The credits kill me too.

I don't think it is something that I can get used to, and don't want to take a chance or someone else getting terribly affected. I think I will always notice it more now. It is kinda like when there is a scratch on your car. You may not notice it at first, but after you do, it is all you see because you know it is there.

When I get home tonight, I was thinking that perhaps I have the colors too high. I can't dim the projector anymore using the brightness or contrast. I have already gotten an RMA number for my HD66 from JR, but I am hoping to give this one last try tonight before giving up.

Any other suggestions. I am shooting on a gray custom built 96" fixed screen and sit 9-10' away.

The HD66 is a strange bird. You can send 60hz 720p out to the projector, but if you go to its native 120hz, it forces 3D on which washes out everything and turns all the blacks into medium greys. It is less noticeable in this mode obviously, but it kinda mutes the biggest advantage of a DLP in my opinion I can't imagine the refresh rate would really play a factor anyway.

In case anyone is wondering, I have an HTPC. The RBE on my mouse kinda looks like when you have the pointer ghosting turned on except the "ghosts" are red green and blue.

I am apparrently susceptible to RBE on the new Optoma HD66. I thought it was somewhat mythical as well until I saw it myself and it is annoying the poop out of me.

Are there any ways to reduce the RBE?



In another thread someone had mentioned that mounting a Neutral Density filter, (like you would use for photography) in front of the lens can help minimize RBE. This is something that he tried to punch up the contrast on his cheap LCD projector, but tried it with a DLP PJ and surprise, it had an immediate effect. Now of course, I'm passing this along not ever having tried it myself, but it's a cheap experiment that just might work! :cool: